The Girl Gooner Apocalypse (Is A Good Thing?)

In this episode, Malcolm and Simone go deep on the female gooning wave — the explosive rise of erotic romance novels and smut that now makes up a huge share of what women are actually reading.We cover the hard data: romance sales growth, reading frequency stats, and older studies showing romance readers have more (and more satisfying) sex. Simone and Malcolm explain reactive sexuality, why these books can act as exogenous priming, and why the average effect on relationships appears positive rather than destructive.Then they break down the dominant tropes in the biggest current series — Empyrean (Fourth Wing / Iron Flame / Onyx Storm), A Court of Thorns and Roses, The Hunting of Adeline, dark mafia, and Zodiac Academy — and what the power dynamics, possessiveness, and “claiming” language actually reveal about female arousal profiles.Also discussed: the Wicker movie trailer going mainstream, why most men and women want very different things in erotic content, the biblical case against inventing extra sexual prohibitions, and a short closer on premarital sex and the film One Night Only.Episode Transcript[00:00:00] Simone Collins: Your face. What? What? What? So you can see we’ve reached mainstream. No, you, you, you haven’t read these books. You don’t understand what women are reading about-[00:00:14] Malcolm Collins: Did you read those books? ...[00:00:14] Simone Collins: in these books.[00:00:15] Would you like to know more?[00:00:17] Malcolm Collins: Hello, Simone. I’m excited to be here with you today. We have touched on the topic of the rise of the female gooning wave, but I wanted to go deeper into both the research around it and how that wave is changing, because it’s having an, a much bigger impact on society than people think.[00:00:35] About-[00:00:35] Simone Collins: Excuse me, are people researching female gooners?[00:00:39] Malcolm Collins: Oh, yes. We have many re- Simone, when you say female gooners as if they’re the rare thing, the vast majority-[00:00:46] Simone Collins: No, I know ... are women. Look, trust me, I know. Yes. I just-[00:00:50] Malcolm Collins: Oh yeah, I know you know, because I know what you listen to at night,[00:00:53] Simone Collins: Simone. Stop. I’m listening to the Old Testam- Oh, never mind.[00:00:56] Yeah, that’s pretty messed up, so go on then.[00:00:59] Malcolm Collins: I actually wanna ask it for later. Which industry makes more, this or male ?[00:01:06] Simone Collins: Oh, no, we did this before. The, the romance novel industry makes a ton more money. Are you kidding me?[00:01:12] Malcolm Collins: Well, we’ll, we’ll see, we’ll see. It’s[00:01:13] Simone Collins: not even- But, okay, hold on[00:01:14] funny and funny. Yeah So,[00:01:15] Malcolm Collins: A third- Offended you[00:01:16] Simone Collins: would ask ...[00:01:17] Malcolm Collins: a third of all fiction books is that people are reading right now are- ... female gooning books, okay?[00:01:22] Simone Collins: No one reads anymore except for certain reasons.[00:01:25] Malcolm Collins: This has gone up from 23% w- just a decade ago.[00:01:31] Simone Collins: Oh, oh.[00:01:32] Malcolm Collins: The romance sales industry year over year grew 24% this year in the, in the first half of the year circa BookScan And 26% of survey r- readers reported buying more than one romance book in the prior year.[00:01:51] Now, for, I wanna get to this immediately because a lot of people on our channel are gonna jump and be like, “Oh, this is terrible. Oh, these women, their partners, how terrible is this?” So Coles and Sharp in 1984 did a study. And what they found was that readers had sex twice as often per week as non-readers.[00:02:11] Simone Collins: There was- Yeah, that makes sense ‘cause they’re kinda just getting themselves in that frame of mind. Women have to be, like, reminded that they’re sexually interested, I think, more than men do. Men, it’s like, it’s there for the most part. Women need to be reminded that they can be sexual beings. Is[00:02:26] Malcolm Collins: that your thing?[00:02:26] I, I think that’s an absolutely good point. Yeah. I wanna, I wanna expand on this point after I go into it. The, the am- among housewives specifically, readers were significantly more sexually satisfied than non-readers.[00:02:38] Simone Collins: Hmm.[00:02:38] Well, you know, we, we, when you originally wrote The Pragmatist’s Guide to Sexuality, you, you looked at, you, you didn’t do romance novel readers, you just polled people about their erotic material consumption.[00:02:49] But then you found that people who consumed erotic material who were female, like, so women who consumed erotic material, it had much more satisfying and active sex lives. Like, if you are a boyfriend, a husband, anyone who has intimate access to a woman and you want her to be a little bit more forward i- in her advances, you should get, buy, buy her the best-selling romance novels.[00:03:14] The most perverted stuff[00:03:16] Malcolm Collins: So she’s got perversions on her mind all[00:03:18] Simone Collins: the time. Yes. So you need... Yes, she needs to have a dirty mind. If her mind isn’t dirty, it’s your fault, okay? This is-[00:03:23] Malcolm Collins: And women experiment with these things with their partners. So they, the ones who do this do significantly more fantasy play.[00:03:31] But the reason I wanted to, to put that out there to start with is it’s the same as the pornography thing, right? Like, guys who consume porn have more and better sex than guys who don’t consume porn. This has been shown in, like, multiple studies, right? Mm-hmm. You know, it’s, it, it-[00:03:47] Simone Collins: Look, people who watch cooking shows probably have better cooking techniques and cook more than people who don’t watch cooking shows.[00:03:54] Malcolm Collins: Yeah. It’s, and it’s not- So ... now, I, I, I do wanna make an aside here before I go further. There is [00:04:00] clearly a type of woman and a type of man who cannot engage healthily with this type of content. Oh,[00:04:05] Simone Collins: yeah. No, yeah.[00:04:06] Malcolm Collins: There is a type of woman-[00:04:07] Simone Collins: Well, there’s also people who can’t engage healthily with food or exercise, you know?[00:04:10] Malcolm Collins: That gets one shot and goes full goon cave and never leaves her room after that, right? There is a type of guy- But did you[00:04:17] Simone Collins: want her as a girlfriend in the first place, right? If she’s that kind of person.[00:04:20] Malcolm Collins: I, well, you know, she might get obsessed with you if that was her only alternative. Yeah. I don’t think that’s gonna happen, though.[00:04:27] Simone Collins: No, mm-mm.[00:04:28] Malcolm Collins: These types of women are typically, in my experience, pretty histionic and an issue- An issue ... to date. An issue to date. Hmm. You don’t, you, you don’t want a super horny girlfriend or wife. I, I have done that before. It is very exhausting because you’ve got to remember... Sorry, go ahead.[00:04:44] Simone Collins: You had a Friend- a Fred Flintstone moment with that, didn’t you?[00:04:48] Malcolm Collins: What do[00:04:48] Simone Collins: you mean by that? Someone banging on your door, “Wilma.”[00:04:50] Malcolm Collins: Yeah,[00:04:51] Simone Collins: yeah. Oh, sorry. I always say that with a German accent because I was once locked out of a French hotel. Let me in. And there was a German outside- Yeah ... and he was banging on the door screaming, “Wilma,” but in a German accent.[00:05:01] It’s iconic. So and it was the best moment I ever had in Paris. Seeing German locked out of a hotel Sorry Oh[00:05:06] Malcolm Collins: my God. Okay, anyway.[00:05:07] Simone Collins: Carry on.[00:05:08] But you had a girl literally trying to bang down your door to get to that-[00:05:12] Malcolm Collins: Yes,[00:05:13] Simone Collins: yes[00:05:13] notably perfect[00:05:14] Malcolm Collins: something of[00:05:14] Simone Collins: yours But, but[00:05:14] Malcolm Collins: guys forget when they’re like, “No, it would always be great to have, like, a maximally horny girl.” It’s like sex is majority of the work. 99% of the physical effort is the male. If your partner wants to have sex way more than you wanna have sex, that’s just a ton of extra work for you.[00:05:33] Simone Collins: Mm.[00:05:33] Malcolm Collins: And it gets extremely exhausting. When I’ve been in, in relationships like that, you, you hear them at the door and you’re like, “No.”[00:05:41] Simone Collins: Yeah. “[00:05:44] Malcolm Collins: Not again. I’m trying to do my homework.” Yeah. “I’m trying to study.”[00:05:48] Simone Collins: Aw, poor Malcolm. “[00:05:50] Speaker 4: The spirit is willing, but the flesh is spongy and bruised.[00:05:53] Malcolm Collins: I have other things I wanna do right now.”[00:05:55] Simone Collins: Poor Dino. Aw.