If it's Wednesday, a second debate, a second chance, a seven Republican presidential candidates take the stage, hoping to take some momentum away from the field's front runner, Donald Trump, who's skipping debate night for a second straight time. This is a Meet the Press Special, live from Washington. Here's Kristin Locut. Welcome to Meet the Press Special.
The second Republican presidential debate, I'm Kristin Welker in Washington. For a second time, the Republican presidential front runner, Donald Trump, was not on the debate stage. And for a second time, one major question hung over the night whether anyone could or would do something, anything, to change the trajectory of this race. With Mr.
Trump dominating the contest in both the national polls and the early states, tonight's debate could very well have been the Republican field's last best chance to dent Trump's momentum. Well, with the debate wrapping up at the Ronald Reagan Library in Cimi Valley, California, it appears Trump's grip on the race isn't going anywhere, anytime soon, even as we did see some standout moments from the stage and an overall strong performance by Senator Tim Scott. Still overall, what we saw tonight was a stage full of candidates trying to aggressively at times rise from the pack, but struggling over each other to do so. Let's listen to this moment, which starts as an exchange between Tim Scott and Vive Ramaswami and devolves into a cacophony of candidates.
We think about the fact that we were all good people, and I appreciate that, because last debate, he said we were all bought and paid for. And I thought about that for a little while and said, you know, I can't imagine how you could say that, knowing that you were just in business with the Chinese Communist Party and the same people that funded under Biden millions of dollars was a partner of yours as well. It's not nonsense. It's not nonsense.
It's not nonsense. It's not nonsense. It's not nonsense. It's not nonsense.
It's not nonsense. I would like to have a policy today- What's going on? How's that going to happen? Just one of many moments that was hard to hear, notably, the first big knock on the front on our Donald Trump, who's up by 43 points nationally on our latest NBC News poll, was not on his record or his mounting legal trouble, or his increasingly controversial remarks on the trail but on not showing up to tonight's debate.
And Donald Trump will be high behind the walls of his golf clubs and won't show up here, to answer questions like all the rest of us are up here to answer. He puts seven trillion on the debt. He should be in this room to answer those questions for the people you talk about or something. You know who else is missing an action?
Donald Trump is missing an action. He should be on this stage tonight. He owes it to you to defend his record, where they added 7.8 trillion to the debt. That's set to stay for the inflation that we have.
Donald Trump should be here to answer for that, but he's not. And I want to look at that camera right now and tell you, Donald, I know you're watching. You can't help yourself. I know you're watching, okay?
And you're not here tonight, not because of polls and not because of your indictments. You're not here tonight because you're afraid of being on this stage and defending your record. You're ducking these things. And let me tell you what's going to happen.
You keep doing that. No one up here is going to call you Donald Trump anymore. We're going to call you Donald Duck. Some of the sharpest attacks we've heard against the former president so far.
Now, toward the end of the debate, Ron DeSantis did hit Trump on his abortion stance. But for the Florida governor, whose campaign is trying to frame this race as a two-man contest, this debate may not have been what he'd hoped for. DeSantis didn't speak for the first 15 minutes of tonight's debate and set up Tim Scott for one of his strongest moments of the night. There is no black history curriculum says.
What slaves develop skills, which in some instances could be applied in spite of slavery, not because of it. But many are still hurt. For the sentence of slaves, this is personal. What is your message to them?
So first of all, that's a hoax that was perpetrated by Kamala Harris. We are not going to be doing that. There is not a redeeming quality in slavery. He and Kamala should have just taken the one sentence out.
Black families survive slavery. We survive poll taxes and literacy tests. We survive discrimination being woven into the laws of our country. What was hard to survive was Johnson's great society where they decided to put money where they decided to take the black father out of the household to get a check in the mail.
And you can now measure that in unemployment and crime and devastation. If you want to restore hope, you've got to restore the family, restore capitalism and put Americans back at work together as one American family. Our nation continues to go in the right direction. It's why I can say I have been discriminated against but America is not a racist country.
Never, ever doubt who we are. We are the greatest country on God's Green Earth. And frankly, the city on the hill needs a brand new leader. And I'm asking for your vote.
Now, unlike the first debate where Vivek Ramaswami was able to get under the skin of some of his fellow candidates, the rest of the stage hit back tonight hard. Take a listen to an answer Ramaswami gave on TikTok and the aggressive response from Nikki Haley. You joined TikTok after dinner with boxer and influencer Jake Paul. Should the commander-in-chief be so easily persuaded by influencer?
So the answer is I have a radical idea for the Republican Party. We need to win elections. And part of how we win elections is reaching the next generation of young Americans. This isn't infuriating because TikTok is one of the most dangerous social media apps that we could have.
And what you've got, every time I hear you, I feel a little bit dumber for what you say. Because I can't believe they hear what you've got in TikTok situation. What they're doing is the 150 million people are on TikTok. That means they can get your contacts, they can get your financial information, they can get your emails, they can text messages, they can get all of them.
This is very important to our body. This is very important to our body. What we say is, you've got a new China bill make medicine in China and not America. You're now wanting kids to go and get on the social media that's dangerous for all of us.
You and you were in business with the Chinese that gave a hundred five million dollars. We can't trust you. We can't trust you. We can't have TikTok.
I think that we will. Overall, it was a dramatic and contentious night, but not for the front runner. Our NBC News team has every single angle of the Republican primary cover. We've got reporters in the debate spin room on the trail, talking to voters and traveling with the former president.
