The Chapter Between the Revolution and the Constitution

We tend to jump straight from the Revolution to the Constitutional Convention — from a young James Madison to the Father of the Constitution. But the years in between are where the promises of independence collided with the hard work of governing.Dr. Frank Cogliano, professor of American history at the University of Edinburgh and author of A Revolutionary Friendship: Washington, Jefferson, and the American Republic, joins Katie in the studio to walk through that chapter. They start with the question of who the Revolution actually included — enslaved people, Native nations, women, common people, loyalists — and what independence meant to each. Then they follow Madison home to Montpelier: the Orange County Committee of Safety, the Virginia Convention of 1776, Jefferson's Governor's Council, and a Congress whose failures taught him exactly what needed fixing.Along the way, Cogliano makes the case that Madison's willingness to change his mind is a strength, not hypocrisy. He explains why the Madison–Washington partnership may be more interesting than the famous Madison–Jefferson friendship. And he leaves us with a challenge for the semiquincentennial year: live up to the words, and relearn how to disagree without hating each other.