'Sorry, all our agents are busy right now'

Why does it seem so hard to contact a business these days? It's almost like they deliberately hide their phone numbers from us. When we do manage to ring, they often make us sit through an endless list of 'caller options' before allowing us to speaking to anyone. Are they deliberately trying to dissuade us from getting in touch or are we expecting too much too soon from customer services? Evan Davis speak to the people managing our calls.Guests: Leigh Hopwood: Chief Executive of the Call Centre Management Association Dave Mills: NHS specialist at EVAD Tim Callington: Director of technology firm FlipsideProducer: Nick Holland Studio Managers: James Beard & Rod Farquhar Production Coordinators: Siobhan Reed & Iona Hammond Editor: Hugh Levinson .