We will speak with the top campaign officials about how their candidates fared on stage. And we've got an all-star panel with me on set to break it all down. So let's get started with NBC's Garrett Hake, who is in the spin room at the Reagan Library. Garrett, we just played some of the highlights, but I want to know what your big takeaways were.
Well, first of my biggest takeaway was that the two candidates who seemed most intent on changing the dynamic that you described at the top of Donald Trump way out in front and the rest of the pack hanging back were the two South Carolinians, Nikki Haley, who turned in a very strong, to pay poorments the first time around, the only candidate to see a significant polling above after that first debate was once again extremely aggressive tonight, mixing it up with all the candidates on the stage. She was well-prepared to go after a debate from Uswami on that question of we can't trust you to an after Rod DeSantis on his energy policy. She even mixed it up with Tim Scott, who was the other candidate who I found surprising, in part because his team has been telegraphing for some time, but he wasn't gonna change his more laid-back style. He was gonna continue to try to float above the fray in these debates.
He's one of the most popular candidates in terms of his personal likability, the way that that pulls on the trail. People think of him as a nice guy, that's not always an effective thing to be on the debate stage, and that's not all we saw from him tonight. We did see a much more aggressive Scott, challenging Rod DeSwami, challenging some of these other candidates to try to create opportunities for himself to better introduce himself. So I was struck by the aggressiveness of the two South Carolinians, and I also thought the way in which the other candidates tried to engage the absent front runner was noteworthy.
You saw Rod DeSantis and Chris Christie go after Donald Trump a little bit on his record, DeSantis there at the very end of the debate talking about abortion, but mostly on the idea that he was disrespecting Republican primary voters by not showing up. Our polling has indicated, NBC News polling and polling by other news outlets, that going after Donald Trump directly on things like his indictments or even some of his policy positions turns off Republican primary voters. They don't want their candidates to sound like Democrats attacking Donald Trump for his indictment. So these candidates trying to find a way to take Trump down a peg have gone kind of around to a different tactic here, and suggesting that he's disrespecting the primary voters by not coming and defending his record or giving them the time of day.
Whether that's any more effective than going at Donald Trump directly remains to be seen, but at least it's a somewhat novel approach when so far nothing else has worked with the front runner so far ahead of the rest of the field, Kristin. Yeah, so much of what we've been covering here is how these candidates have been struggling to figure out how to go after the GOP front runner tonight. We clearly saw them start to sharpen their attacks. I'm curious for your thoughts on Vivek Ramaswamy.
He really sees the spotlight during the first debate. He tried to again tonight, but it seemed like the candidates did a better job of resting it back from him. What was your take? Yeah, look, I think Ramaswamy caught everyone by surprise.
And the first debate that wasn't gonna happen again tonight. That was clear every other candidate on stage had their piece of Ramaswamy opposition research, whether it was something he had said about China or about TikTok or about previous policy positions or the fact that he wasn't even a very active voter until recently. They were prepared for that possibility. Ramaswamy is running a different race from everyone else.
He never criticizes Donald Trump. He basically has come from political obscurity and he doesn't have a traditional record. So in some ways that makes it more challenging. But again, all these other candidates were ready for the opportunity to use Ramaswamy as a foil on stage tonight.
Garrett Hake, as always, thank you for your fantastic reporting. And I have a busy night in the spin room, really appreciate it. Joining me now for a look at how some Republican voters felt about what they saw tonight is NBC's Steve Patterson, who is a debate watch party in South Southern California. Steve, what are folks they're saying to you?
How did they receive this debate? What was their reaction? Southern California, Kristin, yeah, we are in CME Valley. So we're just about two miles from the debate stage itself.
There's a golf course and a few more miles after that that separates us from the stage. So we wanted to find out specifically from California Republicans how they felt like the candidates performed tonight. Joining me, we have Anthony. He's 17 years old, politically motivated.
We also have Sasha and Alex married with five children, ages three to 23. So my first question to you guys is, how do you feel like the candidates tackled the question that was first, which was the economy? And how you feel living in California in this day and age, what the state of how the economy is? I really feel like that's an important issue right now, especially when the economy is going, it's completely declining.
We're also both realtors. And for the future generations at Hona House, it's almost impossible. The affordability of everything is completely sky. Who handled that question the best?
I would say DeSantis handled it the best the way he's going to tackle the economy and change things around. I get a strong sense that he's going to do what he says. He's already done it once in Florida. So I get a good sense from him.
Sasha, how do you feel like the question of education came up? How do you feel like it was handled among the candidates, specifically when it comes to this issue that we've been hearing about parental rights and who deserves to know what as far as curriculum in schools? I feel like they touched on it. Some I feel like they could have touched on it a little bit more.
I'm not sure any of them handled it. So I take it then Trump is your candidate of choice. If you had to choose a running mate from the candidates that were on stage four, Trump, who would you? Mike Pence.
You feel like he was stronger tonight than in previous debates? I feel like he's kind of in the same. I just like how he was vice president previously. And I'm still playing for him now.
Okay, I want to toss to Anthony, who's wearing an elephant tie and a rattle-breaking pin. 17 years old, so this will be your first time voting. How do you feel like the candidates handled the issues that are most important to you? And who do you think won tonight?
Yeah, me personally, the most important issue to me is a lot of the future of the party, because I think the policy decisions, all things like the economy on the border, they're important, but they've been things that we've talked about forever. I'm young. I'm going to be voting for hopefully like 60 more years. I want to see a candidate who's going to build a future for our country that I would be happy with my kids living in and that I would be happy living in.
