Hey, it's Brian Curtis from The Ringer, and I want to tell you about the PressBox Podcast. The PressBox is a podcast for anybody who likes news, whether it's about sports or politics or pop culture, and wants to understand how that news really gets made. We have new shows every Monday and Thursday. We have long interviews with everyone from John Crackower to Joe Buck.
Your social media feeds are bursting with information every day. Let us help you sort it out. Join us on the PressBox. I'm Sean Fennissi.
I'm Amanda Davins. And this is the Big Picture A Conversation Show about the real Oscars. That's right, the alternative Oscars. The big picks are back.
That means Wesley Morris is back on the podcast. The New York Times is what? Critic at large? What is your title?
I have a critical to it. I mean, at large, I mean, we go through this every time, but like, just critic. I'm a critic at The New York Times. That'll do it.
Okay, Chief Genius. That's what we've landed on. Wesley, we're going to talk about the awards we would give out later today. But you know, everybody, the known movie universe is talking about Dune Part 2.
Dune Part 2. Biggest movie of the year so far. By far, I made $82.5 million of domestic year in the United States. $182.5 million worldwide.
It's a sensation. It's a large format. IMAX sensation. You haven't seen it.
I have not. I was going to, you know, it's funny. I don't get invited to screenings anymore by the big studios. The smaller studios, they would love to have me whenever I can come.
I try to go as often as I can into their movies as well. And so if I can't, I mean, even go into screen. It's like my movie going exercise. I'm flabby, basically.
And I go through these. I'm bingy also. Like I will go through sprees of movie going where I'll spend a whole work week just doing nothing but going to movies. I mean, movies are already out, by the way.
Not things have been set up for me to see. Like I'm paying money to go to the movies all week. And I kind of like it, although when you do it during the work week, it's a little lonely because it really sometimes it's just you watching, you know, how to blow up oil pipe, whatever that movie was. A pipeline.
Yeah. Yeah. What's your preferred time of day during the week? Oh, I like all the time.
I like 10 to 4. Me too. 10 a. I do a lot of that as well.
And it's me and like, you know, three senior members of the Pasadena community. Mm-hmm. I'd say that they should start screening movies at 8 a.m. I feel like I'm in my 8 a.m.
I'm in my 8 a.m. I really want to start the day with a film and then go to work. But you know who's not in their 8 a.m. era?
The person who has to let you in. That's just who's not feeling 8 a.m. movies. I'm such an avowed and devoted cinniest, though, that like I should just have a like a fob that allows me to go into any movie theater in America.
And as long as somebody can just press play on the DCP, like you can trust me. You know, I'm just never watching. Why don't we train you to do that? And it's sort of a self-serve situation.
You know, the other day on the press box, Brian Curtis was like, would you ever want to direct a movie? And I was like, no, I don't want to do that actually. But what I do want to do is own a movie theater so that I can wake up at 8 a.m. every day and go downstairs to my grand movie theater and just watch a movie.
That is my dream. That's what I want. Can I just say, can I just say, you said, you said the words that reminded me of the problem with this scenario. And the word is DCP.
I know. Well, I'm just going to be realistic. I know. But the problem is when you even when you go to these people's houses and watch these movies, they're just doing what you would do in your living room.
In a theater, they built at the bottom of their house or like on the side of their house or in the back of their house. And I think that's wonderful. I think that's a wonderful use of your of your of your money. But I wonder if like if you go to Steven Spielberg's house, right?
If you go to Martin Scorsese's house, is it just Netflix in a theater too? I don't think so. Or is Martin Scorsese loading a projector? Yes, I'm almost there.
And Martin Scorsese's screening room, which is famed amongst the film fanatics of the world that he is running canisters. He's running reels of what about Paul Thomas Anderson? Well, I can't say. I don't know anything about his.
Yeah, we haven't been invited yet. I don't know. I know he uses NYU sometimes to do that. I can get answers to these questions actually.
We're all journalists. That's true. OK, well, cool. I'll find out.
I can just find out. Yeah, you know, you're right. And it's not just that you have to that you have to have a projector. It's that you have to have the films which are increasingly rare, which means the challenging.
So I'm just I'm trying to. And a sound set up. Yes, yes. I'll be installing 40 X rumble chairs in my movie.
I was like, should we do a stunt episode where we go see doing it in 40? I want to do it. I do want to do it. Well, maybe is that how I should see it.
I'll text you guys. That would be really fun. Are you curious about doing it? Like, how are you feeling?
Do you feel like you're too much now? Well, OK, so I mean, Sean, you don't know this about me, Amanda, but I feel like a way to get Sean to roll his eyes at me or to be reminded like, right, that is that is why we're different than that is that is why I'm me and you're you. I think Denis Villeneuve is a fraud. I don't know my fraud filmmaker.
