Taro Cards 2

In the dead of night, as people sleep, that is when the spirits creep. As the bell tolls three dark things take power, we like to call it the supernatural hour. Hey, welcome to the supernatural hour. I am your host, Raven.

And I am Chad. And we've got a bunch of other people coming on, but we've got some business to talk about, so we will get to that here in just a second. Okay, the business is brought to you by Castle PhotoArt. Go to Castle for all your photo needs.

We have an upcoming event. It's P.O.S.H. Nevada. It's going to be August 12th.

It's available on Eventbrite. It's available from events, paranormal.com events. So go out and get your tickets now. This is a long drive.

You need to get hotel rooms. And just so that we're clear, the ticket is for the ghost hunt, rooms, food, gas money, travel. That is you. I would love to be able to pay for it, but if we do that, we're going to need a heck of a lot more patrons.

So just making sure we're all on the same page. And we already have sold a few tickets, so we're pretty excited about that. And P.O.S. Some people might be going P.O.S.

But it is a really cool little old mining town. When we went there, it was just kind of a day trip because I was thinking it was going to be literally ruins. It's actually a working functioning town. And I was sad that we weren't staying the night there and that we couldn't spend more time there.

So I'm really excited to go back. And that's one of the reasons we're staying the night there. Yeah, because I said so. OK.

The other thing we want to talk about a little bit is our upcoming Summer Supernatural Insiders event. We've got that planned. We've actually got that scheduled. It's going to be in the later part of August.

We'll give more details to the insiders as that comes about. But if you're interested in joining us on our Supernatural Insiders Summer event, which is always fabulous, go out and become a patron. Yeah, we've got it booked. We provide the main dish and the rest of it is potluck.

You've heard us rave about it probably more than you care to hear us rave about it, but it's always been fantastic. Yeah, and I think you can get there by patreon.com slash Supernatural. And it's going to be fun. OK.

The venue that we have booked is dark. So it'll be a fun event. That being said, we did have another great event just last week. Yeah, we went to Camp Floyd.

I have never been there ever with any group. And it's the first time that Advanced Paranormal has been there. And I thought it was really cool. Yeah, we had a really good turnout.

We had a lot of people come. It was not a stormy stormy evening, but a stormy evening. So there seemed to be a lot of activity going on. Yeah, so we had four different venues.

I mean, it was one venue, but we had it broken up into four different sections. We just kind of rotated through. And a couple of them were quite quiet, but a couple of them were very active, which is kind of par for the course with ghost hunting. For me and my group, the most active, I think, was the commissary.

We went in. We just kind of sat down. There's some benches there. And we just had our stuff out.

And we were getting some interaction with the spirit that was a native. And they were actually very chatty. And then this commissary is the only original building to the camp. Was that correct?

That's correct. I mean, the stagecoach chain is very, very old. And it was kind of contemporary, but just slightly thereafter, it served as a pony express stop and everything else. Right.

And we're talking the 1860s. Yeah, everything we investigated was old, but the commissary was the only one original to when it was camp flight. And so it's old. And so we're sitting there.

And I kind of heard a creek off to my left. And my brain said, oh, it's an old building that's going to be a little windy. But then the creek moved from my left, like if I'm looking at nine o'clock, it moved to ten o'clock, and then eleven o'clock, and twelve o'clock. And I'm thinking, I don't know, creeks don't move like that.

And about the time I was kind of processing thinking, oh, that sounds like something walking. A couple of people in my group says, do you hear that? It sounds like someone's walking. I thought, yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking.

So then we abandoned where we were. Went back to where things were walking. And actually it was a demonic spirit that decided to make its presence known. So that was kind of fun.

Yeah. I heard some good reports from the district school. And I heard hit and miss on that. Some of the group said it was pretty active.

Another group said it wasn't so much. Right. And you're going to get different spirits. And then we're reacting to different people.

Maybe spirits get tired of talking and close down because when we got there for me, for my group, that was the second to the last. That was our third stop. And we got a little bit of stuff, but it wasn't exactly the other places. And then when we got to the cemetery, which was our last stop, we didn't get much at all out there.

And then the sprinklers came on, so that kind of dampened the mood. Yeah, I can see how that went. So, but the first two were very active. There was some good activity that was reported to me at stagecoaching.

And that was kind of neat. There was an area where Mark Twain stayed there at one point in time. And also there was a guy that was cleaning his gun and there was bullet holes through the wall that are still there from his gun going off. Yeah, it goes through two walls, which is pretty impressive.

