Did Don Draper really buy The World of Coke? Did Tony Soprano really die or just order more onion rings? The finales of our favorite shows can make us argue, make us cry, and make us crazy. From Spotify and the Ringer, I'm Andy Greenwald and this is Stick the Landing, a new podcast where we'll be telling the story of modern TV backwards, one fade out at a time.
Find Stick the Landing on Wednesdays on the Prestige TV feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Sean Fennasy and this is the Big Picture, a conversation show about Oppenheimer. We are very blessed to be joined by three of the people responsible for the incredible work in the movie Oppenheimer, Poit to Moncoit to Monographer, Jennifer Lane, the editor, Robert Bigaronson, the composer. I'm going to start with a question for all three of you.
Christopher Nolan famously tight-lipped about his projects. Wait, I understand it a long time before sharing with his collaborators what it is he's going to do. I'll start with you a few minutes. When you get the script and he tells you I'm making a film about Oppenheimer, what is that conversation like and what is your first thought?
Your first thought is when he tells you I'm going to make a film about Oppenheimer, you kind of know that you are going to make a film about Oppenheimer in the amounts I have. He's very meticulous with the script at the moment that he sort of sends his scripts out into the world. He's very finished. He has thought about it for a long time.
His scripts feel watertight and from the four films I've done with him so far, when I go back and read his scripts again, the same scripts that I get when I start a project, they very much represent almost in a perfect way the film that comes out of it later. So you learn to sort of pay a lot of attention to the first time you read the script because it's a very good insight of the film that's going to live in the world later. Jennifer, what about for you? You worked on Tenant.
This is a very different movie from Tenant in some ways. What was your thought when you did? Is he sending you the screenplay and saying I want you to edit this film for me? No.
No. What happened was we went out to lunch and just just to catch up and he kind of said he had something brewing and he just said it's very different from what I did just before. It's a bunch of people in room talking. I was like, I mean, that's kind of what I prefer.
And that's like that was the personal movie. Like I wanted to work on that kind of personal movie after having done like kind of the action version of it. And then I don't know when he told me it was about Oppenheimer if it was just when I went to his house and I read the script but he definitely didn't tell me that lunch. It wasn't until like I had already said yes to the project and then I read the script at his house.
So he's definitely not sending me anything through the internet or anything like that. In retrospect, do you think he put you through Tenant to see if you could do this? Wow. I don't know.
I never thought about that. I'm crazy. No, probably not. Who did she say?
What about you? When do you become aware of a new Nolan project? It's when I sit down and read the script. I don't think I knew anything about it before I went to the office and I sat down and I started reading the script.
I was very excited because I didn't know what it was going to be about. And I just remember being completely just captivized by this incredible script. It's an absolute page turner and you get sucked into this character. And I started thinking about the music too and realized pretty quickly that the music needs to heighten his emotion and needs to put the audience in his shoes, in his eyes, in his mind.
And that was something very exciting. I never read something like that before. Is it common for you to be hearing the music the first time you're reading a script? No.
I don't hear music. But Chris is really what he did with the sound of the song for this film and how also he writes that on the script, like the footsteps, the ten, fifteen seconds of, you know, exactly how long it is. But the seconds of silence after the twin of tests, it's all written out in the script. So it's a very visceral, cathartic experience reading this because you kind of hear that in the background as well.
But can you talk about why it is important for you and Nolan to shoot on film and then also just the incredible act of shooting this in iMacs and also making Kodak make you black and white film for the 65 millimeter format, which had never been done before. This is a pretty unusual kind of execution even for you guys. Yeah. I mean, it is an ongoing conversation, of course.
But the short version of that answer is that we both believe that it's the best format out there. We try to be as visceral as we can in our language. We really like to give the audience some sort of a sense of being present in the reality that the film presents to us. And we cannot think about a better format to do that than iMacs.
