Hello everyone and welcome to the gifted like podcast where we have conversations about Oregon tissue and eye donation. I'm Lori Steele and I'm Joey Boudreau and we are excited because on a previous podcast Joey we talked about one of our recipients a year out and they were able to sign up for college classes which they never thought they would be able to do. Well guess what? I got a text message somebody on campus first day of classes done in the books and she said it was wonderfully challenging.
So you got to love that her name Savannah and we feature her on our Facebook page as well but that was just a great story that spread like wildfire and we're hoping that you do the same if you have a story like that or you see one share it with your friends or share this podcast. Yeah Lori you can find us on iTunes or whatever your favorite podcast app maybe. Yeah while I'm in the car I put those puppies on and listen and it's so easy to do. Also on Facebook I mentioned that earlier donate life Louisiana so see it share it be a part of making life happen.
Today we're going to be talking about how many people how many people with special talents does it take to make life happen so we'll kind of walk you through that. That's going to take a while Lori. Yes. And we'll be interviewing in our community segment a very special lady who happened to be a living donor for her husband.
A little firecracker I can tell. So electronic medical records we're going to talk about that how we use that to make life happen as well. And on our final segment we're going to be as we do in every podcast we'll be honoring a hero. And taking your questions and answers all here on the gifted life podcast.
Today on the gifted life podcast we want to talk about just how many people are involved in a case because we always talking about people with these different talents coming together but we never really covered the different aspects. Right. Yeah. Well Lori a lot of people think most of what we do centers around just like transporting an organ from a donor hospital to a transplant center.
And there's so much more from a logistical standpoint and from a personnel standpoint that takes place. It's so much that I'm going to kind of divide it into a couple different groups. Okay. Yeah because when I watch TV or a movie it's pretty quick and there's not that many steps.
Generally on Grey's Anatomy or one of the TV shows you'll have the physician calling UNOS, you know our United Network of Argan sharing and then all of a sudden there's a transporter that comes with the heart that they needed and that's not the case in real life. We have so many people dedicated to so many aspects of the process. And it starts with our family advocates from our standpoint, from Lopez standpoint the first people on site and the first people there to support both the hospital staff and the families of the family advocates. And they're working at the beginning of basically the onset of a case.
They're working with calling the coroner, making sure that the coroner is aware and making sure that we can help them out in any way that we can in their investigation. They're also communicating with pastoral care, palliative care of course there are ICU doctors, ICU nurses already involved that are trying to save this person's life and this kind of transition of care takes place through them. You know so there's such an integral part. There's also lab technicians who have to draw labs for us just to make sure that these are good life saving organs so that someone can live on.
That's just the beginning of a case. And then with kind of what I call the recovery phase of the case or the critical care part of the case we have a lot of working with the recovery coordinators from LOPA and as we've spoken before our placement coordinators. The placement coordinators are the ones that help find the home. They're the ones that work hand in hand with the transplant center coordinators to make sure that this particular donor is the best match for that particular recipient.
And of course you've got your transplant surgeons. I mean you can't forget about them. And then and this is all in the preparation phase and kind of the ICU phase and the evaluation phase of the process. And then you've got the entire recovery phase in the OR.
And that's where we have a huge team working with us from the hospital. We do have anesthesiologist there because a brain dead person still needs to be ventilated and we still have to maintain a blood pressure until the recovery can take place. So we do have anesthesia there and we've got the OR nurses and scrub techs from the hospital standpoint. And we also have our own.
We have an OR coordinator who works with our recovery coordinator outside of the sterile field so to speak. And then we've got our own scrub tech who works within the sterile field and works hand in hand with our transplant surgeons and in the hospital staff. So this is, I made a big list here but there are so many other people that I can touch on. But just to give you an idea, all of these people and there are multiple, these are or positions but there are multiple people within each of these positions on almost every case.
There are literally tens, twenties, maybe even up to a hundred people working on any one particular case at a time to make life happen. So a couple of things I took away from this. Number one, how important is it to make life happen that we put this many resources in these many people? I'm in all the number of people because you never see that.
People don't see that side of it. And then I'm very grateful to know most of these people who dedicate their lives because cases can take how long? Our average case is over a day long. It's usually around a day and a half or so and it's because there's again so much that's involved to make sure that it's the most suitable organ and the best donor for that particular recipient.
And we can save the most lives that we can in honor of that hero and his family. And I'm just grateful that these people choose to put their talents to this cause, making life happen. Joey, guess what? What's that, Laurie?
