The Avett Brothers Return

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert Expert Expert. I'm Dan Rather and I'm joined by Modus Mouse. Hello. Hi, what are you reading over there?

The same intro? Yeah. Today we have our friends on. The Ava brothers, they're back.

There's around two Ava brothers. Yes. But we get some good singing in this one. It's so fun.

They're so, so special. They are. They combine to make something impossible. Yeah, they do.

Yes, sitting in the middle of it was transcendent. Fuck. That's what I want to say. Oh.

The word transcendent? Yeah, I was going to say it again. OK. That's like a whole thing.

OK. The Ava brothers are a Grammy-nominated folk rock band. Their albums include, Closer Than Together, True Sadness, Magpie, Endandelion, The Carpenter, I, and Love in You. And they have a new album out now called Self-Titled, The Ava brothers.

Yeah, they did a little loop-de-loop. They did. And they went self-titled now. Yeah, most people start self-titled.

They're one, two, three, four, five. This is a sixth album. That's cool move. It is.

I like it. You're going to love Ava brothers. What a special performance we get from both of them. Yes.

Please enjoy. He's an entrepreneur. What one here? It's a concert.

Hi, boys. How are you? Good. You guys are an infamous concert.

I'm going to show you how to do it. You have a cayorid round in downstairs? I bet if you've laid it down there, we'd be able to hear it. Take them in, Monica.

I know. It's once in a lifetime. Have you guys been offered coffee and all this? Yeah, I got a coffee like I know I should.

I'm not drinking coffee. Scott, how is that gone? For him not drinking coffee? Not drinking coffee.

I found it to be a betrayal. And off-putting? Yeah. Who wants to hang with a guy who's not drinking coffee?

Well, he doesn't have coffee with you. I'll tell you that much. And if he ain't having coffee with you, what is he doing? What is he doing?

What is he doing? What is he doing? How's the air up there, Seth, on that more high ground? What, not tea?

Are you a tea guy? It's stifling. I like tea. I like decaf.

He likes coffee, actually. Yeah, I love coffee when I smell it. All the more offensive. How are you?

It's true. It's just that I have so much self-control. I know! He's proclaiming to the world I'm a stoic.

You should have his shirt that says I'm a stoic. It's so much worse that you love it. Isn't it? Yeah.

Someone who quits something every 10 days. For sure. But I would argue the thing I quit was driving the car into the ditch. Seth was just getting more energetic and likable.

No, not more. I didn't have a plan this only happened out of solidarity because Jennifer was doing this cleanse no meat no caffeine I was like I'll do it with you just for fun, but I had such a headache for about seven or eight days I moved through it and then I was like well. That's it. I'm not going back.

That's a great motivation You don't like the headphones. Do I have to have them? No? Yeah, that's a great motivation, but similar solutions don't ever stop I understand that wanting to have the headaches ever again, but just resume and don't stop.

It's always readily available It's not like you can't get a hold of coffee. We all have our little battles with having to depend on things I just didn't like I don't want to defend on that. I know I get that way too. I didn't mean to pick a fight with you No, I took it really hard as you can see.

I'm thinking about it too later This just feels like good motivation just to come back to it I've been missing out Well, what would be great is if I could get you to do it now because as we discussed Michael Paulen wrote about caffeine in one of the books And he said that after two months off of it. He takes his first sip and he's like it's like doing cocaine That's the thing I do have it about once every few months and it's awesome. Oh, yeah, rock. Maybe that's the way to do it How are you doing?

I'm good. You're good. You're good. We're your energy level out.

It's solid. We've both been up since about two 30 this morning Yeah, but I'm peeking right now. So this is this midday for you. This is good.

You're fucked for camel. Yeah, camel's gonna get Sorry about that. Kimmel's downriver. Why were you guys up since two 30?

We're on a lot of time. Okay, but you didn't fly here this morning We flew here yesterday yesterday. Yeah, and I mean I wake up around five thirty and you boys over at that Hilton Universal No, I love the Hilton. It's a lot closer to here than where we are.

Yes, that was explaining to me that you guys have to stay there Because of the tour bus parking basically we have in the past and we fell in love with it I get turned into this little thing those two but you've told us the story about your relationship with it and your perspective of the area But you have a much more dynamic relationship with the area and some people you encountered there for people didn't hear that Episode I think he's referring to the time that five gentlemen almost jumped me in the lobby of AMC 26 over there at Universal City Walk But I love that I have certain you guys must we were just talking about it There's a hotel in Austin and it's where I stayed on my very second movie ever for seasons we can shout it Yeah, and it's the first time I ever stayed out of four seasons and it's on the river and I was doing a movie with Mike Judge and I walk into the lobby at hotel and it's I bet as close as I'll feel to church that people feel Oh, this is so special Where do you most look forward to going? We're kind of delivers every time other than the Hilton Universal? Well, we do have a couple of spots So we can't say on Mike because they are away from places and they're really random Okay, and they're usually rural we've found a couple of really sweet spots in rural areas for days off that you wouldn't expect and they're not necessarily fancy They're just really good for bus parking and for space and for being able to walk to a place that has good juice Just an ice usable spot. Here's the rule.

So somebody said well What's the prerequisite to know where you're gonna go and say if you can leave the bus door unlocked? That's hard to find and are you finding that's possible at the Hilton Universal City want? You do not you do not leave the doors unlocked. It's very rare that you leave the doors unlocked You leave the motor running there.

I'll tell you that much. Yeah, not the generator The one that you can put into park and drive you gotta make a pasty exit are these places so sacred that even off Are you not gonna let me in on them cuz you know I too contend with bus parking. We'll tell you off You know Chi Chi we'll send you a map. Are you guys allergic to fancy?

Do you feel embarrassed if you're out of fancy? No, I like fans now. Okay, we're not doing good Yeah, if you broke up Scott's sections of his life He had a period like if you were an artist and he had a sunflower period Scott had a whole period that was G-Wag I was obsessed with you. Oh, yeah, I saw you live a few times Keep it off your tongue.

I mentioned it during song. Yes, you did. I can't believe that some point that he just gave you one I mean my man you were out there promoting the product not anymore and then you didn't get the product still may eventually This is a really good approach to life You have something you can get it's a little stoicism You resist the urge because the fantasies generally better than the acquisition Yeah, must be but I tried to talk you into and I want to tell the story of this really lifetime fantasy You guys granted me two summers ago. I'll hit you with that first I had been begging you guys to let me ride on the bus and act like I'm in a rockman for a minute keep asking keep asking apparently logistics was always the issue Locations couldn't be provided because of privacy But by God Aaron we clean I were driving around in my bus and we're like where are we gonna go?

We have two weeks to fuck around and I thought let's see where the Haven brothers are playing cool It's awesome We were North Dakota when I googled this and I was like by God there in Indianapolis in three days So we hightailed it down to Indianapolis and we got to park our bus with y'all's buses. Fuck me. That was great. It was nice Thank you for that, you know, I talk with Jennifer We thought that's a few times always laugh about you and your bus because it's There's a reason that bands lease them You know, it's like a house.

There's always something breaking. They're not cheap to buy They're not cheap to run and there's a million working parts and they're always breaking the brand new ones are breaking We also talk about how impractical it is. Oh, yeah, our most recent car station about it She was like, but why did he buy it instead of like borrowing? We want to I'm like, babe That's wants to drive the bus.

That's the difference like we lease a bus wheelies a driver He helps us, you know, we've been with him for many years Sometimes you wake up and the guys watching the inside of the windshield while driving the vehicle fully off the seat That is happened. That's why I want to drive the bus. Yeah, it's not just the bus It's not just that type of travel acts. He needs to be behind the wheel of the giant engine I got to spend 60% of the vacation fixing the fucking contraption It doesn't even begin to explain it and the guy who I bought it from David Garza in Dallas He said that's this is like owned in a home That's in a hurricane with a hundred mile an hour winds at all times I just had was like two hands like on the side of the house that you live in That's what is happening to it.

So of course the hot water here is gonna break sooner The seals are gonna come undone. It's just how everything's gonna break inside it It's a perfect thing to own if you love problem solving You got a busy mind you want to get out there and figure out why you got no power and that's working And it provides the same thing that it's provided for people that love RV and camping you get to have your cozy little home anywhere And the most embarrassing thing I can bring on my weight. How else am I gonna travel with a few hundred pounds of weights? You're not gonna be able to do it next.

That's the bottom line. And so really it was imperative That's true. I would love to see the little mazes in your mind that work out how to justify certain purchases Like well, I gotta take the weights with me. Sorry Chris and I gotta buy this Gotta have Lincoln's dirt bike everywhere we go.

Yeah, what would you do if she didn't ever dirt bike that she really likes to ride that? I can't drop this thing off of UPS and have them chip it over there. Okay, so Scott on that lovely little What was fun about is we were parked with you guys and then we would wake up in the bus and we come out Basically just live like the bandit. We meet you all for the meals before the show chit chat.

It was so fun We were catching mice in the thing. I don't know if you remember that part of like a house You can get mice in the bus. It does come with your bus. They are an ad on you.

