S5 Ep13: Murder Sounds

Why hello, friends and enemies. Hello, five listeners. It's time for Perhaps It's You, your favorite, unofficial, unsolved mysteries rewatch podcast. Brought to you by BD Wong. Brought to you by BD Wong? I'm Liz. I don't know. It's really not. I don't know if I can say that. Is that libel or fraud or something? I should probably take that back. He doesn't give us money. We all claim he listens to our podcast, which is also not true. Yeah. That's what you call in the biz a bit. It's not true. That's just a joke that we find funny.

um hi everyone we weren't here last week because we were busy because we're important people with busy lives but we're back we're back i'm sure you missed us all with some unsolved mysteries content yeah people seem to really like the episode we released from the vault the forensic files it's what's funny about i didn't remember a thing about it yeah i remember i was looking through my computer at all of the old patreon episode files which i need to like get rid of some of those files take up a lot of my computer but i for some reason kept all the patreons and i was looking back at them and i was like wow i don't remember talking about i didn't remember we did an episode on hotel hell I don't know how you forgot that, but yeah, we did. I was very excited about it. That's the way I remember. That was one I insisted on. I think I have to go back and listen. I went back and I re-listened to our Chicken People episode, which is so amusing. But yeah, I didn't remember anything we had talked about in the Forensic Files episode. So I guess that's where we're at as a podcast. We've released so many episodes. I don't even remember some of the things we talked about, but people seem to really enjoy the Forensic Files. Great. Happy to help. Yeah, I asked the other day for some quotes because I was working on a coloring sheet and I thought maybe I'd put some in the zine. And people were submitting all this stuff that I was like, that's hilarious. Don't remember it at all.

Sounds like it's from a very funny show, though. I would love to listen to this program. What is it again? Oh, the one I make? Interesting. I do have a few updates on top of the show here. Thank you to everyone that sent in your five-star reviews after we got that mean old bitty review. Thank you. Canceled that out. We appreciate it. More than canceled it out. I think we got more good reviews than the one Karen review we got. So really appreciate that. Yeah, that might be my secret about talking about the bad reviews.

don't reveal our secrets that might bring in some good reviews there used to be i used to obsessively listen to the uh alternative radio station growing up in chicagoland area q101 and uh in the evening they would have a thing called the cage off where there's two songs you're supposed to call in vote for which one was the best right and uh every time they played bjork which i like bjork people would call in and be like ah this is terrible i hate it well i'm saying that made so many more people call in and say they liked it right so then she would end up winning Same logic. It's the same logic we're using here. We did get an email that was very angry about a typo on our website. I almost forgot about that, but that's happened since we last recorded. Okay, we need to discuss. Is that person a troll or are they serious? I really don't know. They both emailed us and then in less than 24 hours DMed us on Instagram saying, this is very important. I can't take you seriously with this typo on your website. Did you really not have anyone proofread it? Which, no, of course I didn't, bitch. What? What are you talking about?

Leave me and my mild dyslexia alone. Who cares? The feedback, this email and this DM, is that they're worded so seriously. There's almost no room for it to be a joke unless they're kind of bad at it. I'm not sure. It's so weird, though, that I'm kind of like, who does this? Who takes the time out of their day to email and then follow up on a different platform?

And you might think because I did post this on Twitter that someone was just like pulling my leg with the DM, but I didn't post the name of the person the email was from. Right. And the DM came from someone with the same name. So I do actually think it's the same person. OK, here's the email we got. Hi, this is my first time visiting your website. There is an egregious error on your front page. The Unsolved Mysteries quote should say someone somewhere. Your page says somewhere somewhere. How can you call yourselves Unsolved Mysteries fans and make an error like that? Do we call ourselves Unsolved Mysteries fans? I would like to say that we don't. We just happen to have this podcast.

Didn't you ask anyone to proofread your copy? Absolutely not. You think this is a much more serious operation than it is. Please fix this. I'm embarrassed for you. You're embarrassed for us. I will be checking back to see if it's fixed. They will be checking back. Is this the website police? Who is this? I didn't know there was a website police. Okay, let me find the DM. Lots of people, I asked for advice on Twitter. Lots of people are like, you could never change it. You could never fix it. You should probably underline it. You should add other typos. You should change it to someone, someone. That was a good suggestion. Yeah, yeah.

Where did this go? Is it still wrong? Or did you fix it? Oh, I haven't fixed it at all. Okay. I kind of think we shouldn't. Okay. Here's the DM. Hi. I mean, this is like not even 24 hours later. Like I get this email. I laugh. It's hilarious. I put it on Twitter. All these people give me hilarious responses. I kind of move on with my life. I just kind of don't do anything. Cause who cares? And then, then the next day I get this DM that says, hi, I emailed you, but nobody replied. There's a major error on your website. Perhaps it's you.com. The error concerns the unsolved mysteries quote. Your name is based on.

The quote on the website says somewhere, somewhere, instead of someone, somewhere. I hope you'll fix this because it really detracts from your website thing. Look, there's a lot of things that detract from our website and this podcast. I'm not sure that that typo is a big one. It has been up for literally years because I don't think I've changed that French page in like a long time. No one has ever said anything previously. I mean, maybe they noticed and they hated us and they just never looked again. I'm not sure. They unsubscribed immediately. They're embarrassed for us. To this DM, I just responded, are you for real? And they never.

said anything back so i don't know if they're for real i don't know if a typo really it made them embarrassed for us why what i don't know is this my homework even if it was my homework i don't think a teacher would be like you made a minor mistake i'm embarrassed for you like the other thing is that you know what it's trying to say like So. No, it's egregious. It's egregious. The fact that they said they were going to check back made me want to put a note, like put a footnote on the page that was like, hello, you know, this person's name. I hope you realize you're no longer allowed to listen to the podcast. Like, thanks for checking back. Please never listen again. Please. Yeah, please, please. Because you could absolutely be like, hey, I just wanted to let you know there's a typo on your website. I'm like, oh, shit. And I would have changed it. But if you're a total bitch about it, I kind of have to leave it there forever, forever and ever and ever. And if you listen to this podcast, you should know that would be my response. Please.

Right? Oh, this is so funny. I don't know if it's just like quarantine making people like on edge and typos are enough to just like set some people up. But I cannot imagine taking time out of my day to email. I almost never complain about things, even if it's like really bad. Right. I almost never take the time to complain. I cannot imagine emailing a tiny indie podcast about a typo, which is not like, like clearly, you know, okay, they were just like typing fast or whatever.

They're embarrassed for us. I'm sure I looked at it and I went, yes, that's correct. Yeah, because your brain puts things together, right? Like, that's why you can do those things where they take out half the letters in a word in a sentence and you can still read it because your brain can, like, put things together and make sense out of things that make, you know, that are slightly off. So, yeah, I probably read that front page of our website a hundred times. I went, looks great. Thumbs up to that. Yeah, I don't know. I picture the Muppets get upset about something. Like, I picture, like, Kermit the Frog getting upset about something and his, like, arms are just, like, flailing. That's what I picture this person seeing a typo and then just being like, ah!

Because it's so egregious. It is pretty egregious. How can we call ourselves Unself Mysteries fans? Well, we don't, but... I'm pretty sure we complain about the thing we're supposed to like. Pretty sure that's been established. And I don't recall ever calling ourselves that. We just literally happen to have this podcast. Yeah, so that's that piece of news. Sorry about our egregious typos. I wanted to give a shout out to Mara Jean, who sent us an amazing package that had been in the works for, oh, I don't know, two years. This is incredible.

I haven't seen it in person because of COVID, but Liz sent me a video and I'm quite impressed. Mary Jean crafted us 13 individual felt ornaments that instead of the 12 days of Christmas, it celebrates the 13 days of the apocalypse. Highlights such as a ghost in a bottle and a mothman and a heartbreak swindler. So step up your game, everyone else, because that's quite an impressive feat. Are we running out of space in the shadow box? Oh, I cannot put all those things up.