And for me personally, I think Vivek is the candidate who I associate with the most. He went up there and he projected what I thought was a vision for this country, rather than just different policy positions and platforms that we've been saying forever. Because the Republican Party said the same thing since 2016 and in 2020. That is saying now, Vivek, I think he came in new and he's coming in with these new ideas.
He grew up in the age of the internet and all this stuff. I think he's best poised for a lot of this and a lot of what I care about. But vote for Vivek, thank you all so much for speaking with me, really appreciated. California Republicans exist, they matter, they're opinionated, they influence policy, there's 169 delegates up for stake, the convention is just a few days after tonight's debate.
It is high stakes here in California, Kristin. Steve, very quickly, ask them show of hands. Did this debate change who any of them were going to vote for tonight? Just a quick show of hands.
Kristin Welker, did any of the candidates change your opinion on who you're going to vote for for this election? Show of hands, anybody? No, Trump, no. I'm the vote for, it's not there.
It's not Trump. It's hard to think. It's still the thing. All right, you heard it there.
All right, well we appreciate hearing from the voters, it's all about them. Steve, thank you, fantastic conversation. Great reporting, we really appreciate it. And as we mentioned, while the bulk of the Republican field was on stage in California, former President Trump spent the evening just outside Detroit, speaking to auto workers at a non-union plant amid the ongoing UAW strike.
Trump pledged to protect American jobs while attacking President Biden for promoting electric vehicles. NBC's von Hilliard isn't Detroit for us, where he's been following Trump's latest counter-programming event. So he was fired up there, von. I got to hear some of what he had to say.
It seems like he really set his sights on President Biden squarely toward the general election. Didn't have a whole lot to say about his GOP challengers. What was your take? Right, Kristin, it felt like an entirely different sort of stage.
We're more than 2,300 miles away from the Ronald Reagan library in Donald Trump for more than an hour, spoke to about 300 folks in the crowd, some UAW workers, some who were on strike. And he mentioned none of his Republican rivals by a name. He gave about a 10 second head nod to the fact that the debate was happening tonight, suggesting that they were having a debate to become a secretary of something in his words. He asked the crowd whether anybody should be considered as his VP, to which he said, nah.
So for Donald Trump, he turned his attention to Joe Biden. And the UAW strike that is now on in his 12th day of course, President Biden was here in Michigan and joined UAW leadership on the actual picket line yesterday before Donald Trump's arrival here today. Donald Trump speaking at a non-union manufacturing plant today and was not joined by UAW leadership who has been critical of him in his four years in the administration, which they say is the National Labor Relations Board, as well as his Department of Labor, gave greater benefits to the likes of employers instead of workers, particularly union workers and the rights to organize. But for Donald Trump here today, his focus was on winning a place like Michigan, winning the Midwest kind of general election and telling this crowd here that he'd be fighting to protect their jobs.
His foremost warning to Michigan voters here was that Biden administration's second term pushed for electric vehicle manufacturing expansion would hurt jobs here in Michigan. Of course, when you look at Donald Trump's tenure, there were several plants including here in Michigan that did in fact close in the Biden administration as incentivized a transition to electric vehicle production, which has led many union workers to be concerned because of a lack of engines and transmission in electric vehicles leading to concerns about potentially fewer jobs being available than Biden administration pushes back, saying though that they're investing in electric vehicle battery production here, but this is a debate that we should, if Donald Trump holds this Republican lead, we should expect him to continue to wage against the current president to go Biden-Christian. All right, Von Hilliard with former President Trump's counter programming in Michigan, really appreciate it. Joining me now from the spin room is Governor Ron DeSantis, campaign manager James Uthmeyer.
Thank you so much for joining me, really appreciate it. Thanks for having me. So I have to start with the fact that people took note of the fact that Governor DeSantis seemed to sharpen his attacks against the GOP front runner, saying he was missing in action, and a lot of his supporters, I think, would ask the question, what has taken him so long to get to this point, to take this type of a sharp attack against the former president? Well, sure, well, as we're traveling around Iowa and talking to families, we're hearing over and over again that people are hurting.
Gas is now $56 a gallon here in California. New mortgage rates over 8%. Basic household goods are going up 40 to 60%. People are suffering and it's because of the reckless spending in DC and both Republicans and Democrats are to blame.
The former president, he never vetoed a single thing, leading over 7 trillion increase in the national deficit that most of any president at that time. And the reality is, he is missing in action. This is not the Donald Trump from 2016. The people in this country deserve to hear a vision from every candidate that wants to be president, and he's not here.
He owes it to the people to defend his own record. James, I guess my question is, was it a mistake for Governor DeSantis not to start off on this strong foot when he first jumped into the race? Well, I actually think he did start off. I mean, right out in the race, he's pointed out the differences between he and the former president, spending COVID in the shutdowns, draining the swamp, the former president did not drain the swamp.
Ron DeSantis on the other hand, has fired numerous state officials, including two Soros prosecutors. He's focused on the issues, he doesn't get personal. And the reality is, where Donald Trump has had some good ideas and look, I voted for him, he never actually finished the job. He started the wall, he didn't finish it.
He said, let's drain the swamp. But the administrative state only grew. Ron DeSantis on the other hand, in Florida, has done everything he said he would do. And then some, he got out the red marker.
He did veto after veto after veto, over six billion in legislative appropriations. He kicked back to him. And now Florida's got the number one state economy in the country. You know, we noticed that there was a lot of cross talk in this debate.
The candidates, obviously, very eager to get their positions out. But do you think, given that, that Governor DeSantis or anyone moved the needle tonight? I think it was very clear to people at home, only one candidate on that stage looked like the president. And that is Ron DeSantis.
