Rethinking AI and Data: Incentives, Trust, and the Future of the Web with Ruben Verborgh

In this Ship Happens episode, host Per Krogslund interviews Ruben Verborgh, a computer science professor at Ghent University and consultant about building a more responsible digital ecosystem where incentives align with ethics rather than exploitation. Ruben argues that today’s AI ecosystem is fundamentally unstable: companies often lack control over the models they deploy, sustainable business models remain unclear, and the industry continues relying on advertising-driven incentives that reward data extraction over trust. Instead of focusing purely on “ethical AI” messaging, Ruben says the real challenge is designing better economic systems and incentives. The conversation explores an alternative future for AI and personal data—one where raw user data stays under individual control and algorithms move to the data instead of endlessly collecting and centralizing it. Ruben explains how decentralized web standards like Solid aim to separate identity and storage from applications, giving users more portability, ownership, and freedom online. Per and Ruben also discuss mistrust in AI agents, why smaller task-specific models may ultimately be safer and more controllable than giant general-purpose systems, and why society must work alongside younger generations to shape technology rather than attempting to ban it outright. Chapters (00:00) Welcome and Guest Intro (00:32) Mission for Better Data (01:24) Incentives and AI Ethics (02:54) Packaging AI Like Utilities (05:14) Economic Model Will Implode (07:10) Beyond Ads and Big Data (08:36) Bringing the Algorithm to the Data (10:36) Consent Beats Tracking (11:45) The Myth of Retargeting Value (15:10) Trust and AI Agents (16:55) Guarantees and Smaller AI Models (18:03) Solid and the Decentralized Web (20:51) Why Identity Came Later (23:04) The Web as an Amplifier (26:22) Fix Incentives, Not Algorithms (27:53) There Is No “Responsible Tech,” Only Systems (29:06) Policy Shifts Beyond Finger Wagging (32:04) Believing in the Next Generation (33:11) Wrap Up and Outro   About the Guest Ruben Verborgh is a computer science professor at Ghent University and a researcher focused on decentralized web technologies, linked data, and data ownership. He works with Tim Berners-Lee’s Inrupt on the Solid project, which aims to separate applications from personal data storage to give users greater control, privacy, and interoperability across the web. Resources & Links Inrupt Official Website Solid Project Ghent University Ruben Verborgh Website Per Krogslund LinkedIn Docker Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.