Shiloh Forestry School

Hi, I'm Holly. And I'm Hailey. Welcome to Mountain Mysteries Tales from Appalachia. Welcome back everybody.

Hailey is sipping her beverage. Yeah, man, it's got a glass straw in it. It makes us a little like... You added that.

I was on my way here. The lady at Starbucks said, do you think you want a straw? And I said, no, we've got to be a secret straw. And then Hailey needed a straw.

So she brought her own. But it's a metal straw. So I'm like saving the planet. Yes, you are.

I'm a little bit proud of you. With the plastic that you're drinking out of. With the plastic cup that I'm trying to drink. It's okay.

We're going to recycle it. We will recycle it. Alright, Hailey, are you ready to jump right in? I'm sorry.

Okay, let's do it. Today, we're talking about the Shiloh Forestry Compound. Have you ever heard of this? No.

Okay, so I haven't either. And this has a very story history. Very haunted. Nice.

Yeah. And I don't do as many haunted stories as you do. So I'm really excited about this. I'm excited too.

I'm excited to hear one. Me too. So this is located near the Biltmore Estate in Asheville, North Carolina. So we're headed back to Asheville this week.

I was so excited because the more I dived into the story dove dove. I have to dove dove dove dove. The more I dove, English is art. The more I dove into the story, the more I was like, oh my gosh, I want to visit this place.

So I want to start off by giving complete credit to the Asheville Terror's blog site for this information. I love that site. You got me turned onto it. No, it's so good.

Yeah. It's amazing. So alright. No, no, who the person is.

I don't either. But actually, I think we should have them on the podcast. If you're out there and you write that blog. You're out there.

So come talk to us. We'd love to interview you. Yes. So before we get started, I just want to clarify that a forestry compound, at least in this context, was a building used like a school to teach about forestry and it also housed a lot of the equipment.

Yeah. And I also think this is one of the places where the forestry specialist, the teacher lived. Okay. I see, I was thinking compound that I'm thinking more like a, I don't really know, like a plot of land that's like got a lot of going on.

Not like a national park. Sort of. Sort of in a sense. I mean, you know, it was, there was a lot of land around it.

And we'll get into a little bit more of the history of it. But I just wanted to give you some context of what this building was because I just hear forestry compound. I'm like, I'm like, I'm not. But also compound, I kind of think cold.

A little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Like, like every time they talk about Waco, they're like, in the Waco compound.

Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't sound good. Not great.

No. Okay. We could get our own compound. We could.

Why don't we make enough money to have a compound? It's going to be fine. Let me just tense. We, we'll get followers.

Yeah. It'll start out as a tense city. Now, listeners, if you want to come in, put a tin up, then a random field with us. Let us know.

Here's the thing. I'm bougie. I need an indoor bathroom. Best I can do is port a potty.

I'm going to show up in an RV. I'm going to be very boosted in that way, but I'm going to have to have somebody dump the, you know, dump the black water. That's great. Yeah.

I mean, I can best I can do is port a potty. I don't appreciate that. It's all I got. All right.

Here's the thing. And you can completely say yes. Okay. Hotel.

Well, just for us though. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

So obviously outside of hotel parking lot, but you know, let's do it swanky. Like let's do a little bit better. Like, you know, not an like, eco large. Let's do something like a holiday and I was like, not a super eight.

No, just like one notch above the holiday and express. It's not bad. Yeah. I love a condo breakfast.

Maybe a comfort in that's very comforting. Yeah. All right. No interest in that.

Yeah. We'll tell you up at the end, how contact us. I thought something that you're down for. And by the way, though, I don't think the hotel will let random people come in and use the bathroom.

So if you're down with that port a potty or you're good with one outside, we can make this happen. Yeah. Good. Poup trowel.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, non-existent camping and hiking that we do. I'm glad you know about all that. I don't know about a poop trow.

Okay. So back to the Shiloh Forestry compound. That word. So let's give you a little bit of history before I tell you about the hauntings.

Okay. So it's 1888, great year. George Vanderbilt, one of the wealthiest men in America at that point, had decided that he was going to build a country home in Asheville, North Carolina. A country home.

A country home. Again, when you think country home, you think like, I don't know, maybe small cottage. A little little cabin. Yeah.

You know, somewhere in the mountains. Yes. Yes. Oh, no, no, no.

He did it big. You know, he loved the mountains. And it's a sea of 1895 construction on George's little country home was complete. The house, of course, was not little.

It is actually one of the largest private homes in America at about 175,000 square feet. Huge. And it sits on nearly 11 miles of land. Have you been inside the house?

