Welcome to The Ringer Podcast Network, I'm Liz Kelly. With the NFL season a week away and The Ringer's fantasy football coverage gearing up, we have released our first ever fantasy football hall of fame. We assembled a panel of voters including Bill Simmons, Cousin Sal, Robert Mays, Mallory Rubin, and more to induct the 25 best fantasy football players of all time. You can find the rankings by going directly to fantasyfootball.theringer.com.
And for more fantasy football coverage, check out The Fantasy Football Podcast on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Sean Fennessey. And I'm Amanda Dobbin. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about unlocking the confusing world of the Fall Film Festival.
Amanda, I wanted to have a conversation with you as we approach award season, we're not all the things that are coming. Now, I think if you were like me 10 years ago, some schmuck begging for change on the street, and you're like, the Toronto International Film Festival sounds so interesting, but I don't know how it works, I don't know how movies get in there, I don't know how it affects the award season, I'm just some guy looking at the newspaper and trying to figure out what movies are appearing there. And if you're inside this industry, or at least on the outer rim of this industry as we are, you tend to look at it a bit askance, you tend to look at it a bit cynically, and you see how these are chess pieces that are being moved around. So what I'm hoping we're going to be able to do here is talk about the movies that we're genuinely excited about, talk a little bit about how these things are programmed, how things appear, and hopefully unlock, as I mentioned, a little bit of a mystery around this stuff.
How does that sound? Sounds great, I didn't know that we needed to be cynical in this podcast. I thought this was going to be a rare, I'm excited, movie. It is, it's 100% an anticipation machine.
There's a ton of stuff, and I'll say I'm going to Telluride this week for the Telluride Film Festival, TIFF is coming very soon, the New York Film Festival is coming very soon, the AFI Film Festival is coming very soon, the New York Film Festival, there's so many things happening soon. Fantastic Fest, you up on that? That sounds familiar, but it always sounds too Comic-Chan-y, so I never let the information into my brain. What is it again?
It's in Texas, it's in Austin, and it's more genre, so it's typically more sort of like horror, thriller, less superhero IP. Before we get too far, though, something interesting happened this week, and it's sort of related to what we're talking about, which is that Netflix decided to date the wide number of films that they're releasing this fall. Now, we've known and discussed a bunch of these films, we've talked about The Irishman at length, we've talked about Marriage Story at length, we haven't talked so much about The Little Night Is My Name or The King, but there's a bunch of movies here, and now all of a sudden, they're upon us. Really soon, just this morning, we got a trailer for The Laundromat, which is a new Steven Soderbergh movie starring Meryl Streep and Gary Oldman, which in 2002 would have been the biggest thing in the history of movies, and now I guess it's just hitting a streaming service in four weeks.
Well, is it hitting the streaming service in four weeks, or is it hitting the theater in four weeks? It's a great point, it's a very great point, so I guess we need to explain a little bit of how this works, obviously, last year there was a great amount of contention around Roma, and whether Roma would, should, or could play in movie theaters before arriving on the Netflix streaming service. It sort of did. None of the big theater chains presented Roma, but some of the smaller chains did, and the same is going to be true, I think, for most of these movies on the slate, and so what you have is these windows that Netflix has created, these one week, or two week, or three week, or in a rare case, four week windows, where you have to go out AMC chain to go find these movies, or you can just wait a month and see The King, or see The Laundromat, or see Marriage Story.
How do you feel about this? Because you're always saying most people aren't going to the movies because they can just get it home soon, and this is like a very clear demarcation of that exact idea. Yeah, I think this is fascinating. I'm really excited about this, because I've been in a really rewarding email correspondence with my father for the last month about, my dad's really into the streaming wars, but somehow we wound up, like honestly, the emails that I get from him, it's just like subject line Disney at a Financial Times link, and then it says love dad, and that's it.
Dad, come on the big picture. But we have really been emailing back and forth, because he's interested in it from the business side, and I'm interested in it from the industry side. And last week, our conversation basically found its way to antitrust laws, and why Netflix can't buy a movie theater, and whether it should buy a movie theater. My understanding is that actually it can, it's not an antitrust.
They actually did buy one. They bought the Egyptian here in Los Angeles. I think that whether they can or can't buy a movie theater chain is the big issue. It's an issue.
My father, who's an actual lawyer, seemed to think that they would probably be allowed to, but deemed it financially imprudent, and basically that they, he was like, I think they correctly judged, again, my father doesn't work for Netflix, but that they judged that buying an entire movie chain would not be worth the price of winning Oscar. That's interesting. There was a lot of conversation, driven in part by the New York Times, about the Paramount case, and over the years, the way the major studios were sort of broken apart, the monopoly that they created around the movie industry, where they had what you're describing, where they owned movie theaters, and they owned the means of production, and so they monopolized the entire movie industry. There's been a lot of conversation over the years about whether Netflix was pursuing the same gambit, and the way that they have done so has been in a few different directions.
One is to obviously flood the market with tons of product, and to create a kind of heroin-like addiction to what they make every day. Another way is to drive up prices, and to overpay people, and to bring in as much talent as possible to sort of like box everyone else out. But I don't think, though, it's funny that these are the things that are driving some of that monopolistic conversation, because these are not the things I would assume that have the most audience. These are not Stranger Things.
These are not Bird Box. These are the awards prestige films. Yes. And I think that I brought up the conversation or the point that my dad was making, because it's like this story about when these movies are going to be in theaters and how long they're going to be in theaters.
You and I, and a lot of people, treat it as the clash of these two competing, these business models. But this is really the exception. The Oscars don't matter to the bottom line of either of these companies. And Netflix is trying to preserve its stranglehold on its distribution, and the movie theater change are fighting for their lives, because they are probably basically going to be extinct in five years.
They're like CDs. I love CDs, by the way. Just because I love movies. I know, you love CDs, also.
I love physical media. I love physical experiences. Just saying. I like books.
I collect books. That's my thing. Anyway, but we talk about that clash the most when it comes to these Oscar movies and how long the Oscar movies will be in theaters, but it doesn't really matter to either of them. They're just fighting over a buzzword, I think, and something that will get people's attention.
