The Health Insurance Dilemma

In this episode, Mary and Leah dive into the realities of the U.S. healthcare system and why it is deeply personal—especially for women, families, and those in agriculture. From navigating insurance as self-employed ranchers to the loss of rural healthcare access, they share lived experiences, hard truths, and honest frustration with a system that often feels broken. This conversation covers affordability, pre-existing conditions, delayed care, and the emotional toll healthcare decisions place on women who manage family wellbeing. Rooted in rural values, the episode also highlights resilience, community care, personal responsibility, and small ways families can take control of their health while advocating for better solutions. This is not a political debate—it’s a real conversation about real people, and why healthcare must work better for everyone.   00:00 Mary and I'm Leah and welcome to Grit and Grace in the Heartland.  Good morning Leah, how are you? Good morning Mary, I'm great. Good. um So the second episode is going to be about  the health care situation in the US right now  and I don't know how to introduce it very well so that's my introduction to the to the episode for today. um 00:25 One thing I want to say before we really dig in is that healthcare is definitely a women's issue. We are the ones who birth babies. We are the ones who might not want to birth babies.  And we're the ones who keep the, I don't have a word, the population growing because  we're the ones who produce the next generations.  for women, this is a very hot topic  and 00:55 I didn't really think about the fact that this situation with the  Affordable Care Act  was such a big deal because my husband has a job and we get our health insurance through his employer.  And when Leah and I were talking back on an episode a while ago on the other podcast, Leah mentioned that because they are self-employed, they don't have 01:23 anything offered to them for health insurance outside of uh the Affordable Care Act and we all know what's going on with that right now.  So Leah's going to be really generous and talk about her experience with this. 01:37 Thanks, Mary. Oh, goodness, it's such a complicated conversation. And over Christmas,  our family was reminiscing like people often do when they're gathered. And we were talking actually about  some of the traumatic events that have happened on the ranch over the last 40-some years, including when I was a child and I required uh emergency medical care with a broken leg.  my parents saying, you know, back then, 02:03 you just went to the emergency room  or to the clinic and you had business taken care of if it included being admitted or just treated and released and then you got a bill in the mail. And while it was considered expensive, of course, it didn't ever feel unmanageable or impossible.  We can all agree that certain families probably have more dynamics of like trying to 02:30 diagnose yourself and  use your own cures and treat things.  But people didn't  just avoid going to pursue healthcare treatment because they were afraid of it as they are now.  That it means the decimation of anything you've ever had and saved and worked for  and people avoiding care or delaying treatment. And 40 years really isn't that long. We've evolved and changed so much. And when we moved home back to the ranch and left our 03:00 great jobs with great health insurance. Even then in 2012, we weren't afraid of becoming self-employed and joining legions of other friends who were self-employed, not just in agriculture, but really anywhere where you were purchasing your own health insurance.  How quickly things have already changed in the last 13 years. So we're self-employed. We are  on our own for purchasing our 03:26 healthcare coverage, whatever type of coverage we need. We don't have a pool of employees at the ranch. So uh yeah, indeed on our own.  And it became a job each year  doing the research, investigating  what kind of things were available to us.  I'm thankful for sometimes crisis is what brings about the most entrepreneurial new ideas where we have 03:55 now providers who are cash pay  like the old days or  health share kind of  companies that are there.  There are a couple of private health insurance companies out there, but  they're not easy to work with, especially have pre-existing conditions. And then there is the marketplace where millions and millions of people go to  shop for a plan that's available that they can afford  if they meet those income requirements. 04:24 And the end of 2025 leaves me discouraged because I feel like,  you know, which crisis of the day do you want to talk about for this country? But the wellbeing of our healthcare industry has to be a priority in my mind. A healthy America is a strong America.  And there are lots of facets and components to that. em But ultimately we're at a... uh 04:51 at a stalemate, in my opinion, we've made no positive movement or progress.  And this issue  doesn't  align with any particular party at all. This is an American issue  and  we have to do so much better. I will not pretend to have the answers for you.  at all.  That's not my forte.  I just believe that Americans need and deserve access. 05:21 to healthcare.  