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More than 200,000 lawyers and 80% of the AMLAW 100 are building with Harvey, accelerating review, sharpening negotiations, and more. Harvey, learn more at Harvey.ai. Harvey does not provide legal advice. Users should always independently review and verify any output from Harvey. The new era of BMW has begun, marked by cutting edge technology and an unforgettable driving experience.
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Actually, the real Josh Mankowitz is opposed to some faker-y Josh Mankowitz, which I've been seeing on social media lately. I'm Josh Mankowitz. I'm Josh Mankowitz. Will the real Josh Mankowitz please stand up? I think an argument can be made that that's the real Josh.
Wait a minute. Here's a faker guy. That's right, the other one was the real one. He looked like a nice fella. So I'm here at Boston to meet in person somebody that I really only know from the online one.
And here's the thing. His name is Joshua Mankowitz. Alert viewers of Dateline may have noticed that's also my name. So it's always time that we meet. Josh Mankowitz.
Josh Mankowitz. Nice to meet you. You're taller than I expected. You're taller than almost any other Mankowitz than I know. Now anybody who has not seen this reunion of the two Josh Mankowitz's on social media might be able to find it.
Anyway, we have Josh Mankowitz to talk about the episode our season premiere of our 35th season. It was called the family plot. The story begins with a man shot to death in the foyer, I guess, or the hall of his in-laws house, mother-in-law's house. And then there's a long and twisted investigation to see what happened. And I will say that from very early on in this episode, nobody else may have noticed it, but I sure did.
That young detective A was very impressive and B looked so much like a guy you could see on Scandinavian murder mystery stories on television named Olafur Olafson. Have you ever seen him? Oh, he's the star of Trapped, which is exactly that. Island, is that an Island so good? But the dog and us in the sincerity were also shared traits, and I was an admirer of that.
You had a great job. Well, anyway, before we get to the story, why don't you listen to the episode if you haven't yet. You can find it right below this one or stream it on Peacock and then come right back here. And when you come back, we'll have more from Tracy Grisett's police interview. The night Matt was killed and later we'll answer some of your questions from social media.
All right, let's talk take line. This was a good one. This was just, I love the investigative part of it. It really followed this investigative trail. What was your impression of the thing when you got to hear the details?
Well, I mean, it is mind-boggling when you sort of look at this. I mean, they lured this guy from California to Utah. Mom sort of involved as many members of her family as she could in doing that. And they all kind of, I guess, did what she said. I guess they were kind of used to that over the years.
And then they tell this phony story that Matt, the victim in this, came in aggressively and pushed Kevin up against the wall and he had a knife. And like instantly, there's things wrong with that scenario. It fell apart from the beginning. I mean, Kevin, the brother who fired the shot, the shots, he was shot seven times. He was taken into custody that night despite his argument that it was a self-defense shooting.
The cops didn't believe that for a second. And Kevin, I think, was never out of custody again. Like he went in instantly and that was the end of that. And then the only question was, who else was involved? The hapless Kevin, I think you could say.
And by the way, if they thought they were going to be away with it, that plot started crumbling from the beginning. You know, he's shot through the wrist, but he's still holding the knife. He's holding the knife in his wrong hand. He took off his shoes before he came into the living room, right? Something that home invaders generally don't do.
Well, they clearly were a bunch of amateur murderers. No question about that. I think the plan was to just make it sound like Matt was an angry, you know, vengeful guy. And he, you know, came over, barged in. You know, they'd taken the screen door off to make it easier for him to come in the house.
She says to him in the calls, like, you're coming in, right? You're going to come in. I need your help with the kids, you know, getting all their stuff. And the kid stuff was not packed, which it would have been if Matt's going to collect them and they're going to go home. Everything about this fell apart.
You know, they're blankets on the furniture to keep blood spatter off it. That's not something you generally do. Kevin, who fires the shot, has a holster in his pocket. I don't think you walk around your house at night with your gun in a holster on your hip, unless you're planning to or expecting to use it. That definitely stood out for police.
No question. That's the old check off notion that if a gun makes an appearance, it's going to be used in the next act. That's right. Yeah. But the, the, I'm interested in the architecture of this family.
