Before we get to our show, here is a podcast we think you're going to love. If you like weird and strange history, then I have the podcast for you. My name is Brenda, and I'm the host of Horrifying History. Are you into the dark side of history? Horrifying History tells you about the side of history that people don't normally talk about. We talk about the tales of haunted places, infamous true crimes, cursed items, and unsolved mysteries, and then we look into the science and documentation to see where does the truth actually lie. Want to get spooky with us? Get your Horrifying History fix by subscribing to Horrifying History, which you can find on any major podcast provider.
Oh, my goodness. It's time for Perhaps It's You, your favorite unofficial Unsoft Mysteries rewatch podcast. I'm Liz. And I'm Samantha. And somewhere out there is BD Wong. Hi, BD Wong. I assume you're listening. Thanks for listening. Yeah, thanks for listening, everyone. I hope you're doing well here on this fine day. I know that this becoming a bi-weekly podcast has been a terrible transition for you, but...
A great transition for us. It's been great for us, honestly. Yeah. But I know it's been rough out there. Although, should we tell people that we attempted to record in person and failed miserably? That's true. You were supposed to be listening to a very special episode, listeners, and instead, I'm at my house, Liz is at her house, and we're recording on a Monday. Yeah. We tried to record this weekend in person. I had some sweets and treats and everything, but...
I think our sort of bootleg setup that we've been using doesn't work with current Windows updates. We may have discovered that the setup we used for like, I don't know, four years never should have worked in the first place because we were using completely the wrong equipment. I'm not entirely sure that we were using these microphones this entire time or that we even have a podcast. This could all be a dream. Yeah, that's sort of what an impression I came along with is that none of this is real. I'm not even sure there is a Samantha. I might have made her up and that my mom's going to be like, Samantha, you mean that mannequin you used to have?
there was never a person named Samantha Liz. That was just a gigantic doll mannequin. And I'll be like, Oh my goodness. I made it all up. The mind is a dangerous web. Why is nothing real? Because yeah, Matt was like really trying to help us. And he's like, is this what you guys always did? And I was like, who knows? Like, honestly, it's been a year and a half since we set any of this up. I don't remember anything, but also when you say it.
it makes sense that it would not work well we only have i mean we only have like one cord of certain cords and things so like what you're looking at is what we used and if it's not the right thing i don't know what to say about it because we don't know what we're doing except it just worked somehow and now it doesn't because i don't know technology caught up to us or something i think they figured it out that we were just skating by on by the seat of our pants and that we didn't know what we were doing and they're like actually no actually that's not okay you should um not have a podcast is that what we're learning i don't know i would say that except that i liked this episode of unsolved mysteries and i was kind of like oh yeah that's why we do this me too every once in a while we get one of these and you're like oh yeah i used to like this show like oh yeah this is why we wanted to talk about this stuff i remember so i maybe that isn't the message the universe had for us maybe the message the universe had for us was just buy another cord i don't Buy a new mixer, maybe. I'm not sure. It's not a great message. A little bit like the Beast of Brayroads message being I am better than you. Also, not a great message. Not a great message. Listen to our Patreon if you don't know what I'm talking about.
Yeah. So we did try to record in person again and it was a big old failure. And so we just ate sandwiches and watched relaxing videos of like fish swimming around in the ocean. We watched at least an hour of Turtle Paradise. Turtle Paradise, which didn't have that much turtles in it. It was literally just footage of like tropical coral wreaths. And we were like, this is nice. Set to some soothing music. It was nice. I think we watched a couple loops of that video. Because we are party animals. I have an update, which is that we're going to be making a second issue of the zine.
Yes! I'm excited. If you were interested in contributing to the zine, so far it looks like it's going to be even better than the last one. I don't even know how that's possible. But we have a cross-stitch pattern that has been submitted, and it fucking rules. And Rob from Our Strange Skies wrote us a thing about how everybody's sick of hearing about Roswell, which is pretty great. And our friend Cara is working on a tarot spread for us. So if you have anything you would like to contribute to the zine, we would love to have it. Submissions, go to perhapsitsoupodcast.gmail.com, and all contributors get a free issue of the zine. The sort of things you could contribute is really like anything that can be printed on paper.
A recipe, a word search, a comic, artwork, a paper doll. I would say, think of things that would be in a children's rainy day activity book. And if you could make a version of that that applies to the podcast, like a mask you cut out and wear, I don't know, sure. Ooh, I like that idea. You know. What about one of those paper dolls you cut out little outfits for? It has little tabs in the corners? I would love that. If someone made a paper doll of me and you and Robbie Stacky, yes.
You could put a little trench coat on us. I love. Yeah, Robert Stack could be there. There could be a shirtless Matthew McConaughey. I don't know. Sign me up. Yeah. Poems.
really, really your imagination is the only limit. The last issue had fan art. It had a recipe for Mac and cheesies. It had a crossword puzzle. It had all kinds of cool stuff and you can still get an issue of that. There's details on our website, perhaps it's you.com, but that is $15 shipped to you and it's pretty cool. So that is the only update I can really think of is that we are now collecting submissions for the new issue of the Dean. I haven't picked a like cutoff date for that yet. So you'll probably have a couple of months to get something together. If you want to like work on a little project, you have some time.
Yeah. You know, it just has to be something, perhaps it's you, Unsolved Mysteries adjacent, somewhere in our weird universe that you think the rest of the five would enjoy. The interesting universe is kind of vast, not going to lie. Yeah, it touches a lot of bases, huh? Yeah. So, you know, there's a lot of little points of inspiration you could draw from.
to make a little a puppet somehow yeah you could be little characters there could be a little john taffer you have to like cut out and paste to popsicle sticks and then yeah put on magic rock that would be so great i would love it if someone made one of those cootie catchers you know that thing you like fold and it depending on what number you like lift up the has a different fortune so if someone wants to design one of those that would be awesome i would love to have that in there those were the best do you think you could still fold one if pressed i'm not sure i think i would have to look up how to do it yeah i think i would too and that's surprising because i probably made so many of those that or maybe like oh you know what i would love is a mad lib if someone wants to make a perhaps it's you mad lib and send that over that would be so good i'm into it a choose your own adventure kind of story absolutely that would be cool on some mysteries related i'm into that People have sent photography. People have sent all sorts of interesting things. I think we're getting a sewing pattern. Like it's going to be lit. So I thought the last one was very good. I thought people had some really creative stuff and it looks like this one's going to be even cooler. So I can't wait. Very creative people out there in the five. I have to say.
What a creative group of listeners. I appreciate it. Yeah. Well, today we're going to be talking about season six, episode 18. And you can find this for free on YouTube. I would really recommend watching it that way. And that's a solid episode, I thought. I liked it. There were five mysteries in this episode. That kind of blew me away. I thought there was only going to be three because my first one is kind of long. Yeah.