I think you're right. I've always been so fascinated by the idea of Netflix pursuing the big prize, and then what happens after they get the big prize. You know, so will the thinking change if, and we haven't seen the Irishman, and we don't know, and maybe we'll see it. It's supposed to premiere at the New York Film Festival, and maybe we'll see it before that, maybe not.
This is probably the most excited I've ever been about their slate. I think that they have five or six movies that I'm genuinely pumped for, and nevertheless, will movies like this be happening on their service in two years if the Irishman walks away with Best Picture? It's kind of hard to say, so it's kind of hard to know how seriously to take this kind of philosophical, capitalistic showdown that seems to be happening to your dad is just as interested in as we are. Right, and I think whether or not they're doing the Irishman in two years has nothing to do with how it does in the theaters, which is what's fascinating.
That's right. And we may never know how it does on streaming service. Maybe they will. They started selectively sharing streaming data in order to convince us that it's going well, and I suspect that they may share some of that throughout the Asper season to try to, like, reset Asper campaign.
Yeah, and I remember this conversation happening at a similar time. The film that sticks out in my mind from the 2018 race was 22 July, which was Paul Greengrass's portrait of, I believe, the Norwegian massacre, the shooting that happened in that country, and very serious, very difficult film. I was not a huge fan of the movie, and buried inside of a Deadline piece about the way that Netflix was running these movies out were these really gaudy streaming numbers. Tens of millions of people had watched this movie, which was really the definition of a tough set.
Just an uncomfortable and difficult movie. It was well-made, but you wouldn't want to spend your Saturday afternoon checking out the Norwegian shooting massacre. You know what I mean? I definitely did not.
And so there's always this air of dubiousness, I guess, around how many people are actually engaging with this thing that they're trying to build another kind of energy around, and that energy is, of course, awards interest. Right. We're having the business conversation and the distribution conversation, which is very separate from the how you watch a movie, how you experience art conversation. I mean, the two things are related, but we can talk about preserving the theater experience in terms of the way you connect to a movie forever, and I think you and I both feel that way.
Here's an anecdote. Last night, I decided to re-watch Snowpiercer, just because we've been talking about Director Wong and getting ready for Parasite. But it was like 9 o'clock, and I go to bed early, so I just decided to fast-forward through all the really upsetting fight scenes, which is the most disrespectful thing I've ever said out loud, and I apologize. You've already seen it.
It's okay. Yeah, but, you know, so I re-watched Snowpiercer. Did I get the full experience and the dread and the visuals? Like, no, I didn't.
I was like, oh, weird. Chris Evans was a star of this. I forgot that. That's 2014.
Strange. And then, like, moved on with my life. So we should continue to have those conversations about how you actually consume and watch, like, art. I was doing air quotes.
You can't see them on a podcast. But I think the theater negotiations is just about money. Do you think, let's say you're not invited to screenings for these films, and maybe it will be who the hell knows. But let's say you're not invited to a screening of The Laundromat.
Will you go seek out The Laundromat at the Lamley Theater in, I don't know, in Glendale, or Burbank, or where have you, here in Los Angeles, because you want to see the Soderbergh movie in theaters? I will, yes. But I'm particularly excited for that movie. It kind of takes a lot of my boxes.
Would I seek out The King? I don't know. And I'm interested in The King. I'll definitely watch it.
I would like to talk more about The King. I have some questions. We're going to talk about all these movies. Yeah, I know.
At great length. Now and in the future. But I think I like going to the movies. That is a ritual, a part of my life.
And I am interested in certain directors and things, so I will always seek them out. Again, it's like the amusement park experience. Or going to see a band that you like, you go, it's an event. It's something that you maybe don't go as frequently as you used to, but for things that matter, sure.
Yeah, I agree. I think that you and I have both gotten into a little bit of a lazy Sunday afternoon moviegoing habit, where my gym happens to be literally right on top of the arc like Hollywood. And so, inevitably, I go to the gym, and then I just go sit in and we did it for two and a half hours to cool down. Yeah, my husband has introduced something called Twilight Golf into our lives, which, like, that's It looks a lot like The Informant, which is Steven Soderbergh's portrait of another financial scandal in American history, and it's written by the same guy, Scott C.
Burns, who also has another movie coming out later this year with Amazon called The Report, which is also a docudrama. Scott C. Burns has a certain kind of interest in the mistakes and nefarious deeds of people in American history. As I said, it also stars Meryl Streep.
I'm pretty excited about this. This is also Meryl Streep's Aaron Brockovich, in a way. It has that vibe. And I don't know if you've seen the promo photo, but it's still they've been using as Meryl Streep in a bucket hat, investigating the fan club papers.
And let me just go ahead and say, I'm against bucket hats. This content can be gotten elsewhere, but the one case in which you are allowed to wear a bucket hat in 2019 is if you're Meryl Streep in the laundromat. I'm psyched. Detective Meryl is making a comeback from the Pickle of Live Days.
You'd love to see it, truly. I don't know what else to say. I think it's fun that Antonio Banderas is in this movie, too. He's about to be in the Oscar conversation for the next six months for Pain and Glory, the Amo de Var film.
So after not seeing Antonio Banderas for a solid 10 years, he's now in two of the most anticipated movies of the fall. That's very strange. This movie does have, what is it, a three-week window, a two-week window? It's not the full month.
So when it hits on the 27th, people will be able to see it at some point in October. I want to say three weeks. Three weeks. I want to talk about Dole of Mind as my name.
Okay. I've been hearing about this movie for a long time. It's directed by Craig Brewer, who made Hustle and Flow, and it stars Eddie Murphy as Rudy Ray Moore. This is kind of a biopic.
Rudy Ray Moore is the comedian slash kind of joke musician and star of the Dole of Mind films. Eddie Murphy has not been doing a whole lot lately. It was announced earlier this week that he's going to be hosting Saturday Night Live for the first time in over 30 years. Yeah, that was the flashing light Oscar, Oscar, Oscar to me.
That's exactly where I was going. Yes. Now, I don't know what to make of this movie. We've seen the trailer.
It looks fun. It's got a great cast. The Eddie Murphy Oscar campaign out of the Netflix movie sounds like a tough road to hoe to me. Sounds like it'll be challenging because Eddie doesn't like to do a lot of this stuff.
