Welcome to the Mike on much podcast. I'm here with my friend and trust producer, Max Kerman. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Also with our pop culture, Christian Adashain Cunningham.
And I'm your host, Mike Vermin. Max, what's going on today? Guys, that breaking news. Who was that?
Guess who just broke up? Who? Nick and Vanessa. Oh, really?
Are you serious? Yeah, that's awesome. Okay, so for our listeners, right before we record it, like 10 minutes ago, Shane comes up to my desk and he says, hey, don't look at your phone. And I'm like, well, that's like frightening.
He's like, no, just don't look at Instagram. Okay. Something crazy just happened. Okay.
So I've been waiting in anticipation. That's the big news. Well, yeah, because pod fans were contacting my personal Instagram their messaging me. They're like, oh, you were right.
All this about the breakup. And I'm like, oh, sweet. And then I emailed Dan Crothers or webmaster Dan as we call him. Like don't tell Mike and Max this.
Don't put anything on socials. And then he's just like, I really don't care about this. But I like this about the pod. You should care.
And then all of a sudden, people started tagging at Mike on much. The news. So I was telling you guys not to check the phone, but I knew an engaged woman doesn't look at me like that. That was my big, exciting news.
So do you feel somewhat vindicated in predicting that they were? Well, I was feeling a little foolish from the story like I'm like, oh, you know, delusions of grandeur, all that stuff that I'm always accused of thinking that Vanessa was actually like, I mean, turns out she was. You're saying she was on the prowl on my trail. You were there, Mike.
What do you think? It seems like the evidence is in your favor. You were very good at making definitive statements about things and you're like with absolute certainty. You do it all the time.
And you're right. But you're right a lot of the time. Yeah. Yeah.
That's the why I make those statements. If I don't say them, I'm like, I was thinking that I should have said it. I'm going to believe me, especially when it comes to relationships stuff. I'm going to say, whatever a girl is breaking up with a guy, she has a guy ready to go.
That's another one of your. Oh, yeah. It's like I have a very low IQ, but a pretty high EQ. Emotional intelligence?
Yeah. Is that what the word is? That the Q is? Yeah.
Max and I both did not know that. Meaning that we would score low. Any sort of quotient test. But I want you guys to talk about the big thing that we're actually here to talk about.
Actually, before we get to that, have you ever taken an IQ test? I have not. I like to, I have suspicions about what I'd score and I don't want to be confirmed. I think you'd score really high actually.
Oh, Max. No, it's true. You seem to know a lot of it stuff. Is that your cell phone?
But yeah, I never know where I am and I've got a really poor recall and Mike's amazing at recall. Mike remembers literally everything. So I think Mike's like genius in that regard. I'm horrible at math.
Very dumb. Yeah. Me too. I can't remember anything.
Like studying any else like studying for biology or any of those subjects. We had to like remember a lot of stuff. I think you're the school. Smarty.
No, no, I was pretty. That was very average. You went to university though. I mean, all of people went to university.
The only ever since somebody went to university and somebody who didn't go to university is their parents going, you know, you're going to university. That's literally the only difference. Yeah. You're going to university from the other side.
You graduated high school. I said, no, actually I did not. That's what I'm saying. I was like, I listened to that.
I was doing big things. Yeah. But yeah, the reason why we're potting today is this is the release day of Taylor Swift's new single. That's correct.
And I'll be honest with you. I was we at Gig last night in Toronto. It was a charity gig and we were at the gig finish at like 11, 15 and then at 12 o'clock everybody was on their phone pulling up the new Taylor Swift single because it's been a bit of a countdown this week and what? It's just Mike and I had no idea this was happening.
This is a countdown. I've been waiting with faded breath. No, but you are right. Like as far as pop culture goes, it has been a big thing online.
We got a message at 107 AM emergency pod tomorrow morning and I woke up to that. I was like, holy shit, what happened? You're a Taylor Swift. I googled it.
I thought she died or something. I thought something huge happened. Yeah. And then I'm like, all I see is a single was released.
So I want to know your thoughts. Mike, I want to start with you. What are your initial thoughts on the Taylor Swift song? For me, it feels super on brand in the sense that she's sort of complaining about like an interaction.
I mean, I guess this time with the celebrity as opposed to a former lover. Yeah, she's I think it's worth thinking she's talking about Kanye West and Kim and maybe a little Katy Perry. It's hard to say exactly. It's it's it's with Taylor's sort of pension for airing out her dirty laundry or cathartically writing about experiences in her life and put them in the public form.
Shame. Well, I don't like to critique people too harshly because, you know, I always try to take risks and do different things, comedically or whatever. Like, you know, the red carpet gym care. And people always hate it.
Yeah. Any time I try something, it's like, Oh, like I come off bad kind of, but I will say she took a risk and I don't think it paid off. It's it's very lame. It's extremely lame.
And I appreciate the risk, but it's like when Garth Brooks was Chris Gaines. And I'm very fond of reference for all of her listeners. But it's a reference I can pull from of a horrible failure of someone trying to rebrand. He played SNL as Chris Gaines.
Crazy move. And the part in the song where she's like, Hello is Taylor there whoopsies, she's dead. It's like, ah, that's embarrassing because you can't change who you like you can't pretend to be cool. I've tried, you know, you spoke cigarettes for a week or something and you're still watching Bachelor in Paradise and there's tattoos all over your arm.
