The Bitter Blood Murders

Hi, I'm Holly. And I'm Hailey. Welcome to Mountain Mysteries Tales from Appalachia. Hi.

Hello. Hello. Welcome back to my house. Yeah.

We only record here. I know. It's yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It's true. It's true. And you have a podcast room for us.

I know. And I think we've maybe used it three times. I know. It's wild.

I know. So I have a question. Okay. Okay.

When you were growing up, did you have a nickname that like your parents called you or your family and like has it stuck into adulthood? Yeah. Really? But like, there was a zucker up on a farm.

And we always had, we had like tons of guys who worked on the farm hands. And there was one who, from the time I was probably like two or three years old, always called me Hailey Bird. Oh. So I've just always instilled it or Hailey Kate.

Hmm. There's like, add something to the end of my name. Interesting. But no, I have a lot of people who call me hails.

Yeah. Now. But other than that, no. Interesting.

So the reason I ask this question is because I have noticed, so my son, I've always kind of called him Tinky. It's my nickname for him because, you know, for some reason it's like, oh, my little stinky boy. And then pretty soon I started calling him Tinky. And so, or Tink.

And I just called him that. Like, you're Tinky. And he's just always responded. Oh, I do have one.

Sorry. But it's okay. But lately I've been calling him. And I don't know why.

Booby. Booby. Why? I don't know.

It just comes out of my mouth and he's like, mom. And I'm like, yeah, booby. I don't know why. And I've got to stop calling him Booby.

I don't know why. It just came out of my mouth and I was like, I've got to stop calling him Booby. Oh my gosh. When I was growing up, my dad had two nicknames for me.

Well, three. One was Baby Lou. Okay. Don't know why.

That's fun. Yeah. My dad had weird nicknames for us. So Baby Lou and then the other was Lobster because when I was born, I was apparently as red as a lobster.

I'm also very fair and burned very easily. So. And lastly, Spider. Oh.

So on my eighth birthday, he had this nickname for me. And I don't know where he got little spider. Spider. I mean, I didn't have like legs or anything.

Right. Nothing crazy. You weren't like in the spiders. No, I had.

No. Exactly. No. So he had been saying, and it was a threat to me, but to him, I think he thought it was funny, that for my eighth birthday, he would get me a cake that had spiders on it.

And I was like, oh, very funny. He's got a skating rink. And he was so proud of himself because it was in recognition of him calling me a spider. There were spiders all over the cake.

You know, the ones that you put the rings in a spider. Yeah. I cried. Oh, no.

My birthday is not Halloween. I was so embarrassed because my friends were coming to the skating party and I bald and he felt so bad. So yeah, be careful what you call your kids. And so now I'm not going to call him booty anymore.

I think that's why I get a cake with breast. Oh, my God. Please. No.

Okay. What was your nickname? I forgot. So, but this has been like a recent thing like over the past, I don't know.

It's like college maybe. I remember calling me this in high school. My mother calls me Hootenanny. Really?

Yeah. I like that. And I don't know why. But she does.

We'll call me Hootenanny and I will respond to it now. She'll say it in a store. It will be somewhere. Or like, like, without a family or in the house and she'll say that and I will be like, huh?

Like I respond to it now. Like it's funny. She was, isn't that weird? Like, where do those come from?

How, how does it just come to pass that I'm a spider? My son's a booby. You're a Hootenanny. Like, I'm going to call you Hoot.

Hoot. Or, or I still like spicy ginger. That's a lot. I mean, that is your stripper name, but nonetheless I like it.

I'm glad. Well, do you want to talk about murder? Sure. All right.

That's what we're here for. Yeah. All right. So let's, we're going to talk about the bitter blood murders this week.

And this is in kind of the Winston-Salem-ish area of North Carolina. We particularly read shout out to my Winston-Salem piece. Yeah. And we're going to take it on back to 1982.

But first I want to say that I got a lot of my information from this article by Ella Brooke-Morgan who wrote for the, um, too close to home is the name of the article that she did for him. So it was very good. Um, would recommend, go read article. Ten out of ten.

Ten out of ten. So 1982, 30 year old Fritz Kleener was a doctor at his father's medical practice in Reed's Phil, North Carolina. He wore his white coat and treated patients regularly, like a doctor would in the office. He should.