And the little black there said the person had been in that bedroom had just laid down like two or three minutes earlier could have been shot by the shotgun blast. Wow, I didn't read that. I need to go back. I don't think I've ever even been there just to be there.

Just from the history part. Yeah. Very neat place to go. I recommend it either for ghost 19 or just for learning more about history.

It's really interesting in the 1850s, early 1860s when it was there, it was the largest military camp in the United States. Yeah, they had when they say 2500 soldiers from there, which doesn't sound like much now, but at the time that was a pretty hefty force. So that's what's going on with our things, no residential? Is that correct?

No, not right now. This is that time of year where people start going outside and they forget that their chairs spin around in their house and stuff like that. Okay. So that's it for the business and the events and residential.

I'm looking forward to this episode. It's going to be fun. Okay. So like we mentioned earlier, we've got some guests with us.

Do you want me to introduce them or do you want to introduce them? Yeah, go ahead. Okay. So we have Whitney and Shelby.

Hello. Hey. And they are our tarot experts. Something like that.

You're more expert than we are. If you've listened to us for any length of time, we did an episode on tarot. It's been a while. At least.

It's been a couple of years. Yeah. 18 months. Two years ago.

But the thing about when we did tarot, it was our extensive couple hours of research on the internet, giving you a very, very brief overview and maybe some of our opinions and some of our suppositions. But Whitney and Shelby, they know their stuff. So I just thought the artwork was cool. Absolutely.

They are work. That's kind of where I'm at too, to be honest with you. Shelby's more of the reader than I am. Yeah.

I do think you're working. I do. So I'm going to open it up to you guys. What kind of got you into tarot?

Whitney, let's start with you. Me? Yes. Sorry.

She'll be on me. She'll be on me into tarot. She bought me my first deck. She taught me how to read.

She taught me how to show me the app download. So there's tarot apps that people can get? Yeah. There's some really useful apps out there that you can record what cards you've drawn and it'll just kind of be the statistics about what you draw over longer periods of time or it'll help with other definitions pretty far.

Maybe a little lessons or even play through. There's a lot of useful stuff out there like that. You said that Whitney gave you the first deck. Is that correct?

Shelby gave Whitney the first per person. Now my understanding with tarot cards is they're supposed to be given and not just going out and purchase. Is that true? For the first one, that is the superstition.

It's like your lightsaber. You got to kind of earn it or somebody. Yeah, yeah. It's gifted to you.

Yeah. Or whatever superstition reason, that is the rule. Your first tarot deck has to be a gift to you. It's reading the way before I got an actual tarot deck.

My sister eventually bought me one of the hack percutes. So let's say you really want to get into tarot but no one gives you a set. Is there something you can do to... Can you ask someone to gift you a set?

Does that take away the mystique behind it? No. I mean, in my opinion, you're trying to just go buy something that you're drawn to. Whatever works.

You can't ask. You can ask my sister. We were at an occult shop. I was like, I want this tarot deck but I can't buy it for myself and so she bought it for me.

But I think that you're perfectly fine food. Just go get your own and you don't have somebody able to get you on as long as you're drawing food with that particular deck. Now you mentioned the word occult there. And a lot of people kind of freak out when they hear the word occult.

And DACA on the podcast has talked to us a little bit about occult. The word occult in its root is used a lot in medical. And it means hidden. It doesn't mean evil.

And so, you know, when people say things are of the occult, it doesn't mean they're evil or bad. It just means they're hidden. It's an optical term too. If something is, you know, occulted, something is passed in front of it and just blocked it.

She's an astronomy, right? Exactly. A surrounding physics. So I just wanted to make sure that people understand that when we say a cult, that does not mean evil.

Yeah, it does not mean I mean occult. Right. I think a lot of people hear a cult and they think, oh, double worshipping and sacrifice under the moon and bad and then, no, it's not. Right, right.

And you know, the same stores go by a million different names, right? Like which shops or Christmas shops or coffee shops, like some of them try to sound less scary both. Right. I've heard like mystical shops.

But they're all the same thing. Yeah. And I think too that anything you do, regardless what it is, is going to take on whatever energy you put into it. Exactly.

Yeah, if you're going to put negative energy into anything, it's going to, I mean, even religion, even if you're the hardest core Christian religion, you can think of if you put negative energy into it, you're going to get a negative outcome. Completely agree. Completely agree. And that's kind of what I think that if you want to get into peril and you can't get squidgy.