Exactly. But I'm I'll never be cool. You know, so you can't pretend for more than an hour. So that's what's lame about it.
She's trying to act like she can the old Taylor's dead. The old Taylor's not dead. The old Taylor's pretending she's cool. Yeah.
All right. Well, Max, you convene this emergency pod. So what are your thoughts? You're a big taste with fan.
You're a huge fan. Yeah, I am. And I was very excited about this song because she has kind of an immaculate record. She's on her fifth record now.
And each album she's produced like massive hits that aren't just big because she's like a big star. They're big because they're great songs. Yeah, she's a golden goose. She's a golden goose.
And like when she came out with her last track, 99, the first single was Shake It Off. And I remember driving this driving up Avenue Road. I still remember where I was when I listened to it. I was like, this is pop bliss.
This is a song that every cover band is going to play for the next 40 years. And she's like, yeah, exactly. And so there's a lot of pressure in that because as you say, seven hit singles. I'll tell us.
I know it's crazy. And she went off the previous one and off the previous one before that. She's actually she's incredible songwriter. So that's why as a songwriter and as an artist who's also trying to evolve, I was like, where is she going to go next?
And when I saw the snake video thing happening, I was like, are you going to go down that road, which is like Kanye, your snake or Kim, your snake. So I was like hoping, but she's already, as you say, she's good at airing her dirty laundry, but she's always sort of done it in a playful way or sort of like in a joyful way where you still get that sort of like sense like pop ecstasy, like blank space or even mean, do you mean that song mean? Yeah, like it'd be so mean. Yeah.
And so she's really good at that. So I was like, I wonder if she's going to go down sort of this a little more like cynical, dark route. And on the song she has, it's like not as joyful. It doesn't have a big story in chorus that I was hoping for.
Sounds like a fergie song. Well, there's a lot of people saying it sounds like one funny song. And so I was like, okay, when I first listened, I was like, I don't like it. Actually, my friend Matt Fruckman, book club, Mattie, as our summer cast fan, I know Matt's called me and was so furious about it.
He was, I could be like, read you actually some of the text messages. He was a wide detailer, Swift, do this. And for me, he has actual talent. This is horrible.
It's like a bad Britney song from 03. Like who thought this was a good idea? And then I called them, and he went on to rent for about 10 minutes. Like screaming at the top of his lungs on his phone.
It was funny. But then I was starting to think I was like, okay, where is the song gonna live? Because obviously, my idea, going into the song was like, this is gonna be another big feel good, like a Rene rocker. But then with our manager, Ashley, and Sheila's right by the village, and she's like, honestly, there's probably like, every gay nightclub right now is probably pumping the song loud, and people are going nuts for it.
And then I pulled, and I pulled myself into like, you went to a gay club? Yeah, like, I had to see for myself? No, no, but then I put myself in like the club world for a second. I was like, oh this and I was like the like the smokey Like lights.
Yeah, you and your hockey bros. Yeah, I mean my hockey bros You know honestly and and then I thought of all the champagne boys in Miami and we're going to Miami that's you know week and There's no doubt that's always gonna be played in the club And we're all probably gonna go nuts for it. I think okay could be like um remember sexy back came out just in terms Yeah, and everyone hated that and song and then like I hated that song and then it got in my brain like permeated in there And then a week later I was obsessed with it That's what I'm saying is I think and then I then we listen to it probably like five times In fact ashes and we just like put it on repeat. I was like, okay I can kind of see and the pre-course is actually massive the pre-course actually has like a lot of like melodic juice Do it and then actually was kind of going down the internet rabbit hole and she said the three tweets that Taylor Swift has liked There's one for promo for The first the college football game of the season Alabama versus Florida which in middle America Trump's America is you know the biggest attraction Two it's it's a promo for some Shonda Rhimes show some network show on ABC And she's also gonna be debuting the music video on the MTV video awards So she has all these looks that are really big It's like as you say it's gonna permeate the culture very quickly and the last thing I'll say is that when you think about where a song lives and I thought about this one with our tells just just from like oh my god This is like knocking the door in the sports montage or whatever and you're like oh, that's that's really it kind of gives the song a new meaning A new life.
There's so many like murder mystery shows out there like 13 reasons why or just like dramas on Netflix and and movies that that song is gonna Be perfect for can you that's always gonna be in every trailer sure right like lyrically? It's just like kind of perfect for it So it didn't check off the initial box of like this is like a powerful triumphant song that they might play the Olympics or something like that But it did check off all those other boxes, which which which then you're okay I see a path of this and maybe if she had like a similar song that was a bonafide hit similar to her last album People would be criticizing that yeah saying oh like she's just doing the same more of the same The other thing I was thinking about was the guy who produced the song is a guy who I'm always jealous of Jack Anton Oh, yeah, I didn't know he produced it. I know they're tight though Did he also did out of the woods out of the woods. Yeah out of the woods.
Yeah, yeah now lunch with that guy once what yeah I'm Jack Anton. Yeah, he was in the band fun. Yeah, and we shot a promo in Montreal with him and a lunch with him What was you doing today? Scarlett Jansen?
