Shapeshifters

Come, walk down the winding path, don't mind the spooks and monsters, they stay hidden within the trees. There are mysteries in this world that you need to know, and paranormal truths that need to be told. Come, step up into the caravan, while we share tales of old, as well as new accounts about things you thought only existed in your nightmares. Welcome back inside the caravan, we have a very special announcement for everyone.

We have a new outro song for you by the amazing and talented Sean James, who released his first album in 2012, and got with his band in 2013, The Shape Shifters. So in celebration of his music, we are wanting to bring to you a special episode about shapeshifting. Vance Nesbitt is back with us. Thank you for coming back again for the third time in a row.

I know, well, it's nice and comfy on this couch here, and you got new pillows. I really like the fact that you put new pillows on the couch here, this is very comfortable. Yes, we are doing shapeshifting, and I can prove. I have physical proof about shapeshifting, because I'm a shapeshifter there myself, actually.

Oh, really? Absolutely, because I can show you pictures from when I was a little baby, as to what I am now. Wow. And I used to be really small, I only weighed a few pounds, and now, you know.

So I have shapeshifted over, took me a while to get to this point. Fascinating. The shapeshifting itself is absolutely perfect word. Shapeshifting itself is a pretty fascinating subject, because it appears that the lore of the shapeshifters and all the different diversities and culture that reflect on that topic seem to be very prominent, and you learn a lot.

Yeah. It's fascinating, because growing up, I heard a lot about vampires and werewolves, and I never heard, I don't think that I ever really heard about any other types of were animals or shapeshifting until I actually got into this with you. And now, I've learned that there's were lions, and people like the Aztecs had a ceremony that they believe that they could actually shapeshift into jaguars. There's also the belief of shapeshifting into dogs and cats, as well as being an animal that can shift into a human.

Right. And that puts a whole different concept on things that, therefore, animals would have to have a conscious in order to want to become human, so they would have had to have that entire thought process in order to manifest into a human. So, wow, there's a whole new dynamic that I never thought of before. Well, exactly.

Well, and then there's half a plant. Yes, exactly. Yeah. There is actually the belief of being able to shapeshift into a plant or an inanimate object.

You know, that brings back a whole new dynamic to, although that was a Martian plant from a little shop of horrors, but, you know, how creepy would that be? I don't know. Why would you want to shapeshift into a plant unless you were looking to escape something, I would imagine? Right.

I mean, that would happen for many reasons, whether you're trying to challenge somebody, whether you're trying to escape something, or be a trickster. I mean, there's just a million different reasons that you can come up with on why you would want to shapeshift or even what you would want to shapeshift in. I'm thinking that probably that you brought up trickster that would probably seem to me first reaction, that that would probably be the most popular reason why is either seeking a revenge or just to be that trickster would seem probably the most popular reason as to why people would shapeshift. I mean, we do say people, but like you said earlier, animals could shapeshift too.

Well, the crazy thing is, is there's the half, the half ones, which I think is called Therianthropy, something like that. Well, and those ones are your centaurs and your mermaids, so they're the half and half. But for me personally, honestly, if I was to have the ability to shapeshift, my number one reason would definitely be to, I think I would play tricks. Not you, Jennifer.

I know. You're too sweet to do that. Come on. It's just sweet, little innocent told me as you go into your local grocery store as a wolf, and you could have just about anything you want, ma'am, please.

Right. We're calling it animal control. It would be a lot of fun. You have to admit.

If you are aware of it, isn't that kind of a weird question, would you be aware if you had shapeshifted into an animal with the same consciousness and thought process? Or do you be thinking through your head in the English language? Or would you understand everything in a canine or whatever animal you may shapeshift into? Would you be thinking in that type of a conscious and then would you be able to slip back out of it again?

That's interesting. In movies. Okay. Let's think about movies.

When somebody has transformed into a werewolf, do you remember if they recall what they've done? Like they know that they're monsters and they know that they were someone, but I tend to believe that they find out about it later that, oh, my gosh, this person got killed and then there's a realization that, oh, I did it. So maybe, maybe you don't, but you would definitely be aware that you shapeshifted after you shifted back into a human. I mean, because also in the movies, it seems extremely painful.

You know what I mean? Right. And it is a Hollywood adaptation from screenwriters to film, and that is just an adaptation for the drama effect. It makes a little bit more scary.

However, I would think that if you're physically changing your bone structure and your muscle structure, yeah, it would seem like nerve endings would be stretched and tormented, and it would probably be a painful process, much like your sister had brought up on the episode of vampires and werewolves. Would she do it? And she's like, yeah, it depends on what the pain is. Well, you don't get that choice.

You either push the yes button. I would do it or the no button. I wouldn't do it. You don't get to ask those questions.

So my guess would be probably pain would be a reality of it. I would kind of think. See, do you recall in the very first, it was like within the first couple chapters of monsters among us by Linda Godfrey, there was the one about the little girl who their mother was at the coin, not the laundry. No, yeah.

Yeah. Right. Well, she, if I remember correctly, she watched this man transform and he seemed to have been in pain. Just the way that she was describing it, how, I mean, because I thought that he was growling or yelling or, I thought that there was some kind of...

Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, how much of it is really Hollywood? How much of it would be, would actually be that way?

I mean, and this is all what if, you know, we, this would be a very fantastical thing if this could actually happen, but hey, let's just pretend for tonight that this is a reality, you know? Right. But there's the thing, Jen. It might be a reality.

That's true. I mean, nobody can definitely say it may sound extremely far-fetched, but when you think about, let's go back 300 years, maybe 400 years, and people were sitting amongst themselves in whatever situation they were in and they hear this animal speaking to them from the trees. That would have, that would have been something that just doesn't exist, but yet we have African grays and parrots that can mimic and speak just like we do. That's true.