Yep. Fritz attended the University of Mississippi and then attended Duke Medical School. Um, so he was working at the doctor's office while he was in medical school. So he was a med student at the time, but it was like working with his dad.

At the office. Um, so he would travel to Duke and stay in an apartment to attend like his lectures and go to classes and things like that. Um, but he went kind of back and forth. Um, so it sounds like a really nice family practice.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. Sounds great.

Dad's son. Dad's son. Father's son. Doing the doctoring.

Uh, well it turns out. That's weird. Doing the doctoring. Doing the doctoring.

Turns out. Good old Fritz. Um, he never actually graduated from the University of Mississippi. Hell.

That was real though. And he would travel there to work on making up stories for the lectures that he didn't actually did. Okay. So just going back for a quick second.

Um, did he even attend college at all? Like he did. Yes. He did actually attend the University of Mississippi, but he did indeed fail out of.

So he never graduated from here. Okay. Um, so he did, did fail. And dad knew this and dad.

No. No, no, no. He didn't know. He was a real bust of graduation.

Right. Yeah. He had to pay to say his name. I don't know.

Like did his dad just say, oh son, I'm so proud of you for your undergrad in biology. Yeah. But I won't be coming to your graduation. I don't know.

There are many weird things about it. Yeah. I don't know if he was just like, hey, I got my diploma, but yeah, none of it was real. I didn't go to med school.

Didn't even graduate. It was undergrad. So like dad's paying probably for this apartment. I guess.

Somebody is. Yeah. Somebody is paying for this one's apartment. So his dad thinks he's on the up and out.

Yeah. I don't need to see any like any license or anything. Right. No, you're good.

Maybe he was good. Oh my God. That's scary. Yeah.

Yeah. Forgeries. So Fritz was pretty notorious at the time for his avid prescriptions of vitamins, notably vitamin C, which he said was pretty much the cure all to all illnesses. Like if you were sick, you just needed to take vitamin C and you would be healed.

I get having vitamin C protects you. You know, it's kind of that immunity booster. I totally see that. But if you have cancer, vitamin C is not going to help you.

Right. Or an infection. It's probably not going to ward off, you know, like, mercy on green. Yeah.

Yeah. Maybe a good old antibiotic. Perhaps. Yeah.

I will tell the story because I know she's a little bit of a podcast, but a friend of mine who, you know what? I'm going to save the story for the opening of our next podcast. Oh, okay. It's a personal story.

I don't want to get off on a tangent here, but it's a great one. Okay. So we'll go back. Very excited now.

All right. I'll talk about her next time. Okay. Yep.

Yep. Okay. I'll have to tell her that it's going to be on the podcast and she'll die, but it'll be great. Anyway, so he's prescribing vitamin C for all the things.

And despite this, his office was wildly popular in the area. Like everybody went there. I'm sure. It was like, this is the best.

You're probably friendly. The bedside manner. Yeah. Little shots of vitamin C.

Yeah. It's great. Orange juice for everyone. So one young woman who happened to be a part of the family could not really ignore the acclaim and decided to visit the clinic.

So she was a family member. She was a family member. She was a first cousin of France. So Susie Newsom Lynch, who was first cousin, had fallen dangerously ill after a brief stay in Taiwan with her sons, John and James Lynch.

She was originally from Winston Salem and had just recently been divorced from the father of her children in Palm Lynch and decided to move to Taiwan to teach English. Like most people do. Or fresh start. Just on a whim.

I guess Tom didn't have any custody rights. It turns out he did. Oh, that's a bummer. Yeah.

So it gets crazy. It's the 80s with her wild side. Right. So she came back because she's sick and needs help.

Yeah. So Princess Puss and Susie was seven years older than him and was very wealthy. Okay. She had a lot of money.

Her parents, Florence and Bob Newsom really, they too had a lot of money and they really spoiled Susie when she was a child because she had a pretty significant heart movement. There was a lot of her situation going on so they really just kind of coddled and catered her. Whatever she asked. Right.

Susie attended Wake Forest University and she did actually go there. I was going to say that she did. She did. I was going to say that she actually met Tom.