Yeah, I had to pick a selection. And I actually had to put up a shelf above the shadow box for the more three-dimensional items. This is how many gifts we get sent. This is how beloved we are. She also sent us some orange and lemon Kit Kats. Ooh, and some other candy. So next time I see you, I have not eaten them all. You will get some candy. I'm excited. Thank you, Mary Jean. You are the best. Yeah, that's pretty awesome. Okay, so we've addressed our website typo. We've addressed our reviews. Oh, the other thing was that the mystery solvers need to mark their calendars for July 13th because Samantha and I are having a sale on Instagram.

Perhaps it's your Instagram. We are going to be selling dog bandanas and cloth masks to support the East Lake Library damaged here during the rebellion. They could use some cash. So we are going to sell. Cool bandanas for your dog and also face masks for your face. Yes. And some of them may even match. I was working on some of them last night. We have some cool fabrics, some cool alien fabrics. We're going to be making dog bandanas in a couple different sizes. So depending on your size of dog, we might even have a cat size. There's a small size bandana from the pattern we've been using. I think we could probably swing a few cat bandanas or very small dog bandanas. Chihuahua size bandanas. Yeah.

Yeah. So that will be on the 13th. That'll be for sale through Instagram. You'll have to be on Instagram to claim things and then send us money through PayPal. Yeah. Makes sense. I'll post the rules for that at some point on Instagram, but it's pretty straightforward. And yeah, then we'll be raising some money for the library. So that's exciting.

Did we have any other updates? There is kind of a big one, and that is that Amazon no longer is streaming Unsolved Mysteries, at least for free. Is it still on there, but you have to buy it? Is that how that's working out? In some cases, yeah. Some episodes are available, but you have to pay for them, which is really unfortunate because that's how we've been watching Unsolved Mysteries and how I'm sure a lot of you are watching along with us. We don't know for sure, but we suspect it has something to do with the Netflix reboot, which is coming up this weekend or next week. Yeah. When's July 1st?

Oh, this weekend. Yeah, this week is tomorrow. So we have a feeling it might... I don't know if it's going to... The old episodes are going to move to Netflix? They haven't yet. I suspect, but I don't know. I'm not in the know. Yeah, I'm not. The Unsolved Mysteries producers have not kept us in the loop on this one. Yeah, they don't like us, I'm pretty sure. I sort of feel like Amazon is punishing us for all the times I've called them our evil overlords. Maybe that's it. But they heard we were depending on them and insulting them because, you know, they're evil. That's not my fault. They could run their business better.

But the good news is that you can still watch it for free on YouTube. As of right now, they're still on YouTube. And the episodes seem to match what it was on Amazon. So you can still find them on YouTube for free. If they come off YouTube and they don't end up on another platform for free, I guess we haven't exactly discussed what we're going to do. I personally feel uncomfortable. Not everyone is watching along with us. I'm certain of that. But some people are. And I don't like the idea of asking people to pay. I mean, we're not asking them to pay. We have no control over where Unsolved Mysteries streams their shit. I mean, we're telling them.

What happened? They don't have to watch it? I don't know. Yeah. Or do we just become a Kitchen Nightmares podcast? We have some options. We do have some options. And I think we are going to talk about the new episodes, but I think that's going to be on Patreon, and maybe we'll eventually release those from the vault. I assume you've watched the trailer. Yeah. Okay, I have a confession to make. I was not that excited about the reboot. I think it's because it didn't have a host, and I don't know. It sounded like the format was going to be weird, but I watched the trailer, and I'm feeling a small amount of hype. Not a lot of hype. The trailer is decent. I have to say, it doesn't sound like a very similar show.

Um, because it doesn't have a host and it's only doing one mystery an episode. And I was kind of like, well, that's just a different thing that you're also calling unsolved mysteries. Um, and the stranger thinks people are involved for some reason, I think just to like make it sound more now. But, um, yeah, it's interesting that there is an alien case, at least one. I was kind of thinking they weren't going to do that. I guess it makes sense that they will. I mean, it seems like they're trying to have at least some essence of the original in the reboot. I was pleasantly surprised though, to see that they are going to do a paranormal mystery. I realized that they were like, look, no one can compare to Robert Stack. Why even try? But it's kind of like.

that's just a different thing then yeah it's gonna be i mean it's a different thing anyway so you i don't know i feel like there's plenty of people that we've come up with some good suggestions and not just ourselves so i feel like they kind of slack a little bit uh yeah we're very cheap we'll see we'll see we'll give you an update on our thoughts i suppose i suppose since us being us huge unsolved mysteries fans um well yeah we can't call ourselves that no we can't given those egregious errors uh but for the moment at least you can watch it on youtube it does line up it is you know officially released by the owners which is film rise at the moment so it's not even bootleg um but yeah who knows what the future holds that was definitely a moment where i was like huh we've really not put a good long-term planning This started on a whim and it just keeps rolling down a hill. But yeah, I don't know. It's actually, you know what? It's out of our hands. Yeah, there's nothing we can do about it. I mean, so if you tune in next week and we're Kitchen Nightmares podcast, I don't know what to tell you. It's just the way things work out. Perhaps it's you that's watching Kitchen Nightmares, the Kitchen Nightmares podcast.

And then everyone is just us going, wow, that food looks gross. Everyone, yeah, literally. Everyone is like, wow, they should have really cleaned. They knew Gordon Ramsay was coming. They couldn't clean out their fridge. That's dumb. Have they ever watched the show? Wow, Gordon Ramsay's shirt is really small. That would just, every episode would be much more similar, but all the dogs are back from their walk. Hi, dogs. All right, so we are on episode 13 of season five. Lucky 13. Yep. And I have to say, the opening of this episode is like perfect. Robert Stack is in the woods in a trench coat, and it's like glowing blue, like mysterious blue fog is just.

puffing up from the the ground yeah i don't know a classic couldn't be more unsolved mysteries if i tried so um our first case in this episode is a mysterious legend which is a little bit weird because it's a real person who died uh but it's the black dahlia so this is the case of elizabeth short she was found dead at 22 and nude and mutilated and was like huge you know newspaper sensation i'm sure you've heard uh at least a little bit about this case um it's come up in pop culture a lot uh so the reason she was referred to as the black dahlia is because she had black hair and a penchant for wearing black dresses and lingerie And her exotic flower tattoo, as Robert Stack points out. Oh, yeah. She supposedly had a flower tattoo on her inner thigh. Is that a Dahlia tattoo? I know almost nothing about this case. You know what? Don't know. Probably should have looked that up. I mean, it's not the most important detail. Unfortunately, she was found severed in half, gutted, and drained of blood. So that's part of what makes this case mysterious, is that it doesn't seem like just anyone could have committed this murder. It seems like it took some surgical precision.

And this is also one of those cases where the passerby who found her remains thought it was a discarded store mannequin. But part of also what's concerning is that... her mouth was like cut more open like she's smiling more what's sometimes referred to as that Glasgow smile where you like cut into the cheeks like the Joker it's very gross um so she had moved to Hollywood in hopes of becoming an actress but you know what that doesn't always work out and she had supposedly turned to sex work I don't know if that's like actually confirmed or it's just I was wondering if that's substantiated or if that's just because she was she liked to wear she had a penchant for wearing lingerie as Robert Stack told us and then people just made up rumors about her I was like Robert Stack how do you know that hmm hmm um Yeah, I meant to look more into this and just didn't have time because I'm a bad podcaster. So who knows? Probably someone, but not me. They say that her last days were shrouded in mystery, and it seemed that she was constantly on the move. She was last seen at a diner in San Diego, leaving with an unidentified man she referred to as Red. So some people suspect that that was her sometimes boyfriend, Robert Manley, who was a hardware salesman. But he was brought in for questioning and was cleared of involvement in the crime.

Other men that she knew were brought in and they were also cleared. We hear a lot in this episode from Lawrence Shrubb. Is that really his name? Lawrence Shrubb? I think so. Okay. He has like the worst mustache ever. His mustache doesn't touch his lip. His lip is the same color as his skin. It's like perched on top like the cap of a mountain.

This is another mustache that I swear he knew he was going on TV. He started to give it a trim and he goes like leaving it out too far and it's up too short. And it's not like. Yeah, I have an eyebrow like this right now. It's not like John Waters thin. It's not supposed to be thin. It's like bushy at the top and then just like stops. It's unsettling. It does not go all the way to his lip. I called it the no thanks. Like if I saw someone with this mustache, I would immediately not take them seriously. And I sort of feel like that's how I felt about all of his. You don't call it testimony. I don't know. He doesn't really have. Is this the main investigator?

