I need sports to have to play the room. Stand up and walk now. Hello and welcome to the watch. My name is Chris Ryan.
I am an editor at theringer.com and joining me in the studio. He'll take those crab fries to go. It's Andy Greenwood. So excited to talk about our Emmy winner for most disappointing drama, Kevin Petula's offense.
You got it. You got the first Eagles reference in before me. Greenwood today, we're talking about the Emmys, which were last night. And we're also talking about the second episode of Task.
By the way, you can always email the watch at thewatchatthewatchitspotify.com. You can follow us on Instagram at thewatchpod.com underscore on Instagram, where you'll find that Kaya is just doing amazing stuff with vertical content, vertical frame video. I agree. And now I have Kai helping.
He's me doing some fan. Kai is helping. He's doing fancy graphics now. That's right.
We're really leveling up on the Instagram. I also have to say, I feel like since you returned from Italy, Kai, you're bringing a certain European sensibility to the aesthetics of the streaming. You're smoking. I know.
A lot of bank holidays. And also, you can watch us on YouTube. Brinner-TV is the channel. Or you should watch us on Spotify, where you're hopefully also listening to us.
Comment on YouTube, Chris, Reads him. The Emmys. An event. And a tradition unlike any other.
Similar to many others. Similar to all the other award shows. I wanted to go to you first, Andy, because I could tell you're chomping at the big. I am.
Greenwald. I don't even have a question. The Emmys.dot.dot. And you say what?
I say, everyone here, all three of us know that I am a big Nate Bradgetzi fan. Oh, shit. I can just call you your boy. Awesome.
Are you abandoning your child? I have watched that last Netflix special multiple times. And I would love to see him in person one day doing his clean comedy. I think he's fantastic.
I think he delivered one of the all-time worst hosting performances last night. And I think the most charitable thing you could say about it is the epic he-check in that he clearly thought that he could just show up and be like, well, I don't know stuff. And hosting a word show. You can't do that.
You especially can't do that with the Emmys, which is maybe even more than any of the other major award shows, notoriously unwieldy and long and jumps tonally from Jeff Probes to adolescence. Sure. You have to. Very similar things, actually, if you think about it, both about survival.
God, what was your diet this morning? Did you have a lot of caffeine? I did. This is sharp work.
I thought it was incredibly dispiriting. And it really had the vibe of a guy who on Instagram was like, thanks, LA, for the rehearsal. I'm off to Denver for two sold out shows. See you Sunday.
It doesn't work. It not only does it not work to be like, I have one joke that sucked about money and costing money, which is knowledge of getting this timer. This is a funny bit that punishes. Explain the bit.
Just find a bit. Maybe. Maybe. Who didn't watch it?
He's watching JJ McCarthy. Did you want to watch JJ McCarthy? Yes. That guy lost more than Mike White last night.
That's crazy. So the bit was that Nate Barghatsy was like, I will donate $100,000, which by the way, for a guy who's making millions every year. That seemed a little weird. Yeah.
And this is the CBS network, which was just purchased for what? How many billions of cash are that? Yeah. It was not just.
Well, the CBS was purchased. My point is $100,000 is the Boys and Girls Club of America. But for every speech that goes over 45 seconds, we will begin to count down where every second is $1,000 away from the donation. So every second you don't use is put it back in the plus column.
This was a dumb bit from the beginning that always was going to end up with them being like, oh, my good friends at CBS are going to make this whole anyway and make a nice donation. It punished the people who won awards, who maybe will never do this again. And made it about their love of children and charity, as opposed to their shiny moment. It also, weirdly did, what's the reverse of rewarding?
Oh, I mean, upon a shame. It rewarded presenters for talking to you. Oh, yeah. I mean, the Brad Garrett Ray Romano bit that went on seemingly for like seven minutes.
Yeah. Jennifer Coolidge is still talking. Yeah. That was just, it was bad when it was suggested.
It was bad throughout. That was his only contribution to the humor of even, he didn't have any other jokes. He didn't have any material. And his bit that he's not really familiar with how television works to the industry was especially poorly timed when, I have to say, looking at the list of winners, a remarkably good story could have been told about the health of the industry and about the health of television in general.
And it was a wild generational bag fumble for the TV industry, not to take advantage of that. Every year we talk about how the Oscars do something that I kind of hate, but now I do understand why they do it, which is movies. Am I right? Remember movies with horses called Westerns?
Remember space movies? We laugh at movies. And the whole subtext of the night is watch movies. You like them.
Remember? Last night's whole thing of like Reba McIntyre singing the Golden Girls theme song. But God forbid, the ascendant star of Adolescence's 15-year-old kid can talk for more than 40 seconds while charming the room. Fuck out of here.
Yes. Sucked. Yeah. A good night for television, but an awful broadcast.
How much did you feel like this was a, I don't know, like almost like an end of an era, a fin de ci, if you will, where I was thinking about how this is now, this was Ames Reba for Stephen Colbert. Obviously, he's one for Best Variety Show, I believe, at the end or towards the end of the talk show. And gives this rousing speech. And I love this country now more than ever, and everybody's standing and shouting Stephen, Stephen.
