Hi, this is Makayla with Honest Talk Radio. Honest Talk Radio is a space where we will be sharing the good, the bad, and the ugly in real, raw conversations to try and do our part to reduce the amount of shame, guilt, and judgment so many of us when we face. Our hope is that through these conversations, you will feel supported and encouraged in every aspect of your life. So let's get started.
Welcome to another episode of Honest Talk Radio. I'm your host Makayla, military-style homeschooling mom-to-three entrepreneur, grad student, and overall, a woman on a mission to help you navigate the uncertainties of this life with ease and confidence while staying true to your personal identity. This show is about having real, raw, and honest conversations even around some of the toughest topics. Later on in the show, I'm going to be talking to Wendy Yackabello as she opens up about what it's like to go through a miscarriage as a military spouse.
As many of you know, this is a struggle that a lot of women face, and being married to a military member can only add to it. Y'all, the military life is unique, and it can oftentimes magnify the challenges that we face, because let's face it, nine times out of ten, you're away from close family and friends. Deployments are real, and they're hard. Not to mention finding support can be difficult.
Also, I mean, when it comes to miscarriages, continuity of healthcare is a challenge at best, and the list goes on. There are so many physical and emotional stressors associated with miscarriage, and so for those of you listening, this may be a hard episode, but chances are you or someone you know has gone through something similar. So our hope is that this episode will encourage you, and it will help you to know that you are not alone, you are not alone in any of your struggles. I want to encourage you, if you are going through something difficult right now, please, please don't hesitate to reach out.
Also, if you have a story to share that you think someone else can benefit from, please contact me at mikyla at honesttalkinternational.com. Alright, let's bring on Wendy. Y'all are going to love today's guest, Wendy Yackabello from Strength for Souses. Wendy believes that Inner Strength is developed through four pillars.
Those four pillars are fitness, faith, volunteerism, and finding purpose. Wendy loves to inspire the military community to find their strength in these areas through exercise and movement and discovering and strengthening faith, giving back to local communities and finding purpose in the current season and duty station that you're in. Today, Wendy and I are going to have an honest conversation around a very hard topic, miscarriages, especially in relation to being a military spouse. This is a difficult topic, but our hope is to create a safe space for military spouses to not feel alone and instead feel connected, supported, and encouraged.
Wendy, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me today. Thank you for being here. I'm really happy that you said yes to my invitation to be on the podcast and I just, I, and looking forward to where this conversation goes.
And for those of you that are listening, I just, we both hope that through our conversation, again, that you're going to feel connected, related, and encouraged through any season of life that you're going through right now. So Wendy, you had mentioned that you have previously had a miscarriage before. Before we get into that deep topic, would you give your, in a little introduction to who you are and what you do? Sure.
Okay. Hi, everyone. My name is Wendy and I've been a military spouse coming up on five years and I've been part of military life and with my husband for seven years. I came into this life a little bit later in my mid 30 and I became a first-time mom at the age of 40 last year after the mid period.
So military life has redirected my career as it does for most of us. In the past, I was in higher education and once I relocated with my husband, I kind of delved into the freelance writing world, started my blog and I really enjoyed where that has taken me and I have also become a certified group fitness instructor. And before COVID, I was doing some things at Fort Rag with moms and charlotte-fits and office cycling, which I love and really loved to volunteer and be active in the community because I find giving back and being a volunteer in areas that are of interest to me and helps you not only get to know people, but it can also lift your spirits when you're going through something or you're feeling a little bit blue to be able to give back and brighten someone else's day. It just does the same back for you too.
Oh, I love that. First of all, Aqua cycling sounds amazing. I mean, that's awesome. I've never tried that before.
I'm going to have to put that one down in the book to try. But I love, love, love that you talked about volunteering in the community and just being part of the community because so many times we feel military spouses can feel like such transplants that we don't belong to the community, but when you put yourself out there and interject yourself, it actually becomes a blessing for you and for them. So I love it definitely. Yes, because we do feel very alone in this life.
And if you get out of your house and go find a cause or find something that will fit with your lifestyle, if you have children, if you don't have children, find something that you can give back and feel good about on the inside. And you're going to be around people who have a common shared goal in that area and you're going to meet some people who have some things in common. Yeah, you know, one of my biggest motto that I think I say that every show is resilient, not resentful, be resilient, not resentful. And just like yourself, I've definitely found what helps me to be resilient is to give back and to be part of a community and really learn about each area that we live in and learn about find those local shops and find those local restaurants that you get to know, you know, the mom and pop owners and put a smile on their face and they put a smile on your face when you walk in and we as a family have been doing that for the past 18 years.