If you want for whatever reason or don't want to ask somebody, again, as long as you're drawn to it, you feel that positive energy connection with the deck that you're looking at, there would be a problem that I would proceed. Awesome. So is for both of you, and I want both of you to answer this question, how many decks do you have roughly and of those decks, they're smiling, which scares me. They're going to say like a thousand.

And of after you tell us how many decks you have, do you have one that's a favorite or you know, are there a handful that you know, call to you for different reasons? Talk to us. Well, I've got four. My favorite one's probably the one that she gave me, the first one that I got.

Four is not a scary number. No. I counted actually right before I left because I was like, how do you do I have nothing? And I have eight parodex and five oracle decks.

What's the difference? Oracle decks don't use like the major arcane that they may have like, they just have like different cards sets that are more like inspirational or like guidance. Okay, so I'm the techy guy here. One of the techy guys here along with Doc and I'd like to know how these things work.

So I mean, what can you break that down the major arcane and all these other houses and whatever. As for your question. So I wanted to explain first that I'm like in no way an expert like maybe half the cards I could like give a big idea of what they mean off the top of my head. A lot of times they're dependent on the reading.

The major arcane, well, all of the parts there associated with elements and suits kind of like playing cards. So you have your major arcane are like characters, effectively. They are like timeline progression. It's like a story beginning with the fool who is like his naive character who is taking his first steps out into the world.

He typically is represented as being about to walk off a ledge because that represents the naive. I would draw that a lot. Yeah, she would. You had a bad run lately.

Oh, yeah. So it starts at the fool and then you kind of get to see that progression in the meanings of the cards. It goes on to the magician next where he has become more familiar with the world and is excited to use all of the different elements. All of the cards are very elemental.

They're associated with four major elements, air, water, fire, and earth. And they're also associated similarly with astrology along those same lines. So each of the major arcane are represent different planets astrology wise or different signs, spisper constellations, specifically. There's a card called the wheel of fortune.

Yeah. That was fun. They're dating game card. I'm sorry.

That is your reverent. The Gom Show. So if someone is really into astrology and knows astrology, would they be able to get into terrible alates here? I mean, do a lot of those concepts crossover in my opinion.

Yes. But every reader is different. I've had readings done where there's no astrology involved at all. And I personally do readings.

I always combine like that after a lot of people elements into like my interpretation. But I know. Yeah. I'm talking bad.

Yeah. At least I try to. And a lot of times though, I do. I'm not going to ask upfront what their like astrological chart looks like because I like to kind of disperse skepticism.

So I like to kind of personally leave it at no information given to me unless they really want to. Right. Because and for me, if I were and I haven't I haven't ever had a tarot reading, not for any reason, I just haven't. Yeah.

But I would think it would mean more if I didn't give information and it came from the reading and I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, to have it verified. Right. You know what shocked me is this isn't like a five minute deal, right? He's been going for like, yeah, hours.

Yeah, hours. Yeah. And that's what blew me away. It's not like something you can go into a circus tent and you're out in five minutes.

Right. Right. And there is a lot of community does do like daily polls where they will draw like a single part every day or so or when they have a question. And obviously that will be great.

But once ratings range from like three to eight different cards, yeah, that's almost like getting a daily affirmation every day, you know. So what the Oracle decks were like? I see. They're more like an average.

More positive. Yeah. Okay. So does the length of the reading depend on how much information you want?

I mean, could you and this is going to be silly but just work with me. Would you set up a circus tent and run through a real basic reading for 15 minutes, but then do a longer, you know, three hour one for someone that paid you more and had the time? Or is there a minimum where it's like, no, it really needs to be at least an hour? You could certainly do it quickly.

It's going to be less informative, but you definitely you could get through a quick 15 minute. If you're just doing one or two parts, maybe three, you could just skim over things. Just give some, you know, you start with a big picture and the longer you go, the more you narrow it down is that the way it works. Basically, yeah.

You filter it and refine it. So that basic one might be like, you're going to have a great day tomorrow and a longer one might go into more the wise in the house. You will take a long seavoeage. I think you think like the Celtic cross one, like there's like different types of like reading, you do different threads for like different purposes.

And there's one called the Celtic cross. I don't remember what, isn't it just for like a more comprehensive answer to a question, basically? Yeah. And it's long.

It's complicated. Yeah. There are, I don't know, most of the most paradox that you buy will come with instruction in the booklets that provide like sample spreads and what they mean and explain high level with the cards mean. But it's kind of up to both the reader and the person getting the thorough reading to you dive into the interpretation.

Okay. So here comes, that actually brings up another question. Let's say that someone goes in for a tarot reading and they're not really into it. You know, as their friend is like, go, go, go.