And that's for a variety of reasons and not at least resolution, but the depth and color depth and all that kind of things that I think we as human beings in a very intuitive way connect to. I mean, you could almost argue, we always try to commit the scenes we do all the best and or the best possible way that we know and that we feel. And it's only logic that we don't end up in iMacs and when it's not possible to shoot on iMacs, we sort of back to System65 and also the way we then post-produce it, the way we carry that on and post-production. The fact that we always make analog copies and are so fanatic about people go and see it in an analog movie theater because if you shoot on a digital, on an analog format like this, every time you would make a digital copy out of it, you would lose a huge amount of your original resolution.
So we became fanatics about making analog prints, because if you're making an analog print on an iMacs frame, you effectively maintain like 18K resolution, which is impossible to do in digital technology. So we think it's the best, simple as that I think. Jenna, I feel like this makes your job a lot harder though. Not really.
It really doesn't. Digital is a pain in the ass. Can you describe that then? What is the difference in the two working in digital and film?
Well, it's funny when I first, when I interviewed for Tenet, all I talked to Chris about was the DI, because I was in a DI on a movie and I was just going out of my mind because you spent a whole day, you're windowing stuff, you're changing the color, blah blah blah, you come in the next day and it's like, you watch it back and they're like, let's start all over. It's just like, you know what I mean? And I'm just like, where is the center core of what we're doing? You can spend so many weeks and so I spent my entire interview essentially asking Chris about what his film coloring process was because I, it just sounded so interesting and nice to me and creative and artistic and committed.
Yeah, please, you can speak to that. No, I just wanted to, a short thing about the color timing process, difference of DI and the analog process is if you go to DI, you effectively, you don't work real time. So you work shot by shot by shot by shot where you work in the analog coloring process every time you do, you color the film, you're forced to watch it real time. So you get to color the film real time the way that an audience watches it, which is I think is a very crucial and essential difference, you know.
And if I can jump in, I thought it was very interesting that the few times I went to visit set after they, after you shoot, after your call time was over, you, I saw, I met you guys in the screening room, you're watching daily's on film, right? Which is, that was the first time I experienced it. I was like, oh, this is, I'm watching film right now. And what's so cool about watching daily's on film is we're all in this little trailer together and I hear, oh, it's done, Chris talking about stuff and I'm clocking that or I hear the production, the production's on the mentions, I mean, it's just, it's just like you're all listening and watching it.
Whereas on a digital movie, you're on pics and everyone's watching on their laptop while they're on their phones or on a call. Like, it's just not as engaged. So the digital world opens up this kind of whole world for issues. Please.
I was just, just, just thinking like how great is it that we're watching daily's on film with the composer, the, the editor, you know, the production designer, the focus pooler every night, obviously. You know, artists, you know, they're all sitting there. Oh shit. You know, like, you got really, really, you know, your nose rubbed into, you know, the, the difficulty in the process, but it's super cool actually.
It makes you also just feel like a team, right? There's not that disconnect. But, and then there's a whole other creative side that I love about it too, which is, you know, we have so much freedom, but there's a schedule and I have a whole, there is, there is a group of people that are cutting while I'm cutting because the director's cutting show on film, so they have to cut as I cut. And so there is just a nice kind of rhythm to the whole thing.
And I would say that working with him is kind of the slowest fat. Like, I've never worked with someone where time kind of moves fast and it's like the same time. I feel like we have all the time in the world, but we actually have this insane schedule. He never deviates from, but it kind of weirdly feels relaxed and I don't know how to explain that.
But yeah, movies I've done on that are digital, which is most movies, you know, it can go on forever and it's just tweaking and it's this endless process. And eventually that it's like you reach a peak of creativity and then it starts to become not creative anymore. And I think in the digital world it's kind of hard to define that because you can go on forever, you know. Interesting.
It seems like being on the same page is a big part of the success of this. I'm glad all three of you are here to talk about this. The movie is a, it's really immersive. It's also a movie of big moments.
