Somewhere (2010) [RE-Release]

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Hello and welcome to Cagedim Presents Co-Pli Connections. As ever brought to you by the Breadcrumbs Collective and hosted by me, Petros Pass. If you are a regular listener and you listen to end of last week's episode, you would already know that this week is a re-release. It's my conversation with the fantastic Mary Wild all about Sophia Copolo's 2010 film, Somewhere.

This is a re-release to celebrate Sophia Copolo's birthday, which was just a mere two days ago on the 14th. And with the recording schedule of my brand new podcast with Daryl Edge of the Caged Rage podcast, Getting to Foyu, things are pretty tight at the moment. So I would celebrate by re-releasing this episode. It's a fantastic chat.

I always love speaking to Mary, and we really, really get into it. And if you haven't got enough of me talking about all things Sophia Copolo, you can head on over this week to listen to movies, films and flicks with the amazing Mark Hoffmeyer, where we discussed the soundtrack to Sophia Copolo's 2004 film Lost in Translation. Actually, it might be 2003. Maybe I get confused because it was the 2004 Oscars to which it was nominated.

And I talked about that fairly recently. But enough of this wasling. Obviously, we spoiled this film. We have a good old chat about it and all that good stuff.

Go out and watch it if you haven't already. But until then, it's time to hire yourself some twin strippers, get blackout drunk, break your arm, try and spend time with your daughter as we make some Copolo connections with somewhere. I really recommend watching this trailer as this clip sells you everything and nothing at the same time. It's time to check into the Chateau-Mamant, as we look at Sophia Copolo's fourth feature film, 2010's, Somewhere Starring Stephen Dorff as a Hollywood bad boy.

I see as the life that many would die for, we seem to see that that might not be everything. It might not be enough. Elsewhere in the Coppola family in 2010, Tally, a Shire starred in Conman, a western Coppola cage in the Raven, to help me navigate this Hollywood story and potentially help me answer the question, who is Johnny Marco? Is Freudian Cinephile lecturer and host of one of my personal favorite podcasts, Projections, Mary Wilde?

How are you, Mary? Hi, I'm well, how are you doing? Yeah, very, very well. I'm glad I'm glad we get to talk about such a, I don't, a weirdly personal film that...

Yes. The house specific it is, it seems very relatable to a wider audience. I'm not sure if you feel that or touch me. I didn't.

Yeah, I mean, it's a film that I feel is also very underrated or flies under the radar of a lot of people who might know other Sophia Copolo films. That's great to have the chance to kind of do a deep dive on it on this occasion. Thanks for inviting me on your podcast. No worries.

Yeah, as I said to you off, off, off, there, there's this kind of thing that I have this theory of like, middle child syndrome within a couple of family. And as it stands at the moment, this is like slap bang in the middle of Sophia Copolo's filmography. It's being that fourth film of seven. So yeah, so perfectly since the release of On The Rock.

Yeah, it's perfectly centered. And it's kind of, it gets treated like that. And I guess it's that thing after the bombast of something like Marie Antoinette and the kind of character study, it was kind of destined to be likened very much to lost in translation and kind of, I guess, Sophia Copolo would have had that feeling of she's always going to be judged by that Oscar winner. But you did a talk all about Sophia Copolo's films titled, The Cinema of Loneliness.

Could you tell us a little bit about the course and how you group those films together so you kind of group them in pairs? Yes, I did. So what I did was I delivered the course for the Ford Museum. So it's kind of like a psychological investigation of her films.

And I saw this pattern in her filmography. Obviously, I just looked at the six, you know, the six films I hadn't seen the latest release yet. And I noticed that the thing that seemed to bind them all together was, I guess, an approximation, like a cinematic approximation of being a bit isolated or alone, or how I like to describe it going through the phase of so-called liminality. It's like a liminal stage where things feel really ambiguous or ambivalent.

Like, we're not quite sure where we are located either physically or existentially. And it's a very disorienting time of life that occurs actually in the middle stage of a ride of passage. So you're onto something there with the kind of like the middle sort of theme. But in the liminal stage, people stand really at the threshold between their previous way of life and the way that that would historically structure their identity, that they're also kind of about to emerge into a new way of being.

So it's kind of like this strange, I guess, ride of passage. I feel like in her films, we see that a lot, like the ride of passage theme. So that's really how I grouped the films for the Ford Museum. I was really interested in the sense of loneliness that that brings about and how that's then represented cinematically.

So the way that I ended up grouping the films was I did a session on suspension. So that was looking at loss and translation, sorry, virgin suicides and loss and translation. And then I was looking at decadence. So like the kind of representation of excessive pleasures and materialism.

So obviously, Marie Antoine and the bling ring. And then finally, I finished off with the theme of withdrawal, like feeling emotionally withdrawn or physically withdrawn isolated. So that's where I looked at somewhere under the guiled. Yeah, in this stage of, I feel a couple of screws, this kind of like almost like tonal trilogy of exploring fame.

And I guess it's something that Sophia Coppola would have had to have dealt with her entire life. And there's this almost like thing that she has been like, whatever she wanted to or not, was kind of thrust into fame. I know there's a lot of like stuff about the Godfather part three in it. You kind of get that sense that, whether she wanted to or not, she was going to be in that film and I know it kind of like listening to interviews with her, she kind of said like 20 years later, like, like on the press run for this was like, I'm kind of fed up with people asking me about that.

And I think that this is a very like interesting film to talk about. It feels weird, weirdly personal to Sophia Coppola kind of, you can imagine certain situations, especially the fact that kind of one of the pivotal moments in this film, they take a trick to Italy, which I know you mentioned that is from her own life. She went to like a film festival in Italy as a child and they, the couple of children were kind of carted around for the film locations, like this amazing footage of them in like on the set of Apocalypse Now and stuff like that. And it's kind of like, if the family, if dad's making a film that the whole entire family is going, but that kind of thing of like the couple of family, when did you first become aware of them as this kind of, I kind of been describing this almost like this, this entity and this almost like a crime family, basically, of cinema.

When did you first become aware of them? I guess I first became aware, first of all, of Francis' work, Coppola, when I discovered the Godfather and then I started like back in the days, like I was in high school then. And a lot of my knowledge about cinema was through like film magazine, like industry magazines, and then I would sometimes read features about the Coppola family in Vanity Fair or Hollywood Reporter especially. And there was always information about what all of them were up to at that time, like in the 90s.

Yeah, and then the very first Sophia Coppola film I ever saw was the Virgin Suicide, so I'm Montreal cinema where I'm from. When it first released in 1999, I was 20 years old then. And at that time, just seriously getting into art cinema. And I was also working at a video rental store part time while I was at university.

So that was perfect for me because I, in discovering her film and kind of her sensibility for art cinema, it made me more open to kind of finding more about her family and like her background. And I was just obsessed as well at the time with the air soundtrack for the Virgin Suicide. Well, those are her soundtracks and this film especially is a very interesting one for sound tracks. Well, yeah, she seems to have a thing for using French artists, whether it's air or obviously Phoenix.

I'm not sure how far we can go to say that they really do a soundtrack for this film because it seems to be two songs off of their album, Amadeus. Yeah, Amadeus, yes, the bait hoeven. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The name of that album reference is of course Wolfgang Amadeus Phoenix released in 2009, a year before this film with such singles as Listenomania 1901 and the two tracks mentioned are Love Like a Sunset, Part One and Part Two, open and close out this film.

