The 10 Best Movies of the Year ... So Far

Welcome to the brand new Zach Lowe show that's right. I'm back to have the same in-depth NBA conversation You're used to we're gonna talk about the games the X's and O's the drama the playoffs are coming up And now you get to see every episode in full on video on Spotify and on my own YouTube channel Episodes drop every Monday and Thursday with a collection of guests you're gonna love so make sure you follow and subscribe to the brand News Zach Lowe show on Spotify or wherever you watch or listen to your podcast. Let's go I'm Sean Fessy I'm Amanda Doudon And this is the Big Trick conversation show about the best 2025 has had to offer so far It's the end of June the halfway mark of the movie year have the movies been good so far We'll ask the ringer all-stars what they think ten different answers to our question including our own. Are you excited about this?

I am okay first. Let's talk about what's going on in the world of movies. Yeah F1 mm-hmm They liked it box office success. Yeah, 55 million dollars here in America Just saw on deadline it has been revised 57 57 million dollars without you in the final 2 million showing up Sunday night Well, that's a great news for the producers of that movie, you know I'm not terribly surprised we talked a little bit about it the movie I was a huge international appeal as well hundred million dollars internationally But this is the third June in every ten year cycle the Brad Pitt has a big movie yeah in 2005 Mr.

Mr. Smith big hit in 2015 World War Z big hit and now this movie and Warner Brothers is kind of killing it this year I gotta tell you yeah This is like a fifth consecutive movie that they have marketed the hell out of that they've gotten people excited about and the people have showed up for Yeah, and I feel like we started this year being like oh Pam and Mike I don't really turn around doing you know Minecraft centers final destination Vloglines Superman is around the corner right well. Yeah, I think it's gonna do really well Superman and all the sudden It's all leaning up to one battle after another that's true and then that was gonna make 900 million bring it to Venice Yeah, you're really stepping for that heart, huh? Yeah, I would like to see a lot of caprio and red carpet What if yeah, but then I really just have to go begging at Warner Brothers for a ticket so that's a good point What if PTA Zags and goes straight to tell you right?

Do you think that would make sense? Well, I think you'll get raves out of tell you right sure except for all of the old people who Reviews I'm gonna do my reviews I'm gonna do some incredibly well reviewed out of tell you right right So I don't know I'm curious I'm curious to see what happens I haven't have a great time anyway in addition to movies that are coming in the future in 2025 We have a 2026 movie trailer the movie is called Project Hail Mary Yes, if you listen to our conversation with Matt Bellany after cinema con I think this was the most enthusiastic all of us were about Any single thing that they showed us now it was a trailer for a movie that was like 14 months away I didn't appreciate that and I don't appreciate it now They're teasing us this long with this movie nevertheless what we saw I think was closer to six or seven minutes of the movie This trailer is three minutes. We did I believe so I believe we saw something longer than what they what they just put out Okay, you don't think so no I thought we saw the trailer and then I thought that Ryan does like appeared on stage before us You did do that. Yeah, I thought it was longer maybe it wasn't maybe it was anyway This is the new movie from Phil Lord and Chris Miller who are you know very renowned producers at this point But having directed a movie it surprised me to learn in 11 years Not since 22 Jump Street have they directed a movie which is shocking but then you think back to solo the Star Wars movie They were supposed to make and then were fired off of and replaced by Ron Howard So you know they've been working on the spider-verse movies and a number of other projects But as I do well they have made a movie since then so Rin by Drew Goddard who is adapting an Andy Weir book for the second time The last time he did this it was a little movie called a Martian.

Yeah, Roger Tell me he does have some things in common with a Martian It's about a man going into outer space by himself and trying to survive trying to and figuring things out Yes using science and the human spirit sure to solve a problem and to reconnect with humanity and all of us That's right. Yeah, let me tell you this is a formula for movies that works. I absolutely can't wait I think this we looked incredible We were just like oh my god, what is this biggest and then they hit this morning and the you know the group chats are Very good chat was firing. Yeah, everybody's pumped about this movie We'll see it's coming out next spring.

I'm ready I think it is an admit timing of like there'll be a lot of lead up to it during the Academy Awards run Yes, and then it's like a week or two after yeah, and I think it ensures that we'll see Ryan Gosling at the Academy Awards as well I'm thrilled Any other thoughts anything else you want to share about Project on Mary? I'm pro. Okay, so we're talking about the year movies on this episode We also preview the summer with a game this year and we're halfway through the summer Well, it's not maybe not an account under sense, but in the movie calendar sense, so we've had me and we've had June Mm-hmm good summer so far. Okay.

Okay. Yeah, I think this episode is about finding the good and everyone has been enthusiastic I like everyone's pics and so we finished this episode and we're like hey pretty great movie here and at the box office It's been like fine to go solid. Yeah improving not a disaster definitely not a disaster No, you know, whatever goes on on your side of the table No, we don't have any like two billion dollar movies aside from the Chinese Nisha films huge Um, but some solid performers and some really good movies the game that we played was about both the quality and the financial aspects So we were predicting box office and Metacritic score domestically only now the tally is in yeah We're trying to get lowest score possible Right, but we want to have is the smallest margin in terms of our predictions and at the moment. I am currently leading you yeah 140 points to 1061 points.

It's simply not what you want. It's not what you it is Obviously what I want now. We have gotten a couple things very wrong. Yeah, very wrong.

I think the minute after we recorded this I felt bad about a couple of things. I feel bad about a lot of things And you know, I guess I was just in a quote-unquote abundance mindset in general I haven't I haven't read that book. I don't know what that's about the Derek Thompson book, but um, yeah It's about the rise of Marxism in our American politics I Think I was feeling I feel in generous for everyone, you know I was in a like it's like a go-go economy frame of mine Well, I think in some cases we overestimated in some case we significantly underestimated you know for example the first movie We talked about on that rundown was thunderbolt. We did pretty good.

We did pretty good. Um, I predicted $199 million in the box office was only Nine off it's one 90 right now. I'm just remembering that I revised up during the podcast And I think I was like pretty close to 190 originally maybe I was even at 180 So I was closer you went up to 215. Yeah, maybe because you love the movie so much.

I did. Yeah, definitely my favorite Um, you were seven off on the Metacritic score. You went 61 I went 64 and it landed at 68 so like that's a good example of us being in the relative ballpark So because of those gaps I picked up 13 points on that movie you picked up 32 We won't go through every movie here I'm gonna point out a couple of upside picks and a couple of downside picks downside pick. Here's one final destination bloodlines What was I doing?

Um, this is a tricky one So I I landed on a 119 coming out of this movie and you landed on 105 our box office predictions I picked 46 you picked 42 our Metacritic scores. We went 44 and 62 This movie has grossed $136 million in America and had a 73 Metacritic score I did not expect this movie as good as it is or as successful as it is I'm like is this correct that I only guessed 42 because I thought I remember thinking that I was like optimistic about this Okay, it's possible that it's wrong. We'll have to check in with our research department to confirm whether or not it's wrong Maybe they'll that seems low, but you know, I don't know we I think we were leaning on the box office history of this I do recall the Metacritic score being something that you were higher on. Yeah, I would do better So you are you had a 62 here.

That doesn't matter. That's not where I'm picking up points. It's very true We may have to revise the scoring system next year. It's like one dollar is not equivalent to one, you know, Metacritic It's not one million.

It's not it's just a game. Yeah, it's just a game another failure in our game Lilo and Stitch I mean I just straight up got that wrong because I'm not afraid to say that a lot of the movie in my opinion, but that's okay Yeah, that may be true A lot of people in our mentions a lot of young millennials raddling the cage about how important this movie was to them And how this is really the inside out people don't want the older sister to get an education So right you're referring to the backlash around the storytelling the lash of the Hana in Nani I'm pursuing her career as an ocean oceanographer. No a Bob Just thank you. Thank you.

She has a portal so she can come home and also Ohana is about it I'm worried about the lack of Ohana in the neighbor, you know, which just takes the 80 down and it's like good luck And then writes the 80 back up the hill. Okay, stop trying the Ohana from the social work You're trying to pivot away from your very poor prediction of box office for this film You predict 180 million dollars right now the movie is still in theaters and it has gross 395 million Listen, I fucked up you fucked up. I fucked up too. I predicted 218 million We were pretty close though on our Metacritic scores that came in at a 53 and we both predicted 56 so anyway We've got two more months of movies.

It's probably appropriate to check back in on this roughly mid-September again I'm gonna give September and say box office is settled Metacritic has settled anything that you're really nervous about in the second half that you made predictions on Superman yeah, we were a little low on Superman. No, I think I was higher We're right now. I'm like so the thing was is that overall We were lower and you were like particularly just lower from a box office perspective on the big East yeah on the big East and so like in total I think your box office did not like even meet the box office of last year. Mm-hmm That is so I and I it does seem like we're on track overall for the box office to meet or pass last year So I'm hopeful that like I played some averages You know and they're gonna be like one or two where you get really hosed and I make up some space Okay, you know, but I don't know whether that's gonna be Superman I like I'm a little nervous again the press tour You know it's not indicative of how things with a superhero and the title usually go but I'm there's the tracking is really high for this Right now, it's called Superman.

I mean that in the past that hasn't always meant that it would be a huge success It's just like it's the simplicity of it. Yeah, it's not like Manisty on wick ballerina or whatever. I was literally just like hey Have you heard a Superman? This is the first time a movie has been called Superman right since Christopher Reeve and I think that I like that all my money Just on that very simple decision, but we'll see let's find out Let's also find out what our colleagues think of the best movies of the year.

You ready to jump into that. Let's go to our first Ringer all-star Okay, Rob Mahoney podcaster extraordinary is here. There's a true star here at the ring I feel like you're like good overwhelm now That's a lot of pressure to live to in addition to all of your fine work in the world of the NBA and in prestige television You're a frequent guest of this podcast an avid movie watcher and you have the great fortune of being the first guest And the best movies of the year so far episode as you do in every draft episode. You just went right for it I'm not gonna dance around it.

You know usually I end up with what I think is the first choice in these selections And then you swoop in and you're like actually I want to talk about that Yeah, I was talking about centers. Okay, what else are we doing here if not talking about this? It's a really good point It was it's the obvious first round but it is the first topic again I'm not trying to get you with it to demonstrate the power of centers I had the pleasure of seeing materialist with you Amanda. Yes after the movie I mean is glued to her seat just to make sure there's not a 50 years flash ahead post credits stand up Seeing what to go to Johnson really shook.

Okay. I didn't even know until we were podcasting I haven't seen it by the way. No, that's equally upset to bite on 4k blue, right? Look, it'll it'll pop it's tremendous But yeah, like that's ultimately this is the kind of movie that changes what you want to look for in other movies And that's the kind of experience I'm looking for this would have been my number one It currently sits atop my rankings for the year.

It is a remarkable movie I think that its success is now bound up in its greatness to it's quality and the film is such a phenomenon at least here in the United States where it's a ton of money and Maybe we'll be a movie that we talk about all the way through next March. I'm not quite sure what you think one can only hope I think I mean I think it's gonna be a contention for a lot of things potentially including a lot of different performances Could be recognized for this like Michael Kane. Oh my god Like forget debut just in terms of a powerhouse revelation performance. I find it hard to ask for more than that It's kind of he's kind of an extraordinary find I was listening to some of his music that he made before this movie and it's in that kind of like I would say the Travis Scott Zone, okay Maybe a little bit of t-pain thrown in there as well and you're saying there's some real scouting down here You know, you really had to get to the depths of I don't know if you played guitar before he took got this part It sounds like not he literally transforms into a Mississippi Delta blues musician before eyes and it's amazing I think obviously it might be Jordan.