Yeah upgrade I was trying to talk you into a raptor are yeah, that's right and I thought I had tickled your fancy a bit Yeah, but did you get that so I didn't? Scott made a purchase recently that you'd be interested in though that he immediately regretted how do I say this uh, You know some people make one really big purchase every now and again And then some people make a lot of pitley purchases and break themselves doing that so I would back off with something like a raptor R or G wag which I think are just blessings to this world. Okay. They're not just fans.

It's like a fancy hotel room I think this is a gift. Yeah, and it's not just luxury. It's earthly Beauty I think the Hawaiians would call it mama. It's power with that too.

So what I did end up doing was buying a 1986 Ford crown Vic Yes, 22,000 original miles. It's like a brand new car. It's incredible purchase. I don't know it is I'm having some title issues with it because it came from Pennsylvania.

No problem working it out But we're still trying to clear the paperwork I'm not sure I think I bought it because what we were watching men in black and in the boys We saw the black one that he's driving that they heard it, you know Oh, man, look that's like an incredible car. They didn't make them like they are and they don't fly like they're not like men in black No, but so we purchased this car. Do you know I was horny for the exact same car really? Oh my god, that's one of my favorite movie cars of all time because it's so goddamn plain in stupid and boxy They're blocked and in the way they made it sound in the movie and with 22,000 miles.

It is pristine It's like sitting in a brand new car. It's really weird because nobody's saved to those cars They bought them for their family and they wore them out for us in our generation We see that it's like oh, I remember my buddy mom had this car and we rode into school or whatever, but no It's as close as I can get to time travel It is So I bought the exact same thing but the GM model because Lincoln has a Lincoln to inherit and I was like Delta needs a Delta to inherit And they all will build made the Delta 88 and it is this stupid and boxy and boring is that crown Vic? And so I bought an 85 Delta 88 that's currently getting an LS3 and a six feet So that's the trick we got to link up when we come down to national you and I got to do like a stupid hot rod car Cruise so I need to do that in that car. We have enough resources around Charlotte.

You could dumpster dive and find an ass car motor What you guys are? Throwing away crazy part. It's ridiculous, but I had started earlier. What is the venue that never fouls to?

Rekindle the romance in the nostalgia. There are several the new answer then you was it called now? Elp oil loco The pain come new you guys play the bank when you go to New Hampshire? Well, we're going to financial center theater Oh APR loans to low credit score arena amphitheater It's like an old fair ground, but there's several that one comes to mind just because of the nostalgia of being there is red rock up there It is yeah such a relationship.

It's been 30 what six times we play so we have a history with it in terms of always delivering Yeah, it's like that it's been so celebrated. It's more exciting for us to think about other places But red rocks is an obvious answer as a place that can never be built now You can never get permission to build that because what they just blasted out. Yeah, like in whatever 1900 car I'm like one of the most beautiful Yeah, it's a theater thank God they got that happening before you couldn't in a way But there is quite a spiritual element to seeing a show there or performing there We've developed a personal relationship with it at this point You know it's one thing to pass through it on the way as you hit start them We've developed this long-lasting personal relationship with it Is it the same date every year? It's a similar time frame But it's for us kind of like our new year show we've done 20 years in a row now of a new year show every year It took a long time I think for Scott and I both to Accept it as just something to enjoy rather than this occasion that we had to rise to which sort of took some of the joy out of it Of course So red rock's got the same thing with so much renown and so much in the spirit of in the history of it that it took many times for me to be Okay being there and just know that I can inhabit the place I don't have to match the energy of 10,000 people I can just have fun with them It's easier to do that in certain venues red rocks took longer to get there could we say maybe that you belong there?

Yeah, that's a good simple true way put it Oh good That brings me to a later question I had for you But that kind of sums up perhaps an interesting challenge for artists Which is I think all of us don't feel like we belong we're at for some long period of time And there's a bunch of weird reactions that come out of that you see it with young artists and then you do you Read that sweet spot where you're like okay. No, no enough times pass. It wasn't a fluke I belong here That's a nice zone to be in but is that potentially problematic for creativity and even further as life carries on you guys are getting older And I'm getting older and your life gets more sorted. It gets more stable There's less angst and ire is it harder to keep the engine flying creatively when we just think of what causes all these great Outbursts of creativity you're like hurting cuz you love someone you have your first baby see sections and railway trussles these things happen And then you know less stuff happens Like Mike building 86 ground back by choice.

It's not getting boring Maybe the key component is being involved invested and interested in your own life because it's not getting boring I wouldn't think that performing would ever get right but in terms of the creation side like the idea like making a thing Continuing to give yourself permission to do things that are scary creatively certainly doesn't have to be fueled by a Conflict of like a negative nature. I think that's something that had to be learned possibly for our generation or certainly when I think about my own personal Relationship with art I did connect early on to more tortured whole Cobain LA Smith kind of world or going further back just looking at all the different artists that have had troubles mixed into their output But that's not the only art that I love Tom T. Hall and Beatles music about love and it doesn't have to be a conflict necessarily That makes sense but definitely I would imagine that music part of it is a salve or solve. That's a tough word to say So I thought it was sad.

Yeah, we don't need the Silent out That's good at all but don't you find when your hardcore depress hardcore heartbroken the song becomes a bit of the remedy. Yeah I certainly know that that's how we consume and use music in a way This is an unbearable feeling but weirdly when I pair it with this cure song now. This is okay I kind of can live in this funk we have company which is nice Yeah, you feel a little less alone and it's just like any organizational tool I talking to a therapist a lot Time is just talking let me get this out. It can be helpful to you can be helpful to others But yeah, I certainly don't think that it needs to go away just because things in your life are getting sorted or you're learning That should be caused to make even more and have even more fun with it and discover more angles that you haven't discovered yet Yes, some of the artists you mentioned they were almost paying themselves in a corner They had to shovel more chaos into their life regularly another divorce another divorce another this, you know Right another OB.

It's like a cop out. I was thinking about this the other day man am I out of new thoughts I was thinking so much of coming up with all these thoughts in my 20s and early 30s And now I'm like I haven't had a new thought in quite a long time Which is scary, but then I was like I need to force myself I mean we do this here all the time we repeat what we've already figured out as opposed to what haven't I figured out What am I still curious about but when life's going pretty well? You're not really forced to do that you almost have to make yourself do that well life going really well It just sort of presents an illusion that you have something figured out right? Right like believing it that's the problem.

Yeah, that's so true Because it maybe it just means that you're not challenging yourself or opening yourself up to enough of a new experience to be Confronting that you have the same takeaways. Well, I kind of doubt that you've ever had a new thought in your life Oh, there we go. Okay. Yeah, I doubt that I have either really I think about three things They're conflict covenant and practicality and so I don't think what caused Kurt Cobain conflict is what made him creative at the end of the day I think it probably was a major distraction and unfortunately was probably the end of it I could be wrong that's just a guess and I think about our covenant to our creativity So our commitment the objective demands to being a creator and so as we get older we think about we're not athletes like we were we are Athletic on stage, but that changes over time if you ride motorcycles or BMX eventually, you know changes how you do it You have to but what only gets better with ages are writing certainly just gets better and better probably no new thoughts But we keep returning to these same things within that covenant of commitment to it So in a way there is not necessarily any need for any new it's our commitment then there's this practicality to like okay wait So when I was younger I was thinking about these mystical truths that I was shuffling through to find which there's reality that There's certainly mystical truths that we all reach for but what are the practical things that I can do to set myself up to create So it has the mechanics of how you guys create evolved at all massively this most recent album that we're here to talk about the Avid brothers side note most people do a self-titled album on the debut There's got to be some rhyme or reason to that earmark that but when you're working on the Avid brothers newest album How has that process changed the process changed majorly by technology and tandem with art technologies cutting through and doing all these things and arts Responded into it what was happening to us as well because we all of a sudden realize well We can make this record in Malibu Concord North Carolina and Nashville and really other places as well because we're sitting there tagging ideas constantly Still and so you think that make you make the record faster But maybe not and for us we made it slower because I think there was more listening there was more critical thinking in it That's a side thought but one thing I've learned in the past five six seven years is feeling that belonging It's like feeling at home This is your spot you haven't changed it since last time we were in here whether you know it or I know it or anybody It's for a reason so for me what I learned was something Chris Cornell told us to was I work best when I'm comfortable And if I'm sensitive to where I am when I'm leaving where I'm going who's there what am I eating I'm not as comfortable do I belong here And so what I learned in it was through technology.