So I'm so happy that here you say that. That makes my heart happy. So as we get started, the reason why you had mentioned on my on a post that I put out there on Moni Jefferson's group, Mel South's creative about podcast topics and you had come up with you know, how miscarriage is something I wanted, you know, I asked for what are some honest conversations that need to be had and miscarriages in the military is something that so many women and families go through and don't always feel comfortable talking about. So again, thank you for being on the show and thank you for being willing to be vulnerable and share your story.
Of course. So tell me what would you mind sharing a little bit about your experience? Sure. Again, I married my husband later in life and so our clocks were ticking pretty good.
So once we got married, so we tried her, I'm going to say about two years to have a baby and I started asking my doctors and questions and said something like wrong with me because I was at my age in my late 30s and she said that there was wrong with me. I needed to pay attention to an ovulation calendar and I'd never imagined myself being one of those people to play on the pregnancy like that, to just kind of give it to God and say when it's supposed to be, it's going to be. And to my surprise, a couple of months after that visit and conversation with my doctor, we were pregnant and I couldn't believe it because we had tried for like two years without success and so it was such a magical moment for my husband and I when we found out and the first thing that most women do is, okay, when do I need to go to the doctor after you find out you're pregnant? That's going to be the next step.
So contacted my doctor, got the appointment set up and for that first ultrasound, that kind of first doctor appointment and at the time my husband was going to be leaving the state to go training, he was going to TTY somewhere else and so my mom had stepped up and said, you know, hey, I'll go with you to the appointment. I was like, okay, because I don't know what to really accept, you know, and I don't really want to go alone. So my mom came with me and I went back and talked with a nurse for a little while. She talked to me probably 30 minutes about how to care myself, what to eat, what not to eat, how to take care of the baby and everything.
And so then the moment we all wait for is the ultrasound. So that was the house. And once we went into that room and we got my husband on FaceTime luckily, he was able to be there on the phone. Yeah, which that's a big thing with the military sales community and trying to involve your spouse somehow when they're away for these important events and the ultrasound tech just kind of gave me a look and walked out of the room and I just thought like, I don't want to say.
And she came back in with the doctor and the doctor looked around in there and told me she couldn't find a heartbeat. She told me what no woman ever wants to hear that. I was just like, what? No, I'm pregnant.
What are you talking about? Like I haven't had a bullying, I haven't had any cramping, I haven't had any symptoms to wear it as something as well with our baby. And so I was just in a state of shock and they both left the room and gave my mom a baby. I was just talking to my husband about this last night because we were watching a television show where a girl had went in for an ultrasound and got the same, there's no heartbeat thing.
And I looked at my husband and I was like, I don't even know what your face looked like on FaceTime because everything went dark and black and the whole world just stops in that moment. And he was like, well your mom was up really close, we're going to have to call you back. Because I said, I don't even know what happened to you on the phone, everything was in dark in my mind, in my mind, in the world. And when we were watching the thing on TV, the doctor came back in and was really compassionate, like these things do happen and 10% of pregnancy or one out of so many pregnancies, women have a miscarriage and that doesn't mean that it's going to happen.
On TV, it was so compassionate and I was like, that is not the way it was. It was like, there's no heartbeat, let me give you a minute and then I came back in and said, all right, we need to talk about how to remove this baby. And I was like, mom, I can't even think about this right now. I'll look at my mom, I can't even process that.
I can't even think about it right now. It's just too much. I was like, I'm still processing. There's no heartbeat.
So that was really tough, not having my husband there. And going through the whole process, which some spouses may know about this, some may not to release me, but going through the whole Red Cross process to get my husband back home. So what that is, if you haven't been through it, and correct me if I'm wrong, because it's been a little while, but the first thing I had to do was contact Red Cross, give him a husband's name, his unit, what the message was, what was wrong. And then I also had to get my doctor's office, had to contact them.
It was a Friday, so they were after hours, I had to contact their person on call and I said, well, husband's in the military. I'm trying to get him home. I'm going to have to call this number with the Red Cross and tell them, you're my physician, give them proof, this is what happened. So going through all that and getting it up the chain of command.