I have. I like Christmas one year. Oh, but it was beautiful. Yes.

Gorgeous. It is so pretty. And just the land around it. I mean, it's so well maintained and it's just beautiful.

The spring is lovely too. Yes. When I was a kid, I was on a folk dance clogging team. Same.

I did actually all over college. But this youth team that I was on, we danced at the Filmor House. Gosh, it was lovely. I feel like at least once a month.

Oh my gosh. We were like outside the house because your taps on your shoes echo too much to be inside. That makes sense. So we were like right outside the house and they moved us to one of ours.

Well, they say that Filmor is actually very haunted itself. Oh, yeah, for sure. So maybe, you know, we can save up to an episode on that, which would be really exciting. Have you kind of called to do it from there?

Right. Passes or not cheap. No, cheap. No, cheap.

And we are. So, you know, like a bean issue. He's got his massive property. I don't see how he couldn't really.

How do you grow interest in the lush greenery that surrounded him? And in fact, he wanted to make sure that the grounds were well maintained and cared for. He actually researched and sought out a German forestry specialist by the name of Carl A. Shink.

Shink. I do too. Carl was one of the co-founders of forestry school in Germany and is largely credited with making forestry a science. Cool.

So Carl worked for Forest Service in Germany. He was the foremost forest ambassador and received his PhD in forestry science. Me too. I love that.

I didn't realize that Carl and I had so many comments. With your forestry degree? Yeah, in the hotel. In the hotel.

I won't go outside. Yeah, it feels right. It feels right. It does.

It does. No, we have a forestry team. I don't know if we have a forestry team, but like the county schools that I work in, they have a really big FFA group team. Which, though, you don't know, that's future farmers of America.

They're so good. They're the team to be, I mean, well, they're really, I mean, phenomenal. People who run it and are so fantastic. And that goes really great.

But they, I believe, I don't know if they have a forestry team, but I believe when my brother was younger, he did forestry through that group. Really? Went to competition. I don't think he did well.

Wait, there's competitions? Yeah. Like, FFA has all these competitions and they go to and there's like different categories. There's like animals, like, stuff with animals and then they do like forestry and like natural resources and like a horticulture.

I really think that that would somewhat be up my son's alley somewhat. He likes some like farming equipment. But he's much more into like construction. Yeah.

And so I think one of the categories is like identifying tools. Like, I feel like I'm maybe making this up if you're into FFA, let me know if I'm totally talking out in my butt here, which it could be. But I always like read the reports when I come back from competition of like who plays and what. And then I do like all this interview stuff and like very professional.

Interesting. It's really, really cool. If you have it, if you have like kids or whatever, it's a really cool club. I had absolutely no idea.

It was awesome. FFA get involved. Super cool. So a lot of this really was brought about by Carl when he came to the US.

I mean, how to PhD? So this guy knew a thing or two about Ma's trees, all the things. You know that believes the branches, the trees and the leaves that fall. Yeah.

You got it. Just like we do. You know, I got my PhD too. Carl's boss let him know, hey, there's a rich dude in the US who wants you to come and build a school of forestry on his property.

Sure. He wants you to educate others on how to maintain this landscape. He was also told that this great adventure would be worth his while financially and would further his career. Okay.

Carl said heck yeah. He hopped a boat and traveled from his home in Darnstadt, Germany to the US. George was waiting on him. Nice.

I just think the airport was ready. Well, and I don't think George was in New York when he came, but you know, he just was a sign that said I'm rich. Carl. Carl.

Mr. Shink. I'm ready for you. I think that's his first name, right?

It is. Carl. But when I was typing this, I kept writing Carol and I was like, no, Holly, not Carol. Carl.

But yeah, he probably was and maybe he just had a lot of cards and so he didn't speak and he cycled through and it's the forestry. Forestry. I am rich. Hi.

I love you. Please come build this house for me. Yes, I'm sure someone of his elite stature was actually there himself. Right.

He was not. He sent somebody. 100% to collect him and bring him back to North Carolina. So George wanted to make sure that Carl was using his scientific know-how to take care of the land.

That was really important to him. And he didn't just want anybody. You know, I guess when you have that kind of money, you can be picky and choosy. Now, I do have a yard guy, by the way, but really his only qualifications is that he has a mower, a weeder and some basic skills.

You know, I mean, honestly. Yeah, I do. I know. But now that it's winter, I'm not having a mower right now.

That's just really nice. My brother, who is also my roommate, currently takes care of the hedges. He's got the hedge. They can get out of hand.

Yeah, they get wild. Yes, they do. And I don't trust myself with that hedge. It's scary.

