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And this is 25 for 25, a Big Picture special conversation show about Inside Llewyn Davis. Should I sing right now? Please. Hang me, oh hang me.
Yeah, that was a slightly higher register. Hang me till I'm Ben Dottis. All right, Inside Llewyn Davis. Yeah.
This is our Coen Brothers pick. I'll tell you some details about this film before we dive into why we have chosen it. For the listeners of home, it is written and directed by the Coen Brothers, Joel and Ethan. It's produced by them and Scott Rudin.
Longtime producer of theirs and stars, Oscar Isaac Carey Mulligan, John Goodman, Garrett Hedlund, F. Murray Abraham, Adam Driver, and Justin Timberlake. This movie is shot by Bruno Del Bonnell. We were talking before the recording of this episode, a very rare non-Roger Deakins shot movie for the Coens, which is an interesting choice for us since we worship Deakins here on the show.
Edited by Roderick James, who is, of course, the Coen Brothers. Yeah. And this is another Coen's music movie. So the soundtrack is once again produced by T-Bone Burnett, just as over the world that was, and Marcus Mumford, the Mumford and Sons, who in 2013 was an extremely successful and popular musician.
Exactly. And now, a little bit less so. But is also still married to one of the stars of this film, Harry Mulligan. So this movie is set in 1961.
It's about a New York City folk singer named Llewyn Davis. It's at a crossroads. He's got his guitar. He's trying to figure out where he wants to go in life.
He's trying to make a name for himself as a singing star. But he can't get out of his own way. Yeah. And fate won't get out of his way either.
And so, why did we choose this movie? I do think, if I remember correctly, that the original list was No Country for Old Men, which is the accepted, both, you know, publicly and at the Academy, masterpiece of this century of the Coen's. Fargo, not eligible, as my dad was at the line. Raising Arizona, not eligible.
You know, Miller's Crossing, not eligible. Barton Fink, there's a million, you know, the A-tier of the Coen's is very crowded. But No Country is often considered the A-tier. Yes.
And it won this picture. And so it's probably the most widely seen of their films. That's probably true. And it also came in 2007, which was like one of the great years of American cinema in our lifetimes.
And so it being like the cream of the cream of the crop makes it pretty significant. But I think I put No Country on and you pretty instantly were like Inside Llewyn Davis and I just said like, yes. And we didn't have to talk it out. So maybe we can actually decide why, we can talk about why we are both.
For me, you know, I did rewatch No Country also this week in order to like be able to justify it. I didn't do that. I'm able to talk a little bit why. And I felt even better.
I felt, I rewatched Inside Llewyn Davis once. Was like, yeah, we smashed this. Then rewatched No Country again. And was like, oh wow, we like really smashed it.
And then I rewatched Inside Llewyn Davis a second time. I hadn't seen it probably in like five, maybe. Yeah, five or seven years. And I think for me, in addition to, you know, the basic genre distinctions, obviously like No Country is a Western and, you know, I have limited patience for dust.
And this is about like a struggling artist and like a very classic Coen's just like loser guy, a guy who it's not coming together and how much of it is his fault and how much of it is the world's fault. Actually it's both. But there is an emotion here and most of it is like anger and regret and spout need. But there are deeply felt moments compared with No Country's like total nihilism, which it's a feat of as well.
But I just find that Inside Llewyn Davis and the Llewyn Davis character stays with me more. Welcome aboard V-Rail. Please sit and enjoy. Please sit and sip, play, post, taste, view, and enjoy.
V-Rail, love the way. I haven't revisited No Country yet. Of course I think it is also a masterpiece. So to me, I'm not, yeah.
I'm not trying to be like, yeah, you know, that bad. I think it could be perceived as like trolling by not picking No Country. No Country is a movie that I love. I loved it when it came out.
I still love it. I haven't revisited in a little while. I mean, it's pretty fucked up. I think it is thematically consistent with what the Coen's are interested in, which is sort of like everything's bad and there's nothing waiting for you at the end.