I don't know. He's just some dude, I think. He's even involved in some way. But he didn't really add anything. Maybe they just really don't know much about what could happen to her. But it seemed like everything he said was just speculation. Oh, it totally is. So there's a few main suspects that people think killed the Black Dahlia. I also got a little bit annoyed that he kept referring to her as the Dahlia. I was like, her name was Elizabeth Short. And she was a person. And not just this weird pet theory of yours. But they have Lawrence on because he is the person that thinks that the killer of the Black Dahlia is the same person as the Torso Slayer.

Oh, that's right. The investigator was Elliot Ness. Yes. So we've already talked about the torso slayer on the show because of this Elliot Ness connection. And obviously they want to talk about Elliot Ness because Robert Stack fans from the Intouchables are tuning in going, we want more Elliot Ness content. And so they were like, good. Guess what? This one guy thinks that this person that killed Elizabeth Short and the person that killed all these people in Cleveland, both of whom had some surgical precision aspects, they were probably the same person. So he's on, I guess the mystery is like whether or not this guy's theory is true.

I don't know enough to even really say whether I think it's true or not. I mean, there are some similarities, which they point out, but there's also some differences, which is kind of like the gist of, like, well, there's some things that are the same and some things that aren't. Yeah, yeah. So we see a reenactment that during the investigation, the murderer taunted the police with letters and at one point sent a package of Elizabeth Short's belongings that included her birth certificate, her social security card, and her address book. And supposedly her address book was her...

trick book of all of her sex work clients but one page is ripped out so there's a theory that that page contains the killer's name but it also could have just been someone who's embarrassed or i don't know maybe she got mad at someone and she was never gonna talk to them again and she ripped that page out coffee on it there could be so many reasons yeah that's kind of not really evidence um something interesting about it is those items have been soaked in gasoline to eliminate fingerprints okay so so they talk about a couple suspects the main one they talk about is the torso killer the torso slayer um but they also talk about Dr. Walter Bailey, who knew Elizabeth's older sister, Virginia. It is theorized that Dr. Bailey's degenerative brain disorder, which which symptoms included homicidal behavior. Huh.

I don't know if that's true. This is what Unsolved Mysteries Wiki is telling me. Never heard of a brain disorder that makes you a murderer. But okay. What they do know about Elizabeth is that before her murder, she was short on cash and always moving. She may have contacted Dr. Bailey. Who knows, though? A surgeon who specialized in liposuction, hysterectomies, and amputations. We know that Elizabeth wasn't shy about asking for money, and she often tried to gain something through a sympathetic sob story that her husband had died in World War II and that she had miscarried. While she did have a lover who died at war, she was never pregnant, supposedly.

Walter, this doctor, had a son who died in a car accident. And it is theorized that since he was a doctor, he saw through Elizabeth's lie and acted in a fit of rage. See, this is all just made up. This is just like... This is why none of the... I mean, you could guess about anything. This is like if you've ever taken a creative writing class and they write like one sentence prompt on the board and then you're supposed to come up with a story. It's just like, okay, Elizabeth Short was murdered, possibly by a doctor. And it's like, well, this doctor specialized in amputations and his brain made him a murderer. Like, you're just making it all up. Who knows?

And his birthday is the day before Elizabeth's body is found. Like he killed her for a birthday to himself? What does that prove? Samantha, like you've never done it, please. Please. Let thou who is without sin cast the first stone.

Okay, I seriously did not read this Unsolved Mysteries wiki before we started because I'm a professional and I fucking love this detail of why this guy is probably the killer. It is rumored Walter Jr. likes clowns. Okay. Which explains the Glasgow grin. Guilty. Does it? Does that really explain it though? As someone who is scared of clowns, I say yes, that's evidence. That's hard evidence. Bring that to court. Okay, they didn't really talk about that in Unsolved Mysteries at all. I don't remember that detail.

No. What they mostly talked about was the torso slayer of Kingsbury Run. Okay. So the speculatory evidence suggesting Elizabeth was a victim of the same killer that was investigated by Elia Ness. So he had a few names. He was the butcher of Kingsbury Run. He was the torso slayer or whatever. But he killed a dozen people between 1934 and 1938, often hacking bodies into small pieces, disposing of their heads. Many of the heads were never found.

His victims were mostly sex workers and drifters. I mean, vulnerable people are usually the victims of these sort of serial killers. And the victims disappeared in a similar fashion to Elizabeth. What does that even mean? They disappeared. Like, that's not special. However, in December of 1938, the torso slayer allegedly sent a letter claiming he had moved to California and that he had already killed a woman there. He claimed that her head was buried in southwest Los Angeles. Elizabeth's body would be found in the same area eight years later. In the letter, he referred to himself as DC or Doctor of Chiropractic.

Okay. Another connection to the cases is that both Elizabeth and the Torso Slayer's victims have been thoroughly cleaned after death. In fact, brushed bristles were found embedded in Elizabeth's skin. However, okay, so they talked about how Elizabeth's body was like meticulously cleaned. Like her hair was washed. Yeah, she was scrubbed so hard with a bristle brush that there were bristles in her. That's not really true of the Torso Slayer's victims. Like they were cleaned, but they weren't like, I don't know, not to that extent.

The Torso Slayer's victims were held captured, tortured, and tied up prior to being killed. Sexual elements in both cases are believed to be similar. I mean, the main difference is that Elizabeth Short is not decapitated. However, not all of the Torso Slayer's victims were decapitated. So is that he didn't have time? Is that his MO changed over time? They also talk about, the other suspect they talk about, who was Elliot Ness' pick of who he thought was the Torso Slayer, was a man named Francis Sweeney. And I think we already talked about this the last time we talked about it. But he was...

the cousin of a politician. He had been to middle school school and was actually given two polygraphs by Ness that he failed. But again, whatever. He admitted himself into a mental institution and often sent Ness taunting postcards. I don't know that they actually know for sure that he's the one that sent those postcards, but the killings did abruptly stop after he was admitted to the mental institution. But because he checked himself in, he was allowed to check himself out. And I'm not sure it's clear where he ended up after that. Apparently one postcard did refer to sunny California and had the phrase felt bad for operating on his guinea pigs, but science must progress.

Okay. I don't like that, but I'm not sure. Samantha, do you believe in science? i'm not sure if i'm doing science uh but none of this directly no it's anyone anything it is definitely speculation i think there's a tendency to connect these famous cases to other famous cases or other famous key people like you see that a lot in jack the ripper speculations that oh it was this royal person or it was the same killer who did like i don't know there's more than one killer there's not one super killer that just goes around the world killing everybody that was gonna be my question is like in the past weren't there serial killers around every corner you know like Samantha was like, everybody had this brain problem that made them a murderer, right? Yeah, that's science. That's science. They were like, okay, well, could there have been two serial killers in the area? One that decapitated and one that didn't? I mean, it makes as much sense as anything else if we're literally just guessing. They're in totally different parts of the country. I mean, even if you're saying that guy moved to California, there's eight years until Elizabeth Short is murdered. Did he just not murder anyone for a while?

I think this is a case that's gotten a lot of attention because it was sensationalized in the press at the time. But I don't think there's really a lot of hard evidence to go on. So it's just a lot of theory. There's one more theory here on Unsolved Mysteries Wiki that I don't think they talked about on the show at all, which is Dr. George Hodel. And that Steve Hodel is a retired Los Angeles homicide detective who argued in his 2003 book, The Black Dahlia Avenger, that he believed there was evidence that the murderer of the Black Dahlia was his father, Dr. George Hodel, a Los Angeles physician who was a prime suspect.

Although he was not publicly named at the time. Hoto believes his father actually tortured, murdered, and dissected Elizabeth in the historic Soden house. This location has been investigated on ghost hunters and haunted encounters who believe that Elizabeth's spirit is still in the house. That also seems like based on nothing. And also this guy kind of perversely wants to connect himself to this brutal crime. And probably cash in on it. Are you making your house a tourist attraction? I mean, I don't know that he owns that house, but he's definitely selling this book saying, my dad's the killer. Yeah. Which I'm assuming his dad is dead. Otherwise, that's like really awkward.

