This Sunday, battle lines. Kamala Harris is a one woman economic wrecking ball. As president, I will be grounded in my fundamental values of fairness, dignity and opportunity. With just five weeks to Election Day, Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Trump make their pitch to voters on the economy and immigration with strikingly different approaches.
He prefers to run on a problem instead of fixing a problem. You have to get him the hell out. You have to get him out. Whose message is resonating in this final sprint?
Steve Kornacki has the results of our latest poll. Plus, FACE off. Are you better off now than you were for years? Senator J.B.
vance and Governor Tim Walls get ready to meet for the vice presidential debate this week. This is not about power, just about public service. Will the VP nominees have the last word before Election Day? My guest this morning, Republican Senator Mar Rubio of Florida and Democratic Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona.
And fight for Justice. Our Meet the moment conversation about a journalist and a wrongfully convicted man and the 20 year journey that changed both of their lives. I'm not an anomaly. There are hundreds of thousands of wrongfully convicted people on this earth and they are suffering.
Joining me for insight and analysis are NBC News senior White House correspondent Kelly o', Donnell, Telemundo news anchor Julio Vaquero, former Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson, and Danielle Pletka of the American Enterprise Institute. Welcome to Sunday. It's Meet the Press on NBC News in Washington, the longest running show in television history. This is Meet the Press with Kristin Walker.
Good Sunday morning. There are only five weeks until Election day. And on Tuesday night, one of the biggest moments of the debate between the vice presidential nominees. And with no second debate scheduled between former President Trump and Vice President Harris, the stakes could not be higher.
The problem with Kamala Harris is that she's got no substance. The problem with Kamala Harris is that she's got no plan. And the problem with Kamala Harris is that she has been the vice president for three and a half years and has failed this country. Let's send her back to San Francisco where she belongs.
He admitted to creating stories about people that live in his state, immigrant families to spread fear and drum up hatred. They're probably not telling the truth about a lot of things if they're not telling the truth about that. The vice presidential face off comes against a fraught backdrop both nationally and on the world stage. At the forefront, the assassination of longtime Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah in Israeli airstrikes in Beirut on Friday.
NBC News has learned that officials in the biden administration felt blindsided by the strikes. According to current and former US Officials at home, Hurricane Helene is leaving scenes of devastation across the Southeast from Florida to North Carolina, Georgia and beyond. Millions are without power. Dozens have been killed, and the death toll is still rising.
On the campaign trail, both nominees blanketed key battleground states. Vice President Harris making her first trip to the border as the nominee, again attacking former President Trump for killing a bipartisan border deal. It should be in effect today, producing results in real time right now for our country. But Donald Trump tanked it.
He picked up the phone and called some friends in Congress and said, stop the bill because you see, he prefers to run on a problem instead of fixing a problem. For his part, former President Trump is escalating his rhetoric against migrants and attacking the vice president. I will stop all migrant flights immediately. They should stop them tonight.
She can do that. Just sign one little page, say stop the migrant flights. But she won't do that. They're infecting our country.
She's taking it. The worst of those people, the killers, the jailbirds, all of the worst of the people. She's taking them in. And then I have to sit there and listen to her last night.
Now, as both candidates focus on immigration, we've got brand new polling this morning. I'm joined by national political correspondent Steve Kornacki to take us through the new NBC News Telemundo CNBC poll of Latino voters. Steve, break down these numbers for us. Yeah, Kristin, some interesting stuff here.
Again, we see every four years the Latino vote becomes a bigger and bigger share of the overall electoral among Latinos. Our poll shows Kamala Harris leading Donald Trump 54 to 40%. Now, for some context, this is a little bit better for Democrats than they were doing among Hispanics when Joe Biden was their candidate. But I think the bigger story here is historically 54 to 40 now is a 14 point advantage for the Democrats.
Take a look back at the last three presidential elections and these were the results in the exit polls among Hispanic voters that 14. Look at that cut there. Almost 20 points less than just four years ago. Four years ago we were saying Donald Trump had made inroads with Hispanic voters.
This suggests that that has continued a pace. So what is driving this shift? Well, we see a few big gaps here, a gender gap. Familiar with this one, Certainly men tied when it comes to this race.
Women A 26 point advantage. Again, among Hispanic voters here, there's a gender gap as we see with polls of overall voters, also a big factor here. Look at this. Voters over 50.