You know, that's sort of where a lot of, especially this era of their films, you know, Serious Man, which is really my favorite movie of the years of the century, but I know not yours. So I was making that choice to pivot from No Country to another Coen's. I thought Inside Llewyn Davis would be kind of a perfect meeting point because it is, as you said, a typical framework for them. The lead character, what he's doing, how he fits in the world, how the world accepts or rejects him.
And it also is, like most of the best Coen's, funnier than No Country for Old Man. I think it's certainly more emotional, as you said. And the music element is pretty profound. And it's really interesting to revisit this movie in the aftermath of A Complete Unknown, which, you know, quite literally puts that story onto the screen, as opposed to this, which is sort of a draw inspiration from it and is clearly using figures very closely who are in the world, but isn't as concerned with biographical detail as it is with using this moment in time as a portal to talk about what it's like to be alive then and now.
So I think this is an incredibly special movie. I will say when I first saw it, I remember vividly that I did like it, but that I didn't totally, I shouldn't say I didn't get it, but that because it is quite a meandering movie and it does not have the kind of like rocket ship quality of No Country or even a True Grit, which is just like a true grits like a crowd pleaser. You know, True Grit was a big hit and this movie comes after that movie. Those two movies are adaptations.
This is an original. I've probably watched the movie six or seven times in my life and it really deepens every time I revisit it because of the themes, because of Oscar Isaac's performance, because of what I think it means to them and how I think their best characters are often guys like this, usually guys, sometimes women, but usually guys. And so it's just a very deep and fascinating portrait of the American spirit, like the broken American spirit. Totally.
That also features beautiful folk music. So I feel pretty good about it. There's a variety of other things that we can talk about. Do you want to talk through the other Coens that could have been contenders during this 25 year period?
Like, Oh Brother is 2000. We could have talked about that. And when my dad was trying to guess the movies on the list and first guest Fargo, sorry, and then he was like, okay, Coen Brothers. And he said, oh, is it the Odyssey one?
And I instinctively said yes. And then I was like, wait a second. No, no, it's not Oh Brother. It's the other Odyssey one.
But the cat is named Ulysses and this is a person on a journey. Who returns home. Yeah, but like, can he get home is like sort of, and what is it is sort of the question. So, you know, I guess this is a stand-in for Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey.
Yeah, they beat Nolan to the Odyssey twice before 2025. Yeah, we were talking about Burn After Reading, which is the other film, not filmed by Deacons. Yeah, the one Chivo, Emmanuel Lebesky shot that movie. I'm really stressed.
Do we have Deacons on our list? I'm really stressed. I don't think so. We don't?
I don't think so. I think that's a spoiler, I guess. And also, maybe we fucked up a little bit. I'll pull up this filmography while you're speaking.
Okay. But, you know, I do love Burn After Reading. That is pure black comedy. So, we are tending with the exception of the Incraments towards like the, you know, The Dark Knights of the Soul on this list in one way or another.
I'm trying to think what else. Oh, yeah, we do. We have Stephen Daldry as the reader. It's on our list.
I'm super excited about it. So, there will be a Deacon Center. That's a good one. I appreciate it.
Yeah, there's something really dark and something really light about this movie. I think every time it runs the risk of becoming too morose and self-pitying, he shows us. They show us. The slapstick that they're really gifted at.
You know, there's a lot of physical comedy in this movie. There's a lot of physical expression in this movie. But there's also a lot of time just looking at Oscar Isaac's sad face. Yeah.
And his kind of mournful, like, why am I getting fucked like this? You know, that sense of doom. And I think every single really dark or down moment in the movie also has humor in it because this is one of the ways that I relate to the Coens is like they can only really deal with the bad stuff through, you know, a twisted, cynical sense of humor. So, you have Oscar Isaac like absolutely pouring his heart on the line for F.
Mary Abraham. And, you know, that's like his big moment. It's shot like he's outside of Early Gates. You know, it's like literally like, is he going to make it or is he not?