Yeah, and obviously at this point would have been Sophia Coppola's husband Thomas Miles, the lead singer. So what is your relationship with this film? And yeah, why is it you wanted to talk about it on this episode? About somewhere.

Well, this is a funny thing really because I first saw somewhere here in London where I live now. I saw it when it first released in 2010 at the Curz and Soho. I was actually on a date. I saw it with, I was thinking it was like a second date or something or something with someone that at the time I was seeing that relationship didn't last.

I ended up meeting my husband two years later and you know, that wasn't a very, it wasn't a very long relationship. But what was interesting was that it was our second date and we were sort of in that phase we were just getting to know each other. So I said to him, oh, I really want to see this new Sophia Coppola film. I really love her films.

And he wasn't like a film person at all. So it was probably not the best choice for a date movie because it is a bit challenging like it's not a typical date movie or at least not with someone that you don't know very well. So I think throughout the screening I was more worried about him not enjoying the movie than I wasn't really into it. So I didn't enjoy it upon first release.

I think I was just too awkward. But I have since obviously re-watched it because I did some research on it and I obviously lectured on it. And I really do enjoy it upon multiple watches. I always find something new in it.

And I feel like it's very nuanced and very, as you say, very personal, you know, inspired by her childhood experiences with her dad and a lot of memories she had of living in hotels, partially, you know, inspired the choice of the setting of this film in Chateau-Machman. I'm also just very interested in that location, like the Chateau in Los Angeles. It's just like an incredible building. It was built in 1929 and was modeled after the Chateau-Dombois, which was a royal retreat in France's Luar region.

And the Luar Valley, in fact. And what I find fascinating about the Chateau-Machman is that it's kind of both a long and short-term residence for celebrities. And it's been described as historically being populated by people either on their way up or their way down. So it's like either if you see someone there, it's either launching their career or they're spiraling into oblivion, you know?

So that's an interesting space. It seems to evoke a lot of significance and be loaded with a lot of meaning in Hollywood. Yeah, in kind of like some tragic things have happened in those. It's bungalow three with John Bellucci.

And there's a father John Misty song all about the Chateau-Mach. It's kind of like it has this mythic quality about it. To go back to your point of this being like, or watching this film on a date, it kind of feels like it could be very much like a litmus test to your relationship. Kind of like how you react to Johnny Marco's kind of way of life and kind of like by the end of it, if you're kind of like, oh, he's turned his back on a good thing as it were.

Do you know what I mean? This kind of party boy lifestyle. Maybe that's not the guy I should be dating. But yeah, so yeah, kind of like unpackless.

Like one of the one of the one I've watched this for the first time about five days ago. And even like watching it twice and kind of like a short amount of time. And I guess it's the nature of watching a film in an analytical sense as well. You pick up on some really interesting and it's a film that I kind of put the word out to people on Twitter to kind of say like, oh, what do you think about this film?

And it kind of seems to be like the general consensus that either people, this is a like the one Sophia, a couple of film people haven't seen or they will say like yourself, I watched it in the cinema. Didn't really get on with it. And then kind of on on revisiting it. You kind of like you've realized that there's something to it.

Like kind of yeah, when I first watched it, I was a bit like, because I didn't know what to expect. I kind of had this thing of like, I just a bit of like the plodding a bit of like a hangout movie, essentially, because it's kind of like Stephen Dorff just don't really get any dialogue for the first 15 minutes. You kind of get people saying things, but nothing of any, any note is just kind of like, crisp on this. Oh man, like when he falls down the stairs or kind of people saying, hey, Johnny.

And you cut but like, I think on the second thing, in that 15 minutes, you kind of, you get to, you get to really know who he is through this fantastic betrayal by Stephen Dorff. Yeah. What do you make of Stephen Dorff's portrayal of Johnny Marco in this? I thought he was really, really good.

A very authentic performance that on the front, you know, as you describe, I thought was very thoughtful. The performance really hinges on the details, this very subtle performance, because on the surface, it just looks like a guy living a very like luxurious lifestyle and pretty much obtaining whatever he wants on a whim, you know, and so you're thinking, okay, well, who cares? Like, why is that of any material, like, interest or value to anyone? But it's actually the contrast of this luxurious setting that sits kind of really in direct opposition to the emptiness that is day to day existence.

Like he's very rich and successful, but he's sort of trapped in this existential crisis. And we kind of follow him on, it's almost like a kind of follow me around style, like YouTube format of, you know, like that kind of meme of my life and a day kind of thing. And but then the fact that we see him interact, you know, he's having to like kind of care for his 11 year old, 11 year old daughter, who's played by Elle Fanning. And she's kind of in his care at the hotel, and they send time together and her presence sort of helps him in a way kind of accept his adult responsibility, like she sort of grounds him a little bit emotionally.

And I just find that like, I guess what's really thrilling to discover about this film is that it sort of captures a philosophical boredom that the French call on Yui, which is kind of described as the bane of the bourgeoisie, you know, they're so rich and they have everything at their disposal, and they're so privileged. And yet they still feel non-empty, you know. So I just feel like she tells that story really well, because this place, the chateau is a kind of paradise of excess, you know, everything is offered to him. He has all the opportunities in the world.

And yet we see him sometimes talking to his ex on the phone, and he says, I'm nothing. I'm not even a real person. Like he says that towards the end. And it's kind of devastating to have this lack of personhood right at the center of this kind of like oasis of everything you've ever wanted.

You know the scene when he, like when this is my favorite scene, when he attends the special effects department and his face is covered in latex. And then you know, that's one of the moments I really wanted to talk about because Sophie, a couple of mentioned that a lot of screenings when she first showed that, like her friends and stuff like that would laugh at that scene. But I find it like it's terrifying because that slow zoom acts almost like something out of a horror film. It really just shows you how kind of lonely he is.

And it's really interesting because that shot has a real slow zoom and it's kind of mirrored later in the film when him and Cleo are sat by the pool side. You get like a slow zoom out and it's kind of like you kind of get that thing of like a flower closing up, like his world is coming in as he's encased in that plaster. And then as he starts to kind of like, I don't know, he starts to blossom almost through this kind of experience he's had like reconnecting or connecting for the first time with his daughter from what he did. Because you get that like you get really telling moments and just to keep it within the couple of family, there's that first scene you get between him and Cleo at the ice rink.

It perfectly reminds me of Rocky and that kind of first scene you get between Rocky and Adrian when they go on that date and they go to an ice rink and it's using that setting and it tells you everything you need to know about those like the pairs of characters, whether it's Rocky and Adrian or whether it's Johnny and Cleo because you could tell he's been in her life, but he hasn't been present. He's kind of like he's been eyes down his blackberry just kind of going through the motions of being a father without actually like paying a real vested interest. And like she kind of like undercuts it when she kind of says like, he says like, you're really good. Is that how long you've been doing that?

It's like three years. I think that's when you really get that sense that yeah, that he hasn't really like, this is like you said, this is the kind of on the precipice of possibly like a new stage of his life. And then we'll back to that scene with the kind of cast of the visual effects studio. Yeah, what were you going to say about that?

Yeah, I know I'm so interested in what you shared. That's so fascinating. And yeah, I totally agree with you that that shot does feel like it has seems to have horror connotations to it because it is kind of horrific to feel almost like claustrophobia, you know, in this space where you're told every day like the world is your oyster, you have everything at your disposal. And yet he really is sort of lacking in autonomy because he has handlers, you know, they make his decisions about like his day to day meetings and whereabouts.

