The Creative Duo Behind "Billions"

On The Gist, guests Brian Koppelman and David Levien explain why they stopped making easy TV-show deals with networks. For Billions, the longtime creative duo decided to take the time to write the show they wanted to make on spec. Their series premiere set records for Showtime, and you can watch it for free online. You can also check out Brian's podcast The Moment. For the Spiel, Mike identifies similar issues raised by Making a Murderer and the new season of Serial. Today's sponsor: Audible.com, with more than 180,000 audiobooks and spoken-word audio products. Get a free 30-day trial and a free audiobook at AudiblePodcast.com/thegist. Join Slate Plus! Members get bonus segments, exclusive member-only podcasts, and more. Sign up for a free trial today at slate.com/gistplus. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.