My impression was, and I'd like to know your impression, is it all went back, as you said, to the mother. What was your sense of her character, her personality, her maybe her psychiatric quirks? She had gotten away with a lot of crimes, smaller than this, as far as we know. But she'd gotten away with a lot of crimes, like all her life. Some of them she'd just about by saying she needed to feed her family, so that's why she shopped with it.
But she also stole money from her friends, from people she knew regularly. And so I said, we can no longer be friends. Tracy denied stealing from Terry, but seemed fine with that long friendship being over, as long as she didn't get into trouble. She has a way of talking her way out of things that blows my mind. So what I think she thought is that I am smarter than law enforcement, kind of in the aggregate.
And if we tell a plausible story, we'll get away with this too. Now, the issue of why Matt Rustelli needed to be executed is it can't be explained. The only issue is to save her daughter, Kate, some headache and heartache and financial responsibility in a divorce. But like, like, like, this was not a terrible guy. I mean, mom didn't like it, but like, there was nothing about Matt Rustelli that should have made anybody think let's kill him.
So the mother was a not only a thief and a lawbreaker, but she was, it seems to me, or at least from what I could discern, remarkably manipulative. She had a Sven Golly-like power over her kids. She reminds me of Sante Kimes about who we did in a number of stories. And in the similarity also includes the fact that the children are still beside her mother. The sons in Kimes' case still talk about how much they love her, even though she did all these dreadful things and made them do dreadful things.
And I was fascinated by Terrell in and how she, you know, wanted to believe that there was nothing terribly nefarious going on. Terrell in is a wonderful character. And also, I think basically a very good person. I think nobody wants to believe the worst about their family. And I think Terrell in has a lot in common with a lot of other families.
I think it's very hard to believe that this mom that you've seen sort of get away with little things over the years has now graduated to the big time and is doing a murder. And you know, when Kevin was arrested and then Kate, I think Terrell still expected very quickly that the police were going to realize they'd made two giant mistakes and set them free. You know, you can see her in this episode sort of starting to change the way she thinks about her mom and sort of what hell she sort of wrought on her brother and her sister and other people in the family too. And I mean, that was the huge value of Terrell in is that she's sort of changing her opinion maybe at the same time the audience is kind of realizing, wow, this is a lot bigger than I thought.
You know, at the end, I think Terrell came to and does realize the way things really are. Now, you know, I mean, there was there are people in this story in the Riselli family who believe that Terrell has some culpability here for which she's never been charged. But there is there really is no evidence that Terrell and had anything to do with this except it was her idea, apparently, to put the air tag in Matt's truck. But that was at the time when she believed that Kate was escaping an abusive relationship. So that kind of made sense in that context.
Her older sister and her mother kept telling her again and again with an awful, awful person. The husband was and that he was dangerous and that if you're going to leave this man, you better do it without announcing it because if you announce it, he might kill you. I mean, it was that kind of serious allegation. And why wouldn't she believe it? You know, she wasn't right.
I mean, nobody wants to believe the worst about their family. All right. Well, speaking of Tracy, when we come back after this little break, we'll hear more from Tracy's police interview, the night Matt was killed. It starts with a handshake. A word becomes an agreement.
An agreement becomes a contract. A contract becomes bound by law. Today, Harvey, the AI platform designed specifically for legal work, is powering that next step. More than 200,000 lawyers and 80% of the AMLAW 100 are building with Harvey, accelerating review, sharpening negotiations and more. Harvey, learn more at Harvey.ai.
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Fisherman Calvin Penny, played by Josh Hartnett, is already burdened by his father's mysterious death when a sea creature begins terrorizing his hometown, putting his son Wade, played by Charlie Heaton and the rest of his family in danger. Partnering with a visiting marine researcher, Mackenzie Davis, Calvin must protect what's left of his family and uncover the area's long-buried secrets. Watch below, streaming only on Netflix. How does the Adelson case intersect with this one? How did you find out about it?
We were already interested in this story. But then we found out that Tracy, the mom, had searched online. The cops found this on her devices. It searched online. New Dateline episode on the Adelson case.
Various searches about Donna Adelson. The two cases are so similar. There's a divorce. There's a contentious custody battle. In this case, the divorce hadn't even filed yet.
