Reframing Your Reality: Part 1

This is Hidden Brain, I'm Shaka Vedanta. In the annals of TV comedy, there have been many figures with a hour of cynical outlook. But there's one that stands out for her relentlessly pessimistic mindset. Hi, I'm Daddy.

Rachel Draghes unforgettable character from Saturday Night Live. You guys, I love wedding. This is one of the best ever. We should look.

The only thing higher than gas prices in this country are divorce rates. Debbie Downers shows up at parties, weddings, and holiday gatherings. Always ready to remind people that life is terrible. All right, what's going on?

Thank you guys. Good for me. With all the refined sugars we're eating, America's experiencing a virtual epidemic of juvenile diabetes. Hi.

We all know Debbie Downers is real life. People who can't help but accentuate the negative, who focus on the faults and flaws of others, who always, always see the glass as half empty. A lot of people come up to me and they're like, oh my gosh, that is my sister, that's my mother. Everyone has this Debbie Downers.

I think that's why it hits the heart. This week on Hidden Brain, the surprising psychology of mindsets, why they matter and how they master. What we can do with our minds, what we can do with our intention and our energy is incredible and it's a power that we often fail to realize it's even there. A quick note that we're doing something that's unusual today.

This episode is part one of our story. There's going to be a second part. We'll feature that story in our next episode. It's best to listen to these episodes in order.

When most of us think about our problems and challenges, we locate them in barriers and conflicts we experience in the outside world. Your job application gets turned down, your partner wakes up with you. You fall sick and find a car to get out of bed. At Stanford University, psychologists, Aliah Crown has spent a long time thinking about how we perceive the obstacles we confront and how we respond to them.

Aliah Crown, welcome to Hidden Brain. Thank you. It's great to be here. Aliah understand that you were a very serious amateur athlete as a child and a young person from age 14.

You were a competitive gymnast in college. You played division one. I saw you later became an internationally ranked triathlete. I'm going to take you back to your time in college when you are attending with the exertions of your sport.

Can you give me a sense of your hockey training regimen? Yeah, being a division one athlete is no joke. It's a full-time job in the midst of already a full-time job of going to college. We trained five days a week.

We had two games on the weekend. Practices were two hours followed by strength training after that. It was quite a grind. And did you feel as a result of doing all the exercise that you were doing, all that you could do to get a shape?

Not at all. What the interesting thing is we have a two hour practice, then go to the gym. And then just because I didn't feel like it was quite enough, I would get on the treadmill or the elliptical and get a little extra cardio. One day, she was taking a run along the child's river, a set of intrusive thoughts and her mind.

She was letting people down. She was letting herself down. I can't all my teammates can attest to this. They're like, there's a few of us who had this sort of feeling of scarcity.

We just weren't doing quite enough and we needed to do more. And it was just this persistent feeling of, this is not enough. I'm not doing enough. And I remember I never forget it running on the Charles that day when I had this moment of feeling like, is it ever enough?

Or whatever, do enough. Hmm. And what about when it came to diet? Part of what you have to do when you're an athlete of course is all the physical conditioning.

But presumably, you were also paying a great attention to what and how much you ate. Yeah, diet is a huge deal for athletes. And it's tricky. Different sports have different issues.

You know, you're wanting to, as an athlete player, you want to gain muscle, but still stay lean so that you're fast and quick on the ice. These are in some ways, you know, competing demands. And same with the exercise just constantly feeling like I wasn't eating right. I was eating too much or eating not the right foods.

I was too heavy or not strong enough. Or, you know, mostly for me, I'm a naturally muscular person. But I always had this feeling like I was gaining weight that I shouldn't have. So there was this constant conflict, constant tension feeling like I should be eating less.

Earlier, it was surrounded by smart and driven people. I asked her if the voices of criticism should constantly hurt, will come from the outside or the inside. This was also generated. I kind of had this uncertainty or feeling like I wanted to be in the best shape possible, but really not feeling like I was ever there.

Every day it was a struggle. And did you worry about what others were thinking about you, your advisor, your coaches, your fellow players? Oh, constantly. You know, as an athlete, you're worried that the professors don't think you're as smart or, you know, and as an athlete, you worry that, you know, are you going to live up to playing at the same level as the other teammates that you have, play with the number of Olympians and there was a constant feeling of the accuracy compared to them.

