S2 Ep10- Building Confidence in Court: What is a SAW Group And Why Everyone Needs one? ft. Deputy Attorney General Lauren Guber, Fire Investigator Brian Fine, and Dr. Elizabeth Buck,

Send us Fan MailIn this episode, Scott and Chasity reunite in-studio after several remote recordings to discuss their recent activities and introduce a special panel discussion about the Scientific Advisory Work Group (SAW). Scott shares his excitement about getting accepted into OSU for a master's program, while the hosts debate the value of continuing education in fire investigation. They emphasize the importance of bachelor's degrees for investigators before diving into the main interview segment.The featured interview, recorded in Michigan, includes guest co-host Lauren Guber (a California Deputy Attorney General) along with Dr. Elizabeth Buck and Brian Fine (retired from the Texas State Fire Marshal's Office). They discuss SAW, a program that originated in Texas to improve fire investigation through peer review. The panel explains how investigators present cases to a diverse group of experts who then evaluate whether the investigation meets scientific standards. This constructive criticism helps investigators strengthen their reports and testimony, ultimately leading to more credible courtroom presentations. Brian shares how investigators initially dreaded these reviews but eventually began voluntarily submitting cases to showcase their improved work.The group discusses the challenges fire investigators face in court, particularly in Daubert states where scientific testimony is more strictly evaluated. Lauren explains how prosecutors must prove both that fire investigation expertise is needed and that the specific investigator is qualified to provide it. The panel emphasizes that maintaining credibility is crucial, as a poor performance in one case can follow investigators throughout their careers.Dr. Buck discusses efforts to expand the SAW program beyond Texas, having recently introduced it to Michigan with hopes of bringing it to California next. The episode concludes with the "Can You Use It in a Sentence?" segment featuring "hot gas layer" as the next term in their educational series, following previous explanations of "plume" and "ceiling jet." Scott and Chasity also address fan mail, including a question about Scott's recent court case and feedback about standardizing fire damage classification terminology.Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed the episode, give us 5 stars, hit the follow button, and subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and anywhere you are listening in from. Follow us on social media!Instagram: @infocusfire_podcastLinkedIn: INFOCUS podcastFacebook: INFOCUS podcastTikTok: @infocus_podcast