"That PK Life" [Natalie Boonstra]

You're now listening to Vice's Involcious podcast on Cultures. I'm here at Southern Adventist University. I'm a public relations major. I actually have a religion minor.

I want to do a ministry when I graduate. I want to bring more people into the church and make a positive experience for them. I feel like our message is so unique and we have this hope of Jesus coming back and we have this hope of salvation. I'm very passionate about the Adventist Church, but because I have grown up in ministry, I have been able to kind of witness first-hand some of the things that I would like to change.

For example, this digmas behind ministry families not being able to be like other families or this culture of maybe not having at honest or deep conversations because we don't want to offend. I think there's maybe a fine line in there, but my family and I are very close. I have a younger sister. In high school, it's her senior year.

I'm so close with my parents. I actually just based on my dad last night to catch up a little bit. My parents have always done a really good job of making sure that ministry and church life was something that was positive for us and something that we could get excited about and not something that would take my parents away. Because when I was going on, my dad was gone a lot.

There's a point where he was traveling 200 plus days out of the year and that's something that can definitely be hard on a family. My dad has always been very good about spending time with the family. When he's home, it's family time and we invest in each other. We talk about ministry and we talk about the church and we're very open about the things that are going on within it.

It's always been about Jesus. It's been about what did Jesus do for us. He died on the cross. He made this plan of salvation for us because he loves us so much.

I really see that love reflected from my earthly father. He loves us so much. He loves us so much time to both winning other souls for Christ because of the gifts that he gave us but also making sure that his family didn't feel like we were second best to that either. I don't know if that answers your question.

Yes. You talk about a stigma, a stigma of... Or a PK as well. A pastor's case in general.

Why do you feel like there's such a stigma? You think it's true and why do you feel like that is different for you? For your case specifically. Because you talk about how it doesn't really apply to you since you're very involved in everything that your family is doing.

Right. So always when I was in elementary school and middle school, it was always the joke. It was like, oh, Natalie's the pastor's daughter. We can't say anything bad about her because she's a perfect little angel.

And I saw so many of my other friends too because I've always gone to Adventist schools. And so my friends and whatnot were all very familiar with Adventist culture. It was just always a joke. You're the PK.

But then on the opposite side of that, I was in high school and leaving high school. I saw examples of friends and maybe other people in my community who had a similar upbringing as mine in that their parents were involved in ministry. And it caused them to grow bitter toward the church because maybe they felt like they weren't needed or their opinion didn't matter. Or I don't know that they felt like they had to live up to this certain standard that had been put on them because of who their parents were.

Like they had to be this like good kid and they had to like do all the right things and go to all the community service days and stay the right things and lead the Bible study and just really be on top of it. When really we were all just kids and we were all just trying to do our best you know. Just because of who your parents are doesn't necessarily mean that you will be the same way. And so I think that because of that pressure, I think that many people felt the need to just kind of break away from that and realize who they are without having to face the standards that had been put on them.

I think that's yeah well put but I have a different theory. I think most of the kids get neglected by their parents because of the ministry. I think you know they grew up where their moms and their dad are so invested in the ministry that they are not giving them as much attention as they should. And that creates a problem where they go and try to find validation from people that are not their actual family.

First thing is hearing your perspective, I'm a PK as long as a pastor's kid. So hearing your perspective and hearing what BH just said it just of like all these thoughts are super connected for me. So here's what I'm thinking. I grew up in a very similar context.

The only difference was just only for a few years my dad had actual title of pastor but he was always in ministry anyways. Not as out as far as like out of the house maybe as your father but there was still like a very distinct aspect of his life that went exclusively to that. And you know it's been the foundation of you know family still. You know I moved back recently and you know it's got something that guides us every single day.

I don't deny that at all so it's just really cool and really refreshing hearing that your experience was a good one because as BH said there's a lot of people that growing up a lot of PKs that I know never necessarily had like a good experience. I'm sure you met some people like that as well which you mentioned so my question is this like being especially you know this may or may or may not be relevant in your answer. But how are you able to empathize with that especially because you know this is like a ministry in and of itself to like you know make sure that people feel like that they're neglected as we talked about like aren't actually you know what I mean. Right so I think that I can empathize with that for sure because yeah like I said my dad was gone a lot and maybe it's something that I didn't even realize wasn't like the norm for other kids because it was the norm for me.