There's a lot to it. So I thought we were dealing with a three mystery episode and then I was like, oh no, I'm sorry, there's five. This person on self mysteries can do it. You can pack five mysteries in a year. Why are we having these episodes with one or two mysteries? Or a super long update that's just basically the whole mystery over again. Maybe that's actually what made this one so good is that there was no unnecessary updates. And then it was just pure content hooking right to my veins. If someone did that study of our episodes, like which episodes we liked and which ones we didn't, I bet you would have a correlation between updates. I bet episodes that have no unnecessary updates in them generally get ranked higher. It's a hypothesis at this point, but...
I think you can find that data to support it. If anybody wants to do a little, perhaps it's you data analysis. Also. We'll put that. We'll put that in a scene. Are spreadsheets your love language? Yeah. How many episodes did we give four stars to? How many times have we given fashion a thumbs up? I don't know, but maybe you do. Maybe you want to find that out. Maybe you already have that data. You just haven't been, you've been too embarrassed to admit it. Now's the time. Oh, we want to know. Don't. Don't be embarrassed. Do not keep that to yourself. Don't keep that from me, a woman that had an X-Files scrapbook.
Will I probably put some more copies of the X-Files scrapbook in this version of the scene? Yeah, I will. You're going to want to. For sure. For sure. Okay. So Samantha goes first this week. I love this one. I love this one. Okay. I love this segment. I 100% think it's real. I don't know. I don't know if it's because. Okay. So this first segment is different examples of like mothers having like ESP moments that their children are in trouble. And my mom definitely told me stories like this all the time growing up. So I, I don't, I think I'm just predisposed to believe that this is true, but I do think that parents could have a like.
intuitive warning that something is wrong yeah you could call it psychic you could call it a love like a parental love connection or something like one person in this episode does i don't know what it is but i think it's totally real so like liz said this is uh about psychic moms this is the unexplained so robert stack starts robert stack is like quite poetic in this episode i don't know what got into him or if it's the writers or what but he i think just like met a lady or something he seems like glowing something's going on i feel is it spring is he in love he seems like he's got a little spring in his step he kind of does because he tells us that the bond between mother and child defies the limits of time and space i don't know about that i don't even know what that means it just means they wrote some bullshit limits of time and space i'm not sure that it does but i mean those are words you can say uh so we hear of a couple different stories of moms having these premonitions, these psychic connections to their children that, like Liz said, happens when their children are in danger. So the first happened to a woman named Carolyn Herbert in 1974. She was a mother of two. But there is one specific day that she will never forget. She describes being home in the evening. She's doing dishes. Her husband, I don't know what the fuck he's doing, but is not watching the baby.
segment makes him seem really useless because their house is cute or the reenactment house is cute and she is in this like cute kitchen I don't know baking a cake or doing some mom's doing the dishes and okay I made it like cuter in my head and then the dad is in the living room and this is not HGTV open concept so these are actually like separate rooms that the dad is in the living room with the kids and he's reading the paper so apparently he can't like notice what his children are doing like right in front of him in the same room apparently completely useless yeah monica uh her older daughter is doing homework and then sarah who was a little infant tiny baby was on her stomach on the floor doing like you probably call it tummy time now where she's just laying on the floor with a few little toys in front of her completely unattended but i'm sure that carolyn assumed her husband was watching the baby but it seems like he was just reading the paper while the baby was eating a balloon he's completely engrossed and like Oh, new terrorists on Canada. Better read this newspaper article. Meanwhile, the baby is right there choking. Right in front of him, feet away from where he was sitting. So like we said, Carolyn was doing the dishes when suddenly she says that this feeling that there was something wrong just washed over her. And she knew instinctively that something was wrong and she needed to run to the children. So she sensed that her eight-month-old daughter was in trouble and she ran into the other room and discovered that she was choking on a balloon.
yeah those things are real hazards yeah yikes they're bad for children they're bad for like animals they never well maybe those rubber balloons do but those like helium balloons like never decompose no yeah they're really bad for the environment and bad for babies yeah so this is what unsolved mysteries says call it mother's instinct call it esp call it simply the power of love accounts of extraordinary intuition of mothers have been handed down for generations simply the power of it's like he's gonna burst into a 80s ballad the power of love Yeah. So Robert Stack goes on to say that, yeah, they defy the limits of time and space. And while it may never be scientifically proven, it's far too compelling to be denied. OK, I totally think that these stories are true. But there's also a cynical part of me that just thinks, look, if you're a parent, you worry about your children 24-7 and it never ever stops. And just like some of those times, something is actually wrong. That crossed my mind, too, only because I...
I know that I could never trust my own instinct because I'm constantly worried, especially now. Obviously, it's probably offensive to compare having dogs to children, but I've been home with my dogs for a year and a half now. I almost never leave the house. So when I do have to leave the house and I go into the office for eight hours, I'm constantly worried that they're at home eating something or somehow I left the door open and they've run away. And I know that's constantly in the back of my mind. Or like you're constantly worried that you left your straight, your flat iron plugged in or something. I'm going to burn the house down. I constantly have those thoughts in my brain. So I know if I had children, it would be like that times a thousand. And I could probably never trust my own intuition where I would be like, oh, I have to turn around and make sure the kid's not choking or whatever. Well, Samantha, why did you leave that giant bowl of old deflated balloons on the living room floor? You didn't want the baby to eat them. That was a mistake. Yeah. I mean, yeah, exactly. That you're just like, wait, did I actually turn off my hairdryer or did I just let that?
Or is my house going to burn down? Yeah, I can't imagine the level of constant worry that parenting must entail. Yeah, no, absolutely. And that's why I say, no thanks. Yeah, I mean, that's one of the reasons I don't have kids. I would never sleep ever. So our next story is about, I'll never know this bond that goes beyond time and space. And it's a little bit sad, but in another way, it's like, oh.
Life will be so much easier. I'm not responsible for the life of a very delicate small baby. So our next story is about Elaine Emi and her neighbor Sharon Craker, I think is how you pronounce it. So in 1983, they were traveling for business together and they were about three hours from their home. They lived in Palm Springs and they were about 110 miles from their homes in Los Angeles. This was about a three hour drive. They stopped to eat.
When suddenly Elaine was seized by an overwhelming sense of dread about her four-year-old son. She describes it as being hit by a wave. It was a powerful feeling, not only emotionally, but also physically. She said she just knew that something was wrong with her son Matt immediately. She could not shake the feeling, no matter how hard she tried. Her friend and neighbor, and I think business partner Sharon, who was with her, tried to reassure her and say, you know, you're just worried being away from him for so long. Like, maybe we should just eat dinner and maybe the feeling will subside. But she insisted that something was absolutely wrong.
