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That Case Is Not Here II - #26 WKT6 episode artwork

Sep 4, 2022 47 min

That Case Is Not Here II - #26 WKT6

from Who Killed Theresa Hosted by John Allore

Some updates on some cases: David Cross, Helene Hurtubise, Margaret Coleman. The slog of dealing with police investigative forces.

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That Case Is Not Here II - #26 WKT6

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Ding-dong ding September has come hey, this is John all over This is who and killed Teresa. I thought I'd step in give a monthly check up on what's What's to be what's going on August crawled along as I felt that way for me And I've been Writing cave as many of you know, I'm actually sitting there right now. I did a podcast like on this old depression era butcher block table where I had like a Alan and Keith mixing board a preamp Reporter microphone rig an overly expensive microphone I could adequately do with the blue snowball again, but there it is, you know the bendy The thing hangs on to my he just kind of Bend back Yeah, my descriptive powers are awesome this morning So that's what I have I think I mentioned in the monthly newsletter I sent out I have a dual screen I work off a PC um, where you know, I'll write in Microsoft Word on the PC But also keep a window open for referencing stuff and then I also keep the Mac to the left So it's highly sophisticated and the Mac for like doing mapping exercises Because you're always talking about place and location You want to make sure this is in relation to this and it's this amount of miles away And oh by the way should that the in kilometers are in miles and all that kind of crap Mac is good for photos Translation, it's really really good for that kind of stuff. So that's that's what I've been doing and kind of chipping away I've been aggressive my Publisher gave me a deadline of I think it's September 15th, 2023 so like a year from now, but I've already Craped out a hundred pages Like a thousand words a day thousand words a day 31 days You know, I'll get you like 33,000 words.

That's a hundred pages You do that three more times and you've got a draft and say a draft You don't have a manuscript because there's an awful lot of actually this morning when I'm finished here I'm gonna go in and do a whole lot of nipping and tucking I completed a chapter for instance on Some specifics about a low police al-opelis, but didn't really explain what a low police is to an American audience So I got a plop down a paragraph on The brief history of the tabloid al-opelis which I've been kind of thinking about how to do that so throw that in Very since under the other things I probably shouldn't do this, but I keep like an Excel spreadsheet with a running tally of what every chapter is Right now the longest chapter is like 9,000 words the yellow police one is still working on it is admittedly the smallest 2000 words That ain't gonna do you know six seven thousand words is a reasonable chapter, but it just clocks away here, right? Which is good. I can see okay. I've written 35,000 300 words 100,000 words is 300 pages.

That's what I'm that's what I'm obligated to contractually so the difference I got 64,000 words to go And it's it's got to be a hundred thousand words well or under it cannot be over a hundred thousand words You may think wow They'll love that you'll write a 400 page book and they'll get it for the price you negotiated no No one wants that and no they won't because then they'll have to pay for more more paper for the extra hundred pages You you wrote and didn't agree to so no that'll just I mean this people off That's all that's that's gonna do For inspiration I talked about this too. I like I watch a lot of junk I've watched a madman twice, you know I'd seen it before but I like I watched the whole thing and then I quickly I just cycled it again and watched it again You can figure out for yourself. So why I'm interested in madman I've been turning episodes of co-jack which is a kick cracker cracker Come over here Tell me some Alice man. He's he's a tonic And then I've watched a whole series of movies again you Decided with the thread is so I've watched coons bluff.

I've watched the 69 franks on our movie the detective which has got great performance by a young Robert DeValle by the way Johnny cool Pick up on South Street seconds. There's a frankenheimer 66 clute with Jane Fonda Donald Sutherland some idiot. I think it was either roper 100 molten or somebody said Clutes is the wrong name. It should be named after the the Jane Fonda sex trade worker character whose name is like I don't know it's like Callahan or O'Reilly It's it's not clutes.

