Hey everybody, welcome to the stacking growth podcast. I am Tori Kinlick, your host today. And I'm joined by one of my colleagues, Matt. And we have a special guest on as well.
So Matt, you want to say a quick hello before we introduce our guest for today? Yeah, sure thing. Hi everybody. My name is Matt Wilbanks.
I'm the director of demand gen at Refine Labs. And really excited about this conversation. Awesome. And joining us today, we have Lindsey Chepkamma.
Did I get the last name right? All right. Close enough. Close enough.
Close enough. And Lindsey is the CEO and founder of a company called Casid. Lindsey, you want to say a quick hello? And feel free to kind of give a little bit of information in your background and your company.
We'd love to hear a little bit more. Sure. Yeah, I'm Lindsey. I am CEO and as you mentioned founder of Casid, we are a software platform that serves B2B marketers.
And the whole reason we exist is to empower them to both maximize and measure the value of content, just like this, of this rich creative, connective tissue, audio and video content that brings together brands and audiences. And I know we're going to get a lot into it. So in that shell, we're here because I spent 15 years in B2B marketing. And we're solving a problem that I faced when we launched podcasting video content and the company I was at before, I started Casid.
So I'm sure we'll dig into that. Yeah, all things podcasting and video. That's awesome. Yeah, very meta topic for today, right?
We're recording a podcast about podcasting. Probably not new to you, but it's feeling a little bit meta in that respect. So let's start with the founder story. I love a good founder story.
Yeah, we kind of love to hear a little bit more about how you and your co-founders decided, this is a big enough problem that we want to address it. We want to build a company around this. And obviously, you hit the nail on the head because your company has seen some great growth over the past couple of years. And we know the podcast is huge, especially in B2B, but really everywhere, these days.
So yeah, we'd love to hear a little bit more about the background of casted. Sure. So as I mentioned, I spent 15, 20 years in B2B marketing. I've seen it from every angle from agencies to corporate side, big companies, small companies.
And the common thread always for me in building a brand, it has been, I mentioned this creativity. And when you think about connecting on a human level, and so there's been lots of ways to do that over many, many years, but in the company that I was at prior to starting casted, that was 2015, 2016. And I was a really big fan of podcasts. I would listen to learn about leadership and what was happening in marketing.
I was like, you know, we should do this. This is a really great, rich, creative way to reach our audience and connect with them on a human level. So started a podcast called Marker and Machine, where we talked to our customers and our partners and industry leaders, and really quickly saw a lot of value, saw a lot of really great anecdotal feedback, had a lot of just kind of uplift in number of downloads, which is all we had to measure because that was an issue at the time still is. And the other thing that I quickly learned despite all of the quick success and warm embrace of the show was that I had no way to prove its value on the business because I've said metric, which is number of downloads.
I had a CEO who loved the show and every week that we published was like, I love the show. It's so great. He listened every week. He was a big fan.
And he was like just waiting on the edge of his seat for me to tell him what it was doing for the business. He's like, how many leads are we getting? How much revenue is it generating? And this was a Mars tech company, mind you.
So that was the world that we lived in. And I had to look at it and say, I don't know. I mean, we just took us 10,000 downloads. But I don't know what it's doing for the business because that's as far as it goes.
And so what do you mean? What do you mean? You don't know what it's doing for the business. And so we did it and of time and money that we're spending on.
The show can't continue if we can't prove its value. And I was like, OK, leave me. I know. And so we did what a lot of companies did.
And still do today, which is we kind of stapled together a tech stack and some manual solutions to understand as best we could doing what is now called self-reported attribution, how did you all talk a lot about how are people getting coming in? And what can evaluate the show generating? But that only goes so far, especially when your market are trying to prove your worth. So the opportunity arose to go be the change I wanted to see and build what I thought for sure already existed, but didn't, which is now cast it.
And that was about three and a half years ago. And so I mentioned we're a software platform. And we do just that. We say, hey, we're going to help you not only check the box or getting your content out into the world, but say, OK, once it's out there, once it's indicated, and has a place to live on your site, and help you grow and own your audience, then what?