And he's not kind of completely free to do just anything he wants. Like he is very much chained to a lifestyle. So it feels very claustrophobic like he's encased in this plaster. And as you say, the slow like zooming in a big camera.

I don't know for sure, but I have a feeling that that that scene might have been what sealed the award at the Venice Film Festival because Sophia got the Golden Lion for this for this film for some. Which doesn't come without its kind of controversies because obviously a lot of people are up in arms about that because she had at one point dated Quentin Tarantino. Yeah. It's great that even this film that kind of like dissects the kind of I don't know like the vanity of Hollywood and kind of it has its own little kind of like TMZesque story of like people like gossiping about she only kind of it kind of it almost says something against the kind of Hollywood's treatment on.

Yeah, that that instant like talks about sort of treatment of female directors and stuff like that. It's like, well, watch the film. It clearly does have something to say. And it's why should it be that because she dated Quentin Tarantino.

Yeah. She got the Golden Lion. Sorry to interrupt. No, no, no, no, I absolutely.

Yeah, I'm with you. It is interesting that this is a film about the kind of inner workings of Hollywood and the emotional landscape of Hollywood. And then her win and her also being the first ever like American woman to win the Golden Lion. And she kind of seemed to carry this like mini drama like gossip, gossip magazine drama level of kind of always just because she, you know, I mean, she's had to fight accusations of nepotism her entire life, even when she first emerged on the scene as a director.

I mean, it's interesting because her early interests were not even film at all. Like she was interested in fashion, photography, music and design. But then she read in the 90s, she read, I mean, she had made like a short film initially. And then she read Jeff, Jeffrey, you know, these book version suicides.

And she's really incentivized to pursue film at that stage. And she said that the film medium kind of united all of her other interests together. She was able to kind of engage directly with everything she loved in one medium. So it was kind of everything coalesced in film, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like to the point of, yeah, and I think it's that case as well with that kind of how the Virgin suicides came about in that she kind of like said, I think it was in production, right? And they said like, I've got a script that like really like give me a chance. I know like it's been joked about on this podcast already.

I'm sure I joke about before, but obviously the couple of family is kind of like, like famously known for, even if they changed their names to Cage, like they will still kind of dip their toe back into the nepotism pool at any given chance. But kind of like one of the things I wanted to talk about this, this, you know, with this film is kind of like portrayal of the fragility of like the male ego. And I personally think there's like one shot like, well, one moment that really kind of like says it all and it's like the little box he has to stand on when he has a shoot with Michelle Monahan. And it's like, it's, it's those things we love to see like the every day person, the kind of cinema goa, wouldn't really know that unless you're in the know would know that that happens.

And it's kind of like, it's an amazing like, I don't know, this film manages to tell you so much by like, not really like flag posting anything. It's kind of like, it's just there. And then you kind of like, it's like what's left up to you to pick up what, what that kind of stuff means. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, well, yeah, absolutely well spotted. I laughed so much as well. Like, just because it was, as you say, it was never directly addressed.

It was just there and, and it was also taken for granted by everyone in the scene. So everyone kind of is like, the manufacturers can send from everyone that, you know, he has this, or this character, you know, this persona of Johnny Marco, the film star is almost something that has been imposed on this man, whether he likes it or not. And he has to live up to a certain standard of the male lead in a film. And it's embarrassing because now he has to like become a cliche, but he has no choice.

Like that is the structure of the machine and he has to play into it. He has his role to play inside the film and outside the film and promoting the film. Like he can't be seen as a short, short person, standing next to his female lead, you know, like, and maybe that's also part of his crisis that he's, he finds it like increasingly humiliating to play this part. Well, you get that idea that he's playing, he's just playing this kind of part of being this holy with bad boy, because even like, and other people are controlling his life because yeah, even when like, he's kind of like, you get, yeah, old school friends kind of like paper, crisp on his, he's like, oh, he turns up to his apartment at the shuttle.

And I'm like, you're having a party. And it's like, his apartment's just filled with all these people. And you kind of get like the any kept in a character is like, PA, like, you're doing this, you're doing that. And it's, he's like, like, got these wake up calls to tell him like, you're supposed to be here right now, like, and it's as much as he might want to go out and drive his sports car.

He's really not in the driving seat. And it gets very literal near the end when that sports car breaks down. And I think like, near the time when he realizes, maybe I'm not in the driving seat. Yeah.

In my own life. And yeah, there's, I think that the, well, probably the film's biggest central question is, it's quite nice. So if you're couple of to be quite literal with it when at that press conference, again, that has this kind of weird, like, I don't know, it's, it's with tension to it. Well, I don't know.

I think it's just the idea of like lots of people asking me questions at once. I'm not saying I'm settling. But like one of the, one of the journalists asks who is Johnny Marco. And I think that that's possibly what this film is about, right?

Absolutely. Yeah, exactly. Because he doesn't even know, like, you know, he's pressed to answer that. And he has no kind of like on message, on brand answer anymore.

Like he, it's kind of the paradox of being styled by the studio system, by his handlers, you know, by the whole machine as a bad boy. And ultimately, like he hasn't had the freedom to actually live out that, that reputation and it's fullest sense. And I think one of the best things about this film is that it really balances those quite heavy kind of existential question marks with some quite like absurd, almost comical moments, you know, where things are happening and it's kind of hilarious, especially when he's in Italy, like the scene when the funniest moment for me in this, in this movie is when he's presented an award and an Italian award ceremony. And he's like, he goes up on the stage and the performers, the others, like a singer and dancers.

And it's all so camp and over the top. And it really clashes with his aesthetic of being a bit like, you know, morose or kind of just going through the motions of being a Hollywood star. Just as over the top kind of performance, it seems so weird. And kind of in a way, also feeling a pattern of characters, you know, characters that find themselves in a cloistered existence in Sophia's films, you know, I mean, she probably as a kid went to an award ceremony with her dad probably in Italy where he was presented an award and, you know, Francis work, I went on this stage and there were very camp dancers, you know, like crancing around on stage.

And it just would have been this huge contrast between them and this very serious man. And I have to admit, I laughed quite a lot imagining that scenario of Francis for a couple. By some accounts, like he would have loved it. But I like by some of the things you read about him.

I'm not sure how true they are. If you want to go by Peter Bizkind's Easy Riders Raging Balls, like he was apparently a bit of the dogback in his day. Really? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. There's no that. Yeah, there's the so maybe that that series were getting about the about the making of the Godfather.

The drama won't just be the studio, don't want Marlon Brando. And then that's the kind of like tension of the theories. But that that kind of time in Italy, and it's kind of there is real sense of like liberty because it almost becomes home alone too. Like when they're like they're living like kind of kids would.

And there's there's almost that mirroring of that moment in home alone to where he's watching trash TV. In this case, they're watching friends in Italian and they're they're eating gelato whereas Kevin McCallister would be eating some kind of like ice cream, something like all the trimmings. And it's it's great. Until your point and I think why it makes that scene at the awards ceremony so funny is the scene we get before it with so Johnny has kind of like your shumas like hooked up with an old flame from Italy.

