Ryan Coogler

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Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of Good Hang. This is a, this is a good one. We were thrilled when this person wanted to talk to us, Ryan Coogler, the incredible director, sinners, Black Panther, Creed, Fruitvale, station, just selling everything, all the good things. And we're gonna talk about something today. We're gonna talk about football.

We're gonna talk about Jurassic Park. We're gonna talk about how vampires are sexier than zombies. And we are gonna get in in a minutia of the beautiful film sinners that is up for all the awards and should win all the awards. So I love this conversation with Ryan and can't wait for you to hear it. And we always start these episodes by speaking to somebody who knows our guest, who gives me a question to ask them and speaks well behind their back.

And joining me today is Ludwig Jorenson. Ludwig is a, well, just the most preeminent composer has made music on all the films that you love and makes, you know, is a record producer and it just is so super talented. And they, he and Ryan have been working together forever. So we're gonna join Ludwig. And I'm gonna try out a little bit of my Swedish.

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Yeah, who can you put the sense, I have either do it with the sense again, who's wearing connection with Maria. Yes, my brother lives in stock soon. Okay. So nice to meet you. Thank you for doing this.

Where are we talking to you from right now? I'm in my studio in LA, Los Angeles. Excellent. And are you working on something right now? Yes, I'm a new project.

New. Can you tell us what it is or a secret? No, no, no, I'm in the world of Chris Nolan right now. So we'll just, yeah, that's taking up my time. And it's really fun.

Well, we're talking around Kugler today. We're thrilled to talk to him. I'm a huge fan and I'm really excited. And one of the things I've been learning as I've been getting to know him is how dedicated he is to the people he works with and how he has really long relationships with the people that he works with. And you two met in USC together?

Yeah, we met at USC 2008, I believe. What was your first impression of him? Do you remember meeting? Yeah, of course. I was, when I first moved to LA, I moved, I lived in Culver City.

And everyone in America told me that you need to move. You need to get a car, right? You need to have a car. But I thought all it's still Americans, they don't get the idea of walking, right? So, but I quickly understood that like the bus doesn't come, like the bus.

So I moved to USC to look close to campus. I could walk from, and I ended up, I ended up moving into like a fraternity house. It was only a bit of a grad student. And it literally felt like, I didn't know what fraternity was. At the time, it literally felt like I moved into an American pie movie.

Yeah. So one night we had a party, Ryan came over and we ended up playing pool together. And he had, and remember Ryan had these super long walks, you know, down to his, to his back. And kind of, you know, kind of muskler in a way because he had just, you know, he just come from football. He played football for sex eight for college.

So he, you know, so that, and we started talking, playing pool. And then I remember specifically talking about music. And he had a lot of knowledge about, we talked about Swedish artists. And that's kind of what we kind of started bonding over music. And then that translated into film.

And so we were just kind of college kids and it began and started just hanging out at parties and talking about music and film. Was there a moment when you decided we're gonna kind of work together forever? Like, you know, it's one thing to like each other's taste. But sometimes people work a certain way that doesn't connect with the way you like to work. How do you two like to work together and why does it work?

The first score I did was for a little feature, or the student film he had called Locks. And I played guitar on that. And he was like, it was just so funny because I remember his reaction when he first heard his, my music for his little short film. And he was like, blown away. He's like, oh my God, I can't believe someone writes music for my film.

And it's not, you know, and I was like, obviously, you know, I was kind of worried he was not gonna like it first. So when he was just blown away, I get that reaction. It was just so, it was so fun. And then every time we worked together, it was like, he had such a, it was like such a, it was so passionate about his work. And it was always so fun, right?

So, and we both are like addictive. Like we love our work, right? And when you get to combine that friendship with work. So that makes it very special. You can hang out with your buddies right while working.

Can I geek out with you for a second on three films? Fruitvale, Black Panther, and Sinners. When you think of those three films, what instrument comes up in your mind first for each? Fruitvale was guitar. Cause I knew, I was like, I knew how much, Ryan loved guitar, you know?

And I guess I never really thought about why he loves the guitar. And I never understood why he loves it until like we started working on Sinners. And it's like, I understand like, okay, well, his uncle, you know, was a great blues, he loved blues music and always played blues. And obviously in blues music, guitars that the main instrument, right? So Ryan kind of grew up listening to that music and it's always been in his bones and his mind.

And my dad is a guitar player. And blues music that changed my dad's life to become a blues guitar player. 1964, he bought his first, my dad bought his first blues album, John Lee Hooker. And that music, you know, coming from the other side of the world to Sweden, his life to become a guitar player. And that obviously made my, you know, he put a guitar in my hands when I was seven.

So it's kind of a full circle there. That's really cool. So with the conversation, I would say the guitar is the main instrument. And Black Panther, it's the talking drums. I don't really know what talking drums are.

Could you explain? Yeah, it's the first type of communication device. It's the first telephone. So in Africa, and I was specifically, I went to Senegal in West Africa. But this talking drum exists in so many different regions down in Africa, but it's basically a drum that you can play messages with, because it's very small and you can breathe and you can squeeze it to have different pitches.

So with these different pitches in these different rhythms, you can talk. It's almost like Morse code, you know, but analog on a drum. And in every village they would have a talking drum, they would relay messages to the other one. He would stand in the middle. He or she was standing in the middle and then play.