And I just, I felt like, Carrie Brudge, Bradshaw, always couldn't help but wonder if we were really saying goodbye and we were saying hello to like, maybe even if it's just a construction of television, even if it's just like, there won't be as many platforms next year or two years from now or whatever. There seems to be something in the air. But you know, by that same token, like you said, I do think it was a really good night for the health of the industry and the swath of projects that get recognized. And, you know, White Lotus was wildly shut out, although I think it was slightly predictable with a combination of chauffeate, it was not necessarily the most popular season.
Well, they had to go against competition too. And they all get nominated, so they cancel each other out. Like that happened category after category. And which was the best.
Yeah, by the end, it was like, oh, it has no chance. Yes. You know what I mean? Like by the end of the broadcast, it was like, this is going to be the pit.
That seems, I mean, first of all, Kudos to us. I think we did get any prediction we made. I think we got right. Including our dream, dream heave from midcourt for Catherine Linasse because of the White Lotus cancellation of that.
Which is awesome. By the way, what a fascinating life. There was a profile fair in the New York Times a week or two ago. It was really cool.
But can you name, like, I don't maybe you know because you've been paying attention. But I think an incredible game would be, can you name her three spouses? Dennis Opper, all of whom are actors. Grant Snow.
Show. Show. He was not a bastard from the North. He was on Melrose Place.
Let's ratchet it down. You have the bastard, Grant Snow. Oh, he's the third. You will never guess.
He was a popular television actor of the 90s. OK. And you will never guess. So we shouldn't even do this.
Tell me, French steward. Oh, right? Really? I made the same face for the same reason.
You're pretty dumb. I know. Yeah, I know. Boy, she's just like a zellig.
Yeah. She's awesome on the show. And you almost don't want to lead with the bad broadcast because Kathleen Lanasse, winning for the show, six months ago, this is an impossibility. A year ago, it was an impossibility.
Jeff Hiller, winning for somebody somewhere. A show that we like admire, kind of didn't cover. I didn't watch the last season. He's wonderful in it.
And that's what these award shows ought to be. It should be, unlike the Eagles, a share the wealth offense where lots of people get touches. And him winning that award means a lot more, I think, for him, for his career, for that show, than the wonderful in everything he does, Coleman Domingo. I would love it if Coleman Domingo won, but I feel like Jeff Hiller winning is more significant.
It's also pretty awesome. I don't want to take anything away from severance, which is so that I think I have more time for than you do. But obviously is a beloved and scrutinized and highly anticipated show. Britlauer won for drama actress and from Notomen won supporting actor.
So it did go away with some awards. And I think it did win some at the creative arts. But I think that giving it to the pit, even though there's not like a Borg hive mind decision to do this because of this reason, with the pit coming back in January. And now the pit can run a promotional campaign that says, the Emmy decorated show of the year returns again in January.
Whereas you give it to severance, and then it's like, you and 28, brother. Maybe. Yeah. Look, take my own opinions about the show out of it.
Trellsselman is awesome. It was a great win, well deserved, beautiful speech, great suit. Britlauer is also really, really good on the show. That was a surprise.
I think people thought Kathy Bates was going to win. Did you see the piece of paper that said Let Me Out on the back when she was reading her? She got all excited. You fired up, Reddit.
I did. I did. I did. You think she meant, please get me out of the show, Hell, because I'd like to do something else before 2037?
No, I don't think that's what I meant either. The reason why severance didn't, we were very confident that the pit was going to win. You could write that off to our bias about what we preferred. That's not why I thought it was going to win.
You can already see some post-broadcast commentary of like, oh, well, the relationship that the audience or the voters have with the pit is a hot show in terms of like, I actively love these people and want to watch it. And severance is a cold show. I mean, in many ways, but specifically I admire it, but I don't love it. And sometimes it takes a little bit of stretching before I can release it down and commit to it.
That's part of it. But I genuinely believe what it comes down to is the fact that the industry is always going to vote for a show that employs hundreds of people on a sound stage in Los Angeles that gives them yearly work over a show that films sometimes in New York every three years or so. Is that why you think that traditionally there have been more rubber stamp winners over the course of like, it's just like, I think you could make that argument. I mean, like, Colbert was making that point when he was saying about being unemployed.
He wasn't really thinking about himself. He was talking about his crew who had a 10 year gig. These things don't exist anymore, especially they're getting more and more rare. I think that that is an industry vote as much as it is a critical vote for the pit over severance.
And I was not surprised that it won. But I think there is a reason to be like, holy shit, because when the show premiered, there was some, remember when we talked about it, well, Netflix has its ER coming too, like nobody really knew what it was. But then when you see it play out like this, I mean, no, Wiley never won an Emmy. It's a great game for watch podcasts.
That's true. It was amazing for him. He was fantastic. He was a fantastic speech.