I was very comfortable at home being able to record We did that at Seth Studio, but it was like right across the street So I sing better when I'm like that because I've got nobody telling me let's go We got ten hours here at the studio in Malibu. We're gonna be for ten days Let's go I like to work slowly and Seth and I can work slowly together and we don't get in chose business And that's something that's good for me. I learned that the way Scott writes music so far as I can tell I've always been a little more of like a studious get in my comfort Play get in my kitchen when it's quiet and lay out the sketch books in front of me in the tape recorder and the guitar and the Pickin the tuner and everything and work on it like a book and with Scott It's always more lightning in the bottle so early on I would expect him to work like me Maybe we make some steak a lot expecting others to navigate things like we do But I would like give him an idea and I would think that well He's gonna go and work on it and then he'll come back but being in the room with Scott and playing him the idea He hears it for the first time and then responds I like to work like that too But he really excels in that way and sort of the franticness and the rapid fire of love of a girl It did anything more about Scott's energy and what he brings to the table musically I gotta just tell you this so Seth and I hung out a couple weeks ago lovely hang by my estimation I give it an a plus a really do it was a great opportunity to get up to that Hilton Universal We were in the roadmaster Isaac and Jennifer sat in the back seat of the faces of the rear They're all kinds of new rattles in the dash Yeah, so to tell me that you guys have been playing with a really huge act recently Who's the country look homes, but no con was another one that we've sang with all this to say you guys been playing some bonkers huge venues Right in your plane so far that's tomorrow But yeah, I think I may mention what Luke is just a giant I mean, no is this huge didn't know it's like I guess more like on a songwriter pop sort of world It's taken him in and then Luke is just a massive country so at this point Yeah, and you're like playing so fine And I was saying to set what's it like that transition to the fucking full-blown arena and you know the first thing He said and I'm kind of always waiting for him to dish on you because fuck I have a brother if you get me alone I'm like this motherfucker will shut up about politics. He thinks he's got all thing You know, he's never done it since I met him and in fact I go what's it like playing these enormous arenas and he goes You know I just had a moment one time because we go first and people are sometimes there to see the main act And I'll be behind Scott watching him walk out into the middle in the long catwalk and I'll be thinking hey guys Open your fucking eyes.

That's a star right there Oh my and he said that in your absence and I was like, oh my god What a sweet brother and I said he is my god look it's an interesting thing being 23 years into this band right? Yeah, and being the opening act we're not kids. We're older. I'm almost 44 Scott's almost 48 I don't know what we look like to an audience of 60,000 people There's a lot of young people out there.

I don't know what we look like, but I'm sure that we don't look like what I think that we look like Very nice, we're still excited to be there earlier 36 as well like when you're 19, you don't know like you all are both gorgeous But it is possible that the 19 are like In that scenario I just have to say we're getting on an age We're still excited to be there We're still excited to share this music, but we found ourselves back in that very wonderful very precious place of introduction of a crowd's 50,000 60,000 people it's almost like there's counties like different regions like these 4,000 over here might be digging it It's hard to tell you know, it's just so giant But what I was seeing in front of me were a ton of young people teenagers people in their early 20s that were processing They're just looking at you. They don't know the songs There's no relationship whatsoever They are buying their time to see Luke which I appreciate and going out on the thrust on the catwalk type thing and like throwing down a Dancing and singing and going for it when you're 20 is one thing because you're showing off There's a lot of reasons to do it But it's different than doing it when you're in your 40s and we are in this place of Settleness and who we are that to me really shines like to see it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we're playing the song we're doing a man He just went out there. I was proud to be up there with him.

The thought did go through my mind like all you kids pay attention Yeah, this is it like look at him. He's the one is the real deal. There's a star right here Yeah, it's not show off for the sake of show off He's throwing down because he belongs right there and we're having fun together. There is no threatening ego in it There's no dangerous ego in it.

There is no I'm better than you in it There's just somebody that's just doing their thing at a high level. Yes. Look at this Well, are you in your this and third person to I can talk about him as well right now just okay Yeah, and I know what you're saying in your 20s. You're trying to establish and define but at 47 You're kind of mastered now.

You are the thing at this point exactly It doesn't matter anymore. There is no prize you transcend it We do it because it's gonna be a great show and I think Luke is awesome It's an honor to be playing in front of him and to be involved and to be invited all that's awesome But we don't have this thing anymore where we think man if we play before this big rack We'll get more fans when I'll talk like that we don't think like that It's a luxury not to think like that but we're just on our journey It tickles me to think that some out there might see that and think that it's funny sure There's all do like dancing or that some might connect and think like all's badass who knows what they think that's secondary It doesn't really matter. It's just that we're doing our thing and we're where we need to be and it's my big brother and he's killing it Oh my god, you guys are cute I wish I had you as a little brother I know Oh shit, you're like why this guy by a fucking button Oh man, what a compliment right? It is nice.

I feel like compliments from your baby sibling There's nothing that beats that I'm painted this huge painting in 2020 to the finish that it went to New York to be shown in a show of paintings during covid time and a lot of the paintings were loved at that time and this was a painting of just looking down at Creek that's all it was and so it wasn't exactly a covid time painting But it was very much was for me and Seth and Jennifer bought the painting from me and when my gallery We were on the phone talking about the deal and how do you do it? And he was like it's got just so, you know Nobody's family members much less than brothers. Like sometimes it's a mom or a dad, you know But brothers and sisters don't buy major pieces of art from their siblings Okay, another thing something I think about and then put away is nerve sometimes I feel old I'm hoping that somebody would look out there and go what nerves this guy have I just step out here on this catwalk at 47 and jump around like He's whatever what nerve and I'm like I can hang on to that eventually I'll be in a wheelchair so what nerve this guy have to roll out look at Willie at some point Scott We'll be in a wheelchair going out there who'll be like 80 and I'll be back there 76 at that point I'll have no reserve whatsoever during this all be like y'all look at that You like you saw Unfortunately, you will probably be wheeling him out into the catwalk, but that's fine You have an obvious confidence Scott But I do wonder if you allowed yourself to evaluate how much of that have you been able to build off of ses pretty undying love for you In adoration is it a big chunk of the foundation for sure like you once got to live up to what he thinks you are No, I don't think I want to make sure that I can reflect and reciprocate the sentiment That's the key because I'm a little harsher and a little rough around the edges I don't think in my heart, but in my behavior. Yeah, yeah I will be willing to say more things that I'll regret I think a lot of times that way be a little quieter today No, no If I listen back to something I'll hear how I try to interject every opportunity I can and it's nice to listen I make an observation that comes from a place of I think I deeply relate Which is I think it's really healthy to be very self-aware And then I also think it can tip into a little bit of getting in your way of just existing a hundred percent The first feeling of that was with children here you go gets in the way and then you go Okay, I want to push on this and you think you're supposed to kill your ego like early and That's not the deal.

No, no, I love my ego and really it's to foster into love and really lift up No, I'm in so I'm with you There's a lot of thinking about disappearing and I can use on that we've written some about that but you point the self-reflection Is like forget it come on let's do this. Let's be people. Yeah, let's shut this thing off. Yeah, we didn't talk about it anymore Let's have some coffee.

Yeah Alright, I want to hear by the way, thank you for offering because I always feel very guilty asking musicians to perform I don't know what we both do right pressure and we want everyone to feel comfortable. It's different here though We're friends Well, I'm just so glad you offered because I wouldn't have asked but it would always be my pick that you guys would play a few songs Anytime you're here, so we know that I've got to give the chewed up discarded remains to Kimmel shortly So maybe we should get to jam it a little bit and then I have some more questions Yeah, we can we got to figure out what we can do Are you open to like playing a song chatting playing a song chatting or would you want to chat chat chat chat play songs and get the fuck out? Yeah, we can play a joke. Okay, now we've referenced some songs would be good to hear right?

Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare I will say one thing it's funny. You're just now considering what songs you can play here and add it You had a few days to think about oh my work I was kind of self-reflective thing. We didn't really think about it all. I didn't bring an instrument that I see that.

Yeah, so you need anything. I have a player. Do you have a banjo? Oh fuck.

Why don't you have a band? How do you not travel with the banjo? We just didn't have the bus. We are loved.

That's a no brainer Yeah, I'm itching to talk about country kid more than this one Oh, I think we also could just play country kid just from the guitar and just say we told it Well play what you're gonna play. I mean we do country kid after that and then I want to chat about some fun Oh You don't have headphones on but it just got real smooth in here This song gets loud on the mic with the vocals so just as long as you know as you can see runs a one-man everything Yeah, when I see the guy putting the mic on the car that made the coffee earlier Let me know we're good. We'll go. All right, we are left Whether we speak up or we are silent If we are Or we are done We may be burdened but we are loved Whether we stay true do for another If we are hidden or we're discovered We're forgiven We're forgotten we may be alone, but we are loved Ever-e-stitch and seem Ever-e-wish and dream Even in tragedy There lies divinity Even as hope seems lost it may be found again I have never if you are standing Oh, can I stop moving if you are haunted Oh, can I remember over the gravestone Under the rainbow Pain comes and pain goes and we are loved Ever-e-stitch and seem Ever-e-wish and dream Even in tragedy Even as hope seems lost it may be found If we are spirit or we are human Crossing the river or harboring change Or if we say we are loved Oh my god, you guys.

Oh my god. Oh my god. How can humans do this? Oh my god, you know what's nuts?

There are so many beautiful instruments in the world What are the chances that really the human voice is the number one? That's impossible. It's gotta be right maybe not mine, but Seth you beautiful boy. I know such a beautiful boy.

It drives me nuts. Okay Fucking sweet you become and you play like a laser beam. It's nuts that you have that kind of control over your voice You guys have such a way apart from just being beautiful sounding there's something that happens when you two are together doing it It is transcendent like that is the only way we've had a lot of people come play everyone's amazing But there's a moment of real there can be harmony in the world. It's so special.