Thomas Susie married quickly and had two children. Susie's personality though was described as combative by Tom and this created conflict between her, Tom's mother and his sister. Susie and Tom looking to distance themselves further from the tension so thinking like hey, let's, you know, we've got some family drama. going on here maybe just you and I like let's let's go work on ourselves so they moved to New Mexico where where Tom found a job as a dentist okay so he was a real dentist not a big team so after they moved neighbors began to notice signs of physical abuse to the couple's young boys because they were looking at more and more battered and bruised as each day passed I mean more and more when you see the first one you should probably do something yeah okay sure to don't think you're right so they were met though with excuses from Susie they fell down they fell their boys their rough housing they play rush I have a boy it is true right you know there's a lot of falling and being crazy and wild so I mean part of that is right I mean even as a you know myself as a young kid like I constantly probably from like my knees to the tops of my feet was constantly bruised yeah I would and my elbows like my arms like because I would just run around and I'm a clets and hit things and you know still do I still got random bruises that I find now where'd you come from oh that's what she's saying but we're gonna have to look into that significant other oh yeah yeah yeah may have to yeah he's quite well he was not nice to me in the dream I had me to me a dream recently I think we're both on the same we're feeling it I did call him after that I was like you were really mean to me in a dream and I'm upset with you I'm so sorry I recognize that he's not responsible for the dream version of him right but that he appeared in both of our dreams and was that same thing that's a bad sign that's a bad sign the red flag it's a whole big red flag and I'm gonna be meeting him soon I haven't met him yet but you know I'm coming to a family event so yeah I'm often and I'm kind of like the honorary third child so I'm right yeah the approval doesn't go well exactly out he's out dentist or not no no he teaches art you're out okay draw me something okay so anyway these kids are they're battered and bruised that's terrible that are like I'm sorry okay not good so they've got these bruises on them and Susie saying like you know we have excuses excuses yeah so one of Susie's former a queen pen says remembered one of the children telling her they were quote thrown across the room for talking back oh my gosh so it sounds like it's pretty extreme like very pretty extreme so why not well Susie apparently didn't really enjoy New Mexico she didn't really like it didn't like the desert so she returns to Winston Salem North Carolina to visit her and kind of stay with her sick grandfather and brings the kids with her so she's like hey we're gonna go stay with grandpa he's not doing well care for him I'm gonna take the kids peace out when she got to Winston Salem she tells Tom hey I want a divorce and starts like filing the paperwork now so that kind of happen okay all right so now we're back to the clinic she's coming to this clinic after her stint in Taiwan after the divorce so she's not a Taiwan she's taught English for a hot second it's like don't like this get sick comes back it's the family clinic so her frequent visit to the clinic to treat whatever this illness is you know got her reconnected with her cousin Fritz was using a Brits were younger they didn't see each other very often and she really believed that he was strange like they weren't they weren't close like they weren't friendly did she have any kind of sense that he would be a college baker I don't think so okay no he played everybody right yeah so but she they weren't like they weren't close they weren't friends when they were growing up yeah they didn't attend the family functions together if they did she just kind of waited him you know I have a degree from Harvard Law really yes wow it's one of my many that's impressive yeah so I'd say that so I'll be working at a law firm pretty soon you're welcome to come I can represent you I took a one-law class and I was cried it was scariest thing I did my life sounds like when I took a snap class yeah I also cried during dance no I took one law class when I was in grad school just because it was offered and I was like well that's a big what's called me a law like why would I not take it like that's wild so I went in and it was like well things look like credit for it's kind of like auditing the course to see if you wanted they were doing this new like pilot bridge program whatever to connect social work and law which was kind of cool yeah so I was part of the first group and we went so like this summer class of law and if you ever been to law school or ever been in a law class or watched really on TV it's very similar they cold call so based on like their reading because you have to read cases you have to like do this stuff they'll cold call you and say like they'll just pick a name off the roll and be like Robert Adams what is to do and they'll like recite part of the case and you have to like know what they're talking about that sounds and if you don't you're like ridiculed in front of every but it's awful it had to be one time I entered correctly and I thought it was gonna vomit that sounds horrible it's the only class I ever took I'm gonna cop to something yeah right here right now I don't get a lot of great well I'm neither did I I'm going to call you tomorrow it was here I don't even really what the question was I think I've locked out could you pull like a Reese Witherspoon in legally blonde it felt like that yeah it