I think that like I'm happy I'm happy to hear that you had a good experience as well because I think there are lots of other cases where ministry families like invest back into their children but I think what you said about how sometimes they feel neglected is very important because I think we as a church we have such an important mission of you know bringing other people to Christ and evangelism is huge and that's so important and I think sometimes like we get so invested in the work that we forget about like the heart of it. And that goes back to like being a steady and available parent for your children and making sure that they understand what the mission is about. Like something that we were always really good about in our family is just like being real and talking about like very real issues in the church and very like I so we as kids my sister and I went to my dad's evangelistic meetings all the time his revelation meetings and we would see so many like real people with real problems and like we would watch them come to God and it was just so incredible to see that and so I think we were lucky to be able to like experience the heart of why we do it. And I've never felt like oh my dad is like being taken away by this thing it was more like okay like wow like this is really cool and like it's really cool that we all get to do this as a family.

And I think I can empathize maybe with people who don't get to be as involved in their parents ministry maybe because of financial reasons not being able to travel or not being able to miss school or the way the ministry is set up there's maybe not as room for family involvement. And I can see how a kid who doesn't understand like this is why we do what we do could feel like oh my parents just care more about work than me. I have a feeling that you really invested in ministry is that a good assumption. I think so.

So I want to know how different was going up for you. Because my dad isn't a pastor but I think my parents are pretty conservative and really religious people so I felt like going up navigating through my youth and everything a lot of times we'd come across things that all friends were doing that we couldn't go sign so how did you deal with that. So I was like how was it not perfect there were definitely times where you know my friends like okay so for example I there was a role in our house that I wasn't allowed to have sleepovers and it was probably up until I got into high school and I was like in the dorms and my friends would like we would all sleep over each other's houses but I was always so mad about that I was like I don't get behind a sister role. And there were other certain rules like there were certain things that like my friends were doing on social media like I don't know when you're like a 14 year old and you're using like swear words on social media and like they would just do those kinds of things without thinking or like my friends.

I was just without thinking or like post music that had explicit lyrics and like I always knew that I could not participate in that kind of a thing because it would reflect my dad as a person which isn't fair because I was just a normal kid like the rest of them and I was just trying to navigate what I felt was right and wrong but because of who my dad is and the important ministry that he has and how many people support him I never wanted to like ruin that for him or cause any reason for people to doubt that he was a good father or that he was like. You know really teaching me about God and like working through the normal kid things with me and being there as a guy to help me navigate like what I felt like was right and wrong because there were lots of fights there were so many fights about like why can't I wear this dress I really like this dress well no honey like we're going up on the platform and like if you wear that it's not going to look up for it. And those were I think especially like as a very young teenager like I don't know eighth and ninth grade it's when I started to realize that other kids were maybe more free to make mistakes openly and publicly. And publicly than I was and this was never something that we discussed as a family it was never like okay not really like you wear a ministry family so you have to be different it was we never said those words or had that conversation and it was more so a case by case like we like for the closing instance like we represent God when we're going out there and doing this so why not do your best and look your best and put your best foot forward if that makes sense.

Right so there were there any instances where you felt left out. Because because like I was saying earlier I felt like for a lot of us this is where this is where it's kind of tricky because we're like I want to do this too but then you feel like you can't really do it so at some point when you get older you realize that I've never had the opportunity to do those things so I was just go ahead and do them now you see what I'm saying. I like a very not like a very adventurous kid. I I certainly got into lots of trouble don't get me wrong like I was I was the classic I had my phone taken away I was grounded like they were dead like okay so I like made a Facebook account when I was like 10 and then my parents were like no I don't think so and then like I had like my social being taken away from me for like six months when I was in 10th grade because of like instances with going out with boys that I know I wasn't the post-view and I definitely like did the rebellious teenage girl normal things but I I never like felt the need to do it like so that everyone could see it was just more so like my family know what was going on with me my very closest friends know what was going on with me but I think maybe with the rise of social media in the past like since we've been in middle school and early high school I think maybe everyone has such a public platform in which they know what's going on with me.