I know he's dating the another yeah, he was nice guy. All right, so Taylor Swift play or nay play In different I say nay for now, but only time will tell yeah The other thing I'll say is I'm just excited for the roller because you know She has many tricks up her sleeve for like the next three months because records come up over 10 And the other thing is that the theorizing going around these the song and the record roll out is kind of incredible Like for instance, you know the tilted stage thing that's a Kanye West Also, I didn't know this but somebody texted this to me this morning Apparently November 10th the day release is the tenure anniversary of Kanye West's mother passing and like I was like that has to be Coincidence, but apparently people say Taylor is so calculated that would be very cold. Do you know she died by the way? It was like positivity or something.
Yeah, she's getting breast augmentation. Oh, I never actually knew what this surgery was. Is that true? Yes?
It's very sad. Yes. Yeah So that I'll never 10th Max is taking this on Shane's not having it check it out Let's know what you think we're gonna have auntie Donny you on the show I was texting her this morning and she has a lot of thoughts on this would love to get anstance thoughts on all of this Okay, but speaking of female performers today on the show we have Grace Mitchell as well as your old friend River Tiber That's right Tommy. That's right.
We did these interviews at Oceaga Shane and I Shaney boy. Yeah, I said some stuff in this one That's right. So Grace was interesting because she said some things about Wonder Woman and not thinking that it was sort of the feminist Empowering movie that everyone had been championing it as and I thought she was very young She's 19 and that seems to be sort of like one of the things that she finds I guess frustrating is that people either are dismissive or they expect her to be underwhelming and they're like Oh, you're good Like she she's so tied to her age that she thinks that she'd sort of be a non-issue Huh, and so we talk about that and sort of where she's coming from in that regard and then we had River on and for listeners The pod who listen to the now the potato interview He has mentioned there and I bring up a story about Tommy because he produced the first ever max Kerman Solar record first and only it's a max stories. Did he we asked about you?
I haven't listened to this yet. So I'm kind of excited. Yeah, he might he may or may not have some old recordings of you He's gonna burn those things man. He's gonna put him out, bro Yeah, I say the max Kerman solar record is the first time ever recorded anything and I was 15 years old So pretty cool though the fact that you know this guy River Tiber goes on to do great things We're gonna know for Tato Drake has used his music his beats and you were working with him back when you guys were teenagers before Drake Ever heard of just a couple Toronto kids.
No make him magic. So something like that. You guys want to get the interviews? Let's do it.
How are you? Hello? You seem like a little trepidation. It's super fucking tired crazy time.
You just came on stage Yeah, how was it? It was really good. We just came from Chicago No, Boston and we were we were in the van for like five hours. We haven't got any sleep So we're tired you just rolled into town and got on stage.
Yeah, it's your birthday tomorrow early happy birthday from the both of us Thank you the big two zero Birthday is yeah, I'm excited. It's not so creepy now that I'm not 19 that I'm dating like a 30 year old Anymore well, I guess my question would be about birthdays in aging in general some people have hang up so getting older some people Like getting older where do you fall in that spectrum? I like getting older. I think that I get stigmatized a lot as being Like a very young I am a very young artist and so people like to assume that my music is gonna be I think underwhelming and That is challenging to try and combat because I want to be kind of always Impressing people and challenging them and when they you know, it's not always a compliment when someone says like oh my god You're so good for being 19, you know, I mean like I always want to buy it.
Yeah, I want to be good because I'm good You know so so the idea that getting older maybe people have preconceived notions Yeah, exactly. I hope that that will change the only that I got in some ways though It's kind of like an opportunity to blow people away Yeah, you know because if you go in and they don't expect the best it's kind of like a nice little edge Yeah, totally. I mean it's gonna be a bummer in the future when everything that I do is gonna be as exciting anymore You're underwhelming age. Yeah, it's funny.
It's like a two-way two-way street. You grew up in Portland. Yeah, what's your parents do? My they my dad did something called he's a fundraising coach Which means that he was kind of raising money for high school sports teams to get like equipment that I needed and my mom Just was a stay-home mom cool So that's like a job so he would like find ways to raise the money for these schools Yeah So like if if like your football team need a new helmet see would find ways to make money so that you can have new helmets, right?
Yeah, are there artistic people? Yeah, they're pretty artistic. My mom is Is good at songwriting? I think that she probably was the segue into me doing a lot of creative writing and songwriting interesting Do you guys ever go right together?
No, you do your own thing and she does her. Does she ever present you songs like hey? Maybe try this one out. She does but we got boundaries.
We got boundaries about that When you decided to go into this thing and I mean obviously like you said part of your narrative is how young you are Where they supportive like did they see this as a viable career because it's such a hard industry to make it No, they were super supportive. I think that they both From a young age wanted me to pursue whatever what felt passionate and if I you know because a lot of kids I don't feel like have passions that I have many passions I don't really know what to pursue and I was pretty dead down doing music and so they were supportive of it You had a narrow focus from the start. Yeah, I was like I think I'm good at this and I didn't feel like I was really good at anything else so Music so natural and organic right do you I mean are you naturally sort of an ambitious person like you know Because some people get a music because they're from around It's like they just like enjoy creating and then other people have like a sort of an eye on the prize Where do you fall on that spectrum? I?
