S2 Ep22: Desiree Stephens: Radicalizing White Women, and How We Bring More White Women to Anti-Racism Work

“White feminism is often about becoming equal to men, which makes you the leading oppressor across the globe. It leaves everyone else behind.”—Desiree Stephens I’ve been thinking a lot lately about how we bring more women—especially white women—into the feminist fold. And then, once they’re there, how do we get them to embrace an intersectional approach that acknowledges and tackles the entirety of supremacy culture? I think the answer begins and ends with community—building community, working through conflict, determining who in our community to support and prioritize. I brought my friend Desiree Stephens on the podcast to talk about how we build community across difference, how we recruit more women to the cause, and why things between Black women and white women so often break down. In this episode, we talk about:  Why white women often end up feeling so defensive and aggrieved in anti-racist spaces.  Why the closer proximity of white and Black women, as opposed to white men and Black women, fosters both conflict and opportunities for change. The notion that white women are in charge of social change while white men are in charge of systemic change.  Shame as a colonial construct, and how the cycle of shame often keeps white women stuck.  Why you cannot call yourself an ally—and why no one can attest that any person is a universal ally, or even a consistently reliable ally.  What Desiree means when she says to give white men grace (and why it’s not about overlooking abuse). What it actually means to say that there are no good white people, and how “goodness” is a creation of supremacy culture.  The link between mean girl culture and white supremacy.  How white women should respond to call-outs.  How leaving white supremacy can be similar to leaving abusive relationships.  Worth is inherent; access is earned.  About Desiree StephensDesireé B. Stephens, CSP-P, is a dynamic educator, counselor, and community builder dedicated to liberation through decolonization and whole-self healing. As the founder of Make Shi(f)t Happen and creator of the LIBERATE Framework™, she helps individuals and organizations dismantle systems of oppression, foster inclusive spaces, and embrace sustainable transformation.With a background rooted in trauma-informed care and intersectional approaches, Desireé specializes in wellness-centered, anti-harassment education and training. Her work spans personal growth, workplace equity, and community healing, offering tools that empower people to take actionable steps toward liberation.Desireé combines deep empathy with practical strategies, ensuring her teachings are both accessible and transformative. Through her Liberation Education Substack, seasonal circles, and workshops, she inspires changemakers to embrace introspection, dismantle oppressive systems, and build intentional, intersectional communities.Desireé’s passion for equity, reflection, and transformation is informed by her lived experiences and her commitment to co-creating a world where everyone can thrive. She believes in the power of rest, reflection, and intentional action to drive meaningful change—within ourselves and in the world around us.