It was great. For the comedy stuff, I wanted to just ask whether you felt like the studio won because of an exhaustion with bare versus hacks is the bare comedy stuff. Or did the studio win because kind of like what you're saying, Hollywood loves to see either reflection or affirmation of its mission. That this was just a show that everybody got behind because of a kind of what it said about the town and what it said about the people who lived here.
I think it's more that. And the reason why is because hacks still swept the acting category as Jean Smart and apparently Burz Van and I'm binder one. Oh, no, it's not fair. I didn't know.
She has many interests. She expressed a broadcast. So it's hard to pin her down. Clearly, there is a lot of love for that show still in the industry.
The bear, I don't think, was part of the conversation. Not just because it was shut out last night, but this was, you know, there was confusion because the show was yearly. And so I like, like, Liza Klon's eyes just winning the size of the cologne winning last year for a season in which she wasn't as featured as she was in the season that had her year. Yes, but then where she had had her take out episode in.
Right. Sorry, Liza Klon's eyes. I apologize. She, last night was the, she was nominated for the season that had the episode napkins that she was amazing.
And it did not even seem like she was going to, it was clear that she was not going to win that award. I think that the version of the debate that we've had about the bear, not as a comedy or non-relation other shows, has settled into the industry, which is this was two seasons. This is not a full season of show spread out over two seasons. And it's not funny.
And the trauma drama that was alluded to in the actually kind of funny, Fylo Farnsworth opening bit, is not really worth the squeeze at this time. I don't think it was even considered. OK. Couple, oh, I want to talk about adolescence.
Because on the flip side of the pit, which does in a lot of ways a very traditional thing where, especially the length of the season, it's quick turnaround for another season. It's a hospital procedural, which is a sort of a procedural. Well, I guess it is very much procedural. It's just not like the way we usually approach those things.
It is very traditional in some ways. Adolescence is the kind of like form-breaking, highly cinematic, incredibly creative act that I think got us fired up about this era of television in the first place. And I got to admit, man, I could not be fucking happier for people than the people who made adolescence winning for that. And it's an obvious that they, I know that it's stupid to judge things off of people's reactions to winning.
But when you make something like that, I think it's a testament to the power of the thing that you made when everybody else around you and everybody worked on it is so fucking pumped up that it won. So to see when Stephen Graham won, you know, Ashley Walters just like basically climbing over three rows to like honking him is really cool. I think first of all, he's incredible. What a creative dynamo.
That show is art, that show is important. That show is astonishing jaw-dropping, moves the medium forward and deserves everything. And again, it's worth taking a moment to say like, we said last week, like, did the viewers watch it? Is it a tough watch?
No, people understood the brief that you watch something and you recognize greatness. And that was fantastic to see. One of my favorite moments of the night was watching Colin Farrell react to Stephen Graham winning. He seemed happier than Stephen Graham, which is really sweet.
Some people thought that Colin Farrell was the favorite in that. It's like, it did just feel like, I noticed that. What did he do? He was thrilled.
That's great. He's the best. He was just so happy for a guy that he clearly has known for a long time and feels like he deserved it. And it wasn't really, this was one of those categories, right?
I don't think you could get into the like, oh, did people prefer this? Or was there gamesmanship or strong arming for Netflix's power in the marketplace? Look, these other shows were good, but they were up against a creative and critical juggernaut, which absolutely, absolutely deserved to win. And by the way, I understood what Elizabeth Banks was saying about it was remarkable that 80% of the category of directing for limited series were women.
But that felt almost unfair to Philip Barantini, who, I mean, he did something that no one has ever done, right, a field of four women. No, he, I apologize. But he directed at a series that was all oneers and made it artful and not show offy. And he deserved to win.
Now, there's a secondary argument about like why really good directors like Jennifer Gethsinger or Helen Shaver are directing episodic penguins, which was fine as opposed to having incredible river opportunities. That's not an argument that's gonna be lit again last night. I did want to, we skipped over the comedy thing. I did just want to say about the studio.
The studio was great. The studio won not just because of industry navel gazing, I think it also won because it was a comedy that was fully ambitious in its aims of being a comedy. I think a lot of the other shows that separate themselves from the pack, like the reason why Hacks has won many times or the bare one before that, whereas a more joke driven show like what we do in the shadows hasn't, is because ambition is coded as being a little more dramatic. And the studio takes the ambition and the budget and the opportunity and goes all in on being comedy, which I think matters.
And it's nice to have a little differentiation between the categories and that regard. I think when I first saw the studio pilot, which was back in March, I was like, it is also going to be a show that tips towards the dramatic, that satire is sometimes so black, it's not funny or well in college. Yeah, right. But instead it became much more gag oriented, kind of very smart gags, but like this parking space bit is going to go on and it was closer maybe to curb than it was to the player.
You know? Which was a fine. And it was also sustainable. And a smart reflection of, yeah, exactly, the material.
