The Character of Authority in Shakespeare’s “Julius Caesar” (Part 6)

Wes & Erin continue their discussion of Shakespeare’s “Julius Caesar,” and its sustained reflection on how political power is constructed, located, and legitimated. Upcoming Episodes: “Amadeus,” Susan Sontag’s “On Photography.” Pre-order Erin’s forthcoming book “Avail” here: http://subtextpodcast.com/avail For bonus content, become a paid subscriber at Patreon or directly on the Apple Podcasts app. Patreon subscribers also get early access to ad-free regular episodes. This podcast is part of the Airwave Media podcast network. Visit AirwaveMedia.com to listen and subscribe to other Airwave shows like Good Job, Brain and Big Picture Science. Email [email protected] to enquire about advertising on the podcast. Follow: Twitter | Facebook | Website Transcript 0:19 Erin: or patreon.com/subtextpodcast. 0:32 Wes: Hey, welcome to part six of our discussion of Shakespeare's Julius Caesar. We just got done sort of. Well, almost. We're pretty much there with. Yeah, we got done with the funeral speeches. Anything more we want to say about that before we get to the killing of Cinna? 0:49 Erin: Just that if they've made it this far, I think I'm delighted to announce that I have a will here that will bequeath some public gardens to all the listeners who are still with us in part just to prove what a swell pair we are. 1:01 Wes: Right. So he does trot out the will at the end and so that seals the deal. And then the crowd goes off to riot, basically. Including. Put fire to the 75 drachmas. 1:13 Erin: That's it. Oh, yeah. How much does drachma is this? Like everybody gets in this class action suit? Everybody gets 43 cents. 1:21 Wes: Speaking of which, did I mention on one of these, the Ides of March coin by Brutus? I probably did. Do you remember that? 1:28 Erin: No. 1:28 Wes: Do you know that Brutus issued a coin commemorating the Ides of March? You're kidding. And there's quite a few of them in gold and silver, and I've seen them in at least one museum. Like at the bottom on one side of the coin there's a hat. There's like a freedom cap kind of thing with two daggers, a dagger on each side, and at the bottom it says EID MAR, abbreviated. And then you turn it over and I think it's a portrait of Brutus. It's either him or his ancestor Brutus, I forget which. But yeah. How crazy is that? 1:59 Erin: This is how you end up in Satan's mouth in Dante. 2:05 Wes: And he issued that coinage to pay his troops. There's a long period where they had to go up. Him and Cassius had to go out and conquer half the world, basically, to raise those armies. They had to go town by town all over the world that Rome had conquered and either demand their loyalty or fight them and defeat them. 2:22 Erin: Not that they wanted to, mind you, 2:24 Wes: acquire an army along the way. 2:26 Erin: Just humble Romans, right? 2:28 Wes: Yeah. So Brutus had actually had a job in the mint, basically. And so I don't know if that helped him with figuring out what coin he was going to mint with that to pay his troops, but that's pretty. It's just so nuts. 2:40 Erin: That's really nuts. 2:41 Wes: To commemorate the murder of someone who's basically a friend. Now, they had had their ups and downs of course, like Pompey killed Brutus father. I don't know if you know that. But for various. For complicated reasons, Brutus ended up on the side of Pompey during that civil war, but then ultimately switched to Caesar. And they traveled together, they. For extended periods, they traveled together on various quests. So it's a bit nuts. And there had been decades of this kind of crazy war stuff going on. It's like the. Whatever the Republic was to Brutus, it had been chaos with all this fighting and infighting for decades. 3:27 Erin: I think that did seem to be the impression that I got too, is just in reviewing this particular moment in history. The Republic was only ever. It was like the idea of the 1950s to a certain wing of the Republican Party. This version of events never existed. The glory of the Republic was just a fantasy somehow. 3:48 Wes: I mean, the murder of Caesar concealed the fate of the Republic. Right. That was the end. You know, the irony here is. Yeah. That Brutus act, instead of preserving the Republic, just made sure that that was the very end. It set in motion a kind of final reckoning, a final civil war that I think could only end with an emperor. Emperor. Sorry, was that responsive to what you were saying? 