And back then, it wasn't believed that that could be a reality. No, that's too far-fetched. So, who's to say that shapeshifting can't happen? Who's to say that, you know, for those that see wolves in the wild, that maybe one of them has transformed and become part of this, you know, pack of wild canines.

Yeah, well. You know, like all two, the beast of bright road and the dog man, or the upright walking canine, however you want to identify it with all the people that have seen it, could it be a shapeshifter? But about all the stories that came out of, you know, the skin-walker ranch, because there again, the skin-walker is a reference to shapeshifting. So, even in Native American lore, shapeshifting is a very real thing.

And it takes on a very dark and a very demonic meaner about it, but who's to say that something like that isn't real? We go from Hollywood movies as to what we've seen, Lon Chaney, going through his transformation into the wolf man, you know, and it was great for Hollywood revenue and of course it brings that terror to the screen, but who's to say some of that really wasn't based on something that could actually happen, you know? It's a fascinating subject. Once you start diving deep into it and you start reading and doing the research and look at Native American lore, like I said, it's been going on for centuries as far as stories of shapeshifting and, you know, taking on transformation of different animals.

And it seems like a lot of those creatures that are shapeshifted into seem to me to be very deformed and demented and have that evil presence about them, so that's kind of scared within itself too. And it's true that shapeshifting has been generally in a very dark light, but I'm going to take this opportunity now that this kind of popped in my head. If there is any listener out there now or that finds this episode in the future or that might know somebody, if you know anybody or you yourself are a shapeshifter, please email thecaravannaoflore at gmail.com. I would definitely love to hear your story and, you know, because honestly I have to say the opportunity presented itself.

If somebody came to me and said, yes, I can shapeshift and I can teach you how. And we met together and I actually physically saw it with my eyes. I think I would do it. I think that I would just do it.

You, you just want to be a vampire, you want to be a vampire. Come on. I got to let my later monster out. Okay.

So going back on that notation of you asking our wonderful audience, if you are a shapeshifter and you want to email us, please, please keep in mind too that your anonymity is very important to us. We will not share any information with anybody unless we have your express written consent. You are protected by our promise that your story stays with us unless you want it to be shared. And this goes for everybody in every story, whether you have a ghost story, a Sasquatch encounter, if you're a UFO, a deputy, anything, any reason for you to email us.

If you don't want your story shared, if you just want somebody to speak to, then, you know, speak to us. We don't have to air it. We don't have to talk about it. Nope.

That's just, you know, the added bonus. If you're like, hey, I got a story and I want to share it with your listeners, you know, it doesn't have to be that way. Right. But it's only therapeutic too.

Oh, it is. It really is. I know that for my own personal experiences, like we were talking with Sean, it's been amazing to find this group of people and share our stories and realize that, you know, this is the characterable is more normal than we know. Yeah.

That's true. And it's a safe place. So, yeah. So before we get my question for you, if you could turn into any kind of where animal, which I guess there's a lot of different ones, which would you choose and why?

Okay. Thanks for springing that one, I mean, but it would have to be, I might take a little bit of time to discern exactly what specific species, but it would have to be some sort of a bird or a raptor. Whoa. Really?

Yeah. Yeah. It would have to be a raptor. Well, considering the fact that flying gives you the freedom to move in any direction, and that's quoted by Amelia Earhart, and if you think about it, yes, you have the freedom of movement in any direction with the ability to fly.

But then you have other abilities too. You have the keen eyesight. You're able to see great distances, and you're able to flee danger. You're able to promote danger and be part of danger as well and be a great protector.

You might have a dog that is barking at you ferociously, and it's very terrifying to think about how terrifying it would be to have a six foot wingscreen creature coming at you too. That's true with crazy talons. Yeah. Now, there you go.

It's the crazy talons. Yeah. I think I would be shapeshifting into a bird of prey of some sort. I would have to be a little more specific as to what it would be, of course, and a lot of people probably think, oh, he wants to be a majestic bald eagle.

Well, you know, that would be cool because they're beautiful, but it's not about beauty. It's about being efficient as a creature in itself. So maybe owl. Ooh, right.

Yeah. So sit in the tree outside your window and make you think about it once my neck, they lean up duck is going to happen. Right. Oh my gosh.

Well, okay. So that question is if you could shape shift into it. If you wouldn't be bound to being it all the time, but now along the same path, let's talk about reincarnation really quick. If you were to be able to choose, but you had to be an animal, you can no longer be a human.

You had to choose an animal and you would be that animal permanently. No, it's shape shifting. No, nothing. What would you choose?

Oh boy. Wow. Probably a household dog, a golden retriever. Oh, yeah.

Sure. Why not? You get the spoils of life and I mean, you don't have to work. You get treated.

You get fed. You get loved. Yeah, that's what in the life of royalty, why be a wild animal that you have to fend for yourself. Whereas a golden retriever, hey, people are taking care of you and they love you as long as you're loyal to them.

They'll be loyal to you. So yeah, you can reincarnate me into a a lovable little puppy. Nice. Right on.

Sounds good. How about you? I want to know what you want to know. You know, honestly, I've always had a thing for wolves and it's definitely my totem animal.

So if I could shape shift, I would definitely be a wolf. I love the freedom and being in the forest and all of that. But hearing your explanation of the animal, if you were incarnated, it would be hard to be. I mean, it wouldn't be easy being a wolf all the time.

You know, you really have to, you know, chase your food and be out in the cold and all that. You have to fight for your status. You know, I understand humans. We have to fight for our status too, but it's not as brutal as it would be, you know, wanting to have puppies of your own and go through a brittle fight first in order to be the alpha female or the alpha male, whichever it is you choose.