And then once it gets out of the chain of command, that message to your spouses unit, it is up to the chain of command to say, yes, we're going to send your house home or no, they cannot leave right now. We got something else going on. So luckily they let my husband leave and he was home within, I'm going to say within 48 hours or less. Okay.
I'm sure that, which was amazing. And I'm talking about, I've never hugged my husband. I'm so tireder than I did when I picked him up from the airport that day in Fayetteville. I mean, I just hugged him so tight because this is just such a big burden that we did not expect to happen.
Right. And for the ones, for the spouses who don't have their spouse home to hug or to be able to get home and love on them during this thing that affects your everything. Yeah. Yeah.
I just want to say like that, I can't even imagine being able to have my husband home because that is something that we both grieved and went through together as a company. And to base that without him would have been really, really tight. I know there are women out there who have to face a loan and I just want to reach out and give you a big hug through this podcast. Yeah, me too.
Like I'm so sorry. Like this sometimes military life is really hard. And in those kind of situations, it's so hard and it feels so unfair. But I'm going to say like, I don't want this to be so sappy, but I'm going to say like there is mine at the end of this tunnel, like one group.
And I'm a living proof of that kind of jumping ahead of here. But a couple of years after that, we were able to have our rainbow baby. So I have a beautiful little 10 month boy now through all of that. That's the rainbow after the storm.
So I want to put that little piece of hope in there for women who are listening who may be still in the wait for their miracle after the marriage. And just say that there is hope and it is a hard journey. And there are days when you just don't feel like you can go on. There are days when you feel like, you know, I got my cycle again this month.
That means we're not pregnant again. Those times are really hard and they take a really good toll on you as a person and yourself esteem and yourself confidence in every. Yeah. So I, on my blog, I really shout the message of fitness, fake, volunteerism, and founder purpose because I believe each one of those things were very therapeutic for me after miscarriage.
Strengthen in my fate, getting some exercise and feeling better about myself again. Because you feel like as a woman when your body has a miscarriage that you just, you don't feel like your body is doing what it's supposed to be doing, what you made and born for it to have a baby to be able to produce a child. So you start to feel really low on yourself. And I believe exercise really helps because it builds you up physically.
It builds you up mentally. It just works in really big wonders. And then you do some of those other things like that. And it really starts to lift you back up.
Would you say that, sorry, would you say that you found, would you say that you found part of your community, you know, your healing community through the exercise, through your fitness. Most definitely. And I'm going to say like this group that I found at that time going through that stuff was a group of moms. And I know there are these amazing fitness groups at just about every post and every state and everything that you go to, that this group who does not exist here anymore.
They were a group of moms and I thought to myself, like, I don't know if this is a good idea because I'm not a mom technically. I don't have a child here. But I kept seeing their interaction with each other online and it was so positive. And so like breathing life into each other and I thought, I might need a little dose of that.
So let me go give this a try. And so I do and I left with like happy tears. Like I needed that. And these women were like high five in each other and just building each other up.
And I'm the stranger coming into this little network and they were so welcoming to me. And this group of mothers and some were not mothers. I thought it was all moms, but it was, there were moms, there were non moms. They just walk in the end with their arms.
And they were a big part of the healing process, working out and sweating it out with these wonderful women who were also military spouses. It just gave me a place to belong. Well, in an exercise groups and you know, that's you're very vulnerable with each other just with the exercise alone, you know, because I know as women we tend to compare and she's she can run faster than me, she can do more pull ups or push ups or whatever the case may be. So you're you're vulnerable going into it, but sometimes being vulnerable, what I'm hearing from your story is that being vulnerable allowed you to actually put yourself into a space of healing and community and friendships.
Yes. And I met some amazing women through that group who were my really good friends and still are and we tackled some fitness goals together and just kind of, you know, the building up started at that moment for all of us and especially for me. Yeah, yeah, that's powerful. You know, the point of this podcast is to really share.
And so for those of you that are listening that maybe don't that haven't gone through and this carries yourself, we hope you can gain something out of this podcast too. So Wendy, what are some of the things, what are some of the best things and some of the worst things that people said to you or did? In other words, what are some of those triggers so that maybe if you know those that are listening haven't had a miscarriage, they know how to support friends and family that have for me have in the future. Okay, this is this is really important.