Well, there will be conversations about him to be under the air. Um, Haley's not full Yeah, congratulations on your recent marriage to judge out. I think there will be a lot of Lockering and we're happy for her. I didn't know she had that in her bag.

No neither And I've stayed with me. There's a lot of that in this movie. You know Jack O'Connell didn't know he had that in his Totally. Mummy Masaku isn't doing this stuff in Marvel Fair, you know, okay I think getting to turn back layers all these really interesting performers And it's such a great synergy of style and music and performance and ultimately messaging like this is a movie that has a lot to say It is in many senses.

What if from dust will dawn had more to say than some a high kiss hot? And that's a powerful there's nothing wrong Movie need more scenes where a stripper pours to keel it down her ankle and a man drinks it off of her toes I think that would have made centers better. I think it would have fit in honestly Yeah, listen everyone goes worried in their own way in this film It's very exciting obviously when the movie came out we celebrated it quite a bit on the show and I think Google are kind of Represents the best of us. This is really what I'm like kind of banging the table for every week I think it's a great pick for this.

I'm very curious to see what he does next Yeah, is there a blanker check than this blank? Yeah, I don't this is as blank as they get these days which is funny because he already had multiple billion dollar movies and He you know, he is apparently making black and three. Okay, then's a Washington is going to be in black and three Okay, I don't is Latisha right like Panther. That's not doesn't seem ideal.

No, it was not ideal in the second It was not I hope he's got something else coming up right behind that that is in the sinners If not the same yonder the same vibe the same that same sense of mastery that he brings to the table That would be nice, but I'm not mad at black panther three either and at this point I just am not gonna doubt anything that he wants to do Like I think between Creed and the first black panther in this those are three cooler movies that I don't know that anyone could Have done it in the way that he did totally agree So like a really singular vision for these movies that you would think Creed would have like a pretty paint-by-numbers kind of enterprise And all of a sudden it becomes this new and exciting thing and you would think this could be a pretty straight down the middle genre movie And it turns into something that's like so specific and captures something It's really hard to keep in the bottle and it manages to do it for the entire runtime I'm just like I can't get enough of this movie honestly great job. Well, it's yours. No, yeah Okay, we're here with Van Leithin higher learning one half one quarter of the night boys What other shows you watchable watchable's do a lot of stuff also rhyme or slow let's you guys know face of the ringer We we've come up with that. We've done that.

She's Sean. Yeah, you were a finalist. Yeah, okay I was first for out just like I was oh great. Okay first for out you were a finalist Andy you mean, but maybe we did your player comp.

Oh great. Okay, Jason Taylor But he's he's in recovery right now Yeah, I'm coming from an injury not from Yeah, yeah, he had a surgery the next morning I think he's gonna be ready sooner than everyone else and Jason Taylor has all the tools sure has won a title. Yes, but has no swag Oh, that's not absolutely true I was in it because of family stuff He really is the deuce his son and he's deuces with him everywhere. That's why oh, they're two sons.

No, just the sun is deuce Oh, okay, thank you His cop was I remember me and Chris Ryan came up with this stuff, but no, we only did cops for the people that were the first We're out Okay, sorry Jordan obviously the best movies of the year, you know, we just had somebody in here Rob Mahoney and he chose the film centers Fantastic. Yeah, so what do you think about that? I was awesome That they go the way things go here. They go van.

We're doing the best moves a year Can you come in and tell us your favorite film, right? And I go oh, no, right and they go oh, you can't choose centers Yeah, so which means that you're on the big pick they don't want me to be invited to the social The NAACP awards they don't want me walking around any type of cash in the culture. So I appreciate that Jack Sanders my new enemy Can you can you tell the listeners why you were not allowed to do that because Mahoney shows? Yeah, it's not I was again Rob Mahoney like the dark angel is a big picture and take things takes things I said that's not I should yeah, it's not I should but all about way people talk about a lot of people I'm talking about I've spoken about I say the move that I made like a year and a half ago to where I wanted to be a more Ranger stuff and I was no one is fucking taking over this place like Like you walk into the refrigerator and you try to get something and it's like Mahoney's put his name on Right, but like no one has taken over this It's incredibly true.

What was his cop? Oh, what is it? What is it? Mahoney's cop was we got into it?

I cannot remember because I need to guess I don't know I'm not the best I can see our thing see our hat the Mahoney cop I can't remember exactly what it was though, but whatever it was I mean he's he's giving yogic really giving yogic Okay, I know can't be stopped He's like go be with his family and also horses and his free time. He's like sources, right? He does yeah Thank you so much, man. I did work right?

Maybe maybe next year face of the ringer crack the top four. It's Mallory Ruben Okay, so all right Yeah, you know as people who don't really pay attention think that because we have the same color hair and are Remember the same person. That is so funny. Yeah, because if you listen to how I'm learning you're gonna hear that It's very funny.

It's amazing that she actually enunciated. Yes, I'm gonna you might see on YouTube time to time Well, let's talk about movies. Okay, you didn't get centers. He's like a center.

He jackel-kon with you And he will never be invited to the barbecue now, right? So what'd you choose? I chose companion This is a great pick and so I was gonna choose Thunderbolts But that was only a reflexive pick after centers wasn't there If I think about the movie that was most pleasantly surprised with and the most satisfied with thus far it's companion like I You know, I don't really know how to articulate the feeling of oh my god This is a film that I would have loved when I don't know what I'm really trying to say Struggle with it, but they usually just be movies that you would cut them on and you would be like what's happening? What's happening starts off with a really Seems like a scene that you know in some kind of dream sequence It doesn't seem real which are wondering why it's there but then the movie takes you on some twists and turns turns Just like that you really honestly didn't see coming and then it has something to say.

It's not unlike Ex Machina, I mean, it's like a kind of like the fun version of that movie is not fun. No, it's a fun to watch Yeah, it doesn't end well. Yeah, and it's existential drain and all that stuff But this one is it's cool when it's it's it's funny and it's a little sexy and it's a little rebellious and it has a villain turn from Jack Quay who you can't even see as a villain very unexpected and I really really enjoyed it pretty good pick It's a really good movie. It's like kind of the perfect first half of the year down the middle Modest genre movie.

Yeah, it just works and it did okay at the box office But I feel like it's now actually a little under seat it doesn't quite have the cash I saw in a hotel in New York when I was waiting to do something On scene which bill really loves when I do that So like what's the do we do that market films like this? It is a little bit of it like it has a twist and so to be able to I think it wisely did not put the twist in the marketing But or maybe it didn't The second part of the second part of the twist right it's hard to sell people and that was also a little bit like free Jack way moment because that was the first of the two Jack way it movies of the years So you also know the game, right? So the people I guess were just kind of asleep at the wheel, but I agree to you have really like smart funny script executed Just perfectly for what it is good performances and like I the thing you're saying of where you're trying to figure out Like what's going on? Yeah, oh, I do want to know what happens while it also being like very recognizable like here the genre beats beats that I need but Like the Tesla scene is just like extremely funny.

Yeah, and really oh, I know I know it's a Tesla Actually, it's not to be a Tesla to be yeah, and you're like, oh, of course I thought through this like this is exactly what you would write but I'm very amused and entertained by it and then like you know The film gets a little light where it should be dark gets a little dark where it's light Oh, there's a little there's some ominousness in some of the things earlier I don't want to spoil if anyone hasn't seen it But I wonder for a movie like that if I'm not in any way trying to recast the film or saying that the leads of the movie didn't do a great job But if Lawrence pew is your lead and then Paul Mescau is in the Jack way, but is that movie? It's bigger. It's like it's like I don't know it would be a surprising right You know something surprising Sophie Thatcher in that part holding or holding our stock or so be that you're not selling Yeah, I'm really really good at here. No, just that this we didn't like pop up.

Oh, yeah, but it's okay Yeah, I think it's great picture Hancock was on the show writer director. It's this first movie You've been a lot of screenplays. We never directed movie before I like it in and I'll say this before I got out of here about that There's intention. Okay, so in this being the first thing that a guy like that would write because If I was looking to get into the director's chair, I wouldn't think what is my best script I would think what is my most directable script like what can I apply of it because these guys make these movies and they're like later on The stuff that they're making by their fourth or fifth film a lot of times doesn't look like the first day that they make right?

They've perfected their visual craft right they've perfected the way that they work with actors But a lot of times young directors bite off too much when they want to sit down because I want to show people how bad As they are this is a movie that's well directed, but it's a very lean film Yes, so it's a perfect film if with a great script if you're gonna take your first shot at it Very smart very savvy great pick companion. Oh go see it. I'll see sinners and we love sinners and Rahmahoney to help you Coming to us live from Bulgaria. It's CR Chris Ryan.

See where are you man? I'm on the front lines We're trying to bring wheel of time back just for a man. This husband I'm gonna be filming it myself on my iPhone never let them tell you this something's impossible guys Well, we miss you here in Los Angeles. Hopefully we'll be reunited soon in the meantime We're talking about the best movies of the year so far you've talked with us on some episodes about some very good movies For example recently has this been a good movie here for you?

It's been a really really fun year for you I think that I was just talking to Andy about how we're kind of missing a show of the summer and at the two big ones That we were kind of thinking about if you would ask the six months ago We're like well swing game last season Swigame in the bear would be the big shows of the summer and they both binge dropped and have Has been haven't gotten to the bear yet I just said I had a mixed responses and no spoilers But they are over in a day and I feel like there's been more conversation you hear people talking about more movies you get more Tax message about movies you see lines outside of movie theaters people dying to get in I got to see F1 vroom vroom So yeah, it's been it's been a good year of movies and I ever since sinners. I've just been feeling really fired up I think early part of the year I was like yeah, black bags good But I don't know what else and now ever since it's like we've been on like real hot streak does feel that way That's been a recurring theme through some of these conversations today. So for you, you know sinners was off the board Black bag is off the board 20 years later is off the board. Yeah, I don't know if this those movies would have been your number ones I know you like them, but like so what is your number one favorite movie of the year so far materialists?

I've been I love you. I'm so I wanted to talk about something that I usually wouldn't get a chance to talk about on the show I mean I've talked about we're fair talked about 28 years later. I love sinners like yeah I guess numerically it wouldn't be my number one movie of the year But this is just an example of like a pretty I would say the best part about this year is it's been interesting and it hasn't been boring I've had lots of years where I've been like I admire the craftsmanship But Jesus Christ tears are coming out of my eyes and that's one thing you can't say about materialist Well, I'm sure some people may have felt like they were watching old people eat with this movie Like I found myself at least deeply deeply deeply engaged I think a lot of that has to do with the choices that slingsong made filmmaking wise But and also maybe some of our our performers made and their styles of performance which I'm sure is directed to do so But I found myself like talking thinking about this movie and then reading about it having a great time reading about people being extremely mad about This film Afterwards, so it's it's definitely I think it's something I hope people go check out and continue to talk about so we're three weeks out From from the great materialist The feedback is not done. I was personally confronted on Saturday night by two close friends with their opinions Okay, not just a materialist but of our podcasts about materialist because people are engaged They were excited to see this movie.