4:12 Erin: Yes. 4:15 Wes: All right, all right. So this scene with act three, scene three with Cinna, where he's murdered for his name, also in Plutarch, I think. Now I'm beginning to question everything that I think is in Plutarch. So listeners will have to take everything with a grain of salt. So I could be hallucinating it, but I'm pretty sure this is in Plutarch as well. In any case. Yeah, very important that the plebeians are indiscriminate in their violence. And then we get he's, I'm Cinna the poet. I'm Cinna the poet. Tear him for his bad verses. Tear him for his bad verses. There seems to be always some kind of self deprecating reference towards bad poets in Shakespeare's plays. The idea in Nan, you know, I'm not Cinna the conspirator. It's no matter his name, Cinna pluck but his name out of his heart and turn him going. So this is almost a variation on killing Caesar's spirit. And it's too bad if we have to kill the body as well. And then on some of these other things that we've talked about with the social construction of power, where what's in a name? Right? And then Caesar's name becoming equivalent to the name King. But what's in a Role, Right. I say you're a consul, and therefore you have such and such powers. Well, it's spooky. And I was trying to associate that in our earlier discussions with the concept of superstition. I don't usually stand on ceremony, where ceremony is ambiguous, between forms of politeness and then the kind of forms that go into the making of a state, the ceremonies of a functioning government, and then between the productions of oracles, superstition. There's something spooky and superstitious about the way that power works and the way that hierarchy works. And here it's kind of reduced to its kind of absurd premise, which is that if you have a certain name, you could be just guilty by virtue of that, if your name is the same as that of the conspirator. So it's almost like acting on a form of superstition. 6:31 Erin: I mean, what's so complicated about this, as you're already suggesting, right, is that this is a sort of recapitulation of Caesar's murder. Right. So this crowd, inflamed with rage over the murder of Caesar, is now enacting something similar to what the conspirators have just done. And we also have that proleptic idea of what Caesar's name becomes in history being applied here with the name of a conspirator. And just a coincidence coming to haunt you, it seems to me, because it has elements of both sides kind of attached to it to imply something about the idea of art being apolitical, being perhaps the most dangerous position of all. Or one might get attacked for coincidence. And depending on what use the crowd wants to give to one's art, they'll just take it and run with it, and they'll murder the work in the process or something. 7:30 Wes: Yeah. There's actually an extra layer of irony which I really love, which is that tear him for his bad verses. Poets are guilty of the same sort of identification that the crowd is making here. Juliet is the sun. Right. That's the substance of metaphor, which is to make these identifications. Cinna. He dies by a variation of his own identifications. And those identifications can be suggestive. And it's the sort of things that are happening in Antony Speech and that can manipulate people into doing things. And the general role of art in culture, the ways in which art can influence people, as you point out, I think you were hinting at that it can be a potentially pernicious, dangerous force within society. Plato wanted to kick the poets out of the republic. Right. Or at least to control what they were saying because they might represent the gods as being bad people, which they were. They were bad people. He wanted a better representation of the gods so that they wouldn't corrupt people. So there's something dangerous, I think, about metaphor, and we've talked about this in our Shakespeare episode, the ways in which reasoning can be grounded in metaphor and bad reasoning especially can be grounded in metaphor because metaphors, in a way, are treated almost like little scientific models. And you can extend the metaphor and if you don't test it against reality, you can come to all sorts of absurd conclusions. So, yeah, I think there are many ways in which metaphor is a dangerous tool. Antony has just illustrated that, that this scene beautifully captures all of that. 9:13 Erin: It puts me in mind, of course, of Brutus saying, I have the same dagger for myself when it shall please my country to need my death. You know, Shakespeare's almost doing that through Cinna. He's giving the poet the same dagger. Right. And in such a way as to. It's lucky perhaps that Shakespeare has Plutarch to keep referring back to because Brutus is saying some pretty dangerous things, you know, to maybe be saying in the Globe in front of Elizabeth and. Right. All of this is also kind of covering one's bases to turn the dagger on himself and to either inflame the dramatic moment with the scene which in, for instance, in Orson Welles Mercury Theater adaptation of Caesar apparently like, brought the house down. But then again, this is in 37. Welles was using a lot of contemporary political imagery, making Brutus a sort of anti fascist. You know, Caesar was identified with Mussolini and Hitler. Rather than being killed by a mob, I think he has Cinna killed by the secret police. 