It's a really uninteresting name It's like no no it should be called clute because You spend half your life trying to figure out what clute means and it sounds like clue These these critics man sometimes they're true idiots And Roger Ebert was was a real prude by the way just FYI I mean his tastes Whenever something made him uncomfortable, you know you get it less than three stars It's like you maybe should consider that Roger. You know why it makes you uncomfortable. So yeah, I've been watching Hill Street blues Which somebody said it hasn't aged well, but what has aged well, and what are you what are you freaking talking about? Yeah, yeah, it is It is still shocking to see that we hadn't come that far in the 80s But at the same time it was groundbreaking and you know it's inconceivable to see a cop partnering of a black and a white officer Let alone like Lucy and and a guy Ed Marinara guy and a girl So you know give it give it some credit there Yeah, I had a long way to go on a lot of things But you know what you look at these the top 10 series and every time either the wire or the sopranos lands is number one And it's like I can assure you in 20 years those things won't be number one We'll look back on those as well and say you know what they were good for their time But they're really you know now in the rear view mirror a crock of shit So it goes so it goes some some some business So I just I just recorded like a 30-second header for The old episodes the first season episodes I think I said there's about 44 of them that haven't been earned for four years So I am gonna release them because I don't have the time to do this right now So I'll do one a week until I run and that's when the groceries run out until the groceries run out until the cover is bare And we'll do it that way And again, you know, I haven't I didn't go back and listen to them I didn't chlor form them or anything like that they are what they are they got a sea of M's and M's and Glottal, you know clicks and things like this and just leave it all in warts and all I Know some people who have said to me that they really prefer those episodes that they were they were raw and And unprofessional and that's what they liked about it other people hated them for that they were like a Why don't you sound like case file or why don't you sound like true crime junkie true crime addict true crime?

I need a fix blah blah garage. There's one. I actually got one right true crime garage They are what they are right You know the other thing I would say about them is If you go listening to them and say and try to try to play Sherlock Holmes and follow the case I would say that everything in them. I no longer believe in Such as the nature of cold case investigation So you will be down a rabbit hole very very quickly if you come to me and ask me questions.

I'll say well I was wrong Sorry So we'll do that I'll probably do a couple of Halloween episodes. There's some There's some floats and jets and get some From what I've been writing that I'll If it makes it into a manuscript it will be You know ambitiously I say a paragraph, but it's probably it will probably end up as a sentence in my turn It'll be a footnote. It'll be a footnote and then it will be off the paper But nonetheless it would make for an interesting An interesting podcast or story and there's kind of like a the way I'm thinking that there'd be a kind of a trilogy that would start with One I did last year on the twin gynecologist's Gynecologist's in New York Two brothers whose names I forget but you know what I mean kind of a New York theme to kind of run it out with parts two and three That will episode with their dual suicide happened on the east side of Manhattan We have we'd have another east side tail and then we'd have a west side tail and that would kind of book and book and things In three of a perfect pair of fashion. I thought I'd Give you some some interesting updates on on things One is you know when you when you do a like a podcast One of these things it's it's not as you know if you listen my habit to To interview people for those episodes.

I kind of do some quick research and then write it up And even though in some cases the people involved are very accessible. I don't do I don't do that part of it is the time commitment It takes a lot time to do that part is particularly when it involves the victims or the family I don't want to be intrusive with it. It's like for me I'll put it out there and if somebody wants to provide feedback and comment Then I really like that, but I for something that is so Transitory, you know, you do one week and then you move on to the next I don't want to rock somebody's world over that I don't think it's very respectful But I always love it when somebody comes back and comments on it for instance when we did the episode on David Cross from 1979 the young man from Gannawake Mohawk Reserve who was shot by a skew officer David Cross's family came in and you know commented Thank you and you know for telling David story, which was really really great And then recently some racist asshole came in and and shadow over that so I had to shut that down Because you know if you have any comments and stuff like that my opinions got to be a safe space where everybody can say what they want Respectively and I know some people sort of you know Rev up the comments by by having you know vitriol and saying that's okay any comments good comments as long as my churn is Increasing I don't believe that at all. I can give a shit about how many people comment As long as it's as I say a safe space and people feel comfortable saying what they want to say and then you know Crashing from the stratosphere comes this asshole.

So we shut him down. That was that um so there was that and then recently You know related to the David Cross thing is the case of Helen or two bees This is the young woman who was Who was found in her car car was pushed over like the jetty on the St. Lawrence River and it was thought at RCMP officer Was involved with that that they were having a Trist or some kind of a fair and he did you know She was getting too aggressive and he wanted to end it and rather than just simply you know breaking off the relationship he killed her Is what I would say it is some implication. Maybe some rough sex.