It's loose and armed. Right. And you need your arms. Yeah, I do.

Someone such as I who has the PhD in forestry, I am very equipped with equipment. Yeah. You know, I, yeah. Yeah.

So that's why I have someone. That's why you are. I say, you know what? I'm going to make the neighbors feel bad with my skillset.

Right. So how somebody else do it? Somebody have somebody else do it so they don't feel bad. I feel bad.

That's usually what I do. And to keep on par with the HOA. So anyway, all right. So George had an old farmhouse on his land and had advised Carl that this would be a wonderful place to build a forestry compound.

Nice. The old farmhouse was torn down and a new building, a compound was erected. So why? It is why.

George worked really hard and by 1898. So three years after coming to the US, he opened the Biltmore School of Forestry. Cool. At that point, that's what it was called.

Yeah. And it was called the Biltmore School to be open in North America. But you know, shortly other people heard about it. So there's one that quickly opened in New York.

You know, obviously. Oh, yeah. So the school provided a year-long training that included lectures during the day and then hands-on forestry training during the afternoon. The school was very successful and Carl proved himself to be one of the top foresters in the country.

He introduced a great deal about management systems and how to properly care for the ecosystem that surrounded them. And I really feel like I need Carl's help in just basically keeping plants alive. Yeah. Several that I'm questioning.

I'm questioning my PhD. Yeah. So Holly, they wouldn't have given you that PhD in forestry if you didn't know what you were doing. How did you feel as a chancellor?

So when I start having doubts, I just tell myself, you got this. When I plant dies in your kitchen window. I tell myself, you got this. I toss it in the garbage.

And I start again because you know what? I got this. Yeah, I keep trying. Yeah.

You said I quit you trying. Now the positive thing is I've been able to keep my child alive. That's good. I think that's the overriding.

That's the most important one. Yeah. And that's probably why I can't always pay attention to those plants. But anyway, if you're curious what a typical day the forestry school was like, as I mentioned, the mornings would always start out with lectures from Carl.

Detailed lectures that had his students just, wow, amazed at his skill set and his knowledge. Afternoons were spent exploring the forest and using the techniques taught by Carl earlier in the morning. So I like that actually because it really is sort of an unofficial assessment every single day. So what did you learn in school this morning?

I can apply it this afternoon. I think it's pretty cool. It's nice. Carl was very hard on his students and very demanding of them.

Yeah, yeah. But his students weren't offended by his perfectionism. In fact, they looked at him with a great deal of esteem and respect. So yeah, I mean, I would think he seems like he could be kind of harsh.

Yeah. But I appreciate that. I mean, if they're paying all this money, maybe they wanted to be eaten a little bit. Do you know?

Probably be down here. Maybe with a stick. Or stick. Or stick.

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point to keep the school going, George told Carl to reach out to the banks for loans. And he would help pay back the loan when times were better. Will Carl reached out for the loans and he got them but George didn't pay for them so then Carl was on the line for that money. Yeah.

Carl confronted George which led to Carl officially being fired. Carl continued to run the school from a distance but it was pretty hard to manage. I mean this was before Zoom. Right.

And it ended up closing in 1913. Carl went back to Germany where he eventually died in 1955. Yeah. So George Vanderbilt died.

The following year after the school closed so he died in 1914 and his estate was left to his wife who ended up selling off about 86,000 acres and she sold them for $5 an acre. Which I know that doesn't sound like a lot but in 1914 $5 was a lot. And she sold them to the forestry service which has now become part of the Piska National Forest. And this was actually George Vanderbilt's wish that you know if she had to sell off the land that she would sell it off to somebody who would preserve it.

Right. Not just develop it put lots of houses on it. Exactly which we see so common now. So from my understanding though the forestry school building is still on that land at this point and so it was not touched which is good.

So once the school closed in 1913 the building was left vacant for at least seven years. And as we all know often vacant buildings make the perfect place for to potty. So much debauchery. So much debauchery.

And records. And recoup. And other vermin and possums. Yes.

And scorally for squirrels and aroos. And the attic. That's terrible. I'm bats and my attic.

I was like oh I remember that. Yeah. It was. But they had to have specialists come and remove and you can only remove bats at certain times of the year.

August being you know one of the times. So they go in and they remove them and do all the things they need to do to make sure you don't get bats and you're anic. Exciting. Yeah.

I do like bats. I think they're cool. I don't necessarily want them in my attic. Yeah.

No. But I like when they fly around. Yeah. But dusk.

Yeah. They're cool. Well we you know we want to make sure when we're doing those recess lights that there are any bats in the attic. Yeah.