[00:05:57] Malcolm Collins: No, but the point here being is the, the- these books do not appear to be making relationships less strong, on average at least, right?[00:06:05] Simone Collins: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm,[00:06:05] Malcolm Collins: mm-hmm. They appear to be making them much stronger on average. And I think Simone, like, I think that they’re way more important to a healthy relationship than me being a fairly pro-corn guy. When I say pro-corn, I mean only of non-humans. I think the corn industry is really bad. Mm-hmm.[00:06:22] I think OnlyFans is really bad. I think things of use- using living humans. But if it’s drawn or made with AI, whatever, right? Like, that’s not a real- Yeah ... human that’s being drawn into an industry.[00:06:31] Simone Collins: Yeah.[00:06:32] Malcolm Collins: But even, even having that position, and you can go see our old videos on this and how it relates to the Bible and everything like that, which we talk about a lot there.[00:06:40] Like just in case people are wondering, if the Bible didn’t want you... D- do you not think that no Jew had figured out drawing a naked woman on a sheet of paper yet? Do you think that like- No,[00:06:53] Simone Collins: some of, some of the early graffiti that you can see around the world[00:06:58] Malcolm Collins: Yeah. D- do you think that they were just unaware of this as a concept?[00:07:01] Because it doesn’t ban it anywhere, and it talks about emissions in explicit detail in the Old Testament. Emissions. Doesn’t ban it anywhere, right? Mm-hmm. Like, if it, if it, if it wanted to ban it, it has a lot of words to do that, right? Now you could say, “Well, don’t look at other people’s wives with, with lust,” right?[00:07:20] Or, “Don’t covet what other people have.” Mm-hmm. Which I would agree with 100%, but the majority of at the time of the Bible would not be of other people’s wives. It was not people masturbating looking at other human women. It would’ve been drawn stuff- Pretty[00:07:34] Simone Collins: primitive drawing, yeah ...[00:07:35] Malcolm Collins: or, or figurines or stuff like that.[00:07:37] Yeah. So that’s what they would’ve banned. They would’ve known the difference between the two things, which is why all of the prohibitions are against other human beings, which make a lot of sense. And actually, when Simone was rereading the Old Testament and you reread that line, you were like, “This applies so much more to Instagram and Facebook than it does-” Mm-hmm[00:07:55] “porn.” Mm-hmm.[00:07:56] Simone Collins: It expands to a bunch of other things, too.[00:07:57] Malcolm Collins: You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not [00:08:00] covet your neighbor’s wife or his manservant or his maidservant or his ox or his donkey-” Yeah, so[00:08:05] Simone Collins: like get, get off Instagram ... “[00:08:06] Malcolm Collins: anything that belongs to your neighbor.” That’s[00:08:07] Simone Collins: so- Don’t watch MTV’s Cribs. I’m[00:08:09] Malcolm Collins: not gonna do this Okay, so you hear that, and you can be like, this is a very strict prohibition on Instagram, and it’s a very strict prohibition on Facebook- Yeah[00:08:16] being used in a specific way. It’s a strict prohibition on certain types of YouTube content.[00:08:21] Simone Collins: Architectural Digest videos Way, way,[00:08:22] Malcolm Collins: way, way more-[00:08:24] Simone Collins: Yeah ...[00:08:24] Malcolm Collins: than corn or erotic literature.[00:08:26] Simone Collins: Yeah.[00:08:27] Malcolm Collins: And note here, the Bible also doesn’t ban erotic literature. The Bible contains erotic literature.[00:08:34] Simone Collins: Yeah.[00:08:34] Malcolm Collins: Right? Like, there are, there are a number of sections in the Bible that can best be described as, I actually think, literally the most erotic literature ever written up to that point in human history.[00:08:45] Simone Collins: That’s what really shocked me the first time I read it. I was like, “Is this appropriate for high school? This isn’t...” Yeah[00:08:50] Malcolm Collins: The Bible was a pioneer in erotic literature.[00:08:54] Simone Collins: It really was. Look, there’s a reason it caught on.[00:08:56] Malcolm Collins: Centuries ahead of time.[00:08:58] Simone Collins: Yeah.[00:08:59] I take the anti-corn biblical arguments in the same sort of category as the people who are like, “The Bible is against drinking. Don’t you know alcohol is so sinful?” And I’m like, “Well, I mean, I’m pretty sure Jesus turned water into wine.” Like, that’s like a big, , y- he, he didn’t have, he didn’t ha-- He’s like, “Water?[00:09:23] Bro, I got something strictly better than water for all y’all.” , It’s one of those strictly, , anti-biblical arguments where somebody clearly is just not interested in what the Bible says or is about, and is interested in imposing their own morality on you separate... which to me is, like, a really big sign that this is a person who has no interest in what’s true[00:09:51] Like we get a lot of people who will comment in our videos being like, “Well, Christians believe X.” And I’m like, “Well, X isn’t in the Bible, so w- w- wait, what are you saying?, Like we released a video recently and people were like, “Well, Christians believe every life has value.”[00:10:07] And I’m like, “Well, that’s not what’s in the Bible.” Okay? So you’re just defining whatever you believe is what Christians believe and then saying that we’re not that without referencing anything[00:10:22] A note here, if you want to go New Testament, people are like, “Oh, what about the line where Jesus says don’t look at women with lust?” It’s like, well, one, he doesn’t actually say that. It’s desire. It’s the same word that Jesus looks at like the Passover sacrament with, in different parts of the, the text.[00:10:38] So, , yeah, that’s, that’s not what that says. , And it falls to the same thing we’ve been talking about here. More broadly, I get really disgusted because the people who push this stuff the hardest are generally the ones who, like, live bad lives, if I’m gonna be honest. They’re like, “Malcolm, you need to live this way because this is the way society can be good.”[00:10:59] And I’m like, “How many kids do you have? Do you have a, a satisfying relationship?” Look, I’m here with five, going on six kids, in a satisfied long-term marriage, and I’m saying this stuff works. And the people who say it doesn’t work, typically they don’t have that. , And I think that that’s something that you should take into account when you say, “Is it okay if your wife reads horny books?”[00:11:23] Malcolm Collins: Ahead of its time. Hmm But there’s also a practical reason I take this stance, if you’re new to knowing that I have this stance, is because I think when you prohibit stuff like this, you make it way easier for your kids to get peeled out of your religion.[00:11:34] Hmm ... because it’s the easiest way for an outsider to be like, “Oh, look, you have all these desires, you have all these... Why don’t you come to us? You must be a deviant like us.” But even as much as I’m pro-male erotic material, when it doesn’t use humans or erotic literature or whatever, I am way more pro-female.[00:11:50] Like, the female Goonerboom is a really good Goonerboom.[00:11:54] Simone Collins: Yeah.[00:11:54] Malcolm Collins: Because as Simone said, there’s something called reactive sexuality. All right? And most [00:12:00] females are reactively sexual. That is their type of sexuality that they experience. Now, a male doesn’t un- generally doesn’t understand reactive sexuality because males d- on average don’t experience reactive sexuality.[00:12:13] When a male, You know, sees someone who he thinks is hot, right? Or sees something that he thinks is hot. Or even is just sitting there thinking, he’s like, “You know what? I wanna look at something hot right now. Do-do-do-do-do.” I’m gonna go look at that, right? Women, a lot of women, this just doesn’t happen to them.[00:12:29] Instead, they become aroused when they are put in an actively arousing situation, right? So if I was to, you know, corner and kiss my wife and push her up against a wall, that would cause the arousal cycle in her to start. But she wouldn’t feel that she wanted that without being slowly primed into it b- physically and psychologically.[00:12:55] And a lot of guys are unaware of this, and I think this is how a lot of dead bedrooms end up happening, functioning.[00:12:59] Simone Collins: Hmm.[00:13:00] Malcolm Collins: Is that a guy forgets that he’s supposed to be proactive, or norms in the relationship are established where the guy isn’t proactive and the female has a reactive sexuality.[00:13:11] That said, you can trick the system.[00:13:14] Simone Collins: Yeah, if you have a, a partner with a reactive sexuality who will never make the first move, give her a bunch of romance novels and that might change.[00:13:22] Malcolm Collins: Right. Because then she’s sitting around thinking about this sexy vampire boy.