How are you going to get more value out of every episode? And how are you going to understand what's doing for the business? How are you going to bridge the gap between that content and sales and CX? And that's what we need to do.
Very, very cool. And yeah, I think that is something that we hear from a lot of our clients that are in a position where they're looking to create a podcast. And so many of the conversations that they're having internally are that exact question, well, how do we know it's working? How do we prove it's worth, right?
Whether it be about the upfront investment or the time that goes into it. And yeah, self-reported attribution can be a great way to identify people that have come in bound and heard about you that way. But ultimately, just like any content on any format, it's not necessarily about just producing great content, but distributing it as well. And I find that that is oftentimes the biggest missing component everyone's focused on.
How do we prove the ROI? How do we make sure that we've got the highest quality production value, but somewhere along the line, people just forgot that they're not just going to find you because you're building this great content. You've got to figure out different ways to put it in front of them. So with the clients that you're working with, that you've been working with over the years since you started this company, what are some of the things that you're seeing be the most effective in terms of helping distribute that great content that your clients are producing, that you're producing, that we're producing.
Yeah, any tips for anyone listening in on that topic? Absolutely. So we work with some pretty cool companies who are doing some people things. Those that are new to podcasting and those that have been doing it for years.
We work with IBM and Salesforce, Gong and Drift, and those that podcasts that really I think we're all listening to and learning from quite a bit. And one thing that we've learned along the way is that there is no one size fits all, which seems like common sense, but there's no one size fits all approach to what does podcasting look like in a business. It's also really easy to compare your start with someone else's middle, right? Which is really dangerous.
So what we did is with all of these learnings that we actually just put something together called the Amplified Marketing Majority Curve. An Amplified Marketing is this approach that we talk about at CASTED about taking content like this, like exactly what we're doing right now, your audio and video content, and saying, that's great, that should be the center, not just the auxiliary thing over here, but that should be the center of your strategy, and then you ring it out. And to your question, that's where the real value happens is when brands are not just publishing and promoting, but going back and breaking apart, repurposing, reusing, atomizing, using that content across multiple channels, and then ultimately using it to drive real measurable business results. And so, but that's really, you can't just, often you can just do that, right?
So you gotta start somewhere. So we just put together this Amplified Marketing Majority Curve that looks at the different stages that brands typically go through from where they get started with podcasting and video. And the maturity, the natural evolution that happens along the way is they get to that holy grail of actual Amplified Marketing where they're driving real, it's not just about the show, it's not just about growing an audience, it's not just about growing a brand, it's about driving real actual dollars and real actual measurable revenue for the business. So give us a hypothetical journey on this marketing curve, like what's the ideal, right?
So we're all kind of starting at the same point, right? We've got a great idea for a podcast, a unique angle, a point of view, something to say, right? And an interesting point of view, that's maybe a little bit different, or at least a different angle on something else that people are talking about or care about. So with that being the starting point, what does this maturity curve look like?
What is the path to success when it comes to, we can kind of keep it focused on podcasts, but I'll just understand what this maturity curve looks like. Yeah, so stages one, two, and three are really about the show. Stage one, we've all heard a lot of origin stories of a podcast, which is I have a phone, I was walking down the street, like the self videos that we saw, especially in like 2020, like filming yourself and then posting to LinkedIn. That's the start of a podcast for a lot of people in a lot of brands.
And then that's stage one, stage two, stage one is I have an idea, I'm gonna make it tangible. I'm gonna take this concept and record something, right? Make an idea reality. And stage two, it turns into a show.
I'm gonna do that on a regular basis. And I'm gonna start to get into a discipline around publishing something on a regular basis, really hone in on who's it for, and why am I doing it, and give this thing some structure. Stage three is where I think a lot of people and businesses think is the holy grail, which is I got a show, it's got some traction, now I got to grow the audience. It's all about building an audience for the show, which is cool, but you're missing so much, right?
Because if you're doing a show on behalf of a brand, it's not about the show, it's about the brand, right? Ultimately, like if I am, it cast in, right, if I'm a business, I'm doing a show, and I have millions of people listening to my show, but it doesn't turn into any brand awareness or any revenue, is that why I'm doing it? Maybe, but probably not, especially if you're doing it, is part of the B2B marketing strategy. So the evolution, that's stage three, which is all about growing your audience, but then the real opportunity is in stages four and five.