And what we see in rural Nebraska is the opposite. We have providers leaving practice. They're frustrated by working with insurance companies. So much red tape, so expensive. Hospitals that can't justify their operations. For instance, ours no longer delivers babies.  The nearest place to deliver baby now is 70 miles away.  And so this is not a workable solution at all. 05:50 The thing about being self-employed is you're so busy running your business, whether it's livestock, farming, or any other self-employed business, you're focused on the work of the day and oftentimes left with very little time to invest yourself in bigger issues that not just affect you, but millions and millions of people.  And  I do feel like this one is going to be on the backs of the self-employed people of America just rise up and say, 06:19 we need better solutions. Now, I know people who are also on their employer's healthcare, and it's also getting unreasonably expensive where, let's all just use the example of my local school district who functions by way of tax dollars paid by property taxes.  The insurance for the teachers is now becoming ridiculously expensive. And so how is the school district supposed to keep providing that as well? So the system is broken all the way. 06:48 I don't know anybody who is  like happy innately with what they have. And that's a sad statement about what  the business of insurance is. I don't blame providers. I think this rests within the political realm and the insurance companies and all Americans are suffering and this is no good.  We have to see this. And change is hard. I don't want to understate that. 07:17 It may be very painful  to completely  start over, and start over. I really don't have another solution. I don't know how you can fix what is already smashed into a million shards of glass. There's nothing that's working well,  that I know of. Nothing is working really well.  No, no, it's not.  And back in the old days, because I really like saying that phrase, back in the old days. 07:45 people used to pay their town doctor with eggs  or  a side of ham  or a deer they killed and  butchered. It was an exchange between the person who needed care and the doctor.  And now  it's an exchange between the person who needs care  and the insurance company and the place that the doctor works at and then the doctor. Yeah. 08:13 they're not playing fair with those providers. I know that because of family and healthcare where  the reimbursement rates are less than  what the procedure cost or the test cost. So then they're losing money as a provider and we can't have that. Why would anyone go to medical school to be told  you're going to have a half a million dollar in student loans and you're not even going to be able to afford to set up your practice and make a profit to 08:40 start paying down your student loans.  It's so senseless. Yes, and I actually have a relevant story about all of this that I love to tell.  When my youngest child was born,  I went into labor, well, real labor. I was in labor off and on for a week last baby.  And uh I left my home at 630 in the evening, got to the hospital at 10 minutes to 7 in the evening. 09:08 He was born at 712. So 22 minutes from the minute I stepped in the door of the hospital until he was on the bed. They didn't even have time to break down the bed. Not only that, but they didn't have time for the doctor to get there to deliver my kid. nurse Robin, will never forget her name, was my angel. She helped me deliver my youngest. And she said it was the most violent controlled birth she'd ever seen. 09:38 I did not scream,  I did not holler, I didn't even use a swear word, which is very unusual for me.  And uh she said that was the fastest, easiest birth I've ever seen.  And I said, how many have you seen? And she said at least 150. She was probably in her late  20s. She said, and it's one of the few that I did myself. So she was fantastic. Love her. 10:04 Literally took my kid who had green meconium in his hair and washed his hair  half an hour after he was born  That was gross. I'm so glad she got to do it and I didn't have to  but the doctor walked in  and my baby was all wrapped up in the bassinet next to me and He walked in gowned up and said let's have a baby and I said you are too late He's already here. This is  and I was smiling. I swear to you. I was smiling. My voice was a lot lighter  and uh He said oh 10:34 And I said, yeah, I warned you that pain was not going to be an indicator for me to come in.  He said, well, you were right. I said, hmm, yes, I was.  And so  I looked him in the face and I said, so does nurse Robin get paid the going rate for delivering a baby?  And there was a very long pause. And he said, unfortunately, no, because she's a nurse. 11:02 And I said, funny, she performed the job of an obstetrician for me. And I was getting more and more irritated because I was so thankful to her. uh she said, Mary, she said, unfortunately, she said, not only do I not get the fee, she said, he still does. 11:23 ah That was 24 years ago, as you said. Yeah. And I looked at him and I said, are  you going to get paid for a service you did not perform? And he said, yes. 11:38 And I said, I can't even  form a sentence right now to tell you how much this makes me angry. And he said, as long as you don't come flying out of the bed at me, we're all good. And I said, I don't think we're all good, but I'm not flying anywhere. I just gave birth to a baby when you were not here.  