Welcome to the Mariners Church Life Group Leader podcast. This weekly conversation is designed to equip and resource youth to build a healthy life group community that studies God's word, practices spiritual rhythms, and changes the world together. Alright welcome to my group leaders this is before a song of Solomon wisdom for your love life. I love that you're checking in here with us every week to get some tricks and tips as you lead out these important discussions in your life group and we are joined this afternoon by Kim Hamilton.
Kim what's happening? Hey how are you? It's great to be with you today. Kim and the staff member formerly known as our Life Group Director as soon as formerly the known as our group's pastor.
Yeah. So excited. I mean Kim you have been such just an influence on not only on our team but on the volunteers that you lead and that you pour into and so it's been a fun journey with you to see others and acknowledge what we've already known to be true of you. Since you arrived here at Mariners you're calling towards pastoral ministry.
It's not an office right but it's an outworking of your gifting and you are and so I'm excited to have you operate in that capacity. Tell us about what you're excited about what you see God doing across group ministry and what you're looking forward to. Thank you so much, DTM. I'm so excited to be able to be more involved in groups overall.
You might have to scoot up a little bit actually on that microphone. Okay. There we go. I'm excited to hear more about what groups are doing and the people in them and be able to help train some of the coaches and get encouragement, structure going really strongly just feel supported and our groups are just thriving.
I can't wait to jump in. Yeah, that's it. That's awesome. And Kim in a previous world you were a worship pastor.
Right? I know some of the little vibes. I think like former worship pastors make some of those pastors right? So there's a lot of things.
I think so. There's something there's something in there. Yeah. We're so honored to have you in the team.
All right. We're going to jump in. This is going to be great. Kim and I so fun.
You asked me this morning. Hey do you know what the topic is and I had a look at you guys. So we're going to jump in here. That was a straight away into the discussion questions.
But me, I've really has been a rich series as we followed. It's really the progression of this couple that's represented in Solomon from Traction Pursuit, Dating and Deciding or what Eric talked about is intentional dating and now they're moving towards marriage and oneness and honeymoon and all the fun things associated with that. So this weekend there's live teachers across all of our congregations about Jared is teaching our marriage to Irvine. And so while we may not be narrowing in on the exact term because we know that many of you are listening for different congregations, we're going to just lead straight through the discussion questions.
This week covers really chapters three, four and five. So we're not going to read right now. Jack was three, four and five. We're going to pull out the insights from the passage of the questions that are here.
So shall we go for it? So good. Oh this first question. What do you see?
Oh my goodness. When was the first time you got the quote unquote the talk growing up? Was it helpful? Was it unhelpful?
Oh man. That question can go all kinds of different. Let me say your group right? I don't know.
If anything that jumps off for you, maybe how you would lead or respond to that question. What do you have for us here? I wouldn't assume that everybody got the lecture of having the talk. That's good.
Yeah. How you came to an understanding? Was it something that brought into you? Like I know my house, the word was never spoken as a kid, but I kind of do your high pastor that he and his wife poured into us.
It's true. But just been talking with us. So did you even have that? Yeah.
That's good. That's a good way to rephrase that. Whether it's not, what did you have? You could ask that question.
It could be, hey, grow it up. Like the topic of sex, like in your family, you're having a taboo thing. How did you guys work for that? And I think too, also what you're acknowledging right off the bat, that in this particular discussion, there could be some hurts and pain pains around it.
And so you might even, this week, acknowledge that as the group leaders say, hey, as you know, this has been the tone of this entire series. This is grace, but we're getting at some topics this week that, you know, I bring up some hurts and pains in the past, but also presently. For sure. And so we want to have this conversation through vulnerability and obviously as we do for a week, I think that's a great thing to bring up right off the bat.
So that's good. Yeah. I love that kind of rephrase. I can't remember.
I think I probably did, you know, the book thing upstairs with my dad and then reinforced it in our school and, you know, I mean, it works, I guess. So there you go. The interesting thing will be, you know, the state of the life group too, because it's our couple of years, and then you have like college groups, 20s, 30s groups where this conversation will take a whole different, just have the space to talk about it and how your life has been impacted or you carry pains from that, which maybe this is the time. So I'm just going to let those go.