True. That's always a problem. Yeah. Okay.

So the forestry compound was pretty secluded in the woods. So it's not like a lot of people would be passing by. Soon the compound was up and running again. But not with forestry nerds.

No, no. Hailey what do you think took over the compound besides rodents? Besides raccoons. Really just cold.

Oh that would be fun. This feels right. Oh it does feel right. That's new.

That's colony. Oh. Also feels right for the area. It does feel right.

Especially it's actual. It does. It feels right. Somebody let their armpit hair just dangled.

Just blow in the breeze. And in the scent. Just just towards you. Topless.

I mean do get things like yeah whatever flute you feel very free. Very agile. Very like I kind of love that for them. I don't think I could do it.

Say I but like if that's for you. Yeah. Yeah. I would go for you bathed, shaved and clothed.

I don't really care. Do you think? No I'm saying when we do this podcast. Oh we do podcast.

I'm not going to put clothes on. Yes. I could just repeat it. You cannot use your laptop to cover to cover.

It doesn't do it. Got it. Got it. Got it.

No. Any other guests about what you think this turned into? Oh they're really just cold. They're just colony.

Site for satanic rituals. No but that does sound groovy. No. That's all I got.

Hoorhouse. How could I have forgotten? A Hoorhouse. Exactly.

How? How? The most fun out of all of them. It's a great way to make money.

I mean I'm on. That's right up there with I mean user skills as fun as place for satanic rituals. That's true. It really is.

Both seem like a good time. It really does. And that's unfortunate that you didn't get that right. So you know it's fine.

Prostitutes begin meeting their johns in the compound and it became a notorious secret meeting place quote unquote like you know a secret that we all know about. The secret we all know about sex work is happening. We're doing the thing. Yep.

And the old Forster compound. Wow that just feels right. It does. It does.

It does. Assuming that you are willing participants. Yeah. We're in participants for what happens.

Yeah. You are you know everybody is healthy and not there against our will. Exactly. That sounds like a great time.

But the big problem with the Hoorhouse is well there goes the neighborhood. I know it kind of ruins the country home ambiance. Don't you think? I think it does.

I think you know it's like I will have my 175,000 square foot country home and oh there's the Hoorhouse. That's so good. How's it? It kind of works with what we're planning of we're in the hotel and then there are random tent cities.

Are we running a brothel? I think we could. That's a better money in that. That is true.

Wow. Let's not let that come to this. You know at this point. No I think we're doing all right.

Yeah. No more sure. I've been. Yeah.

Well, we'll come to this. But I mean like no I think that's a you know one just popped up in your neighborhood. How would you feel? I don't know how that would happen.

I'm looking a pretty nice suburban family or I mean that seems like the perfect place for one. I mean I guess people would know Randy the Garchak may have some questions about these random men who are just coming in and out. I'm her actually hauling. Actually no no I need a name that's not my own.

Um what's not like a. Hoorhouse name for me. Oh god. I don't know.

I like pinky or something. You know. I'm here to see. Sparkles.

Oh that's nice. Yeah. I'm trying to think of my friend to our exotic dancers and the names that they go by. I do like sparkles.

No sparkles. So we'll think on that. I'm here to see diamonds. Oh that's a good one.

I know a person in real life named Diamond. I don't think she would engage. We don't know. It's extra money.

You know everybody. I mean you know it's actually a thing. You know I'm willing to participate. You go for it.

Exactly. I don't want you to win Mo me. It's gonna be cash only cash only. Yeah.

Yeah. I like it. All right. Even on the dresser.

So we got this brothel going on and I have no idea of the Vanderbilt family at this point was aware of what was going on. You know Georgia's widow and daughter owned the property. So maybe they did. Maybe they're just like whatever.

So while the brothel was in full swing it was also rumored that the place was where people would go to. Sometimes commit suicide. Namely hang themselves and there were also it was this place where. So I'm gonna word it like this and then we're gonna kind of maybe play catch up on this.

So where visual aunties would take quote unquote criminals and lunch them and the last execution. I say that in air quotes was to place in the early 50s. Now. Here's what I want to say.

I don't want to use the word visual anti exactly because I am very unclear on what this was. Right. We are talking about Jim Crow south. So I don't know if this was like a lynch mob thing.

People you know that's why I thought racism and all that. So it could be that. But it also seems like the place where a lot of just like. Depository with having you know what I mean like almost like a satanic.

You know sort of thing. So I mean either way either way it's horrible. Yeah. So later on in the 60s it was a place where people would go drink and get high.