And they would, you could tell it, oh, the king has died or someone's back from being gone for a long time where, you know, everyone gets together. And so, and I met this incredible musician in Senegal, Masam Badiyo, who put together an amazing talking drum crew. And we recorded a bunch of stuff in Senegal. And I was like, one thing that I thought was interesting was like, how would you say that cello's drum tell us name on that instrument? On that.

Oh, wow, very cool. The theme. And for St. Yeah, it's guitar again and we're back to where it all started. Yeah, and Buddy Guy and who was in the film and who I want to talk to Ryan about, it's just like, amazing, like an amazing moment at the end of the film.

Thank you for talking about Ryan and I'm really excited to talk to him today. Do you have a question for me before we go that you think would be fun for me to ask? It could be big or small. It could be asking him a story to tell. It could be a private joke of your many years together or it could be something about the film or anything at all.

I mean, you could ask him, you know, because when we were doing centers, he was practicing guitar, he was playing almost every day, you know, he had a guitar in his office, he took it with him when he moved to New Orleans for production. So, you know, and I spent a little, not a lot of time, but a little time on with him just like showing him how some riffs was going in. So, you know, that's something you could check in with him. Like how is his chops coming along? Perfect, perfect.

And only because the movies over doesn't mean that he just, you know, doesn't need to keep it up. Yeah, right. The lyrics says like, you know, you just can't put it down. Like, next time I see you expect you to be, expect you to have improved. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, great.

Well, thank you so much for your time. It really means a lot that we got you and what I know is probably a busy day with a young up and coming filmmaker Christopher Nolan, I wish him the best and just such a fan of your work and really, really appreciate your time. It's really nice to meet you. Nice to meet you too and I hope to see you maybe in Sweden next time. Anytime and tech.

Ayo, Ayo, Ayo, Ayo, Ayo. Where you going? Yes. Okay. Thank you so much.

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Ryan Cooper is here. I am so happy. Thank you so much for doing this. Thanks for having me. It's amazing.

Okay. I got everybody here. Are you kidding? Are you kidding? We're thrilled you want to do this.

And I just got to start by saying like, I'm going to, I'm going to glaze you a little bit in the beginning. Please don't. I know. I know you're not going to, but only take a few minutes. I promise I'll be done.

But what we're talking about, what I wanted to talk to you about today. Like the big thematic thing is that what I love about your work and your characters is that you don't limit the possibilities of what you want to do as an artist and what your characters could do. Like you're really into the idea of almost open borders in terms of in terms of what people can do and also like what's in them. Basically what's in them. And I feel like that comes from, I've, you know, been reading so much about you and watching, of course, everything you make.

And it feels like you're really into this idea of making sure that you get influences from everywhere. Like that really informs you. Why do you think it's important to be influenced all the time by many different things? I think for me, I'm interested in like a lot of different things, you know. And all of my experience is definitely like inform me where I find myself, right?

Yeah. I think that what I do in the position of Occupy in the industry is, you know, I'm trusted to make things that can go into theaters and work for people from a lot of different backgrounds and environments and circumstances, right? So I think, I think what I have to do is I have to stay true to myself and what I like and also consider, you know, what people came up consuming if that makes sense. It does. And what you're saying is really interesting too because as an artist, you have to kind of like you're you have such a strong instinct about what you want.

Yeah. And it's almost like you can't you almost want to forget who you're making it for. But what I love about your work is you don't. Well, yeah. You don't.

Yeah, not enough for sure because I can't, right? Like, you know, I fell in love with movies like at the multiplex, you know, I got to our house here, right? To the film festival. So I was like fully back to the book, you know, you know what I'm saying? When you were a kid, what did you what did you eat at the movies?

Oof. Tell me about your movies, right? Would you do you bring stuff and sneaks of in? Would you get it there? I can find it denied.

And you snack smuggling. But if I did, I might have brought up him but I didn't tell you sandwich or two. I mean, I would do it if I wasn't that. But no, I used to like it was a period of time where they used to let you wait a candy. Yeah.

You know what I mean? You pay about wait. Yeah. And I would do experiments trying to see like what can you lighter? I looked at crazy which candy was heavier.

You know what I'm thinking? Like a trash bag full of cotton candy. Exactly. We had never been friends, you know. And I was all to all the simmers that I used to let us say once we bought one thing, you know, and go and they went and trip off us going to see something else.

Yeah. My goal to was penitimonyms. I'm not a big solo person, but like when I started to let you mix and match the drinks, I got involved with that. Yeah. So we had to do with penitimonyms and obviously the junior men if they end the freezer, you know, like if they end the freezer and then I'm done with it.

Like the ritual of getting your snack and sitting down and lights going down. I know you talked about it, but like it's so important for you to for films to live in theaters. Why is it so important for you? Man, this is really cool. We're talking about this.

Nah, I just love how I mean she's worried. You got it, Terri. Like like with I love how it's just you in there with a bunch of different types of people, you know, it's teenagers in there. That's the only place I could go be alone. It's a it's retired couples, you know, I mean, I guess it's groups of friends, depending on the movie you want to see, but everybody's in there together.