[00:13:27] Simone Collins: Yeah, it’s, it’s exogenous priming.[00:13:28] You don’t, you don’t have to do it yourself, you know.[00:13:32] Malcolm Collins: The other thing that’s fairly good about this content is that women who read it read it very frequently. And you might be like, “Wait, why is that a good thing?” Well, what it means is if they’re reading it frequently there are not as much... So just to go over the statistics here, 10% of women read it daily 25% read it several times a week, 8% read it once a, a week, 18% two to three times a month, 17% once a month, and 23% less than once a month.[00:14:01] So it’s- Hm ... only u- under a quarter of women are, who, who read this stuff, and, and a lot of women read this stuff, are reading it less than once a month.[00:14:10] Simone Collins: That’s kind of insane.[00:14:12] Malcolm Collins: But what that means, you read, listen to more than one a month, Simone.[00:14:15] Simone Collins: No, no, no, I’m, I’m, I’m surprised by just how many do, though.[00:14:19] ‘Cause I also thought no one read. So.[00:14:21] Malcolm Collins: Well, you would count as reading. You listen to them.[00:14:24] Simone Collins: No, I know. No, but, but what I’m saying is it’s, in a world where basically no one reads books, the fact that this many women are reading romance novels is humbling.[00:14:35] Malcolm Collins: And in a s- a study that Gotlay did in 2026, 85%[00:14:41] Simone Collins: read-[00:14:42] Malcolm Collins: Gotlaid?[00:14:42] It’s just... No, it’s the name. It’s of somebody, Gotlay or something. It’s some Spanish-[00:14:46] Simone Collins: Okay. Okay ... word. All right, never mind.[00:14:48] Malcolm Collins: Okay. 85% read smut regularly, 31% spend over 10 hours per week reading explicit romance. 31% of women spending over 10 hours a week. 36% have been reading explicit romance for over a decade, and 99% had read smut at least once.[00:15:06] 99% of women. This is one of those things- That’s a lot ... like when they did the, the survey on men where they were trying to find out how men who had never consumed porn performed on a particular task. Mm-hmm. And they ended up having to abandon the survey because they couldn’t find any men who fell into that category or enough men who fell into that category to do the study.[00:15:23] With women it’s the same. It’s 99%, guys. 99%. Also, women, if you’re into this, get on RFAB. We have some really good engines for this stuff. Don’t, don’t just have it be the boys over there, okay? RFAB.ai, the best gooning engine on the internet. But I wanna, I wanna go into this a bit more and talk about how it could change society and how it’s becoming more popular.[00:15:45] Right now you have 51 million romance books are sold in the United States every year. Oxum Storm, which we’ll get to, ‘cause I also wanna go over the plots of the, the big ones right now. Yeah. Has sold well over half a million in its opening week in 2025. The [00:16:00] Zodiac Academy sold 2.8 million copies.[00:16:05] Zodiac Academy. And Fifty Shades of Grey sold, grossed, the, the film trilogy grossed 1.7 trillion oh, sorry, billion at the box office.[00:16:11] Simone Collins: Oh, like a lifetime ago. I don’t know.[00:16:13] Malcolm Collins: Yeah.[00:16:15] Simone Collins: But Zodiac Academy, oh my God, women are super into zodiac stuff, so that’s smart.[00:16:20] Malcolm Collins: That’s smart. Okay. Yeah. So, d- do you wanna go over some of the plots to this or talk more?[00:16:25] Simone Collins: Yes, obviously. What is Zodiac... Are, are people... Oh my God, are they put into, like, houses of associated with their, their s- their zodiac sign? Wait, no, it’s like Hunger Games and they all have to fight each other, but it’s sexy. It’s... No, just tell me. Just tell me.[00:16:43] Malcolm Collins: Well, we’ll get to that one next ‘cause it wasn’t in my initial...[00:16:45] I, I did the top five this year.[00:16:48] Simone Collins: Okay.[00:16:48] Malcolm Collins: Okay. So apparently that didn’t make it into the top five this year somehow.[00:16:51] All right, one the Empyrean series, okay? Ooh. This is like Fourth Wing, Iron Flame, and Onyx Storm that we were talking about earlier. In terms of, like, the broad plot of it, a fragile young woman is forced- Oh ... into a brutal dungeon rider war college. Deadly training, political betrayal, war against dark magic users, intensely bonded romance with a powerful, secretive, morally gray rider.[00:17:19] So let’s talk about the, the themes in this book. The hero, Xaden. Xaden is his actual name spelled with an X.[00:17:28] Simone Collins: God,[00:17:29] Malcolm Collins: no. That’s, that, that’s the[00:17:30] Simone Collins: name. No, no, no, no, no.[00:17:30] Malcolm Collins: Sorry, the reason I was gonna say it’s good that women consume a lot of these is when women consume a lot, the biggest risk from these is that they begin to form a romantic or emotional attachment to one of the male leads- Oh[00:17:41] to the opposition of your relationship.[00:17:43] Simone Collins: Yeah, yeah, either[00:17:44] Malcolm Collins: they’re gonna replace you. If they are going through them so quickly that they can’t form a romantic attachment to one of the leads- Yeah ... or they have sort of a diluted attachment to so many leads- Yeah ... that then you don’t have as much of a problem with that.[00:17:57] Simone Collins: But- Well, the way it is in some series, it- they’ll, like, switch the main love interest from one book to the next.[00:18:03] Malcolm Collins: Oh, you were talking about that.[00:18:04] Simone Collins: Yeah ...[00:18:05] Malcolm Collins: where it’s a new love interest.[00:18:05] Simone Collins: One thing else we found when I was looking at book reviews of these for a different episode we did, I can’t remember which, is that when women wrote book reviews, they would just literally put in basically the female fetishes that were associated with the book Like age gap lovers t- or enemies to lovers, et cetera.[00:18:25] Like, that all the dynamics that were specific turn-ons which is Notable. I mean, there’s no lying, I think, in the community about what this is. Mm-hmm. We all know what this is about. No one’s being like, “I’m reading literature.” They are very open about it, which is great.[00:18:45] Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Al- also, I should note if it wasn’t clear, I still think engaging with this material is sinful.[00:18:49] I just don’t think it’s particularly more sinful than any other form of entertainment you can engage is that’s, that’s purely, like, in- Yeah,[00:18:56] Simone Collins: we’re saying if you want to waste your time with non-procreative sex, which we also say is sinful, having your girlfriend or wife consume this is not a bad thing based on your stupid hedonic interests.[00:19:10] Yeah,[00:19:10] Malcolm Collins: it’s a- But it’s still wrong ... it’s not, it’s not particularly worse than watching a football game, right? Yeah. Like- Yeah ... which is incredibly selfish and bad and can lead to betting behavior and has all sorts of, like, the, like, football is probably worse because you have to do it at specific times, and it has the risk of getting you addicted to gambling.[00:19:25] Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.[00:19:25] Malcolm Collins: But anyway w- w- and, and, and gambling is, I think, one of the most sinful things you can do simply because of how much it can destroy your life, how quickly it can destroy your life. Like, drugs take weeks to destroy your life. We talk about this in another one. Like, even if you take heroin, you still have a ch- you know, maybe whatever, but with gambling, you can, like, leverage everything you might ever own and everything that any one of your family members will ever own in one minute.[00:19:59] You, you can put yourself [00:20:00] in generational debt in a minute. Yeah.[00:20:03] Simone Collins: Don’t do it. Mm-mm. No.[00:20:05] Malcolm Collins: And historically, and maybe in the future, that means selling off your kids and stuff like that, you know, b- based on this. Y- you’re making it even worse, but okay.[00:20:12] Simone Collins: Yeah.[00:20:12] Malcolm Collins: Or yourself. You know, a lot of people ended up in slavery from that in, like, Rome and stuff.[00:20:16] Simone Collins: Oh, yeah.[00:20:16] Malcolm Collins: So the, the male hero, Xaden, is significantly older and more powerful and physically dominant. The heroine starts as physically weaker and lower status. Smex is frequent, graphic, and often rough.[00:20:30] Simone Collins: Oh.[00:20:31] Malcolm Collins: Scenes regularly feature him pinning her, holding her down, controlling the pace, and using explicit language about owning her body.[00:20:40] Now note here, I, I, I wanna be, this is what women get really excited about.