We have a little firecracker to talk to today. A living donor who has quite the story to tell and can't wait for you to talk to her a little bit. But Vanessa Anderson is joining us by phone. Hey Vanessa.
How are you doing? I'm doing great. Okay, hang on one second. I want to show Joey this picture of you.
I'm liking you, Vanessa. Yeah, a little firecracker, a little sias. We love it. We're looking at a picture of Vanessa, beautiful floral dress, vibrant, wonderful, and just looking at her picture, you wouldn't think that she was tied to donation in any way, but you are so tied to donation.
So we appreciate you taking the time today. And I'm going to ask you to talk to us about donation and how your life just became so involved. Okay, great. Thank you.
Actually, I worked at Oxford and one of the jobs I absolutely loved at Oxford was to meet with the transplant patients before they actually met with the physicians. I would kind of give them a breakdown about what would happen, who they would meet and stuff like that. So I met a lot of donors. I knew about transplant patients firsthand.
So when my husband got sick, he didn't even go on. He came home one day. He said, Vanessa, they think I'm going to have to go on dialysis or get a transplant. And it just kind of was in denial.
He didn't even go on on me that he was that sick until I saw it seen a change in his color, his personality. He was depressed all the time. He was just not able to do the things that a young man would be able to do in his 30s. Now, right after you guys married or pretty soon after?
When I met him, I knew he was on insulin, insulin-dependent diabetics, but I knew he was sickly. But it just got worse once we got married because I loved to cook. I did a lot of cooking. He did a lot of eating stuff that he probably shouldn't have had.
And so his health just started to deteriorate shortly after we got married. So I would probably say about two years after. Oh, wow. So that is pretty quick.
So fell into a depression, you know what you guys are verbal about? And you were, as I'm sure most loving wives, what can I do at this point, right? Yes, I was concerned. He went to have a little shot playing, I guess, whatever.
So he can have his dialysis. Don't even do him in peritoneal dialysis. So the nurse called me. She said, your husband is not very good at this.
He's too unhappy. He's not talking. If I could kill him slowly. And he would come home a totally different person.
And I saw this. And I thought, have to do something. So I remember calling the transplant nurse and asking, how can I be a donor? I don't remember my whole office standing around me.
We were nervous right? They were all being knew about it. I never kept it a secret. I was 100% I said it didn't be a donor.
If something should happen to me. So this was an opportunity for me to be a donor, a living donor. And I was 100% avoid. I didn't really know the pain that was associated with it or anything like that.
I just knew I had to fix it. I'm helping out. Was he on the transplant list waiting and then it took a while? So you stepped in or it was not going to get that point?
No, he was on the list on for kidney pancreas. And once I told them that I wanted to be tested for a living donor for his kidney, they immediately just put him one side, qualified and passed all the testing and stuff like that. Then he was just looking for a pancreas. But he had been on the list, but it wasn't very long because the wait time they told him it would be about three years.
And I could not see him laughing for years on dial. It just wasn't going to happen. And Vanessa, the amazing part is I've talked to quite a bit of living donors and families with loved ones who are in need. And so often they'll have immediate family.
They'll go through one after the other after the other of immediate family that tries and gets tested because they want to donate and they can't. It is just amazing that you ended up being a perfect match, right? Absolutely. I was a perfect match.
They didn't qualify to even be to donate. They had high blood pressure, diabetes, or something themselves. I didn't do any of those things. I didn't have high blood pressure.
I never smoked out with a drinker. I was in pretty good health. I wanted to do it. I didn't care.
I know my family wasn't 100% on board because they didn't know a lot about it. I was in the transplant world. I know I could survive after this. I could do good.
And I wanted to help him. I wanted him. I was live with me. I wanted him back to the old diet.
Right. Now, what did he think about you wanting to do that? Because I know my husband's like, oh, we don't want anything to happen to you. You know, surgery, that kind of thing.
So, so what was that conversation like? Now, that was weird because he was scared for me. Yes. I knew more about it than he did.
He was afraid he didn't want my help to deteriorate or what if I got an accident, I wouldn't need that kidney. And we don't have kids together. So I knew I didn't have any children that I had to worry about that could develop this disease. And he was all I have to do is my life.
He's my husband. So whatever I can do for him, whatever the pain was I was willing to do it. I asked the nurse, you know, how how people would it be? And he's been heavy.