Think that I'm I would say I didn't quite catch that question I'm sorry it's like raining so loud people that listen to know that it's raining so loudly here at us. Yeah, but anyway What were you saying basically some people get into music and they're just you know? They like to create ambitious yeah, and do you are you someone that has really I'm going to make a career in music And this is how I'm going to do it. Yeah, 100% I think that from the beginning I've been like okay, even if at some point I want to pursue some other artistic form of creativity I'm gonna be able to do it through the catalyst of music So if I just kind of continue to pursue it and give it my all then it's gonna be the propeller for whatever I want to do in the future artistically so yeah, I would say I'm pretty ambitious about my career right I guess when you see success sort of pretty early on like I guess how do you go from creating in your home to then playing at a festival like Oceaga It's a long process.
I was doing like small coffee shop gifts and like Open mics and stuff and then I just kind of spiraled one thing led to another and then I was coming down to LA to record What's that step does someone see you in the coffee shop or you just head LA? Yeah? No, I was I was it's very very complex story but basically I was scouted in an airport for modeling and I was like 13 and they were like do you have any talents and I Like to do songwriting and I do a lot of performing in my small town And they're like okay, we'll show us and then they set me up with a model agent who wanted to cross over to music management He had a couple contacts in LA and then I met who was my now current manager Kevin held through this old Hookup and it has kind of all gone from there So like I would say probably the initial moment was being scouted in an airport for modeling And also I happen to be neighbors with this guy named Richard Swift who is this kind of like Pretty underground like indie influencer guy and he was just one of my neighbors. So it was like yeah It was that was a good win score.
Yeah, you know, you use your social media to champion causes such as like women's or LGBTQ Right is speaking out something that sort of comes natural to you And I guess like it was a case of like I have a platform and I want to use it now I thought maybe I won't say something no I am really vocal I have a lot of opinions that are like either fully formed or like continuing to form in my adult life So I just want to kind of share them and get feedback from people I really like when people correct me or teach me new things Especially online when I can like like shout something into the void and then get a bunch of people commenting back being like This is what you should say. This is how we feel and it is this wonderful collective to figure out like more and more about how I feel about Human rights and like activism and feminism and the LGBTQ community. It's so I love the internet Yeah, and it seems like you don't you don't mind throwing like a half-baked thought because some people will be like okay This is what I want to say though curate it to figure out you're like throw it out there I also like to incorporate comedy into a lot of my opinions about feminism and activism Because I think that there's a lot of there's while it's really important to be politically correct and sensitive and all-inclusive when you're speaking about a community I think it's also fun to be like Have like some sort of self-awareness regarding it in like a comical sense because it makes everything lighter You know what I mean? Yeah, we're gonna worry that someone's gonna take the joke the wrong way and you don't care right?
I don't give a shit. I think it's sensitive like I like I have so much continuity throw my interviews to prove that I Want to be like I am a feminist like I I believe all these Values regarding human rights and making sure that everyone is treated equally that I think that sometimes I can just say some Some shit in the name of comedy and people will get offended But you know what people get offended you know what I mean? Well by the nature these issues are sensitive so people tend to be sensitive about these issues But you feel like your track record is infallible when it comes to your intentions Yeah, I would say that no one could look at Grace Mitchell the person and be like oh, she's she's insensitive or she's you know Being cruel because I it's not coming from a place of cruelty kind of one of my favorite comedians is Amy Schumer Yeah, I love how she takes feminism and gives it a really dark funny twist It's like super intellectual dark comedy and I love that shit hilarious to me. Did you like her leather special?
Yeah, I did I thought oh so funny I love when she talks about sex I talk about sex a lot And so it's fun to see how she takes the female gaze of sex and like turns it around and flips it's good speaking of feminism You tweeted about Wonder Woman. Yeah, you know, obviously a lot of people are treating it Yeah, I'm a movie terrible movie. I hate it. Yeah, I didn't like it either actually.
It was weird and not a popular opinion No, it's bad movie. I don't yeah I have a lot of I see a lot of movies and I form strong strong opinions like the second that they start didn't like one woman I wasn't a feminist film though. It wasn't a feminist film for a lot of reasons firstly the biggest point that actually someone else pointed out to me is that she is Literally an object to her purpose and the entire movie is to be a tool for other gods to use like this is the Antificesism and that is the objective of the entire plot is that she's a tool so just to begin there That was kind of frustrating to see I think that there was a lot of sexualization a lot of Stereotyping hot Foreign girl who is unassumingly intellectual but also needs help from man to succeed It's like a lot of classic plot lines regarding like feminism. Excuse me.
I'm the antithesis of feminism really if she wasn't like classically beautiful Let's say let's say she had like a unibrow or whatever I think about beauty necessarily I think that I think that that beautiful women can be hyper hyperfeminist like Candace wonderful or like for example like Emma Stone And it's not necessarily about like traditional beauty I think what was happening a lot in that film in particular though was this Objectification of foreign women, which is a huge thing in our culture in particular Do you think that like a film like that? You're lucky like oh it's a great film to have for young girls to like look up to a strong model Do you think it's better to have a film like that than maybe they can have a lot or you think it does more damage because of Be sort of underlining things that maybe people don't see on its face I think there's a lot of subconscious things in that movie that are still Perforating minds of young people. I think a really fantastic feminist film is frozen actually sure I think that was it for kids I think that's a fantastic film Zootopia I think Zootopia is an amazing I love that movie all about like like Standing against like Basically the man yeah, and like lately talking about racism, which is incredible. I love all of the like Pixar Disney films coming out lately They're so good.