If a person is really closed off to the idea, does that affect the reader at all? In my experience, no, I've had some fun with people that are very skeptical about it and coming out spot on with and surprising them and shocking them. Awesome. They were less skeptical after the reading.

What was that? They were less skeptical after the reading. Oh, wait. I've never had anyone walk away like skeptical afterwards.

Yeah. I've seen her make grown men cry. Oh, wow. Most people cry.

Yeah. Most people cry. If you get into it, if you're not doing just a quick, like, if you're not doing just a quick reading, if you really get into the nitty-gritty, it really hits people in the bones sometimes. I'm out.

Sorry. I kind of spaced off for just a second because I don't know if you saw this, but I saw an orb just fly straight up out of the top of Whitney's head. No. It was my brain leaving my body.

And here I am, like researching online and miss it. Yeah. That reminds me of when we saw those orbs in my office on the Marco Polo. Do you remember those?

Yes. A year and a half ago? Yes. Sometimes we get lucky.

If you're listening, I don't believe in orbs unless I see it myself because too many of them can be, you know, reflections and optical things, but I just saw that one and that was kind of cool. Anyway, sorry. Back to tarot. You're making grown men cry.

I'm making grown men cry. Yeah. It's one of my favorite hobbies. It doesn't matter the method.

Yeah. But you know you're touching them. You know that you're, I don't want to say hit a nerve, but you know that you're saying something that speaks to them and that's kind of cool. You're getting proud.

Right. Exactly. And you know, the thing with tarot in my opinion, and some people will disagree with this. A lot of people use it as a means of divination or future telling, fortune telling, whatever.

It can be in my opinion, guidance for the future and it can lay out like what your outcome may look like if you make particular decisions. But ultimately it's going to focus on a scenario that's currently taking up your mental space and currently troubling you and you're kind of split on decisions. But really it's just a matter of, like I said, so the major, they're telling a story effectively. It's a journey all through life.

And so these cards just kind of, they speak the situations that are occurring in ongoing. The people have confusion and pain and fear about and it helps reframe it from a third party perspective or from a non-human perspective even, right? As if you're reading a book about your life and what may or may not happen depending on what you do and it just helps people make decisions. Yeah.

Almost like counseling because you just need to almost see it from a different perspective and have someone else from the outside looking in saying, hey, have you thought about this or have you thought about that? Exactly. And it helps you with clarity and remove distractions. Can you keep her from therapy?

What else is getting? Can you get a good reading with just a deck without an oracle deck in addition to it? Yeah, oracle deck is just a separate fun little thing. I don't have as much experience with them.

I've never actually, I've only about one of them by the other four were all given to me and I play with them here and there but I'm not just familiar with them. The expansion set. Yeah. Yeah.

Those ones are all very different. Some are all about the moon phases and so then it'll have some nice little quote that's as we believe in yourself today or something. But that's, I prefer a tarot with the oracle deck, definitely, but oracles. So what do you have?

Are they all roughly the same as artwork? Do you have like any weird ones like garbage pail tarot cards or? I want to see the Simpsons. Yeah, because we've seen a few of those online before and those look good.

They got to do the whole deck. My boyfriend's mom bought tarot decks for Christmas this year and she bought him a Disney billing space arrow deck. Oh, that would be fun. Yeah.

Wow. When you have, oh, I'm sorry. Well, I have a cat tarot deck that Jessica bought me. That's fun.

Cats. Yeah. No, you have a cow and two and three cat decks now because my boyfriend's mom also bought me a cat deck. My sister bought me a cat deck and then we have the one from La.

Oh, yeah. I can't remember these girls watching nothing but nonstop cat videos when they were little and growing up. Okay. I was just going to ask that you've been gifted so many cat decks.

I was going to ask if there was a cat connection in there somehow. You know, that's a good question. I mean, I think cats are just kind of always associated with mystic. Whether you want to call it magic, whether you want to call it like supernatural cats always, you know, they've always been associated with like witches and other things like that.

So it seems like it's a common theme for tarot decks, but they do tend to be a little silly or they're not particularly serious artwork usually. If I were an artist and I made a tarot deck, I think I would put little hidden pictures in the tarot cards. Are there any decks like that? Yeah, that's it.

So tarot, the original tarot art is what most. So even if you make your own tarot deck or however many you have, they will all be based upon one of the original basic 1600s, early 1900s artwork and have their own interpretation of it. So usually they're based on what's called the writer weight snitch artwork. So that'll have, for example, when I was talking about the fool looking very happy about to walk off the ledge, you'll see that element even if it's a cat deck, even if it's a deck with no humanoid figures in it at all.