Like that's an ongoing comedy series, where they did the first episode, which was the one that was the most nominated, was a statement. And then they live in the wreckage, basically, of that statement going forward. I also want to say like, I do not, I've never crossed paths with Seth Rogen. I'm a huge fan.
I don't know his work process. This is all anecdotal, but people say, he's wonderful about to work with. And it's like a really good creative vibe with him and Evan Goldberg. Frida Perez who won, so we talked about this when we were talking about the show, that it seemed notable and rare that all the executive producers of the show, everyone who wrote episodes, were all credited as co-creators.
That seems very democratic and generous. You saw that on stage last night where the five of them or six of them got up there. They made a moment of Frida Perez, one of the creators being the first Latino to win as a producer in that category. I didn't know her story that she started as Seth Rogen's assistant.
I didn't know that he was promoted to writer and then contributed to like a movie that he's made and is now co-creator. And I was like, that is how this is supposed to go. That is what the industry, that is a good relic of the industry, that the studio mourns that he is trying to pay for. And I thought that was really nice.
Like a lot of the internal industry drama and the strikes and things, one of the inciting incidents is that lack of institutional support and growth opportunities and all that. So that's really- Yeah, there was just an article, I think it was in Hollywood order about like the state of product PAs. In town and how it used to be this first rung of the ladder that you would sort of start to climb up. And if you were gonna do, you know, you could obviously shadow a bunch of people to decide like, am I gonna be a PA and go towards production?
Or am I gonna go towards working in a studio? Or am I gonna go try and work for this direction company? Or whatever? And now it's kind of like, it's just a carousel that goes round and round and round and work is so hard to come by, especially in LA.
And it's hard to live in LA anyway, that it's just become like an almost impossible job. Yes. And so it was nice to see him practice, not even when he preaches, just practicing good behavior in the industry and good up and giving opportunities. The one thing I wanted to ask you is, do you think that Dan Gilroy is gonna award his any overtone?
This is exactly what I have to say. So it's a set this up. And or one writing, which it was very much like, it was nice to know that any of the people in that crowd had watched Andor basically. And like, as you say, the ball-nohors knew.
That was classic, like Tarantino was one Emmys, but for writing, because that's the category that they'll reward the thing that's a little bit outside of the Oscars. Yeah, sorry, Oscars. I was like, do you want an Emmys? For the Pearson Golden Girls.
For the Pearson Golden Girls. That's right. They were one best writing in a drama series for Welcome to the Rebellion. And Dan Gilroy is the writer of that episode.
I would imagine that Tony Gilroy had some input on that episode. And it stays in the family. And I'm sure at Thanksgiving, they'll just put it in the middle and be like, it's for everybody. I feel like the vibe I get for the Gilroys is that they will not do that.
And that will be the conversation. Tell me what it is. Like, come on the watch and tell me about, tell us all about visitation rights for that Emmys. It was good, big brother behavior.
Like, that is genuinely Tony modeling, good showrunner behavior. Even though this was his first time being a showrunner. He is, everybody understands. He is the creator.
He is the showrunner. He is the last one to touch the pages that go out. He's the last one in the edit. He was co-composing the score.
Like, that's his baby. Both seasons, he divvied up the writing among his writers where he took credit for three episodes only of each season. And the rest were farmed out. Everyone basically wrote an arc this season.
It just so happened that his brother Dan, who is an accomplished screenwriter and director in his own right, wrote what is pretty much uniformly agreed upon as the best episode of the series. Which was which one. So that was very cool and very gracious. He won, he thanked his brother.
He thanked Genevieve O'Reilly, who should have been nominated, which I thought was cool. But again, like it's hard to nitpick when, and or did win. On Thursday, I was like, you know, the nomination was the reward. I'm not gonna get upset about this stuff.
It's not like when we talk about television twice a week for the last decade plus, we do not talk about like any winners. We just don't. And I don't ever hear anywhere else besides in Los Angeles is people being like, well, I know that that one in Emmy, you know, and it's just not a barometer of what people are watching and what's important about television. No, but it does, if you are a fan of TV that might not be mainstream or even Matlock.
Like there is an argument to be made that hacks being a glorified celebrated show that will wrap up in style after it's fifth season, which I think Hannah and Boinder confirmed last night. There's no guarantee that it would have had that opportunity had it not started winning Emmys from its first season. Totally great. It does matter in terms of the lifespan of shows.
I can give them a second chance. And I do think in terms of the day. I just think about the discourse around like what people say when they're talking about how great Andory is or how great severance is. It's not like, well, I liked severance, but it didn't win any Emmys.
No, but I wonder if in this more stratified streaming era, do you think it means more or matters more to creators? Because like 20 years ago, like, I'm sure it matters to some creators and for some it's just like, I don't give a shit. No, but what I mean is like, it felt like, maybe I'm wrong, maybe this is just hindsight, but like to the wire never won any major awards, but it was an immediate ecosystem where it was almost punk that it didn't win the awards. Yeah, but like the wire was on for the first two seasons of the wire, it definitely felt like the people who love the wire were like keeping it on life support.