You know, and you don't really know what to say to someone who's going through this. And it's an our human nature to want to fix stuff. When you see someone in your family or your friend that we're hurting and in the depths of despair, especially after something like this, you want to jump in there and you want to fix it and you want to make them feel better. And unfortunately, there are some situations like this where there's just no magic phrase, there's no magic action that's going to make it better.
But there are things you can do that are very comforting to someone. So I'll start with that. One thing that you can do and always do if that person decided to name their baby, don't be afraid to say the baby's name. I think it's people think like, oh, is she going to start crying if I say her baby's name or something like that?
But you're still, you're still a mother, you carry a light no matter how short that life was. And some people decide to name them, give that life a name and my husband and I did. And it makes me feel so good as a mom to hear the name of my other son, which his name was Chance. And so to say their name and to let them know that you have not forgotten their baby, that that life mattered.
I think that is a big compliment to that mom. And in addition to saying their baby's name, there are lots of cool gifts on Etsy in different places where you can have made to memorialize that baby and that name. And those are covering gifts as well. But also just getting hugs, just saying come here and let me hug you.
Just be in Tinder if you're a friend or if you're a spouse, not being afraid to be Tinder if you're a person or a spouse. I want to stop you real quick on the hugs part because I think you had talked about how we have a tendency to want to fix a situation. And I also think going along with that, a lot of us are uncomfortable in silence. And so, but sometimes in this type of situation, it's okay to be silent and just hug and embrace and let them cry.
Yes, yes, because again, there are no magic words and just kind of that silence gives the person hurting the opportunity to speak or to cry or to do whatever they need to do to get through the group. So hugs are great. Providing the meal for that person because there is a healing process after having a miscarriage. You know, because we don't have to have a CNC, a dilation and cut is cut is or you have to pass the baby at home on your own.
So there either method that a person chooses you have to, there's a healing process about right. And then there's an emotional healing process. And I don't think I did a lot of cooking around that time. I think I was just so devastated.
I think my husband is cooking through that period. But if you can provide a meal to that person card, that would work as well. Because I know with with their current times cooking and doing all the things we usually do, some people just ought to give a meal card to someone who gets card. But really also praying for that person, not just saying, hey, I'm praying for you, but actually saying for your that person and your healing journey.
Yeah, that's really powerful. And just allowing them the opportunity to be whatever that may look like. Just let them be and don't try to rush a greeting process or something like that. It takes some people a little bit of time and some people a lot of time to get through something like this.
And every person is different and how they greet. So giving them the autonomy to greet the way that they want to. Absolutely. And also being a friend is recommending help, not forcing someone for help saying, hey, here are some resources in your area.
I know a lot of people put out in your military one source because they're 24 seven available. But I think something that might have been really helpful for me at the time is somebody to give me a list of resources and say, here are some different phone numbers and organizations that you can contact if you feel like you really need to go see somebody. Yeah, that's really good. You know, just taking the research off their plate and just giving it to them and giving them the choice if they want to do something with their groups.
Yeah, like Facebook support groups and just searching out what are the best ones and then, you know, or what which groups seem to be the most active and caring and even that. I mean, just being able to know there's a group out there that have gone through what you are going through. Yes. And if they are cute at the fun other people who've been there who can understand like the real emotions that you might be feeling.
I remember experiencing a lot of anger at first and that's part of the seven stages of grief. Anger is a really, I think the first one and shock and disbelief like, no, this is not happening to me. But as you work your way through those things, you know, if you're a family member or a friend or a spouse, just understanding that grief is not a pretty journey sometimes. It can be an ugly journey and it can be powerful at the end, but it takes a while to get there.
It can be a very patient with your loved ones. Also really helpful. Just give patience to them. Yeah.
Yeah. What are some of the things that trigger you? You know, just even being out and about and maybe not with necessarily, you know, in a conversation with someone or with a friend, but I've heard of, you know, some moms get triggered at the grocery store or running their errands, you know. Oh man.
I don't know. It feels like kind of when you go through a miscarriage, it feels like you look around and the whole world is pregnant about you. That's what it feels like. And it's not true, but it's, you're so hypersensitive to pregnancies after that.
It's like everywhere you look there, you're around. But I think, you know, something that I found very powerful friends or family members who got pregnant after we lost a baby, some of them reached out to me individually to share that announcement. And I thought that was really sweet or something else. Baby showers can be tough.