I had a baby and like, no, he's about that kind of pain. But I didn't know what that pain was. I didn't have a baby. So I didn't know.
I thought I'm willing to take that chance. And I can hear it. Like you've convinced me you're going to do it too. But I love in your story that he had a knack for fixing things.
But when it came to this, you were the fixer and really his little sunshine, right? Yes. He told me though, you know, Vanessa, do you really want to do this? We thought if I can give my heart and live without it, you have to get it.
So it was nothing. And I remember the social worker talking to me asking me to give my husband all for me and my money. I thought we should work out. I can do that.
But they wanted to make sure I wasn't like in a beautiful situation and I was being threatened. I didn't know my husband's not even a man. He doesn't want to get mad and scream or anything like that. He was afraid for me.
This is what I wanted to do. 100% my decision. So Vanessa, can you take us, I guess, through the surgery and how the recovery phase for you as a living donor and of course for down as well? Okay.
Okay. Well, I remember when we both went in and it was so they had us both in like the same holding area. I was so nervous. I was so not nervous.
I was more nervous for another surgery that I had. It's a record versus this. This was nothing for me. I was so prepared for it.
We were holding hands. We sat up for it together and I said, I'm going to be there for you when you come out. I did not realize that I would need as much help as I did because being a domino and stuff like that, I couldn't sit up. And my husband was walking to me with pancakes the next day.
He was going so well. I couldn't even sit up and see the pancakes. So I thought I didn't know the extent of the essential of the cut and stuff like that. It was just that part.
I asked the doctor to let me stay in one extra day because they didn't want to leave him there. I was so concerned about him and I was the one that was more painful than he was. But I didn't want to leave him. I didn't want to go home and worry about him.
I was telling her no. I don't see it. Yes. I got to the lake.
It was wonderful. He said, sure. And I thought of him. And so I stayed that extra day.
The only difference that I saw in him, his mood was that the inter-direction drugs, he was different. He was snappy. He was mean. And I remember calling the doctor crying.
Why is my husband fucking at me? I just gave him a kidney. He's just snappy. And a doctor laughed.
He thought he got to feelin' hurt. I think, yes, he howled at me. He said, but not so. If the drugs, if only intensifying with every motion, he's feeling it.
He's anxious because of drugs, making him hyper. That's why, you know, it's like his nerves is bad. I couldn't understand him fucking at me right after the train point. I mean, you should be thinking me.
Why are you fucking at me? And I remember that being the only issue that I had with the feelings about the train point directly after. And after that, though, obviously, and you and I, we kind of had a little discussion, all fair, you guys have celebrated a monumental anniversary just this past summer. Yes, absolutely.
Keep reminding me. We were out to dinner. I knew it was in July. I'm not good with dates.
So I just knew it was July right before the train. And I remember because we had to run from the storm. We both were all for work. And he said, you know what today is.
I said, what he said today is a 10 year anniversary of you giving me the key. I said, what? I said, let's have a glass of wine. I said, what about that?
I mean, the pain is such in the past. It doesn't phase me, you know. And I would do it again and again and again. And the sad spot was when we were waiting, going through the lab work for the transmas, a lot of other men.
They were by themselves. They didn't have family support. And I asked them, you know, are you waiting for a transplain? And they said, yes, they wouldn't do that for them.
You know, or they said they couldn't deal with the illness. And they left. I'm 100% in it. I love it.
I love it. I'm in it. I have a very important question. I just need to go on the record with this Vanessa.
If you could be honest with me. Do you still get pancakes or what? Pete tries to make banana pancakes. Banana, it has too much banana.
I thought I'd be the best just in the regular pantry. But he's trying. He's trying. He's a good guy.
And he's a very good guy. And you know what? The weird thing was he was getting ready to get discharged that Sunday and he had a pinkery form. So he called me.
I remember being at the house with a bunch of my friends and family around and I was crying and I said they also have a pinkery. So down you got to take it. You know, and if I had the doctor said that he would get a pancreas by itself and only they'd give it to people waiting for a kidney and pancreas. So he got the pancreas and I encouraged him to go ahead and do it.
I couldn't be at the hospital with him because I was the only recovering. And I was the doctor had to talk to me. They had to call me every time they had a chance to let me know how he was doing. I had all my family and friends at the hospital with him.
It was killing me that I could not be there for him. You know, to see him through this. But I encourage him. You do this.