You kind of have to prostrate yourself before the voting bodies. And Eddie Murphy's really rich, and he's really sure of himself. He's really confident. And he hasn't spent a lot of time in the last 10 years putting himself in front of people.
And we've honestly seen this movie before with Dreamgirls, and he didn't get what he wanted out of that. Right. What do you think is going to happen there? I guess more generally, are you interested in Dole of Mind as my name?
I'm interested in the Eddie Murphy of it all. And here I am. And it's also going to the heart of his fan base. And I think Bill almost had a heart attack when that was announced.
He's very excited. Yeah, in a great way. So I wonder if they will try to invent kind of an Eddie Murphy-specific campaign and doing those high-value targets. I think that this is the kind of thing that the Academy loves in terms of someone late in their career coming back out of nowhere or who you haven't seen in a while.
Absolutely. It's just, in a lot of ways, I can really see it aligning. Yeah, the other thing that I think makes this a really notable Oscar movie is it's written by Scott Alexander and Larry Karaszewski. Now, one, Larry Karaszewski is one of the members of the administration of the Academy.
He's on the board of governors. Two, he's a tremendous advocate for movies. He's a great follower on Twitter. If you love movies and movie history, he has a lot to share.
Three, those are the guys who wrote The People vs. OJ. Those are also the guys who wrote movies like Ed Wood and The People vs. Larry Flint.
They have a long track record of successful, slightly askew docudrama that has gotten awards attention in the past. Martin Landau, of course, won the Best Supporting Actor for his work in Ed Wood. Ed Norton and Woody Harrelson, I believe, were both nominated for The People vs. Larry Flint.
They're in good hands here. And Craig Brewer also was recognized for a lot of his work for Hustle & Flow. So there's a lot of pieces in place. This movie is premiering at TIFF.
We won't see it on Netflix until October 21st. It's hitting theaters, quote-unquote, October 4th. This is a very interesting case to me. Would anybody go see this movie in a movie theater?
I'm not even sure it has the same level of emotional necessity that the laundromat might have as a movie theater experience. Even watching the trailer, I was like, this kind of looks like a really cool TV movie, which is not a diss. It's just different. So can you engineer an Oscar nomination out of that?
I think it's a fascinating test case. I agree. I just don't think it matters whether people actually do go see it in the theaters. You know?
You're right. So they just have to be in the theaters so that they're eligible for an Oscar. You know what comes after that one? Does it have to do with your ancestors in any way?
Who am I? The King? Oh, I thought you were going to that. Well, no.
The King oppressed my ancestors. I suppose The King technically, yeah. If we're going all the way back. If we're going back to the sub-1000 era.
Yeah. 1000 AD, that's when my ancestors and the English were really working together. I have no idea at this point where we are. I also don't know too much about your 23andMe results, which is a third podcast, but anyway.
Yeah, please subscribe to my Patreon for that. The King comes out October 11th from David Michaud, who is the director of movies like The Rover and Netflix's somewhat aligned War Machine. He was on the show actually for War Machine. That was probably the first movie that seemed like an authentic bid for prestige consideration, coming from somebody like Michaud, who had worked with A24, produced by Plan B, starring Brad Pitt.
The King has got Timothee Chalamet. He's playing Henry V, is that correct? Yeah. And he's playing him in different phases.
It's a combination of the King Henry V Shakespearean works, right? I believe so. I was going to ask you this because I knew that he was playing Henry V and then I watched the trailer and then I was like, okay, so this is just subversive Henry V? Yeah.
Are they using the actual text? Is Timothee Chalamet going to do the hipster of St. Crispin's Day speech? Or is it just a comment on those texts and the history?
Because this is also the place where the Shakespeare plays are in fact the history. They're so close to the events that they mythologize to all these characters. Yeah, so I guess it's working off of Henry IV Part I, Henry IV Part II, and Henry V. There's obviously a very famous Henry V adaptation by Kenneth Branagh, which is quite a good film.
And this one I think is a wider in scope. What that's actually going to mean and whether they will be sort of fiddling with the details of history is unclear to me. The movie is written by Michaud and also Joel Edgerton, who is his Australian collaborator on films like Animal Kingdom. And I don't know what to expect.
There's some question about whether there is a... romance in the film based on a shot that people are seeing if they couldn't tell if it was Lily Rose Depp or Robert Pattinson. Robert Pattinson is in this film. It also features Joel Edgerton and Ben Mendelsohn.
He's also a long-time issue collaborator. So I don't know if they're just sticking to the cortex or if they're kind of fucking with the history a little bit. I can't figure it out. I have a hard time imagining because Robert Pattinson is playing the heir of France in France, right?
Yeah, so they're going to really have to twist history in order to get Prince Hal and the Dauphin in a romance, but maybe they don't actually. I'm not a scholar of that era, so. I will say Joel Edgerton is a very unlikely fall staff. Yeah, I mean, that's kind of what I'm saying is that are they trying to undermine all of the goofiness and the band brother's inspiration that is kind of that Henry V story.
If anybody's interested in Henry V story, I'm going to recommend a movie. Please write this down. It's called Chimes at Midnight. It's an Oscar.
It's an Orson Welles movie in which Orson Welles plays fall staff. He wrote and directed this movie too. For years, it was out of print and hard to find. I think it was released in the mid-60s and it was released, I guess, a few years ago on Blu-ray, probably on iTunes at this point too.
Incredible movie. Incredible. Like, possibly his third best movie after Citizen Kane and Such a Evil. If you're interested in Henry V, check this movie out.
I would guess it's going to be a little bit better than The King. That's all I'm going to say. Okay. After that comes to the Irishman.
Here we go. Here we go. I don't know. You know, it shows me already.
I've been reading about this movie for three years. It's three and a half hours, Amanda. I saw that. I have no comment.
What if it's a great three and a half hours? It could be. You know, like, once I was in Hollywood, it was two hours and 40 minutes and I was like, give me more. Yeah.
It's like really long. It is. It is very long. It is unusually long.
I just started going into survival tactics of like, what snacks am I bringing? When am I going to the bathroom? What time of day is best for me to be able? Like, what yoga stretches will I do before and after to deal with the terrible seats?