Yeah. And when the movies and when the movie is great, you know, everybody kind of unifies, you know, like you feel like you feel like everybody's energy, folks on the same thing. And what I actually really love about it, that I learned about myself since like a streaming era is like when I get when I get overwhelmed, whether it's something's too funny or some scary, I got too much anxiety. Or I'm too like I'm too like turned on by all the kind of like a pause, like almost like immediately, you know what I mean? Like like I'll have a fear that maybe I'm going to miss something because I'm laughing too hard or I'm out of a worry that like I'm gonna get too worked up and I'm gonna have a fucking heart attack on this.

Yeah, you can curse. I'm gonna have a heart attack or something. I'm fucking panic attack. I'm like it was dope and it did is you can't pause. That's so right.

You know, like it's no something's happening that has you like feeling like you like you still got it. You still got to go with it. Definitely enough giving yourself over to something that you don't have to control the pause, rewind or fast word like that is a really, you know, it's really nice for them. You come from it. You come from it.

You make me remember like when I went to the movie theater to what also happened was like from like I wanted to be funny. So also it was a place where you could be kind of funny like you'd have a moment, a quiet moment, you know, like especially in the like in the trailer. It's not so much a movie. Sometimes people wouldn't like it. But the trailer would come out and someone would be like nope, you know, we're never.

You get to get a laugh in a group. Like you get like that was sometimes like a lot of people's first. That's awesome. I never thought about these. And also in movie theaters, a lot of action happens like your first day.

You're scared. You grab someone's hand. First time I held someone's hand was a movie theater. Like it is so intimate. It's so cool.

Who were the what were the movies when you were like what were the movies that you can remember as a young person going in and walking out of that theater and feeling like you had been completely transformed? Yeah, it'll be it'll be two big ones. Boys in the hood. And I was a baby in there, man. Like young young young young young young young young old is kiddies now and she can't do a Pixar movie without being like that is too crazy.

I mean like I'm like wait, you know, I hear son like I'm like where you're going? Oh shit. But then a great beauty and a beast. Yeah. And in my commercial.

Yeah. All of these was like Ken and Greg first day. And I would say probably one of the biggest ones was Jurassic Park. We saw Jurassic Park and Auckland still had a drive in. And I was I remember being in the car.

Like, um, and you actually hook the speakers up to the window and I'm in there and it's the scene where the T-Rex scene at night, you know, I think comes off. They in a car, they in a car, it's on the way from me. And then I got the shot in the in the in the like saw you mirror where it says objects may be closer than I appear in a T-Rex is right on the screaming and I'll look at I'll look at mom. Sorry. And it's got the same shit.

So I'm like, I'll be a T-Rex jumping up. You know, I'll never forget. I'll never forget that shit, man. And like I got addicted to that feeling. Yes.

Yes. And it's time to give people that feeling, you know, you mentioned Oakland, you grew up in Oakland. You're going to school there. You're really good at sports. You're really good.

I was like, yeah. Okay. You're really good. What position did you play? Um, in college, I'll play receiver.

Yeah. So I return kicks player receiver. Um, and when you're a receiver and you're in college, are you always worried about your hands? Like, you know, do you when you're like out and you're like, I can't do that. Like, you don't treat your hands like, okay.

Yeah. I mean, I was like, like, like, I mean, if I was smart, I was like, I was like 17. I mean, I went and tripping. Like, like, um, I was literally like slamming my hand at a car door. Yeah.

Right. Like, so it wasn't really something we were thinking about. But like, now the kids get paid, which is great. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, I was on scholarship, which is like the most you could do literally, you know, I mean, like at the time, you know, and I was like, I was like thrilled that I could pay for school because my parents was watching. I asked me to, put me to private school once my, once my life. Um, so y'all was just, I was thrilled, man.

I was not thinking about my, my. No, you were. And it both, did you love that, did you love that feeling of playing football? Yeah. I was so great.

Oh, yeah. I love you. And were you, your Raiders fan growing up obviously? I was agnushing. Yeah.

Like in the Bay, I was agnushing. Do you have any posters on your wall? Did young Ryan have posters on? I did. I did.

I did. Yeah. As these artists, I had them all like, um, I had, I had Jerry Rice. Um, I had Tim Hardaway, where's, where's, where's around TMC? Um, you know, down the road, um, you know, I would, I would get, I would get into like, into like other athletes.

Like I came to a large one was a big one for me. Um, you know, in the football, I was, I started playing receiver. I was just like, I know like all the receivers, man, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, um, Tim Brown, you know, Steve Smith, who was Steve Smith, I love cause he was like short like I was, you know, and we're still out there making it happen. It's interesting. Like athletes, just like any, anyone else are like, I find looking for people that rep, like look like that.

Absolutely. That are good. It's like, I mean, I also knew that I like, you know, I would meet players like, um, like Marty Jones, Drew or Marshall Lynch, like, I'll play against and I'll be like, make a lot better than me. You know what I mean? Like, you know, they're going to be like, you become a cross player.

That's like, oh, that's something different. Yeah. And I also kind of can see early, maybe football, when going to be what I did for every time. How about Marshall and being like a comedy star now? Yeah.

Yeah. Was he always funny? I mean, he not funny. He's trying to tackle me. You know what I'm saying?

I just really play against him. You know, like we became across each other a lot. Um, and he would, he would, he would actually are in high school, he was trying to guard me. So I was dealing with him on offense and defense. I had some success on the offensive side against him, like, like trying to tackle that man was impossible.