And yeah, your life is revolving around not starving. Yeah. No, so I think to be reincarnated, you know, I might go with a cat. See, there you go.

I'll just let it off the owners and so that way, you know, that way I can be spoiled and I can be loving, but I can still be mischievous. Well, sure, you'll knock everything off of every shelf in the house because that's what you would do. Oh, yeah. Drink out of everybody's drinking glass.

Yeah. Yeah. And you're completely fascinated with a laser pointer. Oh, yeah.

Hey, man. You can jump really good. You got great balance. Yeah.

This is true. This is true. Okay. So there you go.

Yeah. And you can be the cat and I'll be the puppy and boy, talk about a, a podcast. Right. Exactly.

I'll come back and be a podcast my next lifetime. Oh, that's fantastic. And I'm sure that would make for great listening. Wouldn't it?

Right. It would. There's a few things I would say there, but this is a family friendly show. So we'll just keep it back.

Yep. No, you do point to a very interesting question. And of course, for our listeners, feel free to put in the caravan library of Lord Group Page on Facebook, put in what you guys, you know, would want to be reincarnated into because I'd be interested to see what other people, you know, sometimes I'm so shocked by you guys that you'll put in a post of like, wow, I never thought of that. That's fantastic.

And then I get all excited because, you know, our conversation was heard and really thought about it. And, you know, I know some of you would put in something fantastic as far as a reincarnated animal. Oh, yeah. Well, and I want to know the reasons why too, because those are also, you know, even more fascinating.

Right. You know, come back and say it's a nail. Right. Oh my gosh.

Before I forget to, I had some other things written down for sheep shifters and something that I found that was really interesting was the Old Norse berserkers, that it literally, that word broken up means bear shirt. And they would wear these bear skins on their back when they would go in battle. Also, and I forget what they were, but there was another group of people that did that, but that was with wool skins and they Powell when they were in battle. I mean, that would be pretty intense.

Oh, I would think so. But if you take a look at it, it's a wanting form of intimidation before going into battle of, wow, what are we actually going up against air? Yeah. Crazy, crazy individual that's, you know, maybe it's a wolf, maybe it's not a wolf.

I don't know. I might want to just run away. You know, that would be me anyway. I'd be running the other direction.

Yeah. I'd be helping breast as a wolf, especially back in that time period. Yeah, it's very intimidating. That same philosophy, if you think about it, was used in World War II by the British, by painting the big tiger mouth on the front end of the airplane.

Oh, right. Right. And it was an intimidation thing. You see this flying large mouth and you understand it's an airplane, but it's very intimidating and it strikes a fear.

And of course, you know, the pilots take it as, you know, I'm the bad ass of the skies, but it was very much part of the psychological warfare that was used to give an image of something that it might not really be, but, you know, it was very effective, the Spitfire with a flying tiger mouth on it and it's still used, you know, it's still used today. Today isn't so much for the psychological warfare of it, but it's more of the, you know, I'm just a bad-pass pilot and it just looks cool on my airplane, but still, that's where it came from, was you shape-shift your airplane into a gorgeous animal, I'm sorry to strike a fear into your opponent, though you're into your enemy, so it was very effective. Oh, yeah. No, I'm sure.

I would be, I don't know, if I was on the opposing side and I knew that the people that I was fighting, let's say I knew that they did this, I would be half tempted to be like, okay, I'll play their game, I'll wear the wolf fur, I'll howl, and I think that it would confuse them because my side doesn't do that, but I did, so then they would be confused. So, you know, that goes back to the, you know, there was the escape of danger, use as punishment, and use to challenge, so. Right, right, right, yeah, the use of challenge, yeah, you would probably throw your opponents or your enemy into a, oh, what did I just get myself into if I'm, now they're thinking, hmm, am I up against the shape-shifter, yeah, good strategy, yeah, let's play in chess on the battlefield. Oh, very interesting.

I like this whole concept of shape-shifting, the more you think about it, the further you can take it and go, hmm, what could I actually do to those that I don't like, although I prefer not to have conflicts, but it certainly does paint an interesting picture to say, ah, I'll get big sharp teeth and put on this, although think of all the animals that were sacrificed in order to wear the wolf skin, you probably have this beautiful beastly animal that was just dominating the woods and here you sacrificed it so that you could pretend to be that, that's kind of sad in itself. You know, what's kind of fascinating too that I've noticed within, and I'm in a ball park, I'd say, within the last eight years about the shape-shifting topic is that so much of it is extraterrestrial related, that extraterrestrials are shape-shifting into the human form and every once in a while, that human form lets a little bit of that extraterrestrial be visual, like you'll see the reptilian eyes come out or an unusual behavior that is only represented by a specific type of creature, whether it be alien extraterrestrial, that type of thing. But yeah, I've noticed that's kind of coming up in the culture too, that the mantis type of alien, and that's so much the gray, but the mantis definitely, reptilian, definitely I think reptilian probably takes a top tier as being the shapeshifter that's taking the human form and every once in a while, and of course there's videos out there on YouTube land that you can watch and you can, you know, you can see their eyes changed. Right, you know, now is that an anomaly or is that CGI who knows, but again, I go back to that disclaimer of I don't know, I can't say that it's not true.

I'm not reminded to everything, you know, but is it possible that, you know, a reptilian can shape shift into the human form in order to blend in and be a chameleon amongst the human race? I will say this, I have a family member, so I've got a very close friend of the family and a family member that this happened between them. The woman who is the family friend, she has been into the spiritual scene for many years. She's had many experiences like we have all had, and she's, you know, she's a Reiki master and she practices just different divination tools and all kinds of different things.