And I just, I don't really feel like I need to be thinking about my health and well-being throughout the run of your movie. Let me give you some data points. You ready? Love data points.
Three hours and 15 minutes. You know how long the movie I'm referring to, that link? No. Titanic.
Three hours and 17 minutes. Do you know the movie? The English Patient? The English Patient is actually...
It's close. Not here. It's on this list. Three hours and 17 minutes is Schindler's list.
Three hours and 20 minutes. I don't know. Another movie made by a male director. The Lord of the Rings.
The Return of the King. Yeah, that's fine. Three hours and 22 minutes. The Godfather Part 2.
Three hours and 44 minutes. Ben-Hur. Three hours and 48 minutes. Lawrence of Arabia.
Three hours and 56 minutes. Bances with Wolves. Three hours and 58 minutes. Bances with Wolves should not have been on a plane.
You know, I agree with you, right? I agree with that. You know, I just don't think that we should confuse length with quality. No one should do that across any medium.
I agree. I am a person who believes in brevity and in getting things right. I don't believe in excess fat. I believe in editing.
I believe in valuing other people's time. And I cannot go three hours and 30 minutes without a bathroom break. So those are my concerns. I get it.
The flip side is, I sit through so many movies every year. Like 300 movies a year. 275 of them. I'm like, I'm supposed to end.
I just wish this would be over now. I'd like to have a long one. How long is silence? That was long too.
That's the longest long movie of my life. That movie will have inevitably a different energy other than the Irishman, which is kind of him more in his wheelhouse that people, I think, have a little bit more of a popcorn passion. Sure. Here's my thing.
I said this to you earlier in life. I love movies. Really into movies right now. Really feeling it.
Very excited about the movie season when they release all the good movies. And we're just like, yeah, movies. And I've also been thinking a lot about that with respect to TV shows where I'm just basically out on TV except for succession. I'm post-TV.
And one of the reasons I'm post-TV is just because it keeps going. And I'm just like, I wish this were over. You're on the fourth season of what? I absolutely not.
And so I need movies to respect their great power, which is freaking ending. You know, respect the power that you have and use it. The Irishman will end at some point. I anticipate greatly getting a chance to see it and then getting the chance to see the entire film without doing any yoga stretches.
A couple more movies, I guess. Atlantics was a film, a foreign film that debuted at Cannes. There's a movie on here called Earthquake Bird Starring, which I had never heard of. It's directed by Washington Westmoreland, who I believe was one of the filmmakers who worked on Still Alice.
There's The Two Popes. Yes. Which is interesting to me. It's a little under the radar at the moment.
That movie's written by Anthony Carton, who also wrote Darkest Hour. So I think we can expect that kind of energy directed by Fernando Morellis who made it say you've got. And it stars Jonathan Pryce and Anthony Hopkins as two popes, the titular popes. Yes, and they're literal popes and not sports popes or other popes.
They're not sports popes, nor are they new popes. They're truly historical figures. Do you think they are popes? Who fuck?
It's really, it's an open question. If there was pope fucking in this movie, I would be greatly surprised. I'm not expecting it. That would be a really twist on the historical data.
And then Marriage Story. Yeah. Sign me up. I'm in.
Let's go. Saw the trailer. I was like, yes, put it inside me. Fill me up.
Okay. Yeah. I feel the same way. I just think it's going to be a real emotional journey for all of us.
And that's fine. We're all going to get to know each other by talking about Marriage Story. Absolutely. Bring it to your bucket.
No question. Have you heard Bill threatening the Cramer vs. Cramer rewatchables? Yes.
For all the CODs here to ring her. Me, you, Matt, and Bill. Yes. The Divorce Club, as we are known here.
And he and I were talking about Marriage Story, and then he also brought up Marriage Story versus Cramer. So that may be the most dispiriting, but also emotional experience that the four of us have had since our parents got divorced. God, I hope it's not that. That's a little troubling.
For anyone who's not been listening to this show, Marriage Story, of course, is no bound back's tale. I guess somewhat semi-autobiographical tale of going through a divorce while having children. It just looks renty and very good. I'm just a long-time sucker for his movies.
And it'll be interesting to see the efforts that Netflix puts forward to kind of help everyone remember slash reevaluate if you believe he is or is not a great American filmmaker. Obviously, you and I do. We love a lot of his movies. Absolutely.
I think that's the whole lot. Of Netflix movies. There's so many. It's a lot.
It's a pretty good bunch. I would say there's a high level of anticipation for at least four of these movies and a curiosity factor about the rest. So we'll see what happens. They've already got a whole bunch of other stuff in motion for next year.
They bumped The Last Thing He Wanted, D. Reese's movie, to 2020, starring Anne Hathaway, based on a John Diddy novel. So that'll be interesting, too. One would assume that that goes into the awards conversation for the following year, so it's not like they're not already loaded up again.
Should we talk about the Fall Festival Anticipation Index? I'd love to. I made on my list, as you asked. I love to ask and receive homework.
I asked you for five movies that are premiering at Venice, Telluride, TIFF, or the New York Film Festival. And all of these festivals are going to be basically concluded by mid-October. By mid-October, we usually know, I think we have a rough idea what the 12 real contenders are for the Oscars. Do you think that there is more than one movie that we've already seen that has a chance at the Oscars?
We know the ones on the time in Hollywood. The Farewell's a big question, right? We talked about that several times on this podcast. There's a lot of stuff here that makes me think The Farewell's going to have a tough time.
Well, the flip side is, I just think they did a perfect rollout for The Farewell, and that campaign has been, like, Wafina, if it all brings it to a younger Instagram generation that is possibly not voting for Oscars, but in terms of making sure that people see it, making sure that people understand what it is, and what role it would play in the Oscars season this year, and making sure that people remember it now, what, a month, almost two months after it's come out? Yeah, I think it's been about six weeks. I think that they are doing very well, and I mean, that's not surprising at age 24, but I remain optimistic. I think that's reasonable.