So stage four is when you kind of look up, you've worked on growing this audience, and you kind of come up out of the weeds, and you kind of look up around for a second, you're like, wait, what if it's not about the show? And it's about instead using the show to build the brand, right? And that's where this amplified marketing really kicks in to say, okay, yes, I'm gonna keep leaning into the show, yes, I'm gonna keep leaning into building this audience, but it's a conduit, right? It's about using it as a starting point that I have some really rich, relevant source content that yes, I can publish, but I can really ring it out, and I can use clips and I can use key takeaways, I can use the transcript, and I can use these things in different places, across different channels, and I can repurpose and reuse, and go back and use something that's relevant now that I recorded three years ago.
It's this thing that's not this crazy new idea, all of us are kind of talking about pieces of that all the time, but I don't know that until now, we've really been talking about it as a next step after that stage three of like, okay, cool, you've made this show, you've built an audience now, what? And then stage five is taking it that much further and saying, okay, what's about my show? And that was about my show to build the brand, and that was about my show to build the brand to really generate real measurable, like clear business impact. And so how is all of that turning into a really full fledged amplified marketing strategy that integrates with CRM, that bridges the gap between marketing and sales and CX to really drive clear measurable results?
And we have a couple of companies that are there, and it's pretty cool to see the results that they can see by focusing first, on this creativity and connection on a human level. I love the, well, I mean, all of that. I love all of that. There's a piece of it that I feel like the companies that are talking about now adding on a podcast, a lot of them talk about it as if they, many of them are understanding that when we go and we create a podcast episode that we're going to chop it up and use the content for other things, and we'll get some more value out of it.
But it feels to me like the mindset on it is still about, we got to create a show, and we got to build subscribers, and we've got to get, how do we grow the following? And it's about the show, the mindset isn't about, I mean, it is, right, they want their brand out there, but it's more about how do we get like a big audience, and how do we get the audience engaged? And I had a conversation recently with somebody that was talking about the same type of thing. And what I said was, if your show gets to that point where you have lots of subscribers and you've got a following, that's great, you've got an opportunity now to do something with it that can really launch the brand.
But in the meantime, it's not about the subscribers, it's about providing some content that can be consumed in a way that your blog post or your text post on LinkedIn or wherever is just not gonna have the same connection, the human connection that you were talking about. So I think if you approached it from, I'm gonna create a consistent number of episodes, not because we're gonna go out and try to grow an audience or try to grow subscribers, but because we're going to provide helpful, educational, entertaining content that's about our brand and the things we're doing in our brand, this is another way for people to learn about us and educate themselves on us. That that mindset seems to be missing. It's not there yet.
Not there yet, 100%. And that's why we're looking at as a maturity curve because it's a more mature way of thinking about it. And you rewind, I mean, I remember when we started CASTED three and a half years ago, and we were having conversations at that point about like, yeah, but podcasting for a business though, I just don't know if that's gonna be a thing, that's a thing that influencers do, I just don't really see it working. And that's why it's a wave.
We saw this wave coming and yeah, it was accelerated by the pandemic, but it was coming anyway. And we're not having those conversations nearly as much anymore. Like once in a while, people have been kind of about podcasting and it's like, come out into the post, go outside for a minute and just look around. And so that maturity is coming.
And those that are thinking more holistically about this content as part of a fully integrated content marketing strategy are right there. And it's those that are maybe a step behind, which is okay, it's okay, they'll get there. But just thinking about the show, you're right, it's just they're not there yet. But it's kind of funny because if you think about anything else, it's part of a fully integrated content marketing strategy, like nobody thinks about that with a blog or like anymore, it used to be like that with social media.
Like I've got to generate this community. It's all about my community on picture, social media platform. Is it still important to have a huge community on social media platform of choice? Yes, is it the thing anymore?
No, because people know now, brands know now that it's part of it. It's part of it. It all needs to work together. Yeah, I think what's interesting too, right, this concept of community.