You know what? Like there was two or three is the wire coming back runs. For sure. Season three.
I was like, I don't know if they're gonna bring it back. I don't know if they're gonna bring it back. And obviously it kind of entered into a more of a like Peabody award winning the best television has to offer. Which used to be an argument you could make for survival.
And then that got it to its fourth and fifth season. That's right. I wonder whether or not that is even a thing anymore. I mean, I know that HBO thinks it's a thing.
I know that I'm sure it's a thing. Are there any shows that you can think of that fall into the Charles Barkley zone of like uniformly recognized as one of the best ever but never won the title? Because if you go back through like all the shows other than the wire. Other than the wire because if you go through, you know, the sort of consensus greatest shows, they all want whether it's ER, the West Wing, Breaking Bad, Mad Men's, Sopranos, they all had their turn.
Even Game of Thrones had its. Friday Night Lights win? Anything? No, but I feel like that's not ever in, it's in the most beloved conversation.
But like, and so the reason I bring it up is because for something like severance, which has a case to be made that it is the area. It's a zero zero over one. Let me check on that. Maybe we can Google that while I finish this thought.
That there's a case to be made that severance is the inheritor of that legacy right now in terms of a prestige, water cooler, mystery box show that is driving conversation, that is making stars. Noticeable again that like when we talked about the show coming on the air, we were using like salary cap analogies that like if you have Stiller and Christopher Walken and Turturo and Purtur-Sharkett in your cast, you're gonna need to fill out your young defense with your Tumel Tillmans and your brilow. They want. So that was much like we won the Super Bowl last year with the young defense that worked out.
Yeah. You know what I mean? But so if this show is the inheritor of that mantle being such a bifurcated what is really popular world, having the proof, historical proof that the industry agreed that this was the best drama might be more significant for a severance than at any other time in history. It could be right.
And I think I would feel more strongly about it if I thought it was coming back within this Trump administration. You know? Well, this one could be ongoing. No, that's like this particular one, the third one, maybe not.
Oh, I think we're gonna recognize it at the beginning of the third term. It's just a role in the first. Oh, you know, it's just an era. You know, it's like an ambroship.
Yeah, it's gonna be an election. Well, sweetie. But anyway, that argument is almost moot because one thing I feel confident saying is that there will be as many seasons of, I mean, there will be a third season of severance. There will probably be a fourth season of severance.
That's just the way Apple works where they, it's working for them. They like it. They like the procedures. They like they had a big party.
Tim Cook was there at the Emmys last night. It's not, it's not living season to season or like, oh, did we get a Peabody? Okay, we'll greenlight it. Right.
So who knows what the argument is. Let's take a quick break here. I'll let you have any final Emmys thoughts. Who should host next year?
I just, just, it would be very funny if Stephen Colbert hosted. Sure. He's free. I just wanna say that like the hosting, I feel like it's just crazy.
We're still having these arguments. Hosting matters. It matters, but does it matter for the first seven minutes? Is it really just about the opening monologue?
Do you think a host has any responsibility of like time of show and like run of show? Time of show, no. But how you feel about the time of show or the run of show? Or there have been moments.
There's this hard thing. Like there is a world in which Tramiel Tillman would be a very good host. But not enough people know who that is. That's not somebody you can put on advertising and be like the guy from severance is hosting.
Or something like that where I'm just like trying to think of like someone who's like, I actually have benefited directly from the Emmys recognizing talent. I am a lovely man who can, apparently a five-tool player who can both run a submarine and also a marching band. I think you're pitching to the Jeff Hiller hosting. No, I just mean like, or the idea that there is no host, but it's like groups of actors.
But like, I honestly think like every time you pick a stand up to do it, you're just tossing a coin. Malaney could have hosted and had similarly like- Malaney has a different relationship. He loves show business. His whole career is a love letter to the different facets of show business.
Yes, but he loves like weird Conan and Letterman and like public access television. And like, does he like like like song and dance like sing for your supper shit? Yes, he loves musical theater. Did you watch the documentary now or his sack lunch?
I'm not getting into a debate about whether or not. I just think that like- This is the most spirit argument we've had in three and a half years. Don't tap out now. Who do you want to host this?
I just want to say that the biggest example evidence of what I'm trying to express here is- I think he's just so mad that Nate didn't crush. I'm furious. I love that kid that's underdog. I did but he's talking to it.
He's got to be funny. He's funny. He's fine. He's fine.
He's good. You're going to lord this over me, huh? One of the nominees for Variety Special was The Oscars, as it often is, but it was The Oscars that Conan hosted. And I feel like that is an exact, that's a comparison point to make.
Conan announced as The Oscar Host. There's a little bit like, well, why is he hosting The Oscars? He hasn't really been in any movies. What is his relationship to this industry?
Is it just going to be like when Letterman did it 20 plus years ago? Conan did the work and delivered a very, very memorable job hosting so much so that he's already hosting next years. Like, you got to work to do that job. Not just bring your job that you're very good at to a roomful of people who are like, what are you doing here?
