Welcome to the Muck on Much podcast. I am your host Mike Verman and I'm here with my friend and trusted producer Max Kerman. Max, it's a Sunday, two days after St. Patrick's Day.
We were supposed to do this yesterday. I'm moving a little slow. For our listeners, Max, you and I, if you follow us on social media or Instagram. We recommend, by the way, Mike on much, Twitter, Instagram.
Follow us. There's gold there. We hung out Friday evening, which was St. Patrick's Day.
It was a good time. We were supposed to record this Saturday. I had a bit of emergency. Dan and I have two cats, but our most beloved cat.
Well, are you your favorites? Well, what am I going to lie? Hey, cool. Duchess like the cat we've had the longest.
Back when I was in a band, I was touring a lot, and she was staying at home in the apartment alone. So I was like, we should get a cat. So you have a little friend for when I'm gone. You're not replaceable.
Big time. This cat's way more cuddly too. But so I was like, it started out as kind of like, oh, this will be nice for her. This cat ended up being the sweetest, most cuddly, best disposition you could ever imagine.
And I'm sure people don't care to hear about my cat. But he's that awesome. So I fell madly in love with him. We're going back like five, six years now.
And then many times someone has either a dog, they want a second dog. Or has a kid. Give me another kid. Well, here's the funny thing.
During the time that Danica and I were apart, people was like, I know that we haven't been together. There's a little hiatus here and there. Happens to all of us. So during one of those times, she got another cat.
So this cat Rafa. So Rafa doesn't really feel like yours. He's kind of my adopted son. He's your adopted son.
That being said, I now love him almost as much as Dutch. But you just can't love anyone. And he's a Dutch guy. Sick.
He got sick. So you and I were supposed to get together here at 299 yesterday, very hungover from St. Patrick's day. It was going to be funny.
And then I got this call from Danica who's in Hamilton. She's like, Dutch is puking everywhere. And Max, there's some things I don't f*** around with. And if Dutch is sick.
She's like, Daddy's coming home. We're going to sell this thing. I jumped in Uber and I was right to the bus. And I got home.
And if our listeners have any concern at all, Dutch seems to be fine. I'll keep up. But we're here now. Max, so I went home.
I had a nice night. Last night I did some grocery shopping. I said, Candy, watch Jurassic Park. You, on the other hand, decided to stay in Toronto.
And I feel like double down on your weekend of good times and party. Well, OK. I should set this up a little bit more. Just because this weekend is kind of a special weekend.
Because it's not only St. Patrick's Day, but it's NCAA. Marchman is the first weekend where there is eight games a day or 16 games on Thursday and Friday. So if you're a basketball fan, it's an awesome excuse to not do anything but park yourself in front of a TV, drinks beer, and watch games.
Now, I always love this tournament since I was a kid. But in the last four or five years, it always falls on the same week as South by Southwest. And the band has to go to South by Southwest in Austin, Texas. It's a pretty much a show.
So I don't end up getting to experience Marchman. And I know for people at home, I'm like, oh, poor you. You get to go to Austin, Texas. And you don't want to barbecue and play music.
But I was very excited that I was going to be home this time. So we've been doing this thing lately. And this is actually a good sort of little life hack that has been brought to us by our friend Dan, where he just, if we're going to go to Toronto, we are going to get a hotel, no matter what. Despite the fact my parents live in Toronto, and I could just crash at their place.
And literally, a lot of times, I'm the hotel's around the corner from where my parents live anyway. But there's something really fun and exciting about renting a room for your friends, going for a swim in the afternoon, like having a home base. And on Hotwire, you get like a pretty good three four star hotel for like, I don't know, 120 bucks. So everyone ends up paying.
It's four guys. It's like you have your own little sleepover. It's like you're on a school trip and you're sharing rooms and stuff. Watch a basketball.
You got food. Yeah, it's so fun. And also, we justified the cost. We were like, well, we would be spending beer money at a bar paying seven bucks a pint.