You had spats going left and right. But question after question, every issue, he has delivered, he has the proven record. And as your president, he will get the job done. The people heard that tonight, they know that.
He distanced himself from the rest of the stage. And you will see this horse race continue to get stronger and stronger as we get into the early states. And Ron DeSantis has one thing that no other candidate, including the former president, has. He has the most resources and the most robust operation in the early states, especially Iowa.
He has county chairs in every single state. And he will spend a lot of time there. When it's cold, 20 degrees on caucus night, Ron DeSantis is going to have the team connected to the voters that get people out to carry out their duty. He's going to do very, very, very well in Iowa.
I can't wait for it. Very quickly, there was a moment where he teed up Senator Scott for what seemed to be a strong moment for him, talking about the language of slavery curriculum in Florida. I'll read the quote. It says, quote, instruction includes how slaves develop skills, which in some instances could be applied for their personal benefit.
The governor dismissed it as a hoax, but it's written right there in black and white. I mean, does the governor need to shift his messaging on this to help people better understand where he stands to address the concerns of, as the moderator said, the descendants of slaves? No, the curriculum talks about benefits that slaves learn in spite of slavery. The curriculum also talks about the atrocities of slavery.
Ron DeSantis is not going to fall victim to some liberal hoax that Kamala Harris has pushed. And shame on Senator Scott and the rest of the DC establishment for siding with Kamala Harris. Now, Ron DeSantis believes in teaching history, true history, a curriculum focused on civics, math, science, real education, not indoctrination. And that's why Florida has been ranked by U.S.
News and World Rankings as the number one K-12 school system in the country, as well as higher education, too. We've banned CRT, we've banned DEI. We're focusing on getting kids jobs. That's what they want.
And I know we got to get your camera free or else we'd have a more robust back and forth over this, but James Oussmeyer, thank you so much for your time. We really appreciate it. And we do have plenty more news to get to tonight, including the race for second place. We'll have the latest polls on where the candidates stood heading into debate night.
New reaction for more of the campaigns and live interviews with battle ground voters, so don't go anywhere. You're watching Meet the Press special coverage of the second Republican presidential debate. I reject this idea that pro-lifers are to blame for midterm defeats. I think there's other reasons for that.
The former president, he's missing an action tonight. He's had a lot to say about that. He should be here explaining his comments to try to say that pro-life protections are somehow a terrible thing. I want him to look into the eyes and tell people who've been fighting this fight for a long time.
Welcome back. I'm joined by my panel, NBC News senior Washington correspondent Halley Jackson, Washington Post, live anchor and co-author of early 202, Lee Ann Caldwell, former Romney campaign policy advisor Lonnie Shen, who's now a research fellow at the Hoover Institution and host of the Hugh Hewitt show on the Salem radio network, Hugh Hewitt. Thanks to all of you for staying up late. Really appreciate it.
I'd rather be doing it for you. Thank you. We all got to watch this together. Halley, let me start with you.
We saw the abortion comments there from Governor to see that he sharpened his attacks tonight in a way that we haven't necessarily seen we're measuring in inches, not in feet here. But what were your takeaways? Well, I think you make an important point. And it's one that the DeSantis team is somewhat walking the line on you, right?
He was clearly a sharper tone against former president Trump here, even as folks close to his campaign tell me. And I'm sure others that this is a marathon. That's how they see it. It is not a sprint.
I think it was notable that DeSantis in those attacks won that you showed on abortion, additionally, on spending time back to policies, where he does take a different position in the former president, right? Trying to show that there is something substantive, as he is also walking this line between not alienating the former president's supporters and trying to bring them under his orbit. But here's the thing that stuck with me the most. It's the end.
It was that question from one of the moderators about the mathematical realities in this race, because sure, as Governor DeSantis said, polls are votes, polls do not happen on election day, but human beings respond to polls, right? Lightly voters respond to polls. Right now, the math is not math ink for Ron DeSantis. That's what this comes down to.
Donald Trump is 40 plus points ahead in this field. And so as you frame it as the race for second place, that's what we just walked. Yeah, Leanne, pick up on that point, because so much of what we saw tonight was this clash candidates talking over each other. We understood why they were trying to get their points out, because they know that they're behind.
But does that help the voter? Does that change the dynamic at all, Ali's point? Well, not only was it a lot of clashing with each other, but it was an interesting debate, because no candidate was really asked the same question, no two candidates. And so it was really hard for viewers to be able to contrast each other, the candidates' positions against the other.
So there was not a lot of memorable policy takeaways from this debate tonight, but they are trying to stand out. And the problem is, is it's not just Ron DeSantis, who has this trouble with the math problem, all of the candidates put together, still can't beat Donald Trump. And that's the essential problem, is they're in a race, as you said, for second place, but what does that mean? What does it mean?
Who won tonight, do you think? Well, Ron DeSantis got a walk-off home run at the end. When he took control of the debate away from the moderators, and he said, I'm not going to play that game. And then he was very presidential.
It's also the first candidate to mention Commander-in-Chief tonight, which I think is a very important thing. Who won? I think Governor DeSantis was wrong. I think Governor Hayley was very strong, she's the best player.
And then Governor Christie got out for Donald Trump, and he never takes, you know, never answer. So those three, I think, walk away. And Ron DeSantis was the number one in Iowa. Nikki Hilly has moved into the number one in New Hampshire, though, Chris Christie will argue with you about whether or not they're down.