She couldn't ignore the feeling any longer. She got up from the table and called home, but there was no answer. Convinced that something terrible had happened, she called Sharon's husband, because they were neighbors, but Tom hadn't heard from Elaine's husband or seen anything unusual at their house, which was just across the street. According to Sharon, Elaine began to panic at this point. And Sharon describes her as not being out of control, but her mannerisms gave her the impression that she was extremely concerned and agitated. And Elaine insisted at this point that they leave immediately and drive back to Los Angeles. I think this is amazing, actually, that she trusts this instinct so much. Right. I think it's amazing, too, because I would never trust myself this much. I would be like, I don't know, too worried about making a big deal about nothing. Me too. Exactly. I would be like, well, we came all this way and I don't want to make Sharon drive all the way back. But Elaine was like, no, something is absolutely wrong with my son. And of course, this is before cell phones. So her husband, if he wasn't at the house or whatever, she couldn't easily get a hold of him.
They drive back to Los Angeles. Elaine stopped several times along the way to call home, but no one answered. She said it was the longest three hours of her life. When she and Sharon finally did arrive home, Sharon's husband had stunning news, which was that Matt was in the hospital and being prepped for surgery to reattach severed tendons in his arm. He had fallen and crashed through a plate glass door at the very moment that the sense of dread had swept over Elaine in the restaurant.
She says, I was feeling what Matt was going through. There was no doubt about it. I don't think I ever even questioned it. I'm not sure why I was able to feel that way, but I know without any doubt that that was the feeling I was experiencing. So Elaine and her son had been separated by more than 100 miles, but it was as if she had seen the accident with her own eyes. This is where Dr. Thomas Burney brings up this theory of why Elaine's bond with her son was so intense. And he looks like a doctor from a cartoon. I just want to point out, he's got like bushy hair, beard. I don't know. He looks like a doodle. I think he's...
this is the doctor that would have this theory about this. Is this a real doctor or is he a doctor of like, you know, they don't say literature. Is he a medical doctor? You know, they don't say, I think, I mean, he has the title of doctor. So, but he says that he thinks the connection starts in the womb, that even in the womb, some children and their mothers are more connected than others. And if they are really connected, that it can continue for the rest of their lives. I don't know that I buy this womb theory, but.
Yeah, I would ask Dr. Thomas to prove that. But at the same time, I totally believe that there is this connection between it. I feel like I also believe in the twin connections. Like, you just have a stronger connection with someone who you've shared a womb with. Or, you know, you carry this baby in your body. And now I think it's very possible that there's connections between you that science can't totally explain. Anyway. It's a really cute story. And it made me want to go to Palm Springs. Yeah, definitely.
So if Elaine Emmy does have a psychic bond with her son, it seems logical that it originated in the womb. However, many adoptive mothers, like our next story, however, many adoptive mothers, like the woman in our next story, have also reported similar experiences. So the third instance of this ESP between parents and children is the story of Linda Bob. She had adopted... How is that a real name? I'm sorry, Linda. Linda Bob? Well, okay, so I pronounced it Bob. I don't know if it's Bob or Bab. It's B-A-B-B. If it's Linda Bob, that sounds like a haircut I don't want. Maybe it's Linda Bab. Okay.
I don't know why there's two B's. Why is it spelled that way, Linda? I don't know. I don't remember how Robert Stack pronounced it. That's all right. So they had three, her and her husband Dirk had three children. And I'm not sure, at least one of them was adopted. I'm not sure if all of them were, but they had definitely adopted children in the past and they were looking to adopt again. Linda says that around the same time that her and her husband had started considering adopting another child, she had this very intense dream. In the dream, she saw a young woman in labor. She describes her as a fair skinned woman with light colored hair. She did not know the person, but she could see her vividly. She witnessed the woman.
like i said giving birth she saw the woman pushing she even saw the baby's head crown and the baby be born she said that the baby had dark hair and that he was slightly dark in complexion at that moment he was born he began to cry and she woke up from the dream she said she felt startled because it was extremely vivid and realistic she had never had a dream that was that vivid and she looked at the clock on her bedside table and it read 2 59 in the morning on march 8th she even told her husband about it he recounts her coming to him and telling him about the dream that's how much of an impact it had on her Six weeks later, they got a call from their adoption agency. They had already applied to adopt a child, and they had called to tell them that there was a baby that they might be interested in seeing. It was a baby boy. At the agency, an adoption agent brought in the baby for Linda to see. She said he had beautiful golden brown skin and a head of dark hair, and he looked very much like the infant in her dream. And then when they told her the baby had been born on March 8 at 2.59 in the morning, she was stunned. She said she was speechless. She turned to Dirk and said, that's the same time and date of the dream I had.
Which is incredible to me. This is what Robert Stack says. Taken at face value, these three stories and countless others like them point to an apparent telepathic link between certain mothers and their children. While such a connection may never be fully explained, if you someday get the panicky feeling that your child is in danger, it might not hurt to just wander over and take a look. i think it's so cool that we got an adoptive parent story in this i would i would love to hear one from a dad too yeah and since i just love a dream story i mean obviously that last one is really cool the fact that the time is like the same time yeah i really liked that they expanded this segment to include more non-traditional families it's i mean it's still it's all mysteries they don't go that non-traditional but i did like that they recognize that there can be connections between parents that goes beyond like a blood connection so i like that a lot too Yeah, I appreciated that. We got Dirk here has a mustache. He's the dad of the last family. His mustache is called the intuition. Though I gotta say, he's kind of handsome. I don't think the stache is helping. I thought that too. Actually, both him and Linda, I thought. Linda loved her haircut. I thought she was very chic. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, Dirk could go without the mustache. Dirk needed it until he was that mustache. He was pretty handsome. So get rid of the intuition, Dirk. Yeah, I like that one. That was really good. Get the episode off to a good start.
Agreed. Okay, so the next one is a wanted. This takes place in North Hollywood, California, going back to October 25th, 1990. It starts with a woman sitting in her car in the parking lot of her husband's accounting firm. This is also where she worked, which Unsolved Mysteries doesn't mention right away, which I think is a little bit shitty, but whatever. And she's shot through the head. Her name was Anita Green. She died after two days in a coma, and the man who shot her is still at large.
So this is connected to another series of crimes, which is a woman named Michelle Samet believes she is being targeted by the same man. She was Anita's friend and wrote a book titled No Sanctuary about her death. She thinks Anita's killer doesn't appreciate how much she has learned about the case. She is so well spoken. I thought she was like one of the better interview subjects that we've seen on the show.