So like he was not funny on the field. But he has a, as a person, man, he was hilarious. You know, his whole family is like that though. Yeah. And he was just from the same, from the same part of Oakland and his mom hilarious, you know what I mean?

Like brothers, you know, yeah. But how do you go from, so you're playing in your finance major and then you switch to becoming a film major? No, like so. You leave and go to USC after you. Yeah.

Yeah. So, um, I went to, I went to high school and Berkeley. Yeah. And that's when I was living in Richmond, another city that's even more blue collar than Oakland, right? Yeah.

Um, and I got a scholarship to a school called same marriage college, which in a bay. I had a teacher there, Rosemary Graham, who raised up the not wrote in the credit writing class was like, you should write screenplays. But at that time, I was a chemistry major. So I figured I was going to be a doctor or something, right? And then, um, but the chemistry lab was not working out with my football practices all the time.

So I was like, I got this chemistry sheet so I can keep my scholarship. And, um, that, that football program collapsed. So I got another scholarship to Sacramento State went there and measured in finance, but I took, I took film making classes on the side. That makes sense. Yeah.

I mean, when I, when I'm learning about you, like USC, you met so many people that, that. Oh, yeah. Talk about, talk about a team. It's where you met your team. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. That's when I was grad school. Right. So I worked with Louisville, well, I met first Louis Bjornsson, my composure in there. Um, my co-writer on Crete, Errant, Cunningham, um, and then eventually I met Seville, Hany.

Yeah. You're producing partner? Yeah. Who's watching me? And you met your beautiful wife, Cynthia.

Well, it says your, I met in Oakland. Oh, you met when you were like 13? I was like, yeah. You guys grew up together. You grew up together.

I'm thinking so amazing. When you talk about all the stuff that you make, um, you talk about the people that you make it with, which, in my opinion, um, like really, uh, I don't know, I, I so respect. I so respect artists who remind people that what they make is a communal effort. Oh yeah. But people don't always wanna do that, right?

Like they don't want, sometimes that's just not their first instinct. And it really is. And I know Zinzi makes your films with you. And how important is she in terms of like your process? How do you guys work together?

We just like since we, so we started doing a high school, we broke up for a little bit. And then, I mean, that's not for podcast. Okay, okay. High school shit. But we got back together right before we went to college.

And what we would do, like that's summer before we left, cause we both on scholarship, we went to Fresno State, I went to Saint Mary's, like I mentioned in this, like a mental state, what we would do is we would just work out together, to get ready for college. And we got some movies. Like that was it. Like we was either on the track working out in the way we were in different ways. Or we was at the movies, every villain and Richmond and Oakland.

And for us, we got really used to pushing each other, supporting each other, you know, being at each other's meetings, her being at my football games, she's incredibly shy. But like at my games, I could hear her voice, you know, while I was off there trying to catch down, trying to catch down to the same for her, to track me. And when I got interested in filmmaking, you know, she was just really supportive, you know, like I was writing screenplays and Microsoft Word and kind of like vinting to her. Like, man, when I got this software that cost me 100 bucks, called Final Draft and you know, maybe when I got that, you know what I mean? So I got just the margins and all that.

And then she said her money got that for me. And it wasn't just like here baby, you go to the draft, she was like, yo, where's that script at? You know, I think you're working on, you know, the athletic mindset. So how it works is, you know, I always talk to her about what I'm thinking about working on, and she'll kind of home my page with her. She'll be the first person to read, you know, what I write, give me feedback.

So my script's always going on really, really home at the early stages of my career. And in the film school, she was with me, you know, all the time, she'll be in her audit classes when you ask me work on the sets, you know, producing, and sometimes operating the camera, you know, if I had to jump in, you know, so it was that kind of support and it's just kind of stayed that way through Fruville when we shot at home, I was when we first moved in and started living together. And she was on a segna, she had a day job. She was just coming, like, you know, a frickin' set. How many days did you shoot Fruville Station in?

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It's time for a clearer path to mental health care and we can all be part of building it. To learn how, head over to camh.ca slash good hang. This episode is brought to you by Enterprise. Sometimes you need a car to get through a scenic drive across the Rockies. Sometimes you need it just to get through Tuesday.

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Like those two things are so important, I think for any real leaders, especially on set. But I don't think enough people know that a set is like a little town. Like it's like so many people work. No, totally, totally. Your parents were school teachers.

Yeah. Yeah. So like you get it. Like the, like that blue color mind shape, you know, the communal mind shape, the need for communication. If for me, it really is, I think that's why movies work when they work, you know.

Cause you're talking about like mass entertainment, you know what I mean? Like a lot of people going and going engaged with it. But that's why you're such a genius is because it's, it's hard to make a movie, number one, just hard to make a movie. Then it's hard to make a good movie. Then it's hard to make a good movie that people enjoy making with you.

They walk away and go, that was a good experience. Then it's hard to make a good movie that was enjoyable to make that people go and see. Yeah. Those things are really hard to make you do it. Yeah, yeah.

And then you go over again and you've done it again with sinners, so incredible. And I picture you going to your team and being like, I have an idea. And they were like, what was their first instinct was? So I went to Zinzi first. Yeah.

And it wasn't fully back that she was like, man, I ain't ready yet. I keep thinking on that. So I thought about it some more. I think I went through it like three times before she was like, okay, that makes sense. You know, and it was better for it.