They thought it was gonna be one thing. They got another they were outraged And so I just it Chris is right everyone wants to share their opinion about this very loudly I had a fun journey to this movie Yeah, I'll tell you about it because I hear a lot about I wasn't expecting this and this was not the movie that was sold to me Reverse for me. I read everything and listen to you guys before I saw the movie And I think it actually helped in the case of materials because you don't get the rope it Oh, you don't get the classic Celine song okidoke, which we've come to expect I went in the movie studio for the record, but yeah, of course But if you go into this movie and expect it to be a little bit more like how hardly or what stillman than Nancy Myers I think it plays a lot better It makes a lot more sense if you understand that there's like an affectation going on to the acting and that it's very like literary And it's right or dense I'm maybe not literary but very dense writing style with the dialogue and then about 20 minutes into the movie I noticed something because it's set in New York City and in a very social part of New York City weddings dates restaurants Street corners you can't hear a thing she makes this really interesting choice to zero out background noise So that all you hear are these whispered conversations between these actors And then I found myself deeply focused on what they were talking about even though I didn't really think it was like reflective of a character or like that these were real people quote-unquote But it just got my brain going in this interesting direction that rarely happens in a big summer movie This was my positive spin on the movie. It's a really good idea movie It's a really fun movie to think about and take apart even though those things that were taught like we are very now Comfortable like the acting in this movie is bad.

You know like just outwardly saying that was something usually say on on Pods I think it's because we hold Celine song in some esteem and we hold like a smart urban drama in a certain level of esteem But anybody who's lost a mother while they were in the Amazon researching spiders I think we owe them respect and deference. I couldn't agree more and she's obviously still experiencing that trauma And that explains why she is the way that she is in the film But I agree to I think the writing is actually quite interesting and I think it's okay that it is at times inhuman Right, you know that there is a kind of Philosophy textbook quality is the text of the film right like it's like all the ideas of the movie are actually the characters in the And the people are merely like the vessels for that But and then they also look pretty for the most good and then there is good music Yeah, I I that they are chess pieces in her in her you know playwriting turned You know serialize exploration of love triangles and cinema But but that's okay, and you know I found myself at this dinner And I my friend Erin like sent me a text to apologize next day and it's okay You were like you made some great points, but I found myself defending like not only that it was an idea movie But like the ideas itself I was like I don't know it's you know it is Jane Austen it's either for it It's this like long tradition of The the romantic world as like a financial and status stand in for women and like I guess we're supposed to be past that But are we and like how do people think about that and to me? I like because I've watched literally every single other movie and read almost all the other books in that tradition I find it interesting other people didn't care so much, but that's okay. Let me ask you this Chris I know you're not the world's greatest romantic comedy expert But the exasperation that the romantic comedy faithful have around the movie does that indicate that we should also just be Greenlighting significantly more rom-coms movie theaters like that's an obvious takeaway, right?

Yeah, I mean I think just a maybe like a broader genre like policy in general would be good But yeah, I definitely think if you took away like three tongue-in-cheek John Wick rip-offs and made Like a more expensive version of whatever Netflix Amazon or Apple rom-com we get twice a year I don't know I mean I also really just appreciated the fact that lover Hater like one movie just like another movie So obviously really talented really interesting I mean I think past lives was something that affected people a little bit more deeply and personally and had a more emotional curve to it But this was like provocative to me I mean now people might be like yeah provocative in a sense. I want to throw it in a dumpster But I think that's cool like I think it's cool. Honestly, it may be kind of think of warfare a little bit too Where it's just like yeah, it's kind of neat to have movies that people are like I like this on fire I hate it. Yeah, it's way better to have that feeling than be like I guess Valerie had some cool scenes I couldn't agree more with that position and the idea there being some division in point of view on whether a movie works Or not and even the writing that's been critical of the film which I think a lot of it is very entertaining It's like that writing is entertaining because people are being Engaged in a different way like oh, yes another CGI slopfest where a car drives the mobility And then lands on the moon.

It's like no, it's like this is I you're reacting because maybe you don't want the world to be like this Or you do want the world to be more like something and I think that that's fascinating It's what I want movies to do more of I couldn't agree more I've also noticed that I'm sure you have that Celine song has kind of with the movie being able to elevate herself out of the typical Kind of movie discourse into yes appearing on the modern love podcast for the New York Times I'm like becoming the subject of a kind of discourse that is more national not just kind of entrenched in Hollywood 824 All that stuff that passed lives was kind of dominated by and even within like film culture I did notice that my friends who are you don't listen to this podcast bless them We're also like I would like to go see materialist. I have an opinion about this I have heard from everyone in my life about this movie which is what movies are back and materialist at this point being like So divisive I guess or at least it's inspiring such reaction is another way of saying like yeah, everyone is paying attention to movies So that's good. C.R. Thanks, buddy.

You're welcome guys. We'll see you soon come home only when we'll have time is back Joanna Robinson this year pod princess of the ringer podcast network. Oh princess Yeah, I was of our prestige TV podcast. What other pods you want?

You know this one as much as I can be you know just try and infiltrate where I can hello speaking of infiltration Yeah, a useful word for your selection before we get to your selection good movie here. Have you been enjoying yourself mixed me bad? Mixed but with a message that is exciting like the things that are hitting are really interesting to me. That makes sense What do you mean by that?

You know we're about to talk about an original mid-budget film and whether or not those can succeed and in some cases They have succeeded this year and that's really exciting for what we might look at going forward It's not just IP stuff to talk about this year that makes sense of the box office. So no you're very relieved about that I am though. I'm with Joe. It's like mixed positive so far.

She stole what I would have picked Oh, had I yeah, I think I think probably my on-paper number one for sentimental and personal reasons. So that's okay. I think you've just given it away What is it? What's your pick Joanna?

Oh, it's black bag. It's it's Steven Soderbergh. It's Cait Blanche It's Michael Fassbender. It's buys its marriage.

It's wigs. It's turnalects. It's everything I think I knew that. I think I knew that.

I think I knew that. I think I knew that. It's a really good one though. Like it's like got supporting building.

It's a It's a great film. So you know we did an episode about this movie and now this was a film that was a real problem for this show Because I knew that like a billion people weren't gonna go see it. Right and it's all in the telling right It's all in the plotting and the elegance of the story unloading and like you don't want to spoil a movie like that for people on a podcast It's been like four months since it came out Do we feel that the world has watched black bag? Can we talk about it freely at this point?

I mean, I feel like a we could talk about it freely really but I also don't think people are watching black bag or have watched it And that's part of why we're here I think to promote something that people haven't like decided to check out yet But they can they can press pause and podcast right now and go watch it and only 90 minutes later. They will be done So I need beautifully orchestrated wonderfully shot slick 90 well performed I know everyone's everyone's everyone's doing great. Yeah, and it's available to watch at home And then you can say yay movies. I'm let's just talk about that Did you maybe I don't get to deepen your problem?

I thought this was like an amazingly well cast movie and it does feel like All Stephen Spielberg move or seems to work movies now feel like they are like I'm almost watching him make them in real time because of what we know about the way that he produces the movies where he you know produces shoots and it's and directs the movies and cuts them in real time and that that idea being in my head makes It feel like the movie is happening in real time to me, you know, I'm kind of like a Metatextualized my experience of watching it this movie is clearly in homage to a certain kind of 60s There's the emperies in 70s spy thriller But it also feels like a very modern relationship drama. What was it about it that clicked for you Joanna? Yeah, I love a spy movie. I love a marriage inside of a different genre movie I'm a huge mr.

Mrs. Smith fan I'm only I love the thin man movies, you know, like all of this is paying a watch that But I think what's been so interesting to hear you can sort of work talk about You have the screenwriter talk about is how who's afraid of Virginia wolf was their main influence for this movie and and it's got these banger dinner scenes And you can just see that dynamic inside of just so he feels very slick very oceans very, you know, high gloss the thing that You know, Stephen Soderber gave interviews after this movie came out and didn't do very well about how the audiences didn't show up for this movie the way that he hoped they would or they needed them to or the way, you know we could deliver a message to wider Hollywood of these are the kinds of movies people show up for and they didn't for this movie and You know his theory was something about, you know, original movies or something like that But I worry that Stephen Soderbergh in doing so many Directive video, you know, he had his Netflix deal and then his HBO Max deal Like I feel like Stephen Soderbergh did a disservice to the idea of a Stephen Soderbergh film It doesn't feel as big as it I think it should he made a bunch of small movies Nothing wrong with a small movie But when you try to make something like this with a 50 million dollar budget, it's not massive But it's you know, they have to make their money back It's not two million dollars, which has been you know, so his other budgets recently and then it just doesn't feel like an event the way that it really deserves You I think there's definitely something to that I I Respect the fact that he wanted to just continue working through COVID and so one of the reasons why he signed that HBO Max deal I think was just to kind of continue to put films out I think those films are now gonna end up a little memory hold for some people because they're only on that service and They don't have physical media representation and so movies like this Maybe don't feel as much of an event but I think it also goes back even to like Logan Lucky and kind of his return post retirement and thinking that he had kind of cracked In paradigm of how to release movies like that, right? And that didn't really work out all that well And I just think there's something to the fact that he likes a certain kind of adult drama He's making movies for grown-ups and the grown-ups who watch Stephen Soderbergh movies are watching them at home And maybe they'll do PVOD like maybe they'll pay for it But like probably not they'll just they'll just rent it and they'll check it out and be like that was really great Yeah, I agree And I think the things that are encouraging this year the sinners and the 28 years later They're all kind of like attached to a little bit more spectacle and this is not a spectacle right? It is like it's sharp and cool and really smart, but it's not there's not a lot of whiz bang in black bag It's not vampires and it's not zombies, but it is spies and it is movie stars right and I think that We might just not be in that air anymore And it's not that I disagree with what you said about his approach is just thinking about like how stubborn You know Chris R.

Nolan was like the people who are so stubborn about my movie needs to feel like an event There are movies still feel like events. Yeah, and for Soderbergh who chose to do something different It's interesting But when you really need it to come through and feel like an event it did it for people and that's you bad because this movie I thought was just really phenomenal. I had such a good time I did too I think it's interesting to think about in the arch of his career too because he wasn't he's certainly the oceans guy in the traffic I mean he's also the bubble guy in the full frontal guy And you know he always is kind of on these like digressions and discursions through whatever kind of distribution style He's making within the kind of movie that he's making and maybe he's I don't know lost some standing in the mind of the movie goer I'm not really sure just in he wanted to keep working through covid as you said But like this is a man who likes to work This is the second Stephen Soderbergh film of the year that was you know there was also presence That's quite good He and there is something to the way that he makes movies and the way that he likes to make movies which is not that It is there's just a lot of them He wants to keep trying stuff he wants to be in the moment and so that is but I think just like the volume and the Experimental like oh let's do this. Let's try this.

What if we did this does sort of run counter to what is we've been waiting 45 Years and I had to you know carry the film canisters Like shit by myself. Yeah, right? That's great But it's like part of the Stephen Soderbergh experience is like oh look like and another great movie Yeah, I couldn't believe it was an announcement that he's got another film premiering a TIFF I was like what the fuck yeah, what is he doing? Oh, he's reading every single great work of literature.

It is really amazing. Um the movie itself We've had a bit of a Michael fast-bender comeback here. He's kind of playing the same character and everything he's been doing recently I didn't spend a ton of time with the agency the American remake of your own. Yeah, did you watch it Joanna?