Like I have a deck that's completely gender neutral, has no humans in it. It's got hands and stuff, but the art will still be representative or based on not original writer weight snitch artwork. And so there's a lot of little hidden things. And interpreting the art, in my opinion, is like between that and the astrology of Barrow, those are the two most important things for me, personally as a reader, to say what do you see in this art, what's standing out to you art-wise?

Because you may see different colors or different things in the background that stand out and those might be more relevant to your situation. You know, and I'm going to go off on a tangent just a little bit, but it actually deals with that. And I was married to my ex. We actually went and got counseling.

And the lady that I went to, she was really good, she took me in this room, and in this room there was just shelves, rows and rows of bookcases, but they didn't have books on it, they just had different things. You know, like a little basket of shells and a little basket of figurines and a little basket, I mean, just anything you could think of. And she gave me a basket and she said, I mean, she told me nothing except just get some things that speak to you. And I was like, all right.

So I just kind of went around and got some things that spoke to me. And then she brought in, basically, I think it was a litter box. And it had sand in it. And she gave me a picture of water.

And she said, take the things that you have picked off of these shelves. And here's some water if you need to shake the sand. And she said, just create. And I was like, all right.

And I'm thinking this is dumb. And so I did. And I made it. You got to it before the cat did, right?

Yes, I did. So I did my thing. I poured water in the litter box and I moved some sand around and I put my little things in there. And it was amazing.

She came in and she looked at it. She probably looked at it for five minutes, but she told me things about myself that I think deep down I knew. And she said, you know, you're subconscious really picks things out. And she told me these things.

I'm like, holy cow. And I didn't even, it wasn't like, oh, I'm going to put this here because it means this. And I'm going to put this here because it means that. I just, I just, I don't know what I'm doing.

I'm going to put crap here. And so when you said that, you know, what do you see in this? What do you, you know, the subconscious is going to come out and what they say is going to give you, you know, some insights to, you know, what they're thinking and you're going to be able to read those cards better. It's like a horse horse shark nest.

Yeah, that's what I was just going to comment on. It's very much that way that people will see in the horse shark tests different things, you know, different people see different things and draw different meanings out of, you know, this blobby shape. Exactly. Yeah.

Exactly. Wow. So things just, they speak to us and just based on the way we are. Yeah.

What we're receptive to. And on that note, I mean, when I'm reading with one of my eight parodex, I was typically asked to guess to choose like lay them all out and pick the one things and speak to them. And they have a hard time between the three cat deaths. Yeah.

So yeah, I think that energy is important to have something that they are going to connect to from the gecko before you start going towards out. Well, I wanted to go back to the artwork really quick. One of my youngest daughter wanted her room space and we didn't really want to do the primary color black with planet space. We wanted it to be lighter colored and a little teenage girly.

And as we got looking at things, kind of what she gravitated towards and what, you know, the color she wanted. Her room was more kind of terroish, you know, kind of the terro celestial artwork. I love that. Yeah.

Because there's, I discovered something. You go on Amazon, we spent literal hours on Amazon. There's no such thing as just past no planets. You either do kind of the terro, celestial, misticky look, or you do black space with.

The scientific look. The scientific look. But no, her room looks like you. Yeah, I believe it.

That's not adorable. We can talk on this as long as we want it. We can break it into two episodes. It all depends on how much you guys have to say because this is fascinating.

Yeah. And you're like, yeah, I'm not an expert, but holy cow. Shut up. It's a lot of opinions.

This is awesome. It's very like person-dependent. It's a different experience to everybody. You look first time I had my favorite red.

I just wandered into an equal shop. I don't know if you're from here. Oh, yeah. But yeah.

Didn't you have some trainings there? No, I've been there a couple times to buy stuff. And then they had a paracorn there when you're. Okay, I remember the paracorn there was.

It was fascinating. It was maybe 1920 and I had never had my favorite before or touched them. I just felt like doing a paid 40 bucks went to the back room with a lady who's name. I believe with Maria.

And she was very mystical thing. It was very miss feeling. And I still, ten years later, remember a lot of that conversation and what I was struggling with at the time. And I still see how it applies to date.

Like I recall her drawing parts that were relevant to like, I was probably the emperor. But there was a man that I could trust in my life. And I spent a lot of time trying to decipher that. And ultimately I was kind of referring to my stepdad now.

At the time of this thing, maybe somebody that I was seeing. I don't know. I just still remember it, but it's obviously. It's an important time in your life.