That was perfectly said Monica transcendent to the operative word There's also an implicit beautiful potential for family and blood and siblings. There's something that happens That's really big Scott and I really lucky to play music together and sing together because I think that we haphazardly present Like a thing that can't get presented by a solo artist Which is basically just a lifting up of another or like a collaboration in real time that's loving and trusting It's an example that we get to show just kind of a bad happen sense That's what it is. It's hopeful because we all have siblings and it's hard. I love my little sister I love my brother, but this is somehow a display of the most hopeful union to me more than just siblings It's any relationship.

It's such a visceral sort of embodiment of how two people individually are great But the mix can elevate to such an incredible level that you would never have on your own the kinship part is just sort of That's how it happened the universality is the point that like we want to believe and know that we can work together And if we have examples we can make something together that I can never do alone that same truth goes for all of us And that's the thing sometimes you really don't want to believe that because you don't want to count on somebody else But Scott and I we have built a thing where we have over time just announced to the world or anyone that would pay attention Like we count on each other but we don't talk about it I know I know and I'm just doing it because what it becomes what you're saying is I like what that symbolizes You like Kendrick Lamar. He's got that line in King Koon to maybe I don't talk about it I'm gonna be about it. I had to play that for my daughter the other day song is It could be celebrated enough. Yeah, so good, but yeah, there's a whole fun This honestly my brothers coming Sunday We only get to see each other once or twice a year and we're gonna do the only thing we can do which is play Grass volleyball together when we're on team together.

That's as close as we get It is and in those moments There's a bittersweet heartache where it's like God if we could have figured out how to work together We'd be unstoppable in a way. There is some crazy strength That's also kind of like that dog you have that passes away and you lose this pup and maybe you did all these wrong things Whether you get the next dog in that dog's honor I hope this makes sense you raise this one just right our brothers and sisters are out here on the street And if you miss that opportunity with your sibling in the honor of that you go, you know what when this Joker says this thing that I want to bark Back or punch him or whatever instead I'm gonna love him in honor of the time that I have screwed this up That's where you start really getting at it and that sounds like a pipe dream, but it's real But you're right. I think it's better expressed in doing and not thinking or talking You don't got to lean into the belief that it's just there. Can't be acknowledging that stuff It's so awesome to hear it This was the moment at the end of the dock where you guys put down that impossible first take of no hard feelings Oh, yeah, and Scott was like fucked up over it or at least it appeared in the movie I don't know that I want to acknowledge that this happens embarrassing.

I think that's ultimately it Yes, we it's that talks about in love of a girl in a way where he says doesn't talk about its celebration. It's ever that's funny And psychoanalysis so my therapist he has this interesting thought experiment He makes me at least consider is that that inherent Icarus flying too close to the Sun Do we have this fear that to really own what we are and acknowledge what we are it would be taken from us because we flew too close to the Sun earlier? I was gonna say this Seth was talking about process and I was envisioning what my process is Seth when you explain how he lays things out and Organizes things ritual what I realized was I'm in constant I don't know if it's your Gemini whatever, but this conflict that I put myself in to deter the knee tone up to the task Right, so it comes out in this thing while I'm painting but the song's pulling on me And I'll say well do it But I don't have to completely succeed at it because I'm doing this and I do that in all these ways and in older age you go Acknowledge this go and try to win this So okay instead of making it like you're terrified to fly too close to the Sun because you're afraid instead if I could go back to that If we were recording the hard feelings and if it was a congratulating each other over that what I felt or not I would have said absolutely all good job I wouldn't mess with it now. It was the growth from and watching that was painful over that Yeah, I didn't see that it was a really interesting wonderful moment that was caught on camera every now and then you see them We called you on a fact check yeah We interviewed Ruben and I wanted his perspective on what happened which is bound to be radically different and as close as we are to Rick that was something to him that was bizarre that we would let it because to him he was seen it as like keep it rolling now You know we get a break.

I was going where for us. I was like watershed moment But Scott I think I'll probably projecting a lot but I feel like I relate is there this weird tension between I'm afraid to fail and not be great So I can almost not tackle this thing I've got to convince myself I'm doing something else and this other thing is ancillary so it turns out good great But if I commit to this and focus on it and it's not great then I have failed So I have this work around and then on the other side of it is when I'm great I can't acknowledge I'm great because that's flying too close to the Sun and I'll be smited for this runaway ego right right So like you're never winning either you're gonna suck and fail or you've succeeded and you're not allowed to succeed It's like what is this trap we built first? Yeah, but I'll tell you a lot I think just being southern and growing up in the church my counselors out here Uh-huh and we talk a lot about this you need a west coast there but it's just right up But speaking of her like she'll sort of lay that out like what's the guilt status here? What's the humility aim?

I think it's easy to hear in our voices You just sort of assume that that's gonna be something that is hard on us But we grew up in really a very confident urge us to be cocky we were willing to say yeah, I'm great Right, we have a problem with that we didn't feel real guilty about that and maybe we were a little secretive about it We weren't like Rick Blair, Rick Blair But we might be acting like Billy Graham on the outside we were candy grip it we were dusty Yeah, yeah, I wish for it but yeah, I think there's truth to that. I don't think it haunts us too hard You didn't ask any this is completely unsolicited But I'll just say the one word that my therapist gave me that's been a breakthrough in all this is presidential Which is you should act presidential and I'm like oh that feels like the perfect middle ground between egomaniac and denying who you are Like okay, you're on a mission. It's justified presidential. All right, so you just put the betweens Because I'm in the thick of this right now, but there's the is and there's the ought and that tension between the is and the ought is where we live And what's the quality of that tension a bad quality would be one that's pulled far to the is It is what it is screw it.

I'm gonna do this is who I am deal with it And he never really look at that ought and when I go towards that all I kind of land not as far down as just it is It just is what it is whatever, but you never had either one of them It's how the quality of that attention oh, I love that framing It's really something okay before you play don't talk about country kid And I hope this comes as a compliment because in my top five country songs of all time is country boy by Hank Williams jr It's so good the level of pride I would feel when I would latch on to that song saying about being a kid from the dirt road singing a little bit Oh, I'll do the whole thing with you. I live back in the woods. You see I got a shot gonna rival in a 40 We'll drive an 100 boy can survive There it is. Yeah, I got a country boy can survive What a fucking song so good definitely male one point Yeah, we grew up on that song that means all over the place We're gonna solve problems by spitting beach nut in the guys eye and then shooting them with 45 Obviously not but let boys be boy.

Yeah, but look we're not gonna miss an opportunity. You got a rhyme survive That's right 45 But there was a version of that pride we grew up with and it's a beautiful thing to explore We've had Barbara Kingsolver on who wrote demon copper Had Regisley but she's huge. It's about young boy growing up in Appalachia. Mom's an addict brought home to a trailer.

She od's he's in foster He becomes an opiate addict. It's beautiful and it is so kind and generous and thoughtful to what the people in Appalachia experience There's a scene in the book where the kid actually says you guys know we're basically in the stall of the bathroom and we can hear you talking about us We watch TV and we listen to songs and we watch comedy. We know you're all laughing at us We're here we hear you and it's heartbreaking and it is cruel and terrible generally The city is so glamorized and people want to chase either a dream in New York City or in LA There's very little offerings to go like oh, you're already at the place. That's got it all I mean, I guess it's what country is but I think it's very beautiful to celebrate what it means to be a country kid Do you care about any of those things as the song came to you guys?

100% do you get the feeling you're not hearing like hey, oh the whole world doesn't revolve around New York in LA believe it or not Yeah, I know we're just on that this morning The requisite for a song that like I want to pass on Scott or maybe want to push through like maybe this become an Ava brother song is just that it has to be real like has to be honest There has to be a sincerity the inspiration has to be there when that one came along It was just like oh, this is fun because it's honest and it's real It's like a list like a lot of country songs are and not to throw shade at the genre But there is a lot in the genre which is only demographic pointing towards like just mention the boots and the dirt road and the truck It feels a little pandering and the beer and that's it and I just want you to mention those things well if you heard There's an AI song they deployed AI to do a country and it did it perfect. I mean it's a line wrong It's like something about their butt. Oh, you've seen that hilarious. It's so good country music and fall into that Or there's a judgment against music that's country music that it's going to be that It's just gonna sort of fulfill that order so that it was real and based in truth and our actual experience felt really good And I think it is a good thing to celebrate the genre itself doesn't matter It's sincerity that matters and substance We're talking about New York City recently about playing in New York and being accepted there kids from the South going in New York and sort of Side-stepping any pressure to present something that wasn't authentic because that's what gets responded to in New York or anywhere else Yeah, yeah, I felt really good about just presenting our little story because that's so often what happens you dial in like even hyper specifically To something in your life and then you can't believe how many people have had the same experience or respond to it That's been really interesting But I mentioned like being on the bus and the cousin what a war zone school bus is oh, yeah It's just incredible 15 minute Lord of the flies experiment both ways right the sport bus drivers.

Oh, yeah I really am drawn to like the country boy can survive and like Tom T. Hall's country is the Charlie Daniel song with the big speaking part of the Beginning called Carolina. I really love a heartfelt song that celebrates. Well gives you pride It's damn good to love where you're from and when a great portion of the entertainment industry sort of ridicules that area that Background you do feel the need at times to push back against that a little bit and you see an entertainment They don't really understand it.