Is he not? And then I don't see a lot of money here, which is an absolutely cutting, essential thematic line and also just fucking funny. Like really, really. He's just like, it's devastating and still a little bit of wit.
Or when he plays for his father and there's like, are they connecting like what's going on without words here and through this music and then there's some stylological humor. So, it's, there is, they're working through it and you can feel them like working through it in these moments where sometimes in some of the other movies it's like a little close off. I think that's partially because they've talked in the past about how they don't map out their movies. Like they just start writing and then they just write through where they think it should go.
And a lot of the times they end up with something that's very tight and very, you know, it can be a little suffocating in their world. If you can't get onto their register, you can't get oxygenated with the Coens, then they can be limiting for some people. Obviously, they're in a very rare air for me. I love pretty much all their movies, give or take one or two.
But this movie is a little bit warmer and a little bit colder at the same time. Yes. And that balance of those temperatures I think is really special here. And I don't see a lot of money here.
It's definitely one of the reasons why I think this movie is so profound because it's like these are two guys who, I'm not sure if it's a bit rude as a point of view for the film because these are two guys who basically never compromised, who always made what they wanted to make, came out of independent cinema and firmly believed in their point of view and somehow turned themselves into not just artistically but commercially successful artists and made movies that made $100 million. And you point out the conversation between the Carey Mulligan's character and Oscar Isaac's character where he says you were calling me a careerist and she says you were calling me a careerist and I was calling you a loser. And that's a really fascinating exchange because he is attacking her for wanting a suburban life, children, comfort. And she is mocking him for having this kind of over-managed sacred idea about artistry, which is bullshit.
You know, like there is certainly a universe where you can have both of those things, but because he's a person who is both unwilling to compromise and not shrewd, which is a very devastating place to be if you're an artist. So you've got to get really lucky. Now, whether the Cullens are actually very shrewd business people or creatives, they might be. You know, they consistently have been able to get movies made for 40 years.
But it's like this is rich coming from you is how I feel watching the movies sometimes. Not in a bad way. And then there's another thing too, which is about sort of like the fractious and bickering nature of artists where you've got inside the folk scene a lot of different philosophies around what is and is not folk music. You've got a jazz musician who really looks down on the folk beat.
You've got a beat poet who sort of like doesn't relate to anybody and feels completely alienated. Doesn't say anything. Doesn't barely speak. Except for his terrible beat poetry.
And even the rivalries and the disrespect among the folk community. And, you know, Oscar Isaac or Llewyn Davis is like the pure folk singer, quote unquote, but that has diminishing returns. And then he's surrounded by people who are performing and portrayed in this film as just completely insufferable, like very funny. It's mean, but also great.
And typified, you know, most thoroughly by Justin Timberlake in one of the great casting coups of anyone's career. I would love to know how aware Justin Timberlake is of how he was used in this movie because he is the classical pop tool. I don't mean like tool like in a drag for a sense, but I kind of do. I thought you actually did.
I kind of do. I do think he eventually became a kind of interesting pop star and I definitely enjoy his solo albums, but he was a boy band machine and he is identified in this movie as a guy who's basically willing to compromise his folk ethics to write novelty tunes for record labels about going to space. And at this time, Justin Timberlake was of Whistler and Donalds. And that's an ingenious stroke by the Collins.
This is three years after he is the asshole billionaire in John Carter and the Social Network. So he must have some awareness, but also like all evidence of the 10 years after this or 12 years and this is going to ruin the tour suggest that perhaps not. Maybe he doesn't. Maybe he didn't get it.
Maybe he didn't know that he was being identified by frankly very cold-hearted auteur filmmakers like David Fincher and the Cole Brothers. Anyhow, they took advantage of his fame. He's definitely in the Zodiac and so he's like, yeah, that's what I'm going to do. I think it's possible that he thinks he is.
You know what I mean? Sure. So the other thing about this movie is that his character is being cut so hard by Llewyn Davis because he's a member of Gene and Jim, this couple with Harry Mulligan. I guess we didn't perform together one time, but we very rarely see them interacting with each other.