They got a hand this kind of thing Ellen the herchi piece and It's kind of related to David Cross because where that happened is St. Catherine's Quebec which is just off the island of Montreal. It's right on the border of the Mohawk Reserve So it's always firmly in my mind in fact when I visited Montreal last December I drove in and when you when you drive in You know from the States depending on how you're coming along a South Shore and Map quests depending on what it is can take you into Montreal by a variety of Bridges the Champlain Bridge the Jacques Cartier Bridge sometimes depending on traffic flow the Mercier Bridge rarely the Mercier But this time it took me in through the Mercier Bridge which will bring you in along kind of a South Shore Meaning when you come in off the highway you you literally come right into St. Catherine's and so I drove and I immediately knew where I was I looked to my right and I was right at the place where we're Helen and the police the RCMP officer Met sort of car to car and would have these discussions I recognize immediately and then you hang a left And you're driving along and all along the way you see these cigarette shops So then you know you're on Mohawk territory So that's where you know that's where the cross incident happened and then you cross the Mercier Bridge and then of course to your right is Lassal much we all the borough of Lassal where the Theresa Pearson case happened Here sounds like beating and strangle if you may have been William 5 it's my theory So I You know I've cursed myself because I've completely mapped Montreal with these crime events So I'm constantly reminded of it, but a long Trajectory to say that Helen Earthubie's mother commented on the story to Thank me for doing it and to say yes She always believed that the RCMP officer was culpable in her daughter's death So so I you know I'm always appreciative when the family comments and comes in if I can offer assistance I I will Related to that I think I mentioned last time about Margaret Peggy Coleman and a cousin contacting me Coleman is the young woman who along with her friend Margaret Jones flew in to New York City from California when they were like 1819 one summer they were gonna do the cross-country thing took a bus up to Montreal and We're in Longay like at a traffic circle looking for a ride to hitchhike.

They were actually headed back to Michigan to visit their family They were picked up and you know the next morning they were found by the side of the road either murdered or thrown out of the car and Accidentally Margaret Coleman was was killed Margaret Jones survived, but remembered little of the event this in 1970 Margaret Coleman's daughter contacted me so we're in contact now And I think I mentioned this there's there's a chapter in the book that goes into the Confines of memory Margaret Jones Margaret Coleman story in a little more detail in a little more detail Obviously that helps with the family Now I'm filling in the pieces that you you normally you know you wouldn't have particularly 50 years after the event It's kind of a miracle that that that that even happened so that that I mean that's interesting and you know as a Reciprocal thing I offered to broker with the search data Quebec getting getting Margaret Coleman's picture and story on their website because it's their case it's the search data Quebec's case and they know it's their case because I was speaking with them about a related matter about six weeks ago and They said we've got this case of Margaret Coleman. Do you know it? I said yeah? Yeah, I know it very very well Which means you know the officer I was speaking to was in the South did you get X?

Database so they had it and if they had it then why isn't on the website well because it's an American case You know or it's an American victim and that's a that's not as high a priority. That's cruel. I know but that's just the reality so there's There's the hat of which is interesting speaking of the speaking of the sartre de Quebec I promised in the newsletter that I'd tell this a little more detail So I think you know you know about once probably well at least once a month some TV group Reaches out to me to do a story on tracer something like this and And I think I had mentioned last time these the Huxters from Philadelphia or something Well this time, you know, there's you For instance, there's a group from CTV in Montreal CTV News is doing a story on Me Teresa my sister Teresa I guess and they're good people like I know the producer and all of that and we talked it out over the summer I was like what do you want to do because I really wasn't interested in doing, you know the same old thing and Typical people when they want to do this they go down the wrong path. They You know, they read they read the wrong stuff is just what I'll say and so though the one who you know retread the ground of and And you found these two other murders and you contacted a geographic profiler and you made this connection and I'm like, you know, that's old news I Don't completely I'm not completely invested in that one theory anymore and and in any way I'd rather you know, there's all these other cases Hell and your TV is David Cross Margaret Coleman that I'm far more interested in than my sister's case So but these guys from CTV CTV News, they're based in Montreal but it's gonna be a national story I think they said it's gonna be broadcast in December and you know They sort of and the people they want to interview or have not been interviewed before and they're unique and interesting And and it's not just exclusively the like the hunt for the killer which I really hate It's more you know, it's more focused on me and why why a guy would be doing this for 20 years So they wanted like they want to get some b-roll footage of me doing this doing the podcast They said to me, would you come up to Montreal and do an interview and I'm like Who's paying?

They said, oh no, we'll fly you in and put you up and I just said, you know, anytime Somebody offers to pay for me to come to Montreal. I'll be there, you know Several of you have sort of said when you come to Montreal to do a reading the moment you organize the reading and Fly me in we can actually negotiate on the fly me in part the moment you organize it. I will be there But I'm not organizing it Yes, I'll go to Montreal you are you crazy? So that so that is very good On the bad side, so I'm I'm contacted with these producers for the Paula's on show Paula is on I used to think it was Paul Leson Paul is on was a believe an anchor for years on one of the large broadcasters It was either CNN or Fox when when Fox was fairly legitimate.