She was very put together. I think she does have a background in journalism. They didn't talk about it a whole lot. She once referred to it like she would talk about a story she was reporting. I noticed immediately. So I'm assuming that's why, but she's very put together and just clearly ballsy, as you'll hear in this story. So Anita originally met her husband, Mel, in 1974, working as a bookkeeper at his accounting firm. They were at that time married to other people, but got married after seven years of knowing each other. Anita's friends were shocked, partly because she signed a prenuptial agreement. This is how Michelle phrases it, that he was like...
god that if they had any disagreement he automatically won this sounds completely absurd do you think this was actually how it was i mean i have no reason to disbelieve her she seems like i don't know i it's not what a prenup is for a prenup is for like division of assets so i don't know but maybe she did have to sign some sort of marriage contract that was like you think it meant like if they have a dispute if they were to split up and they had a dispute about anything he just automatically won like do you think that's the kind of dispute that was in the prenup not just like who does the dishes i have no idea It seemed almost like something that would be more in vows than in a prenup. A legal document? Yeah, but basically that he was always right, and she had to defer to him. So her friends were all pretty shocked she was willing to marry him. And her friend, Michelle, actually believes that she was abused, despite Anita constantly making excuses for Mel that he was just a blowhard and liked to hear himself talk and stuff like that. But he clearly was very off-putting, and I don't know that really anybody liked him. He just sort of like...
full of himself and i don't know if he like regularly intimidated people or threatened people or he just like talked himself up a lot but he seemed to try to intimidate people constantly yeah yeah He seems like an ass. So Anita sought refuge from her marriage by becoming more and more involved in her synagogue. And it was rumored that she began an affair with her rabbi. After a while, she asked Mel for a divorce and he was outraged. Strangely, as part of the divorce proceedings, Mel insisted that Anita continue to work with him, which seemed to be an acknowledgement that she knew too much about his business. Because on the one hand, he's like putting her down and telling her that she's stupid and useless and blah, blah, blah. But then it's also saying like, like as part of the divorce, like she's not allowed to quit.
her job because he needs her and the like firm would suffer without her and she needs to like keep working for him that couldn't possibly be legally binding i'm not a lawyer but that seems not right no that's you can't force people to work for you like indefinitely i don't i don't know anyway so he seemed to be worried more about her stopping working for him than her divorcing him and it may be that he knew she knew too much about his business um during the divorce proceedings he would send both anita and her lawyer threatening letters which is one way to to even her lawyer that's one way to conduct yourself in a divorce proceeding yeah it's saying like dear lawyer i'm going to kill anita wow okay so we meet a detective ray hernandez at this point who has a serious chief wiggum mustache like it is it is huge um and he tells us about the three witnesses to anita's murder we don't get to know these people's names and i assume that that is to protect them so we have three different witnesses one is a man who worked across the street in the
building whatever that other business was and he actually that day saw mel waiting outside this door that no one ever used looking at his watch shortly before anita's convertible appeared closely followed by a motorcycle so it's like a guy he's out there he's like oh what time is it that time i asked that my wife murdered let me see oh look there she is oh and she's closely followed by a motorcycle that guy i hired to kill her great and then he like goes back inside okay the second witness is a guy who was working on a nearby roof so he actually saw even more he saw a man park his motorcycle on the wrong side of the street run to anita's parked convertible fire one shot through the window, and then run back to the motorcycle and speed away.
However, at that time, the shooter was wearing a motorcycle helmet and visor, so he didn't have a look at his face. However, they don't explain how, but there's a third witness who saw the cyclist shortly after the murder remove his helmet and visor. So that person worked with the police for a sketch, and it's this white dude with dumb and dumber hair. There's this really awkward length for men's hair, like Dutch boy paint. Yeah, it kind of, Once on Mysteries makes it look like it's kind of bleached. You know when you bleach your hair, but it ends up being more orange? Yeah, yeah. Kind of the shade of his hair.
If you have dark hair, it's hard to get a really light, light look away. Like you have to strip off that color. So it like, that's kind of, yeah, like orange rusty for a while. So it kind of looks like that. It's kind of a mess. It kind of looks like straw. It's like, this is a scarecrow man. I don't know. Whatever. Some poor hair choices were made. So immediately after Anita died, when her body was still in the room, her husband Mel turned to Anita's friend Phyllis and said, I look pretty good. Don't I? And then it explains our way to behave at your wife's deathbed. She like, she seriously croaks. And then it would be like.
yeah if Mac okay I croak Mac turns to Samantha I'm literally like they haven't even wheeled my body out and he was like hey I'm looking pretty good right I lost a bunch of weight look how good I look that's what he was saying to her friend he starts to explain that he's been on this like new liquid diet as if she gives a fuck as if anyone does as if this woman isn't like oh my god my friend Anita is dead this is horrible like hey she was just murdered yeah yeah so police were also surprised when they went to go talk to Mel about his wife's death and he lawyered up immediately now that's not really evidence but for this guy kind of is though it's just sort of a pattern of behavior that the police were like yeah so we definitely aren't looking at a ton of suspects right we're not casting like a wide net for this one we just got to find some evidence on mel so despite there being much direct evidence since everybody agreed mel had hired somebody he wasn't the guy on the motorcycle himself but he was still convicted of first-degree murder on march 4th 1992 and he got life without parole In May of 92, so right after he was convicted, Mel agreed to be interviewed for Michelle's book despite his lawyer's advice. So this was her friend that was writing that book, No Sanctuary. She said that she went in with an open mind, but that Mel himself quickly convinced her of his guilt through his behavior. However, she kept meeting with him for interviews because she wanted to figure out how Mel had paid a hitman, which is something the police had not been able to uncover because there hadn't been any bank withdrawals or anything like that. But what she discovered was that he had sold a rare coin for $30,000 three weeks before Nina's death.
This is a little bit foreshadowed. I don't know how accurate this is, but in the reenactment of their divorce proceedings, he's like yelling about how he has rare coins and rare stamps and like Anita's not going to get any of that. It was well thought out by Unsolved Mysteries. I actually think this segment is very well told. So during one of Michelle's visits to Mel in prison, she saw him several times, usually for like a whole day because she was trying to get all this information for her book. And also I think kind of hoping he would like slip up. She was asked to leave when another visitor arrived. And like as she's going up to leave, Mel says that the person coming is like a brother to him and that he, quote, would do anything for me. He's a homeowner because of me.
Okay. So Michelle goes and sits outside in her car while this other meeting is happening. And she sees the other dude leave and get on a motorcycle. And he looks exactly like that police sketch and is riding the same type of like Suzuki motorcycle that the killer was riding. So when she goes back to see Mel, you know, that same day, now that his other visitor has gone, she's upset. So she tells him that she knows about the coins and that she knows that he hired Anita's killer. And at this point, Mel gets extremely angry and starts yelling at her that she's not allowed to print lies and blah, blah, blah. But ends up saying, if you end up dead after I make a call, you'll know who did it.
I have questions. My main question is, do they just let anybody walk into this prison without giving their name? That's the thing! That's the thing! I expected her to see this guy come out and be like, oh my god, that's him, and then run to the prison and be like, who was just here? He's driving the same motorcycle. He has the same stringy straw hair. That's him. Or maybe they're not allowed to give her that information. Fucking call Detective Hernandez. Get him to get it, or whatever, right? Do you have to show an ID before you can go talk to the prisoner, at least? On TV, you do. I don't know. But I thought you had to check in and go through this whole, like...