I think it does really have to go toe-to-toe with 15-plus movies, some of which are from Terrence Malick that could be contenders, some of which are from Todd Phillips making a superhero villain movie that could be a contender, so it's a really, it's a wide swath this year. The one thing that is missing, I think, and then we'll get right into our anticipation, I don't know if there's any blockbusters here, and I think the Oscars should be a little worried about that. You don't think there are any blockbusters in the festival list, or just on the... Well, I think the festival list, with the exception of Cats, and, I mean, I guess Star Wars, The Rise of Skywalker, and Little Women, those are the three that have a chance to be big movies that are not going to be at the fall festivals, that could draw major attention to the Oscars.
None of those three are a lock. Certainly, I mean, Cats could be a fiasco. It's really hard to say how that's going to turn out. Skywalker, who knows?
Is it hard to say? Anyway. We were definitely talking about that movie a lot here, so I'm not worried about getting to that, but a lot of the stuff that is here is very interesting, and the fall festivals don't usually launch blockbusters, but, you know, I don't see a Bohemian Rhapsody at the moment, there's certainly not a Black Panther at the moment, and I think that there's probably not a Star is Born. No, Star is Born hit a tip last year, and then took off like a rocket in the first week of October, and became one of the movie sensations of the year.
So, as we talk about these movies, I'm really stoked for Ford vs. Ferrari. I don't know if that movie's going to do $400 million in business, and if it doesn't, fewer people are going to care about the Oscars, at least that's been my theory for years. So, I'm kind of fascinated by that, as I've been kind of compiling all my lists.
Yeah, I don't disagree with you, and I didn't even notice in my list that they are a different Amanda type of movie, but I just have a lot of people talking in rooms movies, which I'm psyched about, but that's even different from a Star is Born, which still had movie stars and big concert set pieces, and was like a big, loud movie. So, there is that aspect of it. It does feel like a different movie here. It is also like nothing to blockbuster anymore, so that's just kind of baked into the conversation, and I think, I don't think you're wrong that having smaller movies means that fewer people will watch it.
I just kind of feel like we're there, and we just have to set different definitions and expectations of what Oscars are, what the movie industry is. I mean, we are going to be forced to redefine what the movie industry is. So, in the last few weeks, I just kind of felt like, oh, we're here at the change that we have been anticipating for so many years, and I think we're going to hear. I agree.
The kind of movie that could have been a Star is Born-like hit is the Irishman. You know, that's the kind of movie. The Departed was a big movie hit. It was a big mainstream.
A lot of folks went on a Friday night to see it, and this movie, even though a ton of people are going to see it, probably more than have seen perhaps any Scorsese movie ever, which sounds ludicrous to say, but given the amount of subscribers that Netflix has and the way they're going to be platforming that movie, just in terms of sheer eyeballs, they may reach more people than ever before. But it's not the same. Somehow, it's not the same energy. And so, I guess I'll just say one really obvious and rude thing, but The Departed had Leonardo DiCaprio and Matt Damon.
Sure. And this is... The movie's got Joe Pesci. What are you talking about?
Pesci is back. There's a generational thing that I'm trying to highlight here. Yeah, no, there's no doubt. You think Anna Paquin heads are not coming through?
I don't know. Okay, because we'll just have to wait and see. Give me your number five anticipated film. Okay.
I just want to say, I did a top five as requested. I also have categories for honorable mention and curious about. Just, you know, I want to share those original categories. I'd like to share mine as well for honorable mention and curious about.
Great. Not in my top five, but, you know, put it inside me, just like all the other movies. That's Invenison Tiff. Yes.
What's number... I guess I'll do my number five, which is Uncut Gems, which is maybe going to be a Telluride. The thing about Telluride is, is that we don't know what's on the lineup until the day before. So, I'll be on a plane, headed to Montrose, Colorado, and then I'll find out what movies I'll be seeing.
It is not in any of my three categories, but I hope for you and for your Telluride experience that it is a Telluride. I know it means a lot to you. I mean, there's just too many things in this movie for it not to be very important to me. One, of course, is Adam Sandler, a person who I always want to make good movies, even though he insists on not making them frequently.
The Saffy Brothers, who's the movies I love, you know, Kevin Garnett's in this movie, Lekeith Stanfield, our sports pope, my princesses in this movie, Erika Ghosn, Idina Menzel. Okay, why is Idina Menzel in this movie? I know she's a Jewish queen. She is.
And I think that's what she's playing in the film. I think she plays Samuel's wife. It's shot by Darius Kanji, who is really one of the great living cinematographers. He shot Okja, he shot Velocity of Z, he shot The Immigrant, he's worked with James Ray quite a bit.
He shot Panic Room, he's like a straight-up genius, so this movie's gonna look great. Can I ask you a question? Of course. Do movies like this, like, give you any sort of existential angst just in a sense of, like, it's so for you and has so many of your things that it's a little strange?
And, like, maybe, do you feel like you're part of a community when you see something like this? Or do you feel like, oh, my tastes are not my own? Ah, wow, that's complicated. The latter part of that is really complicated.
I think it mostly makes me feel like Thanos. Great. Where it's like, of course my plan worked. Of course the design was perfect.
I've arrived at this moment just as I imagined I always would. I am inevitable. I don't want to acknowledge that Thanos is part of it, but I think the rest of that is pretty true. So, congratulations.
You're right, though. In my darkest hour, I may struggle with realizing what it means to get exactly what you want. I think we all struggle with getting exactly what we want. And maybe I won't like the movie.
Maybe I won't be what I want at all. But anyway, that's my number five is my chance. I'm really looking forward to that movie. Number four.
This seems disrespectful. This is number four. The truth. I'm so excited about this.
So this is from Hirokazu Kariyeda, who obviously did Shop Lichers. And Catherine Deneuve, Julia Pinoche, Ethan Hawke. And I believe the plot is that Catherine Deneuve plays an actress who writes a memoir and then her daughter Julia Pinoche is mad about it. Or I don't know if she's mad.
Who knows what happens? All sorts of screwed up things. I was just like, oh, my God. You should watch this movie at a higher belief.
I know. And again, like, your tastes are not your own. I was just like, Jesus. I know.
This is his first film outside of Japan. And Kariyeda, of course, total genius. The Shop Lichers one of the best movies of the year last year. I'm very excited about this as well.