Hispanic voters over 50. Almost a 60 point advantage for Harris. And she's barely leading with Hispanic voters under 50. In fact, among men under 50, Donald Trump actually leads in our poll by nine points.
Nine point advantage there. Men under 50 for Trump. We also see an education divide. Again, we talk about this a lot.
We're talking about the overall pool of voters too. Men without four year degrees. That's now a double digit Trump constituency. In our poll, men with degrees citing with Harris here, bigger margins among women.
But we are seeing a bit of that education gap and we're seeing a religion gap here Among Catholic Hispanics, 20 points for Harris. Protestant Hispanics, 26 points for Donald Trump. Talking a little bit about the issues. What's the most important issue we asked in this poll?
Abortion clocking in there. And Kamala Harris big advantage. We see that being competent and effective. Kamala Harris leading there as well.
But then the biggies, these are the ones that Hispanic voters saying are the most important to them. Economy, small advantage, Trump inflation, 9 point advantage. How about that? I'm on the border.
And on immigration, Donald Trump with a double digit advantage, 13 points in our poll. When asked who would be better on this issue, Hispanic voters are saying it's Donald Trump. And that is part of a broader shift here among basic attitudes among Hispanic voters toward immigration. Look, when Donald Trump first ran in 2016, 69% Hispanics said immigration helps the country more than it hurts.
That's come down to 62. The numbers say it hurts more than helps, all the way up to 35%. There's something bigger and broader going on here and I think you can see it. Finally with this, we ask a basic question to Hispanic voters.
Which party do you more identify with? 37% now say Republicans, 49% say Democrats. But again, look at how this has shifted in just the last dozen years. In 2012, this was a 41 point advantage for the Democrats.
It has come all the way down to 12 points, Kristen, a 29 point drop in terms of the gap there on the party in just 12 years. The historical data really tells the tale there. Steve Kornacki, thank you so much. And joining me now is Republican Senator Marco Rubio of Florida.
Senator Rubio, welcome back to Meet the press. Thank you. But we really appreciate your being here. I want to start off by just saying our thoughts are with you.
Everyone in Florida, everyone impacted by Hurricane Helene, and I want to start right there. Is Florida getting the resources it needs from the federal government. And Senator, what are your biggest areas of concern? Right now.
Well, anyone in these storms, the number one thing you want is that power back up and the roads open. The state's done a great job of getting the roads clear and open. Power obviously is more difficult. It depends on different places, but we were at a million people without power.
I don't know what the numbers are this morning, but they had dramatically dropped last I checked last night. There are some parts of our state I think about, Syracuse, for example, beautiful place. People love going there. It's tough to get there right now, but from all reports, obviously it's unfortunately been pretty much wiped out.
So there are some coastal areas, some of which are now facing their third storm in the last 12 months. As far as the resources look at the primarily, it's a state obligation to state steps forward. If the state needs anything to get to local communities, that's where FEMA comes in. And then we're hoping to get a major declaration here today from the White House that will open up individual assistance to more counties so that individual people who have been displaced and have nowhere to live will qualify at the individual level for assistance in the short term while they get their lives back together.
But obviously our thoughts are also people in Georgia and across the Southeast who have also been impacted by the storm as it made its way through those states as well. Well, and again, our thoughts are with everyone as this cleanup and recovery mission continues. Senator, let me turn to the other big news this weekend, of course, out of the Middle east, the revelation that Israel has killed has confirmed against leader Hassan Nasrallah. NBC News confirmed just this morning that Israel used a US made 2000 pound bomb in the strike that killed him.
You are vice chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee. How do you expect Iran to respond and how concerned are you that this would ultimately lead to a wider conflict between Israel and Iran? Senator? Well, I think if Israel was still alive, the threat of a broader conflict is even higher.
This is a guy who cheerfully said death to America, death to Israel. Now in your country and someone runs an organization that exists for the specific and defined purpose of destroying you, you have no choice but to treat that person as an enemy and to confront him. Likewise, this is a guy that spent years cheering on suicide bombings that killed innocence, the kidnapping of Israelis. There are 60,000 Israelis right now who for almost a year, over almost a year now have had to leave their homes in northern Israel and are living in hotels in Tel Aviv and their kids are going to school online in conference rooms because the group that Nasrallah headed, which is Hezbollah was using anti tank weapons, not guided long range missiles, anti tank weapons to target them and civilian infrastructure.