Thanksgiving dinner, you're across the table. That'd be a hilarious Father's Day present, though. It's like, Dad, I have been working on something. I haven't told you about it, but it's hitting the press tomorrow. Check out my new book, Black Dahlia Avenger. Oh, good for you. Wait a second. Wait a second. I'm not a murderer. I suspect there's more than one person with some medical training that...

it was a killer also do they have to have had medical training because you just have been a sicko with a sharp knife yeah it seems like something you could practice also medical training used to just literally be like you read some books and declared yourself a doctor like it it wasn't hard people used to be really impressed if you had read a book that was not the bible so being a doctor was like i bought five books and read them and then people were like oh my god what a genius he should cut off my leg so i don't know what to make of any of this i I feel like it's something that you definitely lose sight of the victim in because it's been such a sensationalized thing. And the thing that comes to mind the most is how much this, and I can't stop thinking about it as I was watching the reenactment, how this just got thrown into American Horror Story, so unnecessary in the first season, where they're like, oh, and also this house is haunted by the Black Dahlia. And you're like, since when? What? Since when? Why is that coming up almost at the end of the season? I don't know. Poor Elizabeth Short. Yeah, for real. Yeah, I don't know.

all right next we have a bummer of a last love oh man this last love is brutal this is so brutal okay the real mystery of this is not where these children it's why is this woman such a fucking bitch That is the real mystery. That's what I wrote down. We are looking for Eric, Glinda, and Keith Nickerson, who are the siblings of Brenda Merrill Miller, formerly Brenda Nickerson. Like I said, this is a lost love. We're looking for some siblings. Brenda Merrill Miller of Lawrenceville, Pennsylvania, is searching for her siblings, Eric, Glinda, and Keith Nickerson. What happened was that when she was 16, on an afternoon in September 1961, her mother, Betty Nickerson, just decided to move out. They lived in kind of a ramshackle farmhouse in...

Lawrenceville. It seemed like it was in the woods quite a ways from town. And the segment opens with, it's almost winter. There's kids everywhere. There's five kids total, plus Brenda. So there's six of them. And her mother's just like, peace out, bitch. I'm going to get a job in town. If you want these kids to eat, you have to drop out of school and take care of them. Yeah, she was just like, I bought a restaurant in town. I'm going to go do that. And was this, I'm going to go work this restaurant to support my six children? No! She was like, I've done the kids thing for a while.

didn't really go the way I wanted. I'm going to try my new dream, owning a restaurant, which apparently was like successful. And she still kept all the money for herself. She's like, you're 16, right? Plenty old. You can take care of five children by yourself with no income. See you, see you never. Winter is coming. Like the 16 year old suddenly has five mouths to feed plus her own. Her mom's like, peace out. I'm out of here. If you were pitching this to like a publisher. You'd be like, but why though? And she's like, I don't know. She's just had enough. She just snapped. She never wanted children. I'm not really sure. She just one day is like, enough is enough.

I'm done with this. I mean, I think it really demonstrates not everyone should have children. This is not the life for everyone, particularly this stone-cold bitch. What a terrible person. Yeah, so at the age of 16, Brenda became essentially the mother to Glinda, Keith, Butch, Linda, and Eric. I'm so tired just thinking about that. I can barely take care of myself in the woods with no money, no access to food, except like what I grow in the garden.

even really sure how they ate throughout the whole winter okay she was going out and killing small game which i'm not sure she really knew how to do she was growing things in their garden and then occasionally her mom's boyfriend would bring them food from her restaurant yeah her mom couldn't even be bothered to do it i think her mom's boyfriend which who's dating that woman what a piece of work uh was like oh i feel bad for those kids that are probably starting i'm gonna go bring them some soup it's so horrible all right they ranged in age to two to nine the oldest son butch was deaf and other than brenda none of them had been to school I see no challenges here. Easy peasy. Despite the fact that her business was thriving, Betty never visited them. Brenda, however, tried to make the best of this horrible situation. And actually, oh, it wasn't her mother's boyfriend. It was Brenda's boyfriend that would go, oh, what?

worse! The other 16 year old has to be like, those kids gotta eat. I'm gonna go down to that restaurant and demand the leftovers. Brenda's boyfriend, I can imagine him just marching in and being like, your kids need to fucking eat. You're making food in this thriving restaurant. Yeah, so he would occasionally bring them food. Oh my god. What kind of food do you think they had at that restaurant? I'm sure it was bland as hell. I was like, there's no way that woman made good food. I don't believe it for a second.

So Brenda supplemented their meals with vegetables she grew from the garden. Along with making food, Brenda did the dishes, washed the children, washed their clothes, did all the things that a normal mother would do. Brenda is... When we say wash the clothes, is she washing them in a giant bucket with a washboard? I assume so. Oh my God. I assume she's eating water over a wood stove and like all the children have to share the same bath water. I'm sure this seems like a hard life for a 16 year old. I would rather die. Yeah. So Brenda is interviewed for the show and... So normal. Yeah. So well adjusted considering.

And she'll be like, I was mad at my mom then. And I was like, no shit! You didn't put out a hit on her. I'm shocked. So when winter came, Brenda was forced to hunt small game for food. Memories of her old life haunted her later on for obvious reasons. Yeah, she was lonely. She didn't get to go to school anymore. She didn't get to see any of her friends. Yeah, that's where her boyfriend lived.

She was like, once you stop going to school, you lose touch with people. And so it was just me and these kids. And I was their mom. And she said that she actually found comfort in her siblings. And there was a routine. She would feed them and wash them and put them to bed and sing them songs. And she said it felt like a normal family, which is sad. But I mean.

It was. They were making the best of a shitty situation. In early spring 1962, the children's fuel ran out. So they had made it through this entire winter. I'm sure Brenda was freaking chopping down trees for a wood-burning stove. And she said that she had heard somewhere, someone told her, that if you put a tire in your fire that you would get really good heat. So they were running out of fuel. It's spring, so it's still pretty cold. So she went outside and she cut the children's tire swing out of the tree, chopped up the tire. She's desperate at this point. And she put it into the wood stove and she said, boy, did I get heat.

She actually started the house on fire. Yeah. Yeah. So the whole second floor became engulfed in flames. She was able to get all the children out safely. And she says now that it was a blessing in disguise because at this point she's like, well, now my mother has to step up and has to take responsibility for these children because we have nowhere else to go. I'm 16. I have no job. The house burned down. So reluctantly, Betty took her children in. Betty's boyfriend, though, believed that the three youngest children were actually Brenda's kids. I don't know why.

I don't think Brenda was really around, but I don't know why. I think Betty either told him that or just let him think that. Yeah. Because she didn't want responsibility for them. So she, Robertson calls it farms them out. She starts selling them or just like giving them away. Yeah. Anyone who wanted a kid for any reason, she would just hand them over. I don't know. But a few weeks later, Brenda and her boyfriend married and moved to Corning, New York, which was 20 miles away. They did take Eric, one of the siblings with them. But I think they were hopeful at this point that Betty would finally have stepped up to the plate and take care of these kids. I mean, it's not like she couldn't.

take care of them she had a thriving business yeah uh but yeah like i said she soon quote started farming them out uh betty sent linda to live with a family across the street butch was enrolled in a school for the deaf glinda and keith were sent to live with an acquaintance of betty's um I don't know what the purpose... I think these people were just like, hey, we'd like a kid maybe to do some work for us? Yeah, I'm assuming they wanted work done. They were getting kids to chop wood or some shit. I don't know the exact ages of Glenda and Keith, but they were quite young in the reenactment. I don't know how much work they could actually do, but I guess if they were free kids, maybe then they didn't care? Not sure. But a week later, Brenda and her husband decided to take Eric to visit Glenda and Keith. When she got there, she was horrified by their living conditions. The room they were in was dirty and infested with cockroaches. They didn't have a bed. They were both sleeping on blankets on the floor.

if you think of how bad their living conditions were in that farmhouse for her to come in and be like, well, this is unacceptable. Like that's gotta be pretty bad. Yeah, I think it was. Brenda immediately took them to, took them out of the house. There's a minor scuffle in the reenactment where the woman that was keeping the children threatened to call the police. And she was like, go ahead, I'll show them the cockroaches they're sleeping in. And then they allowed them to take the children away. Betty and her boyfriend. So Brenda immediately took them to Betty and her boyfriend demanding that she take responsibility for the children. And then she finally.