And I think that like, or when Kimmel's hosted The Oscars, when there was a crazy Lala Land thing that happened and it cuts to him, he's ready to meet the moment. Yeah, Nate Barghazi have been able to handle that. No. He said, if they were like, severance, wait.
The pit, what would Nate do? He's like, I just got here. This is so weird. You all invited me here.
I got to go. You know what I mean? That bit didn't translate to this. Now, I don't know if he cares about that particularly, but it just, I'm offended because what I like to see Chris in podcasts or in a word show is his effort.
And I think he tanked it. And I think he's waking up. That's why he loved the touch push. Oh, you mean in football games?
Or just like, good job out there in the studio today. Like Bill's out there just slapping everybody on the way out the door. Yeah. Some of your favorite Hells kitchen bars.
All right, well, a good night for TV, a bad broadcast. All right. Let's take a break and we'll come back and do task. Task talk.
Let's go. We too. Right here. You all fired up about Nate Bargatsy and he had that same energy when it comes to crab fries.
Do you think a Casey boys famous Pennsylvania that he is intentionally scheduled task to run week with week with the Eagles season? So week two of task is week two of the season. That is an incredible point. Do you think he did that on purpose?
We're five week? I would. Oh, well, that's a really good question. I think that would have tasked to go week off if the Eagles would have passed the end.
Right. The only reason I know, and I feel comfortable saying this, is that if we had Casey on the podcast right now and asked him this point blank, he would say, Eagles are football, right? Like that is what Casey would say. That's not what he would say.
100% go birds. Come on. He would be for us. But we've discussed Philly sports with him and that's not, you know, he likes jumping in quarries.
I know that you watched this episode during the daytime. Yeah, I don't really know that. Early morning and that affected your maybe mindset while watching it. Slightly.
I thought that this was even better than the pilot. Yeah. This one's called Family Statements. It's written by Inglesby and directed by Jeremiah Zigar.
Again, it's written by Brad Inglesby and directed by Jeremiah Zigar. Yeah. I got to write this time. I'm hard.
Sorry, Jeremiah. And I don't know. Like I feel like you write the checks of the character moments so that when you cash them on the set pieces or tension, like they just hit harder. Yeah.
And that's what Inglesby does for me up there with the best, where it's like I'm going to make you care about 14 people almost. And we have so many groups now, like all these like little clicks within the show. And even if you fucking hate the guys in the dark arts, you're like, well, it seems like Jay and Perry are an intense duo. And I am now like pretty locked in.
Yeah, they practice politics the right way. Yeah. Which thing of the episode? I loved it.
I you were right. And I appreciate you pointing out that it is challenging to we have screeners. We're lucky to have them. I watched the show early for the Eagles game.
A bad episode of a show in the wrong context could really set me off. Yeah. This was so good that I was drawn in. And I actually found myself wishing I had like black curtains because it just did not meet the moment of the show.
But I was still completely riveted. I like a lot we were saying about how you if you if you this show was so much about tone and art direction and vibe and it sunken in and the cigarettes and the beer and you feel it. But there is a lot of technique involved here. And I'm glad you started with that.
Because I was thinking about one of the things that does separate Brad Ingallsby from other writers on TV at the moment is that he seems to have a genuine curiosity and interest in every puzzle piece that adds up for the larger trauma picture. I did not know we were going to get the backstory of the plastic fillies cup that has vodka in it now, for example. I did not know that we would spend time discussing where the imprisoned brother ran after his ill-fated attempt to play with lacrosse or was it a lacrosse? Yes.
When he was nobody passing the ball during a lacrosse game and then he had just like stormed off broke a car window and vanished for several hours only to turn up like in the dugout of a field. Which then becomes a between Tom's plot later when Tom was sort of fine his daughter. Even a tiny moment like how Sam likes his pancakes is just a question when Robbie asks him that. That's just not a question you're used to hearing.
Now I think there's a side argument to be made that the way most big ticket TV shows are constructed and made these days, they're just simply as a real estate for that kind of small emotional character beat because you're too busy establishing why Renira has the right to the throne or whatever. You know what I mean? Like I don't even need a drive by. I mean these shows have different purposes.
And she's on a dragon. You're not really going to get her with a drive by. That's true. She's going to wear a driving by little electric car and be like, bing bing bing.
Oh, down to 48%. You're just full over in charge. I'll never make it to King's Landing this way. And no more federal credit for my good work.
Can you believe it? I did things the right way. You should have watched land man a little bit more tentatively. Anyway, I just feel like his interest and curiosity in those details is what makes this so much more than the sum of his already impressive parts.
Obviously there's a lot of things from this episode to break down. Ruffalo's a really gorgeous moment talking about what happened to his family. Not gorgeous maybe isn't the right word. But it's easier to talk about forgiveness when it's not your loss.