Earlier, it was interested in psychology. But didn't have a good way of understanding how long feeling of scarcity. That nothing she did, that's enough. A few years later, now in graduate school, earlier was driving herself as hard as ever.

She wasn't just stressed. The fact that she was stressed had itself become a form of stress. She asked herself, what does it mean that I find this so hard? It was grad school for me when the real kind of self-doubt started seeping in as an academic.

I think as an undergrad at Harvard, I was mostly just excited to be there to learn and to grow and to take interest in classes. And I was fortunate enough to get into young as a PhD student. And that's when I really started to get stressed. You know, I wanted to have a successful dissertation.

I wanted to do research that made a difference. And I wasn't sure if I was doing that. You know, I wasn't sure if I was learning the right things. If I had the right ideas, if I was working hard enough, I knew enough statistics.

If I was reading the right papers, there was sort of this constant feeling of of self-doubt. And that carried with it a lot of stress, a lot of feeling like I was in this constant state of threat or challenge. And wanting to succeed, caring about it so much, but not really feeling like I was in flow, if you will. I wasn't in that state of just feeling confident in myself.

But then one night, I was walking late. The world presented earlier with a little gift, a brief moment of insight. And I'll never forget it. I was, this was about my third year in graduate school.

And I had my meetings with my advisor at Peter Salve, 8 a.m. on Friday mornings. And 8 a.m. is still early when you're a grad student.

But I always remember so frantically, Thursday is trying to finish the things that I said I was going to do, come to him with, you know, a new IDR and new breakthroughs. And this one particular night I was working on coming up with the idea that I was going to pursue for my dissertation. So there was a lot of stress about that. You know, do I have a worthy idea?

And I was in the lab late at night. Now they put the grad students at, you know, at least at that time in the basement of the psychology department. That's why they kept the computers with the statistical software. And I was in there late at night, stressed, anxious, feeling self-doubt, frantically trying to run some analyses, come up with some ideas, you know, coming up with something that I could present to my advisor.

That's morning. Outside of the close doors of the lab, earlier, heard footsteps. Yeah, it was late at night. So I didn't think anyone would really be there.

But I heard footsteps coming down the door and even hear anything in that basement. Because it's concrete and, you know, I think this light is moving, we feel a crack or a creek. And, you know, I forgot from my coz here. Who am I going to have to talk to?

I don't have any time to talk. I'm not busy. And the door creaked open and in looked at Brett Logan. Now Brett was the IT person at Yale still is.

He's a great guy and, you know, we were friends, but I didn't have any time to talk to Brett at this particular point in time. So I looked up at him kind of with this frazzled stress state. And he must have picked up on him because all he said in response to me was, it's just a cold dark night on the side of Everest. And then shut the door.

A cold dark night on the side of Everest. What do you think he was trying to stay at you? You know, at the time, I didn't think twice about it. I was just like, okay, Brett went back to my stressing and struggling.

But it occurred to me about two weeks later. I remember waking up in the middle of the night and thinking and realizing what he meant. So if you were climbing Everest, you could imagine that there'd be some nights that were cold, that were dark, perhaps you'd be tired or strained. But what did you expect?

Did you really expect that climbing Everest would be a walk in the park? Would climbing Everest be such a great feat if it was just a walk in the park? No. So what did I expect?

Did I expect that getting a PhD, making a contribution to the field of psychology was going to be easy? No. Would it be that great of a feat if it were just a walk in the park? No.

So I think what Brett meant there, what it meant to me was it really gave me a profound shift in perspective, a profound shift in mindset going from this place of like, this stress and struggle is a sign that I'm not worthy. That's something's wrong. To, oh, this stress is struggled this cold dark night. This is part of the process.

This is it. Like this is what makes you great. What makes you succeed? So in some ways, what you were hearing was that yes, it's difficult, but it's difficult for a reason.

And once you focus on the reason, then somebody puts the difficulty into some perspective. 100%. You know, we get messages from everywhere, from public health, from culture, from books, telling us that stress is a bad thing, that it's going to make a sick, it's going to hurt our productivity, and therefore we should avoid it or kind of counteract it. But if you think about the times in your life that you grew the most as a person, or you performed as an exceptionally high level, as an athlete or as a professional or as an individual, and you went back to those times and you asked yourself, did those times involve any stress?