What did she call her mother? She called her mom a name. She was too busy going over town. Yeah, I forgot. Something that was like implying she was slutty. Yeah, instead of taking care of her children. And then her boyfriend like rears back to strike Brenda. But Brenda says, don't you hit me. These aren't my kids. Just so you know, these are my mom's kids, not mine. And he gets upset because he's been lied to, I guess. He's been lied to and I don't know.

I'm sure he seems like he's probably just as much of a trash person as she is. I don't know that he would have been like, oh, in that case, we should have taken care of him. Well, if he likes Betty, I don't know that he'd be that great. No, I don't think so. So Betty and her boyfriend notified the child welfare department and Glinda and I think they had they told Brenda that they were going to keep them. But then after she left, they called the child welfare department and just like handed them over to foster care. Not sure. I don't want my kids anymore. Here you go. And then a week later, I assume as a result of this call, Brenda was forced to turn Eric over to foster care as well.

Which is heartbreaking. Which she didn't want to do. No, she thought of all of them as her children, you know, in a way. She couldn't take care of five, but I think she understandably expected her mother to take care of her own children. But she had Eric and was happy with him, and they took him away, which is really super sad. He was the youngest. So she never saw any of them again. Two years later, his foster home was torn down, and the family disappeared.

30 years later, Brenda was reunited with Linda and Butch, and they are interviewed for Unsolved Mysteries. They're really cute. They're sitting around a table looking at old scrapbook photos of their siblings from when they were all together. But Eric, Glinda, and Keith are still missing, and they hope that they can find them. They also hope that their other siblings could make peace with Betty if they can. It sounded like Betty was in a senior living facility. Yeah, I was like, when you say senior living facility, I hope you mean a ditch by the side of the road.

She doesn't deserve an ounce of kindness. Certainly not from the children she abandoned. No, she can go live in a cave by herself with a noose. So this case first aired in December 9th, 1992. For unknown reasons, Glinda was not mentioned in the update, although whoever wrote this Unsolved Mysteries Wiki presumes that she was found because this is solved. We don't get to see the, we get to see, I think, like a few clips of a reading. Yeah. But not as much as I would normally want. But it is solved. An hour after the broadcast, a man named Keith Robinson of Hornell, New York, called the telecenter and identified himself as Keith Nickerson. That night, he and Brenda spoke on the phone. He told her that he had the same photograph of himself that was aired during the broadcast and described it exactly. Wouldn't that be so spooky?

Yeah. See, like a photo of yourself from a child. At that point, she knew that he was her missing brother. And then on December 19th, 1992, Keith and his family traveled to Montour Falls, New York, and was reunited with Brenda, Linda, and Butch. However, the reunion was bittersweet because Eric was still missing. However, five weeks after the update was filmed, Eric was also found. His name is now Richard Moore, and he lives in Tulsa, Oklahoma, with his wife and two children. In February 1993, he was reunited with Brenda and Linda after more than 30 years of separation. Brenda's long-lost search for her siblings is finally over.

This is like such a moving one because it's such a bad situation. So bad. And Brenda, to be a mother to five children and get them through a winter in the woods and then to have to fight for her mom, take care of her kids, and then they all just take it away from her. She's been with 30 years never seeing them again. Yeah. What the fuck? I hope they all got so much therapy. And yeah, I hope that the reunion was satisfying for them and hope them see that, you know, it had nothing to do with them. Their mother's just horrible.

Yeah. Yeah. Which, as a child, you're never going to think that. You're going to assume that you did something wrong. But what a terrible, terrible woman Betty is. Well, I'm happy they got reunited. Yeah. Man. That's a good one. But it's a lot. I did end up calling Butch's mustache the Chuck E. Cheese. I don't know. The Chuck E. Cheese? It just kind of reminded me of that mouse. Is there a photo on the Unsolved Wiki? The mouse. Let me see. You know the Chuck E. Cheese mouse? Okay. I can see it.

It kind of reminded me of that. That would not have been the first thing that came to my mind, but now that you mentioned that. I was kind of loopy watching this. I feel like there's not a clear connection. Don't look for one. Okay. But that's not MVM. MVM's coming up. So our next case is an unexplained. It's a ghost story. And Robert Stack wants you to know that some ghost tales, no matter how unbelievable, are just too good to pass up. Which is his way of saying, this is fucking bullshit, but stay tuned.

And he calls this story where fact, history and fantasy all come together to tease the imagination. Well, well, well. OK, so this takes place in the 1870 South Dakota Gold Rush town of Deadwood, which is famous for being where Wild Bill Hitchcock was shot and where Calamity Jane, quote, practiced her trade in a house of ill repute. Specifically, it's about starting in 1876. The town hired a lawman for the first time who was Sheriff Seth Bollock. And the reenactment shows that apparently he would maintain law and order just by going around glaring at people. You could just give them a look and it would make them stop doing crimes. Yeah, there's like a fight about to break out in a saloon and he just like...

pops those saloon doors and is like what's going on in here and he glares at them and they just stop and i was like that's all it took wow this town does not seem that out of control if it can be controlled by glares but um we can defund the police we just go around glaring at people see yeah uh definitely the reenactor of sheriff bullock is mvm his mustache is gigantic and i called it the champion weasel It is an impressive mustache. It's really quite huge. So then we get a reenactment of him becoming friends with Teddy Roosevelt. He's like, I don't know, riding on the outskirts of town and comes up on these people he thinks are cattle wrestlers that are camping. And it turns out that it's Teddy Roosevelt and some other people. And they became really good friends. He even went to like Teddy Roosevelt's inauguration for president. And so I'm like.

you know, I don't know, friend seat. You can see him in photos. I kind of suspect these two men were in love because after he died, Bullock had a memorial erected to him outside of town. It's like pretty large. I don't know. Samantha, when I die, are you going to go to the outsource of town and build a giant stone tower? Yeah. Oh, okay. Well, he called it the friendship tower. No, I get those vibes as well. And honestly, I like it. I think we should run with the story. I just...

It's a big declaration of love, whether that raw love was platonic or romantic, I don't know. But when Bullock died, he made sure that his grave site was overlooking the monument. What do you want your monument? Do you want like a Mothman booty? No, that's for you. That's a really good question. I guess...

Okay, you know in Animal Crossing, how you can, there's certain items you can give like a pearlescent finish to. There's like a shell. No one is going to understand this reference unless they play Animal Crossing. There's like a shell fountain that you can make like pearl colored. That's what I'm imagining your statue being like that pearlescent color. Yeah.

I always thought it was incredible, like in the aughts and like Paris Hilton's height of fame. She had like a life-size statue of the little mermaid by her pool. And I was like, that's how you should spend money. Great choice. So maybe that. So Seth Bullock also owned a hotel, which at least at this point that this Unsolved Mysteries segment was made was still standing. And that at least 30 ghost sightings had ever been reported.

um in the hotel and the manager of the hotel says we feel that we're not alone here so the examples of the ghost sightings is someone seeing a shadow of a man but then they turn around and there's no one there there's unusual noises and then bar stools get moved which doesn't happen so often in unsolved mysteries so many bar stools get moved or chairs and restaurants get moved anyway someone that worked in the restaurant once went in the back and then saw a figure in western attire and then ran out very scared and then ended up waiting because he was so scared so the general assumption and this is the ghost of seth bullock um and then the story takes an unusual turn a very unsolved mysterious turn where we end up 5 000 miles away in dorsa england where a psychic named sandy bullock gets a message from beyond the grave and he originally thought this was like some ancestor of his trying to get in touch with him because they have the same last name and he kind of was like who cares but then he found out that this was actually a dire warning for deadwood And he supposedly gets this message because the ghost of Sheriff Bullock tells it to a Native American guide who tells it to him. Yeah. Look, I'm just relaying that information. I'm not endorsing it in any way. And the message that was considered like extremely urgent was that Deadwood should expect a period of lawlessness in 1993.