So Paul is on they contact me You know and it starts with the usual pitter patter Oh, you know We read your we read about your story and we're so sorry for what happened to you and your family and your sister And we want justice and we have most respect for the victim and blas. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and so I talked to this woman and You know her pitch opens with it. We've done over 300 episodes. We know this we know what we're doing We know what we're doing we've been doing this for 10 years These unsolved case and we'll give you you know we'll give you an hour on the Paula's on show which is on some independent I don't know what it's on discovery or something like that And and and we're so sorry for the death of your sister Terese You know not a deal breaker, but strike one get the victim's name right how hard is it?

And then there's there's like a stutter pause and it's like now now can you can you tell me your relationship to the victim? Strike two, you know As a foundation you should sort of know that I'm a brother. It's not too much to ask To do a little homework So at this point I'm like how how did you learn about this case? Can I just can I just ask how did you learn about this?

Well, you know in our production studio we have a board You know of cases and it gets put up on a board the case and and then it gets assigned to like a line producer So and that's me and so I was I was was on the board I got tasked with it I was asked to you know kind of run it down and see if it was viable and so so so it's just this big true crime engine that churns right? They got to feed the machine with these stories, you know, it's ten years 300 stories and So I'm I'm I'm doubtful at this point and I'm even more skeptical at the next thing that comes out of them Of which is you know, who can we interview because you got to understand? We're we're very pro-police. They didn't use those words, but Very respectful of the police and we got to have an interview with the with the investigative agency and I'm like well We've reached an obstacle right here, man, because that's the story Stories criminal investigative failures at the hands of the investigative body But you know, I'll play along so I draft a nice letter to the Sartetica back who as some of you know I'm already on the outs with right.

I haven't up to this point. I I was being played like Like beanbag toss with investigators with liaisons They're on my shit list, but you know, I'll break bread so I send them an email and let me introduce you to so-and-so She's a producer with the show in the United States. They'd like to do it, you know do a program and have an interview It took the Sartetica back less than 90 minutes less than 90 minutes to respond. Thank you for your inquiry.

We're not gonna do that And normally I I could I would be livid You know you kidding you're jeopardizing my opportunity with the Paul is on show, but I could give less than a shit anymore, but yes so So I say I say to it and plus the producers making me go through hoops, right? Can you send me this and send me that so I send them a couple of things like I send them a An electronic copy of the book wish you were here and just sort of say, you know at the very least do yourself a favor and read this You know if you want to skip to the good parts you can search on the e-copy so you can just plug in You know the things that are titillating to you and look them up I send them the W5 tape from you know years ago another news Program that had done us an hour on tree size, you know, you can look at this They might give you a you know a way in for what you're doing, but you know, they want every single document like source document maps police reports medical reports and I have all of that but and I assembled it You know these reams of documents, but I told them categorically you're not getting it until I get a commitment from you But this is a go because I'm not going to the trouble. I'm not having that shit flowing out there. Thank you very much I've been a bit of a prick.

Let's go around, but come on come on, right? I appeal to the SQ I went back and I say, you know, this is not right and Wrote this long letter that detailed everything I'd done last winter in spring, which is absolutely true It said listen last year I met with you guys and you asked me to help you move the case So in order to move the case I did what you asked which was to produce a podcast in English in French going back to Sherbrooke and kind of explaining the story Where there were parts that you didn't like I allowed you to edit my words and change them. I mean I really Lated on thick You know and then I said you know at the point where it was it was you know your responsibility to now insert yourself and do your job Here I've developed two suspects go interview You fucked off You were nowhere to be found So I think you know when I come to you when I ask you to do an interview You can at least reciprocate all the work that I've done that I continue to do only investigation that I continue to do that You're not doing That probably did me in right there. I got a I got a temper that but you know, you know what I don't need to temper that So I you know I just I said you should you should reconsider this they haven't fine I don't know if Paul is on is gonna go forward or not.

I don't care they can they can't What they came back with after that was you know a little problematic as well they come back and they like a Oh, we really liked that program from ten or twenty years ago Can we interview you know this guy? They're like can we interview Leo Hamel? No, he's dead. Can we interview your father?

No, he's dead Just just use the tape man. Nobody's gonna care. I was gonna know you pinched it from you know This Canadian program from two decades ago. Just use it, you know and then they're like can we can we interview the serial?