[00:20:45] Simone Collins: Yeah, totally. Like,[00:20:45] Malcolm Collins: guys, be aware of this, right? Like- In the right context. Now, note here other very important[00:20:52] Simone Collins: caveats Yeah, the right context. You’re hot and rich and powerful. The right context.[00:20:57] Malcolm Collins: You want a woman in your life, and I’ve said this before and I’m gonna say it again, luring a woman into your life as a long-term partner by being maximally sexy is a very bad idea.[00:21:10] Mm, yeah. The reason why it’s a bad idea is the type of woman who marries someone because she found them sexy is typically not who you wanna be marrying. The woman who goes home with the guy from a bar because she found him sexy above all the other reasons she might be interested or want from her life typically not the, the bait you wanna be using to catch a life partner.[00:21:28] Simone Collins: Yeah, is[00:21:28] Malcolm Collins: this the kind[00:21:29] Simone Collins: of diligence you want when you, you want your female partner to, like, do other things, help you with other things? This[00:21:35] Malcolm Collins: is about g- getting good at being sexy and sexual knowledge and stuff like that is important for pleasing a partner that you have secured through other means, right?[00:21:46] That, that is where the pleasing the partner part comes in, is it- it- it’s- Yeah ... it’s securing the partner through getting them interested in spending a lifetime with you and not having sex with you. And note here when I talk about spending a lifetime with you, this is really critically important.[00:22:03] I’ve mentioned, I’ve mentioned this before. I’ll mention it again. Women primarily what they w- look for in a long-term partner is like a journey that they can join or a struggle that they can join. They want to join the hero’s party. And what I want to be clear here, ‘cause I think a lot of people hear this and they’re like, “Yeah, but how do I be the hero in this world that we live in without wars or battles or quests or adventures or anything like that?[00:22:28] You know, not everyone can go out and do what you’re doing, Malcolm, or whatever,” right? Or it might be clear to somebody how I serve that function for girls. I think a very good anime for understanding this, ‘cause I was reflecting on it-[00:22:39] Simone Collins: Yeah ...[00:22:39] Malcolm Collins: recently, is Spice and Wolf. You, you remember Spice and Wolf, right?[00:22:43] Yeah. Where the male protagonist is a merchant, a town to town merchant, and the female protagonist and it’s a, a romance to the side, is a a god, a literal god. And yet at no point in watching Spice and Wolf are you at all confused why these two would be in a relationship with each other or why the literal god falls in love with and wants to spend her life with the male merchant.[00:23:11] And it’s because he’s not just a merchant dir- as like a day job or something like that. He, he makes it his quest.[00:23:20] Simone Collins: He makes- Yeah, this is an anime about economics.[00:23:23] Malcolm Collins: Yeah, the, the anime is predominantly about economics. It’s an anime that I can universally recommend. It does have nudity scenes in it, I guess, so it might be a problem for some people with kids.[00:23:33] Nudity of a furry because the- ... the female is a, a fox deity. Or no, a wolf deity. I,[00:23:39] Simone Collins: I- Nudity of, of a furry.[00:23:42] Malcolm Collins: But who the cares about that anymore, right? You[00:23:45] Simone Collins: know. Look, kids- Don’t seem to care a lot about nudity, for[00:23:49] Malcolm Collins: what it’s[00:23:49] Simone Collins: worth.[00:23:50] Malcolm Collins: It, but it’s, it’s a, it’s, it’s about economic sort of like mysteries and challenges and battles is- Mm-hmm[00:23:55] is sort of the, the thesis of it.[00:23:57] Simone Collins: Yeah.[00:23:57] Malcolm Collins: And watch the first one, not the [00:24:00] remake.[00:24:00] Simone Collins: I didn’t know there was a remake ...[00:24:01] Malcolm Collins: I still haven’t seen the remake so I don’t know if it’s good or not, but I know the first one- Okay ... is spectacular. So- Yeah, yeah,[00:24:05] Simone Collins: yeah ...[00:24:06] Malcolm Collins: the reason I, I use this as an avatar for this is being a guy and having an adventure that a woman wants to join does not mean that the adventure has to be the grandest thing in the world.[00:24:17] You can make anything the grandest of adventures in regards to how you relate to it, right? Hmm. And this anime shows that very, very well. Yeah. To the extent where I think even me just me talking about it, people have watched it, they’re like, “Oh yeah, I did never question why a literal god wanted to date and spend her life with a...”[00:24:38] He’s not depicted as a particularly rich merchant. He’s not depicted as a particularly powerful merchant. If anything, sort of the opposite. But you never question it. You’re like, “Oh yeah, of course, that would be really sexy.” Okay, ne- next one here. But the, the but you wanna maximally please your...[00:24:53] The owning the person’s body, that’s good pillow talk, okay? Now you wanna talk things through with your partner and stuff like that as well, but you know, knowing, knowing their stuff and being able to be like, “Hey, is this sort of stuff your stuff? Is this sort of stuff your stuff?” Or even just looking at what they’re reading, right?[00:25:08] Simone Collins: Yeah. Or- Or having ta... Look, I think women love talking about them, and you can kind of... They will tell you what they’re into in the commentary or editorializing they do on the book they’re reading. Just ask them- Yes ... to tell you about the book. Ask them to tell you about the- You don’t have to ask them what they’re into.[00:25:27] Just be like, “Oh, what are you reading? Tell me about it. I, I heard it was a good book.” And then they’ll go off.[00:25:33] Malcolm Collins: Yeah. No, it’s just like, and guys it is, like we, this is like a blessing that’s given to guys that they do not exploit.[00:25:41] Simone Collins: For real.[00:25:41] Malcolm Collins: Like-[00:25:42] Simone Collins: Yeah ...[00:25:42] Malcolm Collins: guys don’t walk around carrying their, you know, turn-ons in a little package under their, their, their hand.[00:25:49] Mm. And also I’ll note here, if you, because there’s been a big change in the way these books are marketed a lot of guys might be like, “But my wife doesn’t read stuff like that, you know?” “She just likes fantasy books,” my brother in Christ.[00:26:01] Simone Collins: Oh, fantasy books. Yes.[00:26:04] Malcolm Collins: Fantasy books. “She just likes romance.”[00:26:06] Mm-hmm ... so what’s important to note is the Fabio buff guy on the cover books of our childhoods that sort of are the cartoon version in our heads of what romance books look like is not what any of these bestsellers look like. They’re typically like abstract very sort of like- Patterned[00:26:26] Simone Collins: titles.[00:26:26] Yeah ...[00:26:27] Malcolm Collins: h- h- like maybe a skull or like, with like a rose growing in it. Or Simone’s favorite that she walked by was just a money clip. She’s like-[00:26:36] Simone Collins: That was perfect. That, that is the best book cover- They just got[00:26:39] Malcolm Collins: straight to the[00:26:39] Simone Collins: point with that one ... I’ve ever seen. Yeah.[00:26:40] Malcolm Collins: Or like, you know, geometric shapes and sort of an artistic pattern that looks sort of vague.[00:26:45] The[00:26:45] Simone Collins: money clip is the same. It’s that, it’s the, that anime face. That is the money clip, but for a woman.[00:26:51] Malcolm Collins: It’s the, it’s the anime face or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Gotta, gotta put one here for reference- ...[00:26:58] of a, a Puritan woman doing it. I, I love that I do that- Oh, God ... with this show, with the[00:27:02] Simone Collins: anime Puritan woman.[00:27:04] You are... Whatever. What are we gonna do with you?[00:27:09] Malcolm Collins: So many scenes happen when they are injured, exhausted, or in high danger situations, so the arousal is mixed with adrenaline and emotional intensity. That sounds you know, like probably not the best use of your time in those sorts of situations.[00:27:22] Simone Collins: Yeah, if you’re trying to survive. Also, like, women aren’t so turned on when they’re tired. Can, can say that much.[00:27:29] Malcolm Collins: Their relationship has a clear dominant/submissive sexual texture, even when the characters are emotionally equal partners. He leads, she yields and enjoys yielding. Mm-hmm. We talked a bit about this one, A Court of Thorns and Roses.[00:27:43] Simone Collins: Yeah, we talked about that already.[00:27:44] Malcolm Collins: Yeah, yeah. But just to go over what happens in it. Multiple-[00:27:47] Simone Collins: Well, not a lot of sex, I can tell you that much ...