10:19 Wes: Oh, yeah, that changes it. 10:21 Erin: Right. But it brought the house down in this riotous. You know, it was considered the high point of the play. In fact, there's a very famous. I think it's sort of famous. I like Jacob Landau. I don't know how well known he is at this point. Probably not very well known. But there were, you know, artworks depicting this moment in the Welles adaptation, depending on how you want to play it. It's almost a moment of comic relief or absurdity after everything. Right. Or. 10:47 Wes: I agree, yeah, yeah. 10:49 Erin: Or in the Welles adaptation, a surprising emotional high point which seems to even. Seems to have an even greater reaction than the actual meat and potatoes of this play. You know, the two speeches. 11:02 Wes: To me, it's doing at least two different things at once, which is. It's consolidating something that's really important thematically around the name. The name, Power and the name. Yeah. Caesar. Caesar's king. Yeah. Cinna versus Cinna. And then the comments on, well, the little meta commentary on bad poetry. My impression from Shakespeare, from what I've read almost every play at this point multiple times, is that there's a kind of rough and tumble relationship between audience and players and playwright. And he was acting often, I guess, maybe early on he just went. Not that we actually know, but he was probably concentrating on playwriting and letting other people do the acting. But I imagine, right, the grunts in the audience, there's always the question, are you enjoying yourselves? No, well, sorry, yeah, I'm not that great. And some of this is explicitly said, especially when there's people giving prologues or epilogues like the Tempest. I hope you've had a good time, if not, sorry about that. So, yeah, many references, I think, to. To bad poets and bad verses throughout his play, with the implication being that he might be one of those people. He might be subjecting his audience to his bad verses and they might want to tear him to pieces. Right. So it calls out this, I think, real tension in art between artist and audience, because for some reason, you know how when you go to improv and it's bad and it's just like so excruciating with stand up comedy, it's just like you almost feel like it's happening to you, like some kind of empathetic connection. But I think it can arouse a certain amount of hostility in an audience, which is strange. Right. If you go to see a bad play, you want to throw tomatoes, you want to get violent, but it should be pretty low stakes. I'm just going to try to pass some time and if it's not great, okay, it's not that great. But do you have to kill the actors? Well, but anyway, yeah, I don't know 13:20 Erin: if this is too much of a stretch, but when I think of that, when I think of tomatoes, you know, I think of the crowd at La Scala, for instance. And one of the things that these incredibly emotional and often violent crowds are responding to is a poor performance of an opera that they know well. So there's a sort of ideal in the ether of the performance, as it should be, or a singer who originated the role, who's the best, and you're not measuring up to that ideal, betraying the text somehow, the perfection contained within the material. And so I hesitated to say that because, well, that's not the case here, but it is because he's dramatizing A story everybody knows. So there's a danger, right, of this isn't, say, an original play. It is. And it is what to add in, what to take out. You know, in a way he's doing something like what a. What a great opera singer would do, which is an interpretation of pre existing material. And the extent to which he interprets it well or doesn't is going to be what he sort of lives or dies by in this, in this. Most famous of any of his stories that he treats in any of his plays. Right. This is the most famous, I mean, I think of his Harold Bloom, who said, you know, that Caesar is the most famous person that Shakespeare will ever treat in his, in his plays. I have the inherent feeling that there's something more to be said about that. But one of the things that tear him for his bad verses makes me think of is also in Brutus's speech a little earlier in the speech when he says, which I don't think we addressed directly, as he was valiant, I honor him, but as he was ambitious, I slew him. There is tears for his love, joy for his fortune, honor for his valor and death for his ambition. 