The answer invariably is yes. Part and parcel of the things that matter to us is stress is defined as the experience or anticipation of adversity in one's goal-related efforts. That last part is critical. The goal-related efforts, so that means as we don't get stressed about things we don't care about.

So if I told you that Johnny was failing school or Johnny wasn't going to pass his PhD qualification exams, that wouldn't stress you out unless you were Johnny. Or you cared about Johnny. You cared about the Johnny's of the world passing school, right? So you start to realize that stress and our values, our cares, our goals are two sides of the same coin.

You start to get a new approach, you know, a new mindset, about the nature of stress. What's interesting, of course, is that when you have this insight about the other comment and what the comment might mean, you know, cold, dark, night on the side of Everest. It didn't change your circumstances. You were still in grad school, you were still trying to find a decision topic, you were still juggling all the things that you were juggling, and yet it didn't make a difference.

It made a profound difference. It was game-changing and you're exactly right. Nothing else changed. It's not like I had a eureka moment in some analyses or that advanced a year in my PhD.

I was the same person in the same circumstance doing the same thing with the same meetings and tasks ahead of me. The only thing that changed was my mindset, was my view of stress of struggle in this process of getting a PhD. For lots of first novelists and spiritual counselors have wrestled with the question for centuries. The problems we face in our lives are obviously shaped by our experiences in the world.

But our perceptions of those problems are also our perceptions. They are shaped by what happens inside our own minds. When we come back, what monocyological science is finding about the role that our own minds play in our construction of problems and their solutions. You're listening to Hidden Brain, I'm Shankar Vedanta.

This is Hidden Brain, I'm Shankar Vedanta. How much of our minds shape the way we experience the world? And how much does the way we think shape our ability to respond to challenges and setbacks? Earlier, Chrome is a psychologist at Central University.

She studies how we interpret and respond to everyday challenges. A research suggests that when we naturally focus on what appear to be the objective facts of our daily dilemmas and setbacks, these challenges are often shaped in consequential ways by our own minds. Earlier, I wanted to take you back one more time to a defining moment in your athletic career. We're now going back even earlier into your childhood, with 10 years old, and getting ready for an important gymnastics meet that was going to happen in three days.

Can you tell me what your preparations involved and what happened to the gym? Yeah, so I was a very serious gymnast growing up. We trained four hours a day, four days a week with meets on the weekend. And I loved it.

I was all in gymnastics. I cared about it so much. We had a great group of us doing it. You know, I would come home and get on the beam to do more practices.

I just loved it and wanted to excel at the highest level. And I had a chance to do this. I had a chance to compete in the regionals to have a shot at making it to nationals. And I was in the gym training before the meet.

And I did a vault. And on the vault, I hit my ankles together so hard, landed wrong. And I was living and I was hurt. And I thought, okay, it must not have been that big of a deal.

I probably find I tried to walk around and I tried to walk it off. But I couldn't walk it off. I had to stop ice. And the pain was shocking.

It was both physical and also emotional because I had this immediate sinking feeling of I'm not going to be able to compete. How bad was it? It sounds like you hit your ankles together. So the bony part of the foot must have been quite painful.

Yeah, that bone in the middle of your ankle. It sticks out. Those two things hit together. I had to stop that day.

I went home. I was distraught. But I was determined. So I had that moment of, oh God, what happened.

And then the next feeling was I must do this. I must compete. So we did everything we could to get it ready. I was icing and wrapping it and elevating it and took care of it as much as I could the next few days.

Earlier father told her that he didn't have to do with her mind. Not just her body. My father was a martial artist and his master of the art of IKIDO and had done a lot of visualization and energy work. And so I worked with him on my mind at the time.

I worked with sending energy to my ankle and I worked with visualizing my routine. I knew I couldn't train physically. But I could train in my mind. And the wonderful thing about gymnastics is your routines are preset.

So you know exactly what you're going to do and what you should do. And that makes it very easy to visualize. So I sent those few days just a visualizing my routine doing nothing physically, but doing everything mentally. Did you get to the original competition that weekend?

I did. I went there and not only did I get there. I competed on that foot and I qualified for the national championship. Wow.

So a couple of days later, earlier, you received some news about your ankle. Tell me the news that you received. A few days later, it was still bothering me. The visualization had helped my performance, but I didn't heal the pain completely.

I felt no pain during my performances on floor of all being and bars. But after, you know, it wasn't like the ankle magically was better. So we went to the hospital and got an x-ray and I found out that the ankle was very clearly broken. You had competed on a broken ankle and you qualified?

