The Man Behind Glass

Diane at 6.25 pm. Welcome to another episode of Twin Peaks Peaks. I'm Ashley Brandt. I'm Matthew Olson.

And we're going to be talking about the man behind glass, which is the third episode of season two, as well as Mulholland Drive, and maybe a little bit about our trip to North Bend this weekend, which we tweeted about. We tweeted about it if you follow us on Twitter. If you're one of the 10 people. Yeah, you gotta start tweeting other Twin Peaks people.

You're the people behind the curtain here. You're the primary caretaker of that account. I just logged into it for the first time the other day. And I feel like the way you get followers on Twitter is by bugging the hell out of other people.

That's how I did it. Yeah. Okay. Well, you could just, you, the people listening could just follow us on Twitter and make my job that much easier.

Yeah. Or yeah, just do that. It's at Twin Peaks Peaks. It's spelled like the podcast is spelled.

The podcast that you evidently have found. So, I forgot that we were going to be talking about Mulholland Drive. I should have prepared some notes on that. You found that way too funny.

I just like, I just had a flash of like where this is going to go. No, I can still say some things about it. You sent over a picture relevant to that that I'm definitely going to have us go over when we reach that leg of the podcast. Let's start as we always start with Revival News, which is somewhat complicated by our little excursion we took to the Tweet then.

So the day before we went, uh, Merk Ross had gone on Twitter and asked that, um, people not tweet spoilers from the set of the show and by Tweet, I really mean, you know, broadcast on social media. What they see if they happen to visit the shooting a North end. So I think we're kind of in a Murphy area as to like whether we want to cover what had been established before then because I think we both agree we don't want to reveal anything that we saw while we were there. Yeah.

Um, that information is out there if you can find it. Um, it has quite a down quite a bit since, since, uh, news went out that Frost and Lynch were disappointed. Um, which is like, I mean, that's pretty cool. It's pretty cool on the fan base.

Uh, is responsive to that kind of thing. Um, hashtag keep the mystery alive. Yeah. Um, I mean, because like my interest in this, whether it comes from like a production standpoint, like I'm interested as to what the process is right now, but as a viewer, I very much, I don't want to know like anything going into the new season, frankly.

Um, yeah, there's, there's no way to communicate that to the creators, unfortunately. And I'm sure a lot of people, they're as much as they're interested in the production, they're interested in who they're going to see what's going to happen. Right. Um, but there was, um, some exciting news that I think we can cover, which is that Sherlin Fenn Instagram to photo that appeared to be from a plane and said that she would not be able to post on the Twin Peaks official cast site fan page that she runs on Facebook, uh, due to the shooting schedule, which is presumably referring to the Twin Peaks shooting schedule.

See, this is exactly the thing though is, it's one thing when, when, when part of the someone who's on the cast says like, Hey, I'm part of this, but also then I think part of the concern is that they haven't said who's going to be in the show and that they might be trying to keep some of that under wraps. That's true. So when we talk about like this person's going to be involved, like that says a lot just at face value about the story, presumably. Well, but you also don't know like what capacity anyone is coming back in, whether they're going to be flashbacks or whether they're going to be, um, going to have, you know, full parts.

Yeah. Um, what I guess I'm struggling to come to grips with is there's so much that could be said about any one cast member confirming that they're part of this production. But I, like that's, that's just in any production that's knowledge that's just known. Like this is, this has got to be the first time I think ever that you've had a TV show, this plot driven coming back after such a long gap where this is a problem where like, this has to be like the first time the time distance is so great that you run into the problem headlong of it's not just like, Oh, is this person like available?

Is this person busy? Um, like there's so much riding on this season in a way that it's like, you want to know that they're there because you want to have faith that this is going to be worth being interested and are excited about it all. Right. Um, I find it really weird that more of this stuff hasn't been leaking out via like the sort of professional, I mean, is there really a professional side to the people who leak things out about television shows or is that not, or is that something I just like have assumed, but it's always just like over eager, like fans and people who follow the production and have like telescopic lenses on their cameras?