Yeah, with the other guy. Yeah, the third. Yes, but otherwise, yes, they're seated at the table in the club for one moment, but she goes away very quickly because she doesn't want to be involved. It's a very clever semi-self-referential joke.
Adam Driver, also hilarious in this movie, as Al Coney, the cowboy counterpart to Jim. And this is early girls' era. This is pretty early Adam Driver and also very exciting, but early on the scene. It's right on the precipice of The Force Awakens when he is set to become a bigger movie star.
I sure wish I could have at least one movie where Adam Driver was the star of a Coen Brothers movie. He's maybe a little too big and strong. That's not really what they do. He needs to be a little lankier.
That's true. He could get that way. Yeah, I mean, in this era, he was lankier. You know, he's lanky in this movie.
They're not a lot of swole guys, but it's true. So, you know, maybe he could cut back on the macros. There's something else here now. Something new.
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Visit Shopper's Drug Mart for the bonus redemption event and get more for your points. which is being the other guy. And we learn this at the end of the movie because there's a big reveal in terms of the circular structure of the movie, but it's clear if you know anything about the folk scene from the first moments based on songs that Oscar Isaac's character is singing that the movie is modeled on Dave Van Roenck. Dave Van Roenck was a contemporary Bob Dylan, one of the signature folk artists of the Greenwich Village scene.
In real life, not an asshole in the way that Llewyn Davis is, but has... His Wikipedia page is just like, he was lovely and was interested in all types of music and a founding member of the Greenwich Village community. Yeah, I mean, he is a big part of No Direction Home in the Martin Scorsese Bob Dylan documentary, which is really, really great if people haven't seen that I talked about during the unknown episode. And you can see he seems like a nice man.
So it's not ideal that this happened to him. Although I will say Oscar Isaac is certainly a bit more handsome than Dave Van Roenck was. So there's a trade-off there. But Van Roenck is a guy who's very loyal to the folk cause, the artistic cause, understood a lot of historical American forms of music and sat deeply in the scene and also watched Bob Dylan hit the scene and Bob Dylan take off like a rocket and then leave the scene and kind of leave behind a lot of these figures.
And the fact that there's a movie that is focusing on the guy who didn't win is tremendously unusual. There's just not a lot of examples, especially in the world of the arts. I'm biased, but that's it. It's the train of Murray Abraham.
It is, but at least that movie has a lot of book in it. Yes, it does. You understand. You see him conducting and you're like, he's both art.
It's doing both. It's the idea, but not the execution. This movie, as a counter, and that would make a good double feature, actually. But this movie as a counter, we only see...
bob dylan perform once but when you see him perform in the final moments of the movie it also makes sense because even though his voice is not as purely beautiful as you know in key as oscar isaac's voice there's money there there's something there with dylan right and so the whole movie is a psychological portrait of a guy maybe deep down knowing but not being able to accept that he's the other guy that he's not the winner right you know he keeps impregnating women he's not dating his musical partner has jumped off the george washington bridge right he's lost a cat yeah he signs away the royalties he lost someone else's cat and then he has a can go with his own cat but he can't even commit to the cat some cat troll yeah um and he signs away the royalties to the please mr kennedy song which is in the moment you're like the slow moving car crash what are you doing no you fool just because you need 200 bucks um so yeah it's a it's a it's a miserablest doomed man in a cullen brothers movie but funny with great songs so easy pick i think i don't know what do you think the like standing reputation of this movie is right now i think that it's really admired but i don't think it's trollish to include this i guess it's maybe like a little counterfactual but that's what we do here um but i think also anecdotally i told my husband like oh yeah we're doing inside lou and davis and he was like that's sick and then he was like i'll come watch it with you and i was like i love that you guys are doing this one uh so then i told him some other he's like i don't agree so you know to me that was like look we got it um i think admired but not celebrated in the same way and i don't know whether that's because it it mirrors like the other guy trajectory um can i suggest a theory about this okay at the time when the movie was coming out we were at the very beginning of the ostrac moment yeah so he had appeared in chris ryan's beloved born legacy sure as the third guy um and then he has a run of inside lou and davis uh most violent year ex machina and culminating in star wars the force wakins yeah and he was being presented to us in the force wakins as the new han solo the dashing rebel and the force wakins made a