Okay. So he wrote the owners of the hotel. And at first reading the letter, the owners were like, whatever, this is just some quack. But he did mention that Seth wasn't currently haunting the hotel during to quote all the banging, which the hotel was being renovated. And he also said like, oh, but when you're done renovating, the ghost will be back and you'll know it's quote old Seth. And that was apparently the owner's like pet name for the ghost. It was like an inside joke with her aunt or something. So she was like, oh my goodness, this letter is real.

So this information gets into the hands of a local journalist who wants to explore it further. And she's like, I'm going to treat your story with the utmost respect. But here's the thing. Lots of people are going to think you're full of shit. So can you prove to me that you're actually in communication with this ghost? And what he said was, she like asked something like, who was he famously friends with? Which I feel like is too much of a question that someone could have looked up. But she even said, she's like, I kind of had a feeling at first that he had just read a book about Deadwood and was now pulling my leg.

Yeah. Is this not in a book about Deadwood? I feel like she should have made friends with Teddy Roosevelt. Should have picked a harder question. Is that obscure? I don't, it doesn't seem like it would be. She was like, there's no way he could have known. I was like, really? But he said that even though the trees blocked the view of the grave to the monument, their ghosts still met in the afterlife. And apparently, you know, since this monument has been erected, these pine trees have grown tall enough that you can no longer see the monument from the grave, which was originally intended. So this like blows her mind. And she is convinced that the psychic is real and the ghost is communicating with him.

So she's convinced that this means that the psychic is for real, partly because he's so far away in England. And I was like, do you think no one from England has ever visited Deadwood and could know any of the shit about the hotel or trees growing or like... Or just wanted to learn about the Wild West and read some books. Yeah. I was not nearly as convinced as this woman was, though the psychic guy seems perfectly pleasant. I'm not out to like besmirch him, but...

I don't know. I wasn't so like one over either. Yeah, that's pretty much it. Let me see if Unsolved Mysteries Wiki has anything extraordinary to say. Oh, guess what? This is Unsolved. No, you can also see this hotel featured on Ghost Adventures. All right, we have one more. Get ready for biker looks, everyone. We got some biker looks in this. This is a missing person, I believe. We are looking for Dede Rosenthal. 32-year-old therapist Dede Rosenthal was last seen on Friday, February 22nd, 1991, when she left work at the...

elwyn institute she was reported missing on february 25th after she did not report to work when investigators arrived at her apartment they found that the front door was unlocked and that the sunday paper was untouched inside there were no signs of robbery or a struggle but they did find her purse with all of her belongings in it like her car keys her wallet um and her cat was outside yeah that was sad so the whole the mystery here is very unsolved mysteries it is did she run away to start a new life is she out there wandering around with amnesia Leaving her car, her beloved cat that she apparently took everywhere, all of her possessions. Her family's interviewed for the show and they say there is no way that she would have left her cat outside. She loved this thing and brought it everywhere. She wouldn't just leave it to fend for itself. Can you imagine starting over your life literally with nothing? You don't take any clothes. You don't take your toothbrush. You literally go out.

with whatever you're wearing sometimes these people don't even have their purse and the police are like oh maybe they went to start a new life it's like with what with what money with what yeah how i don't understand like are new lives that easy to start doesn't seem like it where are they gonna sleep what are they like I don't know. It's such a weird reaction. And it just sounds to me every time like, well, I don't want to look into this. It does. And the police's evidence and what they, what spurs this theory that maybe she just left of her own accord was that they learned that she had a penchant for spending and going into debt, which I think is like literally everyone, but maybe it was a lot of that. They don't go into the details. She was an American. That was the, but she was encouraged her to open up credit cards and she did like what.

I don't know. Being in debt is like a, it's evidence that she would have just left. However, she was going to be evicted from her apartment. And so the possibility emerged that she just decided to leave. Yeah. I don't know why she would just leave her cat. And it seemed like she had family that was probably a support system for her. Like maybe she could go live with one of them. I don't know. It doesn't sound like this woman has like so much resources that she's not going to want any of her furniture. Do you know the pain in the ass it is to buy new curtains every time you move? No. Can you imagine?

a blanket or anything and that you've just chosen that like you had like life hasn't gone in such a tragic direction that you are left with nothing you had things meager things and then you were like bye i think i'm just gonna go at all i don't know why it keeps coming up as a possibility i don't know so her family in canada he ruined it for everyone it is that one guy the paperclip thief uh damn him her family not surprisingly doesn't believe this because like we said her purse was left behind it contained her keys credit cards her identification her car was found in the parking lot of the apartment building her briefcase with all her client records was still inside she had left her cat by itself on the balcony this was very uncharacteristic of her um but this did leave to the lead them to the possibility that she may have been abducted and murdered sometime between Friday night and Saturday morning. This seemed likely after a neighbor reported hearing murder sounds coming from her apartment. Oh my god. What a phrase. I mean, it's true. This was what they heard. They were awoken in the middle of the night to a scream and a thud that they said sounded like someone falling off the bed at 3 45 a.m.

That's sad. Suspicious. Five hours later, the same neighbor heard the sound of Dee Dee's sliding glass door open and close. On March 1st, 1991, bartender Gloria Brown believed that she saw, this fuels the theory, that she saw Dee Dee at the biker bar where she worked. I realize this woman means well, but she didn't know Dee Dee. She's basing it off like one photograph. But if she would have only smiled, Liz, she could have been definitive. At that point, I was like, you're not even sure?

So what happens is a disheveled and tired looking woman, sad looking woman comes in to the bar and claims that she has no money. Gloria gives her a soda and the woman claims that her name is Lori and that she's trying to get to Florida. Georgia felt that something was not quite right, but she sort of left it at that. A few days later, she saw a place to sit for a little while. But usually if I go into a bar and I'm like, I have no money, they're not like, and here you go.

Yeah, it was nice of her. It was a small town type of place. But a few days later, she saw Dee Dee's missing persons flyer and realized that she may have been the woman that she saw at the bar. I sort of think her brain is just making connections. This isn't a lot of, this isn't solid evidence to me. There wasn't like an identifying feature or anything. She had a birthmark on her forehead.

You know, I don't know. The woman known as Lori had vanished before police had an opportunity to question her. A biker did claim to have spent the night with her and dropped her off at a liquor store the next morning. Robert Stack makes sure to tell us that he's not a suspect. I was kind of wondering why, but then I was like, none of this is really evidence, so that's probably why. I'm not sure they have evidence of any crime. They don't even seem to know who this person was. A few days later... The crime of a one-night stand, Samantha. I mean... The crime of dropping someone off at the liquor store, which is not terribly romantic, I have to say. The caller kept saying mama and then said that she was okay. It's just cruel.

I hate everyone. To the point where it's like, I can't believe this happens multiple times, but people do these. We've forgotten. I feel like we've forgotten as a culture so quickly, not having landline phones. How much like just prank phone calls you used to get? Just like creeps calling and breathing. That used to happen all the time. And it was just like, well, daily. Just like someone would call and breathe and you'd be like some creeper and you'd hang up and you'd just go about your day. Like imagine that happened now on your cell phone. Like for some reason you answered and it was just someone going, you would be so creeped out. And that used to happen.

all the time because you literally put your number in a book and then just left it on people's front lawns five weeks later her brother received a tip that she was in fort lauderdale florida however the tipster did not give any more information before hanging up a year later on september 25th 1992 the woman calling herself laurie showed up at the bar again she had dyed her hair blonde and claimed that she was in florida for a while um i kind of wonder if this is even the same person yeah i'm not i mean it might be maybe she knew someone in town not sure but gloria again She really likes that liquor store. Decided to try and talk to the woman. She told her that if she was Dee Dee, she needed to contact her family. Imagine this Lori person being like, what? Dee Dee, leave me alone. Pretty sure every time I've seen you, I've told you that my name is Lori. Yeah, well, if you're Dee Dee, call your mom. She's worried. I'm like, all right.

Can I have a soda? Yeah, where's my free soda? Also, my mom's been dead for 12 years. The woman left and has not been seen since. Probably because she was freaked out by the woman at the bar calling her Didi. Yeah, I can't go to this bar where this woman yells at me to call my mom all the time. It's weird. Didi has never been found and it was never determined if the woman seen at the bar was her. So, okay. Except that there's a terrible update. Yeah, so this case is sort of solved. In 1995, Didi's maintenance man, Charles E.