We've come through this too far to turn around. You know, you need this pancreas. So things are. So everything was perfect.
And so for 10 years so far so good? So far so good. No issues whatsoever. I like this woman.
I like this woman. Okay, we just like you. I'm just a knife-ruther-eyed. I'll make you some banana pancakes.
I'll take the regular one. Well, we appreciate you joining us, sharing your story, telling your husband. Thank you as well for allowing us to just get a glimpse of what life is like when it comes to living donation. Thank you so much.
Thank you. It's wonderful. I tell anyone don't hesitate. You can live.
You can survive after. I just make sure that I don't get into any health issues. I have a turn on to develop high blood pressure or something like that. Because in black community, that's one of the reasons you can actually go into to get you into.
So I do everything to make sure I am still alive to celebrate 10 more years with my husband. Yes. And many more. I agree with you.
You know, you are such a testament to making life happen for us. Oh, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Thank you all for this opportunity.
You know, to share my story. I'm so excited. I met somebody at a trans-bank conference and I met someone from Donate Life. And from that point on, I've been getting a lot of people asking about donation.
And in my job, you know, I'm walking around with my flyer telling everybody my story. And they now find out to be a donor. They even think that you could survive or that they wanted to do anything like this. And so they met me and knew about my story.
So I'm very grateful for my job allowing me to meet the people from Donate Life. You're the best. We appreciate you. Thank you, Joey.
Thanks, Vanessa. You have a wonderful day. You too. Hey, Joey.
Guess what? What's going on? We're going to be talking about some technology that actually LOPA created with your help. This is the funny twist to it, right?
Yeah. I don't know if it's my help. Listen to you. Yeah.
We're going to talk about all that. But we had to pull in the big guns today to talk to us about this electronic medical record system that we have here at LOPA that others are using as well. And to just kind of give you an idea of what is all encompassed in that. So Michelle D'verny is here and she's our Director of Clinical Excellence for LOPA.
How are you? I am good. How are you today? Good.
Thanks for being here. No problem. Now we are talking about R-CUBE is what we call it. But R-CUBE to you means what?
R-CUBE means a lot of things. People call it R-CUBE to people call it R-CUBE to people call it R-3. Right. And I'm not sure even that everybody knows exactly what that stands for.
I learned this morning. Yeah. What did you learn? Referrals.
Resources. Reports. I just know that's where all the information is that we need. Right?
Correct. So tell us about R-CUBE. Tell us about Joey helping you, Michelle. R-CUBE is our donor system where we keep all of our information on every donor and referral that comes into this agency from both an organ and a tissue perspective.
The system was created back in 2001. We started using it in 2002. History goes back a little further than that. We had tried as an agency to use several other programs that were out there but decided that none of them really fit what we needed and what we wanted to use the system for.
So Kelly decided that we would just take the plunge and create our own. And of course Kelly random R-C-O couldn't be happier with its development and where we began in 2002, 13 years ago to where it is now. Well that's one way to do it, right? Taylor to our knees.
It's the best way to do it. So it doesn't make any sense if it doesn't work for what you want to use it for. So R-CUBE was created and we initiated using it back in 2002. The main reason that R-CUBE was created was to house all of the information when we are actually doing an organ donor.
The on-site coordinators can actually enter the information straight into the system which can then be seen by the placement coordinator who of course we know is in our Mathery office. The placement coordinator is the one that actually finds the homes and sends that information to the transplant center so that they can make the right decision for their transplant patients. Right so placing the organ's placement. Okay I'm there.
R-CUBE does a whole lot more but why the need to switch over. We were talking about taking handwritten information and trying to put it into the computer and that in itself I can see where there would be a problem built in. There were several problems. I think I was the biggest one.
I did not know that part. He was one of several big problems. Speaking as a placement coordinator back when R-CUBE initiated the on-site coordinators with hand-write all of the information onto a paper chart and then they would fax it to the placement room. Then the placement coordinator would try and decipher when the on-site coordinator had written.
It was the biggest challenge of placement back in the day because we had several coordinators, Joey being in the top three of people whose handwriting we could not read. Got a medal. Gonna change your good at other things. We tried even asking them to print.
Right. Didn't work. Couldn't even read the print. I could see that.
I could see that. We know everything is time sensitive as well so how do we alleviate the problem and how do we make things go faster, more efficient and that's when R-CUBE was born basically. Yes. Yes and less chance for error.