This other nice is always wrong You know, it's just not really fully understood There's a great elegance in itself and eloquence among the history there very ironically the greatest parallel genres are wrapping country Right the elites hate both they don't understand what the fuck's going on They can't acknowledge that there's poetry and genius right and both of those live on their own They don't really need a lot of pop horsepower and are sort of self-generating in there very Autobiographical more than any other genre those two right country kid by the way that song is a prime example of being at its best Because of collaboration I even calls got to talk to him about this at some point in the midst of the process That's one a trap for me is completion finishing a song like now. I can move on about that sort of subconsciously assessing my value through finished pieces We have a lot of good boisoms and wanting it to be observable as a finished thing I did a good job move on I have been guilty of short-changing an idea like a really good idea because I got it 80% of the way But I was like now I was like now I was like so when I brought this on Scott I thought it was a finish on here you go. You know here's a good one This will be fun I had kind of sketch it out and I'll do that too like I'll sketch songs out fully with drums and bass and everything Oh, you just play this but Scott he could tell this better I think there was some kind of nagging at him like yeah, it's good But there were pieces like the whole part that he sings he wrote the part that it stops and there's that holler He took it and put the time into really understanding the song recorded the whole thing by himself It was incredibly informative The song is a great example of it being as good as it can be because he went so far into a song that I thought was already done Is it fair to say that one of the cool aspects of you guys is a pair is you are quite different? And so you're very meticulous Seth in your very structured and then Scott brings the chaos and we put these things together and make A mark and now it's very multi-dimensional right for sure because I don't finish a lot of songs at all I had a hunch yeah Well, I'd love to hear country kid and I do urge everyone to go watch the video while you're setting up because the video is so good I don't know if you know this but we have Delta's birthday party every year nine years strong at the roller rink Did you go as a kid?

Yes live there middle school years every Friday Saturday girl girl so huge sports I was good at but I was a very good skater speed skate Yeah, it was very fast on the speed skating thing in fact They put fourth and fifth graders together in the race and I want it and then the fifth grader who thought he was gonna win And you want a free Coke and I was on my skates about to drink my free Coke. I was so excited I had won he skated Smashed it Really broke my heart that Coke was a trophy and he's drove by and smashed it well. I'm good. Pee-pee.

Oh, yeah Are you sure speaking of embarrassing fucking Danes in there? Oh my god? I guess you're well trained on the bus life. Yeah, that's a bit that's spacious speaking embarrassing moments in skating rink during the filming of that video I fell oh and I mean a major like standing there all of concours behind us We're about to do a take right before the election both skates out from under me up in the air Oh, I mean it was a hard fall tail everybody saw actually the crazy thing is everything hit at the exact same time Oh, it didn't hurt at all dissipated all the way.

It was unbelievable boy my pride the first year We had it we had two different I want cold broken roast me being one of them and my friend named in risk braces for three weeks after the first skating one Someone blowed a knee in another one and we have over the nine years figured out like okay We got everyone brings risk. Yeah, we wear gear now in the edict is start slow and slow down from there Thing as I reintroduced myself to snowboarding this past season by the end I had some really really hard falls I'm gonna go one more time. I was really demoralized like I were the butt pad the wrist Come on like a hockey goalie I'll tip for a rep, but everyone should really watch this video It's so wonderful and the stale joke and colorful and bright and fun and you guys are a bunch of different outfits in your rock stars and your monks And your superheroes real quick question that double deck or Gibson was that a rental or do you own that what's amazing about that guitar? We're referencing led Zeppelin I was like I gotta get a guitar that shows that I'm emulating doing page and I got on eBay and it was like $300 No, is it a Gibson?

That's a mock-up of like an epipheme. It's just the cheapest you can get it's called cozart. Okay, great They came with a hard shell case. I'm like how you can possibly wow by the way Do you pay just released a run of those with Gibson in their 50,000?

Scott are you gonna buy one? Maybe I'll talk about it tonight I'm gonna trade that crown What happens to start just a vocal? I was a country kid through and through I got my bare feet bit by wrecking crew a fire ants on a mission from total domination of the front yard Three years old on a ramshackle farm When in the pool in the crook on my arm brother and sister not me the no-harm picking on me I was a country kid with a strong foundation giving myself a whole second education in the back of the bus kids kissing and cussing all around me One more pick up in the trailer park hand-of-mouth living a breaking young heart beautiful girl with a hard hard-looking her eye Then I grew up and hit the city But the sky scrapers never give me I fly above them all the time straight through cloud nine flowing fast like the Mississippi I was a country kid shooting hoops in the dirt hot smokes in the pocket of a homemade shirt running laughs in the yard until my Little ex heard and then going again six feet of air off a plywood ramp That's well machine park where I would land all I could taste was blood all I could fill with the rocks in the palm of my hands I was a country kid throwing parties in the woods dragging my friends out of the neighborhoods jealous of the cable TV and their girls next door Sipping off into the dark of the night the shape of the body trace by moonlight interrupted by some other kid One to fight over her then I grew up and hit the city Sky scrapers never give me I fly above them all the time straight through cloud nine flowing fast like the Mississippi flowing fast like the Mississippi I'm with a job and a wife son of my own never getting timezones and Spetching the phones of the second half more often less requests and more saying thank you for every single town and every single acre in between Cold I grew up and hit the city But I'm in trouble. It's a never-gimme.

I'm live of it all the time straight from cloud nine flowing fast like the Mississippi But sky straight will never give it I fly above a modern-time straight from cloud nine flowing fast like the Mississippi God damn What a party First song broke our hearts and then this one got us up God made me nostalgia I don't think I noticed how much skateboard stuff was in that the first time I heard it God do I relate to that Oh my gosh, right on tramp come on the center blocks and the plywood We had our dad built him no plans or anything. He's what for sure we had two different ones country extreme sports When you're in Caveras County, North Carolina trying to come up with what's the angle? What's the radius of this thing your eyeball in it? Yes?

What was the trick because my brother and I so we made a quarter pipe and what you would do right? No one wants to hear this But let's talk about if you wanted a six foot transition You're gonna make a six foot tall ramp You would take a six foot piece of string and then you would Tack it to one end of the plywood and then you would run it in the circle and then by the time you got to that That'd be a perfect six foot transition and then you cut that plywood out What did your old man do literally the first one we built he free handed it and it was eight feet So two piece of plywood and never built a platform. So if you made it up and then it went up at an angle of Foot of her But then we built a mini ramp that actually we had some specs on we're able to okay, but still I mean come on again people don't really understand Pre-internet world unless you were gonna drive to some city and track down some skateboarders How the fuck were you gonna figure this out? You had Transworld and thrasher you could order the plans or you go to the local shop which we really have or dad would go Down the water and plans go for him.

I got spent 30 bucks on some plans. I applaud that well. He did a good job It helps with creativity. Yeah, sure.

How is he always great he tours and plays music he does he's a storyteller But now he's wonderful. They're both doing great in the boys love him. Yeah, yeah He's super generous and sweet, but he's out of time that he still can be sort of scary grandpa should sometimes Yeah, listen to us with when Papa's talking they're like Tell story from World War two or something or like a gator like swallowing somebody whole when the kids were like five and six That was always the push of riding flesh like he loves to talk about rotting flesh Yeah, it's trip to McDonald's you're gonna hear about right Magus and rotting flesh you go in there with your five-year-old it won't be 30 seconds before he's talking about shark eating somebody He has tons of stories He really does and I gotta say our dad is the most generous man and he gave us the right away for this all that dynamic It's very funny cuz always felt like going over to my dad having Isaac with me when he's really really young It's like you're always kind of playing defense, you know, what kind of concepts he about to get introduced to in everly through war war two likely Yeah, how is it always something so gory something so death-filled? But I did have a realization at some point what our dad is into his heroism And there's a lot of that in war to be new people and knew a lot of veterans Injustified heroism that was our last great war where we should have been there But it's a great thing though cuz he does have that old school person I don't have that of a young kid walking around now and be like come on over here Let me tell you about this general that feels like an older school kind of social dynamic Well, that's a toughen these boys up for the life ahead of them also when Isaac's five years old Isaac nine years old me We're riveted later on be like good God that was a heck of way to go That was stressful, but it's super interesting and it is part of the handing down of these great stories That's Isaac's sweet voice out here on cheap coffee, right?

No, that's Max He doesn't have that voice anymore. Oh, you're telling about infinity. Yeah, and now he's 13 bulking up and testing me Yeah, I just found out infinity does end right here right now On the end of infinity Stay tuned for more Last thing before you guys go tell me about this musical that you guys are involved with swept away It is a musical that's going to Broadway. This is like a 10 year journey for us So John Logan who is this brilliant writer?