Crazy Eddie is what he went by. Not a good sign. Not a good sign. Arrested and charged with the hatchet murder of his girlfriend, Rebecca Wertz, and the sexual assault of her 14-year-old daughter. Oh, what? This is even worse than what they told me on Unsolved Mysteries. Sorry, I read off Unsolved Mysteries Wiki for the update and that wasn't in the show. I hate it! After being arrested, he confessed to investigators that he had also killed Dee Dee. He claimed that he had broken into her apartment, planning to steal from her. When she awoke, he beat her and smothered her with a pillow so that she would not identify him. He then stole $80 from her purse and left.

Oh, my God. For $80. A few days later, he noticed that newspapers were stacking up outside of Dee Dee's apartment. Fearing that her body would be found, he returned with a shopping cart, wrapped her body in a bedspread, and placed her in the cart. He then took the body and placed it in the trunk of his girlfriend's car. He dumped her body in a remote area off Route 130 in Salem County. Sadly, her body has never been recovered. However, her family has declared her legally dead. This guy was pushing a dead body in a shopping cart and nobody saw? Apparently not.

Oh, my God. In March of 1997, he was charged with Dee Dee's murder. Initially, he agreed to plead guilty to manslaughter in Dee Dee's death and lead police to her body. However, he backed out of this deal and went on trial in 2001. At trial, he claimed that Dee Dee was still alive and that he had made up his confession. The jury didn't believe him and he was found guilty. Well, all right. There's that, I guess. He was given a 16-year sentence plus two life terms for the 1995 murder of his girlfriend and the assault of her daughter. In 2002, his sentence was converted to death, which he is still serving. However, his sentence was overturned by the New Jersey Supreme Court and commuted to 80 years.

When in 2007, New Jersey abolished the death penalty. Dee Dee's mother, Dorothy, passed away in 2016 at the age of 97. Wow. That's so sad. What a brutal crime. Yeah, it's horrible. So, RIP Dee Dee. Yeah, that woman at the bar was clearly not Dee Dee. That was just a woman named Lori who's really confused. The woman named Lori was trying to get to Florida. Yeah, she's just trying to meet some biker studs. Yeah. This woman, this bartender kept coming and cock blocking her. She's like, I'm just trying to meet some fellas. Get out of my way. You need to call your mother.

All right. That brings us to the end of the episode. Oh, did you see that the Golden State Killer pled guilty? I did see that. So we no longer have to say allegedly or alleged. It's true. He is the Golden State Killer. Justice, finally. I guess. He's so old. You gotta be free for so long. I know. It really sucks. Okay. Should we rate this episode? Let's do it. All right. So mysteriousness? Hmm. Okay. Actually, the Black Dahlia Elizabeth Short's case is pretty mysterious. We have no idea what happened there. Yeah. And I mean, this last one is solved now, but I think it was probably mysterious at the time. You get a ghost? Which...

Isn't really mysterious, but it sort of adds an air of mystery. That's true. I think we can give it a thumbs up. I would give it a thumbs up. Reenactments? You get a variety. Okay, so you get the kids in the past. You get Elizabeth Short in the past. You get ghost reenactments, which are always very silly. I think they're pretty good. Native American Guide. Okay. All right. I don't know about that. But otherwise, I'm going to say a thumbs up. Yeah, I think so. Plus, bikers. Bikers, which leads us to our next category, which is fashion. I have to give it a thumbs up. There's big biker hair.

Lots of bandanas, some very bad frosted lipstick, some lady mullets. When the family gets reunited in the 90s, you've never seen so much denim in your life. Plus, you get some old-timey outfits. You know, Elizabeth was kind of glamorous. Yeah, yeah, I love it all. Thumbs up. Thumbs up, for sure. And Robert Stack, I mean, for that opening alone, I think. Both opening and closing, he got out the blue smoke machine, the unrealistic smoke machine. He seems excited every time he talks about Elliot Ness, I think just because it built his fame and fortune. So he seems like he's in a good mood. Thumbs up.

Thumbs up all around. So we have to rate this on a Robert Stack scale. I liked this episode. I think it was a pretty solid episode. You get four mysteries. There's some variety to the mysteries. Not one is like too long. There's no timing. The lost love is very sad, but then the ghost kind of like is a little more humorous. Right. It's sad, but the way the story is told is really engaging. It does have a happy ending. So yeah. Yeah. And it's cool to profile this woman that, you know, took care of her kids. We're all her siblings in such a bad situation. And I'm, you know, I'm glad you got some TV time.

Yeah, I got to write into her alumni newspaper about that or something. And then she got to meet all her siblings again, right? That's so cool. I'm going to say four Robert Stacks. I think we can solidly give this one a four. I enjoyed it. I think it's pretty well done. Yeah, it's well paced. Different eras. We get at least one paranormal thing.

I'm pretty happy with it. Me too. I don't know that I'm going to watch it again, but it's definitely worth watching. Yeah. If you're following along, don't skip this one. It's good. All right. That brings us to the end. Do you have something to recommend? I do have something to recommend. I have a television recommendation. In these staying home quarantine days, I have not been watching nearly as much TV as I would have expected. But I guess that's just because I've replaced my TV time with Animal Crossing time. But I did find a new show that I enjoyed, which is called Search Party.

It was originally on TBS and I watched it on the HBO app, HBO Max. I don't know if there's other ways to watch it. How many freaking HBO apps are there now? I think they got rid of the other one and now they have this one. I'm not really sure. HBO Go, HBO Now, just regular HBO. Now there's HBO Max. It like depends how you're getting your streaming thing, I think. And maybe this is only on HBO Max. I have no idea. I don't set any of that up. There's just channels and I watch them. You're not HBO. Is that what you're trying to tell us? I'm not. I am not. I have never. I did not meet. Did you see that thing that Lena Dunham sold the show Girls with only a page and a half?

Yeah, I did see that. No characters and no plot. I'm not the person that greenlit that. I would not have met a 23 year old with a vague idea of like people live in New York and said like, yeah, that's a show. Let's share that. OK, no, wait, we're talking about Search Party, which is about a group of friends who are like a vague acquaintance from college goes missing and they decide they're going to be the people that find her.

and get sort of like sucked into this weird, it like keeps getting weirder and weirder as it goes. So the first couple episodes I watched and I was like, yeah, this has like potential. It's kind of funny. But like the more I watch it, the more I like it as it just gets like more and more funny and more and more intensely weird. I'm really enjoying it. They just released the third season. So I'm not done with the third season, but I really enjoyed the first and second season and it's very, very funny.

And they're only like, you know, half an hour, like 20 some minute episodes. So you'll cruise through it really fast. It's not a sad part because there's like 10 episodes a season and they're only half an hour. So if you have just like a couple afternoons to kill, you'll end up getting through the whole thing and then being very sad like me. I really, really enjoy it. I don't want to say too much about it because I feel like the surprise element is huge, but it goes in like very unexpected places. And it's so consistent, like the tone of it and the sense of humor. And it's like, I feel like it must be so hard to make something like a movie or a TV show to get everyone on the same page. And you can see lots of times when that doesn't happen, like someone's acting in a totally different style or, you know, whatever. Or there's like some episode that just doesn't like fit with the rest of the show. But this is like so precisely done. And I'm just really impressed with, with like all the acting and the writing and whatever. It's like top notch.

Nice. I canceled my HBO subscription a while back, but I've been thinking about getting it again to watch that McMansion show. Oh, yeah. Have you watched that? I mean, I haven't. Honestly, in general, I feel like... You know what? I watched like half of that and didn't like it. You didn't like it? Okay, wow. Lots of people love it. I seriously couldn't even stick with it. It's about, if people don't know what we're talking about, it's about how those like McDonald's monopoly things are a fraud. And you probably thought they were a fraud, but it wasn't like McDonald's perpetrating a fraud. It was like someone had those game pieces and was like selling them to people and stuff like that. But...