15:09 Wes: Yeah, I don't know how we missed that. 15:11 Erin: Yeah, Right. So he important. Yes. Doling out justice in accordance to his characteristics. Right. You're not, you're not a person. You're a collection of characteristics which we have to treat on an individual basis. That also reminds me of this, it reminds me of, you know, tear him for his bad verses or the coincidence incidents of having the same name. And therefore you're not really a person. You're just someone with a collection of characteristics, including a name which may or may not serve you well. And maybe something like, you know, what a playwright has to deal with. Well, this part was really good, but then this part was bad. And so we want to throw tomatoes here, but we want to, we want to clap here. He should have taken out this part from Plutarch or added in this part, you know, I, I just. This idea that Brutus is picking and choosing what to celebrate and what to. To slay. Brutus is the severest theater critic of all. 16:00 Wes: You know, he, he thrice refused the crown and he did a bad acting job. 16:04 Erin: Or did he? Yeah, right. I mean, or we're also getting. Right, we're getting a constant critical interpretation too, is another thing which we're hearing from people. We're not actually seeing what we're, what we're really seeing and what we're being told, I think are constantly Being played with here, like the will, Caesar refusing the crown. We're getting it filtered through critics. Through criticism. We don't know if Caesar has. I mean, if Cinna has bad verses. So, you know. But we're getting an instant. Probably. Right. But we're getting an instant sort of critical apparatus around him. 16:38 Wes: Shakespeare's not interested in crafting original plots, which is. It's kind of why I'm not interested in plot either, when, you know. 16:47 Erin: Same. 16:49 Wes: Yeah. In this context, if it's a Netflix series, it better have a good plot. The context where I'm interested in the poetry of it and character and all that stuff. His plots are often quite loose. And then, like with King Lear, he just took someone else's play and rewrote it, basically. 17:08 Erin: Yes. 17:09 Wes: And with all this other stuff, he's faithfully. Yeah. He's adapting historical accounts and the magic is not in the plot. 17:17 Erin: Well, as I'm sure we've said before, in the Tudor era, these were just things that people were not interested in, and they weren't interested in having some sort of Christopher Nolan style, you know, with people who have never and will never live, you know, saying absolutely absurd things. But there's this really cool twist. Yeah. I mean, it's just a different set of values, it seems. 17:39 Wes: What would Shakespeare's version of Inception be? Right. Nolan isn't. Inception is one of his. Right. 17:43 Erin: Yeah. Well, that's his best one, I think. 17:46 Wes: Can you imagine? 17:47 Erin: Oh, no, it's not. I think it's the Prestige. 17:50 Wes: But anyway, the Tempest is the closest he gets to science fiction. Right. 17:54 Erin: Yes. And I think. But I think that. I think the plot or the genius or the, you know, what Nolan does say with the things inside of other things is always happening at the line level in Shakespeare anyway. You know, know, people being mirrors of each other, people infecting each other's thoughts, you know, all of that is simply being externalized in Nolan and leaving. Leaving the character sort of empty, but. 18:19 Wes: Right, right. Yeah. Very good. Very good point. 18:22 Erin: Not to go after him. I don't mean to. He made some good movies. I just. It's not really my thing. 18:28 Wes: Yeah. I mean, I think I enjoyed them, but I. Most entertainment leaves me feeling unsatisfied. 18:34 Erin: Tear Nolan for his bad films. 18:35 Wes: Yes. 18:38 Erin: They're great. They're great. 18:39 Wes: All right. What do we want to say before we conclude about these final two acts, which we knew we weren't going to spend a lot of time on, But I compared this to the point in Jaws where they go out to look for the shark. And I don't have as much interest. 18:56 Erin: Yeah, I don't either. I think it's really funny when Cassius and Brutus break up and. And then get back together. Like it's fun at the infighting that goes on and the little power games and stuff. We could spend a lot of time on that. And I don't know that we would come up with anything more interesting than simply saying, isn't this how all these things work? Everybody's getting on each other's nerves. 19:19 Wes: Yeah. I mean, it shows how. From some of the commentary I read, I can see that scholars and critics take these acts more seriously than I have on the current reading. So there's a lot going. You could say there's still a lot going on thematically. I suppose what we're supposed to get out of them fighting is the way in which their lofty ideals have degenerated into a power struggle. Right. That's one part of this. But that big fight in the tent, right. They really get into. 19:56 Erin: Gets ugly in a way, which is so sort of petty. And it's not even really fun. You know, they're not like brandishing great zingers at each other or anything. It's. I think it's very well done. I mean, it's very. It's interesting. 