Yeah, it's a very emotionally trenchant. And you know, the introduction and really like immersion into the world of the motorcycle called the Dark Arts who are kind of outside of, you know, this sort of two sides of a coin, Robbie Tom thing going on. They are the overarching villains of the series. And I think it's really cool to get like an insight into the internal dynamics of it.
Like that there's like a national mother club or network that runs these local chapters and that parries help Jay, usurp someone to take over, but now Jay is like highheadedness or lack of attention to detail and they cost them. Can I ask you just side-back question here? How did you feel about the break in storytelling aesthetics for that sequence? To go away from one of the two people you mean?
No, no, that's actually another good question that I should have asked you. But specifically when we were getting the download on how the Dark Arts operate. Oh, and like two- Tristan stuff. Footage photos.
Like that was all. I thought that was good. I feel like it's helpful. And I think that it's good to see the show not be done trying stuff after one hour.
That's a good point. And I think a lot of things because you wind up having like a producing director who sets the tone and kind of makes the rules for the visual language of a show. Often you'll get kind of wrote like, hey, I gotta follow the playbook from what we have, you know? And it was cool to see.
I mean, obviously, Zagar is directed both of those episodes. And maybe we'll get more of that stuff to follow. But I thought it was neat to have like, it's a pretty darkly lit show to have like, this is this guy and this is what he does is a little bit of is pretty effective. Especially because, again, this is something I wanna check in with you if you have the same experience that I did, but Jason is the middle manager of the Dark Arts who may be in a bit of a pickle here.
Okay. Right? Yes. He's the guy who wakes up and gets the call and then the guy's like, the guy who's giving you Greg from White Lotus Vibes, but isn't him?
Yeah, that's Perry. That's Perry. And Perry's Jason in this position, right? Right.
Jason. Jason. The casting is just unrealness. We have to talk about that.
But this guy is an Irish actor. I don't have his name in front of me. Sam Keeley. Sam Keeley.
Another just like task is, I'm not just saying this because most of the people in the cast seem to be from Ireland in the United Kingdom. It is cast like a British show in the sense that you just feel like these are the best people for the job and they are unrecognizable if we've ever seen them before. And they are pouring themselves into it and it is star making rather than star firming. But anyway, that actor Sam Keeley has Robbie Sad Eyes and he looks kind of like Tom Helfry.
Yes. At first was like, is this his brother who we've been talking about? And then I believe this, the television show informed us that Jason actually beat Robbie's brother to death. It's implied.
Yeah. And that Maeve knows about this, right? But did you have a similar confusion momentarily or do you feel like there's intention in the fact that these broken men all look related in some way? I think that it's probably more about the idea that like that's just the way that guys look who do stuff like that.
Not like us. No, I mean, I just put their belt. They have tats like they have. I'm not sure if they work with their bike hands all day or whatever.
Like if I took my shirt off, it would just say the watch. But with the same illustration we have, but just your half of your face. And then you'd be covering up a neat bar got to you. I see a bunch of your chairs.
Can I just say Malaini instead of Barghazi? It didn't bother me. I think in the trailer, in the teaser, especially, there's a shot of Jason and it looks like, in the shot of him on the motorcycle, you're like, is that Pelfree? Right.
But I didn't have the problem in the show. Sorry. What was I going to say about that? I completely took you off guard.
You were talking about Perry and you were giving us the background, I think, of some of the dark hearts. Yeah. And that was a good question about like the... I guess I interrupted twice.
It was just like, well, let's break down. What we just said. Let's diagram it. Can we get the whiteboard up?
Of course, said this. Then they had me to joke, but then Chris made a joke inside that joke. And then it was turned 15 and we handed off. We were like, field position, baby.
Oh, I remember I was going to say. Yeah, thank you. Good. Margarita LaVava.
That's Jason's girlfriend in the show. Damn. See? Not recognizing people that I genuinely like all the time.
Turn the brightness up. In my defense, I watched the screener, which is notoriously. Like, where should I look? HBO screeners are so dark.
Yes. Do you remember watching the screeners? This is a rich problem. But like the episode of Game of Thrones, where the Night King comes to like Winterfell and it's the entire thing is dark.
I basically just guess. You were like, is that the guy from the dark? I had no idea what's going on. Margarita is riffing at that point.
I thought that just getting like a little peek into that was fantastic. And then what I was going to say about those character moments just to kind of loop back to that was we didn't get much action, but the way you spent time with people and many, many, many, many people have reached out to us to discuss DJ Grassinova. Already? Yes.
I will read a note from our email from our listener, Patrick. Shocking development with Hurricane Lizzie this week. There's this phenomenon called the Fujiwara effect where two tropical storms that get close together begin rotating around each other. Usually this ends in the two storms either merging or one dying off and making the other storms stronger.
I think we've got a Fujiwara situation developing between Hurricane Lizzie and Hurricane Grassinova. Can't wait to see how this develops. This guy's got it. And I just felt it between Fabian, Franco, and Allison, Oliver and that room talking about DJ Grassinova touring the Catholic school mixer.