The documentary relies so much on talking to these like feds who think they're so clever and so funny. And I just don't have the same opinion of shows. People got like really sucked into it. And it does have like, it is a kind of surprising story. Like I'm surprised it wasn't just like McDonald's lying, which is what I always assumed. But.

the people talking i just don't think it'd be that long i guess because i was like you think you're so funny and you're really not they're just still gonna try but maybe yeah i think something else lined up would make me take the plunge yeah yeah in general i feel like hbo is a rip-off honestly like mac wants it i don't really understand why i feel like you would expect the channel to have a ton of movies available to watch and it just really doesn't like i'm always disappointed Where I just feel like I want that experience of like you wander into Blockbuster, you're searching around whatever thing you want is out and you just end up watching stuff like, oh, yeah, I always meant to see this. Right. And then you watch that. Like, I want to be able to just like browse through movies and then be like, oh, yeah, I never saw whatever. I'm going to watch that tonight. And you get through that list and you're like, I never meant to see any of that shit. That all looks bad. I don't know. I don't know.

that pretty much sums it up but i probably will resubscribe to hbo max or whatever the fuck there's i don't i don't get it i don't get it at all and i saw something on like maybe twitter or whatever that was like oh new season search party coming out and i was like yay and then i saw the comments and they were all people being like why the hell is this on hbo max how am i supposed to watch this that was like every comment like why are you advertising this to me i have no way of seeing it so i don't know if you're able to watch it or not but if you can it's quite good okay okay well my recommendation is kind of silly but i had pretty much nothing else Potatoes. They're delicious. Well, I do always recommend. It's a standing recommendation on this show. It's just potatoes in every form. Actually. Why am I guessing? And my recommendation this week is potatoes. I was just totally serious about that. No, they're great. You can get them in fry form. You can mash them. You can bake them. You can push it on them. Well, so my recommendation in addition to potatoes.

Do you like au gratin potatoes? Depending. Depending on who made them. That's true. They couldn't be done bad. Sometimes I feel like there's something in it that's almost like mustardy. I don't know. Sometimes there's a flavor element where I go, I don't want this in my cheesy potatoes. Okay. Anyway, go on. My recommendation is not potatoes. It's also. Well, first, it starts with a disappointing update. And that is that the tiramisu Oreos are not good. Oh, my God. That is disappointing. Oh, I got the dark chocolate Oreos that you recommended, and they're fabulous. They're so good. Also.

What is good? This is not my recommendation, but as a sidebar, the fudge-covered dark chocolate Oreos. I'm sorry, what? Fudge-covered dark chocolate Oreos. They also have the regular Oreos there, I assume, covered in milk chocolate, but I got the dark chocolate ones the other day. Not a mistake. I've honestly been having an Oreo craving today. This is not an ad for Oreos. Oreos doesn't give us any money. I'm sure Nabisco is a terrible, horrible company. Anyway, I honestly have had an Oreo craving today, which I'm not sure I've ever had before, and I was like, God damn, I can't really go for an Oreo. You don't get any in a box, so it might be kind of a ripoff, but they're so good.

So good. Have you ever bought those chocolate-covered Oreos they have at like TJ Maxx by the checkout? And they come in like pastel foil. They come in like really fancy packaging and then you buy them and it's like, oh, the leaf of those food products are like going to be stale. You know what? Those are delicious. These are the ones that I've had. Okay. I like that I'm talking about food from a TJ Maxx and Cap. That's real this show. That's real this show. That's pretty on brand for us. So anyway, the tiramisu Oreos, they're not bad. They're just not good. They don't taste like tiramisu. They don't taste like coffee. And they kind of remind me of like, I've had this novelty Oreo before, like either like a latte flavored Oreo or something before. Just, I don't know. I had one and the package is still in our pantry and I haven't like been compelled to finish that. That is a bad sign. So not my favorite, but something like a novelty snack food.

So I might call it a breakfast food. I'm not really sure if that's legit. But something I am enjoying is cinnamon toast crunch toaster strudels. Okay. Okay. Do they taste like Cinnamon Toast Crunch, the cereal? They taste like cinnamon. I can't say when I last ate Cinnamon Toast Crunch or any cereal, really. It's just not in my opinion. Cereal is shockingly expensive also. Yeah. Like name brand cereal. Yeah. That's another thing. It is really expensive. So it's just not a food we get. So I can't really say that it's like one for one, the same flavor, but it is really good. The little frosting packets have cinnamon in them. So it's almost like that's like the cereal milk from the Cinnamon Toast Crunch. They're on top of the frosting form.

delicious and honestly I can't remember the last time I had a toaster struggle either but my husband brought these home at last time he went grocery shopping and I had some today and I was like damn this is delicious and you went you do love me that's how I feel whenever Mac brings home groceries that I want that I'm like oh hello I feel like there's just like some novel snack in there and it's like yeah you got this for me What was your go-to cereal as a child? Did you have a staple? We would eat Honey Nut Cheerios and then sprinkle sugar on top of them. Oh, that sounds good. That happened a lot in my house. And occasionally we would sneak like an extra scoop of sugar and have like so much sugar just on top of the cereal. My mom loved Cinnamon Toast Crunch, actually. That was her favorite. It was never my favorite. And also the Fruity Captain Crunch was a big one. Oh, I don't like the fruit ones. Oh, I really do. We were Sugar Smacks, now called Honey Smacks, in these politically correct days.

Yeah, we were a Sugar Smacks family, and you know what? This stuff is still delicious. And it is basically just candy. I mean, yeah, it is. That coating that's on those puffed rice things, I don't know what's in there, but man, oh man, is it good. For a while, Steak and Shake, which is sadly a chain that doesn't exist in Minnesota, was making milkshakes of different breakfast cereals, and you could get Honey Smacks milkshake.

delicious it was really good novelty oreos um there was a mystery flavor a couple years ago that i'm 100 positive was fruity cereal like fruity pebble yeah fruity cereal it's like the milk it was delicious they should have made that one a permanent flavor i you could like as soon as you open the package you could like you're like oh this is cereal milk it just like smelled like i don't know it doesn't milk jam milk jam is this like fancy ice cream place here in minneapolis i feel like they do a I think they have a cereal milk ice cream. Yeah, because we went there and got the like everything platter a couple years ago. That was amazing. One of our best decisions. That was for a friend of the pod, Rochelle's birthday one year. Yeah, we got. We spent like $60 on ice cream. Well, you know, there's a few of us to eat all ice cream's platter. One scoop of every ice cream and then they put every topping on it. And yeah, one of them is cereal milk and that one was so good. But it had like cardamom in it, I think. I don't know. They make it fancy because they're charging you the real money, I guess. It's like, oh, this has cardamom in it. It's like, yeah, we're here for the cereal milk, but that's okay.

I think maybe if we can't watch Unsolved Mysteries anymore, this will just become snack hour. Okay. We did the snack podcast. Yeah. I don't know who would listen to that, but I didn't know who would listen to this. And here we are. Okay. I think it's time to wrap it up. All right. So keep those five-star reviews rolling in for your iTunes, Apple podcasts. We only accept five-star reviews. You can complain about our typos, but please do it in a five-star review. Yeah, exactly. Quit DMing me on Instagram. It's creepy. We have a website. It's perhapsisyou.com. You can find our recommendations there. There's a form you can contact us, but not about typos.

Yeah, I don't know what else to say about that. Sign up for our Patreon for even just $1. You'll get a bonus episode every month. And we talked about the low files yet again, so you're going to want to hear that. We will probably be talking about the reboot. I don't know if that's going to be on a regular Patreon or if we'll do like a bonus Patreon, but I do think that's probably how we'll end up doing it. Since we're going in order, it seems like it's going to be years before we get to the new ones, right? Yeah, we should probably cover at least a couple episodes. Yeah, we keep saying we'll figure that out and then not really figuring that out. The deadline is looming, but we will. So subscribe to our Patreon is what we're saying.

Yeah, I guess maybe that will be the next Patreon, actually. Huh. Huh. Way to plan ahead. Oh, if you want to submit something to the zine, get that in by the end of July. I think I'm going to cut stuff off then. So if you needed a deadline to put a little pressure on yourself, you've got one month left to mail something in to Perhaps It's You podcast at gmail.com. Also, if you want to mail in a spooky story or a psychic dream you've had, we would love to see them. Yeah. Is that everything? I'm pretty sure that's everything. I feel like I talked an awful lot, so let's say yes. All right. We'll be done. Okay. Keep barking, everyone. Bye. Bye.