Yeah. That's good. And it's how God created it to be. That's great.
Very good. All right. Let me look down at the passage. Again, we're not going to read it all and you're probably not going to read it all in your, in your group, but you might be able to pull out a few different things from it, call back from the servant that you heard.
But the question is how is sex portrayed in the passage? What do you learn about God's design for sex? So what we, what stands out to you, I mean, it's in the passage that is in our servant guides, but also just knowing what we know about God's design for sex, which is consistent throughout scripture. It sure is, right?
And even thinking back to the message last week when Eric was talking about God's heart, or what he wants for us, why he created it. It's so beautiful. And it's all encompassing. The words I wrote down, it's all encompassing and involves our emotions, our sight, our senses, like, oh, my God can do that to create something that is every part of our being that he created from nothing.
Yeah. That's great. Yeah. It's just something that he calls good and gives us for our enjoyment, not just for reproduction, that's that part of it.
And so I think that there's so much in that passage that you can kick around with your grip. It hasn't fun, but some of the things that you read, some of the phrasing in here about North Winds and gardens and all these other things, right? I mean, just acknowledge those things. You know, call those out.
That's obviously top of your passage, too, but it might be surprising for you to think, wow, think, wow, this isn't the Bible. And, you know, that's why in many Jewish rabbinic cultures, right? Like, they weren't allowed to read, saw this all of until 30, 30 something. Like, it was seen as almost that explicit.
And it is that actually we're gonna wait until you're 30 years old to, to be sure you could read read read this book, which is, yeah, which is, which is interesting. But that's it. It's in God's word and all of God's word is, it's got a brief useful for teaching, you know, all of it. And so engage the passage there.
All right, then we go to our lookout, how does the portrayal of sexual intimacy in the passage? And you could also just say throughout the entire description, no different from the portrayals of sexual intimacy and media today in the world and culture at large. There's pretty, if you think obvious, obvious things there, but what would you leave the grip through what stands out to you there? Yeah, there's some great obvious things.
I think what stood out to me as I was reading through this was talking through this with my kids when they were teenagers in the early 20s, just as they were trying to put the pieces together of how they honor God and what all their friends in the world was telling them to do. Like it was opposite and having to figure that out where they were gonna land as an adult human being, what am I gonna decide? Right. It was hard.
It was a big deal. Because it's almost night and day difference. Yeah, in every way possible. Yeah, it's very countercultural.
I think some people might even see the Christian sexual ethic as like repressive and to quite it at best. And Christians are often thought to have had like a really low view of sex, but actually, biblically, we think of it in a totally different way. It's not that we have a low view. We have a really super high view of sex being God's design, given to us.
Something that's so powerful that actually the only confines that can take that power should be a lifelong commitment of marriage. Where I think the culture at large tells us, you know, it's freedom, it's choice, it's exploration, or like why do you care? It's just adult recreational playing between two consenting adults. Like why is this even a thing?
It's just physical matter. It's just an exchange of, it's actually so much more than that. There's so much deeper than that. And so I think we get mischaracterized as Christians having a low view and actually we have a really high view of scripture, the scripture and the sexuality.
I think culture would not have a high view as a Christian after sexuality. Yeah, so I think there's something, something right. It flies in the face of cultural messages and what it's thought to be just a normal to expression of growing up and what it means. And you know, we're on the front end of that, you're raising adult children, right?
And we've got young, well, nine and 15. And so very much in this conversation, especially with our 15 year old, and we're grateful that she's not only hearing these things from us, but she's a part of everything that's happening here at Mariners. And she hears a read forse through group leaders, through teachings on the weekend, because it is culturally counter to the message to the message that we hear. And you have to be brave, I think to step into it.
You have to have people around you to give you that courage to step in to explore and to be willing to lean in and hear from the Lord. Right. What he wants to speak to you. Yeah, it's a follow up look out here.
It says, how might singleness dating or marriage relationships look if we followed God's framework for sex? What my individuals are couples experience if they lived in God's design for sex? I love the question. I think that there could also be just a word of caution with that, right?
Where we think I did it all God's way. So then he owes me x y and z. It's all going to be perfect from here on out. There's never going to be any conflict or tension or anything.