Well, one time a family member was seeing her one afternoon for, I believe, an energy healing or angel session and her eyes changed to into cat eyes and right before my family member's eyes and it was such a profound moment for him to be like, oh my gosh, I just saw this and see I later went and spoke to her and I was like, hey, my family member said this, you know, and she laughed and she goes, well, yeah, you know, and we had talked about kind of where I was at in my spiritual road and how sometimes the difference between people, like the reason why something like that wouldn't happen between her and I is because I don't need that proof. I don't need to see to believe kind of a thing. So I mean, but at the same time, now being in this world where there's more research and more proof and more, you know, I do, I do get curious and so yeah, I think, you know, at the time, I didn't think too much about it. I thought, you know, okay, well, I believe this and that's fine.

But now I sit there and go, man, I want to see too, you know, right, right, right. And then to take it a step further, I want to know how to do that. Well, of course you do. It's you.

You're podcast podcast. Yeah. Exactly. You know, I always found it really amazing.

I think the most one of the most fascinating things about the Hollywood shapeshifter, let's say, the Wolfman, and I'm doing air quotes, I know we can't see it, but they ripped their shirt off and, you know, their clothes are torn. And of course, you're incredible. Hulk went through this too. They shred their shirt off when their pants are all shredded up and ripped and then, okay, you're back to human form again and your shirt is all fixed.

How did that happen? Oh, really? I didn't notice that because I could have sworn that I had seen at least with a Hulk. Well, no, and I want to say Wolfman too, that they did at least have shredded clothes when they, when they formed back.

Yeah. Yeah. Hey, you, you were doing something last night that you don't remember, right? But you shouldn't be wearing that same clothes though.

You should shed those clothes completely if it's a true metamorphosis. And then, I mean, you're not going to be able to put the clothes back on. No, this is true. Yeah.

And I don't think the full moon has anything to do with it either. I think that's. Oh, yeah. That's all.

Yeah. I don't think. Well, wow, you say that like, you know something I don't know. Well, all I can say is spiritually speaking and energetically, one thing that I have noticed since I became a mom and have kind of gotten into that mom community.

A lot of children who on a full moon night, I'm telling you, they're, they're little werewolves, you know, because they, oh, they're, oh, they're up so late and they're, they're more energized and they can't get them settled and you're just going, oh, it must be a full moon again. So right. I mean, maybe, maybe you can't physically transform on a full moon, but people mentally do. No.

And, and that is pretty much scientifically proven. Hey, you know, you want proof of it. Just go to any hospital or police department and take a look at any kind of incoming reports from days with full moons and you'll see their activity is certainly peaked. A lot of times, even birds, I mean, right, right, so, and especially in warmer weather when people are outside more, they're a little bit more active and do crazy things.

And I noticed it myself. I mean, I've noticed, you know, for conversations that you and I have had doing shows going, wow, this was everything just seemed to fall into place and it was a lot of fun. And I'm like, yeah, it's also a full moon and you're like, wow, that was amazing. Right.

Yeah, no, there's a lot to be said about it. But I think Hollywood took the full moon aspect and just added that for a little bit more drama, so to speak, as to maybe this is what turns the man into the wolf, so to speak. And it's kind of cool. Yeah.

Yeah. No, it's a good, I mean, it goes perfectly hand in hand with that, you know, so then it makes me want to look into the African lore with wear tigers or wear a lions and see what is it that would make them transform because it wouldn't think that it would be the moon and the moon isn't associated with that, but cats. So, you know, no, but they are an external animal. So true.

Maybe it's just a night thing. Man, I do imagine that instead of instead of every full moon that you turn that it's whenever the sun, every, you know, when the sun is just gone, that would be so much more intense. No, that is something to think about of it would probably wear you out if every time the sun goes down, you're changing into a large beastly cat of some sort, whether it's a jaguar or a wear lion, whatever, and football day, not enjoying the human existence because you're sleeping and recovery from being a cat all night. So really the only life you would know is being a cat and there's a there's a horrible trade off.

I'm sure you would spend a little bit of time in the human form going, oh, as soon as the sun goes down and back to being a cat again. Well, that's the same thing. Okay. Keeping daylight, saving time is to get those shapes that there's in the cat, a little bit of a break from that extra hour of time of being a human.

Well, but imagine this though, if it's every night and you're sheep shifting into this, whatever, I would think that because it's so often and that that's when you spend your awake time that in your human form mentally, you would also start transforming mentally because you're sleeping during your human form. So then you're waking up as this animal. I mean, eventually it would just get to the point where I would just beg to just be the animal fully and just my human form. Yeah.

Let's just end this right now. Just making a cat. Yeah. Exactly.

Yeah. Well, I would be afraid that, you know, if I were to be deemed with that shape shifting into a cat of some sort, it would be, you know, that tiny little type of cat, like, no, I wanted to be a tiger. Yeah. Exactly.

And I don't know if anybody, you know, has really done that comparison. I know most of all of our listeners have been to a zoo, but I've had the privilege of being face to face with both a male lion to a chain link fence, of course, but to be face to face with a male lion and then to be face to face with a bangle tiger, a bangle tiger is twice as big as a male lion. So where did this whole king of the jungle thing come from for the lion? I'm sorry.

That bangle tiger is twice as big the head. If I were to curl my body up into a ball, it's still bigger than my body. It's just immensely huge on how big a bangle tiger really is until your face to face, and you realize the soul that you're looking into when you're looking into its eyes and like, holy cow, yeah, to buy the whole king of the jungle thing, the lion. Yeah, they're intimidating.