Let's just get some hotel beers. And we made the money back already. So that's what we did on Friday night. And Friday was an awesome day.
Like we went to Nick in our band. He has some, how'd you say? Like he's like a part owner in a bar called Homestand. That's an equity and homestand.
So I recommend to our listeners at Toronto. It's at Ausington and Blue, go check it out. It's a great little sports bar. Then we went down to the Doc Ellis.
And we kept on watching Hoops, kept on drinking. And then where do we go after that? Do we go right to Citizen? Yeah, we went clubbing.
We went clubbing. Which is a funny development for this group. Yeah, well, it kind of makes perfect sense too. Now, I want to say something.
Full price to the nut. The nut has been coming through in big ways when it comes to sorting us out when we're in Toronto. Because basically, we come to Toronto. We don't know one thing from the next.
We're just a couple of small town Hamiltonian guys. We're a pub drinker. We're a pub drinker. But if we want to go dancing, we don't know where to go.
And also, we definitely don't want to stand in line. We're not doing it. So we just say, virtual hook us up. The nut gets into work mode, starts texting all this context and talk.
The nut is a mover and shaker in the city. Legit. Legit. So we end up going to this bar called Citizen.
And it was the best we had, like, bottle service. It's like our own boot. They walked us through the crowd as if we were. I mean, you aren't somewhat important.
But it's just so funny to me. Oh, it was so fun. We jumped the line up. So we get there.
And there's probably like 60 people out front all trying to get in. It was a red carpet. It was all very, very, very nice. There was definitely lines.
Like, we skipped the line because the nut is on his phone, making things happen. Yeah, we get that there's bottles, there's beer. Everyone's having, and also the thing about this nightclub is that if there's playing really abrasive EDM music where I didn't know any of the words of the songs, I probably wouldn't have a good time. But Citizen on that night was playing a lot of pop music and a lot of some old school hip hop.
So it was like perfect. It was like right in our wheelhouse. And we kind of took over the dance floor. At least in my mind, we were the stars of the night.
Julian was taking the shirt most of the time. The bouncers, who were pretty cool about it. They were like, come on, you got to put it back on it. But some of the bouncers get really indignant when Julian takes his shirt off.
And they act like he's committed a felony or something. Do you know where you are? Yeah, and he's just like the sternest looks. But they were kind of giggling.
I could tell they were really enjoying it. Well, our gang kind of has like, I don't think we look like club people. We're in hoodies and funny. Just our normal because we came from work.
It was like a Friday afternoon where a lot of people get ready to go to a place like Citizen. And there's a lot of fronting if you're like a dude at that club. Because, and I get it, especially if you're a young guy, you're trying to pick up chicks or whatever. You have a persona, right?
Yeah, yeah. But our persona is goofy morons, basically. And so we're just smiling. Literally only there to drink and dance with each other.
So it's like entertaining each other. Whereas, like you said, some people are going into that with a facade or like they're trying to present their best self to try and meet a girl. Or girls are trying to get all dressed up. And it's their big night out.
Yeah, I don't know. So Julian's doing his mind routine. He's pretending to smoke in the club. Anyway, it was awesome.
And we all left. And we were like super happy. We got pizza. We left you.
You're like, oh, you think the V-man's getting pizza? No way. I'm going McDonald's. See you later.
You're just like walked out into the distance. Where the house is your McDonald's? What'd you get? Because you have a history with McDonald's, too.
Oh my god. I think I've once known a burger like across the street at the H&M because my brother and I got in a fight. No, but this is like the Queen and Spadina McDonald's. That's my last stop before going home after night out drinking.
So I go there was a love in your eyes as you departed. I was so excited because I'd met you guys right after work. You'd already been kind of having a bit of a day. This is St.
Patrick's Day evening. And so then when I arrived, I started drinking. But I didn't really eat much dinner. So then at that point, I was like, you know what?