And there's that scene across the kind of breakfast table and kind of like these looks you get between him and Cleo. And I think that that kind of at the awards ceremony, it's like an element of catharsis to it because it's you get that like the joy in Cleo's face as you kind of gets to see her dad like humiliated almost jumping because you can kind of see how awkward he is up on that stage. And it's like, well, you like she's always like she's saying like, well, you put me in these awkward situations all the time. Like you get that impression from, it's a testament to Elle Fanning's acting and the kind of chemistry her and Stephen Dorep have like those looks they kind of give each other, especially kind of like disapproving looks.

And you kind of get the impression that she has she's possibly sat at hundreds of breakfast tables with hundreds of different women like that. And it's kind of like you kind of get that look of like really again, are you putting me through this again? And then like, yeah, it's kind of that cathartic release you get. And it's the look of joy on her face when he's up on that stage.

It's like, it makes it even better because it's kind of, you know, it's almost like the film takes a shift in to kind of be realised. This is subtly like not just Johnny Marco's story. It's also Cleo's story as well. Yeah, exactly.

She's in a bit, you know, in the same way that he's in this liminal stage later in his life, she is also at a liminal stage just by virtue of being kind of a young, you know, like teenager or near teenager, you know, like, she's also going through like a transformative face in her life. Yeah, I was like, it's the thing like, she's like, there's like moments in this, you kind of like, you see Cleo cooking. And it's like, she's 11 years old. So I don't think I could have made macaroni cheese or eggs Benedict.

So like the kind of the standard that she does, like 11. And there's another brilliant mirrored scene where you get this almost mirroring of the kind of breakfast scene in Italy, but it's eggs Benedict and it's the familial situation she kind of has at the Chateau where it's her dad, his mate and her. And like, it's nice to see that juxtaposition between those two scenes, like to me, because it's like, that's where she feels at home with this kind of like goofball, who's, you know, I think like Chris Pontius is, it's great in this. Somebody who's obviously known for, I don't know, prancing around in a phone most of the time and with alligators on Jackass.

So what do you know, what do you kind of make of that? And he's kind of only pops up for a few scenes, but his performance in this one. Yeah, I thought he was there when, was he there when they were playing guitar hero? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because I found that whole scene really interesting, actually, because the song that they were performing was the, it was the police. What was it called? So lonely, or at least that's the chorus. That is the song.

Yeah, that is the song. I find that really interesting. Like, when I heard that song, when I was researching for the Freud Museum, and, you know, I had called my chorus, the cinema loneliness, and that song suddenly came out in the middle of that scene, I thought I thought like a little bit vindicated. So I just like those happy coincidences.

But it's kind of like a, I feel like it does speak to the experience of all of these characters that they're kind of by nature, by virtue of the fact that they're leading the lives that they do, they do end up just spending a lot of time alone. And which is probably why Cleo is as good as she is, you know, preparing meals. Like she's almost like she's had to grow up a little bit faster than the average 11 year old. She's had to assume this kind of like nurturing role, maybe for her mum or probably, or definitely for her like kind of satellite parents who is Johnny Marco.

And so that mirroring of the previous scene with the breakfast at the other hotel in Italy, it's kind of like this, maybe like an unconscious effort on her part to figure in her father's mind, largely as someone that he can turn to. Maybe, you know, it's like a way of communicating that she's there for him, in a, maybe in a parallel way to his impulse of like relying on strange women. You know, she can just, she can fulfill like a familial function for him. That's maybe a little bit more emotionally valuable, maybe more significant or just more enduring.

But also like just a guitar hero and everything and his relationship with this male friend. I think it just, it, to me, it just speaks to this kind of friendship who's that is like very much almost like developmentally stunted, you know, like where people, there's like a failure to launch into real life. So people in this stage are just kind of perpetually stuck at a phase where they haven't fully evolved. Like they haven't gone through maybe normal events, normal life events that would lead them to become just more well-rounded and maybe well adjusted.

So they all, you know, you often will find them just kind of being very juvenile. Yeah, yeah. And you kind of get that like, you almost like get it because he's like telling them like Cleo's stories and he's very much on her level with it. Yeah.

This is kind of blurring off the line. So it's like he's almost like telling her it's like he's still a teenage boy where he's like trying to impress her almost by telling her stories of like alcoholic dance teachers. But like, you mean, like you kind of would if you had like an older cousin and you'd see a barbecue. And let me tell you this.

And yeah, a couple of points on things you mentioned, obviously like the next song that's played on guitar heroes, 20th century boy by T. Rex, which kind of like almost just that title alone gives the impression that like, I don't know, because you get this idea that, like you said, about the Chateau Monty or over there on the way up or the way down that yeah, Johnny Marco is possibly like, he could have been like big shit, like in the 20th century. But now it's kind of with 10 years into the 21st century. And he's kind of he is a 20th century boy.

He's like, you could imagine like, like almost like, I don't know, I guess, I guess, comparison to character you can. And people speculated that like Nick Cage is somebody who Johnny Marco could be based on on this. Wow. And so a couple of said like one of the things that she drew from Nick was his he is always known in the family to own sports cars.

And I believe at one point, I lived at the Chateau and that way, she said she'd always remembered that weird thing that if you if you wanted to properly drive your car, you have to go out to a track. So that's kind of the thing she drew from that. And to the point you mentioned about the kind of familial thing with Cleo, so that great scene that I find portrays their relationship. Is that when they first arrived to Italy and like he's kind of like dragged up in front of like the camera to kind of give that really peppy like TV interview.

And she's kind of like, like, for one of a better way of looking at it. She's almost like looking over her glasses, over her saduku kind of like laughing at him. And he just looked, he looked bewildered and she kind of like, it's that moment you realize, she's got her shit together. Yeah.

He doesn't know what the fuck is going on. Like he is just like, he is lost. And it's he's almost being this film is like in this time he's being brought up by her. It's a weird like role reversal.

Yeah. I've got like a, I don't know, a weirdly like, I guess on the second watch, when he delivers that line about like, my life's going nowhere and I'm nothing. Like, yeah, definitely as a parent, I can like, I can definitely understand that. And it's that thing of like, I don't have all the money, like a Johnny Marco, but like, I could probably feel it like, you know what I mean?

But it's like, and it's kind of gives like, it makes it personal and kind of relatable. And that fact, like, he's, I don't know, you sometimes think like, oh, yeah, if I had more money, like that would make things better and stuff. And it's like, I guess it's that thing that like, he realizes that like, he's just made the mistakes of his daughter. And it's just in that kind of season, that stage of moving into adolescence.

And he hasn't, he hasn't really been there like for her. And it's kind of like, there's like kind of stages, like developmental stages, like in the one kind of parent in book I read about that thing of like children, like kind of, as they get to teenage years, they don't really need their parents anymore. It's something of like, you kind of find yourself, I found it, I'm not sure about yourself, but like, when you get to like being a teenage issue, you look for like role models outside of your family. I mean, it's like, yeah, the classic thing that when you're a teenager, it's like, all of a sudden you've like, idolize these people, like, do you mean, it's kind of been their way?

And then you realize, like, they don't fucking know shit. And I think like, that's, that's what Johnny Marco's realizing. I think that's kind of what he means by that. Like, is it a, or a little too late?

And like the fact that even when he's kind of learned, learned his lesson as it were, like, he can't tell her how he really feels. It has to be like, kind of shouted over the sounds of a helicopter. And it's like, what is more kind of, I don't know, a look at like the celebrity getting in the way of human connection in that fact that like, he's just taking her to the place. He's just taking her to Vegas.