They're smart. Yeah, it's funny. What's the best movie saw this year 2017? I can't stop thinking about Dunkirk.
Oh, I love that movie It was the first movie that I've ever seen that made me feel I mean, it's obviously didn't take place in America But it made me feel really patriotic for some reason and I thought it was an incredible Beautiful film I saw it at the Arklight and Hollywood and 70 millimeter. Oh, so it was it was really it was like an experience It's so intense. It's like unrelenting like yeah, so intense the score is incredible. There's such minimal dialogue crazy I really also love Guardians of the Galaxy.
Oh, that's great. Yeah, that guy knows how to make movies James Gunn both of those films are really good A lot of funny feminist undertones in Guardians of the Galaxy actually if you really take it apart I like that movie a lot. Did you see get out? I didn't see get out because I don't watch horror movies.
Oh, okay That's just like your rule. No, no, no, I was very tempted to see get out when it first came out, but I yeah Again, I don't watch horror movies. So it's more the thriller type comedy. I think you like it.
I'm see it Yeah, I think I see it. I think it's not necessary. I want to see so eventually well I guess we'll end on a cover question get back to the music so you've covered Hollen Oates you cover post Malone Yeah, we had post Malone on the podcast. Oh, we're another guy.
Yeah, it was his wedding song What Iverson was my like first and song so we got my wife and I both were playing basketball and stuff and I was Another player so we had post signed his wife's wedding photo. Oh my gosh, that is the fun. I love that story Wow, yeah, he's what a character guys a cartoon. I love him.
Yeah, so anyway, what bands or songs? I guess are on the list for your next cover. I am gonna be doing a cover actually that's gonna coming out soon of Gary Clark, Jr's bright lights It's about New York City. So you can look forward to that.
It's a fun cover recording it like not right now. Yeah, all right Yeah, I don't even feel like I don't know if I was supposed to share that but I'm not scared. I don't care. You do what you want Thanks so much for your time.
Thank you guys. I really appreciate it. We're just gonna roll. We'll jump right in Sing.
How you doing? Good. How are you good? I think it was a connection here.
So, you know Max from our Kels I do yeah, he went to high school with my sister. Yeah in Toronto and I Mean I recorded like some of his like early demo stuff in our basement when I was like 12 years old Those are like some of the first records that I ever produced technically, but it was really on like a I don't know It was I didn't even know what production was or anything else like that It's just you know present playing it turn in the knobs and stuff. You're the guy with the gear though. Yeah, Max needed to I had like a little it was like a fostex.
Oh, yeah track recorder or something. It was really simple and yeah I don't know what was a Maxie boy like back then. I mean as far as I can tell you know same guy cocky as hell I mean he was going it. Yeah, that's nice.
Just all those tracks. Yeah, there's somewhere that's gonna find them. Yeah, I mean That'd be pretty funny. Yeah, I'm here though.
I said your like such a random connection. They're probably nobody could have guessed Yes, so we're in full was funny because we were interviewed another for Todd. She was on the show Yeah, and she meant to know that you guys working together. Yeah, and Max was like holy shit.
He's like my first recording Yeah, yeah, that's what it is. Um, so you know, shout out Nelly for Todd. She's a legend And she's like one of the nicest people I've ever met and she's just amazing genuine in time. Yeah, which is somebody that successful?
No, it's it's my boy. She's a wonderful person. Yeah, how that come about that collaboration. Um, Actually, just like Twitter.
I think like that's when we first talked, you know, like I think that maybe she heard some of my music or something That we just we're talking and we got to meet when I was in LA and Yeah, we just we just really hit it off. So she's sitting here DM The public side of Twitter, right, right? I love like Canadians to it's like oh, we end up like meeting up in LA It's like people can be in the same city, but then you finally meet up like down in like another. I know yeah It's funny like that and it's always out late too.
Like every time I go there I see like just Toronto people I only think I would turn on people you should like to extend it stays or just kind of like go down There for business and that for the most part. That's what I've done But I really want to go down there this winter and like stay there for a few months because you know, I mean It's the best. Yeah, but it never changes. Yeah, it's good time for to get a Canadian winter So like Drake's used to music a lot of people know about that.
How does something like that happen? Like for our listeners, it's always like I was one of my new show how these things can roll out Yeah, so how does that work for you? I mean I would just say there's so much that goes on behind the scenes with any of those big records, you know with all the producers working on stuff and like That's kind of the general thing that I would say about how stuff like that happens Like what you say behind the scenes like what we mean like they're just looking for different artists for well like that for instance was That was just like I was working with Frank Dukes and then he was working with boy Wanda And then boy Wanda was wearing a drink. It was like a whole train of events and yeah, I mean I think that um Like especially in Toronto, there's tons of producers collaborating.
Toronto's like a producer hotbed, you know It's funny because I think most people talk about the artists But the producers are like it's crazy how much depth there is in Toronto and a lot of stuff that kind of goes on behind the scenes That people aren't even really acknowledged. I mean Frank Dukes for instance It's like it's one of the biggest producers on the planet, you know, he's killing it and people don't even like I don't think I don't think you said I get the recognition they deserve I guess I mean I guess that's what it is to be a producer though, you know like I don't think that anybody's like seeking it or anything I just mean it's funny because I think Toronto actually has like a lot more than even people realize right there's so much time People talk about it but you're saying it goes even deeper Yeah, it goes even deeper like there's a lot of records that people probably don't even realize were made with with you know Like this like this circle of producers in Toronto that are just killing it, you know, yeah Yeah, so I guess how much like if you time do you want to sort of like when you are deciding what to do or how to divide your time and energy? How much do you prefer to be in the studio or on stage? I definitely like these days.