And he said, you're angry. I said, I am incensed. 12:01 I said, this is not okay, this is wrong. I said,  and there is something really wrong with our medical situation in this country.  I said, I am not mad at you, doctor, I am just angry about the situation. And he said, I understand. And I said, okay. And I don't think he really did understand, but that's all right.  So yeah, that happens. 12:27 people get charged for services that they are not actually provided in this country for healthcare. And that is absolutely unforgivable. Well, when we were not sure what we were going to do as things got murkier and murkier after government reopened in November,  I did, for the  sake of giggles  or whatever you want to call it, decided to get quotes  on the private coverage available in  Nebraska. There only a couple of options. 12:57 And it was so discouraging because  my melanoma skin cancer is now considered a pre-existing condition because it was two years ago. it matters not that I was um being assertive in seeking care. It matters not that I moved right into having it treated.  By the way, I paid cash for that because at that time our marketplace 13:24 company didn't work already with that set of  Catholic hospitals in Nebraska, is where the only place I could get in without a long, long wait and I wanted to move on it and have it taken care of. So I paid cash already  and I did negotiate a cash rate. Again, what a joke  is that that I can negotiate a cash rate cheaper than going through insurance, but I did that considered fully cured,  considered uh that I  am  very assertive with 13:53 twice a year, skin checks still.  And then they call me pre-existing. Yeah, here's an offer. Here's a plan for you, Leah, but you can't afford it.  my response to the lovely agent who's only  the messenger is  I better off to be uninsured  or to divorce my husband or  to not have a job so I can be  Medicaid eligible. What is this? 14:22 You're absolutely  making a hardworking American family who's always paid their share feel like we don't want you. You don't matter.  like no one cares. eh That's the part that just makes me nuts is that  it feels like unless you are a  millionaire at least, you don't matter. 14:53 And that's not true. Everybody matters. That's right.  And I recognize there has to be cost limitations. I recognize the value of, for instance, being  able to help with preventative and wellness. And it's so much less expensive than treating the heart attack or the cancer. It's just everything is so backwards, upside down, no one's listening. And we're making no progress. And so as a result, we have people who are not 15:22 seeking care, seeking treatment. They say they're not eligible, they can't find a provider, they're too far away. uh We're just talking about people dialing back from anything considered elective.  like for instance, I need carpal tunnel surgery. I'm having trouble already with being able to grip and uh unscrew a jar lid for instance.  Well, when you're a self-employed person, there isn't someone standing behind me to do the work. 15:52 that I cannot do,  or even when I need the time to recover because I saved my money and I got the thing taken care of,  we're already operating on a shoestring allowance of time and resources when you're self-employed. If you're going to couple that with making things way more expensive, you're hurting the business as a whole. And we can't have that.  We cannot. Mm-hmm. Yep.  It's not good all the way around. 16:20 and I don't know how to fix it either.  I keep saying apply pressure, write your letters, contact  your decision makers and leaders. They need to be hearing from everyone, even if you're in an okay situation, got to be advocating for others. But this, as I often say, this country does not belong to the decision makers in Washington, DC. This is our country. They work for us. 16:46 And if you don't like what is happening, you need to speak up, stand up, and do something about it.  Of course,  I don't  envy anyone thinking about jumping in  to take their places instead, but this is unacceptable. And we know it's just one thing in the list of problems we have going on in this country, but we have got to do better for our people. At the very least, we all can email our representatives and our senators or call them. 17:13 or however you want to contact them and put in your two cents because you're entitled to do that. Mm-hmm. A full cash price now for insurance  is in the thousands of dollars per month  for anybody. Thousands of dollars per month. I think about what we paid for our first home when we got married. I mean,  it's just ridiculous. 17:40 I don't know people who have enough cash to pay  those premiums.  don't know anybody who does. um Thousands and thousands of dollars per month for not even great coverage. So  what's that going to do for our economy? It certainly isn't going to help and it solves nothing.  Yep. Certainly it does not. And the other question I have is... 18:07 I know that every time we go in to do our taxes in February,  the tax person says, did you have health insurance for the year that we're doing taxes for? And we always say yes, because we always have. And with the Affordable Care Act, as far as I know, if you don't  avail yourself health insurance, you get taxed. It's my understanding that they removed that penalty. they? Okay. That's my understanding. I have not done the work. 18:35 to verify that  or greatly reduce that penalty.  