So I think maybe everyone has such a public platform in which they make their mistakes and show their interests and their lives and so maybe I think that's why we've noticed it more like oh they're not following exactly how their parents raised that and we see it as a rebellion but maybe it's just like a normal they're figuring things out just like we did but it's more public this time. That's super interesting I like that a lot as time went on my dad started getting into psychotherapy and he's now a hospital chaplain and he also oversees the education aspect of it because you can get certified and all this stuff. The reason why I'm sharing this is because prior to this experience and just career change he was it was a lot harder to communicate especially on an emotional level. We've kind of talked about it this entire time where you know the feelings that you had were always met because you guys were very good at communicating which is very commendable and very needed as well and so that was something that as I was growing up it was hard to kind of find a common ground on that but since that career change has definitely helped and you know I can agree with it I can agree with you as well because as far as being available is concerned when you're aware of the fact that okay I have I'm super busy like my dad being the director of this aspect of the hospital that he works at super busy of course so being aware that you don't have a lot of time during the week you have an opposite schedule to everybody else myself included you say to yourself all right let's make time so we've already made time in advance for the next outing and things of things of that nature so it's really like a communication thing as well I mean like when you when you share the gospel as a form of communication but has to be communicated perfectly and you know you being where you are as far as the platform is concerned it's super important to be conscious of that and and I'm glad you brought up the rebellion aspect because here's what struck me about this whenever a kid is acting up in church which anybody that's listening that has been in church will see that or been that so if it's a kid acting up in church there's always a very polarized reaction this and it happens on two ends one nobody takes the time to administer you know what's going on in a quiet way or two people just overreacting most of the time it's allowed in its public and then the narrative becomes you know especially given our case like oh you're a pique should be doing that or even just more generalized you're christian you shouldn't be doing that you shouldn't be doing that and that's something that defines a lot of us for a while and it's funny because earlier today we did another episode which may or may not be out by the time that we put this out but I believe it will be we'll see but we one of the running themes for this particular episode was personality tests and we talked about how this catchphrase was your personality doesn't define you and when we talk about being like for instance I'm an INFJ so knowing the aspects of what makes me an INFJ based on what I read and what I research you know that paints the picture for me and that's cool that being said I don't use or now that I'm more aware self aware I try not to use my introversion for example as an excuse to not socialize you know it's very easy to do because you know your introvert and you would rather not be with people anyways but not letting your personality define you super important and I believe the same we talk about this all the time and like my church is growing up you know being advanced specifically being SEA being christian in general but you know I can only speak to Adventism it is something that people let define them more and as you say they're not getting to the heart of it you know it's about looking apart and playing a certain part you know you got to feel certain all especially if you're a pique or an e-k in your case but that being said it's deeper than that and a lot of people my age are not in the church in the church for this reason because of the simple fact that they haven't, there's no actual connection because it was always about, you know, it was a very fair-surgical approach.

It was always about, you gotta look a certain way, you can't say this, you can't do this, and you end up pushing away people that maybe really need to be ministered to, but you're not getting to the heart of it, you know what I mean? Yes, and I really like that you brought that up because I think a lot of times too, we make assumptions about people that they have it all together, and the truth of the matter is that nobody does. Like, we're all sinners, we all need Jesus just as much, and the whole point of having a church family is to be able to be there for each other and lift each other up, and your pastor needs just as much prayer and encouragement as you do. Yep, exactly.

So I'm curious about what, as far as travel, can you give me at least one or two quick stories about where your family's ministry has taken you and what has really impacted you personally, not just where it has taken you physically, but also emotionally and mentally and spiritually? Yeah, absolutely. So one thing I will say is that my parents were always very good about like keeping a balance of like making sure we still had the normal school life and not having to pull us out of school too much, although they did, and it was exciting when they did. We, the, so one trick that really stands out to me is when I was 13 or 14, we went to India and we went with Asian Aid, which is now Child Impact, like partnering with them.

It was just my mom, my sister and I, my sister's like, and at the time, and we went to India, we, this was the first time that I had been somewhere that wasn't like within the United States or Canada or maybe like Mexico. So this was a big deal for me. Wow. Yeah, so P, because I had seen pictures of like huge of the angelistic meetings with my dad from between India and just like, papped, papped crowds, like they had to like turn people away.

Like, so it was exciting for me because I was like, wow, like there's so many people here and we, what we did is we, we stayed in the city for a couple of days and then we went out into like more of the slums and we went to a couple of different orphanages and I was able to meet other girls over my age and talk with them and share their stories. And this trip especially was super impactful for me because it gave me kind of more of an understanding of like, what actually happens when my parents are gone and why it's so important to make these one-on-one friendships and connections with the people who are overseas and who don't have the same opportunities as us to get eyeballs and learn about God. And so actually, one of the girls, I knew this shoe less, she's around my age and she's just like finished nursing school and we still write letters to each other every once in a while. But, so that's one of the stories and being a 13 year old, like I, I don't think it was as deep of an experience for me as it could have been, could be now.