I did yeah, we covered it on prestige And I thought it was fine But yeah the agency felt like just completely fine and this feels actually quite special to me Yeah, and this the agency is what I was worried This is going to be and then this wound up being a bit more special than that So yeah, yeah, I think I this and the killer I think are two of like his best performances. They are playing a very similar tune Yes, like massive restraint process the expression of intellect Yes, that's kind of suavity sure finter and soda burger also Sumpadico and that let's just like let's a respect for getting this done exactly right Yeah, and then and and maybe not showing all our emotional cards all at once though I do find this I find black back to be incredibly romantic which says a lot about me I guess but no It's it's like in a deeply demented fun way Yeah, it's very romantic like him talking to her about what he would do for you know The premise of the film being and this is just premise not twist but premise of the film being that there is a leak at the agency Yes, to investigate fellows eyes and one of the people on the short list is his wife Catherine played by Kate Lynch and so he is both investigating But also has a vested interest in there like obsessed with each other. Yeah, and and that comes through It's not cold and chilly actually it's like it is reserved an elegant and precise But there is this sort of underneath obsession with each other and then the messiness of the other spies around them The frailties of the other spies around them. I think it just makes it really really potent for me Poting for me is Marissa Bella Very pleased to see her bounce back after back to black and we'll like to see her in more films Her toad toad it's so with fast-bender I thought very amusing as someone who kind of can't hold it together in the face of his his chill his cold This movie is incredible supporting cast of where tambourg is excellent in this very very funny It's a very funny movie as well.

I'm very knowingly written in a lot of ways And pierce Brosnan also and Naomi Harris like the terrific has his rotation on pager issue. Yeah, okay a little bit What's the issue? That's I just I don't totally want to split for everyone but like When he has to play his role You know, okay, that's okay. He's not at the level of everybody else around the table He needs to feel like a credible threat to fast-bender character Just in terms of all the various machinations and he and he doesn't really like a tambourg would feel like more of a credible threat Yeah, I think that that's the one of the key wrong footing moments of the movie is you think that this is going to be tambourg Confessment or toe-to-toe and in fact, it is not that movie at all Joining a great pick.

This is a really really good movie. This is without a doubt one of the I think probably our collect It's all five movies of the year. Can I can I just say I love doing this podcast with you every year? This is the third year in a row that rob Mahoney has sniped my actual number one Listen, it's like take the complaints to rob you see a more than we know No, no, no, I am not complaining to you.

I he is our first time on this episode It's and yeah, it is a big pick for tradition in a way that Rob hears everyone over I had lunch with Rob yesterday. Here's what he told me. He was like, I'm just fast on the slack response And I was like that's true. He's just the quickest on the slack response when someone sends out a message saying What's your best movie the year so far?

I would say that this was also vans his was also vans number one and van added a note of socio-cultural Like knowledge to rob sniping, you know, jakle connelling down the rocket was a Dublin Here's a true story of I texted Rob after after jack told me what had I even taken and I was like wow Rob This is the first year you didn't take my number one pick and he's like what do you mean? I was like yeah, van took it. He was like I took sinners I was like oh, I assume to van go sinners. I was like you got sinners.

You know like yeah, I was like okay I'll go look at the mirror about that. Okay, but um, yeah, exactly but but he said this would have been his number two So we're all okay. Yeah about black bag Joanna. Thank you.

This was a great pick. Thanks for having me Charles Holmes is here. No, I'm the quarter of the midnight boys. Okay, best move.

Is we could move here for you? How you feeling? Yes, because I just saw f1 just saw Jurassic world rebirth Did you like rebirth? Don't tell us any details but did you like it because we haven't seen you just like a do a gladiator like put it out and then How's it those up for the listeners at home?

I was just saying it is in the same Not equality but just like f1 both of those rooms. I'm just like okay. We can make blockbusters Like you can get from point a to point me a point c. Okay, I'm not saying that the movie has Necessarily like rebirth life into the Jurassic Park series.

Okay. Hey, it's better than all the That's good. Do you think that I need to rewatch any of the previous I remember the events of Jurassic world 1993 but anything after that do I need to rewatch to know where I am? No, literally the thing van said walking out where he's just like yeah, they just got of course So waking say no, okay, you just need to watch the originals and you're like, oh, I get it You're a legendary hater too.

So this is like a mixed positive is a pretty big positive for most I'm just at the point where I'm like when I go to the movies. I'm just like, oh, I'm glad There's the only place I wanted to be in a lot of movies recently just guys you've forgotten it and f1 and Jurassic world Not perfect movies. She was like movie stars doing shit. Oh, yeah, okay All right, I'm happy to hear that.

So but you did not pick either of those movies one movie Did you select? I picked uh the most cursed comedy of the year friendship? Yes, please. Let's talk about it I I picked this one because I feel like it It kind of located something I'm huge fan of comedy that I've been noticing that's been in the work of Nathan Fielder on the rehearsal Seth Rogen with the studio and friendship Which is like either they all have a similar line or similar moment where these like 40 plus your old men are like what are the rules?

And just kind of that like that All of these are about different things, but I'm like oh, they're locating something that I'm seeing in my old friends and my younger friends And just everybody in general, which is just like, how do I not get canceled? But also how do I get my friend group and also how do I like not offend anybody? And it's just All of these comments and especially friendship just located in such a funny Interesting disturbing it was almost a hard movie for me to watch Because I've had to have talks with my friends who are like I've been in relationships a long time and their friends have moved away They're like how do I make friends? And I'm just like oh we got the version of this movie in 2009 with Paul Rudd and Jason Segal And now we get the darker version with Tim Robinson So were you at Tim Robinson fan before this movie?

Did you watch? I think you should leave? Yes Houston Robinson Troiders Did you watch Detroit or did you watch Detroit or watch the um the Netflix show and the funniest thing is like Locating where Tim Robinson isn't the like comedy firmament is when I was in LAX the last time I saw Tim Robinson with his family and he's the type of celebrity where like a person was a high-level part He's just like Tim Robinson like nobody noticed him all I saw it was like a sketch There's just a little old lady who didn't know how to use the airport kiosk to check out all this stuff Yeah, and it's just like Tim Robinson. No, you gotta do it like His teenagers are just like No one's pointing at him.

No one's pointing at him. No one's like You're just like an old lady like what this guy is just working you and that it's interesting where I'm like He is what the top five comedian in the United States in terms of like fame and gang stuff made But he can still walk through LAX Yeah, his orneryness is like kind of a feature that's sort of the point of a lot of it But you said that a lot of your friends are maybe experiencing some of this angst sure men have in 2025 Before we started recording we were having a conversation about Charles's Charles's weekend And the various you know social conundrums that you found yourself in and people not knowing how to act and people not picking the right places I mean I also I went what was I had a friendship weekend where I had a male friend who was turning 40 Who doesn't drink as much so he was having like a house party? Okay, we were relaxing karaoke and then it was like by 10 11 it was like all my 34 year old friends were single and I'm just like This is depressing we're just looking out like getting fucked up and that's how friendship felt because they're the moment when they're like Oh, we're gonna go see a marvel. That is literally my life just in general when I just meet like let's say I have like a girlfriend she brings her boyfriend He's like oh what are you talking about?

I used to get a pretty good pretty good That's what kind of being 30 40 is like starting to feel like so you do relate to this movie I feel like I've been the timbros in here there That's right because you knew when you hired me. I was in New York Yeah Moved here You're a transplant you have to make a new friends making know what like they tell you we have all these movies But like making friends in your 30s is the wildest experience ever We'll walk us through what you're experiencing because we did talk about this when we talk about the movie on the show It's a fascinating thing men and women have to have to deal with this I do think I mean I thought this was like a very funny movie But I read it as a sociological text so I'm with Charles And it is very specifically about the challenges of men right now making friends We actually do have a lot of how hard and miserable it is to have female friends movies But you guys get your moment and it seems fried I feel free it's fraught But it's also the intensity of two 30 plus your old men or three or four Finding someone this late in life that they connect with is such a relationship in itself Because it's just like oh like all of us have the same story It's like oh well my best friend is back in New York or than the Chicago where they're having kids It's just like locating someone where it's like oh I can ask you to go to the movies with me I can ask you to get a beer with me And then when you have that first fight it's like it's the funny thing is all your friends are like You guys you need to be embarrassed? Okay, like and that's what this movie felt like where else is like oh All fights of men at this age are that dumb where it makes no sense It's just like I broke some taboo we tried to meld our friend groups together Right and you're just like oh we're not in college and we can't Also, we don't actually like talk about it with words No, we only talk about it through unspoken like social rituals of ostracization and One of the things in this movie is that there is one conversation that Paul Rudd has with Tim Robinson When he's basically like officially breaking up with him right he comes to the door and he confronts him and he's like He has some fun, but it's over and that was a very resonant moment for me because I've been broken up as a friend But very quick to slip Yeah, you're the one breaking up I'm probably more just like quietly goes away over time That's really more my move but making new friends in my 40s at least is the closest I will ever get to dating Like I haven't really been dating in 20 plus years So I don't the rituals of do I text you or do you text me or do I put myself out there and say let's make a plan That like the anxiety that comes from that this movie is like that you know to a teeth like at 10 the whole time And see Robinson also, you know, I mean look at the man's face right there Like me is no one believes in that confidence You know what I mean? It's like an absence of confidence that is rippling through which I think it's pretty representative of how a lot of guys feel right now And it's just it's this awkward feeling of I was thinking about the movie that Paul Rudd was in I love you man, which was like that was at a time in like the Judd Apatow Yes, type where it's just like and even Jackass I remember watching that movie as a kid and having two thoughts I'm like fucking 40 year olds gonna have friends.

They have to make new friends. I'm never gonna be there But also that feeling of like We are no longer in that era of comedy where it's like Will Ferrell we're gonna be boys forever Like our buddy comedies aren't even like that our step-brothers are super bad that like hey guys we're teenage forever I'm like I don't end up in a garage but I do end up at this like third space where we're like All right, can we go watch you play the drums and that is like that to me isn't just like a male friendship thing You're like oh, you don't know how to like hang out. Yeah, no how to like go to a bar. You talk to each other and have interest It's like the only interest we have is like marble It's a great pick any lingering feelings or concerns about men that you have any aftermath After watching friendship, but you know, I do now watch it in the context of raising the next generation So that's pretty troubling You know everything I do is to try to avoid a situation Where my sons are in a garage screaming?

This is a marvel spoiler like marvel spoiler free zone. No marvel spoilers Sorry, it's coming Were they all to sing my boo acapella with their closest friends? You would you would enjoy it? I would feel a sense of accomplishment.

I would feel a connection So I said thinking about you at a 40 year old I mean I think I have the women at the party which turned this shit off. Oh my gosh. Yeah friendship. Yeah, beautiful.

Great. Thank you, Charles Hell yeah So honored to be joined by the face of the ringer Mallory Reuben as recently decreed by bandlathan Rachel Lindsey and frankly all of America, would you agree? Yes Mal, how do you feel? I feel that we all know the truth Which is that every single person alive thought it should be Chris except for Rachel So I'd like to say thank you to Rachel true story.