I'm going to push this until after the bar. Like I'm saving up all of my food calories for that McDonald's like that drunk eating on the way home. So I went in and I couldn't decide. But I was like, I was staring at the menu in a had-a-while because it was slammed in there.
And I ended up going with a McChicken combo with a filet fish on the side. Ooh, that's the Mike B special. Went back to the apartment, threw on Star Trek Insurrection on the Blu-ray and just sloppily ate food. Like David Hasselhoff in that infamous video.
And that's the most comforting experience you could probably have. It was amazing. Trek and McDonald's. So the last part of this night was that we got the pizza and we are Ubering back to the hotel.
And then I go, you know what? I'm still hungry. Let's go to that convenience. There was a 24 hour convenience store across the street.
And I'm like, ah, we don't need anything more to eat. I'm like, guys, I'm going. F*** you guys. I'm going.
So then we go. And then Dan, for whatever reason, pulled out his card. And Dan is a very generous guy and is happy to spot people. I'll pick up the coffee door.
He doesn't ask for money back a lot of times. And so Dan's like, I got whatever. Just, I'll pay for it. And Dan's also a man of efficiency.
So the idea of everybody paying. We're probably just like, I know him. He's just slowed down the process. So then Julian gets in his head that just starts adding stuff and putting more and more chocolate bars.
Is that him anymore? No, no, no. Is that him anymore? And then everyone's kind of laughing.
The guy from behind the counter thinks it's funny. Anyway, but like, don't say, no, I want it. I want all these things. And so Dan literally bought $77 worth of chocolate.
Holy shit. And smart food and candy. And it was so funny. Like Dan was like, OK, I guess I'm paying for this.
That's holy shit. I saw that on Snapchat. So when I left you guys, you were at Mama's Pizza or something. Getting the slices.
I was like, I do not want a slice. I want McDonald's. And then I saw a snap later that you guys did a candy run. I was like, you're doing a candy run and going back to the hotel.
That was like, I probably went hung around. I was like, I just wanted the pizza. Oh, God. We have a whole other day.
Yeah, we do. Well, so Saturday was. By the way, I wish that our listeners could see Max right now. Because he looks like a man that's been enjoying basketball and beer for 48 hours straight.
Oh my goodness. Oh, yeah. So Saturday, we had this date on the books for a long time. Because Coachella is coming up.
And Dan and my roommate, Al, are coming to Coachella. And the nut is coming to Coachella. And now, since it has ballooned to more people, which we'll get to later. But we may have some big ponnies.
We may have some big ponnies. What a tease. But we had gotten in our heads that we need to have a meeting about Coachella. Oh, like the four.
Like this was like a month ago. The four OG Coachella boys. We need a night in Toronto where we need a meeting to discuss this. And I thought we were going to go to the Leafs game and discuss it there.
It turns out, and I haven't really paying attention to any other details. It turns out the nut was just going to take us to Share Club. And we were going to watch the Leafs game there and discuss Coachella. Anyway, none of that happened.
We ended up not discussing anything Coachella. Like this morning, I was like, did we mentioned the word Coachella once? No. We didn't go to the Leafs game.
We didn't go to Share Club. We were looking for St. Patrick's parties. And then not recommended we go to this place or Rebel, which is the Sand Academy, like Paulson Fair, kind of in the middle of nowhere.
And it was a gong show there. And we probably weren't quite drunk enough to really experience it in as full as. But it was just like, because people had been drinking there since noon. Wow.
And we got there at about 6.30. And as we got out of the Uber, and we had no drinks in us at this point, there was literally zombies walking out of this place. People were like, could not walk straight. And just like kind of streaming out of the venue.
But what I'll say is that I really took for granted all the work that nut does. Because they're not got us in to Rebel. We didn't have to pay or anything. But normally he's there negotiating with the bouncer.
Or like, I need to talk to Freddie, who's the guy who's looking us up. But I had to do that work. And it's tough work. You had to do it.