It was about, in my main issue, had been along the short version lines. I was about 19. I was living at home still. I was having a lot of problems with my parents, but I wanted to go to school.

And so it was split between do I pay for school or do I have a voucher for an apartment? Because I can't stand this relationship right now. And so the majority of the reading helped console me about my relationship with my parents and about my relationship with money. Told me I needed to get out of there from my interpretation of theirs.

I guess if I wanted to maintain a good relationship with my parents, it couldn't be around them. Day in day out and I needed to get out and read your cards. And the pentables just kind of affirmed that the money it was going to be in on, it was going to be okay. I wasn't able to go to school yet, but a couple years later I ended up working somewhere where I paid for my school.

So it was just interesting thinking back on that. And now I probably would have stayed at home in film. My relationship with my parents blew up. I did not have that reading.

Right. I just was able to help you clarify things a little bit and make some decisions. That's awesome. When you had any readings or been at any readings that really just kind of stood out to you.

Yeah, when we were camping for my birthday and Shelby gave me a reading and I really needed to dump my boyfriend at the time. And basically the reading was very dump your boyfriend. And it was kind of embarrassing. It was kind of funny because he was there and all the boys were kind of cringing at us and all the girls were like, oh my God, yes.

We could have done this with after reading. Exactly. That was my most memorable reading. But I tried to, it was very validating.

It wasn't just dump your boyfriend. It was very stuff too, but it was very validating. And then I cried. That's awesome.

I think validating is an excellent word for how a lot of people walk away from it. Very validated feeling more confident in one decision or in a feeling that they had conflict about. And it comes out and says, you're feeling this right now and we're feeling this big to this. This is what you can do.

But it validates all of that conflict. So, right? Okay. So I just want to say before we go too much further, I want to call everyone's attention to all the work that Chad puts into these podcasts on the board editing, is producing the whole thing a lot of work.

Thank you, sir. You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having us, by the way.

This is awesome. What are all these wand cards? The Ace of Wands, the Two of Wands, Three of Wands? Yeah.

So the wand represents the element of fire. So the different numbers, each suite or suit, I mean, also is a storyline. It's a single character going through different moments in life, basically. But the wand represents fire, it represents energy, creativity, your motivation.

And then you buy tentacles, which represents earth as the element and represents more tangible or things like money is a major thing that it represents for just like things that you own. Oh, I see. Yeah, I think the three points of pencils. Same.

Materialistic story art, maybe. Exactly. And then you have your cups, which represents water, which represents emotion, essentially, like your internal emotions. How to reconcile those or understand those and then you have your soul, which represents air, which is like your communication, your mental clarity.

And yeah, so those are the four. Those cards usually mean like some birds. Yeah. So is there a correlation between the suits in a tarot deck and the suits in a plane, you know, a face deck playing cards?

Yeah, there's a lot of different, you basically can do tarot readings with just a standard card deck. And it won't be like as efficient or effective in the sense that it doesn't have the major arcana cards in it. But the face cards of the suits and on the Joker usually represents at least the pool. So you can read with basic cards and then there are several several other tarot sets that have just evolved over the years because it began around the 15th, 16th century spread throughout Europe and it's kind of interpreted differently.

And so there are a handful of decks. And another common one, I say, I'd say the second one's common one is the Thoth deck, H-O-T-H. And it's pretty similar, but it's got a couple extra cards, there are a couple changes. I'm not very familiar with any of the other ones honestly.

Interesting. Yeah, I was just thinking about that from the face cards in a regular deck of playing cards. Yeah. And I've seen some things about that.

The different face cards, the kings represent individual, specific individual kings. And there's a meaning, I mean, and I don't remember the specifics, but like one of them doesn't have a mustache and represent someone else. It's the suicide king with a sword in the head. And there's some very interesting things about the playing cards and the things there and the meanings behind those that a lot of people don't even look at or think about.

Right. And when tarot, you get to the cards and the meaning on a lot of those, you think about it. I mean, death. Yeah, that's pretty in your face, isn't it?

Yeah. There's things that really jump out at you. You know, but there's a lot of misconceptions with the main director, you know, like death is actually one of the best cards you could draw. As scary as it seems.

And it does represent fear, but it's not you dying necessarily, right? Doesn't it? Can't it mean like an end to something? I mean, isn't it?

Exactly. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. Exactly. It's the end of something bad, quickly, and it's a hard ending for you is what it represents.

But you have that over there. What is it that follows, reverence and the devil? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So death is actually a pretty good card to pull. So are those cards, are those cards? I don't have a tarot deck in front of me.