was the wildest thing it was like the talking about like case numbers and all the stuff and thank God I'd read whatever it was I were talking about and I answered the question again don't know what I said down the girl's name beside me I was like and they moved on and called somebody else I don't know what I just said but I just had an injury support from the case from the legally blonde yeah I was she had a perm it was the most stressful thing anyway we're not recommend law school all right so she's in the clinic she's in a clinic she's doing the things she's doing all the things yeah so I've seen her stinks he's a oddball yeah so they begin to spend you know more more time together because she's at the clinic you know having to get treatments or whatever and they're both adults now and so you know she's kind of seeing him in a new light and she's like oh he's not that bad you know could be a good you know good person and so her old opinion kind of slips away only to be replaced with this unwavering adoration for her cousin she's like this is he's a great guy okay so let's take it from that approach okay but yeah okay he's not the weird like he's actually a good man right because it's okay so okay it's like telling her all these stories about things of course are all fabricated as she doesn't know that given her vitamin C vitamin C telling her about his stents in Vietnam which okay no one missions with the CIA because he was apparently part of the CIA and talk about it over some more than just right and has very real preparation for the end of the world so he's like a prepper oh god yeah he would mysteriously disappear for long periods of time into the woods and no one erasure sign really had any clue about what he might be doing so he was like out there like prepping for like the apocalypse or something as well party in the CIA crazy wow so Susie spending time with Fritz kind of drove a wedge between her and her family see that including her mother who Susie had described as being you know very close to when she was younger and it was then that she began an incestuous relationship with her first cousin in secret okay so we think the guy's weird yeah then we're like no he's a good guy let's have intercourse yeah that is with your first cousin oh yeah I know we're in the south yeah but still that's not that's not so we've moved past that all of my cousins my first cousins are anywhere from 10 to 15 years younger than I am oh wow yes my parents had kids yeah but they're siblings so I can't even imagine their diapers like I could not even imagine that that is I mean it's gross like it's so gross I'm close to my cousins but we were raised like siblings yeah like I know your cousins yeah like where we've gone on like family vacation yeah since we were kid like little kids yeah like we're all just very no romantic inkling no no it's like we were pretty much raised as like siblings so he's using his stories to kind of win her over as yeah and she's like take me on yours yeah and she's apparently not well to be like are we talking mentally I don't think you could be mentally well and have a relationship with your first cousin I don't think so either that kind of knocked out of mentally well like you know what we share some DNA let's do it anyway so they're um they're in this relationship now yeah they're doing a bit of divinity yep Fritz is now getting to know John and James so she's yeah yeah so she's there he's gonna know them well I'm gonna be your second cousin daddy yeah great yeah he's taking them on camping trips where they're told you know some of Fritz's lies a wartime hero and all this stuff and when John and James traveled to visit their father Tom in New Mexico he and his new wife are horrified at the obvious signs of neglect shown on the boys Tom recalled that the boys were when they would come visit their pale they had these bruises on them and were insistent on taking bags of vitamins their mother had sent with them and you know he is very concerned about their treatment in North Carolina and tells the kids like you know hey if your mom asks them and tell her you took the vitamins but I'm in the runway yeah so he wouldn't let them take anything like any pills or anything that was done so he just chucks them away so meanwhile Fritz continues to lie and convinced Susie that her ex-husband was up to no good and was part of a drug ring so he's like trying to get her to because he's jealous right he's trying to get her to like turn on him and I don't know what he wants to be the only right so dad cousin yeah yep so Susie who for all his purposes used to be this very intelligent and sharp young woman believed everything that Fritz was saying and fought for custody of John and James in the meantime Fritz was plotting and with his friends at a little gun shop they purchase the necessary weapons to commit some pretty wild crimes good God so we purchase guns this is gone it's a wild ride it's yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean but once you start you know sexing it up with your family right it's really where do you go from that well they're going into murder oh god yeah in 1984 that's a great year Tom's and your mother and sister were found dead in Kentucky both have been shot by a high-powered rifle at close range the year after that there was another murder in Winston-Salem the brutal shooting of Bob and had a new son who are Susie's father and grandmother the most gruesome scene officers found was when they found Susie's mother deceased in a pool of blood appearing to have been stabbed several times so there's this like year long and the first murder they like they couldn't figure out like what had happened maybe wrong place wrong time and this is Tom's mom and sister so