I like being in the studio. I kind of I mean I'm in like kind of a transition period Artistically like I'm just really trying to figure out a new Live thing and kind of just I'm just reevaluating what I want to do as a performer and what I want to express as a performer But in the studio I feel like I'm really in a flow right now and so I feel more comfortable But I mean I spend most of my time in the studio compared to on stage. I love traveling though Like so the beginning is good because you get to go to the places. Yeah, and also I I've like really honed in on my little portable studio situation So now I feel like I can keep working on the road Which is always a challenge I feel like every artist is always talking about how it's impossible to get anything done on the road But I feel like I've sort of made that my focus to try and be able to make the most of my time because You know, I've been I've been playing a lot of shows over the past year and it's really slowed me down as a producer In a way sure so I'm trying to make it just works in biotically and like you fly more or drive around mostly flying Yeah, mostly flying so you don't mind the annoyance of the airport one time not like I got nexus.
Oh Nexus changes everything for real like Yeah, I don't know. I mean I like air travel is the worst obviously but Again, I just sort of try to make it as worthwhile as possible like I play a video games on the plane I do like the trick where you like figure out a way to get first class every time if you get enough miles No, like I did fly enough to get so that I can like get in the faster boarding lane or whatever It's just that much but no, I never fly first class. I'm up on the way here. We're not breaking But it just happened nice.
I'm just land. Well, I have my moments I know what I do though. I hit the preferred CSS like the cheapest way to get a little bit more room, you know That's like like the exit or something like exactly yeah I just like a regular seat, but it's like 50 bucks more whatever I got all the time. That's what I play it Yeah, that's pretty good I try to even produce on the plane sometimes But it's like it always you get off and then it's like all the frequencies that the plane was making that like oh, yeah It's like that's just you can hear that in the music if you know what I mean Like you can hear the fact that you were listening to that the entire time while you were What you're creating?
Interesting. Yeah, I mean there's like you know there's artists that have like super technical training and there's some like you know Who didn't go to school and like that you did some time at Berkeley? I did yeah How did that sort of help you in what you're doing today and what you're trying to achieve? I mean it's funny cuz like when I studied there, it's not the most related to what I'm doing now You know I didn't do any production or singing or anything like that.
I was basically just Doing like theory and guitar and stuff, but I definitely Opened my mind to a whole other way of thinking about music and yeah I mean that was that I spent two years there. Yeah, and yeah, I feel like I feel like I got a lot more confident in just being able to Analyze what I'm even doing, you know, I think When I first started playing music, I mean in a way, it's like this is the most pure That's that's like the most pure time when you don't you don't necessarily know What to how to describe what you're doing in like technical terms? Yeah, and let's be that language Yeah, exactly, you know like theoretical stuff and I definitely Feel like I have a vocab now where it's a lot easier for me to be like, okay I'm repeating myself here or something like that, you know, like mostly just mostly just uh Honestly like basic theory and like harmony and stuff like that, you know Oh back to basic and so you found that there's value in that it didn't feel like a I think some people get caught up in it You know and they start making music from a technical perspective where they're thinking about whether doing before they're even doing it But I feel like I still I don't access that part of my brain at all when I'm in really creative mode Like I'm just flowing and then after the fact I might be able to be like, you know, like why is this not working or Why is this and then you dig into sort of the math of it? Exactly.
I'd see a behind the or the classic albums with Phil Collins years ago Yeah, and he doesn't just like he doesn't read music or anything But he would like here You know what you want to do with the horns say yeah You draw it like dots yeah for the guys that are exactly and then they would be able to make sense of what he wanted out of it Yeah, that's just it I mean really learning the vocab of of music theory. It's not you're not necessarily Expanding your musicality or your creativity or anything. You're just kind of learning to speak a certain language and be able to Explain yourself better, you know, it's like I don't think that you could learn how to be a dope musician by learning that stuff Just to learn it technically doesn't really help you create. Yeah, I value.
Yeah, but certainly it's like in that case It's like it would probably be helpful if you just kind of learn some like how to chart the horns or whatever like that's easier It's not I don't know. Yeah, I feel like that's a pretty I hear that debate all the time You know about about kind of the technical aspects getting the way of the creativity Yeah, I mean, but I don't know I think you can pretty easily just use it as a tool not let it get in the way Let him go to the stage unless you have one more question. Do you have Drake's number in your phone? No Have you guys met?
Nope never just always that's interesting. No, do you get the Drake question a lot every interview right? I was like we should probably say you know everyone else is second, but well if you play basketball Michael Jordan I want to hear about it. You know, I'm trying to break my door.
Yeah, so that's an app comparison. I don't know Yeah Welcome to the desserts as always we're here with our friend and pop culture aficionado Shane Cunningham Shane what's good? Well, as you know, you recently kind of tried to hook my wife up with a gig I did you did Yeah, oh with jewels gasic. Yeah, so our friend Jules It was a casting director put out like an open casting call for young basketball players Like you had to look young and so I reached out to your cousin-in-law Jess and then also you about Alex And I said hey like they all ball they look great like they should go over this thing They could get in a feature film I wasn't sure if Alex would like to do it I had a feeling she might because Alex is kind of very up for anything and very enthusiastic and very confident about everything So I was like hey, would you want to do this this audition?