He's taking her to camp, but they have to get a helicopter. And it's like, whereas like, it could have been like a nice moment. And it's like, well, that, that life is getting in the way. And it's like, she's already opened up to him saying like, you're gone all the time.

Wow. And, and, and, and obviously like he, yeah, even even even knowing that he can't say to her, like, I think the line, the line he delivers is, sorry, I haven't been around. Yeah. He can't even, he can't even say that to me.

I don't know, even in the latest stages of this, like, still looking for, I don't like distractions. Do you know what I mean? Like, he had that, he had that perfect opportunity, like, in that kind of interim between you get the moments like, you obviously like, I don't know, but it's. Yeah, you get that beautiful scene around the pool and like, I think that's like, anything filmmaking and it's really interesting with this film.

I'm not sure if you picked up any, but the soundtrack is like 90% all like, digetic music, like nothing is score or played over the top. Bar kind of three songs. It's the two Phoenix tracks and kind of bookend the film. And then that like, Julian Casablanca's like, strokes demo you get in that scene around the pool, like, yeah, do you think that kind of that only using digetic music?

Do you think so for a couple of trying to tell us not to try and say something with that? I do. I think that it, you know, that sound design and that decision to include predominantly digetic music is a constant reminder that, you know, the lifestyle that he leads drives him. And it's, you know, there is no kind of, for him, there's no real estate.

Like, he's kind of, it's kind of what you said about his relationship with his daughter. And I think his, his fame and celebrity status is almost like a driving a wedge between them. But I would, I would go as far as to say that it's driving a wedge between, you know, his ideal self and his real authentic self. And, you know, he is completely cut off from social interactions.

He's sort of hiding out in plain sight. He's had to, you know, that's the kind of survival mechanism of his job is like an occupational hazard. And so used to that coping mechanism of almost being an avoidance type that when he is trying to locate himself, like the question who's Johnny Marco, it's like, the silence is deafening, like he has no answer to that. It's, I feel like she is, you know, Sophia, she's kind of returning to a lot of the themes that were dealt with in loss and translation, you know, celebrity and the little quirks that happen in foreign countries, you know, with like miscommunication, people speaking a language and you're like, they're creating a reality that you're not really a part of.

And I think that ultimately here in somewhere, the miscommunication is based on the foreign language of celebrity, and he's, you know, he is, he's cut off from that discourse ultimately because he's not really invested in it anymore. He's sort of playing along, but you can almost see a lot of the things that he's doing is on almost autopilot, but he's just going through the motions. He's, he knows what he has to do. He knows, he knows his marks, knows where to send, you know, and everyone is always kind of catering to him.

But ultimately, it, he's just growing more and more detached from his family, but also himself. Yeah, like the scenes at the pool were great because it just sort of like, it almost looks a bit like an outdoor prison to me. Yeah, well, like the shadow itself as well, like, that's so fascinating is it's not as, it's not as like luxurious. I mean, it's like, you kind of, I don't know if you, if you've never, yeah, if people listening have never like kind of seen photos of it, kind of, I don't know, it's an oddity, right?

It's like, yeah, it is like the Cecil Hotel for celebrities, basically criminals. Like, it's kind of like that's in the zeitgeist people, people get that. It's kind of, yeah, that's, it's, it's, it's just very, I don't know. Yeah, it does.

The pool as well, it's like, it's a wrinkling little thing. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it almost looks like, you know, because he's ultimately, he's really just there because he's had a minor injury and he's trying to recover. And, but it just, the whole thing just feels like a, like a prison sentence.

Like he's, and then the time he sends up the pool is just, okay, we'll let you out to get some some, you know, like your daily dose of vitamin D, have a little splash and frolic in the pool and then you're on the clock again. You know, it just, it seems very like regulated and monitored and, you know, it's, yeah, I suppose, I think the soundtrack aids in a bet stat, you know, like it's just, it's a constant. A little reminder there in the cinematic experience that we're, you know, this is like a very, like very highly managed lifestyle. And we're kind of immersed in that.

It's, it's very like, it's really interesting that choice of song as well because obviously it's a, it's what's like a demo version of a stroke song. And it's like, yeah, the fact that it is the kind of one like non-digetic track in the soundtrack really is that thing of like, it's like, you get like lost with the character and it's like this is him experience like whole life, like that kind of like time with Cleo around the pool. And yeah, that's when that kind of shot comes when it's those two on the sun lounges and it kind of pulls out mirroring that shot. We got earlier with the kind of slow zoom in.

Like I said, there it's that thing of like, this is like you get a glimpse of like this is what life could be. And it's not about the glitz and the glamour and the kind of like, I don't know, women thrown themselves at you. It's not about like empty human like connection. It's about real human connection.

Like that is what like he longs for. And you kind of like, you get that impression that like, yeah, like they're kind of empty human like contact is had when it's like, you get that scene where he's like about falling around with someone and he falls asleep or kind of like the two pole dancers he has come around to his apartment. Like, even look bored by that. And I think that says so much to the thing of like celebrity, even like, like you mentioned the whole like the boredom of the bourgeois and it's like that thing of like, I don't know, I can have, I can have everything.

But even that's like, Oh, it's also like just the fact that there's identical twins is not just one woman with a certain aesthetic. It's her exact replica, like her DNA, you know, sort of double her doppelganger is there as well, just kind of doubling down on the excess and greed of this very materialistic world. That demands excess, you know, those like this very uncanny effect. They look exactly the same, they're wearing the same outfit, doing the same moves.

And it's almost very, it's almost like a like a cheerleaders rehearsal, like it doesn't feel erotic. It just seems like it's just very sort of formulaic dancing. And it's I find it's so funny because it is so awkward. Like he's bored.

They're just performing. They're just doing their job and then they're off. And then they're off. And it's, but it has to, you know, the whole, you know, the subtext is that it was intended to be erotic because of the kind of like porn aesthetics of twins.

And yet it just, you know, it doesn't, it's not effective. And it's very uncanny. I think that's a couple of perfectly manages to undercut it as well. And the kind of like, I don't know, the way she kind of presents like nudity and things that kind of could be like, ogled upon like that kind of like moment after they finish their dance to to Foo Fighters hero as well.

It's a very like, it feels like that's his choice. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's like, could you kind of get that thing? He's wearing like, I don't know, black flag.

He's got like a sub pop t-shirts. And even though that doesn't seem cool enough for him, it's kind of like they've, they've assumed that's what he would be into. Right. But then like that kind of like, it's undercut with, you just get that shot of them packing away their poles.

And it's like, it really like shows you like how like, how lonely he is as well at the same time. Like that thing of like, I don't know, like, yeah, and it's, it undercuts that whole thing. Of decadence and excessive like, yeah, but there's these real real life practical elements to it as well. It's like, if you want that kind of like service, yeah, service, then like, yeah, there's going to be that kind of awkward five minutes where like somebody's doing me like unscrewing apart.

And it's a nice little cab bag. And like, yeah, this is so, so interesting. Like, how, how, as we've mentioned throughout how in those kind of small details, you kind of learn so much about him and his psyche and just like, even in the kind of like, like final scenes of this one, Cleo's left, she's gone to camp and he's there stacking up all of his kind of room service trays and you get that impression that like, he's slowly like, I don't know, is he learning or like, he's definitely slipped back into, you know, in that that he's probably he's lost without her and he slipped back into his old ways. I think that's it.