they're like who on earth and so they don't have any leads like right totally cold and then as these other ones are happening they're like okay we kind of got a common denominator here yes in Susie yeah so then I get into this kind of crazy like sidebar here so this guy Ian Perkins who was Fritz's very naive and impressionable neighbor was questioned by the police about you know hey do you think he could have done this did he do this what did you see what did you hear what do you know that kind of thing he tells police that he's responsible for the Winston-Salem murders he's like it was me I did it and police are like very confused so comes out apparently he had been told by Fritz that he would be admitted to the CIA if he passed the first test and his test was to admit to this crime even though he had nothing to do with it um was this man you know a little simple mind I think so okay he's very naive okay very okay impressionable okay so Fritz has spent time like convincing this guy like hey you've got to confess to this as your test Fritz really did miss out on his calling to beat in CIA well sounds like you had some brainwashing yeah I mean very much so um so by this point police are connecting the dots here yeah figuring it out and this reality of Fritz's involvement in all these murders are dawning on and like okay this guy is involved so officers start their search for him having connected enough evidence to prove that he was a perpetrator of the Kentucky killings where Fritz Susie and their kids packed Fritz's Chevrolet blazer for what looked like a camping trip um police were continuing their search waiting for this opportunity so it's a pounce well I guess and they also made the connection I assume it was probably the same gun used right yeah so they've made all these connections so the family now is they're like are they on the lamb or they're just they're packing for a camping trip okay that's what we're gonna call it our own race yes so the police are like okay we'll just follow them so they follow the blazer and then it turns into they realize what's happening it turns into this high speed chase that's not an on NC 150 and Summerfield North Carolina um officer Tommy Dennis um had really struggled to keep up with this erratic driving and when he finally got his cruiser close enough to the window of the blazer he was like eye to eye with Fritz and he's like what's going on and he says Fritz had this manic smile on his face and the barrel of an oozy is it oozy machine gun yeah with and that was the last thing this officer remembers before he was shot oh my god yeah and the kids are in the car kids are in the car oh so this officer is pulling up is eye to eye he has this so he's like eye to eye with the guy has this manic smile on his face and just fires this guy obviously officer lives like yeah he's telling the story but can you imagine so he I just want you to know that he has been frustrated for me I feel like I'm the officer and I'm driving along and I'm looking at this really maneuverable look on her face it's insane so this um this you know that base the stakes a little bit yeah and you have shot an officer right and they also are now aware that john and james are in the back seat the two kids are in the back seat so they can't you know take a mental right and stuzy's in the front seat so and at this point they're thinking that Fritz is done all of this as soon as nothing to do with it and they think maybe she's being kidnapped yes okay so Fritz begins to slow down and the officers are thinking like okay maybe he's about to like pull over jump out of the car run surrender something's about to happen here like maybe he's realized like hey the kids are in the car what am i doing right kind of thing um all that kind of goes took a put when there's a flash of heat in light as the blazer explodes explodes people the pin oh my god it explodes um with debris flying so the chaos of these next few moments are insane and they're you know police are like getting out trying to figure out like did anybody survive this like where like do we need medical attention like what's going on so Fritz's body flew out of the blazer and landed in a ditch and he's alive like he is living like he is i mean he's very injured not doing well but he is alive when they get there and they begin like and they're knowing like he's probably gonna die here like he's not gonna live very long so they're like trying to get information out of him like what you know what happened was you do that this what's going on and he never said anything he just like blood out and died but he was alive in the ditch for a minute and they got there and they were like tell us you know what he just like jumped on blood inside so Susie maybe he needed some vitamin c maybe he did yeah that would help yeah it cures all it does it does so he didn't say anything um as they're looking at the scene and investigating everything obviously Susie and both the boys died in exclusion yeah um along with which i am mad about the two dogs they put the two family dogs in the car with them i am more concerned about the children but i like where you're not that concerned about the children yes um i don't know what you're gonna do it why did you bring the kids in or the kids i i think we should start first with kids and then that's really unfortunate about the dogs but the children but the children okay fine we'll do that oh my god so if there is any like thought behind this um so Susie had been sitting on the bomb the bomb was under the seat like of Susie's seat oh great um that was purposely detonated by Fritz so if you're thinking that Susie is innocent in all this she's not so before the bomb was detonated Susie had poisoned john james and the dogs and shot