And then it goes to Sam O'Hanyan, who, you know, we were the three founders of Proximity. We got a co-founder of Luevie Jorensen. And this is a music based film. So we brought Luevie in crazy early. Exactly.

Before I was a script, you know, while I was just idea. Oh, that's so interesting, Luevie. So were you always thinking about Michael B. Jordan? From that you were always thinking about using it as twins.

And the twins was always an early, like that was, why twins? It's hard to shoot. I know. Yeah. Like this extra work.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, for sure. I mean, look, like it was a hook for me. It was so sticky, right? Like, um, and in this day and age, you need, I think you need multiple reasons to like lean in, you know, like when there's so many great things available, you know, like I was in the way, I'm watching you, I'm watching you and Julie Shifus talk.

It's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, two really entertaining people being intimate and talking. You know, that's just on my phone for me to click, you know, it's so many ways to spend time. So for me, like, I think that I'm a fan of, I believe we're like, so things happen in multiple hooks. You know what I mean? And it's a hook for me because, um, I have twins in my family, but I love them and I got a lot of homies that's twins, but I'm also also have a crippling fear of double gang.

And it's like, forgive, you know what I mean? No, I don't. What do you mean? Yeah. Um, what are you afraid of that?

You're going to run across your own? Yeah, I've had nightmares like that. Yeah, yeah, but also like. Because I know you mean because no offense to twins, but twins, the idea of twins in general is a little creepy. It's great.

It's just creepy enough. Yeah, like so, I think, someone who was in the womb with you. Well, yeah, that's fascinating to me. Yeah. And we got deep, we're Mike, like I got two buddies who are filmmakers, Nolan and Logan Miller.

They actually wrote the script. She tweeted that, um, Viola was in, she was present in like the action sheet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. From Northern California, a little bit farther north than where I'm from. And, um, and I actually asked them if they would be open to being consultants on the movie, like to work with me and Mike on developing the characters.

And we dug so deep into like the mindset and the dynamics of what it's like to have, you know, you know, essentially a copy of yourself next to you all the time, you know. But Michael, Michael B, he just like, he's just not, he's just not knocking you back by his brain. And how you portray these characters? Where did you first see, Michael? Did you see him before you knew him?

Did you see him? Did you see him? Did you watch the wire? I did. So good enough.

Yeah, yeah. Hard break. Yeah, Wallace. Yeah, yeah. A lot of kids like that.

Yeah. You know, friends of mine and also when I was going with my dad, you know, so yeah, like it was a brilliant, a brilliant portrayal and, you know, kudos to Mike for his performance and David Simon for writing the character. And as you all for having a show, you know what I mean? That show was a next level. And he was great fan, I like, so apparently.

That's right. And did you, like, do you think it's important for directors? A lot of directors have an actor that they get to kind of, you've had a few, but like an actor that you get to kind of keep working with and working stuff out with. Why is that helpful to work with the same person? More than once.

Yeah, I mean, I think it's great, man, like, it's funny because actually comes back to football for me because I play receiver and I play with a lot of different quarterbacks, you know, especially in college. And it was tough because I never felt like I found my rhythm with one person, you know. And that's so important. Like I think finding a rhythm is like a, it's like fundamental to I think to achieve in greatness, you know. So it's phenomenal to have to have found an actor who's so talented, you know, gifted and vicious, you know, because Mike is constantly trying to push himself and get better at his craft professional.

He's also like a good person, you know, like, like he's like, when you're doing the movie with him, if he's number one on your car, you know that you're gonna have a safe set for people, you know, and you'll be able to do great work without making people's lives, or we're gonna treat people with kindness. He got nothing to prove. So he learns the PA's name, he learns the camera, he's named the same way, you know, the producers names, you know. Right, right. And that is something that I think permeates the set, like I've found, I've been very blessed in it.

Well, one could argue too, that you, that's also what you transmit, give off. That's your station. Like your channel is attuned to that. So people take their cue from you. I try to, you know.

But it's great to have Mike there to amplify it, you know, because that's who he is. And he's ridiculously talented. Like he was doing work that required a lot of focus, you know, like he was, he was still generous to people. You know, he'll come to sound the day where he's gotta be, you know, two different people. Was it fun to call him up and be like, you're gonna be a vampire?

It was crazy. Because I would be psyched. It was crazy. I might have to make the car something. Man, you might have to figure out what, for me, what it was was how I ended up working.

I was trying to get the screenplay together. Because Mike's busy, you know. And I didn't want to say, I got a thing and then having waiting for it, you know, for a script. I didn't even blow my phone. I got a very sad, but what ended up happening was he called me and pitched me something while I was working on this for him.

And I was like, first I was like, Mike, I can't, you know, I can't work on that right now. And he got upset. Like, hey, man, what's going on, man? Like, I want to get this going. Like, you're something, you're not telling me.

So I'm like, I'm working on a thing. Oh, it's interesting. You're like, I have a secret, but I'm not ready to tell you. I'm bringing this to you. This is what it is.

It's twins, you know, it's period. It's vampires. And I remember how he reacted, because he just got quiet for it for a month. And I was like, oh, shit, I lose him. You know, he's like, he's like, you know what?

That's not pretty interesting, man. He's like, OK, OK, we want to do it. And so I got the script done and got it to him. And he was in the end. I mean, I mean, there's a lot.