You know, a metal detector. At least have to sign a piece of paper and walk through a metal detector. I mean, I guess you'd give a fake name, but... That's so frustrating. I mean, maybe he had fake ID or something. That's never addressed. And I really expected her to like now know who the killer was. And that like never comes up again. I was like, you saw him. He's right there. Go figure out who that guy is. She got in her car and chased him down. No, that probably wouldn't have been safe, but it would have been for a better story. Yeah. So after this, after this confrontation at the jail, he's, Mel sends Michelle a series of threatening letters, which apparently he loves to do. He loves to like write down threats that are very provable that came from him. Not super smart. And after a while, those threats escalated.
her gate was her the gate at her home was torn off of its hinges her house was vandalized and an unidentified man hit her in the face breaking her nose oh my god she delivers this information like pretty casually like she does not seem this would have really shaken me up she doesn't seem like that shaken up she's just like look i've had to deal with some stuff you know looking into stories i'm mostly worried about my kids but yeah like yeah guy punched me in the face both my nose what you gonna do comes with the job what yeah yeah but she did say that those um the threats on stalking had died down since the book came out and i'm guessing that mel was just like it's too late right like they tried to scare her out of publishing and it didn't work so that's the end of the story the police believe michelle about the stalker but they never found the gunman or the stalker um And I can just read to you what is on the Unsolved Mysteries wiki. It is unresolved. Mel Green did appeal his sentence, but that was denied. He died in prison while serving a life sentence for Anita's murder. However, the hitman was never identified. Investigators believe that Michelle's theory about the man is accurate and are still pursuing new leads. It's like, well, it's been a while. I feel like this segment was very well told. Great story. Yeah, me too. Horrible tragedy for Anita and her family, but very well.
It was a very good depiction of this mystery. I agree. Okay. Now back to you, Samantha. So we have three more mysteries. And that means that some of these are kind of short. This one's a little bit short. This is about a fraud. There was totally an episode of Original Recipe Law and Order about this fraud. Don't surprise me. I just want to put that out there. So in this segment, we get to hear Robert Stack say swoop and squat multiple times. Swat. Swat. No, swoop and squat. Oh, it is? Yeah, squat. I watch with subtitles on. It's swoop and squat.
I thought it was squat. Why squat? Why? Why? Because you're stepping on the brakes. That's squatting. Honestly, I'm not really sure. But hearing Robert Stack say the word squat is really funny to me. And he says it multiple times. So this is about a fraud known as, like I said, swoop and squat. So we start out with like a...
news footage from like a news helicopter of a car accident on an interstate. And Robert Stack tells us this is an all too common occurrence. A car has collided with a truck along interstate five in Los Angeles. The firefighters have to pull someone out. It's a really bad deal. But Robert Stack says is unusual. What you might be surprised to know is that this was actually part of a fraud attempt. The fraud is called swoop and squat. It's a scheme which involves two or three cars and a victim.
These fraudsters tend to choose trucks. I assume it's because the trucks can't stop as quickly, so they are more likely to succeed with a larger truck. The trucks are probably more likely to be insured. But that makes this fraud in the scheme even more dangerous because they are doing this with... big trucks and they're usually the people perpetrating the fraud are in small cars so it can end in disaster so what happens is a large truck is chosen uh the first car is called the squat car and it goes in front of the truck while a second car boxes it in on one side sometimes there's two cars boxing in both sides the squat car tries to distract the truck driver while a third car uh swoops is called the swoop car and it gets into position the swoop car uh quickly drives in front of the squat car which causes the squat car and the victim's truck to slam on their brakes the truck then hits the squat car and the occupants of that car pretend to suffer from minor soft tissue injuries, which they report to an attorney who then makes the claim. We are told that because they typically complain of like vague soft tissue injuries that wouldn't show up on an x-ray, for instance, it's really hard to disprove them. Like whiplash, stuff like that. Right, exactly. And so the attorneys make millions of dollars in this scheme. The attorneys, Robert Stack tells us, are usually the ringleaders of these operations and they work out of office buildings, sometimes hundreds of miles away. It's interesting how complicated this fraud is.
Because, yeah, it's something that goes up to like much more powerful people than the people who are actually at risk of getting hurt. Right. And the other thing is, I feel like I've I can't recall a specific instance, but I feel like this is the type of fraud that people talk about and always blame the people who are like driving the cars, which they're not innocent either. But Robert's dad goes on to explain to us that they're kind of victims, too, because one, they could easily be killed trying to do this scheme. And typically the way it goes is that the ringleaders of these operations, again, working out of the safety of an office building, sometimes.
sometimes a long distance away, they recruit people who go around. It's like a middleman. They go around and recruit people who are probably desperately in need of money. And they pay them as little as $300 sometimes to perpetrate these schemes. Sometimes these people die because they're being hit by trucks. So it's a dangerous game. After the crash on Interstate 5, we're told that several swoop and SWAT drivers came forward and identified two of the brig leaders. And that's where this mystery is, is we're trying to find these two. They are Philman Santiago and Gary Miller. Santiago is a Mexican national who lives in Los Angeles. Papers in his apartment linked him to Miller, who was a prominent attorney. Miller has since been arrested, but denies any involvement in the schemes. And Santiago remains at large.
I just thought this one ended so abruptly, like almost like they had edited part of it out. Yeah, I thought that too. It was an extremely short mystery. And the result, I'm looking on Self Mysteries Wiki to see if there was an update. Yes, Gary Miller was sentenced to six years for vehicular manslaughter, fraud, and conspiracy, and has since been released. A few days before the broadcast, Philman Santiago was captured in Houston, Texas. He was convicted of vehicular manslaughter and sentenced to several years in prison. He has also since been released.
watchers of original law and order i can't remember what this episode was called but the actual bad guy was the insurance company in that because it was the person recruiting people because it wanted the fraudulent billing like it was making money on fraudulent billing i'm sure everybody wanted to know that okay i have a lost air and this appeals to me because it's about collecting old junk And Robert Snack waxes poetic about antiques. Yes, and he makes this claim that if you collect antiques, you'll get pulled into an unsolved mystery of your own. And I really am just waiting for that to happen to me. So this is the story of Jonathan Grady, a collector in Los Angeles. In 1980, he was out shopping when he saw a box of assorted junk. He asked the seller about some Bunsen burners that were in there, and she made him an offer for the whole box. She was basically like, get this out of here, which was apparently $50 back in 1980. And I have to say, that box of stuff did not look worth that at all. I wouldn't pay that now. It was like old Bunsen burners and oil cans. It's just like...
garbage i don't know why he paid this but he wanted some of that stuff and one of the things that was in there was this old family bible which was quite large and had very worn binding he only took it home because it came with other stuff he had bought um jonathan grady does have a stash which i wrote down attractive stash it's very neat if it's his face it's called the collector A lot of mustaches in this one. A lot of mustaches. So he thought maybe he would display the Bible in his living room, but when he took it to book finders, he learned it would cost $200 to $300 to repair, and he was kind of like, F that. So he just put it in storage and forgot about it, until one day, about a decade later, he was writing something, and he wanted a quote from the book of Job. And apparently, this was the only Bible he owned. So he pulled it out of storage to get the quote, and at this point, he saw an illuminated page in the Bible that he hadn't seen before. And this is in...