I remember the first baby shower I went to after the miscarriage was my older sister's baby shower. Our babies were about three months apart and mine did not survive and who's did? Yeah. I was so excited we were going to be pregnant together.
But going to that baby shower was really tough. And I think if you're inviting a friend who's had a miscarriage to a baby shower, I think it's best to reach out to them individually and say, hey, I would love for you to be there. But if you're not up to it, I totally understand. You know, because you can't expect somebody to do that.
And when you're heavy and grief still, you don't want to go in room in the moment or someone else. You'd rather just send a gift and say behind. So I guess giving people the opportunity to decide if they feel strong enough that day to be there or not is important in understanding that it's nothing personal against you and your baby. It's just they don't want to ruin your joy in your moment with your sorrow and sadness.
Yeah, that's really good. That's such a good reminder. And I think like you said, having being the person to reach out if you're the one having the baby shower and you know with a friend, a little bit of a side step. But when I was pregnant with my second, I was pregnant with a close friend.
We were together pregnant because I think we were doing a week apart and my friend ended up losing her baby. And there was a lot of guilt that I carried. I carried a lot of guilt for the fact that my baby, you know, I was able to birth her to term and she was healthy. And even after I had her, not that I wished anything bad would happen, but I did.
I carried a lot of that guilt because you know, you wonder why her, not why not me or, you know, and it's just so I ended up, we went to a pie asked her to meet me at a park one day and we went to the park and I just shared with her how I was feeling so that not to put anything on her. But I had her know that I truly cared about her feelings and I didn't want to say anything wrong or say anything bad, but at the same time I just wanted her to know that I loved her and I was sorry that it happened. And it was hard. I'm not going to lie being the other person, the one that didn't have the miscarriage and lose the baby.
It was still difficult, but hard conversations need to be had. And so when you mentioned reaching out, you know, giving the person that's grieving an opportunity to say yes in exception of the teaching or say no and do it from what's right for them in whatever case is really important. I think so. And one thing like when you're talking to somebody or somebody on social media, I've seen a couple of these posts in the last couple of weeks on Instagram just breaks my heart of women having miscarriages and you know, everybody's like, I'm so sorry, I'm praying for you and different things like that.
One thing that I heard a lot of that is not very helpful is using the words at least. There is absolutely no at least when you're going through a miscarriage. There's no, at least you know you can get pregnant, at least you and your husband are young enough to try again. I mean, none of those things help or you know, there's always a reason for something and to me and to steal this day, even though I'm on the other side of grief, there is absolutely no reason I can think of why women should go through something so tragic and devastating.
There's no reason that a woman should ever have to deal with that. I think refraining from the words at least, please don't at least anything to your friend or your loved one because there's nothing that is going to make that situation better with those words. Yeah. It's really good.
I mean, and again, it comes back down to people don't know what to say. So it's if you don't know what to say, maybe sometimes it's best to say nothing or just and pray for them. If you know, send, like you said, you know, you just to recap, some of the things that you can do in these situations are use the baby's name if they decided to name the baby, send a thoughtful memorializing gift, help lots of hugs and embrace tender embraces and just being just being available, I think, you know, because in grief, like you mentioned, your life essentially stops for a time. It feels like everybody else's life just goes on and it's it's really difficult.
I haven't lost a baby, but I lost my father and I would get angry when I felt like other people's lives were just going on and it didn't matter. And it wasn't that I was angry at anyone. I was angry in the situation. Just anytime somebody would stop and recognize that it was a difficult time, made it helped me tremendously.
And then meals and these days delivery, I mean, if you don't cook or you can't get them a gift card or you know, getting the other is pretty easy to. And then lots of prayers not trying to rush the healing process. And I loved what you talked about with recommending help because that just shows that even if you don't understand what a person's going through, other people can and there's other resources out there that can help. Is there any for the person going through the miscarriage or perhaps just has had that experience?
Is there any advice that you would give them? I know you talked about volunteering and getting you know, joining a community fitness faith. Is there anything, any words of wisdom that you would like to share as we kind of wrap up? Oh, wow.
I think the biggest thing on the journey is hope. So if you are in the struggle to get pregnant again after your miscarriage and month after month, you have your cycle again, which means obviously you're not pregnant. Hang it on to hope is a really hard journey. But I'm going to say like there were people in my family and friends network whose hope was much bigger than mine for my husband and I to have a baby.
