The Great AI Unraveling, Part 2: Tiokasin Ghosthorse & Pooja Prema

This is the second gathering in SAND's ongoing series on AI and the human spirit — and it takes a deliberately different rhythm. Rather than asking "is AI safe?" or "will it take our jobs?", Tiokasin Ghosthorse and Pooja Prema invite us to slow down and ask the deeper questions: What cosmology is AI extending? What is intelligence, really? And what happens when the earth-based, organic, living intelligence of Indigenous and ancestral ways of knowing gets replaced by a synthetic one? A spacious, felt-sense conversation that asks us to remember what a living mind actually is. Timestamps 00:00 — Welcome & framing the deeper questions 00:04 — Opening body practice: tuning into felt sense before speaking 00:07 — Tiokasin: AI as the latest ship on the shore — colonization in a new form 00:17 — "There is no artificial intuition" — what technology cannot replace 00:18 — Pooja: the cosmology behind AI — colonial linearity vs. the curving motherboard of Earth 00:25 — AI as the latest savior narrative — and why that story keeps repeating 00:45 — Who owns the data? Who controls the intelligence? The politics of AI 01:05 — AI as therapist, AI replacing elders — the cost to young people and mental health 01:10 — Ghost in the Machine: how to resist empire over the long game 01:15 — Closing: "Our body is the mystic" — an invitation to make this a living inquiry Guests Tiokasin Ghosthorse is a member of the Cheyenne River Lakota Nation and lifelong Indigenous activist. He is the founder and host of First Voices Radio, which broadcast for 33 years before its final episode in July 2025. He was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize in 2016, is a National Native American Hall of Fame nominee, and a master musician who performs worldwide. He describes himself simply as "a perfectly flawed human being." He is also featured in SAND's film The Eternal Song. Pooja Prema is a first-generation Indian American writer, multidisciplinary artist, and ritualist from Kerala, South India. Her work weaves ecofeminism, decolonial somatic practice, and animistic cosmologies. She is the founder of The Rites of Passage Project and The Ritual Theatre. Her work has been featured at the Kennedy Center, Ebony Magazine, and NPR. Resources & Links Tiokasin Ghosthorse Akantu Intelligence — website First Voices Radio — archive Featured in The Eternal Song — SAND film Pooja Prema Website: poojaprema.com The Rites of Passage Project The Ritual Theatre Instagram: @thecabinwitch Film referenced Ghost in the Machine — documentary directed by Valerie Veatch, Sundance 2026 — traces the buried history of AI and its roots in eugenics, racism, and colonial power. Featuring Tasheka Lavann on how indigenous nations are resisting data centers and how we resist empire over generations. Concepts discussed Conspecific aggression — Tiokasin's term for what happens when a species competes so aggressively over shared resources that it turns on itself Present-phobic language — technology as a tool for escaping the present into an imagined future The real motherboard — Pooja's framing of Earth and cosmos as the original curving, relational, non-linear intelligence that AI's linear grid cannot replicate SAND series context Part 1 of The Great AI Unraveling — with Tristan Harris The Eternal Song — SAND film series Contact SAND [email protected] Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member