billion dollars and was a massive success and he was very good he's great in the movie i think that character is a little well the thing is that han solo was also in that movie so not ideal the other thing is that adam driver was in that movie and i think the takeaway from that movie which people liked was that you know adam driver and i think also daisy ridley were the real standouts right and he was a slightly older guy trying to seem cool and oscar isaac has not stopped working since that movie he's had a very successful career he's a little bit closer to like an a plus character actor now than he is a leading man and the leading man thing never fully concretized yeah and so now maybe this movie is a little bit more forgotten than it would have been if he had been hit after hit after hit in the last 10 years and also slightly more prophetic you know but it's all yeah but the sense that he is you know he is playing the other guy the person who doesn't quite have whatever it is and a movie that i think is like artistically like sublime but doesn't didn't commercially break through in the same way that their previous films had and it wasn't recognized at oscars is sort of like this this diamond that no one's paying attention to because bob bill is over here yeah it's i guess it's not surprising because there's not anything terribly commercial about period piece about a made-up person who loses like that's just not that's not it's hard to sell that um the academy is interesting though you bring that up because they had this grand moment of acceptance in 96 with fargo they were nominated for best picture they won an academy award for their screenplay that was like a hollywood arrival moment yeah but no country for old men was uh picture director screenplay supporting actor this is the best movie of the year over there will be blood and michael payton and zodiac and a whole host of other movies atonement and there's like oh seven as we know like you mentioned at the top it's just a crazy roster of movies is that juno also i believe it's also the juno um this movie i think only got two oscar nominations um and you can make a case i'm not sure if i would make this case you could make a case that a serious man's regret in this movie is there is one of their tightest three film runs yeah i mean it's funny because i think most people i guess burn after reading is in the middle so you can't do no it's before burn after reading is before i think it's before no country no it's no country burn after reading um true grit luna davis no a serious man but i think i guess like most people would kind of swing back towards no country to try to make the trio but i yes i mean they have many interesting three movie formulations where they're running hot um but those are three incredibly different movies yeah a serious man true grit and inside one davis and there were people just like this is good yeah and then and then they've made other films that we love since then but this is i love hill caesar i love hill caesar too but like hill caesar is you know they're having fun and they got janey tatum doing gene kelly and george yeah um and a little bit of like burn after reading as well and you have great affection for ballad buster shrugs and you do not because it's an anthology yeah i do uh but but still it's not not major works so i was kind of surprised when i was looking back at the filmography i was like oh this is kind of like the last cohen brothers masterpiece there's certainly a case for that and it's 12 years ago now and they haven't made a movie together since since the ballad buster shrugs which is six years ago and that's often forgotten aspect i think of the amazing year of 2019 is there was also a cohen brothers movie that year just happened to be on netflix so they didn't have the same yeah so at the time we're like people are making memes out of it so this is great yeah some good memes some really good performances and i mean the james frank will even persist to this day first time um so six years since they made a movie together yeah ethan cohen is about to release this summer his second movie uh i think this one is actually officially co-directed with trisha cook i can't remember his wife i can't remember if driveway dolls was officially credited as co-directed and writing these movies together joel cohen's made one movie the tragedy of mcbeth which was released i think in 2021 and i've heard rumors that they're gonna get back together and do something else but joel cohen is 70 it kind of took me it kind of braced me yeah joel cohen is 70 years old so it's not a 70 year old can't make a movie of course again marty scorsese's gonna make a movie at 85 years old but time's getting short yeah and how many more cohen brothers movies will we get in this lifetime for me that's quite sad you know i really they were a big trampoline for me taste wise taught me a lot about how to watch movies and i watched one of the special features on the criterion of inside the davis last night was a conversation between carmel delforo and joel nathan joel nathan don't do like a ton of long-form interviews it was a 40-minute conversation with with gt and they just talked at length about influence and things they like and how they put it in their movies