So people had to leave. What country can have 60,000 people permanently displaced? And that's what this issue with Hezbollah is all about. Israel wants a 6 to 10 mile buffer between itself and Hezbollah so they can't be using these shoulder fired rockets to target cities and civilian communities so people can move back to their homes.
And Hezbollah refuses to pull back. It continues with those attacks. And so Israel has no choice but to defend itself. And so wiping out not just Israel, but the senior leadership of this evil organization, I think is a service to humanity.
Do you think Iran is going to retaliate? Well, I think Iran is constantly looking to hurt Israel and they seem to be willing to fight to the last Hezbollah member or the last Shia militia member. Alternatively, Iran's decision to make their goal is to dominate that region. They seek to drive America out of the region and then destroy Israel.
And so anytime the Iranian regime is on defense, it's good for the world, good for America, and good it'll be up to the Iranians to decide what they're going to do. But I will tell you that I believe that they will find themselves in a very precarious situation if in fact they do escalate this on their, on their part. Let me ask you about former President Trump's policies as it relates to Iran. Just this week he signaled he was open to potentially trying to strike a deal with Iran.
Of course, he vowed to do that during his first administration when he ripped up the Iran nuclear deal, which did have guardrails, to try to prevent Iran from developing a nuclear weapon. Trump said that didn't go far enough. He wanted a better deal, that's why he ripped it up. Take a listen to a little bit of what he had to say, Senator.
At a certain point, they're going to call me, they're going to say, let's make a deal over conditions. No, they want to meet on me anytime they want. We'll be good to them, we'll work with them, we'll help them in any way we can. But they can't have a nuclear weapon.
We must also make a deal that allows Iran to thrive and prosper and take advantage of its enormous untapped potential. Senator, why didn't he get a deal done? Why should Americans have confidence that he would be able to get a deal in a second administration? Well, he may not because that's up to Iran.
If the Iranian regime tomorrow says, look, we're going to Stop trying to become the regional power. We're going to stop nuclear weapons, we're going to stop sponsoring terrorism, we're going to stop trying to kill you, which is what they're trying to do with Donald Trump. We're going to stop all these things. Theoretically.
Yeah, of course, you could work something like that. I think unlikely, because that's the very driving mission and purpose of the regime. I think one of the things he says in that statement, which I think points to something very clearly. The Iranian people are nothing like the regime.
I know a few countries in the world whose leaders and its people are more different. The Iranian people are not seeking to be a regional hegemonic power. They're not seeking to sponsor terrorism. In fact, there's a lot of pressure inside of Iranian people arguing with all the problems they have at home.
Why are they spending all this money on Shia militias and terrorists and Hezbollah and helping Hamas and building terrorist networks in the West Bank? So ideally, that's the world we'd love to live in. And that opportunity presents itself. Who wouldn't take it?
What we can't have is a world in which Iran has unlimited resources to continue to sponsor terrorism, build towards nuclear capability and build these long range rockets and missiles that they now have and have developed just in the last few years that threaten not just Israel and the entire region, but ultimately the United States. Well, and Senator, just following up on that point a little bit, Iran has been supplying Russia with weapons and it's war against Ukraine, including drones, including short range ballistic missiles. And yet Donald Trump will not say that he wants Ukraine to win the war. Are you concerned about the message that that sends to Vladimir Putin and the Supreme Leader?
No, because I think, unfortunately I'm not on Russia's side. But unfortunately the reality of it is that the way the war in Ukraine is going to end is with a negotiated settlement. And I want, and we want, I believe Donald Trump wants for Ukraine to have more leverage in that negotiation. But in order to be in a position to be a broker who can bring about that agreement, I think he's going to preserve what he says.
He approaches these things as not in politics or diplomacy, but as someone with a background in business. It's not gonna be easy to do, but at least it's a defined goal. The Biden administration has not defined what victory means in Ukraine. They have not defined this is what victory looks like.
And if you press them, they will tell you what I have just said to you, which is the way this conflict ultimately ends is with a negotiation. And so we. I don't know why we can't just say that. And we hope that when that time comes, there is more leverage on the Ukrainian side than on the Russian side.
That really is the goal here in my mind. And I think that's what Donald Trump is trying to say. But he's gonna say like a businessman, but Biden won't even tell us what victory is. Well, Senator, let me use a negotiated settlement.
