Shapes of Love with Michael Gungor | Created In The Image of God 246

For years, many knew Michael Gungor as a worship leader and the creative force behind the band Gungor. Today, he’s just as likely to call himself a “creative mystic,” experimenting with ambient soundscapes, podcasts, and a forthcoming book, The Shape of Things. Underneath the changing forms, one question has stayed constant: What is the real shape of reality—and how do you live in tune with it?In this episode, Michael reflects on a theme he sees running through Jesus’ teaching and the wider mystical tradition: “You’ve seen it this way, but it’s actually upside down.” For him, the shape of things is bent toward love, being, and a deep “yes” at the heart of existence, not the anxiety, division, or fear we often assume is normal. He uses the image of a bonsai artist working with a tree’s natural growth—observing the flow of life and then gently cooperating with it—as a picture of what he’s trying to do with music, words, and art.The conversation also touches the “tortured artist” stereotype. Michael talks about the real tension and pain that can come with creating—birth pangs, dissonance, the gap between what exists and what you sense is possible—while questioning whether suffering has to come from isolation and ego. He explores a both/and path where creating is simultaneously for the joy of others and for his own joy, collapsing the false divide between giving and receiving. Throughout, he and Wade circle around the trees in Genesis, non‑dual spirituality, and how art can carry spiritual insight without being trapped in old religious boxes or in shallow self‑expression.For listeners who have deconstructed, feel caught between faith and doubt, or simply sense there is “more” than the usual religious arguments, this episode offers an honest, imaginative window into one artist’s attempt to cooperate with the shape of love at the center of things. Get full access to SOOPMedia on Substack at soopllc.substack.com/subscribe Get full access to Created in the Image of God at wadefransson.substack.com/subscribe