It was just sort of thinking down the road to what's going to happen if there is a divorce and where are we going to live and who's going to get custody and where the kids going to be. But there was, in this case, an impending divorce and an impending custody battle and there was an actual one with the Adelson's. But in the same vein, it is the mom, the matriarch of the family, Donna in Florida and Tracy in Utah, who sort of puts this conspiracy in emotion and involves other people, some members of the family. In this case, it was all members of the family. But these two cases are remarkably stunningly familiar.
And look, I mean, sort of my, the question I keep coming back to is when I say to the prosecutor, did they miss the part of our story where those people get caught and convicted and he just kind of shakes his hand and says, I, I think that Tracy thought that she could do it better than Donna Aleson. But there's also something where I've seen it before and I don't really wish to cast dispersions on mothers in law, but there are certain people who do not like whether it's father-in-law, mother-in-law, do not like the person who's marrying into the family. Sure. And that dislike will get to the point where something has to be done about that person. And I mean, you just see how it all developed.
Yeah, in that this family, right? In Matt's family, they have a lot in common, right? There are plenty of situations in which one or both families believe that this marriage between their children shouldn't have happened and should end. And that is going on all over the United States. And that is also where sometimes manipulation of children by their parents for their own ends happens, right?
Sure. You know, your mother and I have thought a lot about this and we think that you and so-and-so should not be together anymore. And I think that you are, this is a lost cause for you, son or daughter, and you know, you should get out. I think that goes all the time. You know, parents are trying to run their lives by remote control, run their lives of their kids.
But for it to go to murder, well, that's a little different. Yeah. That's something you don't see in a reach. It's a reach, yeah, right. I was fascinated also with Kate's behavior.
I wouldn't have imagined it, but her infidelities were kind of stunning. How long did it take after he was killed before she was out there? I mean, I mean, Matt wasn't even in the ground when she was going on her first date. I mean, first of all, there's no evidence that we know of that Matt Riselli was unfaithful to his wife during their marriage. That certainly didn't come out.
There is plenty of evidence that Kate was stepping out all the time on him as the years went by. And then, you know, right, after Mandy's shot to death in her mom's living room, right? And she has to see his body as she leaves the house, right? This is assuming that she has nothing to do with it, right? She's still going out on a date, like within a week.
I have to say that is a coldness that I'm, maybe I should be familiar with it, but I'm not. That's that's a new one on me, that kind of speed with which the behavior begins. Yeah. And you would think that she would be aware that maybe people might be keeping track of her activities. That's one thing that you sense that they sort of didn't think about was, you know, a murder investigation doesn't end the night the person is killed and the body taken away.
What Kate was thinking is sort of hard to fathom. I think she was recording that's her phone calls with Matt because she thought it was going to turn up in court someday as evidence in a divorce case. Why she kept those recordings? I don't understand. I mean, this, this was not an impossible plot to unravel.
I mean, the evidence was pretty much sitting there on their devices. And I would like to point out police did not get all those devices the first day. There was several days went by when those devices and all that, that damaging information was still in the, it was still the property of Tracy and Kate. Now, again, if you delete that stuff, a seasoned digital forensic examiner might be able to recover or at least reveal that it had something like that had been deleted. So I mean, there is that, but there, there clearly was a, a sort of disconnect from the evidence that existed to sort of Kate and Tracy believing, well, we're home free.
And even if we're not home free, Kevin's going to take the fall, not us. Well, that was fascinating how not only would Kevin take the fall, but maybe he'd kill himself afterwards and that was okay with the mother. They were sort of ready to sacrifice him. I mean, it, the sense you get from listening to them is that they saw Kevin as damaged an asset to be sort of used the way they wanted to without any concern for his welfare or future and essentially expendable. And you know, he's Tracy's son, just like Kate and Terrell and our, our, her children.
It's, it's, it's horrifying, frankly, to think about a mom thinking about her kids like that. But that is apparently where we are. Yeah, I guess so. Then that, that, that one call from jail that Kevin, you know, revealed that he was in part of the plot. Let me remind all viewers and listeners of something that is very widely known in, in criminal justice work, which is when you make a phone call, when you're incarcerated, you keys, I think might particularly want to pay attention to this, just because I, you know, right, there is a, a placard on the wall in nearly every correctional facility that I've ever seen that says essentially your phone call is not private.