Here's what Senator J.D. vance said. He said effectively that he would like a peaceful settlement. That quote looks something like the current line of demarcation between Russia and Ukraine that becomes like a demilitarized zone.
President Zelensky says that plan is too radical. That's basically appeasement. Means Russia will get to keep the land that it's illegally claimed. Do you agree?
Sounds radical. Well, I think what the deal looks like will be up to the parties when they negotiate it. Obviously, Zelensky is not going to come out there and say, you know, from a negotiating standpoint, he's not going to go out and predetermine what it looks like. So I understand why he wouldn't want to go out there and define what it looks like at the front end.
But I think we as Americans, the reality of it is we are investing billions of dollars into this effort. And it's important that as we invest this money into this effort, that we tell the American taxpayer this is what the money's going towards. It's not endless war. Right.
It's almost very quickly. Just to be clear, would you be comfortable accepting the current lines of demarcation as Senator advance seems to be? I would be comfortable with a deal that ends these hostilities. And that I think is favorable to Ukraine, meaning that they have their own sovereignty, that they don't become a satellite state or a public state that is constantly held hostilities.
Is that a no? Well, I'm not going to preach any agreement. I tell you, the Ukraine don't want to live in a country where the Russians dominate their territorial. For example, Crimea.
What's the future of Crimea? The Russians climate, obviously they stole it back in 2014 and the first invasion. I've asked the Obama people where that happened under their watch. But at the end of the day, what the most important thing here is these hostilities and that Ukraine can go back to rebuilding its economy and people can move back.
Millions of people have to leave that country. It's been devastating to them, but that negotiation is going to be up to them. I just want them to have more levers than Putin. All right.
Well, we know this will be one of the big topics on the debate stage on Tuesday night. Senator Marco Rubio, thank you very much for your time this morning. We really appreciate it. Thank you.
And when we come back, Democratic Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona joins me next. Welcome back. And join me now is Democratic Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona. Senator Kelly, welcome back to MEET THE press.
Thank you for having me on. Kristen, it's great to have you back. I do want to start with the Middle east, the death of Hezbollah's leader, Hassan Nasrallah. You just heard me discussing this with Senator Marco Rubio.
Are you bracing for Iran to retaliate? Well, I think the IDF sent a powerful message to Hezbollah, and I was listening to what Senator Rubio had said. I couldn't agree with him more. Israel needs to get its population back, you know, to the, you know, the northern border.
And this has been a really challenging situation that they've been faced with, and they've got to, you know, do something about it. It's good. Nasrallah is dead. He's a terrorist.
He's, he's killed so many innocent people. And that needs to be addressed. That and the Iranians, you know, they're, you know, they're involved in this already for the Houthis and the other proxies and through Hezbollath. So I think the, the message has been sent, and my hope is that there is not further conflict in the northern part of Israel.
I want to talk to you about big picture a little bit, Senator, the way in which Israel has been conducting this war. You and I discussed this back in May, and here's what you told me. They have to do a better job. I want to see some changes here.
And I've talked to the ambassador, the Israeli ambassador, Michael Herzog, about this specifically, that if we don't see some changes, I think it's appropriate to put conditions on some decade. So you told me there, Senator, Israel has to do a better job. Have they since you first told me that back in May, well, we continue to have this discussion with the Israelis. I talked to Israeli leadership about this and have made it very clear to them that the type of weapons they use and where they use them, it actually, it matters, and it matters a lot.
This is a dense urban environment. I've in my background as a naval aviator flying in combat over Iraq and Kuwait. It's a challenging situation to be able to take out a target where there is a civilian population. But this is a terrorist organization.
They're dealing with. Hamas is responsible for initiating this conflict with what happened about a year ago on October 7th. So we continue to talk to our allies, Israel, about how they're conducting this operation. Hey, you know, civilian loss of life is tragic wherever it happens.
And you know, the Palestinian people that live in Gaza, they're not Hamas. There are Hamas terrorists there that Israel is focused on eliminating because they cannot have this threat so close to their border. It's a continuous discussion. Senator, you said, just to be very clear, I think it's appropriate to put conditions on some of that aid.
If you don't see some changes, it sounds like you are not at that point yet where you want to see aid conditioned. Do I hear you accurately? Yeah, yeah, that's correct. We continue to talk to them.