And I think that there is today a little bit of a disconnect between growing the podcast and the following, which is different than growing the community, right? The way I see it, when you're talking about growing your audience for a podcast, you're trying to drive more subscribers, more listeners, right? And that's great. And that is of course part of it.
But I think that the other part that's missing is like, with the community aspect, it's more about an ongoing dialogue with that following. And that can be hard to do with podcasts, right? You don't want it to be just you talking at your audience. The community is much more about the engagement.
It goes both ways. And so one of the things that we're going to start experimenting with probably over the next couple weeks where we're excited to kick some of this office, trying to figure out how do we introduce live streaming into our podcast strategy as well? So then that way, there is an opportunity for people who are listening. Of course, the discovery of it still needs a little bit of work as do many podcast strategies.
The discovery of the distribution is going to be key. But with that live element, it would allow people more of a chance to engage with the people that they're often listening to or subscribing to. And so where do you see that fall on the maturity curve? Is that along with the, what is that?
Between stages three and four, growing the audience and building the brand? Or do you think that that's further along in the maturity curve? Maybe a little bit closer to the end. It's fine.
I would put it right there at stages three or four because it is part of growing the audience. But it is part of that transition into thinking about, yeah, it's about engagement. And it's not necessarily just about engagement with the show. It's about engagement with all behind the show.
And the people behind the show and the people listening to the show, it's about the people that make up both sides of that conversation. And yeah, I love seeing that. We actually do that, too. We have a live version of the podcast quite often.
We're actually going to do one soon with one of our Stage 5 companies that we're going to do a live webinar, record it. And then use that, not just straight up as here was the webinar as an episode now. But we're going to use clips of that to talk about what Stage 5 looks like as a narrative and tell a story. So it'll be two different, very different experiences of parts of the same conversation using different ways.
And I think that that's part of it, too, is because people have lots of different ways to engage and be entertained and educated, all from one place so that they can go deeper. And they can dig in further if they want to. I love that. And that plays so well into, in my opinion, why podcasts have become as popular as they are, is because most content, right?
And we can talk about content in forms of marketing B2B content or just content as whole, right? These content production companies, they're doing such a great job with all this production, with putting it out there. And so I think that is, of course, the other part of us is how businesses can continue leaning into this, how they can truly take the step from, this is a piece of our content strategy, to this is the pillar, right? And this is something that we're really trying to rally around to build an entire strategy around.
And so that's what I think so many companies are missing today is that, sure, it can work as an an ancillary piece of your strategy, but it really works best if you think about this as the pillar and figure out what pieces, like you mentioned, you want to kind of atomize and distribute, because with all of this wave that has come about, it's all about the on-demand content. Getting to Absorb It on your terms, when you want to, and so I think that what you just mentioned, creating a lot of different options and opportunities for people, it allows them to kind of self-select, how do I want to engage with this content? Maybe I don't want to spend the full 30 minutes to an hour listening to a podcast. Maybe I just want to ingest these micro pieces that I keep coming across, but at the end of the day, what's most important is that you're giving them, you're giving your followers your audience options and being able to absorb it on a cadence and in a way that I think is most comfortable and convenient for them.
Absolutely. It just fits. Oh, sorry, go ahead. I was going to say it can sound overwhelming and it can feel overwhelming, especially now in the Harvard recession times, the Harvard recession question mark.
We're all feeling the pressure to do more with less and it's marketer. That's the name of the game, it always has been, but now more than ever, it can sound like a lot. It's like, okay, well, now you want me to make this podcast and send everything and ring it out and use it across. But if you take a beat and you just think about it for a second, it's actually a lot more efficient and it's easier and it's simpler to start with this source content and then ring it out than it is to create net new all the time for every single channel.
It takes some shifting, but it is a lot more efficient. Totally. It also fits so well within how B2B buyers want to buy these days anyway. By the time they raise their hand and they say, I want to talk to sales, at that point, they want to have done as much research on their own as possible.