He wrote the last samurai and Rango and gladiator He wrote a couple of the big Daniel Craig James Bond movies. He's just brilliant He's sort of a broadway blue blood incredible writer He was introduced to our music by a felony Matthew Masson who's a producer and a friend now But it was fan of our music he got into a record of ours called minion net that would put out 2003 and that record was like a Concept record loosely based on an actual event a whaling ship that went down off the coast of France in the late 1800s All of us reading this book about it at the time Scott introduced the book to his dad pass it to us initially sounds like a Dad a lot of death gore the custom of the seat is like a central theme cannibalism Oh perfect So the quick version of stories that we were seeing all of these parallels between these survivors and this dinghy and us in our little Van trying to go out and do this thing so this record minion that sort of formed a little bit around it That became the arc on set anyway So years later Matthew P introduces our music to John Logan and John starts writing a story based in that world So for like a year he just listened to our music only Wow made like this board on this wall like an FBI looking for a serial killer all the red lines all of our songs with all these notes And he wrote a story where our songs tell the story like they create the narrative Wow in their played within yeah within the musical there dialogue as well But it's basically a story that's set in late 1800s end of the whaling era these two brothers a captain and the first mate Wow what a great idea. It's incredible. It goes.

It goes really deep. It's a run in Berkeley And then a really great run in DC at the arena stage and now it's the big moment. It's going to Broadway Like this is where we always have a date November 18 somewhere around there. This will be the first time Kristen says you want to go New York and see a musical and be like yes, let's go you gotta go.

It's like 85 minutes no intermission Yeah, fucking her missions, but it's fantastic. This is a corny question But I'm sincere when I ask it did all of his research and Consuming and analyzing the music reveal anything to you guys like did he discover something about it that was news to you for me Some of the story with the brothers like we must have been reading up or things about it interviews or something He knew about our relationship turned out. He didn't so our title or so common It was so revealing how universal that is also listen to singers sing the songs versus those of us who project the songs We conceived the songs, but we're not trained singers singing the songs Really The real thing like I found myself trying to sing them that's funny to think about singing along your own song and not getting it The weird thing for me about first time really getting to see it was that the meanings of the songs being one of the authors I didn't imagine that they could mean anything else than the specific thing I was thinking about when I wrote the line Well, you think you're telling a very personal story and then it's revealed to you It's universal and that's really weird, but even in the universal telling there are elements of specificity that are mind-boggling to me How things got turned around and mean something new in this new narrative? All right, awesome.

Well, you guys I love you. It's such a joy to have you in here singing Everybody listen to the new album the Avit brothers and then of course go to Broadway in November and bump into us there Be well. Thanks. Thanks.

I Thought was the fact that I don't even care about back. I just want to give you a pants What is the aphorism slash saying slash? Maxim saw Ding ding ding connections. What is the one that you use the most because I just twisted this and I remembered righty Tidy lefty Lucy.

Oh, uh-huh. That's a good one. I use that Constant like that's the only way I know how to remember that right. Yeah, even I as a mechanic Yeah, we'll say that occasionally, but I'm more like I've memorized them the feeling of spinning my hand to the right Yeah, so I would kind of like I'll look at something.

I'll move my hand cuz I know which way is tight Okay, so it's not really righty tighty lacy for you actually no, but it's like it's more into a physicality Sure, but what's what what one do you use a lot to remember stuff? Yeah, that's uh, like do you remember? I'm a poor except after see yes, I use that a lot But again as you know, that's one of the least yes, I'm a realistic ones. There are I mean that's a rule But I swear it's only it's about 50% of the time before except after see or all the time Yeah, so for almost every time I'm using I'm eating together it seems to be an exception That's a good one though that that comes up a lot I before he except for after see and then when you use tires shoes Do you do bunny ears?

What is that saying? That's not it's saying? When the pop through the thing yeah going to the app I don't I'm grateful for my mom didn't try to teach me that cute shit I'm saying how you're fucking choose. Here's how you do it.

Use your brain, you know, and I like your stupid If you don't know that yeah, that was the theme I think and I appreciate it I know it's not how I'm raising my kids or people do it now, but there's some part of that There's some love there's some good about it. I'm going to be bit that's cool Yeah, you're like I can't even think of any and you you have so many homes, you know homes no the great lakes. Oh Even with that acronym can you tell us the great legs? Homes homes, okay, Ontario right that's the oh yep Michigan, you know the um like Erie nice Two more each don't tell me Rob if you know it shut up Rob like I would suspect you wouldn't get this one like not heartswell Yeah, that's it the great way we have a lake heartswell in Georgia.

That's a real lake. I just not a great late. Okay Why you get the ask the ask you could get I can't okay. It's the biggest of the great likes.

Oh, it's where the record the admin So it's Gerald happened late. It's very cold very clean outrageously clean. It's the best likes You have the best likes Trump says that no, but I was just thinking of it. Oh lakes sequoia Superior.

Oh, yeah, yeah, it's in the name too really it's the superior of all the lakes here on you wouldn't know that one Yeah, you could you do great though. You know Erie Do you know like Erie more because of Pennsylvania and I just know it from like reading books. That is what Cedar Point is on It's on like it overlooks like Erie. Wow.

Wow. Great place. Okay. Well, you'll come back to me because well homes I guess is nice.

Oh, this is and that's one from my home. Yeah, I think that's why you like I don't think you actually use it to remember if Matt and I made that one up Okay, okay, I am IP that's for the five stages of me tosses. Oh, oh, yeah, okay I pretty much forgot them now, but it's interface metaphase Protephase you forgot P. Yeah interface Protephase metaphase Tealophase I know the T is tealophase Past I made up it mad as an acronym so I can remember it for the test.

It's not gonna count But you'll come back to me. Oh, well if I think it won't pops into my mind. Don't use it use it Click it don't use it. You lose it.

Yeah, click it ticket click it ticket. Yeah, it's on the signs to make put your seat Hold on click it or ticket. Okay, I don't think you use that. I don't know every good boy deserves fudge.

Oh, that's a good one And then the other ones are face what that's just F A C E. Yeah, those are the notes In between okay, I didn't know that part they're called something. Oh god. Oh my closing home Well, how did you say Rob every good boy deserves?

Yeah, mine was every good boy does fine. Oh mine was deserves fudge made it's Midwestern In like you're on I'd a hell of a thirst just now. Yeah, I'm cutting out. No, it hurts my hair Quenches people know who likes me.

Oh, maybe people that want a quench alert thirst and they can go to sprouts right now and get Ted Seagers where today we went on sale every sprouts really yes 300 some stores exactly July 1 is when it started you go to sprouts and get Theodore Seagers Premium Regal brew. Did you bring any yeah, it's right there next to you? This one's ransed it probably is ransed. Yeah, I can't drink that I'll put a new tap on for you Everything in this Atticus ransed all the stuff in the for all the milk's ransed.

Yeah, the Ted Seagers is ransed The carpets ransed no the carpet looks great relative to how it has looked people should know that the clean schedule for this carpet once every two years I take it outside and clean it with a power washer and oxy clean and then it's like so sparkly for like a month And we can't believe it's the same rug and then it just accumulates like there's there's a terrible stain over there on the way to the bathroom It's too close to me. Yeah, it's actually so close to the bathroom. It's unsettling. Yeah, but it's coffee.

I'm sure and We're getting due for me to power washer, but my hands off to this rug because it was stands power washing as a cleaning method It's not like it gets pampered if people think that's gross I implore them to think about how often they wash their rugs. Mm-hmm I would say most people never do like they vacuum them. They don't they don't power wash or have them cleaned because it's a big To do but they probably don't have white rugs like we do. That's a mistake we make this is the rug from the child's bedroom I do yes, I'm Charlie Brown speaking of rugs and cleaning there was a leak in my apartment There was yeah, you're your apartment specifically are from above you I don't know what it lee my apartment ceiling leaked from above.

Yeah, so probably a leak above you in the party I think that they left their tub on or something. Yeah, and it leaked through and then it was I you know went out in the room and There's water everywhere and it's really bad like it was rose water. Yeah, where it was coming out Yes, and it's plaster right you have plaster walls and ceiling not drywall right? Yeah, it's from the 30s No, actually the ceiling.

I don't know. Okay. I think it fix that. Are they already fixed?

No, but I've asked for it to be fixed I mean the leak stopped. Oh, okay. That's good. Oh, this was like a week ago Oh, I forgot to watch on the floor.

We have wood floor. Yeah a lot and then the rug is a little stinky now Okay, and I'm gonna need to get that clean ding ding ding okay, maybe you could power wash it for if I came in your apartment with a Power washer and just gave it a good spray down I would like that well if anyone was worried I got the bus home safely the last time we spoke I was going to drive it home. Mm-hmm. I did I had a very fun stop in Mesquite, Nevada Yeah, very unique experience I rode my motorcycle to a casino to a steakhouse and I had a steak dinner and then when I left to come home It was dark out.

Yeah pitch black. Okay in a hundred degrees. Yep. We're in it I was a very surreal.

I don't know that I've ever been riding in a hundred degree temperature while it's blackout Are you feeling like I'm feeling I feel very childlike about this summer. Oh fun Like I feel like it's summer mode. Yeah as if I just got out of school, but I didn't it But I don't know why that's great. That's great.

That's a great feeling. I made a fruit salad Can I just add this is a real transition from how you felt like I'm on thugo like happiness happiness It's optimism excitement. Yeah enthusiasm about the future. Yeah, it's true.