20:08 Wes: And. Yeah, and they're mad at one. Cassius wanted Brutus to pardon someone. And Brutus is saying, you didn't send the gold I needed. And is accusing Cassius of being corrupt himself. Which, again, I think all of us in Plutarch. But in the end, the way they make up, it seems like it turns out all to be a miscommunication. It all suddenly just dissolves because Cassius says, well, that messenger was a fool. How does it end? 20:39 Erin: Yeah, the messenger informed you wrong. Brutus has this whole thing that he doesn't like Cassius's methods. He doesn't want to get his hands dirty. So he needs money to be raised. But he doesn't want to do it the way Cassius. Cassius is doing it. So Cassius has to do it for him because he's too honorable. And then Brutus accuses Cassius of denying him the money or something like that. And then Cassius says, I didn't deny you the money. The messenger just informed you wrong. So that. Yeah. So the whole thing was about money being raised. Yeah. So they literally go back and forth. I denied you, not. You did. I did not. Like. It's so petty. 21:15 Wes: It's so stupid. It. Yeah, yeah. 21:18 Erin: I did send to you for certain sums of gold which you denied me. For I can raise no money by vile means. I have no ways to get money myself. I'm too pure. But you can get it, because, you know, you. You don't have my scruples. And he was but a fool that brought my answer back. So, yes, the whole thing was leaving things up to messengers, and. And in fact, what this does is presages the messenger problem, which will end in Cassius killing himself. 21:46 Wes: Right. We also get another poet. 21:48 Erin: Right. 21:49 Wes: Let me go in to see the generals. There is some grudge between them. Tis not meet they be alone. Lucilius tries to prevent him. Nothing but death shall stay me. And then he comes in and he tries to, you know, tries to kind of mediate their fight. And Cassius says, how vilely doth this cynic rhyme. 22:11 Erin: Here's a bad. 22:11 Wes: I abuse the poet. So. Yeah. What is that scene for? What should the wars do with these jigging fools? 22:22 Erin: Yeah. I mean, if Cinna is a shadow of Caesar or of Brutus, or of Brutus and Caesar, then Cinna himself also needs a shadow. He needs a rhyme. This poet says, for shame, you generals. What do you mean? Love and friends as two such men should be. For I have seen more years, I'm sure, than ye. You know. He has his little cups. 22:47 Wes: Now that you read that out loud, that is really bad. 22:49 Erin: Yeah. Yeah. No, it's a couple. It's. Yeah. So. So. 22:51 Wes: For I have seen more years, I'm sure, than ye. Yeah. 22:54 Erin: Everybody needs their little. Everybody needs their little pair. Their little couplet. 22:59 Wes: Yeah. So the poet is coming in to try to save the day and say, I've got something to add. I'm not just useless in war. Finally, I've found a purpose. I'm going to reconcile these two great generals. We get another scene where there's another critical mistake about military planning that is really Brutus fault. Cassius has the right idea. And then he. He's quickly overruled. I mean, he gives up very quickly. It's like Cassius has learned that he's just not gonna get anywhere with Brutus. And then we get the scene, another kind of poignant scene with music. And then Caesar's ghost. So it's kind of a tender scene between him and his slave boy, I guess, is what you would call it, Right. Lucius falls asleep with the instrument in his lap. 23:53 Erin: That's right. Yeah. 23:54 Wes: I guess I'm skipping over the part where Portia. 23:58 Erin: We get the two deaths of Portia, right? 24:01 Wes: Twice. Yeah. The two reveals. 24:05 Erin: And both times, Brutus is like, oh, that's too bad. 24:09 Wes: Yeah. 24:11 Erin: Forgive me. I'm too busy screwing up massively at Philippi. 24:15 Wes: Well, I think he shows. He shows. Shows? No man bears sorrow better. Portia is dead. No. You're not convinced? 24:25 Erin: I don't know. Brutus did a better job of memorializing Caesar, who he murdered, than his wife. But, yeah, it leaves me a little cold and ironic since Portia swallowed hot coals, but don't. 24:42 Wes: Humor. Yeah. So, Caesar's ghost. What do we make of that? Well, the music and. I mean, do you have anything to say about either of those? 24:51 Erin: There are lots and lots of echoes of Macbeth in here. 24:54 Wes: So what are the plays in which ghosts appear? Is it just. There's Macbeth and Caesar and Hamlet and. What else? I don't know if there's anything else. 25:04 Erin: There has to be. 25:05 Wes: Oh, Richard iii. Right. He's definitely in Richard ii. Just looking this up right now. Yeah. Hamlet, Macbeth, Julius Caesar and Richard iii. 25:15 Erin: Cymbeline. 25:16 Wes: Yeah. So that's really interesting to me that it happens so rarely in his place, I would say. I mean, it's used to good effect in Hamlet and Macbeth. Right. By the way, did you see Hamnet? 25:31 Erin: I haven't seen it yet. 25:32 Wes: Okay. That's a real tearjerker. But. But, yeah, I mean, is it being used effectively here? I mean, I hate to be a critic of good old Shakespeare. 25:45 Erin: Thy evil spirit, Brutus, to tell thee, thou shalt see me at Philippi. 25:50 Wes: I. 25:50 Erin: At Philippi. He doesn't get gray lines or anything. He's not Marley or something. 