I ran into Rachel in the way today She's returned to the United States of America and she was on a shamed her decision making and I think she feels good about making a point to Chris That he's not he's not all he's always cracked up to be wow, you know There are there's some flaws in the design and you filled those flaws now Was this was this the same conversation where we were briefly confused at the same person because of the hair length? Because you were wait women. Yeah, right? Yeah, listen I've I've been saying it since uh little tiny headshots were first introduced on the ringer a decade ago And since our voices started making it out into the world being confused for Amanda Dobbins is the honor of a lifetime I feel so No complaints come in and yell at me about sports takes that I don't really understand, you know or being like you got this wrong The shield that someone uses and something and I'm like this I you know, I don't know take it up with Mal every now And then I get some very confusing messages about a celebrity culture thing that I I'm like did I have a stroke and I have no recollection of having said This and a public forum which is entirely possible Just complaining to you both before we started about my back pain.

So I guess I'm at that age And then I realized oh no this must be something I'm going to set on Jon's session You will always be two beautiful individual snowflakes to me. Thank you so much. Thank you and you're specific and Resolving in my hand at all times. Yeah, that's how we both feel about it Yeah, but I would like to thank uh, I would like to thank van and Rachel Um the thought warriors and every everyone else who's just waiting a year for for grister's to receive the trophy that we already deserves Yeah Okay, Mal best movies of the year good movie are you enjoying it bad movie or you're having a nice?

Great time. Yeah, I have been to the movie theater a lot recently, which I know you know you guys both know me very well I'm a real like unless absolutely forced to uh to do the contrary I'll stay at home in pajamas for as long as humanly possible, but it's been really fun to go to the theater and uh, you know Explore some some different confections at the concession stand and test out some different screens I've been on a real Dolby kick. That's been fun. We're having a blast with Dolby Listen, I managed at the last second to snag and after texting you guys bitching about the fact that I could not find such a ticket I managed to snag In response to the urgent request for Megan she started to join her on the the ringer f1 show to talk about f1 the movie I managed to snag an iMAX ticket It's just fun to go to the movies and see movies on a big screen, but it's fun.

You know, yeah, they're very back And it's just wonderful and one way you know that they're back is that we are now regularly getting screenshots of seating charts Um, I've been sending a lot of those from now And various theaters around Los Angeles and I'm like, okay, so if that's where this is where Mary is Here's what I'm prepared to say right now I am willing to stop sending you screenshots of various open or taken seats and in exchange from now through next March We'll only text you about Project Hilary Listen, yeah open. We like I can't even tell you so we saw that at cinema con Okay, let me set the scene for you by saying that it was an evening Uh presentation in Las Vegas and so I had had exactly two nogronis And then I sat down in my seat and then it was a cold open. No one came out. No one introduced anything They just they knew they had it so hard that they just project You know, they gave us the trailer for proud to tell Mary and then Ryan Gosling was there in front of us upon the stage Incredible and I like I felt my soul leave my body back in April We were not that's movies when we went there and then when they showed that I was like, I think I think this is the moment when we turn the corner And lo and behold, we have turned the corner and we have we have good movies now, which is very exciting So what movie did you choose now?

I chose a Very just gentle Calm subtle. Yeah, a quiet family drama for all family film called 28 years later The latest from Danny Boyle and Alex Garland back together again reunited in the 28 verse I thought this movie was absolutely sensational. I loved it and I loved the pod that the two of you and Chris did about it I had a blast talking to Joe about it. I really love 28 days later as many do I have fun ever so often watching The second film in the franchise that I think has largely been rendered moot by itself That's how often I'll be revisiting in the future But I really just like I love Alex Garland movies because every now and then one of them I consider just like an absolute genuine masterpiece sex, I'm not gonna etc And even the Garland stories whether it's something that he's directing show running writing that don't work for me that I don't find myself enjoying and that maybe even I'm like actively in some way repelled by they just take root in me and lead me to like such a Contemplative state that I really I admire basically everything that he does as a result of that And I just thought that this was like a visually stunning Return to this world great cast alphie Williams a spike like holy fuck I had absolutely no idea that young spike was gonna be basically the main character in the movie And I thought that he was sensational One of the great loves of my life like what an absolute joy to be in the temple with him always and more ways than one And I just thought this movie was exceptional You don't miss him.

You don't miss a step out Mel goes to the phone Thanks Uh, yeah, we love this movie too and I'm kind of surprised a little bit by the overwhelming positive reaction to it I know that there's a lot of players involved that we have a lot of warm feelings towards but it is quite an audacious movie I mean as a real tonal clash. It's really violent. It's really crazy. The even the zombie stuff is quite intense and um You know explicit.

I would say there's there's zombie dick. There's zombie birth There's all kinds of things that we're kind of like we're entering the final stage right zombie storytelling I feel in some ways I also think you know now you you covered the last of us really closely And I wonder if this movie operates in kind of like a In-opposite emotional tenor to that tv series Which I think people were kind of like a little bit more mixed on the second season And so they're like the thrilling thrash of 28 years later might have been a little bit of a bomb in the aftermath of that season What do you think? Great point in question. I mean I think that like in general in any sort of I know that the filmmakers would not want us to use the term zombie Um, but in any sort of dystopian tail featuring the infected You know the you're gonna hit at some point inevitably I think a moment where you were confronted with the real monsters or other people Right, like that's that is a core aspect of this type of genre storytelling And so you know as always the case with any type of story the degree of success is gonna be determined by the execution and how compelled we are by the Relationships inside of the story now in 28 days later when we watch like killing Murphy's character Jim weak up that is very that's another type of story I really love like that is more about found family right rooting yourself in an unexpected relationship so that you can make it forward another day I would say that that is like more I can't ultimately do how we enter last of us 28 years later everything happens on holy island The causeway obviously again, this is like visually astonishing as a place to set this film With that question about then like what community have you built and what are you trying to protect and why and what do the inhabitants of that What happens to that world?

You don't understand about it. I thought that was there are plenty of comps there I think between the last of us whether it's the stretch in uh Jackson Wyoming or elsewhere where like the question of what your role in sustaining a community is and then How your perspective shifts when you walk outside the walls? Um, I thought that was also amazing like as you noted this is a deeply explicit and violent story But on some level it is like a coming of age story and it is a story about revelations and awakenings whether that is Spike having to confront, you know his father being a liar or confront who or what might be waiting just a few strides further across a given cressing hill Um when your perspective is that locked into one place and that place equates to the ability to sustain human life Like that's just a really fascinating setting and dynamic for a film and then I thought like The other thing that I think is not similar between this at all and last of us is like in last of us Not much of a spoil. This is the premise of the story like the quarter steps infection just takes over the world and that's it's like that's it To open this movie and again, this is like some of the where the reckoning to the second film takes place because that ends with like Your experience is like a clock clock Oh, whoops And the idea the idea here that the rest of the world has just quarantined the united kingdom and left everybody there to like either figure it out or not I found so unbelievably harrowing and in some ways much more disturbing than seeing like a spinal column ripped out of a head Body it was just like what that says about people in humanity was that's like real garland stuff to me And the current geopolitical state of growth, right?

It has final columns and it has ideas And you know, I do think some people still just go to the movies for the spinal columns and for zombie dick And if you go for that, you are getting your money's worth and then maybe you leave with you know some expanded ideas about You know how we live in a society, but um we do live in a society. Yeah, we do Alex Carla movies do be saying that they do say we live in a society, you know, and they have incredible foresight But we don't know how and don't always understand it They don't always give us the conclusions to those societies But um, yeah, I mean this is right near the top for me in terms of the first six months of the year This is probably my second favorite movie of the year right now and it's a great pick and I'm just you know as somebody who's um Origin story of los angeles is very neatly tied up in the movie sunshine. It's very excited I'm very excited that they're still working together and this is still something that you know They can make possible at the movies and I'm quite curious to see if we get we're definitely getting the second one in january Right the third one is a little tv based on the performance of the movie I guess the second one is also with respect to me the cost of not Danny Boyle and Alex garland working together And it's not you know two people bringing out the best in each other so let's enjoy this while we have it exactly now great Pick great to see you listen to melon house of all the f1 podcast you're the ringer What else are you on these days? Uh, you know who knows who knows just waiting to be invited to chat with my friends on big pick in the watch Okay, have you been on the watch one of you one was less than you're on the watch great question Something for christ to reflect on that's a candy problem.

I think Andy's blocking You want to come on jam session Before the summers out you want to you want to bring all your the celebrity dms to the table Sure, yeah, I would be thrilled. I don't know that I'm equipped to come on jam session But um, I would be delighted I would be delighted to try and it's always a pleasure and a thrill to be with you both Thanks for having me. I look forward to being back at the movies with you both and with jacoconnell at the start of next year Thanks. No, bye guys Mean pod guy returns adam naman our pal critic par excellence is here to talk about the best movie of the year so far So do you want to share any of your like runners up before you give us your pick?

Uh, I think I saw one of them the other day wrote about it for the site Which is 28 years later. What a what a what a impressive piece of filmmaking pretty darn good I know you guys have talked over it and there'll be more to say about it as the year goes on That's very moving and you know goofy and fun and I did not I guess I knew Danny boy I'll had it in him because these exact people did make this exact movie through a version of it 20 years ago But I didn't know they still had it in him. It's really good little redemption for your your guy Alex garland Who you've been just beaten up on over the years, you know what? It's I think I think it's just about the best script he's written And I will say to not not to Alex garland but about the script that is a that is a smart emotional Resident piece of screenwriting and it deals with aspects of history and culturing ways that are very smart And I just have to gotta give it up very happy here you say that Okay, well, what did you choose and how did you decide on the film that you chose?