and part of the conversation was that they always re-watch a couple of movies or at least they did in the 80s and 90s before starting a new movie this is something that barry son and felt their original long-time cinematographer revealed publicly once and they're like god damn it now we gotta talk about this for the rest of my career but one of those was the third man which is my favorite movie yeah did i read once that they said that was their favorite movie and that led me to the third name i can't remember but it's possible yeah and their their films and what their films brought in front of people you know press and sturgis is also huge influence on them i love press and sturgis that was another person like unlocked my 20s those are my favorite comedies my 20s so it's crazy to look at their career like they're not gonna do anything else um it's quite sad in the time you can't get old people out of the paint you know these guys have they said that publicly they haven't they haven't they don't do very much probably yeah but they're not really it's not trending that way no so one thing i do think is interesting about this movie specifically is um it did make the new york times 100 movies yeah it hit at 83 okay which is pretty good and then hit 95 on the reader's choice so it does have some standing sure um 95 is pretty good for the century for the readers for a movie that didn't make any money yeah i'm happy about that um but those two oscars they got only for just the misography and sound mixing i guess there's no original songs in the film because they're all folk traditions once again that's such a stupid category do you have a favorite performance in the movie like a favorite musical performance yeah i i think the what is it the ballad of queen jane whatever he plays at the gate of horn yeah for bud person yeah is um pretty like gut-wrenching and the oscar's performance is amazing because you know almost everything he's doing is like a talking walking person he is closed off sad looking and then he puts it all into the songs and so when he is singing i mean he can't sing but also like the actual depth of performance i'm on record saying is most people shouldn't sing but this is one of these situations where he is he's doing a lot with his singing and that is those three minutes or whatever is when it all bubbles up like the hope and the you know maybe it's gonna work out and even the text of the song itself is like no it's not actually not gonna work out you know like a folk song without a happy ending um but it's the best that's memorable yeah i like them all i mean we get to see him sing hang me oh hang me a couple times green green rocky road is a song i listened to on the way to school drop off this morning my daughter she did not ask me to turn it off always a good sign because she does not try to grab the ox cord for me at eight o'clock in the morning um over where are thou yeah the music was such a major part of that the movie sold soundtracks with eight million copies i think it did pretty well box office not a huge hit i would sense that you're like not it's not your favorite is it because it's a more slapsticky mode of the coen's yeah and it's not that i don't like they're very good at that and i appreciate it but i don't know honestly when clooney's trying that hard to be funny unless it's and it's i guess it's sort of making fun of him and burn after reading it he's making a lot of fun of himself yes but yeah it doesn't quite land for me communically with others do yeah i like it quite a bit but it does feel kind of stacked in the middle i know for some people like i know david shoemaker for example that's his favorite coen brothers movie and one of his favorite movies of all time i was surprised to hear when he said that but um i know it holds a special place i think some people will listen like well it's 21st century and it's a music movie and it's the odyssey and it's an arc about a loser well guess what we have another one uh we do um a complete unknown yeah does this movie look better after a complete unknown are they just a perfect match for two different filmmaking sensibilities does it how do you feel it looks better yeah come on because and it is also i think that i mean it's a great double feature also because what a complete unknown is doing and like sort of interrogating but also not interrogating like the lack of interrogation in a complete unknown to me is a little bit interesting but it does also have like the 4 000 shots of everyone gazing adoringly well that's the thing and this is just like 4 000 shots of oscar eyes of being like yeah that's the thing that's so interesting is a complete unknown i think this was a great choice this is the best thing about the movie but a complete unknown feels like james mangle watched inside lo and davis yeah watch the last 30 seconds of bob dylan singing farewell yeah and then it's like i'm gonna make a whole movie like that where we're at a distance we're at a remove we cannot deny the power and beauty of what this person represents but it is still mysterious to us yeah and we will not really process someone on the outside of that experience as much those are the only people that we get to really feel their feelings but they're really neatly matched