Well, I mean, I think it depends on like how you're putting together your team, like, um, watch the throne didn't leak because Connie and Jay Z just like took it around on a single USB drive prior to releasing the album. So literally no one had access to it. And the people who had access to the USB drive could be trusted. So as not to leak it.

God, I hope I hope they had a backup at least. I think they did. And I think that's so crazy. I never heard that little bit.

Yeah. Well, and I think Kanye did a similar thing with my beautiful dark twisted fantasy, but he's just actually leaked, um, like a week or two before the album came out. Um, so again, I think it's a matter of like, this suddenly just became a Kanye podcast. I mean, my life is a Kanye podcast.

Pretty much. That is almost exclusively what we listen to on the drive up to Washington. Um, and back. Yeah.

Uh, so I guess as time goes on, we'll probably still, like if a cast member says it, I think it's okay for us to say it on the podcast, but we're not going to talk about, um, at all like, you know, something gets sent out from the set, uh, that hasn't like essentially been confirmed publicly by someone who's like part of the production. We're not talking about that here. Yeah. Keep it considered spoiler free in that sense.

If you want to be like really strictly spoiler free, like, you know, like the trailer drops for the season before it comes out, you're not going to watch it. Uh, then I don't know. Uh, sorry. I'm going to watch a trailer if it ever drops, like right away.

And then we watch it like 10 more times and be like, so. See, I don't know if I'm going to do that. I don't know if I'm going to watch the trailer. Well, you haven't finished watching the show.

Shut up. So you got some other things to worry about first. I just like, I, the point here's the thing. If the, if the, if the trailer drops before you've seen the finale and fire walk with me, you, I'm going to be very disappointed if you do go and watch it.

Okay. So the point I was going to make was that the movies that I've seen the most this year are the movies that, the movies that I've seen and enjoyed the most this year are the movies that I went into not knowing anything about them. Um, like Birdman and Mad Max. Um, I went into both of those not having seen a trailer, not having read a review.

And like, obviously this is also owing to like the type of movie that they are and like the high production quality regardless. But it was like a really good experience. I think for me as a viewer to not be like, okay, well, where's this like twist coming up that they talked about or like, you know, where's this really great performance that I've heard about? Um, I'm divided on this.

Like there's a part of me that still wants to be surprised and taken for a ride when I go to something. I'm almost actually, here's what it is. I think I am more opposed to getting people's feelings and perspectives on something. Like, I really hate the feeling of going and watching a movie that everybody has either been raving about or like shitting on and walking out of it, feeling like I'm somewhere in the middle or like I'm just like less than, um, because then I've been primed to like think that I'm going to have this like huge reaction to it.

I hate that way more than like hearing about the turn in the middle of the movie or basically like hearing a full pot summary, but then being able to go and then be like, okay, like I can appreciate this as a, like, I can appreciate how well done this is, how great the acting is like all that stuff that you're not going to get from a rundown of like the what happens or the who's in it. I feel like I feel like going to college made me that way because I couldn't have like done the like analysis that I was expected to do if, you know, if I couldn't like even like, you know, with the pace that a class goes, it's kind of essential to know like the broad force of where a book's going, if you ask me to be competent in terms of discussing your, or if you like have to start like thinking about the writing process before you finish the book, like you have to start thinking about what it is you want to write about, like you need those kind of like otherwise non-substantive things clear out of the way such that you can drill down and be like, and then I'm going to focus on this one piece on the specific styling of it and the actual like approach, like then you want that stuff like off your mind so you're not thinking like, can I even write this if I don't know how the book ends? Like how will I be able to make sure my arguments like short up? And so when I like hang out with people like you and I'm expected to like sound smart, I'm talking about media, it kind of like, it kind of helps to feel like that's a, that's like a solved thing to me because otherwise I get this like anxiety I guess.

It became less about like, spoilers and more about just like me worrying about talking. No, that's interesting. I mean, like if I'm watching a movie like that might be, I'm like I'm walking it for my own enjoyment and offer a class or for like something critical I'm working on. That might be like my second watch approach, but I do feel like when I, when I would read novels for a class, I would try to do both at the same time because I think then you're both like having the intended aesthetic experience of reading the book and like appreciating, you know, the pace that it's going, the direction that it's going in.