Geographic profile or camera osmone. I'm like well you you can But then but then you're going down a road of these three murders are connected and I and it's like you can interview him on that But you can't interview me on that because I no longer believe that is the strongest theory So what do you do in here? You know, it's really about the quality of the programming You know if I go down this road all it's going to do is produce static and I don't have a lot a lot of interest in noise Around cold cases. So I seriously doubt the Paul is on show Featuring Teresa lore is is going to happen.

You know, I mentioned You know the paradox of doing the podcast but not notifying anybody involved that you're doing it So it takes some time for people to respond if you're not reaching out to him saying hey In reverse in doing the manuscript the manuscript is you know producing a book is a different matter in that It mistakes are higher. It's a bigger project So it does warrant reaching out to people and doing these interviews investing the time in that which I've done a lot of I did one yesterday and You know, I could finish the manuscript right now with what I know I'm gonna put in it. It would be fine. It would be good.

Good book Which is precisely why I want to finish it quickly because then there's a there's a bunch of stuff that I want to add sort of like These are these are nice to have but they're not requirements If I just have the time to kind of go the distance and pursue them and some of that I've done and I've been amazed At the amount of progress I've made for what is essentially a 50 plus year old story that there are people still around Who know like vital information not only people documents. That's that's the other thing like like every chapter is designed to have An aha moment like what what? Not only for the for the reader like the general reader, but specifically for law enforcement It's designed to have a what the fuck moment. How does he know that when we know that it's a real it's a real Fucking over gotcha kind of thing and a for them for the most part I'm not relying on any kind of news account for the Research one of the tricks with which you were here that was used that I use was I could access French Newspapers and then translate them Which is you know which is a trick that worked for that and it's kind of impressive that won't work for this Which is an American story anyone can access newspaper archives nowadays So to simply go in and find an old story and retell it that ain't that ain't it man.

I know that The only time I'm doing that is when I'm incorporating Something in a unique way, but not as the prime source of What is a mounting to about them about 11 cold cases to the stake hole cases that you haven't heard about that When you when you go and research them later You'll you'll find some information, but you won't find the information. I'm referencing So it's a really you know puzzle and then there's this whole piece of Layering in information that I know the current current police and investigators have no idea Yeah, I Was talking to the head of a criminal investigation get a bureau on Friday with a large agency in the tri-state area who Clearly did not have a clue about stuff. That was his responsibility. Just say that clue.

It's clue. Nice guy. Great guy. Great guy But not aware I did not feel the need to be in any way aware didn't feel That any of these matters were his agencies responsibility, which What's surprising is also advantageous when you're in that situation then Probably saying more than I should hear When you're in that situation you can you you'll find that people are a little more easy to talk to you because they don't feel They are the ones responsible.

I don't know who other than the you know that The police agency in a certain jurisdiction is it's not them, you know, it's not like it's the state police. So you have the eye Buck bucks up somewhere. There's no statute of limitation on murder. So how do you how you How do you conclude that is head scratcher for me?

But anyway, I'm getting ahead of myself Let's see. Do I have anything else here? other than you continue to listen to who killed Teresa as I You know maintain the scaffolding of a podcast as I said, I'll In the I'll do this monthly supplemented by the old stuff until until the new year and then and then we'll do something new in the new year. I'll have Trailblazed enough by then on the manuscript to to be able to move forward and quite frankly, I'll need to I'll need to I just I'll just tell you flat.

I'll need it as a promotional tour a tool for for the for the manuscript Follow on sub stack if you go to the website treecellord.com Th E S A L L O R E point calm Uh, you can find social media links there like facebook and you can follow us on twitter But also there's a link there to subscribe to the newsletter Substack. It's just sub stack slash john all or I think it is. It's called that case is not here Uh, if you subscribe to that, I'm uh, I am more productive Producing newsletters than I am podcasts of late. So that that is a good tool.

Hey, it's you know, it's Labor Day weekend So take it easy You know take a break. I've enjoyed Reaching out today with this audience is always great and I always appreciate hearing from you Um Someone commented, you know, it's sort of said, you know who killed Teresa should probably maybe end It's kind of served its purpose, but I love the podcast which I really Someone who who listens a lot and comments and I really appreciate that I think I think we're we're coming to the same conclusion here. Um, it will it will transform into something else Anyway, that's all for today This has been who killed Teresa Are your hosts john before have yourselves a great great day

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This episode is 47 minutes long.

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This episode was published on September 4, 2022.

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