[00:27:51] Malcolm Collins: multiple powerful fae males are physically and magically far stronger than the heroine. Smex scenes are long, detailed, and [00:28:00] often aggressive.[00:28:01] Simone Collins: Common- Not from my memory.[00:28:03] Okay. Aggressive? No. It’s just, u- unless I’m misremembering the book series, it’s just dudes going down on her, which is super not my thing.[00:28:13] Malcolm Collins: So I don’t- Common elements, the male’s losing control, pinning the female against the walls or surfaces.[00:28:18] Simone Collins: Oh.[00:28:19] Malcolm Collins: Hair pulling- Just, just- ... biting, and very explicit depictions of organs.[00:28:25] Simone Collins: Oh, yeah, this was different. Yeah, right, this was the other one. Sorry, I’m thinking of a different... They’re all like- Yeah, this is the one- The titles are all the freaking same.[00:28:32] Malcolm Collins: You get very annoyed with organ descriptions.[00:28:35] Simone Collins: I, well, especially if it’s female body parts. That’s not my, that’s not my game. Like, ladies, stop.[00:28:44] Just we’re not-[00:28:44] Malcolm Collins: I think a lot of women feel this way. We were talking on the Leaflet stream, and she says she’s the exact same way. Like, she-[00:28:49] Simone Collins: Yeah, dude ...[00:28:50] Malcolm Collins: like, the female body shape, she’s like, “Yeah, f- fine. It looks good.” Leave it. But, like, the organ- Yeah,[00:28:53] Simone Collins: no ... mm-hmm. The shape is great. Leave the... Look, we don’t need Alien-style slime, slime puppets, okay?[00:29:01] We don’t it’s not not my thing. Anyway, moving on.[00:29:06] Malcolm Collins: Sl- so strong mate, fated ownership theme. Once the bond snaps, the smex becomes even more possessive and frequent. The male often talks about needing to be inside of her, claiming her, and filling her. Now this is important to note because if you’re a guy and you’re thinking you’re in a marriage, you’re like, “What, what do women like?”[00:29:26] Knowing th- this stuff, because a lot of people in our wider community, they get, what’s the word I’m looking for here? Pilled by what’s her name? We’ve talked with her a few times, a British lady.[00:29:40] And doesn’t like sex. But like all of the British female-[00:29:42] Simone Collins: Doesn’t like porn. Doesn’t like porn,[00:29:45] Malcolm Collins: I’m sure. No, no, no, no. She, she thinks that, like, the only reason why, like, slapping and choking or whatever are, like, in the, in the public are because of men.[00:29:53] Simone Collins: Okay, well, that- like- ... maybe she hasn’t explored her sexuality or maybe she’s one of the very few women out there who isn’t primarily oriented around power dynamics.[00:30:02] But, ah, I had her name in my head for a... Louise Perry. There we go.[00:30:06] Malcolm Collins: Louise Perry, yes. But-[00:30:07] Simone Collins: It came in, it came in. All right ...[00:30:09] Malcolm Collins: and then there’s the other one. Who’s the other one who, who’s often complaining about this stuff? It’s like every female, white female from the UK is convinced that women are not into this stuff.[00:30:17] Simone Collins: Look- ... it’s, yeah, something about repressed sexuality in the UK.[00:30:22] Malcolm Collins: But, but the problem is, is that repressed sexuality leads to either wives who are dissatisfied- Yeah ... or husbands who are dissatisfied and they end up strapping boobs to themselves and getting caught mo- w***e-whoring. Neither of that happened- Well, but[00:30:37] Simone Collins: that was America.[00:30:38] That was America, okay?[00:30:40] Malcolm Collins: But- Yeah, but it was clearly a couple that was unable to talk about their sexual patterns- Yeah ... because the wife thought he was gay.[00:30:45] Simone Collins: Not good. Yeah.[00:30:46] And he very- And don’t, don’t repress your... Yeah, ‘cause then it can also lead to ac- yeah, lead to acting out. You don’t want that. No one wants that.[00:30:52] You know how I knew that the female gooner movement has reached the stra- the stratosphere?[00:30:58] Malcolm Collins: How?[00:30:59] Simone Collins: The movie Wicker. We, we’ve gone from very, very popular books to now mainstream big movies with, like, lead, like, famous leading actors. So Wicker the preview for this movie just came out stars Alexander Skarsgard, Peter Dinklage, and Olivia Coleman.[00:31:19] I love Olivia Coleman. I mean, everyone knows Peter Dinklage from Elf, from Game of Thrones, from, like, everything he’s in. And women really like Alexander Skarsgard at least. And[00:31:30] Here, you have it? Okay, good. Watch it[00:31:33] Speaker: Oh. Um, oh.[00:31:37] Speaker 6: Love seems more a burden than a prize.[00:31:48] Speaker 2: I heard that he’s strong as a tree and just as hard[00:31:53] Speaker 10: Is wicca Straighten me right out.[00:31:59] Speaker 9: [00:32:00] You are the reason I live and breathe.[00:32:03] Speaker 10: It’s not natural. Men are not like that.[00:32:06] Speaker 2: F**k[00:32:06] Speaker 9: off. F**k off.[00:32:07] Speaker 11: Yeah, f**k off.[00:32:08] Speaker 12: I’ll be fixing the bed this afternoon[00:32:15] It broke again.[00:32:18] Simone Collins: Your face. What? What? What? So you can see we’ve reached mainstream. No, you, you, you haven’t read these books. You don’t understand what women are reading about-[00:32:32] Malcolm Collins: Did you read those books? ...[00:32:33] Simone Collins: in these books. I d- I don’t know if this was a book, but let me read you some of the top comments. We’ve got, “So it’s erotic scarecrow story.”[00:32:42] And someone else said, “My monster romance lover heart is screaming with joy right now.” Someone else said, “Can someone make an Alexander Skarsgard for me?” Someone says, “This looks so weird. I’m so excited.” Someone else said, “The fan fiction is about to be lit.” Someone else commented- ... “So many jealousy guys in here, LMAO.”[00:33:01] And this is probably referring to dudes comments like, “How down bad you gotta be to want to get cracked a literally talking basket?” I, I think he meant to say cracked by. Someone said, “50 Shades of Hay,” which- 50 Shades of Hay ...[00:33:15] Malcolm Collins: good. That’s a good[00:33:16] Simone Collins: one. “This will hold me over until Bridgerton comes back.”[00:33:19] That’s a big Netflix thing that we all love if we’re ladies. Someone says- But I, I,[00:33:22] Malcolm Collins: I also think from this, what’s important to note is when I’m talking about these different books and these different profiles- ... I’m merely talking about one of the dominant profiles. Mm-hmm. You can tell that with this woman, right, what she was clearly into or, like, the arousal profile is not domination in this one.[00:33:41] In this one, it’s being really obsessed with your partner. Mm-hmm. And deeply wanting to please your partner. Mm-hmm. That is the arousal profile being checked here.[00:33:50] Simone Collins: Look, with men and with women, and this is kind of like the sad, boring thing about sex, ‘cause I wish it were more interesting than this.[00:33:57] But when you look at most erotic material online, I’m not saying the niche stuff because that’s more interesting to look at. See, it might get a little bit more attention. But when you look at... And Ayla’s research backs this up completely. What people love is a partner, male or female, who just needs you so bad and, like, has to have[00:34:19] Malcolm Collins: you I also wanna point out that this guy is a slave.[00:34:22] Simone Collins: Look, okay? Like,[00:34:25] Malcolm Collins: y-[00:34:25] Simone Collins: You know, The,[00:34:26] Malcolm Collins: the, the woman went and bought a, a sentient hominid to be her smex slave.[00:34:34] Simone Collins: A t- he’s a wicker. He’s a sentient basket, okay? Also, Alexander Skarsgard, that was all practical effects. He wore a wicker costume for that movie.[00:34:46] Malcolm Collins: It looks really[00:34:47] Simone Collins: good. This poor man. No, it’s really well done.[00:34:48] I’m so glad to see more practical effects coming back. Like, don’t bring back the slimy puppets. I’m so done with the ‘80s, but I’m ready for, like-[00:34:56] Malcolm Collins: Slimy puppets. In the ‘80s, someone found out they can put slime on a puppet-[00:34:59] Simone Collins: And they were like- ...[00:35:00] Malcolm Collins: and the film industry afterwards was just like, “Yeah, we got it for the next decade and a half.”[00:35:06] They[00:35:06] Simone Collins: were like- For sure. Like, you can see someone with their, their power shoulders in the ‘80s board, boardroom, being like, “Two words, gentlemen, slimy puppets.” Puppets. That[00:35:14] Malcolm Collins: was it. That was it. Next one here, The Hunting of Adeline. Oh, okay. The core dynamic, an extreme stalker obsession- Oh ... plus non-consensual to consensual progression.[00:35:26] Ugh. Dark power exchange. The hero is violent, obsessive stalker who watches the heroine, breaks into her home and initiates, well, SA, basically- Yeah, it sounds like he- ... without clear[00:35:38] Simone Collins: consent ... surprise un-fun sex with her.