I'm not a big horror. I get kind of scared at movies. And I'm not really a big horror fan. But what's so cool about vampires is vampires are sexy. Exactly.

The zombies are not. Zombies are not sexy. No. Vampires are sexy. There's, it's true.

And your film has a, like, there's so much going on. It's center is so amazing. And original IP and like beautifully written and beautifully acted and shot and incredible cast. The chemistry between the characters in your film is so real. And the way in which you basically create in the midst of horror, like love and romance and sex.

And you do a lot of things in this movie really, really well. And I would just like say the most of the many things in the film that I love. Can I just get small for a second to talk about the scene, the dancing scene in the film, autumn, your incredible DP, first female DP to shoot in this IMAX format, Archapaw. And autumn, but how did you guys approach the scene? There's that beautiful scene where everyone's dancing and kind of enjoying themselves before the horror starts.

And their ancestors, they joined them. How did that scene look on the page? Yeah, I can tell you, because I outlined the script before getting into the final drive and writing it. And I didn't have that surreal element to it. It was just going to be that, you know, preacher boy scenes and people like it, you know.

That's what it said in the script? No, no, no. I was just saying, I'll line. OK, I'll line. And I'll line.

When I got to it in the script, I felt strange because I fall in love with all these characters. I didn't want them to die. You know what I mean? I was realizing this movie. I got to, like, he's in the neck and check out, you know what I'm saying?

And I felt bad. And I realized that this scene was the midpoint. And it dawned me like, these people, the real people, not in my script, the real people that they based on these black folks in 1930s who were, like, of age to be in his juke's link. You know, they were living in Quarsdale during Shumkrai. They always, they always sharecroppers because it was nothing else that the society allowed them to be.

The grandparents were enslaved. Their children, their children were still sharecroppers. But somehow they invented, you know, probably the most impactful American contribution to global popular culture. And they invented it just because they wanted to fill a lot for a few hours, you know, Friday and Saturday night. You know, and they had no idea that the music that they listened to would change the world.

You know, like, I thought about that. I said, I'm off the top of the top, like, killing my vampires. You know, I got to have something else in the movie that is some type of victory moment, you know. And that was where the idea of depicting, just how powerful the Transcenia, Sammy's voice is if it could call a vampire, you know, maybe could call these people's ancestors and descendants too. So I wrote the script.

I wrote it all in italics. I picked italics on it and I kept it all in one chunk. Like, I almost like a stream of consciousness. It lifted like that in the script for when my partners read it and everybody ready to know to really, you know, read that differently, you know. Yeah, it's so powerful.

And thank you for putting that, giving that context to you because that's what it felt like. It felt like you were loving those characters in real time. That's what it felt like. It felt like a loving gesture. And we felt that when we saw it was so, so beautiful.

And so beautifully shot, just the way the camera moves. I mean, it was everybody working like in concert, which we brought in Akama Jones, who was a choreographer, works a lot with Usher, Raymond, choreographed, like, Pitch Perfect and you did all the pan, actually made him do Chabot Bozeman, and I'm actually a piece. And, you know, every department was in on that, like from Hannah Beakler to my visual effects for Vodas, Michael Raulin and James Alexander, all of them, they're all archaparks. I'm a tiger, obviously you got it. Brilliant, steady can.

Yeah, the steady can work was incredible. It's a kid named Renny. Haitian American kid, X football player. He's strong, and he's strong, and everybody had to work together. The actors, the incredible dancers, you know, Ruth Carter, where Costumes, and it was like, that was the most team effort of everything that we did.

That scene, as well as, I used to call it, the Twin Counter part, which is the step-dance scene. It happens a little bit later in the film. Yeah, it's so beautiful. And I want to say you talk about your work on Black Panther, and Chadwick, you gave a beautiful speech recently at the Hollywood Walk of Fame about Chadwick, which is beautiful. And I don't think people ask you enough, or I don't hear enough, like, what did you guys laugh about when you would work together on Black Panther?

You know, Chad. Give me a shot. I mean, when you think about times where you laugh. I mean, have you seen Chadwick? Have you seen Chadwick?

Oh, yeah. He is hilarious. I can do anything. But his natural way of being, I think. Did he like to tease?

All the time. Yeah, no, no, no. He was, no, he would do it in action, which was what Crayton might want to say. He was very disciplined. So he's constantly in action.

And just being, like, you know, he'll be ridiculous. Like, in between types. You know, like, I'm trying to think of like. Like, do you guys goof around when you're, I mean, you're working hard. I was ridiculously stressed out.

You know, like, I'm a little stressed out. And we know now what our child was doing. But he was incredible, man. And like, deeply funny. You know, deeply funny, man.

Like, he would tease with Lupita and the na. You know, constantly cracking jokes, man. Like, you know, we would laugh most about the costume. You know, like, just how. Yeah.

And I bet it must be fun to like introduce a new costume. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, man. Like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, some of the props to him. Like, we would joke.

We would joke and say that he was going to give me. Like, he was walking scene. And we would joke and say we was going to give him the arm, like, the giraffe tail. Like, he can like swipe, like swipe fly away. Why he was walking with me?

He was walking with Lupita. And he was a martial artist. So he took the little things. Yeah. He had like the ability to clown.

He was so talented. So talented. He was gifted, man. Like, like, but how do you know? I feel like comedy sometimes is where we stay connected.