And I know a great number of people who are going to take the hit, whatever it is, because they simply can't justify um purchasing anything.  And then they're going to,  you like a  membership type clinic or will just not go to the doctor. Yeah, unless you're dying. And by then it might be too late. um If they hadn't removed that tax, I was going to go from incensed  to livid. 19:05 Because Libid's a good word for that kind of crap that is going on.  Yeah, you can have lot of conversations about capitalism and profitability and what does it mean to be an American? What does it mean to be a business? And I don't love overreach and legislation and limits and regulations. I love the idea of human beings being good human beings because that's what you're supposed to be. 19:34 And I don't begrudge people trying to make a profit. But  my opinion is that healthcare insurance is not a business. It was never meant to be a business. It doesn't belong in the world of healthcare provision. And it is not a place to make people's dreams literally die.  I'm disgusted by it.  Yeah.  And if you think about how much money the health insurance company 20:04 top tier people make a year, it is disgusting. It's not fair. It's ludicrous is what it is. don't... A healthy America is a strong America. again, it's multifaceted. need people to make better choices to live to be healthier. We have an obese country. We have an unwell country. We have so many challenges. 20:34 And I just don't, I mean, we have this whole thing, I think, happening where big, sick people is big money and big business. And there's a lot of people that love that. And that's not the American way to me. That has nothing to do with the principles of capitalism and profitability, not profiting off the back of sick people and denying care and access, all of that. That's not a good look at all. no, it's not. 21:04 So, in all of that gloom and doom that we just spread, I'm so sorry. There are some glimmers of hope here. You're shiny, but there are glimmers of hope. It sounds like our government is starting to realize they need to government again. So hopefully after the first of the year when everybody comes back to work, they will get on this and maybe get something passed so that... 21:32 the premiums aren't quite as high as  you're all looking at right now. Well, of the people, by the people, and for the people, if you're an elected representative of the country, you still are that. You better have the same healthcare challenges that the rest of us do. Maybe that will be an incentive. Maybe that would be an incentive to do better if you were equally feeling the pain of Americans. And I don't, you you read all kinds of rumors about what they have or don't have. 22:01 But a representative who truly cares about their people will be immersed in hearing what is going on out on the ground amongst your constituents.  You're not going to hear anything positive, and I hope that inspires real meaningful change real quick.  Yeah, super freaking fast would be great. um The other thing that I would suggest is if you're looking for health insurance right now and you have to do it as a  self-employed person. 22:29 There are people called insurance brokers and  we had one for a while. We loved him and he quit. He is no longer our insurance broker.  He wanted to do something else. He'd been doing it for over 20 years and he has a young family and he was just like, I gotta go pursue other things.  Love him. He's great. He helped us find really, really good homeowners insurance. 22:54 vehicle insurance, if we needed health insurance, he would have been the guy to go to. you can check into brokers because basically they have their hands in  all the information  through a bunch of different insurance providers and they can find you the best deal.  You still may not be able to afford it, but they're going to go out of their way to try to find you a really good price for insurance. I joked with ours that she's 23:22 She's also wearing the  title of counselor right now because it's been brutal,  but absolutely helped us find affordable dental insurance, helped us get some good vision coverage for all of the bad eyes  in our home, talked about accident insurance, which is really important for people in  agriculture in particular. I highly encourage you to have an accident insurance policy  and then look at what is available healthcare-wise.  And we feel better when we know there are choices. They may not be great choices, but... 23:52 to be informed and aware of choices is really, really important, more important than ever. Yeah, I don't know if you're like me. If I can't understand something,  it  makes me crazy. If I can find out information about the thing that I don't know about, it makes it  less infuriating for me. Less scary, yes.  Mm-hmm.  