State of the Art of DORA Metrics & AI Integration • Nathen Harvey & Charles Humble

This interview was recorded for GOTO State of the Art in October 2025.https://gotopia.techRead the full transcription of this interview here:https://gotopia.tech/articles/415Nathen Harvey - DORA Lead, Product Manager at Google Cloud & AuthorCharles Humble - Freelance Techie, Podcaster, Editor, Author & ConsultantRESOURCESNathenhttps://bsky.app/profile/nathenharvey.bsky.socialhttps://x.com/nathenharveyhttps://github.com/nathenharveyhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/nathenhttps://linktr.ee/nathenharveyhttp://nathenharvey.comCharleshttps://bsky.app/profile/charleshumble.bsky.socialhttps://linkedin.com/in/charleshumblehttps://mastodon.social/@charleshumblehttps://conissaunce.comLinkshttps://dora.devhttps://dora.dev/research/2025/dora-reporthttps://dora.dev/research/2024/dora-reporthttps://thenewstack.io/ebooks/kubernetes/kubernetes-at-the-edge-container-orchestration-at-scaleDESCRIPTIONCharles Humble speaks with Nathen Harvey, leader of Google's DORA research team, about the real impact of AI on software development.Drawing from surveys of nearly 5,000 practitioners, Nathen reveals a surprising finding: increased AI adoption initially correlates with decreased stability and throughput - the very metrics teams have optimized for decades. The conversation explores why this happens, what capabilities organizations need before scaling AI adoption, and how AI acts as an amplifier of existing systems rather than a silver bullet.Nathen introduces DORA's seven AI capabilities model and discusses critical issues around trust, documentation, skill devaluation, and the future of software delivery in an AI-native world.RECOMMENDED BOOKSEmily Freeman & Nathen Harvey • 97 Things Every Cloud Engineer Should Know • https://amzn.to/3UlWBLtCharles Humble • Professional Skills for Software Engineers • https://www.conissaunce.com/professional-skills-shortcutNicole Forsgren, Jez Humble & Gene Kim • Accelerate • https://amzn.to/442Rep0Kim, Humble, Debois, Willis & Forsgren • The DevOps Handbook • https://amzn.to/47oAf3lJez Humble & David Farley • Continuous Delivery • https://amzn.to/452ZRkyJez Humble, Joanne Molesky & Barry O'Reilly • Lean Enterprise • https://amzn.to/47pcOXDAdrienne Braganza Tacke • "Looks Good to Me": Constructive Code Reviews • https://amzn.to/3E75XrDYevgeniy Brikman • Fundamentals of DevOps and Software Delivery • https://amzn.to/3WMPMFUBlueskyInstagramLinkedInFacebookCHANNEL MEMBERSHIP BONUSJoin this channel to get early access to videos & other perks:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs_tLP3AiwYKwdUHpltJPuA/joinLooking for a unique learning experience?Attend the next GOTO conference near you! Get your ticket: gotopia.techSUBSCRIBE TO OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL - new videos posted daily!