Sometimes with the people that have passed, like, like thinking about the times we laughed with them. 100%. And they, I feel sometimes like they make us laugh. Yeah. We see something that makes us laugh.

That makes us think of us laughing with them. I don't know. I just think that like, it's fun sometimes to think about those times. For sure, man. Like, I think for me, when I look back at my relationship with him, man, it taught me so much.

But the biggest thing is like to not take things for granted. You know, like even all it is, I mean, like, like the success of the film, being advised through podcast, which is doing awards, press with my cast. Like, before losing him, you know, I would be not present in those moments, you know, like I would be overwhelmed or be considered to be work or dealing with like a posture syndrome or have you, but since losing him, because he would be the one to like snap me out of that, you know, like when I would be stressed on pads, I would say, man, I gotta hurry up and do this. I'm gonna get fired. You know, he would say, hey, man, stop saying it.

He actually put me to the side. He was like, yo, stop saying it. You know, and I'm like, no, I truly believe that. He was like, yo, I'm not gonna let anything happen to you. He told him, I'm not letting him like fire you, bro.

Like me, like, so please stop saying it. Relax, man. You know, your work enjoy it, you know, and that very active of being present, he was so good at that. So I think about that all the time, like, even walking in here, which I'm like, man, I'm really here. Like I've seen this seven podcast and from here talking, I've seen you perform and watch all your movies and your shows and it's like, it's like, I'm being invited to come see in the same, in the same way.

I'm just being present. No, I'm really going out from him, you know? It's that lesson is like, I feel like the lesson we just have to keep remembering and be reminded of over and over again, like be where you are. Yes. Be where your feet are, be where you are.

It's hard. It's not easy, but you're right. It's a gift every time you're reminded of it. So are you getting to enjoy the fact that you have a gigantic, successful movie that's like being rewarded and will be awarded and you're with these people that you work with now for a really long time. It's awesome.

You don't have a time in my life. And so we do this thing on the show where we talk to people who know our guests, we kind of talk well behind their back before we talk to them. We talk to Ludwig today. OK. Oh, man, that's great.

OK. And first of all, so Swedish. Yeah. Yeah. My brother lives in Sweden.

So I tried to talk a little Swedish to him. How'd I go? It didn't go well. He talked back to me in English. No, he talked back to me in Swedish and I panicked.

I totally panicked. Well, you got to do the first thing. I got to like two words and then he answered me and I froze. You want to talk speak in language that people would either speak or they'd just talk back to me in English and be like, I got to stop. Oh, I know.

That's not the thing. That's the thing. When they talk back to me in English, and they're like, don't worry. Don't worry. I'm going to try to do here.

Yeah. So you got Swedish back. So I did get it. Maybe I should look at it as a win. So I got Swedish back.

I got the first base. He was humoring me. And he's so, I mean, what is incredible talent? And the music, it's so interesting that you brought him in so early because you can tell that, I mean, this is a movie about the power of music too. And you know, you have buddy guy be like, the embodiment of kind of like the before and now, you know, he's just like a living person.

Totally. And in many ways, almost feels like a vampire. Yeah. In the way that like, he's still here and was there. It's so cool.

It went that long ago. Yeah. It's like kind of like what the movie is saying. Yeah. Right.

And right. And a very good. It's actually like, it's actually like I cheated him for younger. Because like, if the character would actually be in buddy's age, it would have put the movie into the 2000s. Right.

It would have put it in 2002 as a part of the 92, which would have put the fashion like it is today. So it would have put it in. Right. Yeah, because you need a little bit. You do a lot of it.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's really interesting. And you and Ludwig, you know, he's talked about how amazing it is to work with you, how collaborative is to work with you. He also said like, you know, there were a bunch of different versions of sinners that before the final version and working on that together and figuring out what that was.

And how his dad and your family, the blues, it did. How did it bring us together? Well, yeah. So, so the history of how the blues kind of became this instrument of like global cultural change was really interesting. Like the delt of blues when the record industry came, they made those records, race records.

And this was a time where, you know, country was segregated. And the record industry was a product of that. So they would kind of put race records over here, anything made by a black person. The same record made by a white person. I'd call it maybe rock and roll or bluegrass or country.

And black musicians, when the record industry was burgeoning, they couldn't tour, you know. But their records would travel overseas and a lot of bands in Europe kind of fell in love with the music, like maybe most famously the Rolling Stones fans just sort of over the Beatles. And then those guys would come to the space and seek out these musicians and then take them on their European tours, you know, as opening acts. And in Sweden, Louvix's father saw, I believe, John Lee Hooker, the Albert King. Yeah, yeah.

And was so inspired by seeing him. And he decided that he wanted to become blues guitarist and became one, you know. And when he had his first son, who was Louvix, you know, he introduced him to guitar lessons, you know. And his dad made money as a guitar teacher. And what's crazy is Louvix, you know, how he tells me, it was something that he likes to spend time with his dad.

But he wasn't necessarily crazy about the music that I was listening to until he heard Metallica, you know. And then Boomi found love with it and became a guitarist, had a jazz quartetel kind of stuff with the music school. And eventually he came to the stakes to learn how to become a film composer. And that's how we met in school, you know, 2008. Yeah, you met at a party.

We did. Yeah. I mean, if you want to call it that, it was pretty, it was pretty dead. It was a bunch of people sitting there. It was a bunch of nerds sitting there.