it's really cool that like 10 years later you basically get a response movie the response response movie is like a little bit more typical sure a little bit more commercial and that is i think the performances in the response movie are very good i think the the cinematography and the production design and just a recreation of the village in inside lo and davis is unsurprisingly like pitch perfect um and so when you compare the two of them the complete unknown just looks a little bit more like they put instagram filters on something you know sometimes yeah you know that movie the complete unknown gets something right though that a lot of the folkies are really mad about inside lo and davis which is that it feels like a kind of more like rambunctious time and revelry in the folk scene where it's like everybody kind of knew each other it was very competitive but people were getting drunk and they were having sex and it felt more like they're really drunk and having sex in this movie it's just that that's experienced in in different a very mournful version of sex though you know a very mournful version of drinking there's not a lot of celebration and so i think you know a lot of these boomers look back at this movie when they released it yeah and they were like ironically why did we let these guys from minnesota of course where bob don't come from make a movie about granite village in the 60s they didn't get how fun everything was but that's not the idea of the movie right the idea of the movie is well they can have fun but they're having fun in god's universe you know not their own universe and we are all stuck in god's fate and uh that's a pretty good place to wrap this conversation any other double features we don't know no brother we're at our obvious matches i put train spotting here's my thinking on this there's not a lot of great movies about losers not a lot of great movies about like groups units periods of time you know yeah the kind of english and scottish uh smack heads of london in the 1990s that's a scene you know that is a scene is it as artistic as inside lewin davis not exactly but there's kind of poetry what what those characters are talking about i don't know anything else in mind no i think a complete unknown just jumped out and i guess for most people if you've seen a clean unknown recently enough that you can just go re-watch this and it is it is a fun exercise okay um but completely not on our list no it's not on our list uh we put two wolverine movies by james bangles on our list instead which i'm really excited about so two wolverine movies and the reader now everyone knows about so that knocks us down to what number is this one this is 15 how are you feeling i feel great our next episode will be our live episode we will be in chicago revealing a secret screening number 14 it's not secret it was announced it's not secret the title of the film is a secret can i ask you a question about this so because we're gonna we're gonna briefly intro the screening at the music box theater and then we're gonna record the episode live afterwards so when we go up to intro are we gonna say what the movie is or are we just gonna wait until it comes up on the screen amazing question i think we should do the latter and i haven't but it's also i'm asking now because it also affects my wardrobe strategy so um because you won't wear the revealing yeah exactly yeah you found the costume that kate winslet wore in the reader you're gonna wear it to the screening that's amazing to be clear i will not be wearing a nazi costume in chicago forever that's like a great idea that's bad okay uh i i like what you're cooking up i gotta say it's a good idea i hope that's okay yeah well i wouldn't be like at what point who's gonna be able to tell from like the you know the producers or the credits like at what point in the room can does someone know what it is oh yeah early on okay but we'll see the real heads the real big picture heads we'll get it right there's been some guesses yeah a popular guess was the dark night because it was shot in chicago um and could have represented the city as you know now that was not the case not the dark night okay um i'm very excited about that show i'm very excited about our live show which i can reveal will be a draft which will be fun cr will be there we got a sidebar on the rules of that draft um we can sidebar yeah eligibility i think we should just discuss or maybe we can save it for the stage that's fine that always goes well people love it when you yell at me about the rules i've created so maybe that's just a feature not a bug of that episode uh thank you to jack sanders for his work on this episode uh later this week in eddington podcast oh wow adam will join us to discuss ari aster's movie ari will also be on the show had a nice long conversation with him about it and i just got an enormous amount of feelings about this movie i'm very excited to be a little sharper than i normally would be and uh you feel excited to discuss it with me i'm very excited to talk about it now i'm like oh when am i going to see a second time i'm going on tuesday if you'd like to come okay i'll check the calendar okay thank you for listening to 25 or 25 well maybe we'll see you in chicago maybe not Thank you.