That's correct. I mean, that almost seems impossible. It does, right? You know, we think that the world is physical.

We think that our bodies are physical and solely physical. And if you have a broken ankle, that should be, you know, career ending or at least competition ending. And what you started when I learned that very clearly was that the physical is only a portion. It's a very real portion.

And it shouldn't be totally over written or discarded. But it still is only a portion. And what we can do with our minds, what we can do with our intention and our energy, is incredible. And it's a power that we often fail to realize is even there.

And certainly are not fully tapping into it in the ways that I think we can. And the ways that I was able to do that day. Actually became a psychologist. You became a researcher in the psychology of mindsets.

And you've used that term a couple of times in our conversation already. Can you explain to us what mindsets are? Yeah. We view mindsets's core assumptions that we make about the nature of ourselves or things in the world.

They're beliefs. Really. They're a type of belief. But it's a very powerful type of belief.

Right? So we have mindsets about our own abilities or our intelligence. But we also have mindsets about other things. Mindets about the nature of stress.

Mindets about the capabilities or limitations of our own bodies. Mindets about the enoughness of the foods that we're eating or the exercise we're doing. They're perspectives. Their lenses are frameworks.

They're just assumptions about the meaning or the nature of those things. So one of the things that you discovered as you started engaging in this research is that it's not just a case that many of us don't understand the power of mindsets. Many of us don't realize that we have mindsets. I think that is perhaps the most profound realization of all.

Right? It's exciting. And we can talk about all the ramifications of mindsets, how they change our attention, our affect, our physiology, and our behavior. But to go back a step before that is to realize that we have mindsets.

So often we think that our beliefs, our experiences, are a direct reflection of the world as it objectively is. And what you come to realize is that is just not the case. Our perceptions, our beliefs, our experiences are always an interpretation. They're always filtered through the lenses, the mindsets that we have.

I'd like to talk about some of the research and the ways in which mindsets seem to influence us. One of the things they seem to do is they seem to shape our expectations. Our predictions about what will happen. And to some extent, I think that's true of what happened with you on that gymnastics floor that day at the regional competition.

Your expectations, your predictions about what you're going to do, and adopting what you actually did. And talk about this idea that one powerful fact that mindsets have is that they shape our expectations of the world. Yeah, so you can imagine if I had gone to the doctors that day and they said, you're ankle is broken, you can't compete. That would be one mindset.

That feeling of this ankle is broken, you will not be able to compete, you will feel pain, you will be not functioning. That's the expectation. I was somehow able to shift into a mindset or belief that I was okay, that I could still perform in the midst of this issue, whatever it was going on in my foot. And that led to the expectation that I was going to be just fine, but I was going to get up there and perform to my high stability.

Can you explain this idea that's increasingly common among neuroscientists and cognitive scientists that the brain operates a sort of prediction machine, yeah, the whole goal of the brain is to try to figure out what's going to happen next, so that it can prepare and prioritize what the body's doing now in preparation for that moment. So again, it's not just responding in a passive or reactive way. We're proactively thinking about, okay, are you going to be able to do this? How is this milkshake or meal going to make you feel?

Are you getting enough exercise? The brain is calculating and making estimates on this predictions. And that's sending signals back to the body to say, oh, well, if I'm not getting enough food, I need to maybe slow my metabolism down, I boost up the hunger signal, so I seek out food. If it's, oh, I think I've heard, I need to send information signals throughout my body, I need to send pain signals throughout the body, so I sit and I avoid activity.

So our brain is constantly trying to predict what's going to happen so that it can regulate our bodies and prepare it for what it thinks is going to occur. And of course, I still shape what the brain pays attention to. If you think I'm definitely going to compete in the regionals and here's what I need to do, your attention is going to be, how do I execute my gymnastic routine properly as opposed to how much pain is my ideal experience? Right.

So the sheer mechanism of prediction processing is very logical. It seems very sound and it seems very objective. It's like, okay, I think this is going to happen. I'll regulate my body.

But the assumption that you made from the beginning was in some way subjective, right? I objectively had a broken ankle, but there was a variety of ways to interpret that. And so that's important. And then you start to also see this cascade of effects.