Nobody wants to talk to a sales rep until you're ready to buy. So if you can make your content available in different ways and provide ways for them to get to know you and connect with you on a human level, even if they haven't ever spoken to you or met you face to face, this is such a great way to do it. It just fits very, very well with how people want to buy. It's true.
If you follow Dave Gerhart on any of the social channels, he talks about this type of thing all the time of, what we were talking about earlier, of building a media company. You know, that is kind of the mindset behind this, of if you want to create demand, if you want to engage in audience over time and build brand affinity and all of the things that we talk about as marketers, then you kind of have to have a mindset of, I'm building a media company, I'm not creating a content, so I have something to post next week. It's more of like a way of life in our business versus the other. It's a thing.
It's not a thing to be a thing. Yeah. And it's interesting too, if I did hear how he used an example of someone and across many brands who has kind of gone through the maturity curve, he tells her some pretty great stories and we had an interview with him our very first season ever with the GASPOT podcast, talking about the classic example of stage one. He was like, I don't know, I just needed to capture a bunch of information from David Kinsl and I had a recorder and the more I recorded, the more I realized this could be a show.
Like, that's how it starts. But yes, going to the media company, those of us who have been big, need to be marketing nerds for years, have been hearing this for a long time about like the immediate company, are the brands of the future's media company? Any answer to yes. And this is not nearly a decade.
I mean, I've been hearing that, but it's coming to the surface again. And I think it's because we all know it and as humans, we experience it and the brands, whether it's media, V2C or anything, any otherwise, we as humans buy from the brands that we know entrust. And that's, that largely comes from media, that largely comes from content. And I think the reason that we're really seeing this resurgence of this conversation now, Kyle Boyer just posted about all like brands that are buying media companies or becoming media companies.
And I think that kind of the game changer now is that we're seeing, it's not just, like it's not a thing, it's the thing. It's not a thing that great brands are doing. It's not a thing that great brands are letting some marketers do. It is the CMO and the marketing leaders of now and in the future are media leaders.
And we see that with a lot of the brands that we work with. It's like, the series that I'm starting literally right after we record this is talking to marketing leaders and one of the questions I'm asking them, I was like, what's your background? Like, do you tell me more? Because there are so many great stories of people that were on this show or part of the series or a DJ or an actor or something like that.
And when you have that perspective of broadcasting and media and storytelling at the top, not as a thing, but as the thing, I think that we were really going to see this wave that we're talking about accelerate in a big way. Yeah, for sure. And there are so many, well, in B2B, there are not so many great examples yet. There are some that are getting there.
There's a company called CloudFlare that has been doing podcasting and different types of media for a while. They have a 24-hour, I guess you'd have to call it a, well, it's more than a network. It's a 24-hour selection of, I don't even remember what it is, 10 or 15 or 20 different channels of live content that all around the world, if you are interested in this particular type of content, there is something that's happening live from CloudFlare all the time. Like, that's obviously way advanced.
Like, they've been doing this for a while. Red Bull is one of my favorite examples because they started out with a product that tastes terrible and they are the market leader on it because they create amazing content. And now, it's not even just about motorcycle riders and surfers and skydivers wearing the Red Bull logo. They have great documentaries that Netflix is picking up.
And there's nowhere in there in any of those documentaries where they're talking about the value of their energy drink. Like, they're present in all the content. They're there, but they're building brand affinity by creating this amazing content that allows you to be a part of the brand for a long time. And then the next time you want something, some type of energy drink and you walk into the gas station to look for something, I mean, there it is.
They are the one that's so easy to remember. Well, and we all know this as marketers and even as humans at some level, but like the brands that really, really, really know who they're for and why they're doing it, who's it for and why are we doing it? Which again, bringing it all back to podcasting, that's where the best podcast really succeeds because it's not, you know, the show isn't for every business leader everywhere. Like, you have a really specific niche of people that this is for and then therefore who it's not for, but that means you're really, really relevant for who it's for.
And in exchange, those brands kind of tell their audience who they are, right? So it's with Red Bull, for example, why do you pick Red Bull over something else when all energy drinks, I agree with you, tastes horrible. It tells you a little bit about who you are if you partake in that brand, right? And you're right, consumer brands kind of have a leg up on that, but also it's like, yeah, but who are you as a marketer?