Playing Florida. Playing Florida really freaked me out. That that was if it's Florida's whistle, that means this character was in high school in 2012. Yes, well, she says her yahoo name is from 2012.
That's fucked up. You're so old. Look, are you happy to see a government run group that's not a gerontocracy? Like you have to let the young people cook.
Yes, that's true. That's true. My point is that moment is just so funny and it's so endearing, you just immediately feel closer to both of those characters, even though they don't get a lot of screen time, even though they haven't done a lot of stuff. Obviously Lizzie has got a little bit of a touch with this stuff, even though she's clearly distracted by her music and her life.
And Grasso is probably thinking about ascending some sort of ladder here. I mean, this seems like what he wants to do. But their connection is gonna make whatever happens over the next couple of episodes. And I have not watched the head, but you can see in the trailers, there's shootouts, there's people being upset.
Like I'm gonna be there emotionally with them. Do you want to do your McBain-Loo forever rankings on the test force? I've got a clear plug up here. I really don't.
I'm not saying. We just might be blasting some fluoride, I feel like, in Memorial sooner or later. That's my guess. I don't like that.
I'm sorry, I'm not watching the head. But first of all, what a redemption tour for Sir Kristin Cole. He's really good in this episode. Not just in that scene, but the scene where you're talking about religion with Tom and what never made sense to him about eating was that you need on Fridays.
I thought that was a great scene. Why can I have a slice of pepperoni? I also just, what? I actually got excited about what went on behind the scenes when whether it's Jeremiah Zagar or Brad Ingalls be like pulled Fabian aside and explained high school DJ.
Like how important the DJs who played high school dances were to people growing up on the main line or Delor County. Or maybe anywhere in America and I'm sure it's true in UK as well. So it's not like some foreign concept. But like, the DJ understands DJ culture.
They're not something way before us. I think they have something to learn from Larry, the guy that ended every middle school dance by playing panic by the Smith. I'm like, just something to hang the DJ. But like, these guys were gods.
This is the Paul Oakenfold remix of Left Fields Open. Well, I thought a Paul Oakenfold of Villanova play. Yeah, but like these guys were celebrities because they came into your school and like for two hours like it was not school. So I thought that whole scene was fantastic.
Another fantastic moment for me was the last, I don't know, five or six minutes of the, actually it's quite a bit longer than that. The sequence of Maeve taking Sam back in. Okay, so that's zero in on this. Okay, so by that same token of what I'm talking about where you lay the groundwork with a fun moment or a touching moment so that when that character is put in the fucking shit, you are right there with them.
Everything you've seen Maeve do, her struggle with, I gotta get out of here, but I cannot leave these kids. And her, at once half of her wants to be young and hook up with guys and she works in a friggin arcade. Like there's a suspended childhood to her, like a suspended youth to her and just old way too fast. On the other hand, it's like watching her sort through the moral calculus of what Robbie's done, who this kid is, what his parents may have done to her family.
Which she seems to be aware of. Which she seems to be aware of. And then furthermore, like her like wanting to do the right thing but not knowing what the right thing is until like she's putting like these incredibly extreme circumstances, Amelia Jones was fantastic in this sequence. She's ugly, well, I'm so.
You also get such a sense. I know guys this is stupid, we could do this about every single thing. Everybody's got shopping plazas and like that was so real to me, the arcade next to the supermarket, next to the whatever. What's it talking about, how you felt about that sequence?
It was a beautiful expression of what the show's core conceit is, is that there's authority, there's criminality and then there's humanity and which side are you ultimately gonna end up on. Before we even get into the specifics of what time of night was this where most children are completely asleep but some children are still playing skate ball at cages? That's true. I do have a question.
The thing that I wanna start with in terms of how this whole thread unraveled was in relation to a conversation we've been having about alien earth. Now I'm not spoiling it. Good. If you're one of those people who skips around, don't worry.
We've been talking about the level of plausibility and believability in terms of a horror show where characters have to be dumb enough to like open the specimen jar or walk to the basement in order for the story to happen. But how many times, and how do you, how many times do they do it and how do you hide the ball in terms of what they're aware of and what they're not aware of? And what is driving it? Is it ultimately is a character behavior?
Or is it the story has to go this way to tell the story I wanna tell? And I thought of that when Maeve is told that this is the son of one of Robbie's colleagues and he's gonna be saying with them for a while and she's not. He's not a convincing story about Robbie but yes. And then, you know, relatively short amount of screen time later, she takes out her phone and googles everything about what she has seen and learns everything.
Yeah. This doesn't make her Sherlock Holmes or Little Unductor House but it does make her human and it is an example of a writer being like, what are the challenges but how are those challenges opportunities if I push things towards plausibility? Well, these people are smart for when it engages us. For 20 minutes, if that episode and probably in between Sunday to Sunday, what most people are thinking is how much longer can Robbie get away with essentially taking a child from a crime scene before that kid is all over the news before there are people who are like, have you seen this boy?