It's being recorded and it's going to be listened to by other people, something to that effect. Like this is not, do not think of this as just private line to the outside. The only time you really have any privacy is when you're speaking with your attorney, but you're talking to anybody else in your family or anyone, your friends, they're listening. And I think Kevin thought that because he had already been acquitted of conspiracy, right, that he could then essentially confess to it, which is what he did. And you know, if he makes that call before the verdict, well, then that's evidence, it comes in, he gets convicted.
Right. The, the character I liked in addition to your young detective was a brother. Mark. We have two brothers, but yeah, Mark was the one that was primarily on the piece, both seem like fine people. There's something about Mark that really, the read and go down to your skin.
He's a, he's also, he's a very good guy. And I think, you know, as is frequently the case when this kind of thing happens, people are left with sadness and anger and regret. Cause, you know, he didn't spoken to his brother in a while because the Kate thing was so unpleasant. And he was like, you know, I just can't deal with this. When you, you know, I don't know that he said these words to Matt, but I think his, I think his feeling was when you finally deal with this cancer in your life, which is your wife, then we're going to have a relationship again.
And again, that is an understandable thing. You cannot fault anyone for wanting to protect themselves and their family and their kids from sort of the psychological damage of being exposed to somebody in your life that is sort of damaging to others, right? Exposing them to this other terrible relationship that's playing out in front of them. So I think he thought like, look, you know, when you get right with your life, I'll, I'll be back. And, and then, you know, Matt's gone.
And I think he's thinking it was, oh, you know, I should have called him. Well, I mean, I understand that. I don't think I want to change anything, but it's a, it's a, it's a very understandable reaction. Sure it is. And now he raises the children, which now now he's got man's kids.
And, you know, I mean, that's telling you what kind of person. Yeah, right. He is, right? Cause that, I mean, that more than whatever he did with that relationship with his brother in K, what stepping up now and raising man's kids, like that tells you who he is. You know, these, the, the, the great old expression that Murphy came up with.
It's not about the murder. It's about the marriage. It applies so well, but it is, it's shorthand. The, the murder is about so much more than just the marriage. It's about all kinds of, you know, psychiatric difficulties that too many people face in life.
You know, a guy on those homicide detective says that he can classify all murders into the motive is money, love or pride, right? I'm doing this for the insurance money or I'm doing this cause I don't love you anymore, but I do love this person and I want to be with them now or it's pride and this is pride. There's no financial windfall here for anybody with Matt Ristelli being killed. This is not about love. Kate was not in love with somebody else.
I kept waiting for the insurance payout that there was some, several million dollar policy or something. This appears to be about pride, power and control, which was sort of who Tracy was and she'd been for a long time, I think. We've talked about Tracy, but we also have more from her interview with police. The night Matt was killed. At this point, investigators are still trying to figure out what happened, but the officer already seems to think Tracy knows more than she is telling him.
So he's on to her. Let's listen. I am. So I'm shocked. I did his parents know.
I assume someone has had this point. I've only been here with you to be honest. So all that information I don't even know myself. So just to be like, can I kind of feel like you do know a little bit more than your background? Nope.
It was he appeared. I guess I'm more talking about with Kevin. With Kevin? Nope. No idea where he was.
Nope. Okay. Well again, honestly, it's the best policy. I don't know. I almost knew nothing.
I just wanted to come here and see if you did remember because being like I said, I know you were saying like a lot of I don't know. So I just wanted to see if you remembered anything else and talk it with a little bit, but nothing comes to mind at all. I interacted with with now for like maybe three seconds. And I didn't see Kevin and Matt went on the ground and by the time I got it, I don't even know. I didn't see anything.
All I heard was noise. What were the verses that you were hearing? The shots. There was no conversation, no confrontation at all. Not that hurt.
Okay. Honestly, it's the best policy. Yeah, not apparently in that family. Yeah. Fascinating to listen to her answering questions from the officers.
The soft spoken calm composed sort of demeanor. That sounds like a murder. Yeah. Doesn't sound like a murderer. No, she's got a whole act.
I mean, it's not hard to see why she sort of got away with things and was able to kind of talk her way out of trouble repeatedly. And it's a couple of things. One is it's sort of that persuasive gentle manner that she has, right? And she is smart. She is not a dumb person.
I mean, they made some dumb mistakes, but she's not dumb. No. Well, I can see why this tale of family dysfunction would be the season premiere. It's quite a story. Where does it, you know, among family stories you have covered?