Right? Like, are you part of this circle? Are you part of this tribe? Are you in on this community?
For me, in HubSpot and Drift, like absolutely, as a marketer coming up, I wanted to be in on that. And a big part of that was their content and still is. It is definitely the mindset that you have to have about creating demand and building a company now. The human connection part is huge, just, you know, especially for a, if you are in a young startup and you've got this brand new product that has never existed before, you have a brand that has never existed before.
There's nobody coming into the new year with budget allocated towards your type of product because that type of product didn't exist and you're thinking about how do I create demand? How do I get people to trust us when we start, when people start engaging a little bit? This is such a great way to showcase the humanity of who we are behind the brand. 10 years ago, 15 years ago, when, I guess it was more like 15, maybe a little more than 15 now that when brands were really starting to get more involved in posting content and social channels, everything was about the logo, having lots of content coming from the logo.
But we realized over time that people really don't care about the logo, they want the people, they want to talk to the people. And so now it's for a lot of companies, they may not have as many followers as their employees do. And so the brand profile on LinkedIn or Twitter, wherever becomes a way of putting content out for their employees and partners and friends and the audience to distribute from there, this is really interesting how it's changed. And it's continued to follow that, how can I keep that human connection and be real?
Regardless of marketers are often distracted by or under pressure to be distracted by shiny objects, right? What's the next platform? What's the next thing? What's the next place we need to be?
It's important to say to have an opinion and to be hit to the, so what's happening? But the one thing that will always remain is human connection. Who's it for? Why are we doing it?
And what's the best way to build and maintain and strengthen those human connections? And that's not gonna be the same for everyone. But I can tell you one thing is that conversations are a big part of it. And capturing that on audio video, it's gonna look a little bit different as a brand, but it's a good idea for most companies.
It is, and I think that might be the understatement of the episode here that it's a good idea for most companies. But the common question that we get when we're talking to a lot of clients or other marketers is about this, the attribution question, right? We're all talking about the intent of why we're creating the content that we are. And for so many marketers out there, the intent is probably the part that is maybe a little bit off when they're thinking of it purely as a way to capture new buyers in market and find ways to turn that into into revenue.
It's off because it shouldn't be the primary intent. But at the end of the day, we're all in business because we want our companies to be successful, we want them to be profitable. And so it is a fair question to ask. And it is a very common question that's asked.
And it sounds like it's one that your company is in very much in a great position to help marketers and sellers do, is really prove out the value on a podcast, the return on the investment in some respects. And so I guess the question that I would have for you, not so much is how do you do that. But rather, the companies that you're seeing do it well. What do they have in common?
What are the commonalities between the companies that you are hearing or seeing their data that, okay, they are able to tie this back to close one revenue or even pipeline contribution. What is it about these companies that are having so much success and what can we learn from them? Yeah, well, one of the reasons that we mapped out and kind of ended up with the maturity curve was for that reason because we, the stage three companies, which again is the companies and the brands and the shows that are focused on the show, right? What are the audience audience audience audience?
How can I expand my reach? Which is great, but it's not the ultimate question to ask because expanding your reach does not equal generating revenue, right? Good, but they're not just synonymous, they're not the same thing. And so the companies that we see the greatest success with and that in our terms are these stage five companies are the ones that have advanced through that and said, okay, who's it for?
Why are we doing it? We have a great show, we know who it's for, we know it's not for how do we reach more of them? How do we get to stage three and reach more of that audience and engage that audience and then lift our heads up, look around and say, how do we, if we are engaging that audience that is not, just how do we create a great show audience, but how do we create a great audience that also should be interested in our brand? Then naturally, it's how do I use the great show content to drive more engagement across all channels with this audience that is also my ICP, right?
Which is also my ideal customer for my company. That's where the magic happens. And it seems like a small little thing or it seems perhaps audience to a lot of people, but it's not because if you get all these things we talked about earlier in the show, if you focus too much on that building a show, you can go astray and then it's like, oh yeah, but this is the path to more to a bigger audience for the show. And it's not going to necessarily generate more revenue.