They were arguing, one for Iowa, one for New Hampshire made sense to me, those three I think took it away. Lonnie, what's your take? And you do have Chris Christie, who said he wanted to go into this debate and keep the focus on Trump, not on Ron and Swami. I think we did see a slightly different dynamic, but who did you think really stood out?
Well, I thought Tim Scott stood out, you know, because in part, he has kind of had an uneven set of performances during this campaign. The first debate, people sort of thought he disappeared. In this debate, I thought he had a couple of nice moments. And I think people will see him as someone who wanted to come out and make some points.
And I think he did. I thought the exchange that you shared earlier when he was talking about the education issue in Florida and slavery and his personal story. I thought that was very compelling. I think voters will find that very compelling.
So I thought Scott did well. I think Nikki Haley comes out to win as well. Her upward momentum continues. She really had some strong moments against Ron and Swami in particular.
So I like Trump performance as well. So I think Tim Scott and Nikki Haley for me are to come out of this in the best position. Yeah, Tim Scott walked away from the first debate. A lot of people on both sides of the aisle said, he's such a nice guy.
He clearly wanted to change that narrative this time. I want to play one of the first exchanges about the UAW strike gave everyone a chance to go after President Biden, get everyone's reaction on the other side. Joe Biden should not be on the picket line. He should be on the southern border.
You know what, if I was giving advice to those workers, I would say go pick it in front of the White House in Washington, D.C. That's really where the protest needs to be. Joe Biden doesn't belong on the picket line. Biden showed up on that picket line.
But why are those workers actually there? It's because of all of the spending that he has pushed through in the economy that's raised the inflation. We're missing the point in every other network is missing the point. The reason why people are striking in Detroit is because Joe Biden's interference with capital markets and with free markets.
Hugh, by the way, we saw Doug Bergum really try to push his way into that. Yeah, okay. Good bye, Governor. Give everyone a chance to take us away from Biden.
I play it though because here we have former President Trump talking to oil workers tonight, trying to counter program this really underscoring how important Michigan is and that constituency is. Well, I do think that the answers are pretty, well delivered with the exception of future secretaries. Mike Pence, I think because that was really flat line. You have a lot of flat lines tonight.
I love the vice president. I mean, a lot of flat lines tonight. I do think that the best line was delivered by Ambassador Haley when she said the comments about the president. Why are they on the picket line?
It's because their inflation impacts on their lives. And so that was a very nicely done moment. But generally, I don't think the kind of program is going to work because what's stuck with me, Kristen, is that repeatedly you should have been here. You should have been here.
Not Donald Duck, good line, but not Donald Duck. But if it happens three times in a row, I think he's in trouble. Yeah, I don't think he's going to skip the next one. I'm not sure his ego will allow him to skip the next one.
I mean, all of the barbs. I think the crazy stuff gets under his skin at some point. But I will say this, on the issue of the UAW strike, this is an issue where there's actually a real difference between Republicans. There's a real difference between candidates on where they stand on this issue.
Some who are saying they should be more sympathetic for the striking workers, and then you have others who basically said, get rid of them. So this is a real policy difference between Republicans. I'm curious to see if this gets explored more as the campaign goes on. I'm also struck by some of what you're talking about as it relates to former president Trump, because prior to even the first Republican primary debate, one of the things that we heard a lot from folks close to his campaign was this idea that he didn't need to show up.
They'd be punching down, that he is stopping so hard in the polls. And by the way, he is, right? That's true, that he didn't need to go and be a part of that stage. These attacks may start to wound him.
The idea that he's not showing up, is he, what's he scared of? Does he look weak? Does he not look like a fighter here? And he's known for being a fighter.
Might that start to get under his skin to a degree where he does end up showing up for debate number three? So this debate seemed kind of petty. It was small. And then you have Donald Trump doing his own thing, trying to make a statement.
I think that Donald Trump has been reported, and we've talked about many times. He is looking forward to the general election. He's ignoring what's happening here. Everyone else is so far behind in the polls.
He has no incentive to show up or respond to them. To the words of his advisor said, Hey, don't even, we're done. No more. Let's go write to the general election.
Why, you could hear that in his voice when he was talking to the Michigan autoworkers. Former President Trump was squarely focused on the general election, and President Biden, I mean, he wasn't focused on his GOP rise. Because if you look at the way that the numbers are shaping up right now, that's his next big fight. I mean, this is the- Former President always asked them.
Christians spend an hour with him. He always asked off camera. You think I should go to the debate tonight? Yes, you're very good at this.
How in the world can you miss these opportunities? I just, I'm agree with Lonnie. I don't think he can stay away. Yeah, I think he's certainly contemplating it.
That's for sure. Lonnie, was there a moment for you where you really felt the candidates carved out a policy difference in a strong way with the former president, where they did an effective job at doing that and not just hitting him on the, you're not on the debate. Yeah, I thought Nikki Haley did a good job of this in the first debate and in this debate, which is basically saying, you had an administration that was supposed to stand for conservative Republican principles, and they ran off this massive deficit. And they spent a lot of money.
They spent a lot of your money. I thought that was effective. I mean, that a few candidates came back to, is an effective attack against the Trump administration. That is something that Trump does not have a good response for.
And I pressed him on it. He doesn't like being asked about it because he ran up to debt. Well, but it's also, as soon as you asked that question, Lonnie had the same thought as you, that's what came to mind for me because it happened. I mean, that is, there's an undeniable fact in the four years of the Trump Pence administration, right?
That that is the case. And so on a debate that was largely for the first 20 minutes or so focused on the economy, you would think that would be a natural place to draw contracts. All right, well, go ahead. Last word I was just going to say, the comments about China, which we might talk about in a little bit.