So, and those are only two things I can say. I don't know. 24:20 I don't know what's going to happen with our government. if you can find a good, genuine, honest insurance broker, that's probably the first place to start. Well, I will take from the strength of my roots a couple of things. And they don't help me just with health care, but in all areas of life. I'm very grateful to come from frugal people who believed in saving for a rainy day. 24:48 And I hate that sometimes because it means your mind goes to the dark places. And many times we go to the dark places because we've been in the dark places. so  doing  best to be as financially responsible as possible to put some money away in the rainy day pot  for the hard things that will come, inevitably they just will, is really important. And also, again, to lean in hard to family and community. 25:17 because those are who will be there for you when those dark days come. And there are brilliant people in every direction. And I know people who have avoided some medical catastrophe because some very, very wise women in particular um were  aware of treatment options, ideas,  looking at functional medicine doctors and  chiropractors. There are lots of options out there. You just have to be equipped to ask. 25:46 questions that can be hard and then do your own research and hope for the best.  Yep, and I will tell you right now every woman on a farm  or a ranch or a homestead  when their people  leave the property and they say  be careful,  that's their version of I love you.  100 % and I would trust most veterinarians any day to deliver a baby if I needed to have another one,  a fraction of the cost. 26:14 I was gonna say, it might be cheaper. 26:18 Their malpractice insurance probably wouldn't cover it, but  you know, the stories from the past  are shocking at times and  didn't always go according to plan, but coupled with them are amazing, amazing stories of resiliency and overcoming hard things.  And that came through people helping one another. And the old ways still work pretty darn well  in many, many, many cases. 26:46 Look for the resources around you and you might be surprised with what you come up with. Yes, and the easiest resource solution, whatever you want to call it,  it  starts at home. Take care of yourself at home. Make sure you're hydrated. Make sure you get sleep. Make sure you eat a green vegetable more than once a month. 100%.  I always say that food is medicine. Good food is medicine and I will. 27:13 carry that with me. I'm going to work on a batch of elderberry elixir because we're believers in helping uh use uh elderberry to  resist cold and  influenza  symptoms. I just, I'm a believer. I've had enough experience that I've seen it help that I am a believer and other people have tried it as well. So there is good stuff that was created all the way around us that could be helpful. yeah, because nature is smart. 27:43 Absolutely. Nature wants everything to survive and thrive. And  she's also mean. You know,  if a baby animal is born and has a broken, messed up hip that can't be fixed on its own, it's going to die.  Yep.  That is  one the hardest parts for those who don't experience or understand that.  nature has a way of 28:14 Correcting humans in particular who try to think that they are the smartest thing that there is They will help she will humble you real quick. Sometimes it's in the name of a bomb cyclone Yeah for the for the The title of apex predator that we've all given ourselves. We're pretty dumb sometimes 100 % absolutely Sorry giggling quietly, um, so 28:41 So the reason we're even talking about this on a podcast about women in agriculture is probably because we really care. Women really, really care about our spouses, our partners, our children, our parents. And healthcare is one of the most important things out there that we worry about.  is.  It's in our nature, the way we were made. 29:06 to be caring nurturers and aware and women are the decision makers in the homes when it comes to  vaccination schedules and school physicals and annual checkups and setting the family's appointments to be seen and things like that. So it is something I believe that begins in the home with women. And again, healthy America is a strong America, a healthy family is a strong family, healthy communities. 29:32 are important  and we want the best for our people. So I believe it will be women  who will inspire the change that needs to happen on behalf of us all.  Because we are,  for the first time I understand in quite a while, seeing age expectancy go down  and  that's not what anybody wants or should want.  Families are having less children and that can be for a number of reasons, of course.  But I think that this begins and ends with women. 30:02 and being empowered to demand real meaningful change to benefit everybody. Yes. And  every time I hear the words women and demand in the same sentence,  it gives me this little stitch in my chest because I always was taught that demand is a mean, nasty word.  But men can use the word demand and they're just considered to be strong.  Yeah. Loaded. It's a loaded word. 30:32 it seems and it shouldn't be. 30:36 Yep, we're going to talk about a whole lot of that on this podcast. know,  I know it's coming.  The other word I have a hard time with is deserve.  I have a hard time with the word deserve when people say, I deserve a new car or I deserve a new house.  like, um I wish you wouldn't use deserve. I wish that you would say, I have worked really hard and I have earned. 31:03 the right to make a choice about a new car or a new house. I have a hard time with the word deserve.  do as well.  