It's been a long time since I've seen one or you're used to. Are those cards part of the suits or are they independent of the suits? They are independent. So I believe there's 21 major acting of arts, but yeah, they're separate from the suits.

They in the order of the deck, they come first and then it goes into the different suits after you pass through to all of the major. Yeah. They're just interesting. You'll usually at least pull one or two of them because they're such a large chunk of the tarot deck.

They're like, especially related to the serology. And yeah, there's a lot of misconception about what some of them do. Like a lot of people think that pulling the lovers is a good thing. And some people might disagree, but the lovers are a bad card.

Like a representative of like a very toxic relationship that you're changing to and check it out. Yeah, I was just going to say it could be that you know, you've got this love of this bad habit. Yeah, it typically will have like a representation of the devil like chaining two people together and they don't look particularly happy. But if you don't know much about tarot and you're looking for love advice, you get the lovers card.

I can't get the idea. Okay. So the death card is actually kind of good. The lover card is actually kind of bad.

Tell us about the devil card because that to me sounds like it would be bad. Is it actually good? It's a little chaotic. The devil card, ironically, is the so I track readings that I do for myself or that other people do for me and the devil card is the part that I personally have drawn it the most for all of my personal reading.

So it's kind of strange, but it can represent like carelessness, recklessness, immaturity, things along those lines, but it also represents like a place in playfulness. But it's just it's chaotic. It's not people. It might be a little irresponsible, but it might be telling you that your priorities are out of order, you know.

Okay, no, that's interesting because I would think I had a reading on someone pulled a double card. I'm like, I'm going to hell. The worst card you can pull is the tower. Yep.

The tower is the worst card you can pull. It's literally representative of the world falling apart around you. You have this tower crumpling and falling in the middle of a storm lightning. Yeah, you're falling off of it and your locks complete chaos in a negative way, not in a fun way like with the devil.

It's interesting. The tower would be worse than the devil. But I get it. Yeah, the way you play.

The devil's tower. And then, you know, there's things like a lot of the sword cards like Whitney said are really bad. Just really oopey hit you right in the feelings because they're just mean to them. This sort of cards.

But like for the lovers, for example, a lot of people think that it's going to represent some kind of perfect relationship. But what you're really looking for if you want a card that represents a positive perfect relationship is going to be like the two of cups. That's a stable emotional connection between people is what that one's going to represent. And that's the real lovers card in a sense that people are looking for it.

So you said something that I found interesting to say you do readings on yourself. And I'm not doubting your abilities. So don't read that into this. I'm just thinking of if I were to give myself a reading, I would probably be like, oh look, all these good cards.

This is a good card. And this is a good, I mean, is it hard to do your own reading? It's not ideal for me. It's not as fun in a way because you don't get the perspective from the story telling of the cards, but you don't get the perspective and energy input by a reader other than yourself.

Typically with readings, they will say that anybody in their room and introduce to the energy and the cards that are going to be pulled. And people on standby are just watching. They may not be contributing as much energy, but the more people you have around, the more likely you're going to be to pull a storyline that kind of applies to everybody. So doing it by yourself just isn't as fun.

I don't know what you think of me. I kind of prefer to just do my own readings because I like that it's kind of unaffected by other energies. And I don't know, I just feel like for me, more accurate. If you definitely can be more accurate to do it on yourself.

You know what you're going through and what you're looking at. Whereas if you're reading for somebody else, you go into the line. I would think that if you pulled the cards by yourself, you might get a more accurate card pull, but other people might, with their energies, might help you interpret them better. Yeah, I mean, that's just my opinion.

They'll provide the alternative perspective that you're kind of looking for with Arrow. And I would be afraid if I read for myself, I would just lie to myself because I wouldn't want anything bad. I wouldn't want anything scary. I'd be like, oh, look, I'm going to get a million dollars in the best job.

I just always end up being like, you know, telling me things I already know that I'm having a hard time, like, really accepting. But, you know, the cards are usually like, you know what you have to do. You can't lie to yourself even if you're reading for yourself. It'll call you out, right?

Like you'll pull cards that'll say, like, shut up, you know, like, you know what you need to do with it. It'll be like, it'll be more directive and some will say, some will just be like, stop asking, yes or no. Like, you know the answer. Just do it.

Yeah, I'd be like, oh, look, the tower, that means I'm going to have a class at the top of the University of Utah. And I'm going to get an A because it's the tower, it's really tall. And if you put that on the bottom, it would be a lot. And another aspect that affects reading today, we haven't touched on is reversals.