Because the nut wasn't there. It was just Al, Dan, and I. So you had to go to Sweet Talking. I was like, yeah.
Did you drop the band? Well, they knew the band. But I had to, at that point in the day, the bouncers didn't want to talk to anybody. So I was like, yeah, we know somebody.
It doesn't matter. Keep moving. So I usually feel humiliated. Anyway, shout out to the nut for doing all of our dirty work.
And hook us up. Because it ain't an easy job. I ended up walking home back to the hotel by myself. I kind of did a Houdini out of the bar.
We were early mercy. I got out of there. And the new Drake album had just come out. Big news.
This just happened less than 24 hours ago. Last night? Yeah. OK.
And I was really enjoying it. It actually sounds like it's going to be a very good album. And I dropped my phone. And my phone is now destroyed.
I'm showing it to Mike right now. It is destroyed. It's a classic 2 AM fumble your phone. And it's all totally fucked up.
So that was how we can it? Broken phone. But wonderful memories. Yeah.
I want to try the damn thing. So that was your same party as we can. Shout out to the nut, to my roommate Al, Dan, Felix, Julian, the whole champagne boys group for really making it a special experience for us. Like you won an Oscar.
You're a full speech. I just are playing you off. All right, Maxie boy, this is a big episode. It is.
Our guest today is Nelly Furtado. Yeah. So for fans of Nelly Furtado who don't know what the podcast is. They have to listen to our like Monday and weekend in Toronto.
Yeah, big episode. Big episode. You came for this interview. Which is great.
We did this interview last week. She has a new album out. Yeah. And Nelly Furtado is someone who's been with us in our life for like 15, 20 years now.
Absolutely. You know what? It's funny. I posted a photo on my Instagram of you and I was like, I know obviously Nelly is huge and pretty iconic and has a million hits.
But I was actually a little surprised at how quickly my Instagram like blew up. You know what I mean? Because I'm like, oh, yeah, everybody loves Nelly Furtado. You know what I mean?
It's like she crosses over sort of every very, she's not divisive in the way that people are like, we'll have opinions on it. It's like everybody enjoys Nelly Furtado. It's true. And you know, I know she is like an international pop star.
She's sold like 100 million records. But and they were just projecting here. But I think because she's Canadian and she's surrounded herself with just good Canadian friends and maintains that sort of Canadian sensibility and like friendliness and openness. Like she did not strike me for a second as like any kind of like pre-medon.
Like sometimes you will and I think we've talked to people in the situation who've been living in a certain world for a while. And like there is a disconnect between their life and the rest of reality. Yeah. And I don't blame them.
I don't blame them because they've been living in this weird vortex. The reality of this situation. But Nelly Furtado strikes me somebody who like she kind of she she's very charismatic and very energetic and has a lot of ideas. But like just strikes me as like someone who could live living in my neighborhood.
And just like a sweet like smart ambitious person. Yeah. She had a genuine kindness that came through. You know like she just was a pleasure to hang out with and she was open about her career and you know we talked about the massive success of loose and how that basically shot her to a lot of other level with all these sort of major pop hits and then arena touring.
And you know it was interesting when she talked about how quickly that was or if that was something if that was a level she wanted to ascend to. Yeah. She seemed to have an interesting career. I guess I think for a situation like appreciative of all the different experiences she gets to have as a result of her.
So maybe some of her earlier success and just like I don't know just has a world view seems like very good and spot on. Yeah. I feel like her success has afforded her the luxury of creating what she wants to create and sort of be a true artist where it's like you know what I mean. I think she's a very creative person because of her success is allowed to just pursue those avenues whenever she wants or whenever the new strikes.
Couldn't have said anything better. That's funny. That's a struggle to be. It's been 48 hours.
Yeah. She's crazy. I was like, you know what I was doing more in the first few years. I was like, wow, they sound amazing.
I was like, there's amazing. You guys are really nice. Thanks. I was working.