[00:35:39] Malcolm Collins: Early scenes contain explicit non-consent forced elements. She is restrained, overpowered, and taken while protesting.[00:35:46] These scenes are written as highly arousing for the hero and- Mm-hmm ... eventually for the heroine as well, and obviously the reader, because it’s a bestseller. Wow ... later the dynamic shifts to an intense consensual, [00:36:00] a rough stuff, restraint, degradation- Oh, boy ... and possessiveness- Ugh ... remains extreme still.[00:36:05] Simone Collins: I don’t like the messages this sends. It’s like, look, just stalk her, surprise sex her against her consent, and then, like, she’ll realize just how amazing you are.[00:36:15] Malcolm Collins: Heavy focus on the psychological intensity of being hunted and claimed which- Great ... a lot of women are into that. Yes. The Dark Mafia. That, you know, oh-[00:36:24] Simone Collins: The dark...[00:36:24] No, mafia’s big in all this stuff. You can also see, like, mafia tropes show up a lot in the female, more female-centric AI chat platforms, too.[00:36:33] Malcolm Collins: Yeah, you tried that with your first not safe for work AI chat.[00:36:36] Simone Collins: Look, I’ve done so, I have done so many NSFW AI, AI scenarios, and- I think it goes to show how, like, both autistic and/or asexual I am because I’ve never encountered a sexual scenario once in any of these, and I’m going straight to the NSFW ones, and I keep going like, “When’s the sex gonna happen?”[00:36:58] Like, I don’t know, man. It doesn’t happen. Hm. I don’t know. What am I doing wrong? Anyway.[00:37:06] Malcolm Collins: There’s a lot of ownership, like you’re mine that, that sort of stuff.[00:37:10] Simone Collins: Yeah ...[00:37:11] Malcolm Collins: the heroine is forced into marriage. Oh ... you know, it, it, it, it, again, coercion it, with it eventually becoming addictive.[00:37:19] Simone Collins: Of course.[00:37:20] Malcolm Collins: Right.[00:37:20] But,[00:37:20] Simone Collins: Like we’ve pointed out that arranged marriages typically last long, you know?[00:37:24] Malcolm Collins: Yeah. I think the, the what guys fundamentally miss, or the, the biggest thing that guys miss, or you’re fusing. One is, is getting sucked in by this Louise Perry nonsense, okay? Like learn what your woman is actually into.[00:37:35] Simone Collins: Exes. Or yeah, that, that porn is damaging is very annoying.[00:37:38] Malcolm Collins: Well or especially that like female gooner stuff is like why all of these kinks exist, when we see them all the way back to the 1800s.[00:37:45] Simone Collins: Yeah.[00:37:45] Malcolm Collins: Y- like, like BDSM is literally traditionally called the English vice, right? Like-[00:37:50] Simone Collins: Also, like men, from my understanding just aren’t that...[00:37:54] Most men are not that into it. When, when you, again, when you look at the most popular erotic content the men have. And also now I, I, you know- Oh,[00:38:02] Malcolm Collins: God, and we might just do a whole episode on this ‘cause it’s been really interesting. So for the last few weeks Simone has been designing and running at scale erotic ads for our website.[00:38:12] Simone Collins: Yeah. And- And it’s so disappointing which ads perform best. And it’s just-[00:38:15] Malcolm Collins: Through doing that- ...[00:38:16] Simone Collins: men being approached by very comfortable and very enthusiastic basically close friends. Men don’t wanna like hunt someone. That’s work. They don’t wanna tie them up. It’s like their roommate or- That’s work.[00:38:26] Hunting, learn knots. I don’t wanna buy rope. What are you talking about? Who’s time for that? They wanna sit. Literally right now our most popular ad by like millions, it, it is insane how well this, this... And it’s two versions of the same ad. I’m so disappointed, is the horny roommate, you know, you’re, you’re the dude sitting on the couch watching a soccer game.[00:38:46] Horny roommate comes in and is like, “Roomie, I’m horny.” She’s wearing, she’s not wearing lingerie. Of course she’s not wearing, that’s for women. Women wear lingerie for themselves. No, she’s wearing a sweatshirt and panties. And then she sits on your lap and she’s like, “Oh.” And she takes off her shirt and of course she is lovely.[00:39:00] I[00:39:00] Malcolm Collins: like it that you know the male mind. I know the male, yes. A sweatshirt and panties being so much better than lingerie in the male[00:39:07] Simone Collins: mind. They just want women comfort- they just want women comfortable. They just want women into them and comfortable.[00:39:11] Speaker 13: . I’m more turned on by women in pajamas than lingerie. I just wanna know they feel comfortable.[00:39:15] Simone Collins: And frankly- And[00:39:16] Malcolm Collins: meanwhile women want a, a basket.[00:39:19] That just...[00:39:23] Yep. Mm-hmm. But the thing is, is- Sorry. In a, in a relationship, one, one of the other reasons I’m pro a lot of this content is- Mm-hmm ... is I think it’s an enormous waste of time if you focus on both the male and female making sure they’re filling all of their partner’s needs within these categories. But I think just because you’re not filling all of your partner’s needs in these categories doesn’t mean that they should be going to something outside the relationship for them.[00:39:50] Like that’s, that’s what a lot of other people say. Like, “Oh, then you should go outside the relationship,” or, “Your partner should literally be your flashlight.” Like, that’s like the two options, right? And it’s like how about neither? [00:40:00][00:40:00] Simone Collins: Yeah. For real. Like do you really need this?[00:40:06] Malcolm Collins: And w- a fun thing here is if you take our interpretation of the Adam and Eve story-[00:40:13] Simone Collins: Mm ...[00:40:14] Malcolm Collins: where we point out that it is not a sin to be nude in front of your wife in the outdoors where only God can see you. Like nowhere is that a sin, anywhere is that a sin. And, and that, you know, Adam clothes himself ‘cause he thinks it.[00:40:27] So he’s like, oh, you know. That shows that like knowledge of good and evil means knowledge of good and evil in opposition to God, like him deciding eating the apple was good even though God told him- Mm-hmm ... it wasn’t good.[00:40:36] Simone Collins: Mm.[00:40:38] Malcolm Collins: G- his reaction to that is the second sin. So, or, or not the second sin, but, but really tied to original sin.[00:40:45] Yeah. So to make up sexual prohibitions that have nothing, no correlate in the Bible and are strictly deleterious to people’s lives to do that is literally like to participate in original sin. To participate in that thing that Adam did the moment-[00:41:03] Simone Collins: Sorry, wait, to wear clothes around your wife?[00:41:06] Malcolm Collins: No.[00:41:07] S- the, the, the first thing that Adam did that sort of compounded the original sin was to attempt to clothe himself even though he was only naked in front of his wife and God, right? Like-[00:41:18] Simone Collins: Yeah.[00:41:18] Malcolm Collins: Mm-hmm ... and so that’s inventing a sexual prohibition just because you personally feel uncomfortable about something.[00:41:25] Simone Collins: Oh, that’s sinful. Okay, okay. Yeah, thanks, sorry.[00:41:28] Malcolm Collins: W- which is interesting to me that these sorts of prohibitions are so tied up in original sin.[00:41:33] Simone Collins: Mm.[00:41:33] Malcolm Collins: Inventing-[00:41:34] Simone Collins: Oh, I love that ... prohibitions. Oh, man. We need to, we need to pull that on these people more. Sorry, I’m gonna have to file that away in my terrible memory.[00:41:42] Now,[00:41:42] Malcolm Collins: obviously we invent prohibitions where it ends up helping people, but in this sort of a category you know, most men are never gonna be billionaires, so how is your wife gonna get off to the billionaire... Most men are never gonna be werewolves either, or vampires.[00:41:54] Simone Collins: Damn.[00:41:55] Malcolm Collins: Damn.[00:41:56] Simone Collins: Oh, no. Look, though, you can go, a lot of dentists, like actual cosmetic dentists, will put on vampire canines.[00:42:04] Malcolm Collins: Yeah, really[00:42:05] Simone Collins: nice vampire canines. I, I would be... You know what? Like, when our whole family gets older, and if we have a lot of money someday, I just want all of us to suddenly, like all of us, the kids, you know, like, the, the teens, of course, with consent, but, like, and us too, to all have vampire teeth.[00:42:17] Malcolm Collins: Do, do vampire teeth?[00:42:18] I’d[00:42:19] Simone Collins: be totally for that. Come on, like the whole family. What a great look that would be.