It's like the first big moment of the movie is the, can you hear the music sequence, which is, this is the fifth time I've seen this movie in a movie theater. It is still like breathtaking. It is amazing in part because of what you do, like, I'm curious, like for all three of you, that sequence, you know, and working with your wife as well, Serena who's a violinist and just hearing that music. I'm curious if you can just talk through conceptualizing that.
And even where that piece of music started was one of the first things you composed, was one of the last and how does that work? Well, when I read the script and I came to that moment and reading that Oppenheimer's putting on a record of writer, he's listening to the write of spring. And I was like thinking like, I was kind of bummed out with faces. You're really going to put the best, one of the best piece of music ever written as a reference point in the movie is like that.
And I thought, I was like, oh, you're going to use that piece of music or like, but he was kind of just slapping him. But the bar pretty high. But that whole sequence that came about was just also me being involved in like watching the dailies. I was also watching the dailies of the visual effects.
So when we had a screen test of IMAX and I was looking at the visual effects of Andrew Jackson and Chris were, it felt like you guys were just playing around like, you're doing experimentations with different lenses and fish tanks and like seeing the fires and seeing the swirling molecules around. Seeing that IMAX was extremely inspiring. And when I saw that, I felt it. I knew that's how one of the music to sound like as well, kind of pushing the boundary of energy.
And then what was also very interesting about this movie and about the music for me was obviously the most important part of the music was to capture the emotional core of Oppenheimer and his emotional journey. And also I found it very inspiring to think about how we can mix that up with math and science. And so that whole piece of music kind of came from a math, a music, a scale called hexatonic scale which is a six tone, it's a six note scale. And it kind of started out as an exercise and it started experimenting with tempo and rhythms and it started to come on this life and energy that I hadn't worked with before.
And it was also, I had to use computers to write that type of music but the tempo was changing all the time. But then how it really started coming alive was when we started recording it with a live orchestra and with the help from my wife, Serena, as a violinist, we figured out a way to be able to record that music in one flawless performance. I was always said that we were going to have to record it in sections like four bars at a time and then cut it together with a computer. But we found out we figured out a way how to give musicians a click in their ears while they were playing.
They were playing at one tempo with their left hand and then before the tempo happened on the page they were playing their ears in a different tempo. So they adjusted on the live in their heads. You make it seem like we can understand what that's like. I can assure you we can't.
It's quantum physics in a musical way. I wonder if you can talk about that a little bit too. All of those effects that Little Bigger is looking at are in camera and practically gone with Andrew and I think that's uncommon and hard for us to maybe understand. So how are you creating and filming those moments where we see electrons colliding and atoms swirling like that?
I really owe a lot of credits here too. A lot of credits we're achieving that are assigned to me which is kind of wrong. I think Andrew Jackson and Scott Fischer they have constantly simultaneously when we were shooting they have been working on these science projects as we call them. So they were very often just on a set next to our set working with tanks and with fire and ping-pong balls and stuff.
It was literally an arts and crafts project constantly with glue and tape and electro motors and everything. Initially we started altogether before we shot. We did like two days of heavy experimentation. We asked the innovation to build some specific lenses for the IMX camera that didn't exist that we really felt we needed to achieve very specific things.
So it was an ongoing process where we all the time sort of discovering from our daily's that we've been watching together. We've seen the results and we think oh this is really working out and this is great so let's explore that a little further. So it was sort of a unit that had a lot of freedom to play around when we were really trying to make our normal days with the actors. I think the base of it was that this is a film about quantum physics and quantum physics is such an abstract science and especially for a normal semi-intelligent person as myself.
It's just these are very abstract concepts. It was also very important that we at least attempted or tried to connect to the audience in an intuitive way. So that on an intuitive level you kind of get an understanding of these very new concepts of quantum mechanics. And I think coming back a little bit to music I think that was also something in music.