Yeah That's because I went up on my medical always notice more feeling low, but sometimes we forget to notice more feeling good That's true. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, and you're feeling like a little kid little child like yeah It just feels like well you get in the trouble this summer No, I'm gonna be really good girl But I I just I don't know if it I do have to miss it and happy and excited and fruit salads But I also feel like I have to do anything right and I just isn't totally true. Yeah, but I feel it That's great.

That's all that matters because I'm gonna do nothing doing you feel that way, right? It's the reality is how you feel I'm gonna eat so much fruit this summer. Wow Decided you're transitioning from a breed only diet to a fruit or diet. Yeah, okay like a bat.

Here's a question We just interviewed someone a boy who is so kind and nice and optimistic and a clearly a good fucking boy Yeah, doing everything right he's going to church and he's dancing for recreation So here's here's my broad question Do you think it's easier for some people to be good than others because when I'm watching him? I'm scared for him like I get this actual scared feeling like how does one maintain this level of goodness and no mistakes and doing everything right and I I get suspicious it's gonna break and then it's gonna be really hard when it breaks because it's been trying so hard to be such a good boy But then I wonder are people just their baselines more rascally than not and is it easy for some people to be super good all the time? My opinion is yes, it's a spectrum of personality. Okay, so that's interesting you brought this up I've been thinking about it too on my wogs interesting.

Why's that in the air? I wonder I don't know why I just because I operate generally with the thought that Everyone is capable of anything Depending on their circumstances And I really believe that and I still do but I'm starting to wonder if it's if actually that's not true If some people are not they're not capable of I mean bad things. I'm not talking about good things I mean bad things like I think everyone's capable of probably a murder depending on the circumstance that they're in slash the circumstances they came from Yeah, um, but I think I just sort of might be saying that to protect myself or to make myself feel better Mm-hmm. Yeah, I was so locked into my perspective that I actually did murder just for people.

I think they knew that Yeah, I think that was pretty obvious. Yeah, yeah Um, I think I'm so locked into how I experience life that I'm watching the good boy that we just interviewed thinking It must just be a battle right like to stay that like swing dancing and ice skating and like really nice G stuff, right? And I'm like I feel like I'm battling all day long like go eat that thing and drink that stuff and do this like I just Yeah, I don't know. I know I know if I was born that way or my child did maybe that way or maybe I'll probably all of it It's the mix but it has led it has led to this person their disposition and the way they go through life would be very hard for you Yes, and um, and it's funny.

I'm like I actually am having compassion for the person I'm thinking must be so hard to maintain this level of like goodness and right and then they're gonna snap They're gonna snap and so I have assessed certain people over the years as like they're gonna snap and then they did Yeah, but certainly a lot of it. Yeah, I I think a lot of people are in circumstances that lead them to just things being easy also that person not perfect We don't know we talked to this person for 10 minutes Yeah, but just assume let's just assume they really are like they're saying their prayers and they think they're nursing They do all the best stuff. Yeah, it just seems like so much pressure to be perfect But again, this is what I'm kind of confronting it would be a lot of pressure for me Yeah, I would be there going like whoa man. We gotta oh, you know, whatever.

Yeah perfect is different than good Very different because no one is perfect and this person we spoke to isn't perfect and probably no And this is another sort of flaw in your thinking I think you think like weirdly you think it's sort of binary No, and it's not no it's a big gradient, but maybe some people are really up there I think trying to be good trying to like who you are. Yeah is a good effort It doesn't always mean you get there, but that's what these people are doing They're they're trying to live a life where they like who they are and yeah be the best version of themselves Even though I just said all this yeah last night I had I experienced an event emotional event that I won't get into but I did think I think everyone in the whole world is bad. Okay, that's um Different types of bad in different things are going on, but I think we're all bad See now you're joining kind of my point of view and me saying I'm a piece of shit So I think we're all bad and we're all good But we're all selfish little creatures trying to figure out how we can get the best situation for ourselves There's a gradient there though like okay. I guess I've just been back and forth on all this a lot Yeah, it's hard to nail you down on this you just said everyone's bad and then I said well Everyone's trying to make the best scenario for themselves possible go no Listen, I don't if we were just like we know then we'd be very arrogant.

We don't know it is all very gray and confusing I do think people land all over the place on this map, but it's like the map isn't just a vertical It's like horizontal and diagonal and it's a rorschach. It's a mess and people are a mess, but they're also good. Yes Yeah, we're all complicated. We're all good and we're all bad But do I think like some things that I've done that were for me bad like but that I did Other people would have no problem not doing yeah, I do even though like for me.

It was like no I had to do that right. I do think though life. I think this is universal and yeah, maybe I'm overestimating my similarities with other people But I do think your your nature is to be entirely selfish and then that's the friction of life It's like well, I want to grab all that pizza, but I'm not gonna do that because I'd be a bad family member and a bad community member Right you have to like you first your desire is like more for me the most for me Some people struggle with that for more intensely and for longer in life Yeah, and I think parts of that fade out quickly for people because you learn depending on your environment and how you're you've had to grow up Yeah, you can learn pretty quickly that actually doesn't get me what I want Well, right, but in a weird roundabout way you're still getting to where you want to get for yourself, right? You go that's actually the shortcuts the fastest way to the back of the line like I I could steal all that pizza for myself right now And then I never get invited to do another thing again and blah blah blah blah so it wouldn't serve me in the end So you do make a decision that is the remains selfish, but it's like a vol self But some people have to do that train of thought that you just said they have to do you don't think that some people have to do it at all No, really there are elements of my life where I have to talk it through And then there are elements that I definitely don't but I see other people having to do it right Yeah, I feel like I have to talk myself into being the version of the most thing.

I don't think it comes naturally to me I think I'm more like go steal everything I can yeah And get make sure I have everything I need well as long as you know that that's your nature But that it's important for you to then have the second step of it This is why having a family is a really wonderful Immersion therapy Because like it happened a few times just in the last few days where it's like within rapid succession three different people Yelled at me for stuff that I really had nothing to do with I mean really let me have it It was like one two three I got it for my wife and then I got one from Lincoln and then Delta was the last one to light me up In the theater like I just said yeah, like I was trying to solve something for and just like And I simply I didn't respond at all I just sat there because we're about to watch Iron Man the first one I convinced him to let's give that a shot I just didn't say anything right yeah, that's not me. I know I like to defend myself Stop trying to hurt me stop trying right I just took it and then um And then so then Delta turns back towards the screen and Lincoln puts her arm out and like pets my arm I was like oh that was lovely like if I would have defended myself aggressively I wouldn't have gotten this beautiful moment of compassion from Lincoln So that's a win I would have never seen coming and wouldn't have evaluated and then about 30 seconds after she let me have it Mom came say something to me and Delta goes Guys we have to be nicer to dad and I just did it the worst Um, he just kind of taking it and getting getting beat up and so mom don't don't ask him about that right now Like she it was so great as like this was an outcome that was unforeseeable to me for most of my life And it was so much better than me defending myself in any one of these given moments But like I got my own reward which is they ended up being really nice to me Yeah, and I took a moment to actually see me and I was like I kind of figured that out in life Yeah without these three people that I um I have to adjust how I am you know Yeah, that's why I always feel guilty on my parents because they just Take it off. I mean, I know you don't like this but I I do think that's part of being a parent It's like yeah, what is and that's why I do it. Um, it's not as my therapist says there's no what about me Yeah, exactly.

There's no what about me and that's like a rule I have for myself And it's hard because I like to say what about me. Yeah, and I've had to practice not saying what about me because I love them all so much You practice and it makes perfect. Well, no the reward is there It wasn't the one I was expecting sure but it was there and I wouldn't have ever discovered it Yeah, do you ever say practice makes perfect? That's an aphorism saw saying I Am tempted to say to my kids a lot because they want to do something they want to be great at it But they don't really want to practice that's again back to human nature.

It's gonna be great at stuff You don't really want to put in the time so I'm trying depends on the thing I actually think if you really do want it doesn't feel like practice, right? Because it's all towards the wind but like an instrument in particular is all practice, right? Yeah, and you're you don't get any of the rewards for a long long time That's why acting is a hack because it's fun the whole time you're practicing Yeah, but I think I think people who are truly musically inclined like it. They like it Yeah, I guess we have coming up learned how to make beats at age 11 like most people are not enjoying figuring it all out Yeah, that's how you know you're doing the thing you love speaking of cool stuff I talked about the Hermes podcast already, but now I'm on many other episodes of that show acquired Yes, and I'm obsessed with it I got to start listening because Eric was talking about that with Eric yesterday Yeah, and of course we were talking about your mutual obsession with Hermes Yeah, now we're now we moved on we listen to LBMH We listen to I listen there's an there's an episode on Taylor Swift that at first when I first started I thought because I've already listened to so much on her And there's a very very good podcast called every single album shout out on her and each album and whatever So when it started, I was like, I already know this stuff I don't even think I'm gonna get my job it but then it transitions into the business element Yeah, and it was so fascinating and then I listened to Amazon calm and then I listened to Walmart And I'm becoming such a business lady.

Yeah, it's interesting so much. I have not felt well again It's like summer mode feels fun and old and new and this feels new this feeling of oh, I'm learning I'm learning about something fun and interesting and I know so little about but I want to know more about it Yeah, I want to listen really though because I like business. Yeah, it's fascinating. So lean the on doc.