I think it's, he's sort of fallen prey to old habits, but at the same time, he has this kind of, there's this new dimension of awareness that he didn't have before that become that really weighs on him and is forcing him to like reassess certain things, whereas before he was kind of like, in a way he was just, I don't know, he was a bit more ignorant. He was sort of just like going through, you know, his daily life, maybe not so burdened by that awareness, but then when he spends time with his daughter and upon her departure, like suddenly he has, you know, this glimpse of something that he can't quite switch off at the ready, you know, he can't quit so readily. And what's interesting about Stephen Dorff is that like, I think it's really good casting because he's, he has been a bit of that kind of like hard throb from the 90s that was seen a little bit as a bad boy and maybe you already knew this but you know, through the end of the day, but you know, through this relationship, like this working relationship with Stephen Dorff, he actually introduced Sophia to Paris Hilton. Amazing.

Yeah. There's some great things around, obviously like $7 million budget, which is kind of like next to nothing really in Hollywood terms, the things around it like Stephen Dorff lip off. I think he decided to live at the Chateau moment, whilst making it and he would take Elphane, like he'd pick her up from school and like hang out there and even the actress, he plays his ex part. Like Cleo's mum, like they would go out, they would, they would go out for dinner and stuff like that.

So they could be this like shared history, like, for the characters. Yeah, sorry, as you were saying about Paris Hilton. Well, yeah, I mean, it's, what's the thing is it because I think that he even Dorff was quite like a figure in the kind of, and the Hollywood club scene. That's how he met Paris Hilton and they genuinely became friends and what, and then Sophia met Paris through Stephen and she told her, you know, Paris Hilton told Sophia about her house being burgled, because it had been not long enough.

Because it had been not long ago that it happened at the time. And that's when Sophia became interested in this gang of burglars in Hollywood, this so-called bling ring. And because she became friends with Paris, she genuinely became friends with Paris through Stephen, Paris just said, if you want to use my house as a location for shooting, you're welcome to, like you can shoot in my closet, you can shoot in the actual places where the robberies took place. So I think it's really cool that Sophia just didn't have, like, snotberry about her.

I don't know how too many other art film directors that would have become pals with Paris Hilton. They probably would have just judged her as like a Hollywood bimbo, you know? Yeah, I really like the idea as well that like, she snuck to her guns with like, even casting Stephen Dorff. I know that she wrote the script within her mind and 2010, like, no offence to Stephen Dorff, he's not really like a kind of banner name.

And it's like, long gone are the days of like, him playing the bad guy in Blade, like, like, peak, peak 1998, sexy Stephen Dorff. Yeah. Yeah, I know recently he's kind of got a slight renaissance with True Detective, but like, you could imagine, I don't know, could you imagine anyone else playing that role, Johnny Markham kind of like bringing that, like, because as you said, he perfectly brings that like real life kind of, I don't know, like, it's not stunt casting But like, he's got a lived experience of kind of being that Johnny Markham type. Yeah, I'd be hard pressed to find someone would have worked as well as he did.

Like, I feel like it was perfect casting. I think somebody like Johnny Depp wouldn't have worked because he was just still too famous, especially at the time with, you know, Paris Caribbean, he was becoming more mainstream. Yeah, it's interesting. I think it really is.

I mean, I'm trying to think of like, Stephen Dorff's contemporaries. Yeah, like, he's kind of a weird one, right? Yeah. It's like, I'm trying to think of his age.

So he would have, like, he would have been a, like, he, like, I don't know, like, I would, I know he's too young to be like in the kind of map dealing, like, world and stuff. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of that like, I don't know, almost like, forgotten generation of actors. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Stephen Dorff's like, perfect.

And it's that thing of, no, no, what do you make of the, like, the ending of this? I guess, like, some people could look at it, though. It's kind of got that kind of like, the grandstanding, like, that's it. Like, I'm making pasta.

I'm checking out. I'm driving my car and I'm going to go walk off into the sunset. How do you read that ending? Do you kind of see?

No, I think it's radical. I think it's so, but I love how, how almost inane and mundane it is and it's radicalism, but it is radical because he's doing all the things that, you know, probably is going to piss off his agent and his publicist and some heads are probably going to roll at the hotel or whatever. But you know what I mean? But in that little world that he occupies at that time, this character's kind of fictitious world that probably has materialized and manifested many a times over in real life Hollywood, just walking off and eating basic food like that.

And, you know, those are kind of quite powerful, really powerful kind of actions. And I liked it. I felt it quite liberating, you know, and I just think that he's, it's kind of something there about him almost like living out to this reputation as being, you know, as a reputation as being for being unpredictable a little bit and having a little bit of a taste of that in real life, but also kind of still bearing the, I guess, the signs of this kind of faded glamour at the same time, because, and this kind of torture beauty that's kind of like the bloom is a little bit off the rose. I like that because let's taste it.

He's not like, if he had just like, trash the hotel room or something and throw in the TV set out the window. I mean, that might have been the the call out ending. But the fact that he did what he did, I think, ultimately, it's, it's nice. It kind of brings the film for a full circle for me.

I think the thing that makes it really like really like makes it for me is, it says again, it's a small moment. It's like just a ry smile that Stephen Dorf gives almost like to camera as the film ends. And it's like that thing of like, I think it's like a wink to the audience. Like, yeah, fuck this.

And it leaves you with, as ambiguous as it is, it leaves you with hope for kind of like, I don't know, like if you feel it like, do you mean like lost or anything like that, that you as a person. Or anything like that. But you as an audience member can can find some kind of way out of it. Like, I don't know.

There's something kind of interesting and comforting about the fact of seeing somebody who is massively wealthy have somewhat of a bad time. Because it's like, it's like, it's like, it's not like their lives are any better. I mean, it's, I don't know, it's everything comes with its own set of problems. It's like, yeah, but the amount on the street, it might be whatever, but for the Johnny Marko, it's something completely different.

Yeah, it's the things that makes sense. The signifiers that have meaning within the kind of discourse that he's in. Yes. Well, Mary, that is somewhere.

Now, did you manage to find any couple of connections with this film? Any kind of spiders went that link off to any other members of the couple of family. Oh, I searched, I searched for this one. I, I got to say, I didn't find anything.

But maybe just a very tangential, maybe as a very tenuous link. I love the tenuous link. Really? Yes.

Okay, you're probably going to be like, no, this is way off base. Like, I just felt that there's something there about him. It kind of reminded me a little bit of the like Jason Schwartzman's character in Marianne Twanette, you know, where he plays Louis XVI. And just kind of this, this pattern of, I guess, lovelessness or lack of eroticism in his life, where he's just going through the motions and he's got all this excess and in a way nothing substantial is really materializing in his relationship.

There's no intimacy. It's just this veneer of, of six, you know, of like decadence. But obviously, you know, Jason Schwartzman is not in this film, but I just felt like there were a few similarities, maybe with that character, but you see that that's not with the real life person. I couldn't find anything.

Tell me what you found. So again, I'll go with a tangential connection to, to the couple of family via Stephen door. Okay. It was in a TV adaptation of the outsiders, which was adapted into a feature film by Francois Cobbler in 1983.

Which I find like, and it's almost like that film is obviously like a coming of age thing coming of age. So would have been like a coming of age for a lot of those actors in 1983, like you would have had a rough match show, you kind of would have had like even down to like Tom Cruise and stuff like that. And then a lot of their like first roles. And then it's kind of like the bat on his past down, even though he's in it, in one episode of the series, I'm still having it that the bat on was passed to Stephen door.