[00:42:21] Malcolm Collins: Vampire teeth are hot. I can say vampire[00:42:24] Simone Collins: teeth are hot. No, no, I think, no, I think vampire teeth always look good regardless of i- if you’re into vampires or not. I think they just give you kind of an extra edge. I think they make a smile look really good.[00:42:32] I know that they annoy dentists and stuff. Yeah, you don’t make them[00:42:34] Malcolm Collins: comically big. You just do the subtle[00:42:36] Simone Collins: kind. No, no, no, they’re subtle. Trust me, they’re subtle. I think, was it Strange Aeons who got them or something? I definitely saw someone get them, and it looked really good, and I was like, “Oh my God,” like, “I need to find a dentist around here to do this for me.”[00:42:47] But Malcolm, please, let this be push present for kid number whatever, okay? We all- Ugh ... get vampire teeth. Well, obviously with our kids’ consent, you know? They, no one has to do it if they don’t want to. But c- what kid is not gonna want permanent vampire teeth?[00:43:03] Malcolm Collins: They clean up with the women, I’ll tell you what[00:43:05] Simone Collins: I’m telling you, right?[00:43:06] Like oh my God, I’m so excited for this. Please tell me we’re gonna do this. Oh, the, the vampire family.[00:43:14] Malcolm Collins: The, that’d be such a thing. Yes It’d be like a I, I d- w- that’d be one of the first things I’d genetically engineer once we can genetically engineer- Oh ... Collinses.[00:43:22] Simone Collins: You wouldn’t need to because I had incredibly sharp canines.[00:43:25] They just shaved them down.[00:43:26] Malcolm Collins: Okay, they[00:43:27] Simone Collins: Without my consent, by the way. God.[00:43:30] Malcolm Collins: So[00:43:30] Simone Collins: anyway- One of the most traumatic events of my childhood[00:43:33] Malcolm Collins: But so, yeah, d- that’s the joke about us. Joe Rogan says I’m secretly a vampire on, on the show. They had the crash out about that. You- It’s- ... not about... That’s like Deep Collins where Vi Leaflet always makes us vampires in her videos.[00:43:44] You know?[00:43:46] Simone Collins: It’s, no, you gotta... Malcolm, please, we’re just doing this. Never mind. I, I, we’re, I’m gonna, I’ll just, I’ll just book us one day with, with the kids’ consent, obviously. Not your consent. You don’t, you don’t get to... Y- you’re just gonna do this. I don’t care if you, [00:44:00] I don’t care if you care ‘cause you’ll look really good, Malcolm.[00:44:05] Malcolm Collins: Mm. Oh, the, the, the one that we were talking about, Zodiac Academy, Yeah ... extreme bully romance, enemies to lovers, very prolonged. The early books feature heavy bullying, public humiliation, physical violence, magical attacks, stripping, hair cutting forced exposure of, of fears, and sexual harassment.[00:44:23] Oh, I[00:44:23] Simone Collins: feel like I might have read this one, actually. Oh, God, I’m sorry.[00:44:26] Malcolm Collins: The same men who degraded and controlled the heroines eventually become the ones they have intense blank with.[00:44:33] Simone Collins: Oh, heroines? Okay, then I haven’t read that one. There’s only one... Never mind. I’m not gonna-[00:44:37] Malcolm Collins: And they have a reverse harem.[00:44:38] Both of the twins- Reverse ... end up with multiple high status male characters rather than choosing one. Oh, it’s[00:44:43] Simone Collins: Gemini. Oh, they’re Gemini, how cute. Do they end up with other Gemini boys? That’d be so cute. Oh my God, twin[00:44:50] Malcolm Collins: Strong power imbalance. The males... Well, you talked about one you were reading recently that was horny that was, or maybe I watched somebody else, that was about the lost boys.[00:45:01] Simone Collins: No, I haven’t heard about this. It’s[00:45:02] Malcolm Collins: like a Peter Pan fan work.[00:45:03] Simone Collins: I was telling you about Peter Pan the other day, but it wasn’t horny.[00:45:08] Malcolm Collins: But apparently she, like, got passed around- I was telling you- ... a- among the, the lost boys[00:45:14] Simone Collins: What? No. Ew, no. Look, Wendy was- They’re all aged up[00:45:17] Malcolm Collins: in[00:45:17] Simone Collins: this one ... Wendy was very chaste.[00:45:19] It’s Tinker Bell who’s the obvious slut. Like, she literally, Tinker Bell wanted to kill, and almost effectively killed Wendy by getting the lost b- the, the lost boys to sh- shoot her with an arrow when she came in to Never Never Land, ‘cause she needed Peter’s giant you know what in her-[00:45:39] Malcolm Collins: She was thirsty as hell.[00:45:40] Simone Collins: Yes, she was. Sh- murderously thirsty. That’s,[00:45:45] Malcolm Collins: Disney used to teach us important lessons, guys.[00:45:47] Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah.[00:45:51] Malcolm Collins: Which is small chicks[00:45:53] Simone Collins: are murderously thirsty. But wasn’t that was J.M. Barrie? Disney, I don’t think Disney... I don’t know if Disney included that part in the movie, but J.M. Barrie definitely did. She’s like, “It’s the Wendy bird, shoot the Wendy bird.”[00:46:02] And they all shot the Wendy bird. They were so excited.[00:46:06] Malcolm Collins: Oh, my God.[00:46:07] Simone Collins: Or maybe it was just Tootles who shot her. Anyway, let’s,[00:46:09] Malcolm Collins: Wrap it up. That’s what she said. Wrap it... You’re such a twat.[00:46:17] Simone Collins: Mm, I know.[00:46:19] Malcolm Collins: We actually, I, yeah, I’ve talked to some members of the community whose parents tried this, like, e- extremely, like, no P-I- Vampire teeth? No, no PIV sex until marriage, but, like, corn is totally okay.[00:46:30] Simone Collins: Oh,[00:46:30] Malcolm Collins: yeah. And, ‘cause I wanted to see, like, what happened in the, in the religious families that, that- Mm-hmm[00:46:34] went with this angle. And like, all of them are married and have kids.[00:46:36] Simone Collins: No, I, I think that that’s the way to go. I think I, I am surprisingly to, I guess my past, I guess I never Sex before, sex outside of marriage does not make sense. It just, it, it has hurt dating markets, it doesn’t help people, it’s not super fun.[00:46:54] Yeah,[00:46:54] Malcolm Collins: I’m not- It’s pretty risky ... I’m super anti it now. Yeah. And that’s like a new thing for me this year.[00:46:57] Simone Collins: Like, there’s just nothing really good that comes from it. And, and, and the- ... and the collateral damage it causes is profoundly horrible. It’s, it doesn’t even really help the men who can access it in the first place, because they end up sort of, like, never committing and never ending up with that happy, satisfying life that ultimately they, they must desire.[00:47:15] Oh, it’s the worst type[00:47:15] Malcolm Collins: of masturbation, because you, you think you’re actually doing something. Mm-hmm. When you’re doing nothing more than masturbating with another person.[00:47:22] Simone Collins: Yeah, yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s horrible. It’s, it’s really horrible. I, yeah, I’m, I’m super, super against it, which is, I mean, we really were way more liberal about sex years- Early[00:47:31] Malcolm Collins: on, yeah[00:47:31] Simone Collins: like two years ago. Yeah. A year ago probably.[00:47:35] Malcolm Collins: Woo.[00:47:36] Simone Collins: There’s a new another movie that came out, or I think it’s... Yeah, I think it came out. I tried to watch it streaming. It’s not even streaming yet. I think it’s only in, in theaters. I think it’s called One Night Only, and it’s about a world in which you’re not allowed to have premarital sex.[00:47:49] And it’s, it’s like a rom-com. It’s, it’s, according to reports, fine, cute. Not the offensive thing that, that many online commentators are saying it is, ‘cause they’re like, “Oh, this is the [00:48:00] world we’re going to,” and everything. But like, why are all these women defending, like, their right to be mistreated by men, basically?[00:48:10] To, like, be used and dumped by men who never planned on committing to them anyway, to be lied to by men who imply that they are[00:48:17] Malcolm Collins: interested? Yeah, they’re like, “What a terrible world that would be, where you can’t have casual...” Yeah. Wait, women should want that world. That world is, like- That,[00:48:23] Simone Collins: yeah ... completely better.[00:48:24] That is, that is... You should be fighting for this. Like, this should be the female thing. Like, not... And yet they’re acting like, “Oh, men are for...” Men are not for... No, men are not for a single... Men are very happy to keep things the way they are, to their detriment. So anyway, yeah, there’s, you know, between One Night Only and Wicker, got some interesting- Mm[00:48:43] um, interesting stuff out there in terms of the state of affairs.[00:48:49] Malcolm Collins: All right, Simone.[00:48:50] Simone Collins: Love you.[00:48:51] Malcolm Collins: Love you too.[00:48:53] I am working on another one right now, Simone, that I’m so excited about. And the data for it... Can you hear me?[00:48:59] Simone Collins: Yes.