You're kind of making the score to quantum mechanics which is a very complex concept. But in the end you do your own version of it and you kind of reach also within your own field of complexity that is interesting and it gives you feeling that you at least have some sort of understanding of the concept. Even more so than a typical narrative film this movie has a lot of this montage and this kind of conceptualization of what's happening maybe in Oppenheimer's mind or the science that you're talking about, how to gend. When you have a sequence like this in the script that it needs to be organized at the moment you're almost flashing in this way is that something that in talking with Christopher that you are landing on that helps understand how a sequence that comes together.
Yeah I do remember after I read the script because a lot of it is in the script just that he's having these images and stuff. I asked Chris how are you going to achieve that? What are you doing? And Scott and all that stuff and he said yeah you know we have all these ideas and we've been testing it and we shoot it but I think a big way we're going to do it is editing.
I was like oh fuck. I literally read because Tenet with the backwards stuff I was like oh this is going to be so hard for me. But with this script I was like oh there's the black and white and I'm like that's all hoyta. I really was like I'm just going to cut the people in rooms talking.
And then so when he said that I was like damn it. So yeah I think a lot of it we had all these amazing images but it was kind of like how do you cut them together that they don't feel like what they are or that people feel like they feel like what Oppenheimer's thinking about which they can quickly become a bit silly if you hold on one for too long or you don't want people to know what it is or be thinking about what is that. So yeah we spent a lot of time watching. We would spend half days just watching hours of this stuff and shopping it together and experimenting with just a lot of experimenting of what and it was just kind of whatever gave us that feeling because we had no idea.
Did you have the music when you were doing that? No no no not that early. Not that early. No that was probably the first week or two because I was on during the shoot and it was kind of nice actually because I didn't have any baggage with the stuff they shot because you guys watched it a lot and I know Chris had opinions about sort of stuff maybe he didn't think worked but I didn't know anything so I would watch and make selects and we go through and there was a lot of it like hours and hours right when you say I don't remember exactly kind of for each section there's just all these different cool experimental stuff but no the music the music comes actually pretty quickly considering but this was like the first week or two we really just like started going through that stuff.
I have a related question for you about that Jen I think this is the longest movie that you've ever edited and it feels like the movie with maybe the most tonnage like the most footage the most imagery the most editing is that fair to say? I guess I really don't know I mean I guess it's the longest movie I've edited. Is it is it I don't know what's the most edited? A longer period of time that it takes to finish an edit like this is it?
No this was quite quick I have to say I mean I came on and I think I came on in May I don't remember and we were kind of picture left we picture like by the holidays and like when we were mixing we were on the stage. We started mixing in I think November. Yeah I mean we were picture like kind of by the end of the year and we were doing tweaks a little bit on the stage and stuff like that but that's not long so um no it felt like it went quite quickly. No one has said that um you know the film has broken into three acts and the E-Chac has a kind of genre attached to it the first act is sort of a coming of age movie the second act is this heist western and the third act is a courtroom thriller is that something that he was sharing with you guys that he like pointed to that influence the way that you were working on scenes or moments of the film?
I mean we he would talk about it but you know I don't think you know the way that we felt this film should feel or should look we were not like on purpose trying to make this feel like different genres you know. I think the genres that Chris mentioned is very much reflected in you know the structure of the story where else you know visual language just wanted to feel pure and feel real you know. I always had to think you know or we always had to think that you don't want to sort of watch this with some sort of another you know sort of intellectual burden apart from you as an audience just engaging with what you see on the screen and so no we didn't try to make it feel or look like like a genre piece in any way. Is that something you thought about?
Little bit did you say this is the highest part of the film because in fact it does have that energy even in the music when you're watching the movie that you've shifted tones to a new kind of movie. Yeah we do a lot of the music gets written a lot of big things and ideas in the sound world and the music world gets executed and written before Chris starts shooting the film. And that's it's I love that process because I'm in with him in pre-production and we meet up once a week and I write music constantly and then we listen to it together and we talk about the details of melody or sounds or production and we kind of that's how we create this DNA the sound world of Oppenheimer. So he listens to that when he shoots the film and then when Jen and Chris does the first cut and you have like two or three hours of the period.