How does this one rate? I would say right near the top. I mean, it is mind-boggling. Well, when we come back, let's have a look at some of the social media questions that we got from this episode. It starts with a handshake.
A word becomes an agreement. An agreement becomes a contract. A contract becomes bound by law. Today, Harvey, the AI platform designed specifically for legal work, is powering that next step. More than 200,000 lawyers and 80% of the AMLaw100 are building with Harvey, accelerating review, sharpening negotiations, and more.
Harvey, learn more at Harvey.ai. Harvey does not provide legal advice. Users should always independently review and verify any output from Harvey. At Capital One, we don't just use technology. We architect it.
Our teams have true end-to-end product ownership, shipping distributed systems that handle high concurrency at scale. No single-server bottlenecks engineered beyond legacy downtime, and operating right here in downtown Toronto. That's technology at Capital One. Search technology at Capital One Canada. Off the coast of Newfoundland, something lurks beneath the surface.
Below is a new six-episode thriller series. Fisherman Calvin Penny, played by Josh Hartnett, is already burdened by his father's mysterious death when a sea creature begins terrorizing his hometown, putting his son Wade, played by Charlie Heaton, and the rest of his family in danger. Partnering with a visiting marine researcher, Mackenzie Davis, Calvin must protect what's left of his family and uncover the area's long-bearing secrets. Watch below, streaming only on Netflix. Okay, now we're going to answer some of your questions and comments on social media.
First, we have an audio message from a date-line viewer who did not leave their name. Hmm. Oh, why? Okay, let's listen to that. Hi, I just watched the recent episode called The Family Plot, and I'm curious to know what flight or freeze spectrum is.
I've heard of the flight or response, but I'm not familiar with flight or freeze spectrum. And then also, there's so many questions that I had about this episode and comments, but one thing that I want to comment on that I'm going to appear was Josh McGlitt's talking to Katie and Kevin's father in encouraging him that there's so much more to life to live despite the tragedies that haven't folded. And I decry. I cried a little bit. Thank you.
It was a nice little moment that you had with him. Stan, yeah. I mean, first of all, you and I, like, we're accustomed to asking the questions in these interviews. Generally, we are not asked questions by the people we interview, and certainly we're not asked questions the way Stan asked me that question, which is like, you're kind of an expert on this. What's going to happen to me?
I've never heard that before. You being the investigative reporter, and you've seen stuff like this all the time, how am I supposed to move on from this? Does that make sense when I'm asking you? There's a myth out there that some legal proceeding can somehow turn the clock back to when your kids were not convicted murderers, and Matt was still alive. You will, because you have other children, figure out a way to go forward from this.
So I was definitely unprepared. I'm glad that I actually did answer that, so that made me very happy. That's sort of why I included it, because it was so unusual. Like, I've never had anything like that happen in all the years that they've asked me, you know, how am I going to deal with this over the years? And I know you know this, because you've seen all these people who've gone through this.
So I was glad that I was able to help him at all, because he's having a very tough time. I mean, those are his kids too. And he will, he will for some time. I mean, lots of us have been through this kind of thing, and it doesn't go away. It never goes away.
You just have to figure out what he's doing. The other part of her question is the, what Tracy describes as the, what does she say, the the fighter freeze? The flight or freeze? Yeah, in the psychological terms, it's frequently talked about the flight, fight, freeze or fawn syndrome. And it's all sort of, you know, responses that different people have from their sympathetic nervous systems to how they react to a particular trauma.
And so, you know, Tracy's saying, you know, when, when, when this trauma happened, and by the way, I don't think anybody believes this, when Tracy's saying, when the shots rang out, I froze. That's why I took so long to call 911. Again, this is one more thing that they clearly did not plan for. Other people are going to hear the shots. Other people are going to call 911.
The amount of time that you think you have, I think they were waiting to make sure that Matt was dead. That's what I think. I think they were waiting to make sure that he couldn't testify, that he couldn't give his side of the story. And then they put the knife in his hand, the wrong hand, unbelievably dumb. The wrong hand, yeah.
Right. Facing the wrong way in the wrong hand. And I think only then did they call 911, and they were pretty surprised. I think Tracy was pretty surprised to hear from the 911 operator. Yeah, we already know about it.
We're on our way. And then they were there like that because they'd already had a big lead time. Here's a question from two zero zero nine KKLA on Instagram. Interesting name. Does the grandfather, Kate's dad, have any contact with the kids?