Okay. Yeah. All right. That's fine.

Sure. That feels better than any of the other activities we've done. Sitting in the forest. The compound get in high.

All right. So now you've got the history. It's time to talk about the hauntings. Yes.

All right. It is believed that in the 1920s a prostitute was murdered by one of her johns at the compound. I know her spirit is said to be one of the many residing there. Other spirits that haunt them include those who have been hanged and even Carl Shink himself.

He came back from Germany. Yes. Shit. And he's back.

He's back. It was said that the last word Shink said to George Vanderbilt was how he would get his revenge. All right. Yeah.

So you're gonna fire me. Yeah. Just haunt the show. I'm never leaving.

He did leave. But I mean. But then he came back. But then he came back.

Yeah. All right. And it kind of has that ownership of like this space is mine. Yeah.

That conversation in the afterlife of like a listen. I know I died in Germany but yeah. There's anyway. That does breed the question.

The place and location where you died isn't necessarily where you're gonna haunt. You could really haunt anywhere. Yeah. Assuming that they come to me and say all right.

Yeah. I like to be a part of that. So I can take notes and then help with your assignments. That really does help.

I mean even if you died Haley somewhere else and you said I really mean a lot to me to haunt this particular space. I would say you know what? I'm gonna give it to you. I'm gonna give it to you.

I'm gonna get it to you. I'm on your own. You're on a well a 90 day. 90 day.

Yeah. And if you do well then we'll keep you on. But we have to see how it goes. And that's what we did with Carl Shink.

Clearly. He said I want my revenge. We said you got it dude. And so now he is forever haunting the compound.

Nice. But the first ever known hauntings of the Forstry compound were said to take place in the early 1960s. Some of the residents of Asheville passing through noticed lights turning on and off in random windows. There's also been occurrences of doors opening and closing all by themselves.

You know. And it could be. Did you have hands? It's just records.

It's just records. Those records are chewing through wires. There are electrical issues in that place. They are opening doors.

Yeah. Records. They are pretty mischievous little creatures. Yeah.

So those individuals who actually were brave enough to go inside the compound so that no matter how much like how it was warm outside like you felt like you know 95 degrees outside. When you would go inside of the building it was freezing cold. Which if you all have watched the sixth sense they say that when you're about to experience or you're near like you know ghostly spirits or you're in somewhere that's haunted it's very very cold. Yeah.

And you would you know like see your breath. So one visitor believed that the temperature inside the building was actually around 40 degrees in the summer. No I've been in all buildings like that. That's the they're drafty but also they are colder.

Yes. Like they do they're just not insulated well. Right. But like even the summer like they're cooler.

Yeah. Inside like I've been in like old up in like on pounds up on like in Cades Cove and the Great Smack Mountain National Park. They have all these different structures and local churches and houses that were built way back when you go in and they are cold. Like they're just colder.

It's like they're not well insulated but they're well built to where they hold. Right. Here's a bit of the problem though. If it's 95 degrees outside and you go into a building and it's 40.

Yeah. That just yeah. It may be like I could see it being you know 20, 10, 20 degrees colder inside. But not 40 degrees.

Not 40 degrees. Yeah. It's cold. Yeah.

So I mean that's indicative of you know maybe some other than raccoons. Other than raccoons. Yeah. Another previous visitor had reported seen a tightened noose that was still hanging from one of the rafters.

Children. Oh those silly youth. Youth stacked out. Just getting their highs by trying to die.

But like no just you know just playing you know being silly like a Halloween or something. Yeah. So apparently there are some toilets downstairs. That one flushed.

Uh fill with blood. Rest in the pipes. Sorry. Sure.

So these are all just rusty. Absolutely. But like if you have a turn to your water on like I know when there's issues with like if the water hasn't run over the wind time like your power goes out or they're working on the line or something and you turn it on and it is like a rust color. What brownish?

Like a brownish reddish yeah color that comes out. Yeah but filling with blood. Blood. I don't know.

There's a difference between rust and blood. I'm gonna go with rust. Sure you will. You're ruining my story.

Oh yeah. Go with rust. All right we'll go with rust. Okay.

She's trying to make a try to make some logical stuff. I'm trying to make some logical stuff. She doesn't want she this can't have happened to the Fordsdrit school. No.

I gotta preserve it. Others have reported taking shadowy figures moving around and it felt the presence to the point where they were fleeing and terror. Mm raccoons? I tell you what here's what they were doing.

Raccoons were urinating blood into the toilets and turning on lights moving door. Yeah they were doing all that. I don't know about the shot. I don't know if I can do shadowy figures.