Yeah. That's much better. I like you're as much better. Let's go with that.

And there's, yes, Stephen door is also in glimpse inside the mind of Charles Swan the third, which is directed by Roman Coppola and he's a world trade center with Nicholas K. She turns up as like a paramedic at the end of that film. Again, let's go real real real. I don't know this one's this one's a bit of a reach.

Obviously, Chris Pontius was a member of Jack us spike Jones. And I think that's a couple of ex husband. Yeah, was also a member of that cast and like a producer on Jack us movie. Wow, used to used to get an old people makeup and kind of get his prosthetic balls out all over the place in those movies.

I like to think as well that that's like that's how she knows him. And it's that thing that you said about Paris Hilton, like, yeah, it's like Chris Pontius like it's bold casting in a way because a lot of people would see him as like justice joke really and to kind of like, even though his character serves as a kind of comic relief in this film. Like it is still an art movie, do you know what I mean? And it's like he's not there to be like, I don't know, like a clown and like honking his nose and kind of like marching about.

He does have some, I don't know, the film has heft in it and it's I guess that could be yeah like cynical studio people could see someone like him as a risk being like, he's known for being a movie where people stick to cars up there are still I mean it's like, yeah. And she's probably like, well, I actually actually know him because my husband or ever are being in that LAC would have. Yeah, and this this felt, and one last thing I wanted to mention about someone, I'm not sure if you need this. I think it really knowing this kind of like going into a second time.

It really, I do. I thought is a really good way to look at the film. So a couple of said she was living in Paris at the time when she wrote this. And when I had that like outsiders look and found like that thing like LA is fascinating and kind of said like in the 70s, they had like a lot of like LA films about LA, whether it's shampoo and then in the 80s, you've got like American Jiggle though, and she said like what does what does an LA movie look like now and kind of wanted to almost like get the audience to forget about the camera but the film to almost be like what happens in one of those like reality TV shows once the camera's leave.

It's like somewhere is a is that but like I don't know it's like like yeah looking through that kind of lens it really it I think it's really fascinating kind of like I don't know like the people people who kind of are listening to this and haven't like I've maybe written this one off or haven't given it a chance. Obviously we've spoiled the film for you but it's like what we said as made a sense I think like kind of looking at it from that kind of perspective. Yeah, like my I don't know it might help people to kind of get into it a bit more. I agree.

Yeah, definitely. I think this is essential listening for people engaging with the film because yeah just because only because I feel like it doesn't get talked about enough and it sort of seems to fly under the radar so and it deserves a little bit of like dedicated attention and analysis. So Mary, let's move on to a totally arbitrary scoring system I have for the film. Okay.

What would be a perfect wine pairing for somewhere. Okay, I gave this a little bit of thought I thought it had to be a California wine and I ended up choosing the screening eagle kebernay sovignon, which is produced near the area of Napa Valley California and due to the small quantities produced and the high prices commanded for this I just think that you know the cult of Hollywood is you know it's very powerful and you know LA seems to really be a place that attracts a lot of cults as well. And sometimes it does seem like John Marco is a little bit in a cult like trying to escape. And this wine is just like it's a very decadent and very luxurious wine it's dark and bold and structured it's a red of course and it's just sort of lots of different flavor layers to it current casters blackberries and black cherry.

That is a fantastic wine pairing for this film. I'm going to go very flippant and say that a bottle of sparkling Sophia would go perfectly with it because it actually features in the film there is product placement by so far. Yes it is. Own wine in the film and I love that it's kind of like I'm making an art movie but where we can let's get a bit of that product.

This film's interesting as well because almost like a baton. How this film is about fathers and daughters. There's like this weird like link background to her and her dad in that like, through the casting of Elle Fanning you get that thing like the baton has been passed as Sophia that she's now leading the way in cinema in the next year like. Yeah, Francis Ford couple of made Twixt.

Yeah, with Elle Fanning and it's kind of like where I guess she would have been a lot of Hollywood would have been looking up to what he was doing at this point. He was going, you found, you got that great actor in your film, I'm going to have to use them. Yeah. Back to the wine.

As you said, how much would you be willing to pay for this bottle of wine? AKA, is it a good film or is it a bad film? Oh, well, this bottle is the height of luxury and it goes for 2,859 pounds per bottle. Well.

So you can, that should be a vote of confidence for this film. I am willing to pay. I love this movie and I just think it's my personal favorite from her. So I love it and I would recommend it.

Perfect. Yeah. Thank you so much for picking this one, Mary. It's great to like visit all of these films.

I've seen this one, I haven't. I feel like it's really set the kind of bar when talking about something as a couple of films. Yeah. Yeah.

And to speak, yeah, the fact that you've come on, like, even just through talking to you, through stuff you said, I've gone, yeah, shit. There is that in there and like, I think things are awakening me. It's definitely a film that like, I will definitely be revisiting, maybe not for a year or so, just because I watch it twice in a week. I feel like, I don't know, like, let's make the room for something else.

Yeah. When talking about the couple of family, again, here's a really stupid question. If you have to remove all other member of the family filmography, but you only get to keep one member, who would you keep, Mary? Well, it probably shouldn't go as a huge surprise that I would keep Sophia Kavala, just because I do, you know, I have researched her quite a few years ago.

I have researched her quite deeply and watched her films many times and I have a very strong connection to them. I like that they're kind of unapologetically girly at times. I know she's received some criticism about that. Some people are being frivolous or just that her films are decorative and I just feel like that's extremely unfair.

And, you know, she doesn't feel the need to dilute her interest in femininity to kind of like appear serious. And I just, I don't know, I just feel like they speak to me and I feel, I'm almost, I'm always interested to see her. I'm always interested to see what else she's going to do. And I think, you know, just in general, I feel like my aesthetic connects much more with her vision than other members of her family.

Have you seen on the rocks at all? Yeah, I still have not. I'm, have you seen it? No, I was just going to ask you like where you would kind of, how you would group that one.

Because it seems again, another interesting one that like how, seems to be like every other film she kind of, or like she kind of keeps like backtracking slightly to whatever other, some certain themes. And obviously that's enough of a film about a father-daughter relationship, but seems to be like where as somewhere is a film that looks at like her childhood and kind of like, I guess at the time of this film coming out, or writing this film, so it would have become apparent herself. So probably like in trying to, I don't know, that thing of like, when you're presented with a child, you're then like, I should probably like, I should probably figure out or try and sort out some of the shit from my own childhood. Let's write this film.

And then it's like, yeah, from what I know of on the rocks is this thing of an adult relationship between a father and daughter. And it's like, again, I guess, and I know that she said it's probably like the one film that comes like the closest to her actual life. Like she, she, the, the Bill Murray character is kind of very much like the elements of front-sport copler and his friends in that character. So, yeah, no, all I was going to ask you was where would you, where would you bracket it in the kind of like the films that kind of break down you did for the talk you did.

I mean, just like I said, I didn't include that one in my talk because it hadn't been released yet at the time that I delivered the event. But having read a little bit about this movie and seen the trailer, I instinctually I would probably group it together with, I guess, Lost in Translation, but only because of the Bill Murray connection, but I don't know yet whether maybe that's just a red herring kind of thing. Yes. Yeah.

Well, the most important question on this podcast is, is, is our, our, the couple of family, the greatest film family of all time. Okay. Well, I mean, I'm going to, I'm going to have to say no in my opinion. I don't know if that's like blasting me on this podcast.