According to  the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, what we deserve is pretty narrow in scope  in this country. And it's important for people to remember that.  Yeah. Then there is what is the right thing to do just because we're all human beings. So that's 31:32 It's long and complicated conversation, it seems, that shouldn't be. It's hard to even believe we're having this conversation. I'm not sure what our grandmothers would say  to hear that people are avoiding having a child because they, quote, can't even afford the medical bills associated with it. Of  all of the challenges and struggles that come with being an American, being able to afford 32:00 healthcare so that you can be a productive citizen and worker  shouldn't be part of the conversation. That's my opinion.  No, and I'm going to jump the track a little bit here.  The conversation that has been going on around the SNAP benefits shouldn't even be a conversation in a country where food  is being wasted every day. Yes, we are a country of waste.  I could go on and on about that because I'm a kid. 32:31 who remembers the 80s farm crisis when  there was pretty scant pickings to be had at the table. And so it's so disgusting to me.  We have so much lack of education, lack of awareness and system breakdowns that lead to all of these things. It's so unnecessary. In fact, if we were to do away with food waste, we wouldn't even need SNAP benefits  because we're wasting more food in volume and dollars than what we're doling out in SNAP benefits. Isn't that something? Isn't that wild? 33:01 Oh, and that just leads me into the next thing. The whole fact that people who have had access to SNAP benefits now have to reapply. Yeah, and talk about a bureaucracy. Like, what do they say? I've never met a problem the government couldn't make worse. It's just, again, you're going to devote labor and resources and time to an issue that is a small issue. 33:31 in comparison to massively more expensive problematic issues going on. I heard that people were going to have to reapply, I was like, how does that save us any money? It's mind boggling to me. So much of it is. Why don't we focus on fixing one problem at a time? You've got your resources spread all out in every direction. 34:01 in every front. Solving one problem at a time and not creating unnecessary problems beyond that. 100%. I think that's why we see that Americans feel fatigued, distracted, exhausted, worn, and somewhat without hope. And so that's why I say turn off your TV or take in 10 minutes of headlines a day and promise yourself that'll be it, like the news of our childhood. 34:29 Humans aren't meant to take in information constantly. The barrage of it feels mostly negative these days and it is  not good for any of us. Back to our health, it is not good. So don't do that to yourself, it won't help.  No, just, hits every em stress trigger in your body  and  there is some kind of 34:57 disorder where if you're stressed all the time, your hormones get all screwed up. I can't think of the name of it right now. 35:07 Your systems are a disaster. You're a lymphatic. You're adrenal. All of it. It's all a mess. It's something exhaustion. Maybe it's adrenal exhaustion, something like that. And it really, really impacts women. you can't survive it. I mean, you will live, but you will not be thriving feeling that. Or it will kill you. It literally will. Yes. I am concerned about the well-being of people with 35:37 dementia, heart concerns,  and then of course addiction becomes a thing when people turn to something  to try to alleviate symptoms of something else. So it's a chain, a rapid chain effect. And so I do know people who are wise enough to recognize for themselves, for instance, I'm getting rid of my TV or I'm shutting down my social media or  I'm making myself walk  every day or I'm going to go volunteer because I know that's good for my heart. 36:07 just different things like that because they are recognizing we've got to do some self-help here because help may not be coming for us.  And I'm pleased, I've recognized that about myself. For me, it's rest  and  limiting  news intake.  And it's not because I'm choosing ignorance, it's just I can't, I'm a feeler of what's going on around me. So I do have to put some boundaries into place  or I'll be a shell of myself. 36:32 a menopausal woman has already got enough issues. She's got to manage those heart palpitations as best as she can um because it's a real thing.  Oh, it is. It is.  I have so many feelings and words, but I'm not going to get into it right now. So you're showing yourself grace  on all of this and so am I. trying to. um My thing  is I really  like sitting down with my husband in the evening and 37:02 watching a one, one YouTube video of a half an hour about people who are farming because we're growing things and we learn stuff all the time from people who are farmers. And farmers are full of great optimism and faith and that's what we need right now. The eternal optimist and we wouldn't be here if they weren't. 37:29 ran away from it all a long time ago.  so that's why I do feel particularly protective of our people in agriculture um to the point where I get defensive sometimes and then I don't speak as clearly and plainly as I would like to because I'm busy being defensive. But  to be an eternal optimist is something I hold really precious and dear.  