Because you and Bill were podcasting. And I think it was during Bill's Amy Adams rant, which his story I agree with for the most part, but you know Bill. He's out on Amy Adams. And you both noted during this screen that you're out on arrival, which is one of my favorite films of the last 15 years.
So I did I did know that about you from afar. So I too have given you pause. Yeah. About anything that I say, maybe related to anything.
But I will tell you that because we haven't had a doom conversation, I watched the first one when I was when I was living in Austin. And I didn't I don't think I think it hadn't either was in theaters for a week and had gone back to HBO before it went back to theaters or it started on HBO and then went to the I don't remember. I think that's right. I think it was day and date.
So it was on the same day it was available in both. But it was only available for 30 days on HBO. Yes. That's why I remember because we had friends who showed up at Thanksgiving and were like, try to watch that last night.
No longer available. Yeah. So I watched it on a laptop. Oh, okay.
Shame on me. Shame on me. But here's what I'm going to tell you. I feel like there are some there are filmmakers in my fraud category where they figure out a way to be honest about what their priorities are as filmmakers, right?
And I think that you know, Christopher Nolan's Dunkirk for me is an example of like, here's a fraud director who is being honest about who they actually are. Yeah. Well, and Dunkirk is the first honest movie that the first successfully honest movie that Christopher Nolan is made where he's just like, you know what? I don't know anything about the following 25 things.
But you know what I do know something about? And you know, my pretenses as a filmmaker, I can bring something about like vehicular travel, right? Like, and my interest in the military, whatever, whatever interest that, whatever sort of like passing boyhood interest I have in military activity. And you know, my interest as a British person in a kind of British military history.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, my little, my little Christopher Nolan, Autopretense of time and time and space.
Can I just give the listeners at home a brief window into it? Since they can't see Wesley is standing while podcasting, which is an incredible setup. He looks very professional. And we just got a wonderful Christopher Nolan, Autour, Shimi.
Shimi. Shimi shake. Yeah. It's a shimi shake.
RM sand hips. Christopher Nolan dancer. This is why you are truly fearless and go at the moment when both Christopher Nolan and Denis Villeneuve have been basically crowned as the two filmmakers of the 21st century. You're like those guys are frauds.
That's just incredible. I just don't, I don't understand it. But, but this is, this brings me back to Denis Villeneuve. I watched Dune on a laptop with very good sound.
Like I had really good cans. And I was, I was really mesmerized by the first one. I found the plotting preposterous as a person who is only my knowledge of the book has come entirely from people in my life who've read it. It's a little like Game of Thrones that way as a literary experience.
It's a literary experience. It's entirely secondhand. But you know, everything that's good about his approach to filmmaking is evident here and it proliferates in the first movie. And so when the first one ended, I'm like, well, when's the second one coming?
Yeah, me and you both. Because first of all, I just felt like as far as long as it is, I don't remember how long the first one is. It didn't feel, it didn't feel long. And I think because there's nothing important happening in these movies, the stakes are so politically thematically like it's a world unto itself.
And yes, there is a passing correspondence allegorically to whatever is happening in our actual lives sort of planetarily. It's not a serious film. And I didn't need to take it that seriously. And there's something about the ultra seriousness with which he is making this movie that just relaxed me in a way because the stakes are high for him.
They are low for me. I definitely, I was very excited to see the second part of this. Because I don't know what happens. And I don't know everything about every production choice was right.
Even the music, which I could take or leave that moment, this era we're in where it's the drone wrong. And no one's responsible for that. I mean, it's Han Zimmer to the max. I think that you will be pleasantly surprised by two and that I think it is both a little bit less self-serious but also simultaneously significantly more serious.
I think the Javier Bardam aspect of it, I think- Sure, there are people who are finding ways to express themselves in that film. Is it still- As performers? Yes. Yes.
Okay. Oh, that's exciting. Yeah. And it is.
And he's very funny. It takes itself very seriously. I'm curious to hear what you think about what happens and how the movie expresses it. And some of that is just, I have not read, I've read some Wikipedia pages.
So what's coming next is also just love to have a philosophical discussion with you about that anytime you're available. But I think you like it. I think maybe you should see it with someone. Oh, well, you know, the reason I didn't see it this weekend was because my guy was like, I don't want to see that.
Okay. Because, you know, he reads, I mean, he is the science fiction person. He's one of the science fiction people in my life. He reads, I mean, I mean, maybe I'm going to say names that aren't- Maybe they're more- Maybe they're more in the fantasy end of things.