I've seen some positive responses from them when I have specifically asked them to do things differently. Here's an example. I mean, the use of guided munition with a Mark 80 series bomb, you could hit a target very accurately. If you're using naval gunfire, that doesn't work so well.
I've had those discussions. We see more abuse of guided munitions, JDAMs, and we continue to provide those weapons. That 2,000 pound bomb, bomb that was used, that's a Mark 84 series bomb to take out Nasrallah. That was a guided.
I'm pretty confident that was a guided weapon. All right, let me ask you about another topic. You were Vice President Kamala Harris when she visited the border on Friday. Harris had said she would extend President Biden's executive actions that restrict asylum.
She would ramp up prosecutions against those who cross the border illegally. Do you support those actions, Senator? I was with the vice president a couple days ago at the border. It was great to have her there.
It was a really good trip. She got to meet with elected leaders, talk about these issues specifically and how it affects Arizona, the state of Arizona. Hey, she's a prosecutor, she's a border senator, a border attorney general. She knows how to handle these issues.
The executive actions that the White House took, I mean, they had to take these executive actions because Donald Trump told Senate Republicans that they were not allowed to work out a deal with Democrats, which he had the deal, and then he told them that they walk away from this because Donald Trump doesn't want to solve this problem. He just wants to talk about problems. So, yeah, I mean, she's prepared on day one to deal with this issue. She said she would sign that legislation into, into law.
It's up to us in the Senate myself. Senator Rubio and others to bring that legislation back and Senate to her desk. Let me read to you. Rights groups are saying, as you know, they sued the Biden administration for restricting asylum, saying these policies are, quote, cruel and ineffective.
What is your response to those who argue that Vice President Harris's actions would seriously infringe on the right to asylum and that they are inhumane? Well, let me first start with what's inhumane and that's Donald Trump taking children away from their parents. That's not the situation here. I mean, she is trying to manage and will try to manage a situation at our southern border that often gets chaotic and can get to a crisis level.
And that's not safe for migrants. It's not safe for border patrol agents. It's not safe for the communities in Southern Arizona. So she's committed to working on this issue.
That's why she was meeting with the Cochise county sheriff two days ago and Republican mayors in the area. We had some productive conversations and she's ready to deal with this on day one. Senator, let me ask you about the economy. Of course, Vice president also put focus on that this week said she would raise corporate taxes to pay for her economic plans.
Experts estimate her plans would cost about a trillion dollars. The non partisan Tax foundation estimates that raising the corporate tax rate to 28%, which Harris has proposed, will caus jobs, reduce wages and hurt economic growth. Do you support raising the corporate tax rate to 28%? Well, I think it got lowered too much under Donald Trump's tax plan where he also, by the way, gave a giant tax cut to billionaires like himself.
Is that a yes? Senator? I think it's worth looking at. Donald Trump added trillions of dollars to the deficit.
His Project 2025 plan is going to raise costs for families, $4,000. It's according to economists. This isn't coming for me. According to economists, it's going to trigger a recession.
High inflation costs are going to go up for the American people. I mean, that's Donald Trump's plan. Kamala Harris is focused on bringing down costs for Americans and American families on child care and health care, on prescription drugs. She cares about families.
Donald Trump cares about billionaires. He's made that perf in his last administration. And I expect and his plan, Project 2025, pretty much says he's going to double down on what he did previously. All right.
Senator Mark Kelly, thank you so much for your insights this morning. We really appreciate it. When we come back, just five weeks into election Day and the Race is still neck and neck. The panel is next to break it all down.
Welcome back. The panel is here. NBC News senior White House correspondent Kelly o', Donnell, Julio Vicaro, anchor of Matisse Telemundo, former Secretary of Homeland Security Jay Johnson, and Danielle Butka, senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. Thanks to all of you for being here.
A lot to unpack. Kelly, let me start with you. We've been tracking this week the vice president really trying to take on some of her biggest vulnerabilities. We saw that in the polling that we just unveiled today on the economy, on immigration.
She's at the border for the first time as a candidate. It what do you make of her strategy? What do you expect moving forward? They're making a very intentional strategy to take on some of these vulnerabilities and have a counter message that is aggressive.
So they are now looking at immigration as public safety. Republicans view it that way. They are trying to do that. So you hear the vice president talking about more border agents, more technology, drones and equipment to help.