So because our brains can't process everything at one time, it goes on these simplifying systems. So it makes, it has heuristics, it makes assumptions. So if it thinks, okay, you're going to be able to perform, then your attention systems start noticing the ways in which you are going to be able to perform. So my attention shifted to, oh, you know, I feel pretty good.

Right. Oh, I can actually walk on this foot. Right. You start noticing the things that confirm the prediction that you had in the first place.

It's called confirmation bias. And it tends to create the self-fulfilling loop because then you're getting data that feeds back to that belief or prediction. So in some ways, I think what you're saying is that they might be an object of reality out of the world. But as it comes to our minds, we have different choices in some ways of how we process that object of reality.

So we can perceive the ankle as broken. We can perceive the ankle as not broken. And perhaps a better question to ask is not so much which version of our mindset best reflects reality as much as which version of our mindset is what it helps us most of the long run. That's exactly right.

And you realize, you know, if you think about it, and you actually go on set further, it was like, it was amazing that I could do that. Should I have continued doing that? Should I have continued believing that it was fine? That might have led to some long-term consequences.

And so, you know, it's not that one mindset is right or wrong. True or false, right? It really is inherently subjective. But the key is that the mindsets that you have have in effect the influence, what you expect, they influence what you pay attention to, the influence of physiology and they influence what we actually do.

And therefore they create the reality that's implied. Now that process could be useful or not useful. It could be adaptive or it could be maladaptive depending on the situation and the circumstance that you're in. It may be helpful to think of mindsets as a frame that people around reality.

Different frames highlight different aspects of the picture. If only I had taken an extra before the competition, it may have prompted her to think of of her ankle injury differently. The broken ankle may have brought to mind all the ways in which she was in pain or had limited motion. Instead, the frame she did put around her injury caused her to focus on what she could do, rather than what she couldn't do.

It's important to want to lie that Aliyah is not saying that her frame wasn't right to her. Ignoring the broken ankle could have led to long-term damage. A point isn't that what she did in the competition was correct. It's a much larger psychological point.

What we call reality is usually a mix of what is objectively happening in the world and how we think about it. When you come back, the surprising power of changing the frame. You're listening to hidden brain, I'm chunk of it under. This is hidden brain, I'm chunk of it under.

It's called Hell. It's one of the most physically non-essential programs in the world. It's what you have to go through if you want to become a US Navy SEAL. It's an industry of push-ups, perhaps, bigger screening agent.

Psychologists have here ground the science and this was a perfect setting to better understand the science of mindsets. We wanted to look at perhaps one of the most highly performing groups of people in the world, and that is US Navy SEALs. So these are people who go into the Navy to become the best of the best, and they're put through a grueling training in order to become a SEAL. So the first phase of underwater demolition SEALs training are buds.

Candidates undergo seven weeks of intense physical and mental training. And a lot of people are familiar with the most grueling part of this training, which is known as Hell Week. And this is when candidates complete tasks and drills almost non-stop, you know, not sleeping for five and a half days of training. So what we were interested in is looking at how these candidates mindsets might influence whether or not they make it through that demolition training.

And we had been studying stress mindset early on. We had developed a measure to characterize people's mindset about stress. Essentially, do you believe that stress is debilitating, that it's going to harm your performance and productivity and well-being? Or do you believe that stress can be enhancing, can improve your performance and boost your health and well-being?

We showed that this mindset rests on a continuum. And what was interesting with these SEALs, so we measured them, these were all candidates. They hadn't gone through training yet. First of all, what we found was that these candidates had stresses enhancing mindset.

On average, they were over the midpoint of the scale. And that was the only group that we had ever measured that had every other sample or population that we had looked at. Employees in large finance firms or tech firms or undergraduates in America, at least all tended to have the mindset that stress was debilitating. And these were different type of people.

These were different beasts, right? They had an extent, these were people who chose to go into Navy SEAL training, they must have some sort of inclination. I just think that if you're going to quit on this, I'll also know how you can do our analysis. Well, what we found in the study, and this was a study I did with former grass student Eric Smith, we found that their mindsets at the beginning predicted whether or not they would make it through.

So it's notoriously hard, 70 to 20 percent of candidates who start the training completed, only 70 to 20 percent completed. And what we found was that this one measured as measure of their mindsets about stress predicted whether or not they would succeed. So those who had even more stresses enhancing mindset were more likely to succeed. They also showed better performance measures and things like the obstacle course test and also higher ratings from their peers.