I don't know. I guess this is going to be at Venice and TIFF, I presume. I don't know what kind of release we're going to get. I don't even know a 2019 movie.
Is that possible? We'll have to prepare for that. That's going to be true for some of the stuff we'll talk about here. Especially some of the sort of curious stuff.
Some stuff has distribution, some doesn't. Some have defined dates that they're coming out. Some don't. Like, there's some movies that are in the kind of Green Book or Stars Born execution, like Hustlers, which is coming out very soon, but it's premiering at the Toronto Film Festival.
And then there are others that we're not totally sure where they're going to go. The truth actually is apparently still privacy. Oh, great. Okay.
So then we more than likely will see it this year. I don't know how that will work for a foreign film if it will be submitted from France, from Japan. Kind of hard to say. I would suspect also that Portrait of a Lady on Fire, which is probably in my top 10, though not my top 5, which is Selene Skiyama's movie, which is a more than likely going to be the French international film submission.
So we'll have to see what happens with the truth. I'm talking about that one, too. My number four is Ford vs. Ferrari.
I've talked about it a bunch. I don't think they're really much more. James Mangold, the director I love. Two tremendous movie stars.
Period piece. It's going to look great. It's going to feel great. I really like James Mangold.
I like the movie stars. It feels real scary to me. Very scary. In the positive and negative sense of that as well.
So I will see how it comes out. I think that there's a very interesting Once Upon a Time in Hollywood kind of double feature there about two guys at the end of an era who represent something, who are losing something, feeling a fault, you know, between their fingers. Very American. Anyway, I'm just putting that out there.
You know, for those of you who are looking forward to your essay, please file it before 11 at night so that when I edit it, I have some time to actually get some notes. I'm just here for my repertory brethren who need to book double features. If the Metrograph is listening, please go ahead and grab that one. Number three.
You mentioned this last week with Wesley. This is going to be a TIFF. This is Ryan Johnson's movie. Now, in a just world, this actually is one of those kinds of movies we're talking about that is like pop and also maybe even an Oscar movie.
I don't know if it's going to be. Probably not. I don't think so because this is like a, I'm part of a community. This is like my interest set, but I'm also aware that it is so my interest set that it's probably not other people's.
And I just feel lucky that Ryan Johnson wanted to make a murder mystery with Daniel Craig and Chris Evans. Thank you, Ryan Johnson. Thank you, Ryan Johnson. appreciate you this is uncut dobbins yeah congrats so it'll be great i'm excited um what am i number three i guess marriage story wow my number three is kind of it's kind of waving around a little bit okay um where's marriage we're gonna be at not if not at number three number two or number one okay it's very high on my list i'm very very excited yeah okay what's number two for you parasite yeah you know i was supposed to see a couple weeks ago i missed it i still haven't seen it i think i'll see this weekend i mean i am extremely excited me too um a colleague of ours i won't name him i do believe i legally downloaded this film and watch it do that i mean i'm disrespectful enough to fast forward there's no fear sir but i'm gonna go see parasite parasite in a goddamn theater and be excited yeah i showed the trailers my wife and she got very very excited by the hitchcock vibes too it's got a real kind of paranoia thriller thing going on so that's great i wrote down to dark waters which is a movie that we have not yet discussed on this show dark waters is a new film from former big picture guest todd haynes and there's been a great pair of mystery around this movie for a long time um i think it's because it didn't really have a title i think it only arrived at the dark waters title officially like oh this movie a couple of weeks ago so i mean here's the log line on the movie which is coming from focus a corporate defense attorney takes on an environmental lawsuit against a chemical company that exposes a lengthy history of pollution now that is not the description of a movie that you would think would come from todd haynes it's not really his style to do a kind of i don't know issues oriented docudrama now i guess if you think kind of thematic in the middle of the movie it's much different our house much more personalized vision the movie stars mark ruffalo and hathaway among a whole bunch of other people tim robbins and victor garber and bill camp i think it's just a curiosity factor that has it so high on my list and there is a like look out for this as the dark horse winner because it's going to be about something that's going to be quote-unquote important right so maybe not and i love hawkins's movies but even aside from the general aesthetic interest i have i'm just sort of fascinated to see how this hits is there a release plan in terms of when it is coming out i believe it's november 22nd which is very oscar-y as well yes that was right around the bohemian rhapsody kind of release time though i'm curious whether mysterious release works at all for movies anymore like it is the end of august and i knew that mark ruffalo and hathaway were in a todd hans movie that we didn't know a lot about but even i had to have that moment jogged like oh that movie and is it are you too late in late august it's a really good question i mean we can look at what the thanksgiving slates can be the 22nd and 27th of november these are the movies that are coming out 21 bridges not an oscar movie but a shadow chosen movie a beautiful day in the neighborhood of course which is also premiering at tiff dark waters frozen 2 knives out queen and slam which is a movie that is uh i think premiering is a kickoff movie at afi um melina matsuka's new movie and the two posts all those movies are all coming out within five days of each other that's pretty noisy and you gotta cut through to kind of emerge and i think you kind of need three to four to five months of name recognition and anticipation just to get people to see your movie at this point i completely agree it's gonna be a challenge for them but you know and hathaway's famous todd hans is the master there is always one like oh you gotta see this exactly um number one marriage story hands down i mean yeah i don't need to share anymore now because i'm gonna share too much in the coming months i'm extremely excited if i see it on friday or saturday should i say nothing that's a great question you're not too bad about spoiling things i respect spoiler culture um i guess i don't imagine like how would one spoil marriage story well i mean that's the thing is the only way that you could spoil it is i would think like i was like devastated by it or i wasn't as devastated or connected to it as i wanted to be and either will affect how i experienced it so don't tell me anything what if thanos shows up in the after credit sequence i will honestly be impressed that no bob eck sold out that much so and i hope that he bought like an extra nice townhouse with that money my number one is waves which is a movie that wesley morris raved about here on the show last week trevor schultz's third film um it stars levis hedges and stern k brown it is not a musical which is something we were led to believe for a long time but apparently it's just more a story of a family and something traumatic that happens to that family almost immediately after we recorded that podcast last week 824 announced the release date and the fact there will be festivals and that is now officially a part of the for lack of a better term award season wave wesley he knows what he's talking about um you know i'm stoked i'm pretty sure it's gonna tell you right you know no one's confirmed that but it certainly seems like it's obviously gonna