Right. Than- Than Dune is. I mean, not Dan Dune is. I mean, Dune couldn't be more in that realm.
But maybe Dune is like an arrogant extreme that he doesn't care about. But anyway, the point is we didn't go this weekend. I had wanted to, but we wound up, you know, we wound up doing other stuff. But I'm going to try to go this weekend.
That's my goal. Okay. Because I do want to see it in a movie theater. I do believe that if I'm ever going to appreciate and not want to argue with what it is, I do honestly believe that Danie Villeneuve is good at.
It's going to be on his exhibition terms, which I think are entirely being overwhelmed by the sound and images that he has orchestrated. And I think that that's, you know, I said this last week on the show, but I think that this was the movie that his career has been leading up to, you know, and even though he has made much smaller and more into Madras. He's made even a rival being a kind of a smaller scale sci-fi epic. He's been building up experience to make something that is as straight faced and majestic as Dune Part 2.
I like the 40X idea a lot. Let's do that. The next time we talk about this movie, we'll be after having seen it in 40X. Is that a deal?
Yeah. I have heard reports that there is a lot of shaking. Yeah. I mean, I am a little bit nervous about that.
I don't like that. I mean, I really do. Yeah. And then I think that there is a water element, but that is tricky because we're in the desert.
We're going to be splashing with the water of life. I don't know. Wow. I just will see.
I'm going to get rid of my lap. Let's go. You're not talking about. I don't want to.
I'm not the person generating the moisture. I don't want to move you to wet me. Is it a sexual film? Dune Part 2?
Oh, my God. It has sexual imagery. It has borrowed from all parts of the network. Is it just women dancing?
No. No, no, no, no, no. I mean, it's just there are a lot of recreations of more intimate parts of the body. And that view of the world has shaped the production design.
So. I didn't know what is a sandworm, but an epic palace. Oh, well, yeah. If that's really what's going to do it for me.
Right. Okay. So you actually, you raise a great point about now, this isn't fair to my to my fraud, like philosophy, but it's a part of it. Does this artist understand people?
Does this artist understand what happens when they get together? Right. Is this a person who understands what sex is, how it works, what attraction is, and how it expresses itself between and among people? And I have no proof of that from this man, right?
It turns him on is like physical physicality, anything, anything somatic, right? Anything that can be like exponentially made somatic, like, and physically realized. Nolan is the same thing. Nolan is like the bigger, the louder, the more chaotic, the harder I am.
Not me, Wesley, but me, Christopher Nolan. Right. And I do not quote from Christopher Nolan. Yeah.
But, you know, I mean, what's the most laughable, I mean, what, I don't know where we rank the laughable moments in Oppenheimer, but like, what is the moment we can all agree? It's probably the most laughable. I mean, it's the two sex. It's the one actual sexy.
It is. It's the one actual sexy. And then there's the Florence Pew sexy. And by the way, I know I'm about to like have my house get like moved into the into the East River for this, but I mean, Florence Pew gives the best performance in that movie.
Wow. I just I'm sorry. I'm just going to say it. Sorry, RDJ.
I don't know if I agree with that, but I was very pleased to see Florence Pew in the film as I'm always pleased to see her. It's I burst out laughing both times that I watched that sexy. Well, I mean, it's so they have they have that in common. And this is this is a function of a lot of great filmmakers who seem very serious based on the material that they make and kind of the expectations of the movie.
This is something that was true for Kubrick as well, where you know, Kubrick's movies seem very stiff and cold and he was so reclusive that it was hard to know. But you know, most of his movies are very funny and intentionally so. And I think there's an open question when it comes to no one comes to film. There are a few filmmakers like this right now who I think have a sense of humor, but the way that they choose to exhibit that sense of humor is sometimes misunderstood or mischaracterized.
You know, and so I'm not saying specifically that the Florence Pew sex scene is meant to be a joke, but there is a kind of dark abstract humor to some of the things that he's doing in Oppenheimer and other movies. I guess so. Interesting shot. I don't know if I think that that one's supposed to be funny.
And I agree with what there is like a kind of sterile intellectual rigor to the way both filmmakers make movies, which creates like technical and epic wonder. And sometimes you bump on the emotional motivations of any of the characters. Everything. Yeah.
And Wesley, we won't talk anymore about doing two, but like come back and talk about that because that was one of my things was, and some of it is, there's just so much plot. But, you know, the one thing I kind of bumped on was tracking how quickly the motivations changed and why people are doing what they're doing. Yeah. Decision making.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now, I think there's some truth to that too.
And Oppenheimer is a very similar story. There's a lot of a person's life crammed into three hours. And so there are jumps at times where you're trying to make sense of why those decisions are being made. But I do think that there's a lot of humor in both movies.