It's for high school students? So you got to look between 16 and 18 so Alex was like sure and Alex is 28 which is a high school teacher I did that she's a high school teacher and she's also a basketball coach, but she's totally down and I'm like, okay It's the day after we get back from our PI trip. So perfect. She seems like everything's going to go fine with that So she's like okay It's at seven o'clock on Wednesday some p.m.
But you want to get or at dinner in Toronto like sure so she'll go to the audition Come back. We'll go have dinner. Okay. I'm gonna go to Toronto a little early and practice basketball because a component of the audition is That she's to play a little bit they videotape her playing ball You have to have legitimate basketball skills and you know My wife is almost better than me at basketball.
Yeah, she's a baller In fact when I submitted her picture and we did a little video audition to even get her into this audition I said she's better than me at basketball a little hyperbole, but that's what you got to do it. Yeah, big man. So 5 p.m. On the day of the edition.
She's like I'm here come out. I'm like, what do you mean? You're here? Like come out.
Let's go for dinner and then we'll shoot around and I'm like no I can't I'm at work Like I figured you go to the edition take 50 minutes and we need after I really need you like oh man I don't want to go to this addition I don't think going with your husband is good if you're playing a high school student Like that's not gonna help your 34 year old husband. Yeah, and like I don't look young and this is gonna be really awkward for me But her voice is weird. It's not confident. So I'm like, okay.
Give me an hour. We're swamped at work. Yeah So at six I come out and she got me a little bit of food or whatever I come to the car and her face is like beat red. She's like oh the ball won't pump She's like the ball won't pump and I'm like what do you mean?
She bought a new basketball, but it came deflated. Yeah, and she bought a little pump for it, but she couldn't figure out how to pump I'm like, well, did you put the pin in? She's like, yeah, but it went going all the way. I'm like, did you wet it?
She's like you got a wet it. I'm like, yeah, you know, you play basketball. You know, you got to wet the pin She's like my dad used to do that. I just thought he liked wedding things I'm like give me give me the pump up the ball two seconds.
It takes the pump up I just wet it stick in the pin all the way. I don't know about this wedding thing. Are you serious? Have you ever pumped up your own ball?
Yeah, you gotta wet it with your own spit. He was getting his balls pumped up by Alex's dad Oh, John is great work. So the balls when she's starting to feel better, but her face is broken out a little bit Oh, Jesus, but she kind of saw the good for the role. Yeah, she sees herself in the mirror She was all the good news is I broken out in some zits.
Yeah, that is good Honestly, you look younger and she's wearing a cute little jersey and little shorts and she really looks young like really looks young So we go we we start going to the addition and we're passing the gym and all of a sudden There's all these 16 year olds like tall 16 year olds athletic looks and beasts like these girls look like they're really good at basketball And Alex starts shaking. She's getting really weird. I'm like, this is not the Alex I know she's not like that. She's always super confident So I don't know what to do it.
We get out of the car. I'm like, hey, give me your wedding ring Don't wear a wedding ring to a high school edition put it in my pocket I ever walk kind of a little bit ahead of me because it's just a weird situation We walk into the audition and there's all these stage mums with their kids And they're just glaring at Alex because Alex is you know She wanted the prettier ones she looks young and they don't like her and they're really glaring at me like who's his father? Yeah, exactly and I don't know what they're thinking of me and I don't know how to play this But uh, so they give Alex a clipboard with a bunch of papers where she feels it is for information Luckily, they don't ask for her age on the paper But you just gotta fill out like your shoes eyes are high your ears of basketball experience Whatever but Alex is trembling and she so she doesn't know what to do She drops the clipboard on the floor the papers go flying everywhere No, and I'm kind of standing there because I don't want to help her because I don't really want to be associated with her So she puts the papers together she gets it up to right against the wall and drops it again Papers goes doing everywhere and I'm just saying they're watching her pick it up again But people are looking at me kind of looking at Alex picking it up She's kind of bent over with her butt out and I'm like this I'm gonna help her pick it out I'm like, it's okay everything's gonna be good. Uh, just fill this out.
It's not your name Alex because I can't sign my name so she she couldn't sign her name anymore like she was so scared So she grabs it and kind of does this weird thing like okay doesn't matter about your signature It's done and then I see Jules the casting director. Yeah, I feel so much better seeing her She was my wife Gives me a big hug and then I'm like perfect I'll just act like I'm kind of working here and I want to see Alex's audition I want to I want to get into the room that the parents aren't allowed to get into Someone Jules can I watch her do her little basketball thing? I'm like she's really good I'm impressed to see how she's gonna like school these girls. She goes oh yeah great come with me like you're VIP with me Perfect so they they wrangle all the young girls and I'm getting close and girls are going through Alex is in a group of four younger girls and they're talking about each other's ages and there's one girl and uh she goes I'm 20.
I'm a little embarrassed and all the other 16-year girls go Oh my god, you're 20 And then they look at Alex and go you're 16 right and Alex just smiles She doesn't do like Alex is like frozen and smiles Gets out of it just doesn't say anything goes into goes into the gym goes into the gym and there's a guy there with a camera He's like all right girls. You might be nervous. We're gonna start it real easy You just got to do a layup and uh, so Jules is like I'm gonna film this for you. This is gonna be really uh cool I'm like cool.