happen it's also gonna be a tiff we should say dark waters is gonna be a tiff america story i think it's doing the trifecta i would guess it'll be a telluride and it will definitely be a venison tiff uncut gems telluride probably n tiff or versus ferrari probably telluride tiff parasite probably telluride tiff they're hitting all the spots it's happening it's happening um there's a few other there's actually a lot of other movies here on the list i mean i just made like a running list for us to look at and there's a lot of stuff that i think you're gonna get this i'm interested yeah i told you i have honorable mention i'll tell you my honorable mentions absolutely i honestly thought about putting this in the top five i i love james gray and then the brad pitt moment just you know i want to i'm living in it i want to swim in it it's just this is fantastic the pit pool yeah uh hustlers i'm excited about that saw it and loved it can't wait jojo rabbit yeah this is probably number six for me i'm fascinated i don't really know what to expect but there's been a little bit of like bullshit controversy around it already because people don't get tech white tv tone sometimes um i'm looking for that that'll definitely a tiff i don't think it's gonna be a telluride um as i said hustlers will be a tiff and then also my honorable mention is pain and glory because everything i've heard is that it is both peak Antonio Banderas and like really major Almodovar which is exciting yeah it's been a few years since we had a major Almodovar film and this one sounds super autobiographical i think it was literally about a filmmaker who's past his prime so that'll be exciting i've heard a couple other ones i certainly am quite fascinated by motherless brooklyn and i'll definitely be seeing it so that's something you're curious about uh yeah yeah i mean i'm looking forward to it i'm a long time at norton stand like going back to high school i was like this is the guy like we got our brando when he hit the scene so i've always been a believer that's what i'll say i would like to quote a stand down seat tweet here but i won't so let's just keep going well you guys can go hunt that down for yourselves what else is in your um what's i guess curious about so the king is i'm curious about wasp network which i think that the just the u.s release is still undetermined yes our um our friend and blog expert also starring melby cruz yes um do you know about burnt or interesy did you read about this can you let's break it down a little bit i didn't put it on the list but yeah speaking of just kind of like the tic-tac-toe of interest so this movie is directed by an italian director giuseppe capotondi i did my best um but starring in it uh clay spang i don't know how to apologize yes pronounced that correctly lizabeth micky donald sutherland mick jagger filmed on lake como in italy and is about an art heist an underworld i was just like wow did i not make this up someone else did i can't make it to your top that's only in venice right yeah i don't know enough about it it was one of these things where i was going through the list i believe it's closing venice yeah and i was like oh i wonder what this is about been investigated well they do like to close the italian film it's possible i don't know a lot of the filmmakers work so i'm not an expert that's that is an interesting cast we've been a minute since mick jagger's been in the film yeah you like mick jagger's an actor sure okay um i'm curious about a lot of stuff i'm very curious about first cow kelly records in the movie and hopefully i'll see that over the weekend um you know i'm definitely curious about losing this guy which i know that you did not have a strongly positive reaction to i have not seen the full trailer because i started the trailer and i heard natalie portman's southern accent and i turned it off you know what i am not i don't pull that i'm southern card very often i don't know what that shit was also did she have to be southern i think it was based on a true story about the woman who fell in love with another astronaut i remember the sensational story but i think that we could it's a film we can take some license so that natalie portman doesn't have to embarrass herself with this accent i thought she sounded great uh i'm on the record by natalie portman she's a queen i think that she's also a queen but she's not this kind of queen yeah it could be a stretch as i said to you in private the premise of this movie is i really want to fuck john ham so i think that's gonna work out okay that's just my thing that's from noah holly who people may know as the creator of fargo and um the tv series and is i guess relatively unproven as a film director so this will be a test desire is what i think of when i think of his work or frankly natalie portman's oeuvre maybe it's ultimately not about desire okay well um what else is on this list here you know there's a bunch of movies i don't know a whole lot about but i've seen mentioned quite a bit the climb is one of those movies this is a cycling drama um that was made independently apparently it's quite good there's a lot of good buzz about it uh seberg which is a john seberg uh biopic kind of about the uh actress played by christian stewart who's kind of ensnared in fbi scandal in the 1960s sure yeah why not um have you followed a bunch of the conversation on the aeronauts no but that's the i was about to say it's a tom hooper movie but it's not but it just feels like it would be just so disrespectful but it is that's cats uh i know unfortunately it's eddie redmayne and felicity jones back together again correct uh this is a movie that amazon is releasing the release date has moved around a couple of times it's meant to be a big grand scale widescreen adventure it's an imax movie they're hot air balloonists sure i don't know yes that sounds right the movie i think is going to amazon two weeks after it's released in theaters so we had this conversation amazon started with this too the same will be true of the report the movie they're releasing in november 15th i think two weeks later it's hitting amazon prime so amazon is shrinking the windows even further and limiting the box office potential of their films but a movie that is about hot air balloon adventures in imax on amazon prime google it two notes number one the director is actually tom harper so i wasn't that far off and i sincerely apologize to tom harper sorry tom and uh number two it's clearly a survivalist hot air balloon drama oh so i don't know how that changes the visual scope of it though it's just like maybe them i don't know like weaving baskets for two hours which would make more sense on an amazon screen that sounds terrible also apparently there's a scientific experiment element to it okay here's the thing i basically don't believe i don't care about theatrical windows because people aren't going to go if someone's going to go see it in a movie theater they're going to go see it in a movie theater now and if they're not they're not in the watch it at home and i just theatrical windows are something that is made up by the theater company lobbies in order to protect their business and they have every right to protect their business because otherwise it definitely would not exist anymore but like who cares why why wouldn't amazon make it available to as many people as quickly as possible i agree i mean that made a lot of sense for the report because i think the desire to get them in front of a lot of people for a long period of time and there was some there was some feeling like black canter for example being available to you on itunes or on netflix when voting was happening was meaningful i guess we're just we're in kind of in between stages of stuff you know i think the concern is that ultimately amazon would just not make it available in theaters because they own it and they don't it's they don't need that money and they're probably losing money putting it in theaters in some respects and and that's a loss if everyone if all the companies who own this stuff just decide that it will no longer be available in theaters but