But I just remember realizing how big the world is and that like basically like not everything revolves around me and my life and my church or my school and like what's going on with me. So I think that was like a pretty big mental shift for me. And then other trips, I would say we've done a lot of trips but we haven't done anything, like super like out of overseas. But my parents would do like these partnership and sponsorship weekends where donors could come and they would like hear about what's going on in the ministry and they would like donate their money and help support different causes that we were working on.

And those were always super fun for me because they were always spread out across the country and they're in different locations and they would have them once a year and then you get to like no other kids whose families are coming and you make friends and it was just like, it was cool for me to be able like, oh we get to miss like Friday of school and like go to these meetings and then you know I kind of really felt like I was involved because the other people on the staff and team would give me little jobs to do and like my sister and I would get to make little announcements here and there and at the time it was like such a big deal to be able to be involved and we really felt like we were helping but I think it was really important that the other people on the staff and on the team made us feel like we were family and we like called them grandma and uncle and it was I think it was just it was more than that and the extended team too was wild and just my parents making us feel involved like we felt like as young kids that we were able to do something that mattered. Wow that's amazing. All those experiences like India is funny like I just I just got a message from my Indian friend right now I've been fascinated with their culture. Talking about it a lot lately definitely want to check it out.

What's one place that you want to definitely see that you haven't seen yet. Oh man I mean there's so many places I want to travel still. I want to go back to India because I have a really big passion for like women and women who have been involved in sex trafficking and that's a huge thing that's going on over there. So I'd really like to visit some of those countries like India, Nepal, this one like it's gonna scare my mom if she hears but I really want to go to the Middle East.

My dad went there to minister like two years ago. No he wasn't Kuwait actually but he happened on the UAE he went to Dubai for a little bit and it was like of course super super hot there but a great time like with ministering people out there so definitely dope. My Indian friend also was in Lebanon teaching for a year. Wow.

Yeah I think it was part of ACA as well for Union College. Oh yeah so Middle East is like you know it's just a different energy there. Yes and it's definitely a dangerous place for a woman to travel to but it's a place that needs so much help and reach and like another place too I am really passionate about North Korea which sounds funny but they have a lot of their freedoms are very very limited I'm sure you know and they like basically aren't even allowed to like read the Bible and or talk about God and like they worship like King John and who it is right now so I think what I'm trying to say is the places there are places I want to travel but like I haven't even been to Europe yet and I really want to go and see places like that but places where I want to travel to actually demonstrate are the places that go really untouched. Makes sense.

Yeah that's what it's all about like you have to go like everywhere at this point. Yes. That's awesome so listen I have a really great conversation. It's been really cool hearing your perspective.

You see you see ministers and evangelists and pastors and Adventist culture that have that platform that we have in the G.C. and you know especially with next year being the next one. You see all of these you see it from from my side. You see it from the everyday Adventist and it's just really interesting hearing what the experiences actually are from the other side because you know there are two sides and it's just been really cool because all my life I've been very curious and like I said I do have another friend who is in this very similar situation but it's been really great hearing your perspective really thankful you know that you had a great experience overall and it's just been really cool hearing how you can empathize with people because you really do like it's great because a lot of times when you have conversations about why people aren't in church there isn't necessarily somebody in that conversation who is able to get to the heart of the matter.

It's more just about the venting aspect and you know nothing really gets done or nobody's really there to actually hear the issue you know fixing the sink when the well is the issue kind of deal. But I really enjoy your perspective because you really tied it into you know not only like how great your experience has been but like how you're able to connect with others because you know being at Southern I'm sure like you're taking advantage of as many opportunities you can to administer and that's what I love about our schools is because they would always give opportunities for people to go somewhere and I took those opportunities as I saw fit and I know that that definitely helped me along the way and I'm sure you can say the same. So thank you for this. Yeah well thank you again so much for asking me to share my story.

Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for taking the time to listen to this episode of Vices and Vultures and considering being a supporter of this project.

Even leaving a review on your preferred podcast platform was a long way for us. There is more information about this episode as well as who we are in the show notes. This includes all of our social media links so you can see us and not just hear us. Vices and Vultures is brought to you by aesthetic and is based in the great state of New York.

Be sure to subscribe to this podcast for more episodes and tune in next time to Vices and Vultures.