Okay, you have not watched it I've not watched it yet. Are you gonna watch it? Do you think I might I'm fine? It's pretty fascinating Yeah, and I want to not sound judgmental and I hope it sounds like just a great curiosity that came about while I was watching it First of all, I've never bought a selinge on CD what the music wasn't for me So I don't really even know how to evaluate her through watching the documentary It's pretty clear.

She's probably the best singer to ever live on She is as close to perfection is I think a human voice can get she can play her voice like a synthesizer She can go through every single note through every single scale There's no pause like they really show all the different things she could do with her voice Which were crazy and I did not know this and what the doc is about is she has a disease stiff person syndrome Never heard of it. Yeah, it only afflicts one in three million people Which means there's only 100 people in America with this disease Not even gonna knock on one for 100 Rather We don't know Well She has this disease. Yeah, she's one of 100 people in America and the symptom is she can't sing It doesn't make her blind doesn't make it so she can't walk it makes it so she can't sing Yeah, that's beyond an odds fascination. Yeah, it's more than one of three million It's also the person who's got a one in a billion voice.

Yeah, it's very fascinating. I think you need to say more It sounds like you're saying she definitely has it. Yeah, she's definitely experiencing it I was shocked in the doc. No one asked the question psychologically what might be going on You wonder how much of this is in the mind that the body has protected.

Yeah, the mind that the identity is so to me This doc is almost frame for frame the same doc is the running Coleman doc I'm obsessed with which is the identity is so So cemented in this voice and she says that yeah, that The notion of should I retire? Should I quit could I quit could I retire? Who am I without doing this thing? Also, there's no in the doc there's no downside to it She loves being slinging down the only heartbreak is she can't perform And that's curious to me because we've interviewed a lot of people who have achieved a lot of great things and most people it's a mixed bag I've never met anyone that it's just all gravy to be right Adele or selenion or these people it is a lot of it's hard And so I just I can't help but be fascinated with just the odds of this happening and how curious it is that the symptom is she can't sing Is everyone with stiff person syndrome have different well, there's only a hundred people with it so but is cramping okay There's foot cramping she has to be on a lot of volume which is interesting because volumes and anti anxiety drugs So we're acknowledging there's a psychological component, but we're not really acknowledging there's a psychological component right we go through the whole doc And we don't ever point out that it's pretty wild and just but is the voice all I mean I know it's really rare but in all the cases is the voice always affected or is it purr purse kind of like Limes disease has different iterations in each person is that how this is they don't really say that but in her she's moving about walking and doing everything I think her feet hurt she gets massages in the film But what is taking an enormous hit is her voice she sent when she's so brave she sings for us and it's gone And she goes there and she well That's a fascinating part of the doc.

I don't want to kind of people are gonna watch it I want to ruin the ending but there's also an interesting overlap with her trying Her hardest to record again and then a very strong episode. Yeah, I don't know but there is a new song because Liz was like song of the summer Oh really? Yeah, okay. I don't know about that part Oh, well, it's it's such a uniquely cruel weird thing to happen to someone that's so specific that has only happened to a hundred people Right and it has forced her to maybe retire and I just think it's really fascinating.

Yeah, it is fascinating It is fascinating. It's like if Picasso got a disease that only affected his right hand you'd go like well That's really interesting right because it's not even like if Picasso had ALS correct It's like very or he went blind in the eye. He thought you know, it's like it's it's just I mean, I look I am not saying I don't believe it. You're not saying that she has no question She's experiencing all that.

I'm not at all at all suggesting that she's faking this right She's not yeah, she has something yeah, but at what point you have something and you go wow I'm only I'm one of a hundred people that has this and it's forced me to make a decision I would have never been able to make myself and my curious about that. Well, that sounds like I'm blaming her in a weird way It doesn't if people really hear what we're saying I hope they can hear it But you know, it's funny is like when you have a lot of symptoms of something or something's going on often You know you go to the doctor and they're like well It's probably just stress and that's so annoying to hear and everyone like really hates that and everyone says like the medical systems bad because they just say You probably have stress but the truth is stress does cause so many problems and people's brain can push on long pass what their body can take I would say I would kind of um I'll run the exact same or saying like Kristen just got really really sick And we all live in the same house and kissing and doing all this stuff and it hits her uniquely hard And I will just say that Kristen's not the type of person who will say no, I need a break She will push really really really hard and I do think I think your body can say no We're gonna break whether you want to or not. Yeah, I do think that's true Like this happens a lot when you have like a crazy three weeks of work or something and you have to do it And then the day you go on vacation. Yeah, people really relate they go on vacation and they're just dog They're like cooked on the vacation.

Yeah, I don't know I just think it's I think there's a lot yet to be discovered about that process where the body takes over I just think it's really fascinating. Yeah, I like interesting it is. Okay, couple things This for Ava brothers wonderful. What did you guys say?

Yes couple other good boys great boys. Yeah, I mean fucking suss named ring coffee. Yeah, oh my god Yeah, he's not Weirdly we spent the beginning of this whole conversation Talking about the bus and then like why do you have it and to own it is to be fixing it and blah blah blah It's whole thing and then you had your ginkster. I don't actually think you jinxed it I think I think it's just the reality that is it is like that That's always you're just gonna something's wrong with it.

That's right It's like you can't be surprised nor was I to be honest and inconvenienced and annoyed but not my expectations were completely different than them But um, yeah, it's like owning an old car if you like old cars and old motorcycles Quite often when you go to the fucking donut shop to show it off. It doesn't start when you want to leave and go home That's just how it is. Yeah, yeah, everything's got a little everything's proportional. Okay.

Now you said That you thought it was kinkunta the lyric. I just be about it. I don't talk about it. Yeah, yes Um, I think it's money without me.

It's something I can't do Then it then it's um, it's only have two on my playlist by him then it's um The the lyric and money without me is you can talk about it I'm gonna be about it But I will say the song is confusing because I can't find it on Spotify So I don't know if it's like a I don't know Uh, then I think it's got to be all right Some of the songs have samples that can't be cleared for Spotify. It looks like two Right here right here Oh, I don't I don't talk about it. Okay, that's not what I looked up, but it's more probably in the song you referenced too Maybe he's using that often you can talk about it. I'm a be about it.

Oh, he's got a whole song dedicated to it Yeah, I'm confused about this song. Okay, but it's a confusing song. I just can't find it even though the premise is pretty clear I'm not gonna talk about it. I'm just gonna be about it.

Right. Well, that's kind of weird that you said the lyric wrong, but that it is a lyric What did I say you said what I just read I don't talk about it be about it. Yeah, what I say you said I'm a be about it Talk about yeah, okay It was a little wrong, but it seems closer to this other lyric that I guess is real anyway, okay I'm here Kendrick Lamar if you're listening. We'd love to talk to you We'd love for you to clear this up for us.

Yeah, come in here and explain what the fuck's going on Why that song's not on Spotify you love for him to come on me too, but he's in all kinds of dust up right now Yeah, he's a big Drake. Yeah, he's a big Drake doesn't we might get like fireball by Drake lovers Well, we think it's a he did we'll have Drake on as well counterpoint. Okay. Um, I looked up Asking a I mean, there's a lot of these asking a I to make a hit country song.

Mm-hmm. There's a lot so it's like Create a hit country song about beer for breakfast I like winning I gets confused those are my favorite ones like the one I had heard it started out really good and normal and then somehow it became about pooping your pants Yeah You know, what's interesting is like I was following this architecture feed on Instagram that I had no idea was all AI generated And they were the most gorgeous houses. I was like who could afford these houses and they're so beautiful And then one of the houses had a boat parked in front. Okay, and I'm looking at the boat and now I know about boats I don't know about the the limits of architecture, right?

And I'm like Where's the steering wheel in that boat and where is the engine located? Where's the motor and where's the steering wheel? And I realized oh AI generated this boat and forgot some pieces And that's what led me to then read more about the instagram page and come to find out it's all AI generated and they're not even hiding And I just didn't know I just saw it suggested. I'm like, oh, I love looking at these beautiful houses, right?

But it took something to my sphere of expertise. That's funny. They fuck up fingers, right? Yeah, that's a good clue.

Like count the fingers. Yeah Um, that's really it. That's everything for the a brother. Yeah.

It was fun. I like them. They're sweet very sweet I gotta see them at Red Rocks in a couple days. You are?

Yeah, we're driving and just happened to be going through Denver the night That's like one of my big bucket list goals to see them at Red Rock. I'm so jealous. Yes Well, first of all Red Rock is supposed to be the best place to see show. Yeah And then I love them so much and the spirit of red rock that I think is the spirit of red rock feels like such a synergistic symbiotic pairing.

Yeah, I just think anywhere. It's outside in a little like I think them at the Greek was great Oh, yeah, and look I saw him in a parking lot in Indianapolis and it's like very weird kind of fairground. Yeah, that was awesome Yeah, that's awesome everywhere. I mean, honestly, I mean, it's a weird thing to say But even if you're like only as six on them as their music as you hear it trust me the live show Even if you were lukewarm about their music, you gotta go see them play.

Yeah, also t