I feel like this is connected with some of the work you've done, looking at students in high school and finding the same connection that the people who think that stress is debilitating sometimes you worse, that people who have a more positive attitude about stress. Yeah, what we see typically in students and adolescents is that the experience of stress leads to a loss of self-control. So it makes people feel like they're not in control, and that kind of spirals down and has all sort of negative effects on people's lives. And what we've found is that stress mindset severance this link.

So adolescent to believe that stress can be enhancing. Actually, don't have that negative impact on self-control of anything. It might go the opposite direction. So experience stress and you think, okay, this is a cold dark night.

This is part of what's like to grow up. I can engage more. I can become empowered. I can work through this.

I can be resilient. So that's what we've seen there. I understand it can even test to the effect of explicitly teaching people that stress can enhance performance. What was the outcome of this instruction for people who are negotiating for a salary increase?

Yeah, not study. It was actually a prasles of arousal. So they were experiencing arousal or kind of nervous energy before the salary negotiation. And what we did was give them a simple message that said, hey, you know, this experience of nervousness, of nervous arousal before negotiation is actually a good sign that can help you perform well.

And that simple message led to improved outcomes on the negotiation. This is taken also from work by Jameson and when he ended as another to have looked at this appraisal of arousal manipulation. And you've looked at other kinds of workplaces as well, right? Where you look at what's the effect of teaching people that stress can be enhancing the effect of those mindset and the performance.

Yeah, we've created very seemingly simple videos, films that showcase anecdotes and research and examples, all true, presenting this case, you know, that stress can have enhancing effects on our lives and our well-being. And what we've shown is just watching these short videos there, three minutes in some cases, not only leads to a change in mindset about stress, but confers benefits in terms of greater work performance, fewer negative health symptoms, and other positive outcomes. Contrast this research with the way we usually talk about stress. For decades now, we have been talking about stress as a poison to be avoided.

In workplaces, visit people walking around saying, I'm so stressed, I need a vacation. Few of us talk to us, what effect these worries about stress might have an already. All of these warnings and messages are well-intentioned. It makes sense, right?

It's like, oh, we find out that stress could have an negative impact. We should tell everybody about that, right? Like, let's warn them. But when you start to become aware of the role of mindsets, you realize that what we're unintentionally doing and sending those messages out is creating mindsets that might be unhelpful and perhaps even counterproductive in our goals.

So when you learn that stress is going to kill you, what does that do when you're stressed? It makes you more stressed, right? Not only do you have to deal with the stress of this pandemic and you're, you know, take your clothes in for a time, but now you have to stress about the stress. And so, you know, and so when you recognize that that mindset matters, you can kind of reverse engineer and think back to, well, what would be a useful mindset here?

What mindset about stress would be helpful? Now, if we could easily reduce stressors in our life, it might be the warning, right? But that's just not the case. We do not often have the ability and or luxury to reduce this amount of stress we're experiencing.

And as we've discussed, if you do remove all stress, you also remove all cares. You remove those values, you remove the things that matter you. Being a parent is stressful. So, seeding in a career is stressful.

Being an athlete of any kind of stressful, right? Life is stressful and that's okay. Right? So when we start to realize that, then you say, what mindset would be useful here?

And that's how we've landed on this mindset that stress can be enhancing along with Brett Logan's sage advice. I want to take a few beats here and analyze on important caveats. It's one thing to say mindsets are powerful. It's more to pay attention to our mindsets and to ask if they are helping us or hurting us.

But it's not smart to believe our mindsets can be the solution to every problem. Surely, by us, if we need to guard against well-intentioned people who tell us that stress is always bad, we also need to be cautious. If people tell us that stress is always good. Yeah, when we do this research, often the first goal is to just point out that your mindset is playing a role.

But what often happens is people take that and then they run with it, right? And then they assume it's sort of all or nothing. Well, stress is enhancing. We should just lay it on our employees, right?

And that is the last thing that I would want people to take away from this. What I want people to realize is that the total effect of anything is a combined product of what you're actually doing and what you think about what you do. So, mindsets influence our lives, but they are just a piece of the puzzle. And it's just a piece of the puzzle that I think we haven't played enough attention to.

And the other thing I would say is that don't jump to conclusions about what the right mindset is. What is right or what is adaptive depends on the circumstance. So there might be a breaking point in which having a stress is enhancing mindset is helpful, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't reduce unnecessary stressors. It also, I think this is really important.