And it's hard to help others understand that, except I will say, take off your shoes and socks. 37:59 go stand in the soil, on the soil, in the grass, put your hands into it, breathe deeply,  you'll start to understand it's a connection with something so much bigger than yourself. And that includes when Mother Nature is showing her ugly side, it's still a connection um to something greater than yourself, and that leads to that optimism. And I hold onto it um and guard it very closely for all of us. 38:29 Yes, I do too. And please don't ask me to take off my shoes and socks and go stand in the snow that fell yesterday.  I'm not doing it.  Yeah, winter can be pretty hard on me when I'm driven indoors. The older I get, the wind gets to me.  But then I start feeling that loss of connection and then I'll go and there's just something aliving about turning your face into a sharp and bitter wind  and  seeing the animals that depend on you. 38:59 for care when it's hard especially, helps ground you and helps remind you of that purpose. And I wish that everyone could have an experience like that to help them feel why they matter and the role they can play and why tomorrow matters. so there's an idea, maybe put members of Congress to work somewhere out in a field and help them solve their  disagreements while they're working and sweating and feeling. 39:28 and caring for these living things, it might help. Being reminded they're actually humans being. Yeah, that would be nice. uh one thing that we find ourselves doing is that by February, we're real tired of the ice and the snow. And my husband again is an avid gardener. And  by the end of January, he's like, I'm going to go get some bags of dirt and bring them in and get the seed trays and we're going to start planting. 39:58 I help with that because that's at the kitchen table in a warm house. And I stick my hands in that bag of dirt and I just squish my hands in the dirt. And I'm like, oh yeah,  this is my version of grounding right now.  it's what I needed when I do the same thing.  Yep. And when the seedlings start to sprout, when they're about,  I don't know, half an inch tall and the whole tray is filled like basil or celery or whatever we're doing. 40:25 I run my hands over the leaves and I lean down and I smell the plants and I'm like, yep, okay,  another couple months, it'll be warm out.  So you can ground yourself even inside as long as you have seedlings or dirt. Yes, 100%. And it's one of the best things ever. I mean, it sounds so simple and so silly, but it really does work.  Yeah,  I think about my country school teachers that had to start plants. 40:54 in the end of winter like that. And I think they knew what they were doing and maybe didn't know what they were doing, but it helped beat the winter blues. We'd line the plants up in the south windows. um Seemed like back then it was long, cold winter, every winter.  And we didn't have discipline problems at school, Mary, where I went to school, where we were hands and feet involved in service and care for things every day. 41:24 there's something there for our young people as a whole and our older people as a whole. em I can tell you when I worked  helping with caregiving in the retirement home when we'd bring in baby goats in their little diapers, what it did for the mental health of the residents there. absolutely. The young woman I was talking to yesterday for the other podcast,  she used to do um 41:54 Basically, she'd take her goats to daycares and senior living homes and  birthday parties and things.  And  she fully swears on the fact that goats will brighten anyone's day.  I believe it. I believe it.  And  more of that back to our health and well-being in this country. Some of it is,  it's on us, each of us to recognize what we can do  when you feel it. 42:24 When you feel like you're out of options, out of choices, there's just always something there. that optimism is that spark that says,  I guess I'm limited to what's within my control, but there's always something.  I just have to figure out what it is. And then it's looking to your left and right and saying, how can I help someone else? Yeah,  absolutely. um When  the bird flu went through real bad, what, a year and a half ago? 42:54 We upped our  flock, not herd, flock,  so that we could sell eggs to people in our community. And it was really funny because at first I wasn't sure that the eggs would sell.  And then people found out we were selling them $5 a dozen and we couldn't keep eggs in the farm stand because people were coming to get our eggs or the store's eggs because the store's eggs were more expensive. 43:20 Every time somebody would buy a dozen eggs from us, I would just get this little ping in my chest of, I'm so glad we have the chickens. And it's a tiny little thing that we were doing, but it helped.  And we're still doing it, but people are buying eggs at the store now more often too, because the prices have come down a little bit.  If everybody would do something, we could cover all of the needs in this country. That's what I always say. 43:50 Yeah, and we've gotten so far away from it. um Yes, too far away. And  you hate that it takes really hard times to rediscover that, but that's often what we have shown.  That's often what is required.  When things get really, really bad, really, really hard, that's when we rise from those things. And  I had hoped the COVID effect would last longer. uh 44:17 positive COVID effect.  