When I was saying with the experimentation the music exists he just doesn't let me hear it until a strategic time because I don't think he wants because it's easier to cut to music. Like if I had Ludwig music to push play and look at it's way easier but I think he doesn't. So he tells us it's like two weeks in when we just screen it then he's like here's all this music it's amazing but I just don't have access to it. Interesting.
So it's easy to read the movie as a metaphor for filmmaking and they've got all these brilliant people who all come together for a short period of time to make this thing. But it also makes it seem like the way you're talking about it like this is a perfectly executed machine and I feel like filmmaking there's experimentation things don't work on set or even in the aftermath of what you're working on like when you were shooting the movie was there anything that you would imagine you'd be able to achieve that you had to improvise or change or reimagine. It's very funny that we are we are the film sort of the invention of like one of the most deciding piece of machinery and the history of mankind that that would be a metaphor for filmmaking. That's kind of a thing for me to read that way.
Sorry I lost. The perfect machine it's not right. Filming isn't a perfect machine and and yeah this was definitely a film about a man trying to wrangle a lot of geniuses in the same space trying to work on one common common product and in that way of course filmmaking is very very similar because you have a lot of people and then you have to kind of all think along the same line and you all have to be in support of each other and you're all working on one sort of final goal and I feel it very much. I feel very much with you guys as well that's you know when we meet afterwards and we stand in the lobby of a screening and we all have this big movie out in the theater and we're kind of yeah without words sort of feeling that we've done something nice.
It's very special. That's very humble about the biggest movie of the year. Oh yeah but when I was working on it I never imagined I never foresaw this coming at all like not in a million years. Did you I mean yeah it doesn't feel like we're working on a perfect machine and we're going to put out a movie that made $900 and whatever $1 million.
By any means. What I do like with Chris's films actually is that you know because people always ask you know how similar is the script the final film is on but he always manages to pleasantly surprise somehow you know you you you always make some sort of you have your own imagination and you read a script and you know I have my own visual imagination but always when I see the stuff coming off the press finished I'm always pleasantly surprised with you know his you know his vision and the stuff that he actually has been seeing all along that we hadn't necessarily seen earlier in the process you know. He's very open in the process and we're all part of it and we're all giving our bests but there's also always a little bit left inside inside of him that's the surprise and that you know yeah there's always give you a feeling that he has a little extra stretch of genius and vision that that I for sure know possess. Sure I do.
I'm hoping you can talk about the Trinity test sequence a bit which feels kind of instantly legendary I think if you were a fan of this film and the way that it was conceived and shot and also maybe help people understand what it's like to shoot with an iMac's camera which is different from the regular camera. Well that comes a little bit back to the other question because people they ask a lot about the Trinity test and about the size and the scale and how do you sort of envision it and when you read it on paper what you know how to do it and in a way I think that's one of these sequences that it has become extremely you know the scope of that image is so much depending on editing and it's you know very much Jannen and the absence of music. Oh but leading up to that music and then also Ruth the production designer she and Scott I think and Chris has talked about this they ended up making a lot of extra stuff that you guys ended up shooting that wasn't in the script which allowed for the sequence I think to kind of have but yeah that that's sequence I just all hands on tech. All hands on deck but also that scene is a typical example of exactly of the sum of a lot of very small elements you know nobody can sort of you know even understand or envision you know something that has such a magnitude and such a scale so at some point you're sort of you know you're standing at the foot of a mountain and you have to reach the top somehow but the only thing you can really do is sort of take the first step and it's for all of us like that we kind of just start to labor through it with trusting that that sooner or later we kind of can grab onto something and can hold onto something that will take us further and and then it's just months and months of laboring into the small details of it and in the end that then amounts into something yeah that has kind of the right feel I think maybe and but it's never it's sort of not from my side it never comes from you know I read over page and there's this vision of how this should be done and how the size