The American Math Crisis episode artwork

EPISODE · Nov 21, 2025 · 54 MIN

The American Math Crisis

from Plain English with Derek Thompson · host The Ringer

The University of California San Diego is one of the best public colleges in America. So it was fairly shocking when the school released a report on the steep decline in academic preparedness of its freshman. The number of incoming students in need of remedial math has surged in the past few years. These students did not fail high school math. Many of them got straight A's. Other colleges have seen similar trends: declining mathematical ability from students who aced their high school tests. I think that there are several ways to frame the problem we’re looking at here. One is that American kids can’t do math: That’s the headline of a recent Atlantic article by Rose Horowitch. Another frame, as Kelsey Piper writes in the online magazine The Argument, is that grades have stopped meaning anything. I think that the full story is somewhere in between. The age of grade inflation is also the age of achievement deflation. We are giving more and more A's to students who are learning less and less. There is a lot of talk these days about America moving into a postliterate future. One piece of evidence for this is declining test scores for literacy among students and adults. Fewer people talk about a post-numerate future. The problem here is bigger than UC San Diego. National assessments in the U.S. and even throughout the developed world show that people are getting worse at math. But why? Today we have three guests to help us answer these questions. Rose Horowitch of The Atlantic, Kelsey Piper of The Argument, and Joshua Goodman, an associate professor of education and economics at Boston University. We talk about plummeting math scores for American students, why it’s happening, and why it matters at a moment when carbon-based humans seem to be getting dumber at the very moment that silicon-based machines are getting smarter. If you have questions, observations, or ideas for future episodes, email us at [email protected]. Host: Derek Thompson Guests: Rose Horowitch, Kelsey Piper and Joshua Goodman Producers: Devon Baroldi Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The University of California San Diego is one of the best public colleges in America. So it was fairly shocking when the school released a report on the steep decline in academic preparedness of its freshman. The number of incoming students in need of remedial math has surged in the past few years. These students did not fail high school math. Many of them got straight A's. Other colleges have seen similar trends: declining mathematical ability from students who aced their high school tests. I think that there are several ways to frame the problem we’re looking at here. One is that American kids can’t do math: That’s the headline of a recent Atlantic article by Rose Horowitch. Another frame, as Kelsey Piper writes in the online magazine The Argument, is that grades have stopped meaning anything. I think that the full story is somewhere in between. The age of grade inflation is also the age of achievement deflation. We are giving more and more A's to students who are learning less and less. There is a lot of talk these days about America moving into a postliterate future. One piece of evidence for this is declining test scores for literacy among students and adults. Fewer people talk about a post-numerate future. The problem here is bigger than UC San Diego. National assessments in the U.S. and even throughout the developed world show that people are getting worse at math. But why? Today we have three guests to help us answer these questions. Rose Horowitch of The Atlantic, Kelsey Piper of The Argument, and Joshua Goodman, an associate professor of education and economics at Boston University. We talk about plummeting math scores for American students, why it’s happening, and why it matters at a moment when carbon-based humans seem to be getting dumber at the very moment that silicon-based machines are getting smarter. If you have questions, observations, or ideas for future episodes, email us at [email protected]. Host: Derek Thompson Guests: Rose Horowitch, Kelsey Piper and Joshua Goodman Producers: Devon Baroldi Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

NOW PLAYING

The American Math Crisis

0:00 54:07

No transcript for this episode yet

We transcribe on demand. Request one and we'll notify you when it's ready — usually under 10 minutes.

MG Show MG Show The MG Show, hosted by Jeffrey Pedersen and Shannon Townsend, is a leading alternative media platform dedicated to uncovering the truth behind today’s most pressing political issues. Launched in 2019, the show has grown exponentially, offering unfiltered insights, comprehensive research, and real-time analysis. With a commitment to independent journalism and factual integrity, the MG Show empowers its audience with knowledge and encourages active participation in the political discourse. French Your Way Jessica: Native French teacher founder of French Your Way Boost your French listening skills and test your comprehension with this one of a kind series of podcasts. Get the chance to listen to a real conversation between native speakers talking at normal speed AND customise your learning experience through carefully designed sets of questions (2 levels of difficulty) available for download at www.frenchvoicespodcast.com. All interviews also come with the transcript. French teacher Jessica interviews native speakers of French from around the world who share a bit of their life and passion. Where else would you meet in one same place a French yoga teacher based in Melbourne, a soap manufacturer from Provence, or a couple cycling around the world? That Hoarder: Overcome Compulsive Hoarding That Hoarder Hoarding disorder is stigmatised and people who hoard feel vast amounts of shame. This podcast began life as an audio diary, an anonymous outlet for somebody with this weird condition. That Hoarder speaks about her experiences living with compulsive hoarding, she interviews therapists, academics, researchers, children of hoarders, professional organisers and influencers, and she shares insight and tips for others with the problem. Listened to by people who hoard as well as those who love them and those who work with them, Overcome Compulsive Hoarding with That Hoarder aims to shatter the stigma, share the truth and speak openly and honestly to improve lives. The Small Business Startup School – Business Notes | Financial Literacy | Retail Psychology – For Professionals & Entrepreneurs The Small Business Startup School Inc. Starting or buying a small business? While personal circumstances may vary, business patterns remain timeless. On The Small Business Startup School, we explore strategies, insights, and practical solutions to help entrepreneurs confidently navigate their journey.Hosted by Ola Williams—a retail entrepreneur, fintech founder, and financial coach with over two decades of experience—this podcast marries financial awareness and retail psychology with optimism to deliver actionable takeaways.Join us to learn, grow, and connect as we uncover the keys to business success.Let’s continue to learn together and be encouraged to keep on connecting!

Frequently Asked Questions

How long is this episode of Plain English with Derek Thompson?

This episode is 54 minutes long.

When was this Plain English with Derek Thompson episode published?

This episode was published on November 21, 2025.

What is this episode about?

The University of California San Diego is one of the best public colleges in America. So it was fairly shocking when the school released a report on the steep decline in academic preparedness of its freshman. The number of incoming students in need...

Can I download this Plain English with Derek Thompson episode?

Yes, you can download this episode by clicking the download button on the episode player, or subscribe to the podcast in your preferred podcast app for automatic downloads.
URL copied to clipboard!