Well, I had some taken away from me by you know other guests that are talking about what's covered And then the only reason I'm not going to talk about the shrouds by David Cronenberg is we talked about it already And I don't want the bit to be he only talks about the Toronto filmmaker for the record If I'm making a I think I'm doing a half-year list for this site You know, I mean that's the movie of the year and then probably will be for the end of the year for me But we've done that so you know whether it's 20 years later or the shrouds or friendship You know, these are movies that I've kind of talked about on the site already So I wanted to talk about one and to cheat you know a second movie Which I think I'm even more interested to argue with you about okay That even if I wrote about them elsewhere, I didn't write about Beringers my real pick which I think will also be on my year end 10 and just by a Absolutely amazing filmmakers caught by the tides by the Chinese director Shazh Anko One of the great contemporary filmmakers who's repurposed and reused and remixed 20 years of Some of his I guess behind the scenes footage or alternate takes or unused scenes It's really interesting to read about what the material is But he's taken that and made entirely new film out of it Which shows in some ways how similar his movies are narratively He's interested in movies about you know couples that break up or become separated And one kind of pursues the other across the country he uses the same actors But it's also a film that because it's essentially shot in real time Has been compared to people and it's a different kind of project But it's like boyhood the link later movie where you just simply see time at work over a 20-year period And so it's not production design. It's not a period piece It's just all the actual gradations of fashion and music and technology And it narrates this incredible history of a country kind of changing Where even if in the foreground you have this very minimal plot Of a woman sort of trying to find her boyfriend who has left her in this small town And kind of abandoned her and she's sort of chasing after him You know the plot is very simple. It's almost in a way a silent film There's very little dialogue in it a lot of the story is told through text But the background is sort of the protagonist And even just the way the third part of the film shows you 21st century technology And the way that the format that the movie itself is being shot on the different levels of film and digital video Like every second of it is just completely compelling on that level So yeah, I mean a very well-reviewed film played at festivals last year played at Cannes It's definitely a kind of art house pick But you know, I think I think Jaws career is sort of magnificent And seeing him revisit that career in the space of this one kind of shape-shifting time-traveling movie Would you know, it's gonna make my year-end list you saw him like I haven't seen it yet It has somehow eluded me through all the festival season And I want to say that one of the very first movies that we talked about on this show was Ash's Pierce White This is his first movie since that movie that was 2018 right around when you started coming on And I love that film and I've seen most of his movies in the 21st century But I definitely have not seen the early films and not even the early work when he started shooting this movie So the thing I wanted to ask you about for people who were listening at home and thinking about this You know, it would be very easy to start with a touch of Santa Mountains made apart He's made a number of acclaimed movies in the last 15 years Can you watch this new film and feel like you're getting it feel like you're getting its depth And you're like a deeper understanding of it if you haven't seen the last five Jean movies You know, it's a good question because honestly kind of not kind of yes kind of know because You know the way he shoots and the way he frames what say landscapes is inherently compelling And Jow Tao his consistent star, you know, his creative collaborator his partner One of the most beautiful and accomplished and expressive actresses I've ever seen I mean, you know, just watching her is amazing So I don't know if someone would watch Cott the tides if they were to watch Cott by the tides fresh I don't think they'd be bored. I think that it has that narrative hook It has this underlying emotionalism It's it is compelling even if you haven't seen his other movies if you understand that it's shot over a 20-year period You'll be alert to all that stuff But the nostalgia and the sense of just seeing an entire career in an artistic lifetime kind of distilled into you know, two hours I think that would be missing So I would say to your question is it kind of a hard movie maybe to watch cold But that means everyone should just go watch a couple of other Jean movies and then you can watch This one in that case you can never run out a good one I mean they're all most of them are amazing pickpocket the world unknown pleasures There's a great movie he made in 2006 called skill life, which is about the three gorgeous dam project and a big chunk of cop by the tides I think the biggest chunk of the movie Is footage from that period in 2006 where you essentially just see this entire community on the shores of the Yangtze River Just basically wash away and it's not a natural disaster It's a man-made construction project And if you've ever just wondered well, what does displacement look like?

This is documentary footage of what that kind of wide-scale displacement looks like And it has an eerie feeling of a kind of future prophecy as well Three gorgeous climate isn't climate change exactly But it gives a little snapshot of what some things might look like going forward And you know he just he's so attuned to the way that history works the title of the movie is about history It's what that idea being caught up in this kind of larger almost kind of oceanic pattern And you know parts of the movie are very funny it actually has my favorite use of like robots and AI In any movie that I've seen this year there's a whole passage toward the end that's kind of like a live-action version of wallie Like a live-action kind of documentary version of wallie and the whole last part was Shot during covid as well So again reality never kind of totally disappears in his in his work And I think it's got the widest distribution of any of his movies because it came out via SciShow so like they were pushing it, you know, he traveled with the film he did Q and As in the US It had a good trailer So while it's never going to be as big a movie on this kind of year end or half year end list as talking about, you know, f1 It is possible that people could see it It's not asking too much of people to seek it out and find out when it's on streaming It's a great recommendation. I would imagine it's going to come to the criterion channel at some point probably in the fall I would guess And maybe still kicking around in some art houses out there Yeah, I think criterion is a good guess And again, I think one of the nice things about this show is you talk about movies of all kinds You're always very you know conscientious about telling people to see, you know, that which is not all that immediately or instantly available So I hope that people who are listening are motivated and curious to check it out The other movie I want to talk to you about is one that you gave two and a half stars on Letterbox and I like far more than you Let's fight. What is it? No, let's focus on which is Jean-Collette Sarah's a woman in the art Which I like a lot and I know that it's a I try not to say that it's a bit Because tourism isn't a bit like if tourism is a problem, then you know, we have a big problem But I love this filmmaker and I like this way more than his Netflix baggage claim movie Which I thought was kind of fun and impersonal this one I thought was really emotional expressive kind of formally gorgeous Horror and you my friend were not on board.

We're not really you weren't fully on board the the gel The jcs express on this one. Yeah, broadly speaking. I'm a big fan of jcs. He was on this show some years ago I liked talking to him.

He's obviously an incredibly dynamic formal filmmaker He's got great aesthetics He tries things in studio movies that very few filmmakers would consider trying and he's like a he's an assignment director You know, he he's someone you call when you've got a nifty script that is very fungible for somebody with some big ideas I just thought the woman in the yard was Yet another studio horror programmer shot in one location That was like a little bit more bereft of ideas than I wanted it to be and a little bit too stuck on the kind of post trauma Narrative train that just way too much horror is attached to right now And so it just didn't feel like I so I liked the moves he was making in the movie and I felt like a lot of the strategy was immersive But I didn't think the script was very good and I'm usually a very big Daniel deadwiler fan But I saw that character was like deeply one-dimensional and so I was just a little bit down on it As you know, I don't really talk too much about movies and I'm really down on even especially filmmakers who I actually broadly like their work But jcs I'm it's been kind of a kind of a weird five or six years for me. He got linked up with the rock I didn't really like what came out of that. I also was not huge on carry-on. I thought it was fine Um, so also also an assignment movie very very much and it wore that assignment movie thing I think but maybe not intentionally but it was kind of a movie Someone who was like trying to buy into the program.

Yes, I really want to be a cop and it's like, okay I mean, I don't know that that's what I want to see to be about at the moment But I thought what I like about when in the yard and it's interesting. It's not not not not to disagree But just to develop the idea of deadwiler there was an interview I think Robert Sweeney did a great critic with the writer of the film and I did not know how invested deadwiler was in the project like Very much a drive-in kind of creative force within it And I believe that it's her artwork in the film with the character I mean, it's not really a movie about vocation It's about a woman in the yard that haunts a family But I mean her character is a painter and there's a lot of this kind of the the art direction of the film or the Museum on Sunday movies dominated by these painting and something about that when I heard about it It tied to what I felt was Something pretty inhabited about deadwilers performance And I loved the way that she interacted with the other actress within the cast the kind of physical interaction They have towards the end of the movie this idea of a manifestation of grief or kind of impulse I don't want to spoil the movie But I just loved watching the wakey choreographed the the bodies and the physicality of these actresses in the home stretch I thought more than scary it was kind of in a horror register that I respond to which is kind of like a melancholy horror movie It's very sad movie. It is a very sad movie It is notably shot by pobble pugaresky who shot the last three You can feel it. There's a sequence in the attic where I'm like that's part of what I was holding against it I'm like this is kind of just hereditary for Blumhouse, you know, like I don't know that it was as developed as I wanted it to be Adam I think no, I think that I mean it's fair.

I wouldn't have brought it up But I didn't think you know I read your very smart letterbox piece. That's why I brought it up But when we're talking about form I mean I think for me the form in this one carries, you know And I think it is true that you know in some ways he's kind of an impersonal director and assignment based director But to me he connected to something in that character and that performance and that idea Maybe of using a very expressive visual form to make a movie about a character who is sort of trying to channel something through their own kind of artwork I mean, I don't want to make ridiculous claims for it But with the exception of the boil film of all the studio horror I watched this year I think I liked it the most but I had a very good time last night at megan 2.0 Haven't seen yet, which is basically Terminator 2 for the megan movies and a lot of fun the audience I saw with was going bonkers They thought it was hilarious. That's great to hear. I'm gonna see it this weekend.

So I'm happy about that That's my that's my report from the trenches. Thank you very much I'll have you know JCS is next making a remake of cliffhanger starring lily james So one and in between there too, though. There's something called play dead. I saw a Uh, julie garyepi from our favorite film Post-it that she just made a movie with jcs So I'm like that's encouraging as well.

That is like the other thing I like with the guy He just keeps working. He does he does he's working tirelessly to get back to the extraordinary highs of orphan and he may never get there But may he try forever. I love orphan very much when I saw orphan back in 2009 The statute of limitations on spoilers for orphan I think is over right At the end so like when Vera Farmiga like kicks her kid into the ice and kills or whatever someone in the audience yelled and I I will never forget it. There's women yelled that's fucking right in the middle of the movie theater.

I was just like, yeah, oh, that's That's sentiment. That's what I want to yell anytime. Yeah, Adam movie. Thank you, my friend.

Appreciate you chipping on this one Absolutely, my pleasure. Good to see you. All right, we're joined by a very special guest. It's my little sister Grace fantasy grace.

What's up? So this isn't your first time on the podcast, but it might be your first youtube. Oh, yeah, it's my first time on camera Welcome to hell. How do you feel about it?

Um, I liked being in a room with no camera, but okay We're a full 20 some odd years younger than us. Yeah, so you're in slightly better standing visually Sure, you know, do you have takes do you have strong feelings about the year and movies and okay? Okay, I've I've elected my letterbox and I've seen like 12 of the new movies. Okay, so how do you determine what you want to go see at this stage of your Just graduate from college.

Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Um, you are a very avid movie watcher.

Yes, which your followers on the box will know But going to the movie theater, how do you choose? Um, it's kind of just who will see what with me because I will see kind of anything in theaters So I have an aim to membership. So that's my okay. I got it.

Love it for ads, but yeah, yeah, so it's I do too I'm too I will see anything I love seeing you watching trailers and getting excited for every movie that's coming out Do you find that your friends are mostly not interested in going to the movies at this point? Like um, is your boyfriend gonna go to movies? Like what does it work? My boyfriend goes like any movie I want to see because he's he's good But um, yeah, those are the rules.

Yeah, kind of too, but certain friends I have to like really pull to go see movies What do they watch? Um, well, I got one of my best friends to go see materials with me because I was like she would like a romance movie But when I see me 17 she was not about that. Okay, so it kind of just depends on the genre of each person Do you have to sell them on the story? Yes, is genre enough?

Um, I think I just saw one story too or like who's in it? Okay, who's in draw like I think Pedro is a big draw for some people. Sure. That's Pedro Pascal.

Yeah, she's on the first name Pedro is has a big summer. Yeah, so that's a good man to blaspheme his good name materialist Very clear both on the podcast and she raised last night at dinner that I respect Pedro Pascal as a person I just did not think he worked in materialists Uh, he is also going to be in edington and fantastic for first steps and he just concluded his run on the last of us season two And next year he'll be in the Mandalorian and grogu and he has something else when I forget him He's freaking everywhere and he's your favorite. He's like a 50-year-old man. What's going on with that?

Well, I'm eating it up everywhere. That is the best thing that could happen. Um, I watched him first and the last of us and I was like wow This guy's amazing. That's how you connected in the first place.

Okay, and then after that I was like, I need to watch everything he's in so I didn't get everything But yeah, I was gonna say does the Mandalorian count when you can't see him? Yes I did watch that show because I need to see more of him, but no it actually wasn't but presence presence So a Pedro movie is not at the top of your list We some movies were taken before you could choose your favorite from this year So like you couldn't take sinners for example as someone took sinners was taken from everyone by Ramahoni Yeah, we've been getting a lot of feedback on that. Yeah, he's a thief I think most people on this episode would have taken sinners. Yeah, um, you mentioned it he's 17 Yes, that was on your long list.

You liked it. I didn't even more than we did. Yeah, I wasn't I wouldn't say it was my favorite But I did enjoy it. I had a good time.

I left. I was like, all right. Good movie. Okay.