Congratulations. But anyway, so Mike works in the building. Thank you. Yeah, and we have this podcast where we just want to talk to artists.
And I'm obsessed with podcast. Is it as fun as you thought it would be? The podcast? It's like an episode 55.
That's right. We've been talking to have so many amazing people. That's amazing. The thing is, we're both huge fans.
The podcast, he can use it from Hamilton. So he's on the bus listening. Oh! So we like...
It's a hard drive. Is it a hard drive from... No, when you go on. It's easy.
Tomorrow. Just go during a rush hour. Oh, I'm just visiting a family. Okay, nice.
You live in Hamilton. You take the QEW? Yeah, I take the train. Right there.
Go train? I like the train to Montreal. The other two. Yeah, the real.
Yeah, that's a good one. Let's start this thing. Okay. All right.
Well, I kind of want to start because we were watching the short film for the ride. Okay. And then the video for Pydreams. Yeah.
I'm walking Johnson to the movie. Yeah. Like aesthetically, it's very nostalgic just with sort of the VHS vibe. Oh, yeah.
The Pydreams video? Yeah. Yeah. That's cheap.
Yeah. The short film though had a lot of that VHS vibe. It did actually. So I guess the question would be, was that your idea where that concept comes from?
And is that representative of the album overall? Is it like a sort of a nostalgic feel as a ride? That's a good question. Yeah.
The aesthetics. Yeah. They are kind of eclectic and honestly my friend Joaquin who did photos and the art direction on my album shoot, which was done in Dallas with local artists and visual artists doing the set design, Samantha McCurdy did the 3D art that's on the cover of my album. I mean, Jake Elliott did the music video, another visual artist who's featured in the movie.
So Joaquin, I had a Joaquin in early days because you know your artist like you have to start the creative process early. And as soon as I got to Dallas, I was working with John Congleton who was introduced to me by Annie from St. Vincent. And I knew I wanted him.
He produced the record. He produced an entire album. And I really loved his sound. And as soon as I got to Dallas, I really felt this sense of community.
And it was something in the air. It was like a really great artistic vibe. And so I invited Joaquin down right away. So he was there while I was making the record.
And that's why there's a sort of like, it's very organic, everything I'm doing for it. Visually it's very, very just true to what the music is. You know what I mean? Because I feel like the album's very reflective.
And yeah, there is something about the lo-fi quality of some of those older analog devices. I mean, and Joey always walks around with it. Yeah, he was following me around from the summers. There's even stuff at the H1 hip hop or he's filming me on the little camcorder.
And Jake as well, like I had video directors reach out to me. Like he record that on. It's actually not a VHS camera. It's a different kind of, I forget the name, the name of the film right this second, but it's another kind of camera, but it's also old.
It's not an effect though. It's like actually shot on the wall. It's shot on a T-only on one tape type of thing. This is a T23.
So yeah, like a tape they recorded something over. Him and Pierre Crust, he's a really cool Dallas based artist, edited video. So I like people that are just, I really feel like you can put all the bells in one so you can have a studio full of technology. It does not mean you're going to sit there and make anything good.
You know, I feel like real creativity sometimes comes from nothing. And you have nothing and you're inspired. And then you make something. You know, and for me personally, that's the case.
I like to kind of have things be minimal, you know, and then kind of let the inspiration just kind of bubble up naturally. The day before I shot Pike Dreams, I was in Dallas. I was recording music for an installation thing I did with my friend for Art Basil, but I was there recording with Adam Pickerel. We're driving to his house studio.
I see these pink signs, estate sale, small house, not a huge house. Stopped because I thought, oh, she was probably cool. Stop in here. I want to buy stuff.
So we stopped and it was this amazing home. You can tell this lady who was named Edna Sue. She had like monogram like pins like custom made. She had a great life.
She went to this university. You could see the letters from the dean about her grades. And you could tell, you know, she lived a long life and a happy life and she had all these cool objects in her home. And I just, some inside me just told me to ask the woman in charge of the sale if I could make a video there.