Of course, I wouldn't want to come across one in the wild in a human form. And of course, it would suck to be a shapeshifter and you turn into a people and now you're in the land of the lion. And it's like, oh, how was that? So that I'll go back to my, I want to be a bird because that way I could just fly away and no predator could get me that way, then I would dominate this guy.

No, exactly. No, you know, there was a couple times in life that I came face to face with wolves. They were pretty much full blooded and their pets, they were pets though, and it was incredible and they were so big and it was amazing to just when they how well, it is so chill. Oh, yeah, right, right, you know, it's, it's kind of something that people might not think about.

I posted a picture on the existence a few days ago of Illinois with a large paw print and you know, there were those that were saying it might be a coy wolf or whatever. Having in the suburb in which I did at the time, now this goes back about maybe 15 years ago. But my next door neighbor notified me. He's like, hey, keep an eye on your kids because I saw a wolf last night in between the houses here.

And I know we have coyotes that run the gamut through our neighborhood here. And I looked at them with one eyebrow up going, okay, well, thank you. I really appreciate it. And I didn't put two and two together until I took the garbage out, now our garbage was kept outside like most people on the side of our house.

And I had the garbage bag in my hand and I walked out the front door and lo and behold, there's a gray wolf and it was a wolf and it was standing on the side of the house where that garbage can was and he just stood there staring at me and I, you know, I was shocked. And yeah, you get that flighter. You do get the flighter fight, you know, symptoms immediately, but I stood there and it put its head down kind of low and you know, it's positive out front of them, which is very submissive for a canine to do that. And so I don't, it may have just been as scared as I was and it was showing me, you know, it's being submissive, maybe doesn't want to have a problem.

And I couldn't believe the size of this thing. I mean, the thing was huge. Right. And of course it was, I believe about two days later, I heard on the radio and this was out of Chicago radio that they were tracking the Department of Natural Resources was tracking a pack of wolves that was running along the river, the Fox River, which we only lived a block away from.

They were just traveling out of Wisconsin and traveling down the river and was taking up territory in the neighborhoods, going through garbage or whatever, easy feed involuntary habituation like we talked about with Sean Forger in the Bigfoot episode. And okay, that gave me justification to hear that news report that yeah, there were wolves in the area. Yeah, we're fortunate enough to have them here and you think, wow, Chicago really, well, no, but they are in the area now, mind you, it's not in the urban area of Chicago. This is, you know, the suburbs, but they do travel along the river.

And now that we have this whole shapeshifting conversation going on, it's like, well, maybe it was, you know, an old neighbor that used to live in the house and it's just coming back for a visit. Who knows? Yeah, imagine that. You know, it's crazy because like thinking about all this, one of the biggest thoughts that pops in my head is dog man.

Now, this is a subject that I have not really jumped into. My knowledge really goes as far as that book that Linda wrote and then. Man through the long up thread. Yes.

And then I've only listened to maybe one or two episodes from Vic for dog man encounters. They were intense though. They really were like, it really seems like these dog men are one of the most evil cryptids. It just seems like full of dark energy.

And my thought though is it seems like there's reports from all over. And I know that I've heard that there's a report from Oregon, but I can't find it and it makes me curious. Well, are they here? I mean, we've got plenty to support them.

Oh, absolutely. So why wouldn't they be over here? Yeah, you have wolf population where you're at. And I do remember hearing some reports, not in a plethora, but I have heard reports coming out of Oregon and Washington state of an upright canid.

And again, you know, there's still a lot of science to be done and at least get evidence of some sort. Yeah, there was a one. There's some pictures out there. But again, that's not something you can hold in your hand is evidence.

It's something that you're looking at, but that whole subject is kind of creepy. Yeah. Well, I'll just ask too. Shout out to Vic and any listeners.

If you have any sightings and counters, stories of dog men or dog men type creatures, not Sasquatch that are in Washington or Oregon, send them my way. I would love to hear them, listen to them, read them, whatever, you know, I definitely want to try to get more educated, you know, especially since I loved to go out in the woods as much as I do. Right. And finally, here's the story for you, you know, you know, my different Sasquatch type encounters that I've had over there on Mount Hood, but up in the telemic forest, which is just right there along the coast, there is a road.

It's washed out now. You can't get well. I mean, the bridge washed out. So you'd have to take your truck through the river to get to the outside and get something you can easily do during the summertime, but along that road, it comes to this, you're at the very top of this peak and there's these huge boulders that are just crazy, like you have to climb up them and they're just, they're just sitting there.

It looks really strange. Honestly, it's like somebody just picked these things up and placed them, not, I don't want to say in a circle, kind of like a semi circle, kind of like, it just feels like they were put there. It doesn't feel natural, but I don't know. I can't say anything other than that, but they just, there's just a creepy feeling.

And the people that I'd go up there with, they also had a similar feeling. Well, if you go just a little bit further back from those rocks, which is only about one or two car lengths, there's kind of an area where you can go camping. Well, for some reason, I felt, it just felt super evil. And it's almost like there, it was like in my mind, or in your mind's eye, you could see this cave type of area and it seemed like whatever was there were cloaked in red, like wearing red cloaks.

So it's, it's exactly like those hooded cloaked figures that we were talking about with Sean that my sister and I have seen at the end of the bed, that these were, had red. And it was just the string and it felt so ancient. And I remember saying, we need to leave and I never want to come back and I never went back. Oh, sure.

But yeah, it's crazy. I never felt anything like that before ever. So, you know, so again, there we go, reaching out to our listeners, if anybody else have heard any kind of red-cloped entities, you know, let us know because that was crazy. Yeah, because I don't ever recall even having a bell ring with me as to something a story like that.

