Tech Truth: Agile Evolution & the Future of SW Engineering • Martin Fowler & Kent Beck

This conversation was recorded at GOTO Copenhagen 2025.https://gotocph.comMartin Fowler - Pioneer of Various Topics around Object-Oriented Technology & Agile MethodsKent Beck - Software Engineer & Creator of Extreme ProgrammingRESOURCESMartinhttps://x.com/martinfowlerhttps://www.martinfowler.comhttps://toot.thoughtworks.com/@mfowlerhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/martin-fowler-comKenthttps://bsky.app/profile/kentbeck.bsky.socialhttps://www.kentbeck.comhttps://github.com/KentBeckhttps://twitter.com/KentBeckhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/kentbeckhttps://tidyfirst.substack.com/aboutDESCRIPTIONMartin Fowler and Kent Beck — two of the authors of the Agile Manifesto and perhaps the most influential duo in software engineering history — reunite for an unscripted conversation spanning thirty years of friendship, craft, and the relentless pace of change. They discuss how AI ("the Genie") has become a genuine part of both their workflows: Kent uses it as an endlessly patient tutor for exploration between features, while Martin distinguishes between AI as a tool for talking to computers versus the irreplaceable human skill of talking to the people who need software built. Both are optimistic about the future, though Kent's optimism takes characteristically sharp form: he expects the industry to keep making the same mistakes, which means he'll still be employed teaching the same lessons 20 years from now.The conversation also revisits the Agile Manifesto at nearly 25 years old, with both reflecting on what Extreme Programming got right — feedback loops, testability, evolutionary design — and what the broader adoption missed or diluted. Martin is candid that progress in software has been slower than he'd like, though he points to a "forest" of practitioners who have genuinely advanced the craft. On the question of a Manifesto reunion, both gently redirect: it belongs to the next generation now. Their closing advice to a junior developer in the audience is perhaps the most memorable exchange in the whole session — use the gaps between features to learn, and never forget that understanding the domain and the people in it is ultimately what separates good programmers from great ones.Read the full abstract here:https://gotocph.com/2025/sessions/3780RECOMMENDED BOOKSMartin Fowler • Refactoring • https://amzn.to/3EVcHXQMartin Fowler & Pramod Sadalage • NoSQL Distilled • https://amzn.to/3ChIpu7Martin Fowler • Patterns of Enterprise Application Architecture • https://amzn.to/3lp4sIqMartin Fowler • Domain-Specific Languages • https://amzn.to/3nzOIFkMartin Fowler • UML Distilled • https://amzn.to/3kahjyAKent Beck • Tidy First? • https://amzn.to/4gscjjKKent Beck & Cynthia Andres • Extreme Programming Explained • https://amzn.to/3sBASDGKent Beck • Test Driven Development • https://amzn.to/3U4AXLsKent Beck, Fowler, John, William, Don & Gamma • Refactoring • https://amzn.to/3SFBYbNKent Beck • Implementation Patterns • https://amzn.to/3sBlCGLBlueskyInstagramLinkedInFacebookCHANNEL MEMBERSHIP BONUSJoin this channel to get early access to videos & other perks:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs_tLP3AiwYKwdUHpltJPuA/joinLooking for a unique learning experience?Attend the next GOTO conference near you! Get your ticket: gotopia.techSUBSCRIBE TO OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL - new videos posted daily!