And those are the people who really pushed me through those really tough moments. So surround yourself with positive people who are your cheerleaders on this infertility journey too. And really cling to those people. There was a woman in my aunt's church who began to pray for my husband and I who never met a support.
She would ask my aunt every week in church is Wendy pregnant yet and my aunt would say, no, not yet. And she said, oh, it's coming. It's going to happen. And then the next week they would have the same conversation.
Am I, yeah, what's happening about this? She said, Wendy, she is full of hope and she knows it was going to happen for you. And I just sometimes I thought like, who is this woman and how does she have someone who I don't? And I just clung to that.
Like, man, how does she have all this hope? I need to really cling to that. And by the end of that year, she told my aunt about the end of the year when she said, I know it. I've been praying for it.
And by the end of the year, I was pregnant. And that story, that lady and my aunt were two of many people who just prayed for us and just had bigger hope than we did, which gave me a little sprinkle of hope on those days. And I had none. So I think for women on this journey, the biggest thing is hope.
You've got to find it. You've got to keep it in your heart, even if it's just a little mustard seed of hope some days and a watermelon seed other days. That little ounce of hope is going to get you through. Yeah.
And I love that you mentioned you might not necessarily have as much hope as someone else, by surrounding yourself with people that do is very powerful. And it all goes back down to community. And I know in the military's house world that can be really difficult because you're not always close to family. You don't have most of the time.
You don't have family nearby. Or you might be at a new duty station and haven't really found your people yet. Those are some elements that a lot of people may not understand. But I would like to encourage those of you listening that are walking through any trial right now, whether it's miscarriage or something that reach out, join, go to different events and groups because your people are out there.
They're out there somewhere. Like you said, Wendy, you found them in your exercise groups and church. And although it's difficult to get off the couch and pull yourself, get out there and make that first step. Sometimes that first step can be the best thing that you do.
And I love the community. Having community is everything. My husband and I will be PCS in this fall through a new duty station. And I'm scared to death because I will be so far from all support systems and everybody I know.
But what it's going to make me have to do is to rebuild that community again. So once we get in there and get settled, I'm going to have to get myself back out there again too. And that's what I encourage everybody to do too, is to just get out of your comfort zone, put yourself out there and go find some people that have the same beliefs. Common goals and things that you do.
And that's going to make all the differences. Even if it's just one person, all you need is that one person at your duty station that you can depend on, that can depend on you and that you can laugh together with. You need that in this life and you cannot do this life alone. No, that's for sure.
Yeah, just knowing that don't make yourself do this life alone. Nobody wants needs that. Nobody can do that. You've got to get out there and find support for yourself.
And if you're going through something really heavy, don't be afraid to contact some support. Find a strength that's reaching out for help when you need it and not trying to think about yourself. Yeah, we don't. We think, especially I was having this conversation with someone else the other day, a client of mine, how we for some reason women think that we have to do it all alone.
Like if we're not doing it alone, that we're failing or we're weak. But the reality is we all need someone. And so if we just rely on each other and like you mentioned with your fitness group, they were lifting each other up and sharing each other on. And that's what it should be like.
And I just, I love that you came on today and were able to share a heart, a very difficult road that you've walked down. But in the end, like you said, you clung on to hope and now you have your beautiful little boy, 10 month old. What was his name again? Roman.
Roman. Ah, love it. And so a story of hope and then all the wonderful things that you shared with us today. And for those of you who are listening again, I hope, I hope that you have gained some great insight out of our honest conversation today.
And don't be afraid to reach out to either Wendy or myself because we'll be your cheerleaders if you're going through anything, anything difficult right now. Wendy, before we go, please share with the listeners where they can find you on social media. Okay, sure. You can find me on Facebook at strength the number four in spouses.
I'm also on Instagram. It's a more personal view of my world and this military life on Instagram, strength versus spouses and also on Twitter. Although my Twitter game is a little lower than Instagram and Facebook. You can find me there and put some things out there everyone's to know how to.
Awesome. Thank you. I really appreciate this. And again, thank you for taking the time out for having a great conversation today.
Thank you. Thank you for listening to today's show. Please like to come on the show and have an honest conversation about connecting, relating, and encouraging women. Contact us at hello at honesttalkinternational.com.
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