we're already kind of operating on their goodwill to an extent anyway of what how they decide they want to release it anyway so you know we just have to hope that they continue to do it in ways that that we enjoy a couple of more movies just mercy just mercy is also i think in that category of like could this come out of nowhere and win it all uh there was a pre-fall festival screening of the movie this week i did not attend this movie stars uh michael b jordan and brie larson and is about brian stevenson the civil rights attorney and it's directed by daniel dessen crenton who made short term 12 and who is the forthcoming director of marvel's shang chi also a docudrama also about a meaningful issue also a little bit of a mysterious rollout going on here this movie's gonna get tiff and i think it comes out in december i think it's a christmas release i've seen it percolating a little bit i'm curious yeah you know i don't think we're we're not forging new land here by saying that this might be an oscar movie but it feels like we haven't talked about a whole heck of a lot but i sense an energy building around it so we'll put a pin in that and we'll talk about it closer and then the last thing is joker oh god i actually have forgotten that we didn't talk about it there's a new joker trailer today this is todd phillips is something something is it a reimagining is it a continuation is it a reboot is it a sequel is it a holy original tale i don't know i don't know stars walking phoenix as a guy who wants to be called joker that's all i know yeah it's premiering a tiff it is that's let me let me say something one todd phillips are from the same town two he's made a lot of good movies that i like three most of them don't look like joker but that's okay i like somebody going out of their comfort zone trying something new and he's been edging towards darkness you may recall war dogs jonah hill miles teller 2015 i don't know that i recall it but now that you say it exists somewhere in the back of my brain that's a movie that was sold as a comedy but it's much darker than that if you watch it and also features one of all-time flex bradley cooper cameos um you know at a minimum i'm curious i would say for the movie itself i'm i guess i'm curious i mean i think walking phoenix is a great actor some of those todd phillips movies are funny i'm also just kind of like why why are we doing this he literally did this 10 years ago and he fledger like won an oscar for it it seems even within the realm of we reboot things all the time and everyone adds their comment and superheroes are like modern mythology or whatever this seems a little soon so it's a movie i'm curious i'm wholly interested in the discourse i essentially don't want to participate and it's difficult because we have this podcast but well whether i think for the most part you won't have to participate unless it has that kind of whiz bang holy shit this movie is an oscar contender feeling out of tiff which is possible it's possible that people see it and they're like my preconceived notions have been shattered or they've been exceeded and this is now officially an important movie this year and then we got we got five months of it yeah i that's one of the ones where i don't trust those people i will determine that when i see it which i will see it what do you think it's going to audience award at toronto oh it's always something like terrible right well i think the last five best picture winners have been tiff audience winners right but that means well no three billboard no uh shape of water uh no but i believe that three billboards did win at toronto you're right they've all been nominated excuse me yes um so what is the movie that has a simplified understanding of american politics that will be a diaspora controversy all year long because that's what will win the audience award i really don't know from this group of films it's very hard to say i mean four versus ferrari is the kind of movie that could win it's kind of flashy it's kind of throwback you know i don't think i think joker's actually quite divisive so i don't see that happening yeah it's really hard i mean maybe a movie like knives out i don't think necessarily shotguns it into into the um oscar conversation but that could be a crowd pleaser of a sort yeah i mean maybe this is a place where parasite gets a chance to get in there probably not i mean here are the winners of recent years last year's green book of course year before that was three billboards year before that was la la land year before that was room year before that was imitation game 12 years of slave silver linings playbook you know that's almost 10 years of lockdown best picture nominees and in some cases winners you know yeah i could see something quieter like even marriage story going for this because marriage story is ultimately about divorce and like you and i are talking about how it's this our personal story but what like half of the world now at this point can relate to that central narrative in some way and i think that has value in an audience award i don't know we'll just have to wait and see we gotta send a quick shout out to one other thing premiering at the toronto international film festival which is briar patch shout out to any greenwald co-host of the watch close pal of ours showrunner and creator of briar patch a forthcoming television show that is premiering at tiff mind-blowing shit it's amazing i did you see the animal that's in the trailer there were a couple i thought there's a key one there's a giraffe my favorite animal and also someone golfing with something that's not a golf ball yeah i just i wish nothing but the best for briar passion for any i hope to win some awards um any parting thoughts about the fall festival culture well so you said the award season has not started yet but what is it third is it friday um well it starts for the big picture next wednesday which is when you and i will be doing the first episode of the oscar show though honestly this was really an oscar show um but yeah we'll kick off the oscar show again we'll bring back some of the categories and the approaches that we do i'll tell you guys all about the stuff i saw tell your ad when i thought i'll tell him what you shouldn't should not see what will in return what will delay her i won't listen to any of it but that's fine i'm my own woman um i guess you're probably right it probably begins precisely tomorrow when film starts screening at bennis that is when it all officially starts going down can i just share something that i feel about this i decided that i'm really into just all the movies being good at the same time i know we complained about it all year long and we spent like the last nine months being like they don't release any good movies even though they have released some movies that we really enjoyed but it's exciting it's like movie season it's like back to school we're gonna focus all our attention for a few months and everyone's gonna talk about it and i am excited i'm pro the consolidation this will be a portal of positivity and enthusiasm and maybe slight skepticism is there any movie that's gonna emerge i guess we won't know the answer to this as the life of 2019 i already said where to go bernadette but we saw that we're still talking about i know but it needs to be something that we are sort of half ignoring i'm sure there will be but that's the thing is that it's already been in theaters and gone at this point because the wife was literally in theaters in august for two weeks and then went away and then you and i that's the other thing you and i tried pretty hard to see the wife that's true and we were not able to did i tell you that i met the fellow who sent me the screener of the wife no he came to a reading i was participating in introducing himself lovely guy thank you so much for doing that um yeah well hopefully someone will be able to identify to us a movie we haven't talked about right then maybe we should be talking about immediately so maybe we leave it in the hands of a listener should we anyway we'll discuss we'll see you soon and i'll see you soon thank you