Something that used to be in old family Bibles where it has sort of a family tree. So it shows that the Bible was given to Charles Lazarus and Franny Bergman on their wedding day in March 25th, 1874. And since it used to be pretty common that a Bible was one of the few books a family would own, they used it to record the births in their family. So they were married in Cincinnati and they recorded the births of their two sons and three daughters, as well as the marriages of those children and the birth of their one grandchild. For whatever reason, Jonathan gets kind of obsessed with this Bible and he wants to return it to the family heirs. And it was like covered in some newspaper. And he got a letter from someone that was like vaguely related to them, but didn't know where they were anymore. I don't know. There's no update. And honestly, I feel like stuff like this must happen all the time. So I'm not sure why this got its own segment. Yeah, I was expecting there to be something more than just he wanted to return the book to them. I mean, that's nice and all. It is nice, but yeah, I'm not sure it's nice enough to be on TV.
Okay, so on Unsolved Mysteries Wiki, there's like tons of updates about this whole family, and I don't know that anyone cares. Is there anything good in there? How did Unsolved Mysteries Wiki find out? I don't know. Of interesting note is her nephew, Solomon Joseph Salty Saul Fleissman, who became a longtime Florida radio and TV personality, known much for his fishing enthusiasm. What is his name? Solomon Joseph, or Salty Saul Fleissman. Salty Saul? Yes. Salty Saul, known for his love of fishing, died April 20, 2000 at South Bay Hospital. Oh, Salty Saul, may he rest in peace. The most direct heirs to the Bible would be Philip Mortimer Light's nephews and nieces. The heirs to the Bible? Is it?
worth money the thing is i there's just the fact that it wasn't worth repairing like the this the spine binding on this like many old books has fallen apart so jonathan looked into getting it repaired and they're like dude it's gonna cost you two hundred dollars and he went never mind so i don't think it's not like he was like oh if i make a two hundred dollar investment this bible's worth thousands it's just an old family but it's like kind of cool but it's not i don't know if it's really that rare or valuable and it doesn't may not even be valuable to this family i kind of get the impression that's not like nobody seems to be looking for it they did get rid of it and I feel like lots of old junk you could probably trace to someone's family. They got rid of it at some point. And maybe there is someone in the family that would like it back, but I'm not getting that impression about this. I don't know why that deserves a segment of Unsolved Mysteries. So, you know, Jonathan seems like a nice guy. I tried to do a good deed, but whatever. It seems pointless to me. I appreciate his dedication to finding this family. Yeah, but I feel like you could do that with like, I have so many used books that are like two so-and-so. I'll love you forever. This person. And that ended up in the Goodwill. Like, am I going to go track that person down?
be like i don't know and they'll be like this on primetime tv right now they're gonna be like this is for my ex i never want to see this again how dare you i gave this to the goodwill for a reason yeah all right we have one more this one sucks i mean it's a good thing to bring attention to but it's just my absolute fucking nightmare so Yeah. And also, I don't know if there's an update. This one is frustrating and trigger warning for sexual assault on this one because it's not good. I found it upsetting, to be honest. This is a really short and kind of straightforward wanted segment. We are looking for Dr. Arvind Sinha.
He is wanted for six counts of rape to his female patients. I wrote down five mysteries and then it goes, wow, I hate this. And then it goes, I hope this guy is dead. I'm not going to kill him, but if it turns out he got killed in a swooping swat, I'm not too worried about it. I'm not going to be upset about it. So one of his victims is 19 year old. They call her Patricia. It's not her real name. She's also not shown in the Unsolved Mysteries, but we do hear her voice.
She says that on January 7th, 1992, she came into his doctor's office complaining of flu-like symptoms. She was very sick. She had a fever. She was not feeling well at all. She said that he came into the exam room and started acting strange, asking sexual questions that were completely unrelated to her illness and asking her repeatedly if she had a boyfriend. So gross. You can imagine what happened next. She left the exam office in tears. She was afraid to tell anyone there what happened, but she called her mother who contacted the police. They then took her to another hospital where she was examined. And then the police...
were involved as well. I think that's so brave. Me too. I can't imagine being in that situation at 19 and I totally understand. not trusting the other people this guy works with absolutely like you don't know them either you trusted him as your doctor and look what happened so yeah her mother was smart to take her to a different hospital um so be prepared to be even more furious because we find out that five other young women uh since january 1989 had reported him to the police for sexual assault however the california state medical board had chosen not to revoke his medical license because they said it was the I could have really spared other people so much pain.
Yep. I think this was, okay, I may have misspoke. I'm not sure at what point the police, Unsolved Mysteries made it sound like the police only got involved after Patricia reported him. I'm not exactly sure if that's true or not, but the state of California definitely received reports of his actions and chose to do nothing. Well, he had been moved to another clinic, right? Like he had had complaints at an old clinic and they fired him. So he just went somewhere else and did it again. Yep. So at this point, after Patricia arrested him, he was arrested after. That would be amazing. After Patricia arrested him herself.
She got deputized and went in. No, she shouldn't have to do that herself. Could you imagine? After she reported him, she was arrested by Detective Christine Gregg. Christine noticed that he was very strangely emotionless to the charges and all of her questions, which isn't evidence of anything except that he is clearly messed up. I don't know. Yeah, it's not evidence, but it is.
gross and disheartening like yeah it does make it all creepier somehow she said he didn't sound surprised he like showed almost no emotion he kept claiming that he maybe was being set up or something she said he had no response to her questions or charges except complete apathy which you would think he would have an emotion one way or another well she would say things like you've been charged with rape and he would just go how interesting like his response to everything was how interesting There's something very creepy about that to me. It's very creepy. It's bizarre behavior. It may or may not be evidence of anything, but it is creepy and bizarre. So the next day he posted bail and promptly disappeared. His medical license at this point was finally revoked. Police believe that Dr. Sinha is still in the United States, possibly working as a doctor, which is disheartening. They describe him and show a photo of him. I wanted to see if he had been caught, and I don't think he was. I hate this!
Oh, so the Unsolved Mysteries wiki says that the result is that he's still wanted, and that Unsolved Mysteries has stated that they no longer have contact information regarding the law enforcement agency that's handling his case. However, he is still at large. So what does that mean? The statute of limitations has kicked in? I'm sure it has. They don't say that, but at this point, I'm sure it has. Well, hopefully my wish came true, and the reason we haven't found him is because he's dead in the ground, and Magus ate all of his eyeballs, and there's nothing left to find. Let's hope. I mean...