Right. That's false the name. But see, you know, when you bring that up and I think about Anubis, the Egyptian God and the duck, and where did that whole thing come from? I mean, I mean, here's your typical wolf headed, upright, human, and it was considered a God.

So therefore, it was feared. Where did that whole thing come from? You know, and of course, it's all speculation. All of this is speculation because none of us live in that time period to understand where the Anubis sexually evolved from or what it made it, you know, to be, so I don't know.

Funny thing, I actually have an Anubis statue. I've had it for I think about 12 years and it's, it always sits either on my desk or on my dresser by my bed. Yeah. For some reason, I've always been absolutely beautiful.

Yeah. I don't know. It's, you know, there's definitely a energetic calling to that particular. Oh, sure.

Yeah. Very fascinating. You know, when we were, we were talking about, you know, okay, so let's put this in the capsule of shapeshifting and that you had brought up the question of, you know, the dog man in Oregon or Washington state or in the Pacific Northwest and the ones here. And I've noticed for the amount of listening and the smaller amount of reading, but mostly the amount of listening, it seems like those that have had an encounter with an upright walking canine, nine times out of 10, the question is being asked, did it have hawks or did it have human legs?

Because apparently it's almost 50-50 of some have the human legs and others have that typical dog hawk with which people say the backward turned leg, which really isn't. The backward bone part is actually what would be like the heel of our foot and it walks on its toes and its tip, though, it's just a hawk, it's so much longer for us. But if you look at a dog's natural behavior, it does use its hawk quite a bit when it sits down or, you know, it's squatting and so it does it. To get a 50-50 feedback from witnesses to say, no, it had that backward leg looking thing.

I find that fascinating because maybe those are two entirely different and maybe the one with the human legs are a shapeshifter and the ones with the hawks, maybe that's just a whole different person that really hasn't been discovered yet, that it's a dog that's learned to be upright and walking and it might be because it lives in a swampy area and it's learned to walk upright so that it doesn't get water and it's fake. I don't know. It's just a speculation. It could be just a simple biological answer as far as that goes.

Look at all the different Sasquatchas that there are, you know, you go to a Sasquatch and there's a six different faces, you know, faces. All the different types, sure. Right. And so I think that it would be natural for a dogman to also have these varying, however, I mean, the Sasquatch, it's faces the only thing that's different.

It's pretty significant to have completely like two totally different legs, sets of legs. Yeah, right. So, I mean, who knows? Yeah, a level like you said, with a Sasquatch, it's a humanoid-shaped body, you know, it's all proportioned with each other.

Even if it's a small type of Sasquatch, the arms are still longer, it still has bipedal features about it. It walks around upright, which, therefore, is the term bipedal, but, you know, being of different heights. But, yes, you're right. There is no big, significant difference with the dogman.

How many reports of it is? No. It was an upright canine. It had either human legs or the hawks or hawks as legs that so many of them say it had human hands with claws on the fingers.

It just throws every dynamic, right? Yeah. Wow. Now you're talking about...

I'm sorry, but that's where Wolfson. I didn't think they were real, but apparently they are. I'll say this. There was one time I went to the zoo, and I was looking in at the chimpanzees, and there was only one.

And he walks in, and he sits down, and he was just right there on the other side of the glass, and I'm right here, you know? And it was just fascinating. And he seemed older. You could kind of tell he was older, and just the humanness to his eyes and his face.

It's weird because I've gone to the zoo since I was a kid. I've seen these animals since I was a kid, but in this moment, there was just this similarity that was shocking, and just, I mean, it really tugged on me unlike anything I've ever felt in my life. And so taking that experience and putting it into if I was to be standing in front of a Sasquatch or a dog man, something that would, I mean, I don't think I'd be able to handle it. I mean, just because of what happened looking at this chimp, just something seven foot tall or bigger, and to be like, but the craziest thing is about the hardest thing to grasp is that you can sit there and look into its eyes, but it's an animal.

Like, it's not a human, it can't talk like you and I can, it can learn, but it doesn't have the full development like we do, and it would just be so hard to grasp that about a Sasquatch. I just think it would be really mind-boggling. Mm-hmm. No, you can go down an entirely different rabbit hole just on that subject alone, you know, the chimpanzee, the indigenous creature here, and we're the alien species that were brought here from somewhere else, and just, and we share the majority of the DNA with the chimpanzee, but yeah, I mean, I had that experience too, you know, you're looking right into the eyes and you see a soul there, and you're making that connection, and it's just like, you could just have a conversation with this thing, and you're, you wonder how much of it is there with the understanding, because I think they do understand if you're talking in a common voice to them, they're receiving it, they hear what, you know, they hear these vocalizations coming from you, whether they understand your language or not, but then if you were to speak to somebody from a different country that you don't know us back of their language, that you were to talk to them the same way, they would probably understand that you're making a connection with them and don't see it as a threat, and you know, there's a lot to be said, so when you come across a 10 to 12 foot tall, by beetle preacher, you know, that's a moment that just changes everything in your life, and I've never had the experience and, you know, what you wish for, I believe they exist, you know, we have so many friends in this community and friends that listen to the show that have had that encounter, and I totally believe them, I believe them with all my heart, even with the conversation that we had with Sean Corker on last Tuesday or whenever Tuesday that show aired, and he talked about the elderly couple with a Sasquatch going through the dumpster, you know, I believe that with all my heart that yes, it does exist, and if you saw something like that, you looked into its eyes, it would be terrifying because now, now the shoe is on the other foot, now you're the chimpanzee on the other side of the glass speaking to something that you don't understand, but it's looking at you right in the eye making that connection with you, you know what, something really interesting, you know, we have all these other were animals, right, all these other things that humans can transform into, supposedly, I didn't see anything about any kind of monkey or Sasquatch, I mean, you would think that if we could shapeshift, you know what I mean, like, why isn't it something that's so, you know, much closer to us, why is it a cat, you know, or a dog, why not, you know, yeah, then that's a really good question, but now think about the history and the discovery of the chimpanzee and the silverback gorilla, it's only been in modern history that those creatures were discovered by the human race, it was always spectacle of, you know, cave drawings and so on that this is just a mythical pre, and it was blown off until the silverback gorilla was discovered, and of course it's been less than 20 years that the, this last upright, upright primate was discovered, and I'm sorry, I forgot the name, I had it right there on the tip of my tongue as to what the name of that chimpanzee, but it stands six feet tall and it walks around by peatly, it doesn't walk on, it's not a quadruped walker, it walks by peatly, and for years and years it was thought that this creature was just a myth, and here it was discovered that there was a small colony of them, okay, now that changes the dynamics of everything because that is now getting closer to the discovery of a bigfoot type of creature, so getting much closer to it, the billy ape, that's the name of its probability, and I believe its discovery was in 2008, so we're talking very relative history, so as far as shapeshippers, you know, being over the centuries of shapeshifting into a wolf, or into a cat, or into a were lion, probably because the entire primate species wasn't even discovered yet, so it wasn't put into the dynamic of shapeshifting, maybe that's why, I'm only speculating, but maybe that's why.