So, some readers don't believe in reversals, I guess you could say, or don't utilize some, but effectively it's when you pull a card and it comes out upside down. When you put the card over and it's upside down, it's got a different meaning in theory than the right side up meaning. They're very similar, but they might be, the reversals are typically more negative, but if you pull a really negative card and it's a reverse, you know, you said reverse old and I went right to uno. So, I mean, is it a true reversal?

So if you pull the tower and it's upside down, would it be like, normally this is bad, but because it's upside down, it's actually really good? So, sometimes, yeah, like the way I like to try to interpret it is, so you may be looking at the opposite of what the up-right meaning is, or you may be looking at an emphasis on the up-right meaning. And so, you can pull it and it might say something really good is happening, it can pull it and it might emphasize the negativity of the card. It's not only a full tower, but your tower is about eight feet taller than this tower, so it supersonks.

And I mean, if you don't mind, I'll check this little bit, if I can see what tower reverse is. Because, you know, don't guide you, but you can interpret it yourself, you don't need these necessarily, but I swear to the point, this one will say that if you pull the tower reverse, it will be, you've avoided disaster, delayed suffering, or you have fear. Whereas the tower upright would be a people, broken-fried disaster in front of the county. So, the reverse will be very positive enough.

That's intuitively backwards. Wow. So, it really depends, though, on this situation. And it's up to you and the person that you're waiting for to decide, okay, are we emphasizing the reverse will, are we ignoring it, or are we considering it to be like an opposite?

It's really situational. So, you said at the beginning of the podcast that there are apps, let's say someone is like, you know what, I really don't want to buy any and do it myself. I don't want to go to anybody. That's the app I use primarily, and that's the stack right there.

Oh, we're just, we got on the computer here, there's the exact same deck that she brought with us tonight, that's cool. But if someone wanted to do an initial reading and say, I wanted to see if this other apps would do readings for you. Yeah, I don't think that's as valid, but it certainly does. Is it because a computer can't really read your energies?

That's what I feel like. I feel like if you're, I feel like it's random, if you're using software to do it, as opposed to touching a physically feeling game. That makes sense. So, can it apply?

Sure, you can still look at it and find a way to apply it to your situation if you're doing some randomised digital reading. But I don't think that it's as valid or as true to the heart as any person physically. Yeah, that speaks to me. I just had another question.

Oh, so when you do a reading, was there a certain amount of cards you need to draw or does it just kind of depend on how much information you want? Depends on how tired I am. You can do one card, you can do ten cards, you can go for hours, you can just be really quick, daily yes or no. So if I had a deck and I said, you know what, I'm walking out the door, I'm going to just pull one card and see what it says.

And you can just kind of go, all right, maybe I need to focus on this card today. Right, exactly. That's what a lot of people do. And as far as like standardized readings, I'd say the most standard is just a three card reading.

There are a couple different names remaining for it, but you know, it is, you pull three cards and like the first one might be the situation, the middle one, the action, the third one, the outcome. Or you can have past, for the future, or you can have my experience. Is that just the intention you put into it? Yeah, but in my experience, those kind of all melt together.

So there's not, you can ask someone to pick which of the three cards style they want. But you're getting it all three regardless. Does that make sense? I was like, what are you guys doing?

I'm like, oh, sorry. We're taking so many. Yeah, I'll listen to everyone who's like, looking off into space and making these signs. I was like, wow, I'm going to see.

So three cards is standard and that can still take hours. It can be fairly fast. They're just like, okay, move on. It depends on how much you talk about it and how much you guys.

Yeah, like if I'm reading all really close, like, what do you see here? And I'll try and get into the astrology that if I have that information available about the person. And I'll just keep asking after we move on from whatever we're discussing. Is there anything else that comes to mind?

Is there anything else that you see here? Is there anything else that comes out? And so those conversations can be an hour on just talking about one card before you move on. So let's say you pull three and you're talking about them, but it just feels like something's missing.

You can pull a fourth card and add and go, you know, let's pull one more and see if that adds some clarity to. Yeah, clarifying card pulls are really common thing. Some readers don't do it. I do.

If the person wants it, you know. And is there a limit? I mean, I think it would be ridiculous to turn over every card because that defeats the purpose, right? Right.

Yeah, if you get every card, you're going to get a bunch irrelevant stuff. Right. But if you pull clarifying cards, I mean, you only really need a couple of, like, in theory, you can pull as many as you want until you have complete clarity. But, you know, if your first card is saying something more that you build buys more vaguely and you want more specifics and you can pull a second one and maybe a third one.