it should be it's more like how the fuck are we gonna do this well let's just start with something small you know and and so we start testing we start doing small tests we start committing things on film and already we know half of it is not going to work but then there's three things that really are interesting and then we start exploring that a little further and so step by step you know we we craft ourselves sort of through this and and and you know Chris is always somebody that you know it's very firm in sort of his trust that the things will end up and and and will be you know mostly by him guided into the right direction it's remarkable how much suspense that sequence has given that it's a historical event that everyone knows the result of yeah no even I've seen it's only since I just watched it again at the on live concert the mood week and Serena and all the musicians that did this work on it was fantastic and um I was like on the edge of my seat but I was mostly on the edge of my seat because the violinist played that for 10 minutes longer I was like how are they gonna fit like I couldn't believe it that was amazing um yeah and that that yeah that the fact that it does that is crazy I don't even understand but we had that music quite like when we went to cut that scene that is a scene that he was like I know the music this is the music let's lay it in and we had that very early on and that was just huge that piece of music I mean it's yeah no um I think you know the way that Chris uses music in his storytelling is I think pretty unique um and and how we you know when we made these when we make a lot of music based on the script and he can have he has these ideas like it was make a piece that's you know 10 minutes long this building and building and building those you know it has this extreme tension to it and to me my team and more of his career like he made this like I didn't know it was it was like a 10 minute piece of music with just constant build of violence and I had at that time I didn't really know it was going to be usable um and I don't think it was going to be playable either because it's literally 10 minutes of just you know 16th notes on a very very fast tempo um and but then when I saw how we used that piece of music in that scene and how you guys you know I think you cut you cut that piece of music into that scene and um and it's it's it's it's it's almost it's I mean it's magic I think it's it's it's you can you can have a constant build for that and you really be on the edge of your seat for that whole scene and then the culmination of it going into the biggest part and just going into silence yeah the other thing actually because I wasn't honest I was with these guys and I've actually never got to say the whole way to but like some of the shots in that sequence for me as an editor were just like a gift like the all the stuff that you did inside the bunker you know when the thing hits and it's shaking and you know when um I just feel like every one every time they see it I feel like I was there with them and there's something whatever hoyita does and how he gets in there with them but it's like a perfect distance of in there but not too in the thing you know what I mean and you just feel like you're another person in the room watching it all and being a part of it and um you know just when grows there's so many great shots of Oppenheimer looking so nervous and the camera just moves it's like it goes out of full it just like it just feels so visceral and it's beautiful and it was so fun to edit.
Yeah it's gonna make it sound like you didn't work on it. It was like seeing rocks. Well I've never got to say that to me. But like I mean even just when Oppie's like you know when they come back at the end and um Groves goes to make the call that shot gives me goosebumps and like it's just it just quickly catches him and he's like call Potsam and then it pans away it's just so beautiful and it's like it's like you're a person just looking over him I don't know how you did that so perfectly like it's just you know as an editor you know you don't normally get footage that's you don't have to worry about it being fucked up you know it's just perfect and you can just make something cool.
Do you all have a favorite sequence that you did work on? Is there a moment in production where you felt like we are getting this? This is this is exactly how I want this to be. No I don't I don't have a favorite sequence but I do see a lot of like in the in the materials I see a lot of moments that you know that were definitely magic in perspective like for instance the first back on my closer puff of Robert Downey you know it has taken us months to develop that black and white film to manufacture the black and white film and to re-engineer the cameras you know we have to build different gates for the cameras you know Panavision had re-engineered lenses the lab had to totally change their old workflow you know the only and the biggest analog lab in the world I think you know and we shoot a very simple close-up of a you know Robert Downey junior you know and hugely interesting phase and an incredible actor but getting those rushes back and seeing that then black and white projecting on the screen is that's an incredible experience you know.