I know that seems ridiculous, but I think I don't think that those guys are Kubrick, but they obviously both idolize Kubrick. There's no question about it. They are at times putting on the Kubrick cloak and saying like, I will be the Kubrick of my generation. Well, if we're going to talk about the Oscars, like by not talking about the Oscars, can we talk about the Oscars for a second?
My next question for you is what are you expecting from this year's Oscars? Great segue. Well, I actually want to talk about it. Yeah, let's talk about it.
Because it's going to win a lot of Oscars, right? I think, you know, it's probably going to win everything but costume supporting actress screenplay. Screenplay is still there. Screenplay.
Yeah. Screenplay it won't win. I don't think production design either. Probably not.
Is that Barbie or poor things? I think it's poor things. You know, I understand why this is happening. I understand.
Well, I'm doing understand. I guess I understand. I just have not read spoken to anybody who is convinced me that there is either it's not even something that I'm arguing with. I hadn't even read anything that I want to like, I'm not even arguing with the people who love who claimed.
I mean, I don't want to say they don't really love the movie, but like, I don't feel any passion from anybody about Oppenheimer. You know, like the Barbie people to just pick one of the other best picture nominees. The Barbie people, I'm a Barbie person. I don't know if it's my favorite of the 10 best picture nominees.
But anytime I talk about Barbie, I am so surprised by how passionate I sound. I feel like I don't care anybody talk about Oppenheimer with any of the kind of passion that even past lives people do. Well, but you know, you know why this is. I mean, one, it's the overdog and has been for six months.
This has been the leading contender to win pretty much since the movie was released and never gave up its spot. I mean, we never moved it out of number one and we ranked these movies for six months. In addition to that, it's the second biggest movie of the year, or the third biggest movie of the year. And it's also a director who's been at the top of Hollywood for a long, long time.
So like, no one has any sympathy or even the need to feel like they have to defend it because it's been in the power position. It's been the most powerful movie of the year, right? I mean, is that my? Yeah, no, no, that's, but that to me is the only case you could make about the film.
It's not, I mean, not, I mean, you can make other cases, but that to me is the only case where I'm like, I don't even want to defend against that because that is just factually true. That has nothing to do with the movie. Yeah, but this is the Oscars. How often does that have anything to do with the movie?
But you know, it's funny that you say that because I just feel like we have to really rethink the way this whole thing looks. The idea that, I don't know, I mean, in a weird way, like this is a classic best picture, right? Classic best picture winner, except I actually would rather see David Lean's Oppenheimer than Christopher Nolan's. Because David Lean would have made some choices, right?
This movie is taking all these parts of the book and just, I mean, I won't go so far as to say it's throwing them at the screen, but it doesn't really, I mean, I don't know. I don't really get the sense as a person watching this story. It doesn't even unfold. It just kind of like pops up here and there and circles back on itself and then, you know, takes you under and overpass and then you're on and you're at an underpass and then you're in a tunnel.
Then you're flying at 50,000 feet above Earth and it's not fun. Like, I'm describing a ride that he's built, but I don't, my hair is not being blown. I'm not laughing with Glee. My stomach's not falling into my groin.
None of those things that happen on a ride are happening. And also, I feel like this is a little bit important for this movie. My brain isn't doing anything. It is not doing, I had no intellectual bodily sensory response to this movie really at all.
I actually kind of wish it had blown some water on me at times. And yet here we are talking about like it being like the sure, far and away best picture winner. And I just, in all of the reading that I have done by other people, there's a Justin Chang piece sort of like responding to that I really liked it was responding to the people who are mad at it because they think it sort of. You lied to the Japanese perspective.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I mean, that piece was great because I'm with Justin on this one.
It is not this movie's problem. And you know, thank, I mean, also, I mean, I think Justin says this, but like, what if he had done that? Yeah. Yeah, it would be so mad.
It would be, it would be, no. It was the right decision for Chris Bernoulli to not go there. Yeah. I mean, it's also just a different movie.
I, I could take issue with everything you said because I personally have a very different reaction to the movie. Like I do think the movie works intellectually and physically, it happens at different times. It's not, maybe not simultaneously happening and we like to have those two things together sometimes. We like to feel deeply and then know that there's something corresponding.
And the movie is a bit sectionalized as most Nolan movies are. They're sort of like the, some of their, they have to do some of their parts because he's constantly dissecting their structures and the expectation of when you get information. But I do, I know for a fact, I know people in my life who are having that, who have that relationship to it, who felt moved or who felt, you know, that thrumming thing inside your body when you're watching something that you really like or who felt like their parents age. No, no, no.