He seemed to love Matt and knew his daughter and ex were trouble. The short answer is I don't know if he's having any contact with Matt's kids. I don't think there's a lot of contact between those two families at all. The caveat to that might be that Stan's not really a part of that family anymore and hasn't been so long time. So maybe he will.
But I'm actually unaware of any contact that he has with his grandchildren. At Bobby G62 said, I was wondering about the knife in his hand. Was it tested for DNA to see who all touched it? It was put there in my opinion. Yeah, it had a mix of DNA on it.
They did test it, but it didn't prove that it was Tracy's and it didn't prove that it was Kate's Marcia Barrett said this one was a tough watch. This poor man was set up so coldly by his own in laws. I do have a question. Did the police do gunshot residue tests on the mother, daughter and son? Just verify it was Kevin who actually pulled the trigger.
Well, no, because you know, Kevin like admitted to it. I mean, there wasn't any question about whether or not anybody else pulled the trigger. And also we don't know what happened in the moments after even if you even if you believe Tracy Kate and Kevin story, we don't. It's not clear what happened in the moments after he was shot. Like if you fire a gun in self defense and then hug your mom because this terrible thing just happened, you can transfer some of that gunshot residue to them, right?
So that wouldn't necessarily prove anything either way. It goes all over the nation. But no one no one denied that Kevin actually pulled the trigger. I mean, this wasn't about who shot Matt Rustelli. It was about the plot that got Matt Rustelli into that living room.
Well, now we have some comments at Spoonie Lupin, which I name I absolutely love said. Yeah. I don't think they're very good true crime fans. They wouldn't have made all those rookie mistakes have to agree. No argument.
At she buster 85 said poor Matt, he didn't deserve this. Well, I have to agree with that also. No one serves this. No. And then it's my gray life said this was such a great season premiere, Josh.
Take a bow and Lester. Oh my gosh, this is going to be a great season. I just know it. And then Keith, I can't wait to hear from you. Well, that may happen at some point.
But I I agree. This is going to be a great season. Are you going to see? I mean, 35 years, Josh, it's been a while. I mean, look, look, when you and I joined this program in 1995, I did not think to myself, oh, yeah, now you're set.
This is the this is this is it. You'll do this the rest of your career until you retire. I you know, nothing lasts 35 seasons in in TV. Yeah, it's very, very, very rare. And that is that's partly because of the people that you don't see on Dateline, the people behind the cameras and the editing equipment and our and our producers.
And more than part of it, Josh. Yeah. Yeah. And and all our researchers and the APs and all the people who fly the drones, all the stuff that you sort of don't see. And also, you know, hugely, I hope I'm pointing at you because I never know this comes out on camera.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Okay. All right. It's pointing at you. I'll do that.
But yeah, well, there are other people too. I mean, there's all the other people who have not like not only the other people, you know, Blaine and Andrea and Lester, but also all the people who have been Dateline course months over the years and who sort of helped us get where we are. But but like who we really need to think is you like listeners and viewers who that's why we're here about 35 years later. And so thank you, all of you. Yes, it was an unexpected gift.
And I'm very happy to have even if it involves spending more time. Any reasonable person would want to do with Josh Makowitz. I knew that was coming. I had to deliver some insult. It was kind of a lame one, though, don't you think?
It was good. It was right sort of in character. Well, that brings us to the end of our delightful program with Mr. Makowitz. And it's been nice to see you as always.
Well, it's very nice to see you. I saw you very briefly when we were on the Today Show together. And I don't see you enough in all the truthfulness, despite how incredibly mean to me you are all the time. I'm trying to overlook that. Yeah.
It's nice to see you, Josh. Nice to see you. Remember if you have any questions about this episode or any other episode or any question that you would like to ask us, you can reach out to us on social media at At Dateline NBC. You can also leave us a voicemail, which is 212-413-5252 for a chance to be featured right here. And let me just say, like the woman who did not leave her name, but recorded that message earlier, about how great I am.
Let me just say, talking about how great a job I did, that's going to get you on Talking Dateline. That's just a little insight, too. And you can also watch the video version of Talking Dateline on YouTube or on the NBC News app. Keith and I and Andrea and Lester and Blaine will see you Fridays on Dateline on NBC. Indeed, we will.
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