[00:49:01] Malcolm Collins: Is really fascinating. And the question is, how come almost every single time in human history somebody has written out a unique eschatology and worldview, a successful religion is born from it?[00:49:19] Which goes against a lot of intuitions that people would have. Obviously, there’s exceptions. If it’s obviously just schizophrenic ramblings, it doesn’t work. I- but other than that, almost every single time somebody has sat down and, Hold on[00:49:42] Written down a world perspective it has... E- even when the founders have explicitly said, “Don’t make a church around this. Don’t make a religion around this,” people have gone on and made a religion about it.[00:49:54] Simone Collins: We have to do a whole thing on this.[00:49:56] Malcolm Collins: That’s too good. Even when it’s patently stupid like the white guy who created the Black supremacist cult by stealing from another thing that he went to, right?[00:50:06] Simone Collins: Oh, Church of Islam? That guy?[00:50:08] Malcolm Collins: Yeah, the Church of, yeah, the Church of... We have to, I have to- Is it called the Church of the something? Oh,[00:50:11] Simone Collins: sorry. Yeah,[00:50:12] Malcolm Collins: Isn’t[00:50:12] Simone Collins: it, oh my gosh, with Jacob?[00:50:14] Malcolm Collins: Is it Jewish Muslim something?[00:50:16] Simone Collins: Religion. I’m just gonna say Yacob religion[00:50:18] Malcolm Collins: Yeah, the, the Yacob religion What[00:50:19] Simone Collins: is the Yacob religion?[00:50:22] Malcolm Collins: It’s[00:50:26] Simone Collins: Nation of Islam. The Nation of Islam[00:50:28] Malcolm Collins: And this is often very surprising to people because like an AI, like I was talking with an AI about it, and the AI was like, “Well, you know, religions rarely work out.” And I go, “Can you name one? Can you name one where somebody actually wrote down, not a deviant sect, not a cult of personality, but an actual fully written religion?”[00:50:51] By the way, do you know that our writings, the techno-puritan writings, are already 40% larger than the core Mormon corpus?[00:50:59] Simone Collins: Really? Whoa.[00:51:00] Malcolm Collins: Yeah.[00:51:01] Simone Collins: The Book of Mormon. 46%, actually. Really?[00:51:03] Malcolm Collins: Well, The Book of Mormon and The Pearl of Great Price and the, Well, they[00:51:06] Simone Collins: had to write that by hand, Malcolm ... all of them. So.[00:51:09] Malcolm Collins: Yeah, yeah.[00:51:09] Simone Collins: Well- And they were also translating- And he was illiterate ... from the golden plates that they were looking at. So[00:51:13] Malcolm Collins: he had to have somebody else write for him.[00:51:15] Simone Collins: Really, was he looking in a bag? He was looking in a bag, right? Was it a bag? A hat. A h- a hat. I’m sorry, I’m sorry. A hat, a hat.[00:51:21] Malcolm Collins: He’s looking in a hat.[00:51:23] Simone Collins: Well, look, that takes, that’s a, so that’s a lot harder to write than-[00:51:25] Malcolm Collins: But the, the question is, is why does it, why is the starting of a religious or philosophical movement the writing it down, the authorship, and not, you know, it existing? Like a startup or something like that, or virtually every other movement in every other period in human history.[00:51:45] Hmm. And the answer is just, like, really fascinating to dig into, but you have to sort of dig through them all. The core reason is there’s just not... The, the core motivation to do it is to exploit people. Like, the, the core reason you would do it is [00:52:00] because you want to exploit other people out of money and stuff like that.[00:52:04] Simone Collins: Hmm.[00:52:04] Malcolm Collins: And so most of the people who do it are con artists. Whereas people who are looking for, like, a better future, there’s been a few of them that have been like, “Oh, religion is clearly good.” Yeah. But then they attempt to build something that’s, like, overly human focused.[00:52:19] Simone Collins: Hmm.[00:52:20] Malcolm Collins: Anyway, the, that’s ver- very fun.[00:52:21] I, we’ll, we’ll do, like, a an- an- anthropology of it, but I’m, I’m having a lot of fun looking at that.[00:52:26] Simone Collins: Oh, I’m s- I’m super excited for that. We’re, we’re going hard on religion lately, but I’m, I’m here for it, and I’m, I’m super-[00:52:33] Malcolm Collins: Yeah, our fans seem to be having fun ... super, yeah. That, that last episode we did was definitely one of my favorites,[00:52:37] Simone Collins: Ever.[00:52:37] Oh, that was- Probably my favorite[00:52:38] Malcolm Collins: ever ...[00:52:39] Simone Collins: that was good. Well, come on. What episode has had a companion webpage?[00:52:42] Malcolm Collins: Yeah.[00:52:42] Simone Collins: With graphs and pictures that are original. Yeah, that’s, that was pretty good.[00:52:47] Malcolm Collins: Somebody on the Discord was like, “Malcolm’s going, you know, full AI hallucination mode or whatever,” and, and, and had three down votes.[00:52:53] It’s the first time, I didn’t even know you could make down votes on the Discord. But, like, people are like- Oh, wow ... “No, this is, this is awesome. Like, let’s, let’s do more of this stuff.”[00:53:01] Simone Collins: Well, yeah. Someone’s gotta be mad.[00:53:05] It’s necessary ...[00:53:06] Malcolm Collins: I, I was also talking with an AI about, like, what’s the core trick that Malcolm uses to keep making the, the things work.[00:53:16] Like, he’ll say, “Oh, the, you know, monist materialist framing.” And then he’ll go to the books, and he will quote them extensively. You know, not picking specific passages, but literally every time something is mentioned in one of the books. And I would... I, I s- wanted to see if Fable could get, like, what’s the core trick that I use.[00:53:33] And Fable immediately got it. It was like, “Well, it’s because the books are monist and materialist in their framing.” All of the non-monist materialist framings came hundreds of years after the New Testament. And w- but because people grow up not knowing that what they don’t realize is that you can actually have maximum strength to your engagement by saying, “Oh yeah, just go read the text.[00:53:57] Go read the...” And then what the AI did is act- actually, multiple Christian groups throughout history have realized this and then immediately put some sort of cap on this framing because they were afraid of the consequences to their community if it became more widespread. Like the Chrysotonians or something which is a, a large movement that’s, that’s very focused.[00:54:19] But it, it’s like yeah, techno-puritanism has always been the end state of Protestantism and Puritanism because it’s what anybody comes to if they actually read the text in their origi- with their original historic context.[00:54:31] Simone Collins: Darn tootin’.[00:54:31] Malcolm Collins: Which I thought was fun. I like that, you know?[00:54:32] Simone Collins: Yeah, I do like that.[00:54:33] I like that too.[00:54:35] Malcolm Collins: Because it is true. I mean, that’s, that’s fundamentally the trick I’m using is, it’s the what you have been told is a lie about what the books argue, and it’s what pretty much all academics agree. Even religious academics. They’re just like, “Our understanding has evolved since it.” In the same way that you would think that you know more about religion than Abraham, but you would still consider Abraham a Jew even though he didn’t even have the laws of Moses yet, right?[00:54:57] You know. So that’s, that’s the way that the modern educated religious academics think about this stuff. And then no one has had the balls to just be like, “Nope, the Bible’s actually correct and true. I’m sorry, guys.”[00:55:10] Simone Collins: Well, without bending our actual understanding of historical geology and evolution, et cetera, so yeah.[00:55:20] Malcolm Collins: Well, no, no. Th- they’ve, they’ve just been unwilling to say it, because what the Bible argues for is a monist materialist framework, because that’s what Jews of that period believed in.[00:55:28] Simone Collins: Mm.[00:55:29] Malcolm Collins: Of, of the period of around when Jesus was alive. It’s just that the understanding evolved significantly in the 300 years after his death which is where you get the people being like, “Well, you don’t believe the Nicene Creed, so you’re not really a Christian.”[00:55:41] And it’s like, well, that had literally nothing to do with Jesus, right? Like...[00:55:45] Simone Collins: Yeah.[00:55:47] Malcolm Collins: Anyway I’ll get started here.[00:55:52] Speaker 15: Bryton. I’ll hold the gummies for you. Thank you. Gummies. Gummies. I need gummies. Hi, [00:56:00] Professor. Hi, Professor. Hi, helicopter. Oh, helicopter’s gonna follow you. All right, let’s go[00:56:14] Professor and helicopter, fast friends This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit basedcamppodcast.substack.com/subscribe