What about for you Ludwig was there one sequence that you liked the best? To me it's been interesting kind of the aftermath of because when I'm while I'm working and when I'm in the movie and I'm just wise and I don't really sit and analyze what I'm doing I'm just in the moment and but things come to me afterwards when I'm seeing the movies and screenings and I'm thinking about why we made certain choices and especially something that I didn't think about lately that thought it was interesting was in the very very last scene of the movie and then you know when when it goes back to Einstein again and they have that conversation and it goes because of black eventually but how that music is also kind of it's a it's a culmination of the montage in the beginning right and that kind of the music moment it's we're using the same music elements from that the same theme from that scene from that montage but we we by now is in a very very more omnis and darker feeling and I'm also putting some elements from the culmination and the end of the between the test and that scene too and then seeing and and also what I'm thinking about and what I'm watching it now and also I can see that it's also to cut the same way as the montage right using like he's he's at it's and it's just it's so sad and dark now like it's not he's not having his inspiring visions now his visions his of bombs and you know rocket ships and and and just kind of like when I was realizing that I was like oh damn like I was I wasn't thinking about that when I was making the moment but how it will turn out afterwards is um it was a pretty cool vision you love feeling that impending doom of our culture yeah yeah we were working on a romantic comment before we went over to our future is our favorite segment that you liked working on or anything I mean but what do you think of that when you cut that last scene to kind of channel the montage too in that from I don't know if it's anything anything explicitly talked about I think it was kind of baked in a little bit essentially like in the script kind of yeah but here you talk about it's even more dark than disturbing but yeah um I think when I was just putting the assembly together I could say um because yeah like what this says I can't really I mean I love that we've seen in different relationships to each scene but when I was just putting my somebody other my favorite section was kind of the um and I had no idea it was gonna be my favorite section but the kc when kc shows up just I think I love that part of the script because the script kind of takes a left turn and I think it's so cool that Chris did that and you know because everyone's waiting for the bomb you know he's like no we're gonna go over here for a second and do this whole thing and and that scene I found when I was cutting is so funny because you're watching Oppenheimer gonna be an idiot you know and it's so satisfying and killing his performance is incredible and he's so good and I don't know the other actors but he's pretty incredible too and um so yeah I just had a lot of fun cutting that scene I was laughing out loud it's funny that you say that though because it reminds me a little bit of maybe something you did in hereditary because that it's for like 30 seconds it's a horror movie I mean you're not showing this man's face and it feels so ominous and like something terrible is going to happen and then I there in the first screening I went to people actually laughing this like it's also really funny I mean I think that seems so funny every time you got the gross and he's like you did what this is made me was killed calm you know and then Casey just sitting there like you know he's no idea um so I just had a lot of fun maybe too much fun because I think that sequence was very long Chris was like what are you doing um and uh and I also loved the all the stuff around the table with the flowers in the black and white when I was cutting away so much fun that stuff was so beautifully shot and again it's one of those scenes where those scenes are really hard to shoot around a round table I mean I don't know how to be beat but I just assume they're not easy and table scenes are just so when someone shoots them really really really well it makes my job just so fun because I don't have to worry like oh why did they shoot that shot why don't I guys actually have everything so it's just so fun to cut so I spent a lot of time probably too much time on the scene just because I enjoyed cutting them and I think the Truman scene I left cutting when I these is all just when I was in my assembly like I actually didn't spend too much time on the Trinity sequence I breeze right by it because I was like we're gonna do this it's gonna be great and I'm sure we did some crazy music for it but um I had to get to the end of the movie before Chris came back I only had three or four weeks um and I knew I had to watch all the footage so but he was he was like that actually makes sense to that because this will be great as we wrap up I'm curious now you know it's been six months since the movie came out and it becomes such a big success and it's being celebrated so much now just each one of you why do you think it has resonated so much what do you think it is that people are connecting