25:55 Wes: Right. I was about to say, remember me? 25:59 Erin: Your old partner? Yeah. 26:01 Wes: He could have all the winds with tongues in them speaking, you know? Really? I guess that'd be hard to pull off on the stage at the time. 26:09 Erin: Yeah. He doesn't say much. I mean, Banquo doesn't say anything in Macbeth. Right. He just shakes his gory locks at Macbeth. And, in fact, some stage adaptations don't even. They just have Macbeth responding to the empty chair. 26:22 Wes: But Macbeth is tortured with guilt, and Hamlet is tortured and Richard. So these usually happen in the context of. 26:33 Erin: That's interesting. 26:34 Wes: People racked with some interesting psychology, some sort of negative emotion, and here. Well, maybe that's the point. Maybe Brutus's kind of indifference to this is part of the point. 26:49 Erin: It's more about the haunted than the hauntee, You know, Brutus just doesn't. He shall not be moved. 27:00 Wes: Ill spirit, I would hold more talk with thee. Yeah. But other than that, it's almost like Brutus is. He's just kind of out of it. That whole scene with Lucius and the music, too, it's almost in. Like his heart is not in the project of war. Exactly. 27:17 Erin: Well, what is there for Brutus at this point? I mean, Brutus. Brutus's whole bag was opposition. Brutus needed a Caesar to rail against. 27:26 Wes: Yeah, that's a good point. 27:28 Erin: And, you know, what's he going to do? I mean, he's powerless against the actual tide of the empire. You know, he's gotten rid of his personal antagonist and now dramatically, you know, he's sort of floundering. 27:43 Wes: Yeah. I don't know. I'm curious. I wonder how many people sort of know you. Yeah. Get less interested in this play, in Acts 4 and 5, like me. Is that the typical response? Or is it. Am I missing something? 27:56 Erin: It must be. 27:57 Wes: But anyway. Yeah. Do you have any final. Final words before we conclude we should 28:02 Erin: end where we began, with Antony's last words about Brutus, you know, because maybe absent Caesar and in light of, you know, when I was coming down hard on Brutus and you said, oh, you don't agree with Antony's assessment of him. Him, Maybe this. This long decline into the final. Into the final scene here at the end of Act 5, we can get here with Brutus or Antony can get here with Brutus because he's become mild in the absence of this force to fight against. Or the length of these scenes or the distance now we've traveled between Caesar's murder at the exact halfway point. Point has kind of made us remember. I don't know. It goes against. Goes against Antony's idea that the evil men do lives after them, but the good is often interred with their bones. But maybe Antony is remembering what was good about Brutus because there's sort of been enough dramaturgical time to come back around or memorialize him. Well. And he's been softened in light of the fact that he's lost in battle. And so Antony is going to give him his due. And also, the spark has gone out of his life now that Caesar is dead and his reason for living and fighting for the republic is dead, too. 29:19 Wes: Yeah, it's interesting. I want to just compare what Plutarch has to say just to get an idea. Give people an idea of how Shakespeare adapted this so from the Marcus Brutus life. Because I think it ends the same way. By the way, also, Brutus's mom was a mistress of Caesar. Servilia. 29:43 Erin: No way. Yeah, that is. 29:47 Wes: And none of that of course, none of the Hamlet type of stuff exploited 29:54 Erin: well, but Bloom says that this is even more suggestive of that sort of Freudian conflict than Hamlet. Hamlet. I mean, I think I find that an absurd statement on Bloom's part, but I think it's funny that he thinks so and yet doesn't mention that fact in his essay on Julius Caesar. 30:15 Wes: Brutus's dead body was found by Antony, who commanded the richest purple mantle that he had to be thrown over it. And afterwards, the mantle being stolen, he found the thief and had him put to death. He sent the ashes of Brutus to his mother. Servilia. 30:30 Erin: Servilia is not a great name on a couple levels, but 30:36 Wes: especially if you're dating Caesar. 30:38 Erin: Yeah. I'll do anything for you. 30:43 Wes: Oh, you know what? It's in the Antony. I think it's in the Antony life, anyway. All right, that's it. 30:49 Erin: We made it. 30:50 Wes: That's the Antony. Six hours of discussing. What do you mean? 30:54 Erin: We didn't really cover the. The last two acts. 30:57 Wes: Yeah, I don't feel. I don't feel bad about that at all. 31:00 Erin: Neither do I. Neither do I. 31:02 Wes: But this was fun. All right, thank you. 31:05 Erin: Thank you, and thanks to everyone who listened. For an easy way to do that, go to subtextpodcast.com patreon.com subtextpodcast Please send your questions, feedback, and episode requests to [email protected] if we get enough questions, we'll do some bonus Q and A shows for subscribers. You can also find us on Facebook subtextpodcast and on Twitter enjoysubtext.