No, I had an idea, so you mentioned that the billy apes in the silverback gorillas were written on cave walls, right, so if you take everything that was written, just for fun, take everything that's been written on cave walls, the different animals, and let's make them all real, what else would be real? Alright. That would be so awesome. Yeah, good question.

I mean, there are higher glyphs of things that still make us scratch our head, including anubis, okay, you can throw that in because that was done in a hieroglyph in the ancient Egypt world, but as far as the cave paintings were, you know, and of course a lot of people will close their eyes and picture cave paintings, and you'll see your typical mammoth and buffalo and so on, which, yeah, that was part of the food source, and it was part of the hunt, and I think it was documented that way, but yeah, there are some creatures that still dragon-like creatures that have, you know, anthropology and archaeology and all the ologies scratching their heads going, what made them see this flying creature with big bat-like wings in a serpent body, so, you know, maybe there wasn't anything. Even back in early paintings, I don't think it was on cave walls, I mean, maybe it was, but in really early paintings, there were UFOs in the sky. Oh, yeah, that's very infamous along with the biblical era depicting, you know, Christianity in artwork, but yeah, so much of it has that UFO in the background or whatever, and nobody can really point to say, well, no, actually, you're looking at it wrong. How can you look at it wrong?

It looks like a frickin' spaceship with a human or a humanoid sitting inside of it, flying around, long before flight was even discovered, so, you know, and then, of course, I always jump back to, you know, look at your depictions of Jesus Christ, and the halo isn't above the head, the halo starts at the shoulder and goes around the head much like a clear bubble space helmet, so, who's to say, you know, and of course, you've just dug another rabbit hole that we could go down for days and days and days, but, you know, it is fascinating on how the human species has documented its history and the creatures around us and the things that happened around us throughout millennia, and yet we're still holding that mystery in our hand as well. What did it represent? And I'll just go back to this point where it seems like human history isn't this continual chain. It seems like, in the human existence, there's this blank spot where we lost all this information between where we are now and what happened to them, because if the human existence was this continual chain, the teachings of, let's say, the Anubis, for example, would still be carried through today for us to have a complete and total understanding of what it is, and not an interpretation.

Right. It would be taught and be taught, but somehow it seems like there's this big, giant blank spot in the human existence where now we're looking back at our past and trying to put the pieces together as to what happened, and that fascinates me altogether, and once again, that's an entirely different show with its own rabbit hole, but I find this whole thing so fascinating with A, the shapeshifters, and where did it all come about from, and what creatures were actually chosen to be, you know, the shapeshifting creatures and creatures becoming in the human form too. All of this is just absolutely, you can lose your mind in it, but it's part of why we're in this community is to try to lose our mind, because at some point in some conversation, one person might say something so profound that it opens up a door that people never thought of before and go, oh, you know, never really thought about that before, and here they open up that door, and maybe beyond that door is the answer. We can only hope, at least I hope, you know, that's why we do this, is we're always in search of an answer, and of course, you know, for our listeners, because you're the greatest listeners in the world, really feel free, put your thoughts into the library of lore interactive Facebook group page, and put some of your thoughts in there as to what you think about the whole shapeshifting thing, do you believe it's a possibility, do you believe it's a definite reality, or do you believe it's all just a bunch of stories, and of course we don't judge by anybody that writes in there, or put your opinion in, so yeah, that entire thing is, it can give you goosebumps, you know, it really can, when you think about it for an extended period of time, and then of course you go to bed and then you have dreams about it, it's like, oh, I escaped it last night, my dreams, it was fantastic.

Oh my gosh, you know, I think done that a couple times in dreams that I remember I was a burden, and I could fly, and it was crazy because you could really, I mean, it was so familiar, such a familiar feeling like this was so normal for you, and just the second nature, it was crazy, and then, let's see, when I was a kid, okay, this is going to be really dorky, but the sake of the show, when I was a kid, I used to love to dress an all black, black long-sleeve shirt, black, I'm like sweatpants, put on black socks, and then I put my hair back, and I would try to stay within the shadows, all through the house, and I would crawl and try to sneak, and I was pretending I was a jaguar. I think I did start as a little kid that I did have a dream, where I actually was a jaguar, because I was so into it, you know, so. Well, they're an absolutely beautiful creature, and of course, jaguar, you know, it's just one term, I know, black panther is another term, he is, but it's all basically the same now. Oh, yes, yeah, there's, yeah, there's a, the other spot of jaguar, there's black jaguar, there's, you know, jaguar is a wide array of different types, it's like saying dog, in case you have different colored dogs, different types of dogs with jaguar, panther, you know, it's all still part of the same thing, but, well, yeah, listen to you sneaking around your houses, the pants are in the shadows, right?