to well I think it's it's um you know the the when I when a movie came out I was in a I was in a small town in Sweden I was on summer break and I was with my family in the case of Sweden and I booked the ticket at the local theater's tiny tiny little village and it was packed and the guy the guy that presents the movie he when he when he presents his movie at the local theater he always tells the audience about the premise and if you'd like dinner no no and and where the movie starts yeah and also you know like a very heavy like southern Swedish accent um and then he and then he knew I was there so he was like I was there but but I was so surprised that it was in in that city in the village like people were just so excited to see this movie and I think this is the right time the right moment and people who are hungry to see something like this um and you know the the format speaks for itself you know the all the all the IMX screenings were just sold out and people couldn't even get a seat and I think the top of the town like people like people saying that like I couldn't even get seated for next month um just um in the word of mouth and and the spectacle of seeing this on the screen and and how it sounds like the the the the detail that Chris spent spent all not just in the visuals but those are details he spends in the mixing and you know it's it's really like an event it's really it's it is like a concert um and I think people are just maybe after the pandemic people just hungry for that yeah general value what do you think it is that's resonating I don't know I mean I just know for myself when I read the script like these guys said I just ripped through it and I was so into it and I remember for me it was like you know getting to Trinity but then also all the stuff after I found thrilling and I love the everything between the straws up and I'm I think for me I just I found so fascinating and you know that he was mad because he says I'm not and then he does this thing and then he does it but maybe he double crossed him and like I just remember um at the end just being like oh my god no he wanted him to do it and like just being so with it and I think I also loved all the history stuff and so I think this movie works on so many levels you know it's like so fascinating historically so fascinating the science of it um visually stunning and then on top of it it has just like a grudge like a grudge match which is like who doesn't like that you know and and um and has yeah it's just the characters are so fascinating it's me and I think people love that and I um I think audiences around the world are smart and this is a fun movie it just it made me so excited that people liked it as much as I liked it but I didn't have any I was shocked and really pleasantly surprised were you shocked what do you think it is that's making it so big well you know the ground material is huge you know the story is big and and and and it's very important and meaningful which automatically puts you in a position in which you know you're constantly very afraid that you will not do justice to the story with your own work now and I can only speak for myself I have given this film I everything you know I don't think I've better in need than this so so so so the fact that it resonated was was you know I was very happy about it because it wouldn't have resonated I would have you know I would have gone back home and cry up in a ball I think you know so so um but and I speak now for myself but if you allow me to speak for everybody I think that you know when I talk to the people in the crew they all had very much this similar sort of vibe or emotion around it you know and you could also see it during the day everybody was really giving their everything and and you know and talking about make a costume you know when I looked at Jen you know at Luda's work you know at some point you know Karma should pay you there somewhere somewhere somewhat you know so in that way you know I'm surprised because it's a room about faces or if the film about faces but I'm not surprised because there's just so much humanity and energy that went into it so at some point you know that stuff has to start resonating what else will we end up sort of this show by asking filmmakers what is the last great thing they have seen you guys weren't seated for this so you can't say Oppenheimer um Ludwig you see anything you like recently? films? could be anything I was I just saw this movie all the strangers that I thought was amazing maybe feel a lot of feelings and it's very impactful it's a wonderful movie.
Gentlemen about you. The last movie I watched recently that I really resonated with me was an anime before I loved that but I loved movies like that about what's true what has it been true so I thought that was stunning. People talking in rooms as well? Yeah what was it?
I thought about you. I was really hoping you guys would take a little longer on those answers. Great great films this year around I think you know. I really enjoyed Lindsey's work on Saltman.
Very nice. Didn't binge watching Fargo. I hadn't seen it before. I really enjoyed it.
What season are you up to? Four right now so I still got one more to go. Okay let's give it up for Hoitzman Hoitzman. Jennifer Lamb, Ludwig Bornse.