I was like, can we come back and record a video tomorrow? I'll pay a hundred bucks. And she was like, yeah, sure, here's my number. And so I told Jake, I'm like, yeah, you know, we're doing a video tomorrow.
I found a location because we don't have a location. Did she recognize you? Like did she know? Yeah, but they were chill.
Yeah, that's the other thing. Like we go so chill. Yeah, yeah, there's a real that Southern sort of, I don't know, kindness. And so Jake and I came back the next day with like our friend assisting and we, they just turned out all the pink signs and we recorded in the house, but it felt so organic because the song, it's amazing how sometimes when you follow your instincts, you get the right product, the right thing because the song is really about illusions, right?
I mean, we're emphasizing EDNOSU's life, right? I'm in a living room. I'm like, this is TV and I'm, you know, I have a healthy hat and here's our chandelier and we're like, we're coming up with our own interpretation of what our life might have been, right? Yeah.
Which is what art is about, right? Like it's like, it's all interpretations and rigour just tastes like it right now. I'm doing, I'm on doing, but I started writing something that has very much to do with the fascination about maybe somebody who idolized, which is like a favorite musician of mine because I started taking this playwriting class last year, which I think affected my songwriting because in a play you have to see every scene as this poignant moment and you have to distill each moment. So even that is, I'm playing with, I love the idea of like the fantasy of who somebody might be versus like the reality.
That's just a constantly inspiring. Yeah, you know, never meet your idols because you let down. Yeah, I mean, totally 100%, like 100. Yeah.
How did you meet St. Vincent and did she convince you? Oh my God. Oh my God.
That's a gris segue. Yeah. So embarrassing. Do you want to hear it?
I'm on top albums, dance records and whatever, all these different things. Hip hop, whatever it is. I'm on tour. My album's Spirit and Instructable, my last English language album.
I'm in Tokyo and I'm at SummerSonic, have you played SummerSonic? Music festival in Tokyo? Go there. It's such a good one and magically because it's Japan and it's like super eclectic.
I'm playing the same stage as St. Vincent, who I'm already obsessed with at that point. I love her music. I'm like scheduled and I'm like watching St.
Vincent, like a hock and I watch her set because my gig is not until a couple hours later. As I'm standing backstage kind of about to go in my merry way, she runs off the stage looking like the goddess she is all sweaty in her perfect outfit and she goes, hi. And I'm like, hi. And then she's like, I'll come talk to you in your room and I knock in your dressing room.
And I'm like, okay. I'm in my dressing room. Let's paint a picture. My room is full of clothing.
And she was in jewelry because I'm singing this song about earrings at the time called Bicoups. And so she walks in. The Japanese, the label in Japan, made a cardboard cutout of my head, had another promotional event. It's sitting at eye level in our room because it's funny.
She walks in, she looks at the picture and she goes, oh, you look really pretty there. And what do I say? Because I'm so nervous to meet this goddess. I say, oh yeah, thanks.
Do you want it? And I give her a cardboard cutout of my head. She's so nerdy. She's so ugly.
She's so nice. She's from Texas. She's like, oh, thank you. I saw her a year later and she said, I saw that in my storage room the other day.
So eventually I built up the nerve to ask her to introduce me to her producer, which is like, can I meet your boyfriend? We're albums with them. She was so nice. And when I met John, we hit it off and then we started making all of them together.
That's cool. I was wondering, you know, are there super successful? Sorry, the storm is so long. No, sorry.
Sorry. Artists that are super successful. I was wondering sort of their level of work and work ethic and, you know, some love being on the road, you know, like, there's love, like making records, you know, some distance themselves from the music and sort of find other passions outside of that. Where do you find you fall on that spectrum?
That is such a good question. I had to find the love again for just craft, just making stuff. And that was a journey for me because for a long time, I mean, it started 20 years ago. I signed my first daily 98 business six album.
