The Hearing and Dr Ken Zucker on CBT

In This EpisodeJamie Reed and Cori Cohn open the episode with analysis of the May 21 Senate HELP Committee hearing, Protecting Our Children: Exposing the Dangers of Irreversible Gender Transition Procedures on Minors, then turn to a new think tank brief counseling trans advocates to accept defeat on youth medical transition. Jamie closes the episode with her recorded conversation with Dr. Kenneth Zucker — one of the most consequential and contested figures in the history of gender medicine.PART ONE: The Senate HELP Committee Hearing Jamie Reed and Cori CohnOn May 21, the Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee convened a full committee hearing on pediatric gender transition procedures. Jamie and Cori break down who testified, what was said, and what the hearing reveals about where this debate is headed at the federal level.Witnesses:* Dr. Kurt Miceli, MD, MBA — Chief Medical Officer, Do No Harm* Chloe Cole— Detransitioner and Ambassador, Do No Harm * Shannon Minter — Legal Director, National Center for LGBTQ Rights. Minter appeared on Andrew Sullivan’s Dishcast in August 2025 for a debate-style conversation on pediatric gender medicine — worth a listen for background on where he stands and how he argues. Shannon Minter On Trans Life And Politics — The Dishcast with Andrew SullivanAs a backdrop to their analysis, Jamie and Cori turn to a newly released brief from the Searchlight Institute — The Path Forward for Transgender Rights, authored by Mara Keisling, founder of the National Center for Transgender Equality. Drawing on extensive polling, the brief advises Democratic policymakers to abandon the fight on sports and pediatric medicine and focus on non-discrimination protections for adults. When the movement’s own research infrastructure is counseling retreat, it reframes what was at stake in that hearing room.Links:* Full hearing: Senate HELP Committee, May 21, 2026* The Path Forward for Transgender Rights — Searchlight InstitutePART TWO: Jamie Reed Interviews Dr. Kenneth ZuckerDr. Kenneth Zucker is a psychologist and sexologist who served for decades as head of the Gender Identity Service at Toronto’s Centre for Addiction and Mental Health — until his clinic was shut down following an advocacy campaign in 2015. He is among the most published researchers in the world on gender dysphoria in children and adolescents, and his work on desistance — the finding that a significant majority of gender-dysphoric youth, if not socially transitioned, grow up to be gay or lesbian — has been central to debates about pediatric medical transition. If you don’t know his name, start with Jesse Singal’s longer reporting on his work and the circumstances of his clinic’s closure.In this conversation, Jamie sits down with Zucker to discuss his new paper, co-authored with Michael Bailey: “Cognitive-Behavioral Treatment of Gender Dysphoria in Youth: Opportunities, Challenges, and Responsibilities”— a direct clinical argument that psychological treatment of gender dysphoria in youth is not only permissible but arguably obligatory, and a challenge to a field that has largely foreclosed that conversation.Links:* Zucker & Bailey paper — Current Opinion in Psychology* LGB CC review of the paper: “A Clarion Call to Therapists”About Informed DissentInformed Dissent is the podcast of the LGB Courage Coalition. Hosted by Jamie Reed, Lauren Leggieri, and Cori Cohn.Website: lgbcouragecoalition.org Substack: lgbcouragecoalition.substack.com This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit informeddissentpodcast.substack.com/subscribe