So Alex is first in line. She runs up almost trips over the ball takes four step and chucks it off the Backboard and the ball goes almost over to the half court line Like what is happening like Alex is really good basketball. I'm like I swear It was like that was an anomaly that that was very weird classic stage dad and the and the guy filming is like okay Like she's not going to be in the movie clearly the other girls go just get in their layup like perfectly how you should Then he goes okay. We're gonna have a little scrimmage girls.
Uh, it's like two on two basketball Okay, we all know how to play and then so Alex is like okay I'm gonna play good in this game But Alex is like overplaying defense and she's a crazy defender and a girl trips her and she falls right on her back And she kind of is really slow getting up and the girl just scores a layup on her then she tries playing again And she's really aggressive and kind of trips just it looks bad and I'm feeling humiliated for her that I brought her out It's a huge thing. She was feeling bad about it already and these other girls are nervous at all they're super confident So they all walk out and then Alex isn't even like acknowledging me She's just like so embarrassed. She's like puts her head down walks out But there's a second component to this also where you have to do a little bit of improv And so jules is like okay girls. We're gonna head down to this area.
There's gonna be four little rooms I'm gonna give you a little speech on what you're to do all that sort of stuff So jules walks on stairs go to this corridor where there's four rooms she goes all right ladies This is a high school movie. It's about high school bullying, but we don't want it to be A Disney film. This is a real thing how high school girls talks We're gonna get you to do some improv and feel free to say like her slut, you know how girls talk and then a 16-year-old girl goes I'm not allowed to swear And jules like that's fine. Just talk how you would talk and then Alex because Alex is a teacher right So she's these girls are really nervous for the improv part and Alex isn't nervous for that for whatever It's actually no girls.
It's gonna be really good. We're gonna kill it Just be yourselves. We're all just gonna be really natural And they're all like yeah Yeah, yeah, and they're like loving Alex all of a sudden And then this other casting guy walks out who works with jules And he actually is the one making the decisions kind of and he's kind of like a real brazen dude And he goes over to jules and he's like oh I have a new best worst line of some of the auditions Sing this in front of all the girls. He's like uh, I like her But I don't like her more than my teeth.
It was what was she thinking there? He goes I'm actually gonna call her out on that girl walks by this little girl And he's like, uh, what were you thinking with that line? Uh, you like her more than you like your teeth What was that line? And the girl doesn't say anything she just walks by he's like he's kind of laughing Like he's being that weird level of playful and mean in a way that maybe some people don't understand Anyway, uh, Alex is going into another room that this guy's not occupying I guess he has a helper too And then uh, Alex goes to me here catch and throws me a water bottle from super far away And it just lands perfectly like inside my arms without me even catching it just like wedged up by my armpit Yeah, and everyone's like whoa And like really impressed by Alex at this point and then she walks up to me and she goes Why did we get that on videotape?
And then the guy he's like whoa, uh, that girl seems a little too familiar with you It's like how do you know her? And i'm like, uh, I don't know what to say because I don't want to tell the guy This is the casting that she's my wife And by the way, I shaved my mustache recently Yeah, and one of the main reasons I did it is I felt like I was starting to look a little bit like a creep or like a petal So I shave it to just be kind of a normal guy So this is a little bit of my nightmare scenario. Do I say i'm her stepdad? So I go, um She's my girlfriend He goes what sorry and everyone's kind of looking at me.
I go she's my girlfriend And then he looks at me and glances at my wedding ring, which i'm wearing And it's that weird moment where there's like a pause like kind of like out of a movie or whatever when you make an awkward comment to a boss Yeah, he goes Yeah, you're 16 year old girlfriend. He gives me a little like playful shot in the the ribs Yeah So she goes in and I just end up shooting the shit with this guy It turns out he knows a lot of people where we work Alex comes out of her audition and apparently she killed it So now she's all happy and she wants to give me a kiss She runs up, but i'm still with this guy So I don't know what to do if I reject the kiss It's gonna look weirder like like give her a little kiss and the guy's like, uh, okay And then i'm like, let's just go out. So let's just go i'm feeling super awkward And then she goes why why i go now let's just go talk about it in the car and then she goes to hold my hands We walk and I slap her hand away and i don't like the dollar time like no And so she's kind of like chasing me as a wash. She's like and Alex is oblivious like why don't you hold my hand?
Why don't you hold my hand like we'll talk about it in the car. We'll talk about it in the car So anyway, that's how it ended and you're gonna get it called back. Yeah from the police That's it that's all that's our episode. Thanks so much for listening.
Thank you grace Mitchell Thank you gracemichal. Thank you griffit. Tiber if you're digging the pod leave a comment and ratings in iTunes That makes a huge difference also when you tweet about it when you reach out Uh, you know, we feel great and it helps us by the word about the chef Uh our work is provided by jenna greger. You find us at jennasdoodles.com huge.
Thank you to tara paket for who does all the illustrations And our whole team that gets this thing at the door every week Justin stockman. Thank you brothers as always You can find us online on twitter and instagram at mike on much I'm Mike on my podcast is produced by an ex-derman. I am yours Mike bermans. See you next week if we don't die on You