S1 · Ep 13: Talent and Belonging — A Human Approach to Inclusion | Jenny Chen | The MindSpa Podcast

Send us Fan MailWhat happens when well-intentioned diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts unintentionally create more division?In this episode of The MindSpa Podcast, Tina Wilston and Michelle Massunken sit down with Jenny Chen, CEO of Catalais Consulting, to explore a different way of thinking about inclusion in the workplace. Drawing on her experience in the finance industry and as a parent who witnessed her daughter face exclusion, Jenny Chen challenges leaders to rethink how they approach diversity conversations.Her perspective is not about implementing more DEI programs. Instead, she speaks about “un DEI ing” organizations by addressing the root causes of exclusion. At the heart of racism, sexism, ageism, and other forms of marginalization, she asks a simple but powerful question: are people respected? Do they feel seen, heard and valued?Together, Tina Wilston and Michelle Massunken explore how many challenges labelled as diversity issues are often infrastructure and talent management concerns. When organizations focus on respect and individual potential rather than identity categories, inclusion becomes embedded in everyday leadership practices rather than treated as a separate initiative.The conversation also highlights what Jenny Chen refers to as the Taylor Swift effect. When the NFL gained an estimated two billion dollars from new Swiftie viewers despite some fans’ resistance, it revealed how a zero-sum mindset can shape reactions to change. The belief that welcoming new audiences or perspectives somehow diminishes existing ones mirrors the resistance many workplaces experience around inclusion.By reframing inclusion as a matter of human respect and organizational design, Jenny Chen offers a steady and grounded approach that supports innovation, well-being and sustainable growth.This episode offers a thoughtful discussion on leadership, belonging and what it truly means to see people as individuals.GuestJenny Chen, CEO of Catalais ConsultingConnect with Jenny Chen:Website  | Facebook | LinkedIn | Podcast | Instagram | LinktreeThe MindSpa PodcastThoughtful conversations about mental health, relationships, identity, healing, grounded in clinical expertise and steady human insight.HostsTina Wilston, M.Ed., Registered Psychotherapist Co-Owner, MindSpa Mental Health CentreLinkedIn, Instagram, FacebookMichelle Massunken, MSW, RSWCo-Owner, MindSpa Mental Health CentreLinkedIn, Instagram, FacebookMindSpa Mental Health CentreOttawa - Kanata & Gloucesterthemindspa.caLinkedIn, instagramListen onApple Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music | YouTube