I think we're really, really defining, especially for Nikki Haley. She's very strong, very confident. She hits and jabs. She hit the fact that it's only very hard for the fact that in 2018, his business had ties to China.
And really kind of cast herself again, touted her foreign policy credentials as the former UN ambassador. And it's shown tonight. And in the last day too. All right, well, don't go anywhere.
We're going to have you guys come back. Thank you, though, for a great first conversation. I'm going to pause with all of you to bring in Kate and Dawson, former chair of the South Carolina Republican party. He's supporting Nikki Haley.
Thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it. I'm so much more than glad to be with you. So I want to get your take on what happened tonight.
We have been talking about the fact that Nikki Haley did have a strong first debate performance. We started to see her poll numbers go up. In fact, in our latest poll, she actually beats President Biden. I thought she might reference that tonight and try to make the case that she's the strongest general election candidate.
What did you make of her performance tonight? Did she move any further? I thought again Nikki Haley in the first debate had about nine minutes to introduce herself. That's about what she got in the first debate with 12 million viewers watching it in the social media that surrounded it two days later.
Raised a lot of money and a lot of attention. And that's what these first debates really are is the introduction. I think Nikki looks like she got about 14 minutes tonight. That's about the average.
And again, she distinguished herself. First is the only woman on the stage. Second is one with executive experience. And third is she can take a punch and she can throw a punch.
To this, I was the chairman of the poll that ran some of the first Fox debates to have been held in 2008. And I did think that it was an unruly format of where the people started arguing over each other. And that wasn't good for the Republican party tonight. But what Donald Trump has is he needs a full stage.
The stage is going to thin some more between now and the next debate. And as it thins, that 40% number he has and that 60% number of the ones that are out there that are making their move, I think Nikki Haley will continue to make a pretty strong move and a pretty strong case that she can be the president of the United States. As far as some of the others, I think they're wearing their welcome out on that stage. That's what I think.
I want to follow up with you on that because when you look at the polling as it relates to former President Trump, boy, he's out ahead by double digits both nationally and also in many of these early voting states, she's still in the single digits. Is she failing to gain enough traction to stay in this race despite the fact that she's having strong debate performances? I think that just the number against Joe Biden that came out when y'all's poll shows you that Nikki Haley is a competitor and a contender. I don't think it's even in the DNA of talking about her getting out the race.
You've got to go down to Kristin in this about the first six states in Super Tuesday. You've got to come to Iowa. That winner might be a game consequential at times because it's a caucus. New Hampshire's important because it gives you a springboard.
And then you jump into South Carolina. The one that ever since 1980 has named every nominee except for when Newt Gingrich beat Mitt Romney in South Carolina. So we'll have a big vote. She certainly is very popular here.
Senator Scott is from here. I'm not sure that you're going to have, as many as we're used to on the ballot in South Carolina, that's Donald Trump's, that's where he's got trouble coming is if it thins down to two or three people. And I think that's probably what's going to happen, Kristin, in the next two months. And we noted that the former UN ambassador did make some policy differences with former President Trump.
But without him being on the stage, can she make the type of headway that you think she needs to heading into a South Carolina? Well, I think she's got an advantage and more says she's the only woman running for president right now. And that's a big advantage with a large constituency out there in the Republican Party. And South Carolina, more women voting Republican primary, than me.
That's one of the advantages. Second advantage is she's been the governor of a really tough day. The third one is Nikki Haley is a tough candidate. She can take it as well as she can give it.
And at the end of the day, Donald Trump's going to get into debate. And that's going to really set the tone for who can be president, who can't be president. You know, again, he's making the choice not to show up. I call everybody made the case that he ought to be there.
But that's his choice. Me being a lifelong Republican, a party leader, I think it's disingenuous that he's not doing that and giving it a chance and trying to run as if he's the incumbent. You know, the fact is he lost and we barely won the good terms. And I think the people made a good case for him to be in the next debate.
But we'll see. I'm proud of what Nikki did. And I think she'll see a decent size one up in that tomorrow. Yeah, we're going to have to see if he shows up at that third debate.
All right, Kate and Dawson, thank you so much. Really appreciate your time this evening. Let me turn out to the other South Carolina. We're just talking about with me is Matt Gorman, senior communications advisor to the Tim Scott campaign.
Matt, great to see you. Thanks so much for joining me. I really appreciate it. Let's dive right in.
As you know, Senator Sott came off of the debate stage after the first debate and everyone said, boy, he's a nice guy, but he didn't get in many jobs. Clearly tonight he tried to shift his strategy and he had a much more prominent role on that stage. Are you worried though that he waited too late to make that slash? Well, he still is a nice guy, I promise you.
And you know, not at all. I mean, we're in September. I mean, when I was here at the Reagan Library debate, last time, Jeb Bush and Donald Trump were center state. And Scott Walker was still in the race.
So certainly not anywhere close to being too late. But look, he was able to talk not only tonight about his vision for the country, restoring hope, creating opportunity, and protecting the America we love. But you know, look, he's going to point out policy contrast between him and the other candidates. But if they, Governor DeSantis, Governor Haley, that's important.
If you get into this later in the process, voters need to know those things. Well, I guess the question is we did see him far more aggressively with the other candidates on the stage. We didn't see him though, take aim at former President Trump. Does he need to shift that part of his strategy?
Does he need to sharpen his tone? We saw that with Governor DeSantis. Is this a missed opportunity? I mean, Trump, after all, is the front runners.
