S05E08: Collective Dreaming, Indigenous Impact, and Story as Evaluation with Martell Hesketh and Gillian Joseph

Martell Hesketh, a member of Michel First Nation from Treaty 6 territory in Canada, is a program evaluator dedicated to advancing Indigenous ways of knowing through data and storytelling. After studying Human Biology at Stanford University and earning her MPH from the University of Washington, Martell worked with Urban Indian organizations at a tribal epidemiology center. Her work focuses on reclaiming narratives through evaluation grounded in Indigenous values and community priorities. She currently works at NDN Collective as the Impact & Learning Manager and lives on Coast Salish lands in Seattle, Washington.   Gillian Joseph is Ihaŋktoŋwaŋ and Mdewakaŋtoŋ Dakota and grew up as a guest on Waxhaw and Catawba lands. They have worked as a researcher, evaluator, and writer across diverse contexts, guided by their passion for Indigenous sovereignty and storytelling. Some of their previous experience includes serving as Research Manager at NDN Collective, developing and evaluating a curriculum about Indigenous Knowledge, producing social sciences textbooks, and utilizing decolonial methodologies to deepen understandings of health and well-being. They have a Bachelor’s degree in Psychology from George Washington University and a Master’s in Social and Cultural Psychology which was completed at ISCTE - University Institute of Lisbon, the University of Oslo, and the University of Limerick. Overview In this episode, Gladys is joined by Martell Hesketh and Gillian Joseph in a conversation about Indigenous evaluation, storytelling, and the ongoing work of redefining impact. Martell and Gillian share their journeys into evaluation through public health, psychology, community-based research, and Indigenous-led organizations, reflecting on how they came to understand evaluation as a practice of responsibility, relationship, and narrative reclamation.   Together, they explore their process of developing an impact framework within a movement organization, where work is constantly shifting in response to community needs. Rather than treating impact as a fixed or linear concept, Martell and Gillian describe it as contextual, relational, and intergenerational, something shaped by ancestors, present-day realities, and collective dreams for the future. They highlight the importance of strong and flexible evaluation questions, positive feedback loops, Indigenous definitions of sustainability, and the need to resist narrow metrics that flatten community stories.   A central thread of the episode is collective dreaming: the practice of coming together to imagine futures rooted in Indigenous worldviews, shared meaning, and community power. This episode invites listeners to consider how evaluation can hold space for dreams, uncertainty, accountability, and the many ways Indigenous communities already know how to measure what matters.   Resources  Article: Reclaiming Data for Indigenous Dreaming & Self-Determination. Insights For Indigenous Evaluation Book (Open access and free online!) https://pressbooks.pub/indigenousinsightscollective/  For more visit: https://www.gladysrowe.com/podcast (Scroll to the bottom to subscribe to the newsletter!) If you are loving this podcast please leave a five star review on your favourite streaming service. If you would like to offer support please visit: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/InsightsPod