What else was on your list? Um materialist. Mm-hmm. I feel like it's not a problem.

But well, there's not a lot of discussion about it I think we're coming back around. Okay. You wanna you want to speak to the people? Um, yes So one of my problems with seeing like people's reaction to it was everyone was marketed as a rom-com.

Mm-hmm I didn't think that so like that wasn't a problem for me when I left and they're like it wasn't around come like that was a Pro-Mans movie. Yeah, so I think that was one of my main problems also broke me in propaganda Yeah, there's people who are very angry about that. We're like, why did she have a broke guy? Because she didn't love me.

Right. Yeah, so that was like had zero chemistry, but that's okay. Yeah, um, yeah Is that is that a is that a feature or bug in the film? I think it can be both in this case where I think maybe he could have Communicated some other things along with the lack of chemistry But I had never heard the phrase poverty propaganda before this film came out And then when we when you came over the other day and it was one of the first things you said to me during trip that you were just like I just broke me on propaganda.

I don't get it. I don't leave because when I saw poverty probably is like is that an active line of discourse? Well, like in online culture right now. I know I'm a hundred years old But yeah, are there people who are like it's very important for you to love a poor person?

I like I get it. It's like justification for being in a relationship. I understand that the line of thought but is that an active discussion point among people when they're choosing their partners? I I listen, I just don't think you should go on TikTok, you know, I Didn't it's like what the you know, the girlies are out here making names for themselves pointing to you know, the discourse has gone all sorts of ways So sure there are people like posting about anything that under the sun at this point.

Do you do you think about the wealth of your partner? I mean, I feel like the problem with everyone's reaction with it is I wouldn't want to date Chris Evans in that movie where he really has nothing like has no zero money So I understand that yeah, nobody wants to go to that apartment. Yeah, that's my nightmare personally But what about it as a proud independent woman? You could also help evolve his circumstances.

Yeah, I think that's like that's reasonable Yes, but she's only making eighty thousand dollars a year. Well, I know that doesn't make sense That's my primary issues with the film is that she's got a lovely apartment in New York and she makes a thousand dollars a year as a matchmaker I'm not in the fashion. That does not also align with that. She's very well dressed.

Yeah, okay So materialist is not your pick. It's not my pick. No, you liked it I did like it, but I wouldn't say like talk to me when you first started coming on the show you were deep deep deep in the MCU Yes, that was your favorite thing I think in the world that was peak time And I felt like it has slipped away from you a little bit as it has slipped in culture However, what movie did you pick? I chose Thunderbolts because I think Thunderbolts is a return to form for Marvel.

Okay, so what does that mean? So I've been kind of out of Marvel since like Spider-Man, no way home. Okay, but is that that's the three of them? Yes, and you didn't like that.

Okay, but after that after that, it's kind of like every once in a while you get like one movie where I was like, hey, that's pretty good Yes, I think is hopeful because I think it picked up all mistakes that they made in the past of introducing characters and then never seeing them again Yeah, but these characters they like okay, let's bring back the ones people like the ones people didn't like and put them together And I think it made a good team. That makes sense. What was your favorite part? Favorite part I think was the dynamic if you follow me on Letterbox, you know I'm a big fan of family and now it's like the whole trope Really did it for me interesting so when you say if you follow me on letterbox, you have like lists of like my favorite found family movies You don't follow her on letterbox.

No, I never seen you publish a list. I've only seen you log movies No, but if a movie is a family that's probably in my reviews like it's a found family movie. Oh, yeah I do in the works on you're not really movies. I'm doing the work I'm having you right now to communicate about your love for found movies I had a very similar reaction to Thunderbolts and you were more positive on it than I think even you expected to be yeah, absolutely I think that you know Marvel maybe never had me so then they lost me a very long time ago But yeah, I thought it was far and away just technically it was competent and enjoyable in a way that most of the recent movies have just Kind of been impenetrable.

Yeah to me as a movie fan Do you follow the fact that the movie was considered somewhat of a disappointment the box office and then the kind of like ramifications of things like that? Or do you just not care about those? No, see that actually didn't make me disappointed because I was like it should have done better But people already out on it. Yeah, yeah, the other one movie don't care But I'm like no this was a good one like a dessert better.

Did you see that with friends? Um It's all in the world. Okay. Yes.

What do you think he loved it? We walked out and we're like that was so great We just talked about the entire car at home. Would he go on his own or? On his own I had to wait for me Wait until I come home you have to okay.

So on the drive here to the office today We were going through the checklist of young hot male actors and like who are you in on who are you out great? Okay, so we were talking about you know out on a lordy. Yeah. Oh interesting why um My introduction to him was the kissing movies sure okay So I get this with a lot of people slightly older than you and Austin Butler where they're like, yeah, we saw Disney so we don't need it Yeah, yeah, yeah, and you feel the same about Austin Butler.

Yeah. No one of your guys. You love you love Timmy. Sure.

Yeah, who does it love Timmy? Yeah? Um I also mentioned Joseph Quinn. You were kind of an unjustive Quinn.

I feel like he just keeps appearing. Yeah, and I'm not like oh he that guy but I Found like a stickiness. Yeah, I agree. So the person I want to ask about then really something to thunderbolt is sentry himself Lewis Pullman see I actually I don't think I knew him before that movie okay hearing the name I thought I did but whatever But I thought he was a great introduction.

I I'm going back to the team itself where it was so many different characters where you have Bucky Barnes well loved people were going to see that we just were him then you have other characters like Elena new character, but Mm-hmm has developed a fan base and Florence be also of course of course But then you're introducing new characters and like characters that maybe didn't like and I think that worked really well So even the Bob character was just a sweet little guy compared to all these Like I think that was a great addition Bob is his like human character. He's also Bob in top gun fabric So that's confusing for me. Yeah, and I do think that that was semi-purposable even though that character was originally supposed to be played by Stephen Yoon oh Lewis Pullman went in and then Lewis Pullman also started in Ky Gerber which I think Do you know that Ky Gerber also dated Dick Lourdie and Austin Butler? So what we're learning is that Grace and Ky Gerber do not have the same taste Amen, and that's okay.

Wow She's a real chamberlant. She's kind of That's good for her. I think it's like it that can't work out that you know things are screwed for all of us So you're excited about Fantastic Four steps. I was just talking to somebody about this the other day I didn't realize this but after that movie comes out in about three weeks There's not another Marvel movie for 18 months doomsday the next Avengers movie Which is a big thing right now in Romania somewhere, okay, and our engineers coming back as dr.

Doom. We'll see I Have been peddling the like it's kind of over and we're getting all the signs that it's over Obviously a lot is riding on a ventures movie all the Avengers movies make a billion dollars Yeah, our down your years been at the center of MCU for 15 to almost 20 years Are you like you're still like excited? I can't wait to see what they do with these stories I am very excited. I wouldn't compare it to that like high school excitement of Avengers and game and infinity war But it's still like I think it's a hopeful excited Okay, where the other was like this will be amazing and I like can't wait This is I really hope this works out because I want to and then it will gave me that hope and fantastic for I will be their day of Can't wait, but if that's not good that'll be a little and we're trying to with doomsday Just trying to remember who's who you know I wanted to ask you one last question before we go so I've been doing this 25 or 25 chemical year Yeah, 25 movies across the century sure one film per director.

Oh, oh, I didn't realize okay So that's been a restriction that we have so you know Amanda wanted to put 14 Nancy Myers movies I was like how much is one we got one on there? Your number one movie of the century if you had to choose one I would choose nights out. Okay, that would be my choice So why that movie okay one Chris Evans isn't it? I'm gonna leave out there.

I'm gonna put that right there I'm gonna table this podcast has been really disrespectful to him And I think you know you're making amends for your brothers misdeeds. He's freaking that movie Yeah, great sweater. Yeah, great sweater. Um Anyways, no, I love that movie because I don't know I really enjoy like a murder mystery type type eat But like the lighting it feels lighter which I don't know how to make that make sense, but I don't know the characters are just so eccentric We're like I kind of hate you, but you're also very entertaining.

I think that's also great cast I don't know. I just think it's fun like it's fun the string instruments like the music in the background is very I love it. I just I I don't know. Did you like to blast on you?

So you're excited for three can't wake up dead man Just coming out this winter. I wish I could think of movies that are similar to but there's a certain like vibe in my head of those movies Mm-hmm, that not much else matches. So when Ryan Johnson was on this podcast talking about knives out Which was 2017 he recommended we call the last of Sheila Which is a good I recommend to you right now check out which is clearly a big inspiration point and it has that same feeling of everyone on this boat Sucks Everyone who worked on this movie like Zach at the crispy right there's a murder mystery. Okay, and it's kind of funny and light even though People get killed.

Yes, so you love that good jokes. Yeah, my mystery beautiful people. Yeah fantastic I sweaters on and it's on location as well. So nice places maybe even nicer than the house Knives out we haven't talked about it too much recently.

Yeah, I think that we didn't we weren't as enthusiastic about glass onion Yes, you were and so that sort of and it has like a pre-pandemic feeling to all of it And also the original does and also a pre like $300 million Netflix deal. Yes, so We're living in a knives-out-two world now and we haven't you know, but she's right. It's Chris Evans like very early on into Armus Who else is in the Who else is in the Craig Crinkle Cass and it's very Michael Shannon It's a pretty Yeah, it's and it's your race one It's like it knows what it wants to do and it's having a lot of fun doing it which you know It's like a machine, you know, just like an accuracy mystery which I enjoy also I'm not giving credit to Daniel Cracker. He is like a central point of those movies where he's that traditional I feel like 19 50s movie detective, but modernize him like he's just a little man.

He's so cute like I love He's in his old man face. How do you feel about that? Listen, you know we have a Different seasons for different people that's okay. Okay, I think that he's very handsome So that's fine.

I also am a fan of Jacob already at Austin Butler So, you know women can't really have it all from 25 year olds to 55 year olds grace. Where can we find you? I promote yourself. Oh goodness.

Um with the letterbox public if you don't know what a box is very public. Uh, great fantasy I think it's just it. Okay. Yeah, thank you.

Grace. Thank you so much for me. This is so fun Okay, we're here with producer par excellence Jack Sanders. You look nervous under your arms.

Are you nervous? I wasn't nervous It's all body language. If you were in a race car, you wouldn't have your arms crossed That's true. You have your hands on the steering wheel drive through your take so your favorite movie of the year so far F1.

Okay, why? I want to engage in something that might seem a little bit counterintuitive. I think it will make sense. Okay Does this movie have one of the least impressive Brad bit performances of his career?

I would say yes Yes, I would as well. Is this a 350 million dollar F1 commercial? I would say yes If I mean the only question there is if that number is accurate or low sure and then I would say is this a formulaic Predictable story filled with cliche. We'll also say yes much and yet I'm here on this podcast to tell you It's one of the best movies of the year because the good in this movie is so damn good I don't give a fuck about the rest of the floss.