Well, you know, I was in Mason City, Iowa last week. When he by name called out President Trump, Ron, Nikki, and the Vape on abortion. On issues that are important to him, abortion, whether it's spending, certainly being called, bought, and paid for. He's going to speak out, whether that's against the Vape, or for President Trump.
And again, on something like life, he's not going to be afraid to. Well, and as you know, former President Trump has repeatedly in his interview with me not committed to a federal ban on abortion and also accused the way in which some Republicans are talking about the issue of abortion for some of those losses in the midterms. Is there any sense that Senator Scott needs to shift his strategy? Would shift his strategy given that assessment by the former president?
No, and in fact, actually, as your interview that Senator Scott was referring to and taking on the former president. Look, this is just personal to him. He believes it's very deeply. And look, we're at the Reagan Library.
Reagan, somebody who extended a hand, brought converts to the conservative cause, went to people and places that hadn't been reached out to better Republicans before. If we want to do anything out of abortion, really any major issue facing this country, we need to reach out. I think Tim's bio, his record, but also his unique willingness to do that is what sets apart from the rest of the field. I think that's why he's even at VC News, their article earlier this year, so that he was the candidate Democrats here the most.
We noticed that he had a few exchanges with Vivek Ramaswamy to put it diplomatically. Is there any risk? I mean, obviously Vivek Ramaswamy is a political newcomer on this stage. He seems to take a page out of Trump's playbook in terms of how he handles some of these debate moments.
Is there any risk in mixing it up with him? Because we noticed there's a lot of cross talk in some of those moments, I think, got lost for the viewers. No, I mean, Vivek was clearly flustered, as he essentially even said, look, when you're gonna call out somebody and say they're bought and paid for. That's a personal thing.
That's a personal attack. So I think it was important for Senator Scott to respond and talk about Vivek's ties to the Chinese Communist Party, talk about his ties 100 by his buddy and the Chinese Communist Party. So look, he is willing, again, as I said before, to make those policy contracts without our important, that voters can hear about. And look, it's important to him.
Senator Scott, he's gonna continue to make those. Now that's what I would expect to see. And the Ramaswamy campaign has said that in 2018, his business did have ties to China, but that's not the case now. Mac Gorman, thank you so very much for joining us tonight.
We really appreciate it. And still to come from the debate stage to your living room. We're on the road checking in with a group of conservative voters in battleground Wisconsin for their reaction to the night. That's after the break.
You're watching me the press special coverage of the second Republican presidential debate. And welcome back. We've spent the last hour breaking down the performance of each of the candidates up on the debate stage tonight. But as we've said before, it's not our opinion, but the opinions of the voters that will matter on election day.
And we wanted to know if this debate changed anything for those voters. And you see news correspondent Shaquil Brewster caught up with some of the voters we talked to in Wisconsin after the last debate and some new faces too. So Shaq, what are they telling you? What do they think of the night?
Hello there. Well, look, they were very interested in the debate. We had some Italian food. We had really good conversation.
I want you to introduce you to our group here again in Waukesha, Wisconsin. These are all self-described again, conservative voters. Each of them supported President Trump in 2020. And let's start with the same question we asked this group last time around.
After watching that debate, raise your hand if you're now interested in a candidate other than Donald Trump. Lisa, I'm interested. You're interested, yes. So three, three of the five people we have here.
Let's start with you, Chris. Who are you now interested in and why? I'm really interested in Ron DeSantis. I really like his prior governor experience in Florida.
He's taken on a lot of big companies. He's really stood firm in his issues. I also like the fact that towards the end of the debate when they asked about who they would vote off the stage or vote off the island. And he took charge of that situation and said, I wouldn't vote anyone.
I think he goes, that's not right. That's not correct. And he turned the situation around. And that to me is a basic thing, basic question, but he really showed some leadership even with that.
So I really like him a lot. We're ready, same question to you. I think the thing that differentiates all of them to me is their stance on the war in Ukraine. So there you've got the Ron DeSantis and Vivek Ramaswamy being the only two who are wanting to negotiate peace.
The others all want to continue the war, keep sending our money, sending our weapons. So to me it boils down to those are the two choices. You came in and you mentioned Tim Scott to me. What changed after the debate?
Really, Tim Scott was my third choice and he remained my third choice. What I like about Tim is the moderators and some of the other debaters, they all go after him for being a senator. Most of them are, who've been governors and they can point to all their accomplishments as a governor. He keeps getting peppered with these questions but what did you accomplish?
How do we know that you're gonna accomplish anything? And he answers as well as he can. I know he's part of 50 other senators, 99 other senators and other senators. So he doesn't have a big role on his own but he's been part of committees and he can point to accomplishments of those committees.
Stacy, why are you still with Trump? I still, safety is number one to me and I feel that Trump has shown us leadership and respect in the world as far as I'm concerned. I would say that if I had to pick anybody on the stage tonight, I would say DeSantis makes me feel safe and I can't believe I'm saying this but Chris Christie too. Either of those two are better than the Biden fraud family that is not, I don't feel safe at all with them in the White House.
Mike, you're still with Trump, anyone else to go? I love a fake, still do, yep. Our government is broken and I think Trump is still so popular in winning the polls because I think everyone wants to see what he can do when he comes back. Steve, quick answer here.
What's your, is this about what candidate you like best or which candidate will defeat Biden? Well, obviously if I like a candidate and it can't be Biden, it does do any good for myself or the rest of the country. So it is important to have a candidate that we know can be successful. Has the last four years been able to turn previous anti-Trump people into not supporting him because they look back at his record and his success in what he did policy-wise and now they're willing to overlook some of the personal issues that they've voted against him for.