I'm sorry. No, it's fine. This is. And they're not only, maybe only because I haven't followed their story and history as closely as I maybe I have some other film families.

My favorite film families are the Phoenix's. So, working in river and the intergenerational screen sirens, T.P. Hedger and Melanie Griffith and Dakota, the code of the code of Johnson. Amazing, amazing choices.

There's some, again, it's a very arbitrary question. And I guess by the end of it, well, I probably won't realize or find out anything. It's just kind of a. It's interesting.

Yeah, it's interesting to find out. And it feels like in regards to like cinema itself. Yes. It seems like a, a dumb question to ask because it's like, there's so many of the couple of who have done stuff in film.

It's like, as you said, like that, like three generations, it may be that there's like, like in each generation, one to two people who work in film, whereas I can the couple of family tree is just like even people who like marry in. Yeah. Like Jack Swartzman, like, was like a lawyer or like an agent before he married like, Talia, and then, and then started producing films. So it's like kind of like, I don't know, some kind of like, they're taken to Carmine at the time when he would have been alive or now they're taken to Francis and it's like you're in the family.

He gives the kiss on the hand and say, yeah, yeah. Even if you look at Spike Jones, like, like, he's kind of like, I could imagine something similar to that opening scene of the wedding at the coffee bar of like, you're now in the family. He's being John McAditch. Like, like, you've made just skate videos.

You've made some music videos, like have a feature on us. Right. This hipster coming into the family, like, yeah, oh my goodness. No, I love questions like that.

I'm honestly, like this is my kind of question. If anything, like, I'm going to walk away from this recording today with so much information about the couple that has really intrigued me. And I'm going to, I'm looking forward to the rest of your series, actually, because I feel like I'll really learn about the various members and their roles. And it's, I guess I just really take it for granted.

How many of them there are and how active they've been in the film industry. So it's fascinating. I recently like just, you know, designed like a family tree, just like a visual representation to, to listeners of like who I'll be covering and like, who I won't be covering in the family. As I was doing it, I was going like, that's just, and that's a bit of compiling this series.

There's just so many people. Yeah. Even when you get to like the Swartzmans, like, they're in biotechnicality, but John Swartzman is so, yeah, Jack Swartzman, something in his first marriage. It's like a DOP and has done everything from like Pearl Harbor Armageddon, the rock.

So all the Michael Bay staff and his Jurassic Park, like the Jurassic World and 50 Shades Dark and 50 Shades Beeper as well. Like, you know, like, there's just these, the, the tentacles and the spiders web really, really is, I keep saying it on the podcast by the end of this. I'm essentially going to look like Charlie from that episode of Yeah, it's always sunny, like with, with the string and the, the core core. Yeah, the core core core again.

So, so this person is linked to this person in that way, like, so yeah, like craziness and to take away one thing, if you don't know the story of our Nicholas Cage and Patricia R. Kett got together. But for you, Mary and people listening at home, please do Google that because there's an amazing like late night talk show appearance from Patricia R. Kett where she tells that story and it is, it is absolutely baffling and wonderful all at the same time.

Well, before I let you go, Mary, I must ask you possibly the most important question. The real, the real answer I'm trying to get through this podcast. What the how does Bill Murray say to Scott your hands and at the end of life in translation. Okay, I'm, I firmly believe that he says, and I quote, enjoy yourself.

It's later than you think. How did, how did, how did you, how did you come to that conclusion? Because I just find that that's like a very funny line to me. And just because a lot of the times that they spent in that movie was like, they seem very angst rhythm and he probably spent, he probably feels like he's wasted too many hours being And he now he's, he has a chance to pass on a little bit of like practical advice to this young person.

And I think that's the secret of the universe, you know, like that is, you know, where we've wasted too much time already. Let's just have some fun. Perfect. Yeah, that's, that's an amazing answer.

I can't wait to, I can't wait to compile all of these some, some have been serious, some have been very, very silly. Yeah, I can't wait to kind of maybe get to the answer of what you just say. Thank you so much for coming on and yeah, making some joining some dots and making some couple of connections with me. Pleasure.

Thank you for inviting me. It's been a real blast being here. Really enjoy talking to you. So before I let you go, where can people keep up to date with everything you're doing, whether it's your courses, your projections podcast or anything else.

The best way to find me is to follow me on social media. I'm at Syxar, PSYC, S-T-A-R on Twitter and Instagram. And I tend to post about my upcoming events that my courses and everything on Twitter. Instagram is just a bit of fun really, lots of memes.

And yeah, I, of course, I co-host the production podcast with with Sarah Cleaver and we're going to be covering an equiscation film in our next, in our sixth series actually, which is coming up on the double and we're going to be talking about face off. Amazing. Amazing. Well, as I said in the intro, like, genuinely projections is one of my favorite podcast to listen to.

And I think it's your episode on Fight Club. Yeah. Left me like picking my jaw up. I think it was especially your, your kind of like reading of the film and that kind of idea.

Well, I won't spoil it for people listening. Yeah. Do you be sure to listen to that episode and all the episodes of Periodic Services. Thank you so much.

No worries. And yeah, I think one of the only times I've left the house to go anywhere and to go to Hobbycraft to pick up some yarn. And I listened to your army hammer episode. And it's probably like the most surreal, one of the most surreal moments in what can be a very surreal era in people's lives.

But again, it's fantastic stuff. Thank you. Mary, thank you so much. There we have it guys.

My chat with the always fantastic Mary Wild. I always have such a joy talking to Mary. Such an insight and such an amazing voice. If anyone has a voice for podcasting, not that not not in the disparaging a face for radio kind of way.

Yeah, Mary is a lovely lady. That pause was me just trying to dart around the fact that I nearly insulted a previous guest, which is not my intention at all. And just not make it worse myself in the process of doing so. I hope you enjoyed revisiting that episode.

I was a lot more fresh behind the girls. The audio quality might not be as good as it is these days, but that's the way things shake down sometimes. I hope you got something out of it. If it's your first time visiting the podcast because this is back in the feeds and back doing the rounds on social media, please do take your time to listen to stuff in the back catalog.

There's plenty of great stuff in there. Let's just talk about some of the appropriate stuff in there. In the back catalog, I think I only got one other Sophia Coppola film off the top of my head, which is Virgin Suicide's, which is not that far back in the feed. So just scroll back maybe five or six episodes and you'll be able to hear my conversation with the one and only James King all about that film.

Again, another fantastic story. And James has the pleasure of interviewing Sophia many times. So it's got some great stories about that as well. Yeah, check out that.

And there'll be plenty of Sophia to come. Happy belated birthday to Sophia. We are all looking forward to the present. So upon us, hopefully later this year, maybe early next year with Priscilla.

It's always a joy when there's a new Sophia Coppola film on the horizon and we look forward to the room much. As for next week on the podcast, I'll be diving back into the archives for another re-release just because as I mentioned in the intro, things are pretty heavy with recording getting to follow you, which if you're not already follow us on Twitter and Instagram, which is the FOU pod on both of those to be there for when that pod starts, which you'll hear about. On this feed, on that feed, all over the place, wherever me and Daryl are, as we release a trailer and let you know the date that that journey commences. Don't worry.

I don't talk about another podcast. This podcast isn't going anywhere. I will still be giving you plenty of Coppola connections goodness until this goddamn journey is done. And then maybe move on to something else.