And that's where we see brands getting frustrated and saying, I built this great show and I just can't prove the value and I just don't know what's happening and we're generating, we're dedicating all this time and money to it and it's not turning into business. It's like, well, because you're thinking about the show, not about how just like any other marketing initiative that you're doing, how is it actually going to generate pipeline, how's it actually going to generate revenue? And so the companies that we see that are seeing the greatest success have made that mindset shift where they are thinking a lot more holistically and therefore they're creating content that they know is going to matter to sales and to CX and to their audience. And then thanks to Gasted, shameless plug.
There's an integration with CRM that show how the data works there. But even if you don't, I mean, something even as non-tech reliant as self-reported attribution, same kind of thing. If you have that mindset of creating things that are going to actually drive sales, not drive subscriptions to your show necessarily, it could be the same thing. If you're focused on what's going to actually drive business, what's going to actually drive revenue, how can I actually engage this audience in a way that is going to intrigue them to be more engaged and more interested in being educated by our brand and trust our brand and what they can do for them.
It doesn't mean it's a commercial, it doesn't mean it's about the product, but it's that mindset shift where the companies that we're working with are actually able to say this show generated revenue. That's why, because they've come up, they've zoomed out from it and I know it's not about the show, the show is about this. And it's so funny how this stuff comes, sorry, Tori. No, I was going to say it ties back into a topic that we definitely hit on very consistently and we had a guest on a previous episode, Amanda Nativedade from Sparktorial.
And she's talking a lot these days about what she's calling the zero-click content, right? And that is, to me, where I see so much value in the atomization of this killer content of the podcast is in finding those clips and not necessarily creating the episode with the intent to have those clips, but rather finding the clips after the episode is recorded and saying like, how can we communicate some of the value from this episode and just put it right out there and for you for people to absorb. They're not gonna, if you put it out there on social, whether it be through paid social or organic, it doesn't require someone to click through and come to your website, right? It allows them to absorb the content, absorb the message where they are, right?
And that to me is what makes the best content. It's meeting your buyers, your audience, where they are and finding ways that you can offer that value without any expectation of something in return. Even something as little and trivial as a click to a website, if you just put that out of your head, put the clicks out of your head, put the revenue of the podcast, excuse me, the pipeline contribution out of your head and focus most on conveying that value and feed, trust that the rest will follow. And sometimes that trust is hard to get by and around companies and that's why I think it's so awesome that you all have seemingly cracked the nut on being able to tie back some of that CRM information to the content production.
But the starting point, I think, tying it back to your maturity curve, right? The starting point is the mindset and the intent that you've got going in when you're creating this content and it's not to drive sales. But if you do it the right way, then that's a nice byproduct that you can lately expect. And it works, yeah.
And it's about reusing the content you already have too. It's not even always about NetNew. It's about being as tuned into what's happening with your current and potential buyers to say, okay, what do I already have and what can I create that will help moving? Absolutely.
So I think we're getting to the point where we're gonna have to kind of wrap things up here. But Lindsey, how can people find more from you, from CASTID, I would expect that there's probably some type of podcast you wanna plug here, but I'll leave that to you. So yeah, tell us and for all those listening, how they can learn a little bit more about you and your company and everything else. Sure.
CASTID.US is a website that's where the maturity curve is and there's actually a self-assessment that you can take to understand where you are in the maturity curve and then get lots more information about how to accelerate through it. You're right, we have a couple of podcasts. Those are also there, we have a CASTID podcast, the Employee Marketing podcast. I'm really active on LinkedIn.
If you can figure out how to spell my name, you can find me there. And yeah, CASTID.US, my best friend. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us today.
This is a really fun conversation. Hopefully all those listening in are getting a couple actionable takeaways for how they can even think about or start actioning on their podcast, whether it be getting started or maybe doing things a little bit differently. But I personally have taken a couple notes here that I'm gonna go put into practice. So it was definitely beneficial for me here.
So hopefully our listeners are feeling the same way right now. So Lindsey, thank you, Matt. Thank you. This was a lot of fun today.
And for all those listening, until next time.