I generally agree I also agree we spent some time this morning before recording watching a meme of the so it's one of the it's the fight between Javier Bardem character and Zendaya's character in dune 2 But in the subtitles are replaced with F1 discourse and it's very well Whoever did I mean congratulations to you got a bright future and it does seem like a lot of people are Knit picking but then there are also a lot of people who are like well This is really loud and fun and when they get it right as Jack said they get it really right It's because there is a sacred understanding in the art of the summer blockbuster that summer blockbusters do not need to be It would be nice if they were but they do not need to be innovative in terms of story They do not need to wow you with performance What they need to do is thrill and satisfy you in the experience of block bustering the big set piece the thrilling chase the desire to Watch two characters have chemistry together. That's really all that we need this movie has a secret sauce Which is just a sick racing. Yeah, and that kind is all that matters Yeah, and then one emotional beat that they do I do think they know which is the so Brad Pitt like in the balcony scene Mm-hmm, you know after he has sex with his co-worker, which you know, there's a you know a note on that But that's fine When he is like I'm just trying to find that moment. Yeah, like he nails that speech.

I think you don't agree I think it's okay. I don't think it's egregious by any stretch, but right it's not as bad as some of the other stuff Yes, but then they pay that off. I agree I would just say to your point I think I told you this earlier the word I would use to describe it as a hypnotic when because in ski is building the action set pieces in This film it's legitimately mesmerizing and you're not remembering that you need to do laundry when you get home or you need to work Takeout it's just you and the screen and Because in ski is entering like a really rarefied air I would say up there with like Pio Villeneuve no one like he's on a short list of names when it comes to building mesmerizing action set pieces that are really Genuinely impressive. It's exciting.

It's nice to have another person that we're like, okay When we see a date on the calendar for one of their movies, you know, you're at least gonna get one certain aspect is gonna be really satisfying I'm very curious to see how well this movie does like across the summer whether or not it hit the hardcore fans and it will Trickle off or if it has staying power because the word about something good, right? It's a it's a rare like here's what's not good about this movie and I don't care kind of a movie Whereas I think for the most part in our movie culture especially with serious fans who go to see everything They can kind of like nitpick something to death at the outset and it kind of deflates the balloon for a movie This seems to be somewhat immune to that so far, which has been a fascinating thing to watch Did you have anything else on your list like was if you had first pick what it still be F1 or I mean, no Scinner's black bag and friendship or head of this You saw seen he felt seen as a 20 something in friendship. Oh my god. Absolutely.

That also applies to the 20 something 30s and 40s 100% okay, I mean like I was 19 years old when covid struck and I feel like that I just did a lot of yeah, no social damage to not just my own psyche, but I would say my peers in terms of I've never heard that before Yeah, I thought friendship was amazing, but if one is amazing too. It is great picture. Thank you Okay, man. It's just you and me now the way that the show is always designed to be the last two survivors on movie Island Great, what's your pick?

Phoenician's game, which I feel good about I think I said already on this episode that left to my own devices I would have picked black bag, but I think I would have been doing myself and Movie culture to service just as I think the the movie world and people at large do every West Anderson movie a disservice We just are not appreciating enough what's going on with West Anderson This is one of our favorite working filmmakers I think one of the great working filmmakers who is just like really really in his zone and he is in his own zone and has created Like an entire world and a visual and emotional language that he is just Doing variations on makes it sounds reductive and I think some of the quote-unquote complaints about this Which I don't really recognize or that's just like another West Anderson Diorama movie that is rude to the art of cinematography production design and West Anderson's brain. Mm-hmm. Yeah, the writing music the style the humor the ideas I still regret how we treated Asteroid City, which I think is like his I don't think it's late career But it's his like his me career master piece or master work and and and this is doing something a little different and maybe a little less adventurous or a little less Interested in playing with with form and and chronology, but still works with ideas still with illusions Still very rewarding to people who have been with him on the ride which we have and that's another thing where there aren't as many filmmakers Where you and I like kind of came of age as like film watchers at the same time and I definitely did with West Anderson So I'm I'm like thinking like a rush more and a royal kind of bounds fan when I'm watching Asteroid City and Phoenician scheme, but yeah, it's like beautiful both visually and Emotionally smart funny when you see all the tutorial sort of like the undersong performance of the year in my opinion He's wonderful and and as is the rest of supporting cast I'm a little surprised that this movie has not had a little bit more they Rallying cry about it as a just a good a movie for a moment And I think it's a little bit hard for people to separate the aesthetics of the West Anderson movie style with what the films are about But obviously there's been like a pretty persistent anti-fascist theme of his movies since Grand Budapest or tell it's a big part of that story So they're part of the story the relationship between power and wealth and that being a primary concern of this movie given what has been Transpiring least in the United States of America in the last month or so right? I think a lot of it is just down to people seeing a trailer and saying like I'm sick of this and not giving it a Chance or not being willing to engage.

I don't think this is quite on the level of Ashford City But I do think it's on the level French dispatch and totally I I wonder if more people will now start discovering it Once it gets into the VOD cycle just like I mean the last three movies are all that's in the same arc where it's like it comes out The die-hards really yell out about it some casual is getting interested and then it needs a second wave when it comes home And I don't whether that's good or bad I guess is debatable but this one in particular the response was more muted than usual so I'm glad that you chose it Yeah, there's nothing muted about my pick my pick is warfare Yeah, which especially in the cold light of 28 years later I find to be a fascinating appetizer for that movie because it is a movie that I think is actually quite free of a lot of Alex Garland's obsessions 28 years later is kind of the absolute pinnacle of you know the erosion of humanity colliding with the nation state you know and these like technology tearing us apart all these ideas right Wherever he just picked one which is the military and us regardless yes But done in this unique way where he's collaborating with Raymond Dose his co-director on the movie who is a veteran someone who served in the Middle East And who is bringing all of his very specific memories to this movie in the making of it to me It's an amazing showcase for what a great filmmaker Garland has become That is an image maker his use of sound his use of the way the performance style he gets out of people the staging He has and my favorite thing about it My favorite thing about talking to both Mendoza and Garland about the movie was even though they're clearly friends and they like working together They see the world differently and they decided to do something together that just doesn't happen Yeah, it's very rare to find two people who are you know Sipodico creatively but not necessarily I don't know about politically or the way that they see the military or the way that they see and I'm not trying to ascribe specific Political thought to either of those guys because they were both a little circumspect and we talked about it But I asked them both about whether or not this is an anti-war movie and they had a different point of view Um, and I find I could feel it in the movie Yeah, you can really feel in the movie that there are some profound misgivings about the nature of conflict and the nature of violent conflict And then there is also this like be grudging sense of necessity when you find yourself in certain circumstances And it's just a really amazing friction in the story and on top of the fact that it is just like a punishing movie a movie that just like hurts to watch and accomplishes what it wants to accomplish and I I'm quite curious to see where Garland goes as a director from here because he's been more focused on the like let me Violate your senses while watching anything else both Garland examples this year are made in collaboration with someone else, you know And I think that I would apply that to most people that that and we have been talking about this in great deal It's this very podcast. Yeah, but that if you can find someone who you can at least work with creatively That has the historically yielded like a lot of great work And sometimes I do feel like recently we've been getting With the exception of the West Anderson's of the world So I'm like very like closed off Autorists examples where you can feel that it's like only one person and there hasn't been anyone pushing back anyone saying What about this or what if we tried it this way or imagine what we could do so? I you know, it's great that people like working together and then it makes the work better sometimes I want to shout out a couple of other movies before we wrap up Adam even mentioned the shrouds He didn't want to pick it because he didn't want to be accused of Canadian bias, but David Cronenberg's real late style I don't know if it's a masterpiece, but it is also kind of violating in a way and its ideas about death and what we want to see All the time so I love that movie one of the I haven't had a chance to talk about on the show I don't think I don't think you've had a chance to see it just came out it's called familiar touch I haven't it is directed by a woman named Sarah Friedland. It's her first feature It stars Kathleen Shalfont as a woman I believe in her 80s who's struggling with dementia and her son puts her into a facility where she can live out the rest of her day Yeah, the movie is amazing for two reasons one Shalfont is like gives it incredible performance as this woman who is very elegant and educated and to watch her like lose Some of that we've seen this in movies before you know Sarah Polly made a movie about this some years ago But then the flip side of it is the movie has this very like outside abstract portrait of the caregivers and the people who work in the facility and how They interact with people who are struggling with these things and the fact that these people are not just Servants to the final days of someone's life right their people with feelings And they also can be disturbed and frustrated and also inspire people and make them feel better.

So very quiet simple You know I've had grandparents with gones these facilities super difficult to watch someone that you knew and cared about kind of slowly Fall away from day-to-day life. So I thought that was a very special movie One of destination bloodlines is the exact opposite of the spectrum. It's loud gross stupid and really fun. Yeah, no one picked it here I'm kind of surprised no one picked it.

It's a it's been a sensation if we hadn't had two of the best movies of the year also be loud and Virtuastically violent in different ways. Maybe it would be on the table. But I think it's a good point Yeah, it's currently my top 10 I feel good about that great. I want to get some love to one of them days This is a great pick.

Yeah, I'm like, oh, should I pick this one instead? This would be this is really good. I revisited it on Netflix the other day I was like this is a good hang like this is a good don't-room movie You know you just like kind of put it on any hour of the day and just really fun That's is it was really really funny in this and I think it's a really great And then I did want to quickly shout out a movie called a desert Which I also really liked which is starts out as a movie about a photographer who is like a successfully commercial photographer Who's trying to kind of rediscover his mojo by going out to the desert and shoot whatever he stumbles upon He's particularly interested in I'll band and drive in movie theaters. Mm-hmm.

Okay, and then And so it seems like it's kind of a neo noir kind of a thriller and then it takes a hard pivot into something much more sinister and violent and scary I thought it was really good. It's a debut from Joshua Ackman as a director and I think it's gonna be on shutter soon It was quite striking quite good. So that's some some bonus. Mm-hmm.

Who are you most mad at for taking a movie from you? I don't really I don't feel anger at anyone on this one I think that the anger is sort of directed between our guests and I like to you know foster healthy discussion while also like not having to Want to kill Ramhoni for once in my life, okay? But you know that was a theme that emerged right was Ramhoni once again comes and takes away something from everybody Do you think we should have an episode where he gets to pick on Rob for two hours? It's hard.

Yeah, I know I know I know I know like I don't know where the I would like to understand how to defeat him in a draft But I don't yet have my arms around that strategy. Can I pitch a theory? Yeah To his rise, sure he's secretly just like the right amount younger than us that he is actually in his prime and we're Not no offense. You know what I mean.

No, I get it He's like in his early mid 30s. Yeah, and the rest of us are all desiccated courses Was it I think in 1999 draft he took notting Hill from me. I would say and then I I don't want to I don't want to slander him You know because I know what happens when you piss Ramhoni off But I and I I'm not a hundred percent sure but like I got the feeling that he had only recently seen noting Hill Oh wow and that upset me. Wow on many levels strong accusation Well, you know, it was only born like four years after nine and kill so you have to play catch up sometime crazy Ramhoni Just turning team.

Yeah, so so impressive. He's so smart. Okay, that'll do it for this episode Thanks to our producer Jack Sanders for his contributions both on like an off in this episode later this week We are going to an 8 a.m. screening of Jurassic World River me and Amanda NCR We are going to watch the movie but before that we're gonna watch the Odyssey teaser if it is available if it is attached to the film But I am showing up like for all of the teasers at 8 a.m.

We need to talk We got to talk about like a coffee and pastry strategy beforehand. Well, we're going to the Americana There should be something open, right? I don't I actually don't know. Excellent.

What do you think at 8 a.m? Is it not open? Is it not open? I don't know what's going on there.

Okay, we'll see you on Wednesday