Season 4, Episode 5 | The Fourth-of-July Question America Needs to Ask

Are Americans Declaration People or Constitution People?The Declaration of Independence and the Constitution are two of America’s most important founding documents, but this episode asks a deeper civic question: which one actually defines who Americans are?In this Fourth of July episode, Savannah Eccles Johnston is joined by Dr. Leah Murray, Brady Presidential Distinguished Professor of Political Science and Philosophy and Director of the Walker Institute of Politics & Public Policy at Weber State University. Together, they explore whether Americans are more emotionally shaped by the Declaration’s ideals or more practically shaped by the Constitution’s institutions.The conversation examines the Declaration as the “heart” of America and the Constitution as its “head.” The Declaration gives the country its moral purpose: equality, liberty, natural rights, and the pursuit of happiness. The Constitution gives the country a structure for living together despite disagreement, ambition, self-interest, and competing visions of the good.Tune in to learn why the Fourth of July is not just a celebration of independence, but a reminder of the truths America is still trying to live up to. Johnston and Murray discuss civic education, local politics, legitimate disagreement, the meaning of equality, and why Americans may need to recover the founding ideas they have forgotten.In This Episode(00:00) Podcast Introduction(00:39) Introduction to Dr. Leah Murray(01:17) Are Americans Declaration people or Constitution people?(01:32) The Declaration as America’s heart and the Constitution as its head(03:02) Why Americans connect more emotionally with the Declaration(05:25) How the Constitution responded to the failures of early American government(07:30) Rights, civic behavior, and the Bill of Rights(10:24) Do Americans still believe in universal truths?(13:00) Why citizenship has to be taught(13:59) Equality, opportunity, and America’s unfinished work(15:51) What “the pursuit of happiness” really means(18:03) Do Americans actually like representative democracy?(20:00) Whether Americans still believe disagreement is legitimate(22:19) Why constitutional government depends on local relationships(24:32) What happens when the Declaration and Constitution clash(27:18) Why America needs both founding documents(31:19) What every American should do on the Fourth of JulyNotable Quotes(02:23) “To me, the Declaration is the heart, the Constitution is the head, and both of these are right.” — Dr. Leah Murray(09:12) “The Constitution is my favorite... but when you ask me what America is and where we resonate, I think it’s the Declaration.” — Dr. Leah Murray(13:07) “Citizenship has to be taught. It is a habit.” — Savannah Eccles Johnston(17:35) “It’s not just I get to do whatever I want. It’s about being the best version of myself in the community I find myself in.” — Dr. Leah Murray(18:34) “It’s not a concierge planet.” — Dr. Leah Murray(22:21) “A return to local to be able to save our ability to be a constitutional people.” — Savannah Eccles Johnston(27:29) “The Constitution is nothing without the beauty of the Declaration, and the Declaration is just noise without the vehicle.” — Dr. Leah Murray(31:30) “They need to know the Declaration of Independence, and if on the Fourth of July all they’re doing is lighting off fireworks and not reading that document, they are doing themselves a disservice.” — Dr. Leah MurrayResources and LinksThis Constitution  Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/this-constitution/id1771900485Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0IQCq5DUPWlImiAdc4t3pf?si=85085b24b55b4130Website: https://www.uvu.edu/ccs/projects/this_constitution_podcast.htmlYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@centerforconstitutionalstu8915/videosDr. Leah MurrayLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leah-murray-wsuBio: https://www.weber.edu/lmurray/Savannah Eccles Johnstonlinkedin.com/in/savannah-eccles-johnston-515a72198https://www.uvu.edu/ccs/people/savannah_eccles_johnston.html