And you know, we both have very not to each other. We've both been ready for a number of years and we would say that's not always a case, right? That's not always a case. That is God's design is certainly better.
Yeah. Certainly. But it's not like, okay, I didn't follow all the rules. So he owes me this perfect experience for every time.
It's not always that way. But his design is there for a reason, right? It sure is. And the difference is night and day of fulfillment.
The union, the attachment is way different when you follow God's plan. Yeah. I think those words sometimes are they don't mean that much when you don't feel that when you're not in that space. But God is such a good God.
He would only want the best for us. Yeah. That's right. Yeah.
Yeah. We sometimes associate like rules as suppressive. They're to harm us or, you know, to give us restraints. But I remember one time I got used an illustration of showing up to it, his son's a soccer match, right?
And the referee didn't show it. And the line judge wasn't there. And so they didn't even draw the lines on the field. And they didn't know what was out of bounds or in bounds.
And they were free to tackle the way that they wanted. There was no yellow card. There was no goal. There was no like goal.
But they had no idea, no direction to the game. And you would think, oh, that's gonna be fun. There's no rules that actually, right? It's absolutely chaotic.
And the rules, quote unquote, the rules are there actually so that we can get the most out of life. I can say therefore our fulfillment. And it's a different experience when God sets these boundaries for us that are not there to hinder us, but to bring us into his design of abundance for ourselves and for others. So God's design is not to suppress us.
God's design is there to give us a rich experience of what it means to follow him. You know, I was thinking when I was a kid, this just wasn't talked about. So it came across as rules. Yeah, because it was just do this or don't do this.
But there was never why. And I think as I've grown, and I know Jesus more and I lean into know him, I've experienced the why and I understand the why coming from God. That's for my best. Yeah.
But when you don't know the why, sometimes it feels like just rules. That's right. I'm really glad you said that. Yeah, it starts with the why and the who behind the why.
It's him that we can trust that could trust him. Yeah, otherwise it can be just mechanical follow rules. And if I did it, then he owes me or if I didn't, then I'm out. Like I'm never going to find my way back.
Exactly. It's so much more than just about the mechanical rule. That's really good. Fantastic.
Alright, so we go to look at a couple of questions. What are the things influences and relationships that have shaped your view of sex? How have those years changed over the years? And then how might God be inviting you to align more with his good vision and his design for sex?
What would you encourage your life to believe is as they lead out these questions? I think one thing I would encourage is asking who brought into you. Like in my life, I was really blessed to have older ladies that always brought into me. Whether it was actually a mentor role or just because I liked gaining wisdom from them, hearing about their marriage, about their relationship, how they cared for one another, how they look their kids, all kinds of things, but just cleaning from them.
Did you have anybody like that? And how did that influence you? And then the opposite is true, too. Where you were gaining influence, where you had to gain more, you had to learn more insight to be able to make sense of things.
Right. Yeah, that's good. That's great. Yeah.
So yeah, where the insights come from, I think we're, we're going to need to trust God and his goodness, you know, where you need to follow after the lie, where you stuck in the mechanics. There's different ways to frame up these questions. And I love that in this weekend and actually, I believe the next two weekends is extended prayer and all of our services because we know that this is a real issue that hits people in lots of different ways. And so we never just want to have the discussion and leave it at that.
But there's a moment for us to really receive prayer to hear God's voice, his grace, his companions, compassionate lives. And then you can reinforce that in the groups that you leave this week, week as well. That's right. Give me less thoughts for us as we wrap up week four.
Just grace and truth as a leader leaning in with grace because a lot of pain comes with the subject and our formation just impacts the rest of our lives. So we're praying for you for healing, for people, new groups. We're going to pray alongside you that this is just a space where God shows up. That's great.
So good. And then we're only three weeks out from Easter. Is that what it is? Right?
You're going to see kids reaction as one of overwhelming joy and enthusiasm. That's right around the corner of the day. It is the best time of year, right? You get to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus and the difference that that makes for everyday lives.
Really good. Well, Kim, thanks so much for your time. Appreciate your insight. We'll serve our community so well.
Awesome. All right, group leaders. We will see you on here next week.