So between then and now, so much has happened. I mean, I already, I became a mother when I was 24. So like, I already had a family and was out like touring with my family. It was crazy times for a while.
Building a career in the middle of sort of the hottest ascension, well-being mother as well. Yeah, busy times like very busy. So you really don't have much time to kind of reflect. And once I got off that wheel, very quickly, I started to realize, well, then I went into a phase of like, I'm the head of my own business and I had a label and I was signing artists.
It was just fun. But then I started to feel more like a company figurehead and not an artist. And I really missed the person that would just float around her living room and write a song. It's like a business of music became more prevalent in the artistry.
Yeah, it did. Yeah, it did. But then I started meeting organically all these interesting artists that were doing it both. Like really, and I already started working on my record.
But then I did, I did this project called the David Byrne Color Guard Project and it was toured through a week in New York and in Toronto for Luminado. And at that event, I met Deb Heintz, so Blood Orange. We connected right away. We did a song for his album.
We recorded. And all of a sudden, through my conversations with him, I realized, wow, this is like a really great mentor because he was already realizing that a life of touring non-stop was not for him. And that he would rather do more interesting, smaller things and keep his creativity flowing and keep his heart happy. He's a type of guy to walk around with his tape recorder and walk around with his camera and just take pictures around this.
He still has the creative juices flowing. And I just kind of went, well, I could do that too. I can now take the time to do the things that I really crave, such as taking a playwriting class or doing a sound installation for my friend's piece at Art Basel or this year I got to do a songwriting installation at MoMA PS1 through somebody I met through death. His name is Ryan Macomara.
He's a performance artist. He did dance installation for my show at Fashion Week in September in return. He said, come, you can have a room. I mean, this is like a dream thing, right?
Like you can have a room at MoMA PS1 for my event. Thank you. Wow. This is so cool.
So I said, that's great. And he said, you can do anything you want. And I said, I have an idea. So because when I traveled to Kenya, working with We.org, formerly for the children, when I worked there, I always bring my guitar.
I wrote three of these songs in Kenya, actually, on my new album. And I do songwriting workshop. So I'll work with these high school age girls and we sit in a room and we talk about the craft of the song and we all end up writing a song together. But it just exists in that moment.
We might perform it for their parents and then it's over. So for the MoMA thing, I decided to do this thing and I called it co-creation, songwriting and path of instance. Because I wanted to explore the idea of empathy in a song. So I brought in about 80 strangers in the course of three hours in 15 minute walks and we sat and I had a guitar and I tape recorded it and give them the cassette afterwards.
But they sometimes had limited music ability or none at all. But they would talk about their dreams, they would talk about their favorite vacation and from that flowed and emerge a song and we would finish it within the 15 minutes. Or at least, you know, a semblance of a song. And what I was trying to explore was like, where does inspiration come from?
Where does the city of the muse, what's the collective unconscious? Why do we feel connected to a person we walk by on the street? And I wanted to see if the well would run dry. It didn't at all just expand it.
And I wanted to see, or like this, I wanted to, I wanted the compassion to emerge as an entity in a song. So people would cry all of a sudden. Like when you'd sing certain melodies and words about what they were talking about or laugh. And one group of people would argue me.
But you know what I mean? So I was just curious. I was like, what is this connection we clearly share? That's why we all feel each other and we feel songs together and we sing songs.
And I just think it's unexplored. But I think it's key. I still think art can change the world. It's like a collective unity that you're trying to tap into and explore with song, right?
That is unseen, but it's there that you feel it. Oh, thanks. I need to record you saying that. You explained it way better than me.
It's a host. Dang it. Rumble rumble rumble rumble rumble rumble rumble rumble rumble rumble rumble rumble rumble rumble rumble. Can you say that again on my voice?