I'm going to tell myself that's what happened to make myself feel better. Yeah. It's a bitter note to end on. It's a horrible case. I mean, I commend Patricia for coming forward. I'm sure that was not an easy thing to do. I'm sure for a lot of people that's actually like worse than the actual assault. So I mean, power to her, but to this, to be the result also, like she goes through the trauma of like reporting this and then it's just like, Oh, he got away. We have no idea where he is. Oh, so comforting. You know what? She should have gone and arrested him herself.
yeah okay let's rate this episode all right we have categories and our first one is mysteriousness okay actually kind of mysterious do parents have esp don't know want to know more about it um what was that guy on the motorcycle who killed anita where is he what is he up to like i it's not mysterious that mel was the you know ringleader there but they never found that shooter um the swat thing swoop and squads not mysterious but it is an interesting fraud case i think because it has such a there's so many like layers to it and um okay the bible is not very mysterious but then they never found the family so in a way oh true true do families have bibles thrown into unsolved mysteries to find out and then we have this horrible last case where this total jagoff was not caught so i'm gonna say pretty mysterious thumbs up thumbs up reenactments I liked them. Like we said, your first mystery was very well told. I felt like it had a storm arc to it. And I liked it a lot. Even though the one actor is wearing an absurd fat suit, I feel like it was pretty good. That was more costuming than the reenactment. Yeah, that's not great. I apologize for that, I guess. Am I responsible for that content? Look, I'm not pleased. But in general, I thought the reenactment was good. I thought that that segment has a nice arc to it. It's almost like a whole little movie or something.
you know yeah thumbs up why not why not fashion is our next one okay i thought there was some great fashion on this i particularly love the sweater that the antiques dealer who sells jonathan that box of junk is wearing obviously she can afford great sweaters if she's charging people 50 for a box of trash so she has this it might be mohair i don't know it's like brightly colored squares it's actually very chic and cute and i would wear right now um and i think we also got some what else like fashion so we got was jonathan in that same segment wearing a sweater vest or is that just how i remember him No, he had glasses. He did seem like a sweater vest kind of guy. Him and his collections.
Yeah. And I think we had some good mom fashion in the first one. Totally. Yes. And Anita's friend, Michelle too, had some like, I'm going to kick ass and take names, but it's also 1990. So yeah. Yeah. Thumbs up. It's not like a huge thumbs up, but still. Well, there's also all the mustaches, which we typically. Oh, that's true. There's so many mustaches in this one. So yeah, you got to give it a thumbs up. Yeah. And then Robert Stack's got to get a thumbs up from us too, right? He is on something in this episode.
had a quickie before filming and he's just like glowing he's so happy with life sometimes you can tell he's like i'm doing what what's this show i have to talk about aliens again like my career is in the toilet and then this episode he was like i don't maybe he was like moms are gonna love me after this one i don't know but he seemed in a great mood about it thank you stack thank you for sharing that with us that bliss just radiating out of him okay so let's see so we have five robert stacks is our rating scale obviously five robert stacks is better than one robert stack what would you rate this episode i really did like this episode i feel like it's pretty solid i like a variety of mysteries i like that we got five i like that there's no unnecessary updates um we have yeah a little supernatural a little fraud a little murder a little this a family bible for some reason um i would give it a four i think it's just like It makes you want to watch the next episode. You know what I mean? Agreed. Where you're just like, oh yeah, Unsolved Mysteries. This is good shit. Lay it on me, Robert Stack. What do you got next? Any more family Bibles that aren't with their families anymore?
Any more pets that have traveled extremely long distances? Give me more lost pet mysteries. I want so many more lost pet mysteries and so many more psychic parent stories. And just, like, prophetic dreams in general. Make this show about that from now on. Yeah. Yeah, please. Because some of these are just a little sad. Or very sad. Yeah, I would say this is a great one to, like, make sure your mom has watched. Yeah. Are you having your mom over for, like, a weekend? Put this on. Let's do a little crafting. Watch someone's like, oh, that sounds so good. It does, actually. Yeah. Make some sun tea.
That craft project isn't going to craft itself. No, it's not. Your little fingers got to get working. Okay, so is there a word for something you eat at the end of the meal? It's not dessert. Is there the equivalent of an amuse-bouche? I'm sure there is, and I'm also sure I've never eaten a meal like that, so I don't know what that would be called. Where they bring out the sorbet to cleanse your palate. This is the little palate cleanser part of the show, because we just ended with this horrible sexual assault, and this guy that got away, except hopefully he was eaten alive by rats.
just a little palate cleanser we'd like to end the show with a recommendation and probably the greatest tragedy of us moving to a bi-weekly format is that you get less recommendations oh oh i'm sorry that must be rough i will start it out with an update on a recommendation oh which if which if anybody recalls me talking about the sort of gothy clothing company fox blood i wanted to clarify i don't know this is always true but when i recommended that place i said that all their clothing was made in los angeles and our friend arden recently ordered something that the quality was like not very good like it was cute but it was not well made and we took it to this place to get altered and the woman was like yeah this was not made here and i don't really know like how she knows that but whatever and i looked at their website because i was like i swear i swear that in like you know preparing to recommend it i looked into this um and i noticed that it no longer says like across the website made in los angeles but certain items of clothing are from their signature collection and those are made in los angeles okay but not everything they sell falls into that got it so i felt bad since i had recommended this company and i had said that the quality was good and she ordered this dress and i mean it's cute but the quality of it is not great and the like lining of it was like weirdly sewed to the outer part in a way that like made it hard to wear and stuff like that anyway so i didn't want other people to end up having that experience based on my recommendation so i'm just clarifying that if that's important to you take a little look
Look around that website, make sure you understand why you're ordering, because I was not aware of that previously. But I did want to recommend the place that we took the dress to get altered, which is a tailor and sewing shop near me called Rethink Tailoring that is all about taking stuff you already own and sort of upcycling it or remaking it into something you will actually wear, which I think is very cool. So me and Arden went for their class that was all about creative ways to let out clothing, which is much harder to do than just make something smaller, but sort of creative ways to insert more fabric or whatever to make something that like... oh, I don't know, maybe you've been sitting around the house for a year and a half and your clothes don't fit quite the way that they did a year and a half ago. Maybe you would like them to be a little more comfortable, right? Or maybe you just wear more comfortable clothes now. I know that's true for me. Also very possible. And you're thinking to yourself, Liz, that's great, but I don't live in the witch district. What does this recommendation have to do with me? Well, don't worry. They have classes online.
so you could take a class from them to learn some cool sewing stuff and you don't actually have to live in minneapolis so they have classes on things like alterations there's hemming there's taking the sides of stuff there's letting stuff out there's a class i'm really interested in which is learning to sew from a pattern um you can also get like private sewing stuff like say you're working on a project and you're stuck like you don't understand what the next step of the pattern is and you don't know what to do like you could conference with the people at rethink and they would like help you through it I saw that they also do sewing machine troubleshooting, which that is a service that needs to exist. Let me tell you. Sewing machines really have a mind of their own. Every single one has a totally different personality. And yeah, sometimes you're just like, why is the thread in my bobbin always getting tangled up into a big hot mess? I don't understand what I'm doing wrong. So that is a service that they offer. I mean, you can also just like take their clothes there to get tailored and they have stuff that they've made to sell. But I think for, you know, most of the five out there, the best way to use their services would probably be these online classes. There's one on like hand mending.