I mean, I think that there's a generational thing here with Nolan. I think that like the kids who grew up watching the dark night movies are now getting into adulthood and their adulthood is now, they're getting the Oscar movies of their adulthood. You know what I mean? Like the same way that it took him 15, 20 years to get recognized for the things that he does well, they are now at a place where maybe a movie winning best picture might be more meaningful to them too.
I mean, you know, this is all just like vague, you know, generalization. No, no, no, no, I like this. I like this. I like this.
This is why this is, this is why this broadcast is probably going to have the most people watching it in 25 years. I don't get that long, but I do think it may be that. No, I, I'm very nervous about the start time. You both know it starts at 7 p.m.
Eastern. Yeah, but it's daylight savings. Nobody's going to know. I know, but just people aren't used to being home in front of their, you know, TV at 7 p.m.
or 4 p.m. Here. I don't know. I feel like a lot of people are going to watch it.
All right. I'm very curious. We'll talk about that more later this week in terms of how many people will watch it. I do think there's obviously a bigger interest than the award show this year because of Barbie and Oppenheimer, but also that inevitability factor with Oppenheimer.
I wonder if that will diminish the interest, the fact that it has been the steam roller for months and months. I don't know what you think. I don't think it's going to be a huge, huge spike. I mean, people have seen these movies and Barbie is nominated and Ryan Gosling is performing.
I'm just kind of thinking, you know, thank goodness, I guess. I feel really conflicted about that and we can examine it some other time. Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa. What's your conflict there?
I think it was to the best original song Oscar on principle. Oh my God. And I feel what? Well, okay.
Wesley, I'm just kidding. Is the exception to the rule because that is an original song that was written to be included in the film. It is textual to the film. It is developing the story, the character.
I also think it should have submitted the lizzo song to that point. I'm still very angry that Duolipa was snubbed, but that's a different, again, that's a whole other podcast. Yes, yes. But for the most part, original song is, we got a famous person who you love.
And I love many of the famous people who won these awards to write a ballad that we are attacking onto the credits of this movie. And it has nothing to do with the song itself. And then we have five famous people who I do like come out and sing their ballads with varying success over the course of a three and a half hour telecast. And it just, it comes, this whole show just comes thudding to a hall, you know, like ballad number four to celebrate like Flamin' Hot, the Cheetos movie, which is a thing that's gonna happen on this podcast.
We're all gonna sit there and listen to an inspirational song from Flamin' Hot for four minutes. And it's just like I have different things. And Evil on Gloria somewhere is like, major look. And I have different, I just have better things to do with my life.
You know what I mean? I'm like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. But Amanda, what you're talking about now is not, it sounds like you're making an argument for against category fraud, which is one of my, one of my many Oscar pet peeves, but not the abolition of an entire category with a storied history and many great non-neas. Well sometimes you just have to make strong decisions, you know, to make a problem.
And this is one where I'm just like, the only, the easiest solution I see is get everybody out of there. So we should get Hillary Clinton on this. Oh, get, stop it. So I'm just Ken, which is my second favorite song from Barbie, After Dance Night Away by Alipa, not nominated in this category.
Mine is Lizzo and then I'm just Ken and then Dance Night Away. Right. But I was, the radio head songs on the Barbie head. Oh my God.
The Dream LA is very important. I enjoy it. And I will enjoy seeing it recreated, but that goes against my core principles with relation to the song category and also performances of the Oscars. So that's my conflict, whether that's where I am.
You asked that. I would, you're talking, all right, that's fair, but we're talking about a production problem and a change in the priorities of movies problem, right? Yes. So when I talk about best ending, I do want to revisit this subject.
Okay. Oh, okay. Do you think it's going to be a good show? Wesley?
I think Jimmy Kimmel is the best host that any show could hope to have, right? He will take the, what the thing is there to do seriously. He understands what a host's job is, which is to walk right up to the line and maybe even put a foot over it and then bring it back immediately. I think if anything goes off the rails, if anybody gets hit, punched, cursed out, like the wrong movies title gets caught, you know what I mean?
Like, if anything like that goes down, I would never happen to the Oscars. Wesley, I don't know what you mean. Someone getting hit at the Oscars? Jimmy Kimmel is the person you want to be there, not Wanda Sykes.
Sorry, Wanda, but I mean, she was probably backstage, like, like doing therapy on her front. She had, she like, that became something second, like hosting the show just was not her job anymore. And neither was it. It wasn't Amy Schumer's and it wasn't Regina Hall's that night either.