And also the border bill that she wants to tie to former President Trump and to make him be responsible for that bipartisan bill not going forward. So looking for ways they believe from other elections that have shown them to take a message that might be a vulnerability and to get aggressive about it. And so we see that specifically on immigration and to some degree on the accounting. And Julio, it's a fascinating strategy because, of course, our polling tells the tale in part of why this is a vulnerability for the vice president.
Trump gets higher marks with Latinos on the issue of immigration. Harris is still leading with Latinos broadly, but not by nearly as much as we've seen Democratic candidates in the past. For example, back in 2016, Trump won by 40 points with Latinos. Yeah.
So I think that is the headline. We've seen this Latino support to Democrats coming down. And I mean, Latinos are such a complex, dynamic, diverse groups. It's difficult to understand them.
I sometimes wonder there's such thing as the Latino vote. It's such a diverse group. But some things are true. One of them is they are losing support.
Democrats are losing support. They should be concerned. This is an erosion since Donald Trump came into play. Number two, Latinos are really becoming a more important group because they live in very important states right now, swing states.
And then also the shift on immigration that you were talking about. Vice President Harris not talking about an immigration reform from a Democratic perspective. And I remember being at the Republican convention talking to Latino delegates for holding those signs we all remember massive quotations now asking them why they thought about it. Most of them don't feel President Trump is talking about them when he talks about migrants contaminating the blood in the country.
Yeah. Secretary Johnson, how do you see this issue playing out with the vice president at the border? You know, Julia makes a good point that this conversation for Democrats used to really revolve around the path of citizenship. Certainly on the Obama administration.
That was one of the big focuses. Boy, has it shifted. She's talking about enforcement. She's talking about border security.
It's amazing to me how the equilibrium on this issue has shifted dramatically to the right. Where the dominant discussion around immigration is on, is on border security. I think that the message she sent on Friday was, I'm a former law enforcement officer. I've spent much of my career as a law enforcement officer.
I will enforce the law. I will do what it takes to secure our border. But fundamentally, two things have to be true at once. There are two policy objectives that have to be true at once.
One, secure the border, but also be fair and humane when it comes to people who are here, people who have lived here, brought here as children, who've been here for decades, who are de facto Americans. Let's give them an opportunity to be accountable. Let's take care of the DACA recipients. Two things have to be true at once.
And I think she's doing an effective job of blunting any suggestion among swing voters that she will be soft when it comes to border security. Danny, how do you see this issue playing out, including and particularly on the debate stage Tuesday night, where this is undoubtedly going to be a big topic. Right, Right. Well, this is a topic where the Republicans are leading.
Where the Republicans are leading even with Latinos, which to me, I have to say about this poll, we were talking about this in the green room before. I love this poll because it really suggests to me that this is not, this is not a separate part of our country. This is not some separate group. These are Americans.
They have views just like, you know, there's no difference in this sort of DEI world where we want to separate people out, race and color and origin. I just love that this is a melting pothole. So that first, second of all, look, I think for Kamala Harris and obviously buying Prince, also for Walls, this is going to be a really big challenge because where has she been for the last three and a half years? This is her border crisis.
She is the vice president of the United States. The number of non detained immigrants in the country is twice the number. We're talking about 7.4 million people in this country right now. And we can, you know, we can throw calumnies around about who they are and what they are.
But the statistics that were shared with Congress just last week about the number of criminals, murderers, you know, they're not all criminals, they're not all murderers, and they didn't all come in under Biden and Harris. But twice the number is unacceptable. That's why people are upset. And DHS has said some of those stats actually go back as far as 40 years.
But Kelly, Danny really makes a point about why the stakes are so high on Tuesday for Tim Wallace, who quite frankly hasn't been in that many unscripted events. What are you hearing about how they're prepping? The expectation setting is starting Tuesday night will be a big, big moment. What advisors say is that it is not the kind of divisive or decisive.
Rather it might be divisive that you have with the top of the ticket. But for VP candidates, it is an opportunity to talk about themselves and the top of the ticket. What the Wall side is saying is that Governor Wallace, who did debate as a gubernatorial candidate, has not done as many as J.T. vance, who seems quite comfortable in the pugilistic debate format and that it is not a place, even though he's done some, not place where he is at ease.