Okay. Now also with R-CUBE just how I refer to it but referrals, reports, resources not only with organ allocation but you can track so much more with this system. You can. We have screens built in and sections, family services.
Our wonderful group of people who follow up and keep in touch with all of our donor families can track all of the correspondence, phone calls, any information that they need so they can always have it at their fingertips when they get a call from a donor family looking for more information. We can track development activity in there. We can track calendars of hospital community education, community projects and also from a hospital perspective and professional education. And so how we found that less chance for error and we are more successful through this?
Yes. The other great things about R-CUBE is anytime a hospital calls in a referral, a potential donor, one of the things that's built into the system is it will automatically check our Louisiana donor registry to see if that patient is registered. So we know going into every referral, you know, we have a little bit of an edge in what the plan might be knowing that this individual signed up to be a donor or if they didn't and that helps us in the conversations with the family. So I'm seeing all kinds of positives from a timing perspective, efficiency perspective, right?
And so we continue to use this system but we're not the only ones who use this system. We're not. There are several other OPOs who have started using this system, Mississippi being one of them. Now, you know, they use the basic system but individually we are able to update what works better for LOPA and on the same side, they're able to update whatever screens or whatever fields works better to help them work more efficiently.
Just because we do an update for LOPA doesn't mean that it automatically gets updated in the Mississippi system. And I think that's one of the best parts about RQ is its flexibility. Yeah. You know, because we see issues, you know, we see things that maybe we need to change because of, you know, you know, standards or governmental standards in our donation.
And then we see, okay, well, we need to make a change here, here and here and we can just make that change. It grows with us. And like she said, with Mississippi, if they've got different modifications they need, they can change it on their own. It doesn't, it's not this big long cumbersome, you know, tedious process.
Good. And an example of that might be coroners. You know, the closer we work with coroners and the more information we find out, they may require different information from us than the coroners in Mississippi, require from the OPO in Mississippi. So we can tailor our corner screen to meet the needs of Louisiana coroners.
So Michelle, before you go, I did want to talk to you a little bit about donor net. Can you fill us in on that and how RQ plays part? Yes. Donor net is UNOS's electronic system.
Okay. So UNOS is United Network for Organ Sharing. Correct. And they are the national company who houses all of the information on every single patient waiting for a life-saving organ transplant in the country.
Whenever any OPO is doing an organ donor, the basic donor information is inputted into the donor net system. Based on the information that's entered, a printout of potential recipients is then provided to the OPO. And this is what our placement coordinators use to make the offers to the transplant centers to eventually find the perfect recipient for each organ from every donor. And so this is generic information that's being...
It's very generic. Yeah. The initial information to create the list consists of nothing more than an age, a height, a weight, a blood type, a location. So it's very generic because, you know, from a placement perspective, all organs are attempted to be placed local before going regionally and nationally.
So donor net came up somewhere around 2007. Somewhere around... It's lucky for us that we already had our cubed in place and it was working as a great system for us. So it was a very easy transition.
The main purpose of donor net, prior to donor net, the placement coordinators would physically make a phone call to the transplant center. And they would verbally give all of the information to that coordinator at the transplant center. Who would then turn around and verbally give all that information to the transplant surgeon to decide if they were going to accept this organ for the patient being offered to? Lots of room for error there.
Lots of room for error. And time. Time. Yeah.
It probably took an average of 20 to 25 minutes to give a verbal offer. So with the creation of donor net came the creation of electronic offers. So no longer did we have to physically call and give every piece of information. We could go into donor net, we could click the first two potential recipients, hit a button, and then all the information was then transferred to the transplant center.
They get a notification that they have an offer pending. So because we sent them that offer, they now have access to read all of the donor information in donor net. Which makes things a lot easier, which makes things a lot quicker and less potential for error. And sees more lives.
Absolutely. So our cubed for us was an easy transition to create what we call an upload. So every time that we are doing an organ donor, our onsite coordinators are putting all of the donor information straight into our cubed. Once the information is in or any time there's additional information, our placement coordinators create what we call an upload.
And that information is electronically moved from our cubed straight into donor net. So we don't have to look at the screen in our cubed and then physically type the information in the screen in the donor net. Which again, much less chance for an error, faster and just more efficient. So that's probably been one of the best changes and improvements in the last few years from the the organ placement perspective, you know, as it relates to our cubed.
Yeah, I can hear that. So our cubed referrals, reports, resources. Michelle, we thank you. Joey, thank you because it sounded like you're on the ground level of a switch here, bud.