It just nobody knew what to do, but Jimmy, Jimmy Kimmel would have known what to do. So I think the show will be in good hands. I can't, you know, one of the things that we officially now love about award shows, honestly, and this is probably always true, but it's been very true in the last 12 years. You just, you don't know what's going to happen.
And when we were kids, the most exciting thing that happened at an Oscars is like Tim Robison Susan Sarandon, like we, I think a little bit of that needs to come back a little bit, but like in tandem with just all of the stress these people are under, forcing them into just wacky bizarnas. I don't know. I just feel like I think it's just going to, I'm in suspense about what's going to happen and it has nothing to do with what names in an envelope. Will you be watching the Oscars?
You won't be here to be checking it out. Okay, that's great. Thank God. Let's talk about alternative Oscars.
So we've done this, I want to say four out of the last five years together. And there are really no rules except that none of the movies and performances that we'll be recognizing here would be record, are being recognized at the Academy Awards. So for example, in the category, yes. So the movie's not off the board entirely, but for example, you know, the zone of interest is not up for best picture and our alternative Oscars, even though the zone of interest is an amazing movie that probably isn't going to win best picture and be cool to give it an Oscar in this case, but it's already being nominated, it's already being recognized.
So we're going to find alternatives to the zone of interest along with the other nine nominees. We also have created many, many new categories here, some of which I think should be immediately added to the show, some of which are a complete pipe dream. And you know, one of them actually is going to be a part of the Academy Awards in 2026, the best casting Oscar. Have you talked about this yet?
Have you had the best casting Oscar? Wesley? Have I talked to anybody about it? Well, it's being recorded.
No, I haven't, but I'm very excited about it. You know what raises a lot of questions for me about what it even is, right? I mean, and I don't mean like, I don't understand it, but I think it really is going to hopefully we are doing our jobs and the people that we work with do theirs. Like I think it'll, it'll be a real opportunity to sort of enlighten most people about what goes into getting the people in the movies in the movies, right?
Jane Jenkins and Janet Hirschinson, they're the two, they're two of the most important people in the, for our era of movies and things we were watching from when we were kids to, you know, I mean, we're still watching basically, you know, those Nancy Myers movies, like, I don't know, a beautiful mind. I think they did, they do Poseidon. They did Parenthood and they, they asked Joaquin Phoenix in Parenthood. They're credited with discovering Leonardo DiCaprio.
Yeah, I'm a little 13 and a half American. I mean, so I think like they wrote a book, the point, the wrong reason to bring them up on is because they wrote a book that kind of explains how their job works. And I read it a long time ago and I was really fascinated by what it is casting directors do. And they're really, it's hard work.
And sometimes you watch a movie and you're just like, you know, I mean, we can talk about this when we get there. But I'm just, anyway, I'm excited to see how the show when this category debuts in 2025. I think it's in, it's in 26. So we have to wait a little while.
Also, how do you, I mean, quote campaign, unquote for it? I mean, concept, you know, another thing about the Oscars I can't stand. But like, how, if you're them, do you campaign for something like that? I think that the directors will have to do a lot of the work there.
They'll have to help. One by half of the work that, because casting directors are often putting actors in front of directors and saying this is the kind of like, it's this kind of character. This is the person you're looking for. That's not true in casting.
Like the movie stars, the movie stars are often part of a larger equation in terms of getting the film made and who writer directors thinking of while writing the protagonist. But, you know, I mean, you're like, you know, there's like 30, supporting parts and often times. You know, I mean, that's like, that's a big job for casting director. Somebody has to be like, crumholed.
Exactly. Don't even think of it. I think that was actually your one in this case. Oh, it was.
Oh, OK. Well, that's powerful. crummy though. I don't know.
God bless crummy. I forgot to nominate crummy here on this. You guys know the Josh Hardin has four children. Already done with you?
No. What a shame. He's such a tall man in a movie of short people. Yeah.
Dr. Lawrence, do you want to? It's a pleasure to listen. I mean, I will say one of, I mean, I hate to put it this way.
No pun intended by the way. One of the highlights is that all in his hair of this movie is is like being able to look at Josh Hardin. Yeah. I did enjoy that.
This is what I'm saying, Wesley. The annual recipient of the I have Christopher Nolan's haircut and Chris for Nolan's movie award goes to Josh Hardin. So shout out to him. Yeah.
A long line of beautiful actors have taken that part. Right. Best first feature. This feels like an obvious award to add to this show.
It's an award that the Independent Spirit Awards gives out. It's an award that other critics groups give out. chosen a bunch here. How do you feel about these these pics?
I think they're good. We made the decision not to include two very notable first features this year that are in fact nominated for Best Picture. Are you going to pass live? I am referring to this.