them before the thing blew up why what the hell's wrong with her so it's very possible that they were the kids and the animals were already dead in the vehicle before it blew up like they're not sure if this was like happened like very quickly but i would think they were already deceased before we were even on this journey to detonation how a mother can kill her own children yeah um it's great she had no regard for them more of the dogs but mostly her children yes let's focus on the child oh my gosh yep so this was just all along the plan like they're on to us they know we're not going to do any time we're going to take everybody out yeah we're going to take everybody out oh my god yeah that poor dad that poor poor dad yeah and um the house that they lived in is still standing like it's abandoned and reads them okay yeah so sometimes i go to Winston's A-Lon workwise no i'll have to check it out it's on valley road off of Reynolds Road on a hill Reynolds or rinnalda rinnalda sorry rinnalda road it's off of rinnalda road it sits on a hill um and it's pretty vacant that's what as of this article that was written in 2021 it's a vacant house tell me this again where it is it is um on valley road valley off of rinnalda road so i guess valley road splits off of rinnalda somewhere in reed still yeah like near Winston's A-Lon or Winston's A-Lon i think it's Winston's A-Lon yeah the doctor's office doesn't read so okay because i was like rinnalda's in Winston i know that for sure yeah i know where this is you do you driven by it um probably that's crazy okay uh so i'm gonna have to see if we can get the like actual address i thought i'm sure it's out there i mean i'm not gonna like put it out here but i'm sure if you wanted to look at that you probably find it i wrote it down but yeah so i'm gonna take pictures and this is a crazy story and i really like i never heard of this story before and i looked it up because i thought like oh my this is like a crazy movie or something 100 but it's not it needs to be like i mean it is a movie like they've made a movie and they've written a book and they've got stuff about this case but this is like a real case what's the movie called um i think the i don't know if it's a movie or a book okay but the book is called i think it's called The Bitter Blood because i call this The Bitter Blood murders let me see if i can find a new book right if this was a movie of the week for t.v i probably saw it yeah mmm yeah bitter blood um a bitter blood a true story of southern family pride madness and multiple murder and it's a non-fiction crime tragedy written by american author jerry something jerry blood so so it is a book okay yeah um and i think it's been made into yes there was a tv movie had to be yep 1994 tv movie um it was called In the Best of Families Marriage Pride and Madness who was in it um let's see it was directed by jeff bellekner um ryan cbs i know i saw it it was also adapted for an episode of southern fried homicide on investigation discovery and it was on snapped oh in 2015 but i'll see who played in it because they look familiar let's see here i want the plot i want the people um kelly mcgilles uh-huh hary hamlin and keith caradine yep um i know i saw it yeah because i mean right um if you're as old as i am first of all i'm sorry but second of all uh you probably remember those like many series and movies that were on like sunday nights at like eight or nine yeah i know i saw it yeah and i'm sure this one was a um i think it's like a two-parter or many series then yeah many series yeah well at least on january 16th and january 18th in 1994 on cbs yep i know i saw it then yeah yeah and the best of families is what it's called best of families oh i bet it's on tubi i bet so i love tubi three so that is the better blood murders oh my gosh daily yeah you brought it i mean you know fake you know medical degree pretended to be in the cia even military like lots of stories uh doing the hibity-dibity with your cousin um you know taking on the role of of cousin daddy and then trying to wipe out the family yeah and then wiping out every night and wiping out the family wow crazy you have brought so much i know to the table i know next week what i could do i have to to challenge this is amazing yeah what can we what can we bring next week can we do next week yeah i i don't know but i will tell you the next time i'm in Winston-Salem i'm going to find that house i'm going to take pictures of it and send them to you hopefully nobody lives there now because they're gonna be very concerned well yeah yeah makes sense but right yeah yeah wow well thank you for bringing that to us all right if you want to email haley you can do so directly at mountain mysteries dot apple action at gmail dot com you can find us on instagram at mountain mysteries dot apple atcha you can find us on facebook at mountain mysteries tales from apple atcha and for a good old time patreon patreon dot com slash mountain mysteries it's where you get that bonus content holly and haley after dark and our bloopers now that we ever make mistakes right ever never never never not that's what perfect and fun fact we're not cousins we're not not really in the slightest if you are those shippers of us don't worry we're not really not related so have at it just for your information just so you know not really well i mean we haven't really gone deep into names and stuff so you never know at least you know there's six degrees of separation there true so there's a high likelihood that yeah we could be related we could be yeah but we're probably not probably not probably not no all right gotta shout out this week for let's do Kodak Tennessee oh nice yeah well thank you guys for listening we'll see you next week bye bye