I think our listeners are getting to know me a little too well, I'm starting to share my secrets. Oh, there's plenty of secret people that, oh, there's still a whole book of secrets you don't know yet, so yeah, don't, don't worry about that, Jen, they, they, they know, they only know the tip of the iceberg. Yes, that's true. I do have the privilege and information, and if anybody wants to donate, oh, let's say $50 to the Patreon, I'll be happy to develop a little bit more information.

Here you go. Part of our, well, Patreon campaign that we do here at the caravan of lower, does it cost us money to do this? But that said, this is an absolute passion that Jennifer and I love to do, and we love to bring this type of stories to you guys, and that's really the most important thing. This is not a money-motivated process that we go through.

It just doesn't help to have something in there to upgrade equipment. Of course, Jennifer, you just bought a new microphone. Congratulations. I did.

I was really excited. I had to, I got a new microphone, and then I had to get a new pop screen and a new boomstick, and hopefully. I love the fact that you call it a boomstick, because I, I, you know, okay, there's a whole story behind the boomstick, all right? She didn't get a new rifle, people, she got a new mic thing for a microphone.

That's no new rifle for Jennifer in the boomstick here. But I just love the fact that you do that. I think it's adorable. I really do.

Yeah, well, and it's crazy. Hopefully, so this is the second episode that I've recorded on the new mic. So I'm hoping that the listeners find it a little more pleasing than before. So, you know, learning the audacity ropes, but, you know, it's going really well.

And as for the patron, I definitely do want to give a shout out to our two wonderful patrons, Ryan, Sprague, and Justin from Mysterious Circumstances podcast. It's an honor to have them on there, and we are patrons of them too, so you guys should also check out their podcast somewhere in the skies. We have two tiers right now for a patron. The first one is just a dollar a month where you get, you know, you'll get shout outs.

You will be put on the episode page as one of our patrons. And if you have a podcast, if you have a link to a website, I'll put it on there. The next tier is $5 a month, and you get, you get your name on the thing and you get the shout outs and everything. But you also get a monthly card reading or intuition reading rather.

So in our group every Friday, I'll pull three cards and you just pick one, whatever one, you know, you feel called to, and then the next day I reveal it. Well, with the intuitive reading, it's a lot more in depth. So you get, you know, all three cards. If not, sometimes there's more to think I'm spread that I do.

I also use like my angel board and my pendulum and other means of divination to get it get a deeper reading. So yeah, definitely, you know, and then the money that comes in from that, I would be honored to be able to start to travel around to the different haunted places and do more write-ups about my experiences and then do an episode on it like we did with the McMahon's Grandma Lodge and the Ghost Log. I think that would be fantastic. So those are some goals that I have.

You know, this is definitely a passion. In fact, I talked to some friends from school and they're like, oh, how are you doing? You know, because it's been, I graduated in 2005. And I'm like, oh, I'm pretty good.

And, you know, I'm doing this over here with the caravan and everything. And they're like, wow, oh my gosh, I can't believe that. You know, we can, you always had a passion for it back in school. How cool is that you get to do that now?

And that was a huge compliment. It really meant a lot to me because yeah, this is definitely definitely where my heart lies. Well, that, with that said, and a big congratulations to somewhere in the skies, you know, Ryan does do a fantastic show. If none of you have heard it yet, he does put together a really neat production.

And of course, it's UFO based and related because if you're anything like me, I don't stick on just a one-subject matter and fascinate on big foot. I'm only big foot. No, I love to bounce around because I'll get bored with, you know, the big foot thing here. But you know what, this little spiny creature over here is kind of interesting.

And who I get to that file. Oh, it's an amazing pool of so many possibilities. I know. Very much so.

But anyway, with the Patreon, the money doesn't go anywhere else other than directly back into the show. It doesn't go to buy a car payment. It doesn't go out for groceries or the mundane. It goes directly for everything related to the show.

It helps keep the website active. It helps keep the podcast active. It keeps maintenance on equipment because, you know, just like your car, you need to change the oil in the microphone every three thousand miles. Right.

There you go. But I just want everybody to know that that is a reassurance of the fact that the money, it does cost Jennifer and myself to do a podcast. Like I said, we do it for the love of it. And we got into this on our own decision and our own passion to do this.

So it is our responsibility. But in order to improve and make it blossom like a beautiful flower, it does take a little bit of financing to have that happen. So if you do decide to do that, we would be forever in your debt. And of course, you know, the big shout out back to you and great support.

And you would have a greater influence on the show itself. If there's a specific subject that you would really like to hear about, Jennifer and I would be the first ones to jump both feet in and research that subject matter as a patron donor, we would jump in both feet and just do as much research and do a show on it, just as a thank you back to you. So too, in return. And that would be our biggest thank you to you.

Yeah. No, for sure. And we will let Sean take us out tonight with our new outro music as well as you can find him now. On every single one of our episode pages, I will make sure to link his band page and his Instagram.

And he also has a Facebook page for his music so you can follow along with his tour dates and all the new songs that he comes out with fantastic. Now I'm looking forward to hearing it. So go ahead. Awesome.

Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you, everybody. See you next time.

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