I'm gonna thank my mom. Oh, your teachers. We may have to talk out a little. So, man, so we appreciate it.
Michelle is our director of clinical excellence here at LOPA and you can hear why. So Michelle, thank you for your time and thank you are cubed and how you helped to make life happen. Thank you. I'm gonna talk about Nicholas Jordan Crazy, Oquan.
I say crazy because that was his nickname. I'm interested to learn more already, but he is the hero that we are honoring during today's podcast. He was a senior at Pine Prairie High School, play football. So big sports guy, he wore number 23 and again, nickname was crazy.
He ranked eighth in district A for tackles. That's a good thing, right? Mr. Sports Guy over there.
Started playing baseball at just five years old. We love those prodigies and played one year in high school as well. He was well liked. He was the basketball homecoming senior prince.
That was pretty awesome. He was very protective older brother of five children. So just very close to his family, just a cutie and you can see his picture and read his story if you go to lopa.org and click on faces of donation. But what happened was in November of 2010, Jordan was on his way to pick up his two sisters from after school activities and there was a motor vehicle accident and he suffered a head trauma.
So November 20th, 2010, that's the day he gained his angel wings and became an organ donor. And what the family likes to highlight is that it was his decision to become an organ donor when he turned 18. And that's a very important decision for the family and for those lives that he saved. So his family says they're very proud of that decision and it brings them great peace, especially right after the accident.
And so they say, we know that Jordan lives on through the recipients. He will forever live on in our hearts. And there was only one word to describe Jordan and they say, that's beautiful. And guess what?
The whole world got to see that, right? That's right. He was actually honored in the rose parade just a year ago. His floor graph was put on one of the floats.
Those are flowers and plant materials, like seeds and things that they turn into a beautiful picture. And it was amazing. I've seen it many times in our office how beautiful his floor graph was. And it was just an amazing thing for them to go out and be part of that whole rose parade experience.
It's awesome. I love that the world gets to see these are the faces. So when you think about donation, think about these faces right here and make that decision. So at this point, we do want to pause and we want to say thank you to Nicholas Jordan Okwam for the gift of life.
Joey, I am giggling because I'm looking at our question and answer for today and seriously, this came through. I'm getting nervous. Well, if I were you, I would be. At one point, we talked about Blue and Green Day, which is where people dress up.
They do different things, bow ties for their dogs to support donation. And I don't know if we were joking around. Something came up about Joey painting his nails, Blue and Green and support, right? So that must have come up in conversation.
So the question is did Joey paint his nails, Blue and Green for Blue and Green Day? So I mean, curious minds want to know. And well, not only did I paint my toes, Blue and Green for the day, I painted them for the entire week. I hadn't I had a painting for the entire.
I don't know. I just drop the mic down. I don't need to see. I don't need to see.
So here's my follow up question. So you painted them yourself, your wife. My wife. Oh, she helped you.
And what a nice wife you got. My papa diatress. Is that right? Yeah.
What do you call those things? She may say something else. Oh, yeah. I love them.
Oh, that's got it. That's got it. That's got it. Cool.
Okay. So I didn't think that he followed through. I thought that was just a joke, but kudos to you, Joe. But look, you don't have to wait until like Blue and Green Day, which usually hits in April.
You can do it year round. We had a dog named Owen was named Owen Richard Lipsey, and he is the dog of Wendy Lipsey. So she's a recipient, but she had a bow tie and now it's just so ingrained because they're so into donation, but she just picked up this bow tie because she loved it and it was Blue and Green. And I said, he has a Blue and Green bow tie.
She goes, he sure does. So it's just been great and that Blue and Green are our colors. So share that with us. Joey, we need to have a sidebar after this podcast.
Thanks for the questions. Keep them coming. All right. Fantastic podcast.
Fantastic guests. We had two fantastic guests. You know, of course, our own Michelle Duvrenne who is one of the ones that helped spearhead. Our cue changes, of course, partially due to my terrible handwriting.
You're part of history, Joe. Yes. And certainly we want to thank Vanessa Anderson, especially for her gift that she gave down her husband. She is such an amazing lady.
She had such a vibrance about her. Fire cracker. Full of energy. I love it.
So we want to thank the two guests for being part of our podcast. Yeah. And we do want to thank you for listening. If you can hear me right now, please spread the word about the gifted live podcast.
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