So part of what they say is to expect he's been working with people who judge who is playing J.D. vance in prep. And they expect that J.D. vance will come out and be part common sense, part throw the hard punches.
And what they want for Governor Walls to do is to talk about his vision and mostly to talk about Kamala Har, to give the country a chance to get an insight about the different visions, not to fact check him, almost have their own separate messages because it's a rare opportunity when millions will be watching. And we know JD Vance has been prepping vigorously as well. He's got Emmer Comer, I should say, who's been helping him and play Tom Emmer? No one.
Tom Emmer, I'm sorry, playing the role of Walsh. What are you hearing and what are you gonna be watching for? So just as I mentioned, these two candidates are not as well known. So this is an opportunity to present themselves to the country then.
I've been talking to voters across the country. I was in Nevada the other day asking them about the economy and what they thought about the policies that the candidates were talking about. When it came to the economy, most of them didn't really know what each candidate was proposing, and they want to know. So I think these debates are really good opportunities for them to talk about the issues and how they are going to improve people's lives in four years.
Secretary JOHN with the minute or so that we have left, all of this comes against the backdrop, this horrifying backdrop, these two assassination attempts against former President Trump. You obviously, in your former role, oversaw the Secret Service. There is now a report, so you've seen it from both sides. There's now been a report that basically says things were missed.
There were some massive mistakes made. What do you make of this moment and where we are with some perspective? So July 13th was a cataclysmic failure. Rule one is communications.
Everybody has to be on the same frequency when you're protecting someone. Secret Service is in charge, but you have to be on the same frequency with local law enforcement. That was a failure. The incident on the golf course, the agent did his job.
The agent spotted this gunman and fired at him. Larger picture, we have to remember that the Secret Service has about a thousand every single day this past week. They just pulled off unga massive security operation. And from all appearances, what they did was flawless.
All right, thank you all so much. Really appreciate the great conversation ahead of the VP debate. When we come back, what will be the impact of the vice presidential debate? I mean, the president has some answers next.
Welcome back. Tuesday's debate between Tim Walls and JD Vance will be a decisive moment in a campaign notably short on such direct confrontations. And while some of the cycle's rhetoric suggests a more personal clash between the campaign candidates, vice presidential debates weren't always marked by this level of tension. In an interview on Meet the Press three days after her debate, Geraldine Ferraro responded to criticism that she wasn't forceful enough in challenging then Vice President George H.W.
bush. As questions swirl around President Reagan's mental fitness. The debate on Thursday night, people were saying that I was subdued and I should have been feisty for our What I wanted to do was I want to convey to the American public who I am and what I'm about and whether or not I can be able to leave the conclusion to them. And again, on the age thing, that's their conclusion.
Taking a look at his policies, taking a look at his plans, taking a look at his performance to determine whether or not he is confident. That's the conclusion I want to draw. What effect do you think the debate had on George Bush in 1988? I think, I think his total support of the president is going to be a bothersome thing for him.
1988 he embraced wholeheartedly the whole right wing philosophy that has driven this administration over the past four years. And that's part of their platform. I think he's gonna come with that. 1988 when we come back, our Meet the Moment conversation about the fight for justice for the wrongfully convicted journalist.
Dan Flepian, author of the Sing Sing Files, joins me with J.J. velasquez, one of the men who was behind bars for more than 20 years. Welcome back. And now a closer look at our criminal justice system.
Veteran DATELINE producer Dan Slepien first met John Adrian Velasquez, or JJ in 2002 when he was already serving time for a 1998 murder he did not commit from his cell in Sing Sing. JJ Aided Slepien in his own investigation until he was granted clemency and released in 2021 after more than two decades in prison. The singing files, one journalist, six citizen men and a 20 year fight for justice tells the deeply personal story of their relationship, their fight to overturn wrongful convictions and to reform the legal system. I sat down with Sleptian and Velasquez for a meet the moment conversation.
I didn't know if he was innocent. I didn't know if he was guilty. And I said to him what I say to everybody and who says that they're innocent to me? I said to him, look, I don't know if you're guilty or you're innocent.
I am not your friend. I am not your advocate. All I care about is the truth. Truth.
And if I find evidence of your guilt, it's coming out. JJ what was it like from your perspective when you first met Dan and you heard those words initially? You know, it's always painful when you're telling the truth to someone and they're not trying to hear you, right? But it's also expected because of the circumstances that I was under, I'm being accused for taking a police officer or former police officer's life, which is one of the most heinous crimes someone can be charged with.