I was hoping it would last longer than it did,  but it  did not, which shouldn't be that surprising for us Americans, but it's time for a revival. I am seeing glimmers of it in places because necessity is mother of invention and that helps encourage others to be  creative like that as well, but we sure need a lot more of it and we need to hear about it instead of hearing about so much of the yuck. 44:42 I heard the word pandemic in a news report the other day with this new flu that's coming through.  And I was like, hmm. So what's going to change in a year from now, like it did with COVID?  So we'll see what the next  pivot is. Yeah, it will be interesting. I'm  to go into the new year with  optimism and 45:14 try very hard to hold on to my peace. I think my word for 2026 is going to be resilient. It's the only one I can come up with right now. That's where I'm at too. I would say prayer, you can pray, but you got to work the prayer too. Yes, we are asked to do both. 45:43 Yeah, prayer rings hollow for me when I don't see action and I know action happens and I just don't see it sometimes, but  it's meant to be coupled together, pray and then move your feet  with that. um I'm very thankful again for my mother in particular, who's been a  woman of faithful prayer and always has her hands and feet going  to help lighten the burdens for others. 46:11 I'm glad that your mom is young enough, and I'm assuming she's over 60,  but  she's young enough and healthy enough to keep using her hands and feet to help. Yes, it brings her joy. So much joy. Awesome.  All right, let's end this on a positive note.  How was your Christmas? Was it great? Our Christmas was wonderful. It was quiet and it was warm and we spent time outside in t-shirts,  which was 46:40 probably not the normal I uh should love.  Of course, we're paying for it yesterday and today it's a shock to the system, but it was,  I cherished it because it was small and quiet with our girls  who are growing up on us and recognizing this is our last Christmas holiday season with our eldest in a predictable way of being at home.  Next year, she will be gone  as a young adult and will be in charge of her own schedule. So this was... 47:09 special and try not to be emotional about it. I just tried to soak it in and enjoy it moment by moment.  she's back for Christmas next year.  I think she will be here. She is a home  girl. uh We just have traditions in the month of December  for the Advent season, so she won't be here for those.  she can take those with her and make them her own traditions if she wants to,  where she goes. And  I hold on to that. 47:41 Just  so you know, there's a friend of mine, her mom gives her a gift bag for every day of Christmas,  December 1st through December 25th.  And they're just little tiny things that her mom finds for her during the year.  So there's a small gift bag for every single day.  That's 25 days. And you might want to... 48:04 consider adding that in as a new tradition for Maggie. And that way she has something from home while she's in South Dakota? South Dakota, that's a great idea. The other thing we tried to do, we tried to do every year, but this year was giving some extra love to those who are celebrating for the first time without someone, like our neighbor in particular, and giving him some extra love and care. And he was embracing his new normal. 48:34 holidays are loaded for people, know, load, can be loaded with lots of lots of complicated feelings  that include the joy of the season, but also the hard. I think it's again, as I age, recognizing there isn't any one right way to do something. It's different for everybody. Being respectful of that is important to me and recognizing that  everything can be complicated, even at Christmas, it can be so. 49:03 giving people grace and space and letting them have it be the way it is. Yep,  understand completely. really do. is hard for me. My parents are far away. And every Christmas I'm like, it's gonna be Christmas. It's gonna be fun. And then it never is the same kind of fun I expect.  Yeah. 49:26 So I kind of just go with the flow and see what happens. It's just easier than putting huge expectations on anything around the holidays. Yes, adjusting expectations. That's important conversation that families need to have and have with their children and all because we set ourselves up for all kinds of things in this life. And then when it doesn't happen that way, it can be crushing and paralyzing and that doesn't serve anyone very well either. No. 49:53 No, it does not because that's not how we're meant to live. Yes.  All right. I think we're good on this one. um As always, you guys can find us at Cretton Grace in the Heartland,  colon Women in Agriculture on Facebook for now. Thank you. And for those of you who are still searching for health care options, I encourage you to do as Mary recommended and you can go to Clear Creek Ranch Mom. I've shared some resources and conversations. 50:22 alongside of hundreds of comments from readers across the country and those were very helpful to us and  encourage you to take a look as well.  encourage you too because Leah is freaking brilliant and her followers are great. Thank you, Mary.  All right. Have a great day, Leah. Thank you. You do the same. Bye.