But since they were nominated for the big prize, it seems like they don't need to be featured. Do you think that was wise? Yeah, I do. We're trying to we're trying to broaden the field here.
We look forward to Celine selling in court Jefferson's next films. The five nominees in this category, the Artifice Girl, Ry Lane, Talk to Me, they cloned Tyrone and a thousand and one. Wesley, you comfortable with these nominees? Yeah, I do think I want to just say that one thing about past lives and American fiction is just like, you know, they just they do make you want to see the second movie, which I think is the is one of the great things you could say about somebody's first movie.
And a thousand and one of these five is the also well, they cloned Tyrone. I also think like what's you know, what are these two people going to do? A.B. Rockwell and Joel Taylor?
Next, I don't know. I'm what is Talk to Me, by the way, that's the horror movie of the Australian horror movie. Oh, yeah. Hand.
I saw that so long ago. By far, the biggest hit on this list of first features. Yeah. I mean, talk to but there's so many talk to me is like how dare you.
I mean, I'm sorry. It is familiar frame. But there's the P.D. What's the space story that Casey Lemons did?
There's a lot of talk to me. Oh, that's true. That's true. But anyway, I think of these five.
I'm going to vote for a thousand and one. That's one of my favorite movies of the year. You have you want to strike a secondary vote? Well, I just like to advocate for Rylane.
Just we haven't said anything about it. And some of it is that is a romantic comedy set in London. So sometimes you just have your own taste and preferences, right? And you're just sounds like you've got Juliet lemons right now.
Say more. Well, that's one of the core foundational interests of my Angelia's friendship. But you're an anglophile too. Oh, yeah.
Come on, Wesley. Listen, if you want to know what I'm talking about, I have a lot of thoughts for you. I know, but like you're, I mean, you know a lot, but I angle a file. I mean, you what is a person who has a lot of knowledge about something?
But you're you're not dispassionate. You're definitely not dispassionate. But I don't know. You take these people to task.
I don't know. One of the frills of listening to you guys talk. Well, Sean, no, you know, you know, you've landed on something very that is unique to a man obviously the man experience at large is unique, but that you are willing to be expert, but also cutting about the thing that you care about and are expert about it. At times, not always.
I just I hold the things I love to the standard that I hold myself and that I hold everything else, you know, so I expect people to excel. OK. The anglophile thing, I think that I might be more of a British rom-com person than Juliette even. That's probably true.
Because she is not really in the Richard Curtis school the way that I am. Like, no, we have not done it for weddings and a funeral. We watchables because no one will do it with me. That was like, Bill was like, if you can find someone, you can do it like two years ago and no takers.
So. Oh my God, I'm not even I'm not even raising my hand. Right. That's really interesting.
Like, I just, by the way, I think it's like the 30 year anniversary of that movie, like today. Wonderful film taught me a lot about about not quite asking for what you want in a romantic relationship, but hopefully getting it anyway, you know, one of the signature features of all romantic relationships, at least in the night. I did that movie was on the other day. Um, and I saw I watched it from, Oh, wait, maybe that was Notting Hill, one of a top three for me, not until he's, I mean, because it's the Julia plus the you really, yeah, yeah, it was nodding Hill that I watched the end of a couple days ago.
Yeah. I'm just a girl standing in front of a boy. Forewettings in a funeral is a better movie than Notting Hill. It is.
Um, but I don't know if I could, it would be me, it'd be me doing my least favorite version of myself on the rewatchables, which is like the one person of the three or four of us that is just like, why are we here? Yeah. Well, that's okay. Anyway, Riley Riley is like a in the tradition of but a very fresh inspired by but also feels totally new and big reading.
It's the romantic comedy has died a thousand times now, but it's still pretty much dead. So I rain Alan Miller, like did it. And if you haven't seen it, check it out. Very well shot and beautiful to look at as well.
But I've not seen it. Oh, it's lovely. Yeah. That's the one of these I have not.
I think you dig it. It's good. It's good. It's we talked about it.
I think both of these movies were Sundance movies too. Actually, talk to me was Sundance movie as well. Um, I'm good with a thousand. Okay.
A thousand one is our winner for Best for Future. I completely agree with what you said, Wesley, which is that it will be exciting to see what Avi Rockwell does next. She came out of the Sundance Institute and I think that film started as a short to like so many other movies like this one. Yeah, it's trying a lot of that in it, but then it's just there's like a, there's some like a central unknowability about it.
It's still withholding something, which Sundance Institute, like they, they work real hard to make you not do that. You make me share. Yeah. There's really some tension here that I that manages to like survive the beginning of the film to the end of the film.