The work on mindsets, it's really empowering to the individual. And that's great. But we also want to make sure that people don't feel like it's all up to them to change their realities because you just change your mindset and everything will be fine. Your mindset will help.

But the reality matters too. And also you have mindsets because of the reality that we live in. Why do we have the mindsets that stress is debilitating? Because we live in culture where these messages are everywhere, right?

So be empowered by this. But also recognize that it's not all you that there are forces shaping your mindset. So we need to be aware of those two. And then we need to change systems and structures in our society to hopefully generate better cultural mindsets.

I often found that it's one thing to have insights about how our minds work and another thing to put those insights into practice in our own lives. And that's true not just for ordinary mortals like me, but even researchers like you who have made discoveries about these insights. Sometimes you are giving an important speech and you are a little nervous. I want to play you a little clip of yourself talking at the 10th conference.

The placebo set is not about the folk hill and the sugar pill and the fake procedure. What the placebo set really is is a powerful robust and consistent demonstration of your ability of our mindsets in this case, the expectation to heal, to recruit healing properties in the body. So you can heal your voice shaking in that clip. And the reason I played is not to show that you were nervous during the talk.

But because during the talk you realize that you were stressed, you realized that you were nervous. And you employed some of the techniques and insights that you had learned about mindsets to change what you did the rest of the talk. Tell me what you did. Yeah, and this was a big talk.

This was an opportunity to get out some of the research I had done and share it with the whole world on the internet. And as I started speaking, my nerves were conveyed in as you showed there, the quivering of my voice. And I could notice myself doing that. And it would have been real easy to just say, oh my God, this is a disaster.

I need to run off the stage. But what I did mentally was just remind myself that I was here for a reason, that I had an important message to say. And that, of course, I was nervous. This mattered.

It mattered to me. And I felt like it mattered. It could matter to others. And so that feeling of this is worth it, this matters.

Catch me going to the end. It's always I think what I hear saying is that when you would reinterpret stress, not as evidence of your inadequacy, but as evidence of how much you care about something, it can transform the way you think about it. That's exactly right. It was so important.

And if I'm being honest, I got off the stage. I knew I did have a message out. But I was totally distraught because I felt like I was not at my peak. I did it.

I said what I wanted to say, but it was obviously nervous. Everybody's going to know, nobody's going to watch this. And I was so mad at myself for that. And that anger also came from a place of like, I cared.

I wanted this to be great. And fortunately, I gave myself some, some slack. And who knows, who knows what happened with that next talk, where I'd been perfect throughout all. But I do think there's something powerful in people seeing the human behind the work.

That was me. Right? This is me now. This is the work we've done.

This is what we've learned so far. It's been useful, but it's just the beginning. I'm learning. We're all learning.

And that's what I'm really looking forward to doing in the next 20, 30, 40 years of my career. It's just to keep learning on an epidemic level, but also learning and growing on a personal level. Mindset can change the way we approach a difficult conversation at work or physically demanding assignment. Changing your mindset can change the way we think about stress and setbacks.

But all of the ideas we have discussed today, explore the effects of mindsets on our attitudes, motivation, and perception. They look at how mindsets affect the mind. In part two of our story, we will look at something even stranger. Is it possible that our mindsets don't just change our minds, but that they can change our physical bodies?

What we found was that simply informing them that their work was good exercise, led to changes in their health. Hidden brain is produced by Hidden Brain Media, our audio production team includes Bridget McCarthy, Annie Murphy-Paul, Kristen Wong, Laura Corell, Ryan Katz, Audem Barrens, and Andrew Chappic. Cara Boyle is our executive producer. I'm Hidden Brain's executive editor.

Our unsung hero this week is Devon Trainor, a manager with our Ad Sales and Distribution Partner Stitcher. Not long ago, we started receiving messages from listeners reporting that were having problems accessing our show on Google Podcasts. Devon's brand new action, working with Stafford Google, until the problem was fixed. There was lots of troubleshooting over several days, but we knew Devon wouldn't stop working on it until there was a solution.

Thank you, Devon. If you'd like to set this out and would like us to produce more shows like this, please consider supporting our work. Go to support.kinbrain.org. Again, if you would like to help support the show you love, go to support.kinbrain.org.

I'm Shaka Vinantam. See you soon.