We were still on, you know what I mean? Well, he asked me. Yeah, his question to you is like a perfect musician guitarist question, which is question that he wanted me to ask you was, how is your guitar playing going? Oh my God. He wants to know how it's going.

So maybe there's one thing you're not great at. There's a lot of things like, you should bring Zing in here. You should tell you. You should tell you also. But no, no, I'm terrible.

You like it's not going well. It's not going well. Good. It makes the rest of us feel a little better. You're also not like an excellent guitar blues guitar yet.

Yeah, but you're trying to... Better at typing. Yeah. But the guitar is still here. You know, my kids play now, you know, but I gotta get back on my lessons.

Yeah, he wanted to check in. He wanted to check in. Okay, well, I just want to say, you know, before we wrap is that the effect that Black Panther had on, you know, I went to the movies to see that with my sons, my teens. And to see something together, a shared experience like that together and to kind of walk out to your point out into the world after feeling completely changed. Like the color of the sky is different.

And the way we're talking to each other is different. And the things we've heard is different. Like the way in which their lives were truly changed by that film is so special to me. I really, I thank you for it because it's not always easy to find that, especially like a mom and her boys and teen boys, like to find something that you can share in together and love equally. It's such an incredible piece of art.

They would want me to ask you if you're making another one. Yes. Okay. That's all I want to ask. My mom was my movie buddy, you know, and she still is.

You know, so, so, so you like that, that hearing that story. I can't tell you how many times I've been in the car while my mom going to go see a movie she was excited about. She would go and I was too young to go to see me. She would come back from days from my dad and she would, if the movie was good, you know, she would, she would stand there in the living room and act out the movie for me. Like walk, walk, we do everything that happened.

My father's memory was hard to do that with the future. She's like, he's in the hands before he jumps down the waterfall. And he told me, John says, I don't care. And they're like, that was my mom. So like hearing that you watched it, which I had a nice time.

That means everything to me. Thank you. It meant a lot to me too. I really appreciate it. And the last question I want to ask you is, your relationship to comedy, you have, you, I think in all of the stuff that you do, you have fun, you like, have fun with the ways and again, which you don't put boundaries on how your characters are going to react to things.

Sometimes they're like light and comedic. You have a, you want to have fun in the stuff that you make and you want people have fun when they go and see your films. And what are your, what were some influential comedic films for you growing up? And what are, what's making you laugh now? How do you laugh?

Man, that's so funny. A lot of it for me these days, it's coming from the internet. Yeah. Like big time, man. But coming up, you know, like one of my favorite movies is Coming to America.

Oh my God. Incredible movie. Like that's my, you know, that's my, that's my heart to this day. And I love, I love like, I love Friday. Yeah.

Like, like, that's a big one. Yeah. Like, like, McKay's, McKay's work, like one of my favorite movies, The Other Guys. Oh, yeah. I mean, I think that gets slept on.

I totally agree. That's my favorite movie in here. You know, you make some, some great, some great movies. Um, that is a stupid, fun movie. Yo.

I can't, I just, like it's so much, it's like it's so much, yeah. It's so much in that movie. That's, that's, that's, that's so deeply hilarious. You know, like, like, like, obviously, actually now, you know, you do. You do?

Yeah. I got homies that's been on there and just, you know, like, I love what Mike did on there. Yeah. It's a stay farm beat. No.

Wait, tell me, explain again the state farm bit. So, so, so Mike is, uh, you know what I mean? Yeah, we said it. So Mike is a J from state farm and, um, and it gets, it just goes dark, like, like, from there it becomes, it becomes like a, like a, like a, like a, like a day of the lunch. But, um, yeah, J from state, okay.

He just totally replaces, he totally replaces it. He becomes his man's right here. Mike replaces him. I can see how I, you would like this. Let's go see, let's get out of play.

He's gonna stand on the small of his wife's back. Yeah. Oh, he just gave him a look. Yeah. Okay.

So you're, you, you watch, you've watched sketch to get. I do. Okay. Yeah. I do.

I love it a lot. That's one so excited to be here. I mean, obviously, I mean, that, that enjoyed from Pixar, you know what I'm saying? But with all the, all the, all the comedy stuff. And I'm like, I'm like, I think it's like the highest level of what we do.

So like, you know, any of y'all, I can, I can kill it on multiple levels and multiple ways. You know what I mean? All I have scripted or improv is like, you know, but you would know that from my work. Okay. I feel it.

I feel it. I feel it. I feel it. I feel it. I feel it.

I feel it. I feel it. I feel it. I feel it and I feel it. I feel it success harm.

Let me see. Still, I feel it. Nice to see you. Well, my friend. When I was, I felt as in my hand and I celebrate.

I was in a digital Number two, I think I must have had like a movie poster. It was probably, you know, something like Lily Tomlin and Bette Midler and like Big Business or something like that. I don't remember. I probably had an 80s motivational poster, like a cat hanging on a branch, saying, hanging there. When I was really young, I used to look at a magazine called Team Beat and I would rip out posters of Sean Cassidy and put him on my wall and put lip balm on my lips and then kiss the picture.

So, I don't know, just felt like you guys need to know that. Okay, Ryan, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for listening, bye. You've been listening to Good Hang. The executive producers for this show are Bill Simmons, Jenna Weisbergman and me, Amy Poehler.

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