Um, and you know, a tragic movie that is not Chloe, you know, there's like, I mean, we can talk about this when we get to the acting, but, um, I just really like how it doesn't want you to feel good. Yeah. About anything when you leave. And I, I really admire that, which is very not that Institute.
So next category, we have six nominees, breakthrough performance. Here are the nominees. Andrew Barth fell in the no hard feelings. I'm proud of that nomination.
Charles Melton, May, December, Tieno Moore, Earth, Mama, Dominic Sessa, of course, from the holdovers, Kaylee Spaney from Priscilla and Iman, Vollani from the Marvels. Do you love, I love these. I think these are good. Yeah.
There, this is another category that I feel is a no brainer. And I know how you feel about category fraud, but I think the amorphousness of this is actually to the, to the benefit of you could really just, you could get people at the Oscars who wouldn't otherwise be there, who you want to see. I don't understand why we can't have this category. How do you even prove what a breakthrough is?
I know. It's like, I'm like, best new artists. I understand that there could be shenanigans, but if we could have these six people at the Oscars, it would be a better Oscars. So when they, you know, definitely going, right?
I mean, well, so when they used to give out the juvenile acting Oscar, the kids, Oscar on a time, like when Haley Mills was performing, they, the Oscar would actually be physically smaller. It was a little Oscar. It was a little Oscar. And so I wonder if this should be a little Oscar or maybe it should be a different statuette or something else to indicate that, because, you know, some people say like you're first Oscar supposed to be like this incredible thing.
So if we start giving up breakthrough Oscars for small parts to young people, give out three short film awards at the Oscars. If we are giving out that, which is basically breakthrough films for, you know, people who were able to secure funding and who know people. So if we're doing short films and it's a regular size Oscar, then you can give these nice young people a regular size Oscar too. OK, but, but, but Amanda, there's a clear sort of scientific standard by which to determine something, a short film.
OK. No, many of these films are 85 minutes long. What are we doing? And I can't see that.
It's not. There is a time. We are the week of the year where I'm just absolutely done with the short film bridges of the Oscars like break up this hunta. It's like 45 hours.
I can't see any of them. I can't understand this. You can definitely see them now. They're very seeable.
Not all. They're not streaming. You know, it's like, come on. I like, I got to go to a movie theater and watch a special night.
I will I signed up for Vimeo. I will rent your short film from Vimeo for $3.89, but like make it available. What are we doing? I think there's a it's tricky to screen the shorts because they're not a guaranteed box office, but they don't play for very long, even in a city like Los Angeles where the Academy Awards are held too.
So there are some challenges. I've managed to see them all, but you know, I do my job. Can I go with the other guy? I have until Thursday.
All right, listen, I I hear you, but there's just no way I would I would I would love to see these people nominated for Oscars, these six people, but like I need I need something more concrete than a quote breakthrough. I just don't you want to apply some for us right now? Like is it no more than five film credits to your name, something like that? Oh, maybe maybe that would be that's a good one.
Oh, I like that. That's using your noggin. All right, sure. Like the like the only spainy.
I'm I'm going to go now, but you know what? I'm not asking you to take it off. This is the no brainer winner, by the way. Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. OK.
You think you know, it's the no brainer winner? Oh, I thought that's what he was saying. No, no, not saying that at all. Um, I guess she has more than five credits.
You didn't think that she was good. I thought she was fine. OK, you know, I think that like it's a it's a it's a it's a. Once again, we just have to have our little corner of the world with pink toenails and not being able to express anything out loud and Jacob alerties very powerful.
And then we hear some Dolly Parton and we move on. OK, you know, not everybody has to go through that, but it's just it's my little corner. Sure. Yeah, I mean, I don't even object to her being here.
I just wouldn't you wouldn't give her the little. She would not be able to be her sixth feature film credit. OK. See, the other thing is you're in the craft legacy because that really was helpful.
But she's going to be isn't she cast in something like some military action. She's a star and she stars with Kirsten Dunst, who then suggested her to Sophia for Priscilla. So it's like the passing of the torch, which again is very important to me. OK, I know.
I know. It all leads back to Alex Garland. I just didn't I just didn't know. OK.
OK, so you're you're you're writing for Kaylee Spain. I mean, I'm open to other I'm I'm glad that she's nominated. I'm glad that we didn't institute the five credit limit before this podcast. But it is a good one.
It is. Yeah, it's a good one to think. My vote would be for Charles. You know, the last time we were on a pod together, we talked about me December.
You had some ex feelings, Wesley. I mean, you liked it and loved it. I loved it. It was one of my favorite movies of the year.
Did either of you get kimchi from Charles Malton? No, I didn't. I'm on those lists. Did you know about this?