And so as a young journalist, which Dan was when we first met 22 years ago, you know, I can't expect them to just not know me from anywhere and not have any credible sources and just expect what. What I'm saying is the truth, right? So the reality was in that moment as he was saying that the only thing that I could come up with in my mind was like, how do I get this guy to really believe that. I'm not playing with this.
I'm serious. I'm innocent, and I need help. And so I challenged him to prove me guilty, and that's what caught him. It's not just that you're a singular case.
You started covering the wrongful conviction of, again, someone who you were in jail with, David Leamas, who was also wrongfully convicted, and you were in disbelief that there could be two people in such close proximity. But when I came to my own moral certainty that David Leamas was probably innocent, I visited him at the prison he was at on Thanksgiving Day on the anniversary for the murder for which he was wrongfully convicted. But I walk into the lobby that. That day, and I see a woman holding the hands of two little boys.
And she stops me and says, are you Dan? I hate to tell this part of the story, bro. I can. Because you can see those two little boys.
I wasn't there, and I could see them. JJ's older son was on Maria's right side. Don Jr. And Jacob, the little one, was on her left side.
They came up to her waist, you know, And I didn't know who these people were. And Maria says, my son, jj, he's innocent. Can you help us? And I didn't believe her.
But it was the little boy, Jacob, who looked up at me. These eyes, these huge, beautiful saucer eyes. And I. My daughter.
My wife wasn't even pregnant yet. I was about to be a father. And I've known JJ longer than I know my daughter, who's in college. And I looked at that boy's eyes, and I thought that.
My immediate thought was, I don't care if his father's innocent or guilty. This little kid should not be in a prison on Thanksgiving morning. That was the beginning for me. And what happened from there were letters from JJ and a relationship that ensued that today, 22 years later, I would put myself in front of a train for him.
I would take a bullet for him. I know it's emotional. He's one of the closest people in my life. J.J.
and I want to talk about your relationship. I want to talk about those little boys. Because from that moment on, you were in. You were behind bars for another 20 years.
What was taken from them in that time? How hard was it for you to be away from them? I would say it starts with the fact that what they took from both of us, they took the right to be a father for me, and they took the right to have a father present from them. Our lives were lived in pictures, not in real time.
The only real time we had was on video business, where you can barely do anything. And for the first 10 years of my children's life as a father, I'm scarred because they spent five days in school and one day in prison and only had one day to build their social lives. And that's just not the life for a child. They deserve better.
Through all of that pain, jj, you never gave up. You continued to give every piece of evidence you could to Dan for his investigations. You continued to ask for retrial after retrial. You were never granted freedom.
At that moment, how did you keep going? Hope. Purpose. During the early part of my incarceration, I read this book by Viktor Frankl, and it's called Man's Search For Meaning.
It's a very thin book, but it's so powerful. It was about Victor Frankel himself, who was at the concentration camps, and he was studying the people around him. And what he found was that the people who survived the Holocaust survived because they were tied to a sense of purpose. And so that led me to believe that I had to find a sense of purpose while I was in prison.
It took a while for me to figure it out, but when my mother approached my visit one day, and she was just like, I can see you slipping. I see that you're changing. Don't let this place change you. You need to go where you're taking.
They can lock up your body, but they can't lock up your mind. In 2021, you did learn that Governor Cuomo granted you clemency. This is not a full pardon. So in the eyes of New York, you are still a convicted criminal.
But what was that moment like when the gates opened and you walked outside of Free Man? When that gate opened, my purpose was right in front of me because my family was waiting for me right there. My children, my mother. That was my hope.
That was my purpose. I think that as hard as it is for me to swallow what I'm about to say, I've realized that as much as I've been through, there was a need for me to go through that, to be in position that I am right now to have this conversation with you and to be able to touch the world, because I'm not an anomaly. There are hundreds of thousands of wrongfully convicted people on this earth, and they are suffering just like I suffered, and they're not being heard. And you can watch my full Meet the Moment conversation with Ben Fleppian and JJ [email protected] JJ's case is not over yet.
We can report for the first time. He will be in court tomorrow morning, where a judge is expected to vacate his conviction 27 years after his wrongful arrest. That's all for today. If it's Sunday, it's in the press.
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