I think a lot of people did not vote against him because of his policies because of his personality. They're willing to overlook that because situations have changed now. And last question before I toss back to you, raise your hand if you want to see President Trump in the next debate. Kristen, there you have it.
Wow. So fascinating, Shaq, and it's just fascinating to see that this debate may have changed some minds. So thank you for that phenomenal conversation. I just got a statement from Chris Lasavita who is the Trump campaign senior advisor.
I'll read the last part of it, which says RNC should immediately put an end to any further primary debates. So we can train our fire on Joe Biden. I won't read the whole thing. But that indicates he may not be willing to go to the third debate.
You heard one of the voters there talk about Ukraine as an issue. I want to play a quick exchange with the candidates on Ukraine and then just get everyone's reaction on the other side. It's in our interest to end this war. And that's what I will do as president.
We are not going to have a blank check. We will not have US troops. We have got to defend the American people before we even worry about all these other things. Let's debate the fact that our national vital interests is in degrading the Russian military.
By degrading the Russian military, we actually keep our homeland safer. We keep our troops at home, and we all understand Article 5 of NATO. Just because Putin is not an evil dictator does not mean that Ukraine is good. This is a country that has banned a lot of opposition parties.
Oh, when for Russia? That is not true. We're trying to win for time. Excuse me.
I forgot, you liked that. No, you'll have your chance in just a moment. We need a reasonable peace plan to end this. Especially this is a country who's president just last week.
With Hillary not speaking. With Hillary not speaking. With Hillary not speaking. With Hillary not speaking.
With Hillary not speaking. With Hillary not speaking. With Hillary not speaking. With Hillary not speaking.
With Hillary not speaking. With Hillary not speaking. With Hillary not speaking. Framed that voter saying that this issue of Ukraine is actually big issue.
We know they're fighting over this issue on models as part of the spending battle where they're to keep the government. Let me tell you, the shack in Wisconsin with voters Let me tell you this content. With this content in Wisconsin. Is coming at my favorite.
They simplify it. We're seeing. There is not U.Fnew. That is what debates are supposed to be formed.
That is the point of having to illustrate its correctsince all these differences. We played with it a bit. But that also highlighted something else it has been a through line I can use debate in particular worrying this coraby as is Nicky Finilland chords, as looking into context with Donald Trump clearly dominating the polls. You know, does it really matter, you know, this and that and what happens, it matters in some of these key early states, right?
So Nikki Haley is going to want to have some, a boost there, Vivek Ramaswamy, you heard that other gentlemen say that he's very interested in Vivek Ramaswamy and I think that on foreign policy you have somebody who has, you know, no experience in foreign policy and you have somebody who's a former UN ambassador and it is an interesting way to, again, highlight their contrast on some of these issues. It really is one of the biggest divides right now within the Republican Party happening against the backdrop of the Reagan- Yeah, the commander in chief question came up three or four times tonight and I thought when the commander in chief, I think Dana asked the best question, which asked about the 9-11 question that the Ukraine question is the same. The TikTok question that Vivek dodged did not do him well in the commander in chief category. I do think I come back to the three people I mentioned, who can you imagine in the White House on a crisis day?
It's Ron DeSantis, Nikki Haley and Chris Christie and I think as it settles out over the course of the day, we're going to see more people think about commander in chief questions and one of them being Ukraine. Mm-hmm, Lonnie. Well, you've got a couple of candidates in particular who are running against where I think the majority of Republican voters are right now. The majority of Republican voters do not believe that we should be continuing to send money and help to Ukraine and that position is the one that Ramaswamy has taken, it's certainly the former president's position.
And to a certain degree, it's a stance position. So I think it'll be interesting to see if they're going to maintain that position or as it settles out, to your point, do they start to then pivot toward a position that'd be more traditional Republican position articulated by Nikki Haley, for example, which is, no, we have to continue supporting Ukraine because it matters what happens there to our national security here. Yeah, not only is it the former president's position, but he said to Republicans on Capitol Hill, shut down the government, if you don't get what you want. And one of the things that they're demanding is that this new spending bill does not include new aid for Ukraine.
You're seeing this divide in the Republican party on the debate stage, you're seeing this divide on Capitol Hill between Kevin McCarthy and Mitch McConnell and the different factions of the Republican party. And this is going to be a central issue. I think in this campaign, moving forward, and it's a tension between the America first and the Reagan component of the Republican party. And we don't, I think we do know which one is going to win out of the America first seems to be growing in momentum, but there's some old guard Republicans who are trying to hold on to this, this, you know, traditional Republican interference type of philosophy.
I want to go around the horn very quickly because we have 40 seconds left. Did anything change tonight, Leon? Nothing changed. Democratic Biden campaign a text to me and said, I don't think we need to watch the third debate.
Halle. I don't have a crystal ball. We don't know yet. I think time will tell.
But I think based on the numbers we've seen so far, what could have moved the needle? I don't know. Yeah. I think it did because people will leave the stage.
And when we get down to fewer people, there will be more questions with more time to answer coherently and not so chaotic. That could be the one thing that really changes the equation of people. And on the RNC criteria. Lonnie.
I mean, look, I think Mickey Haley continues to cement her position as the principal alternative and the person who is the best contrast against the president. All right. Fantastic. Thank you so much.
Halle Jackson Lee and Caldwell Lonnie Chen. Thank you. Thank you for being with us this hour. We will have more news and analysis tomorrow.
I'm Craig Malthier. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers.
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