yeah there's stuff about sewing machines whatever so if you're interested in that it's rethinktailoring.com and you have to look into their shop to see the classes which I think is slightly confusing but anyway that's where that's located and I think it is a cool service I know at this point the earth is dying and like us upcycling a pair of jeans is not going to save it I realize that but I there is a like thrifty midwestern part of me that just loves taking something and making something else out of it like well also maybe you just have a shirt that you loved when you could fit into it and you'd love to wear it again and if you can i mean i i know that i have shorts for example that i'm never going to be able to find another pair if those things wear out i'm going to be devastated yeah because it's so hard for me to find shorts i feel comfortable in and i'm not gonna be able to make a whole new pair of shorts so like if they get a hole in them it'd be really good for me to be able to just repair them and get some more life out of them yeah yeah there's just something to me like like a scrap quilt to make something useful out of just like nothing out of just like trash yeah it's like alchemy it's so amazing to me it's like wow you really like you really did that you really spun that straw into gold exactly so yeah i think it's pretty cool i took in a t-shirt that i for a band the drums that i really like but i've always hated the way this t-shirt fits and i can't get rid of the shirt no anyway so we worked on that it was nice arden brought in her dress that i feel bad that i recommended the place but now she gets it fits better so
Sorry, Arden. What is your recommendation for this week? I'm recommending a book. Okay. So I just read the book Six Days in August by David King. David King has written a bunch of nonfiction. It's the first book of his I've read. And I'm not going to lie, I picked it up only because the audiobook is narrated by my favorite audiobook narrator. I've talked about the series The Expanse a lot on the show. He narrates that series. And I've read some of the other books he's narrated, but I've never read nonfiction books that he's narrated. This one came out last year, and I was interested enough to pick it up.
And I really liked it. I will say, I was looking right before this episode started, I was looking at the Goodreads page for this book. And I noticed that it's one of those books that has more three and four star reviews than five star reviews, which surprised me a little bit because I really liked it. I feel like I would maybe give it four or four and a half stars. I should take a step back and describe what this book is about. It's the nonfiction story of the bank robbery that happened in Stockholm, Sweden, that resulted in the Stockholm syndrome diagnosis. Oh, interesting. It was the origin of Stockholm syndrome. Yeah, yeah. And this tells the whole story of that.
that heist, which I knew nothing about previous, I mean, I knew the general origins of it. And I know like the Stockholm syndrome, how it's portrayed in like movies and stuff. And this tells the story of that bank robbery. And like I said, the book doesn't have a ton of action, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't have a lot of interesting stuff in it. So the thing of it is, is that this robbery happened over six days. And for a lot of that time, they were just sitting there eating sandwiches. Like there wasn't a lot of action that was happening, but there was still interesting enough things going on. Like the police making baffling choices, the media doing a lot of different things.
What I liked about the book, too, is that the author tells the story of the bank robbery. And you know, because it's in the subtitle of the book, the story of Stockholm Syndrome, you know that this is like the origin of that supposed syndrome. And I haven't looked into Stockholm Syndrome beyond this book, but I can tell you that the way Stockholm Syndrome is depicted in popular media is like not at all what happened to these people who were held hostage by these gunmen. They absolutely did not fall in love with their captors. They weren't infatuated. They weren't even abused by their captors, which is how Stockholm Syndrome is portrayed. It's depicted as people being abused and then falling in love or sympathizing with their abusers. And whether or not that actually happens, I'm not totally sure. But what happened to these women, and without giving too much of it away, is mainly that the police in this situation bungled this robbery so poorly that the victims, the hostages in this hostage situation...
in my opinion, rightly so, feared that if anyone was going to kill them, it was going to be the police. And they just wanted desperately to leave with the robbers because they got to know the robbers. They understood their motivations. They understood that the robbers had no intentions and no desire to harm them. And the robbers' demand was to be, I mean, they demanded money, obviously, which they were given.
And they demanded to be allowed to leave with the hostages. And the hostages repeatedly said that they wanted to go with them. And people didn't understand why. But in retelling the story, you come to understand that they were just afraid that the police were going to go in guns blazing and that they were going to provoke a shootout and the hostages would be killed in the crossfire, which I think absolutely could have happened based on the behavior of the police. And then additionally, as the hostage situation goes on, you see this behavior on the part of the police towards the hostages that could only be described as cruel. They refused to talk to the hostages. They laughed at the hostages multiple times.
In contrast, the robbers treated them very well. And obviously, they were not being treated well in the sense that they were held hostage, but they actually spent six days with them, got to know them. There's a very interesting dynamic that happened in this situation, but it's nothing like Stockholm Syndrome is portrayed in movies and things like that. And part of that, there's an element of media sensationalism and things like that, which I think the police also had a hand in. And that kind of led to how we understand Stockholm Syndrome today. It's all very interesting, and I was surprised that it didn't get better reviews, but it does at times move a little slowly, but I think that's just...
uh a result of the fact that the situation moved slowly if that makes sense you kind of feel that like a lot of the six days were just people waiting around for something to happen um i thought it was a really good book obviously i recommend the audio book because the narrator is great um i enjoyed it's called six days in august by david king the story of stockholm syndrome it came out last year um i enjoyed it and it was also just a very interesting situation and i kept being like i can't believe this is how the police are handling this i mean would i know how to respond to a hostage situation no but i kind of know i wouldn't do all of the things they did yeah you would hope if you were the person in charge that you would have a better sense of like they shouldn't be just pulling us off the street and being like figure it out um do they explain why in diehard they keep calling it helsinki syndrome so distracting so distracting and weird no i don't know is that just a mistake I honestly don't know. Did they think that was trademarked and they weren't allowed to say it? Did they get the wrong city? I just don't know. It's so distracting. I never noticed that about Die Hard, but yeah, you're right. That would be extremely distracting. Okay. Well, as we ponder the origins of Helsinki syndrome, we'll wrap up this podcast. You can follow us on social media. You can go to our website, perhapsitsyou.com. You can send us a spooky story or a contribution to the zine at perhapsitsyoupodcast at gmail.com.
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Which I actually did watch another episode of. And there's no actual crimes, but there is some baked goods. There's a lot of baking. A lot of baking, though. You'll really want a cannoli after you listen to our coverage of Crime Scene Kitchen. So true. And, oh yeah, and you need to subscribe to this podcast. You need to do us a solid and hit that motherfucking subscribe button. And you should really leave us a five-star review of this, you know, on something that takes reviews, whatever that is.
Just saying that it's your favorite podcast, that you're so proud of us, that the show gives you hope for humanity. They always have good takes. They never get anything wrong. They always pronounce things right. These are all things you can put in your five-star review. Just giving you some ideas. How can podcast hosts so beautiful also be so humble? Yeah. Why are they the funniest people I've ever heard in my life? Why isn't the show more popular? That kind of thing.
I'm just spitballing some ideas to get you started. So you will hear from us again in two weeks, and we will bring you some more Unsolved Mysteries content. Thank you, everyone. Bye. Bye.