One of the things that's really interesting is it's like I think in your career trajectory, you know, I think it's like you start off as sort of the people maybe view as a sort of folksy girl and then into this sort of international pop star, which is sort of an interesting jump anyway, right? From like folklore to lose. When that's happening, do you feel a transition? Do you know you're making a leap into something completely different?
No, not really. Really? No, because I was raised to see music as this democratic language, you know? Like I wasn't raised with genre because I was raised playing instruments.
I played horns. I played trombone. You sit in front of a piece of paper and you play black notes, right? I mean, there's no genre when you sit down and play in a composition, you know?
There's really no genre if you think about it. My grandfather, he composed music. He was a marching band conductor. So I think when you play in an ensemble for that one, you really don't see genre.
You don't. You're just like, I'm singing notes and melodies and I love it all. I love armbial. I love hip-hop.
I love rap. I love alternative folk. There's different levels of low success, right? Like the kind of success that comes with an album like Loose is almost different because it is such a...
Kind of careful with wish for a different thing. Yeah. It's like a superstar realm. You're right.
You're absolutely right. And I did plan that though. That's what I'm getting at. You're right.
I planned that completely. I didn't think it would work. I didn't think it would work. I was like, wow, that's like a cesareo.
That's so weird. What happened was I did folklore. I did vocal art and this is what happened. I experienced feeling of playing live shows with my material, right?
I was like, oh, I'm not going to play all these different instruments. Crazy pastiche, right? And then folklore. And I always felt like those songs were so segmented that they never sounded good in larger venues.
And I was like, this is annoying. Like I want material that sounds better in arenas and I want to play arenas. And so I pictured myself doing an album called Loose, which is super weird. I know.
But I pictured it. I was like, I want to do an album called Loose. I want to prove to myself that I can make a more broad sounding album that will translate well in a larger venue. And then I guess I was fiddling around for a while with different people writing before I got together with Timbalyn again, reunited with him, and we made Loose.
And then voila, I got the experience. But then it was hard because it was such a large promo run and a lot of joy. And I ended up quite fatigued. Yes.
Also stylistically, I mean, the material needed a level of performance that I had to learn how to do, right? I had to become comfortable doing large choreograph performances on television. I was taking acting classes at the time and it helped me because I had to project the persona of the songs, which is very difficult because they're quite larger than life. Physically, it's totally different.
You have to dance. And then I was like, oh, really? Choreography? Yeah, it was very draining.
The whole new skill set, really. Because when you're learning how to talk to somebody in the top bowl of an arena, that's a whole different skill set than a coffee house or whatever. You're so right. I was like, even when you point forward and you're pointing at the audience, you don't realize that you can...
You're so much more audience. Yeah, you have to really think about what you're doing and execute things in a certain way. So it was actually quite fun for me. I was actually going to ask, was it enjoyable at the moment where you got myself into?
It was fun. I think I was just trying to keep up with it, to be honest. I was just like, I can keep up with this. Ooh, this is quite the horse.
It's quite the speed. It's like, whoa. So I'm adaptable. And I like a challenge, which helps.
I like a challenge. I like a... Oh, wow. I have to perform in front of a home audience of however million right now.
How do I dig in? But I like to feel terror. It's almost like set yourself up to do something that... It's like, once you commit to it, you have to do it, whether you're running or not.
That's what it is. That's what it is. Yeah. Even working with John was terrifying.
He had never done a pop album. It was quite a risk for him and for me. Because he's quite a critically-claimed producer who only works with pretty much alternative, rock and punk and things like that. And I knew...
I just had this voice inside that was like, I need to produce an album with John called. Is it a... One more question. I'll do shorter answers too.
Yeah, yes and no. Rapid Fire. I guess we'll finish on this so people can get to know you a bit. But I mean, when you're not being sort of like, a really fertile public person, what does your home life look like?
Who are you in essence when you're not performing or doing this whole thing? I'm sarcastic. And I'm also... I'm like, I don't know.
What's your day to day look like you're walking your daughter to school? Yeah. Yeah. Me neither friends.