But I think that there is, there is something worthwhile to like doing that formal examination in pace with your reading as like the work unravels itself as opposed to being like we're at point A, we're going to point B, how are we getting to point B, how are we getting to point B, and just like looking at like what's happening in that moment formally? Yeah, I don't know if it's actually like a preference or something that I feel like was just kind of drilled into me by both my approach to, to that kind of analysis, my approach to education, but also the approach that was taken by the instructors and so forth. But like it puts me to this point where we're especially with you know, TV, I'm not super invested in like TV, I'm really like questioning whether or not I'm going to give the time of day, like my time is valuable and you can be sure that this weekend when the first episode of the new season of Doctor Who drops that unless I'm really fucking bored, I'm not going to spend an hour watching it until I've heard, you know, the bare bones at least of what happens isn't any good from like, you know, as many places I can gather in five minutes when I'm like trying to decide whether or not to give it my time. I don't like to go out on things on that much of a limb.

I also don't like to have it like hyped up. So I guess, you know, yeah, it sounds like you can't win. It sounds like I can't win. That max was a great example of one that wasn't disappointing because everybody had seen it before me, some of you multiple times, it was like, it's so great, it's so great, I was so worried that I was going to come in and be like, it was all right.

But that worked out. Tell them does it work out and tell them can you tell from one person giving you the recommendation whether or not, tell them can I tell whether or not it's going to be worth the time. Like it took you essentially talking about nothing else along with a couple other people talking about nothing else to get me started on Rick and Morty. So anyway, it's been 15 minutes about not twin pigs.

I just want to point out that I've made some pretty good recommendations. Yeah, I'm slowly coming around to your taste, but you didn't finish watching Twin Peaks and like that's like, no, uh, can we start, if anyone is like watching this and like drinking at the same time, start a drinking game where you drink every time that brings up the fact that I haven't finished the series. Yeah. You'll have maybe three sips of drink throughout an episode.

We'll work on his drinking game so it can be a real drinking game. But I think it's a baseline rule for like, every time Ashley drops her phone, finish your drink, you'll get at least one drinking per episode. I guarantee you that. All right.

All right. Moving on. Moving on. Okay.

Putting you on blast. Moving on to the episode. How about? So we met up on our respective Walk Home and you were saying that you didn't know how you felt about this episode.

Yeah. That's that kind of sums it up. Podcasts over on my half. You can take over the.

No. I mean, let's start somewhere since this is how you decided to transition us into the episode. Let's start somewhere. I did like so I'm not just like crabby.

Well, I was going to say that my overall impression was just that this episode has some of the strangest dialogue that we've seen thus far. I can think of at least one line that I bet we're both thinking. Okay. Also, a lot of Donna, a lot of James.

A lot of James. Never a good sign. Yeah. Yeah.

So I like that. Let's not get too far into that. Let's talk about something I liked and I'll ask if you liked it. I mean, Drone Smith is played by Lenny Von Dolin.

He's exclusively having seen satana, which is maybe not, maybe may be a bit of the best place to start, but we'll bear it out. I think Harold has played by Lenny. Is very interesting. I think Lenny Von Dolin does a cool job with it in this first episode he appears.

He pops up in weird places. I don't know if this is the first place I saw him in. It definitely wasn't. He's in a very.

You met Harold from in it and I was like, he's in a gorephobe. No, no, no. We were places throughout the first 10 episodes of the series. It was really strange.

No, Lenny Von Gole, and he's actually an episode of the British television show, Rent Wharf, I think, Back to Reality, which is a great episode of that show. And he plays this government-employed assassin. And so yeah, I definitely saw him in that, and recognized him from that when I first watched Twin Peaks. But yeah, just the idea of, I don't think he's like, a gourifovia is quite played up like a quirk, like how there are other quirky characters in Twin Peaks.

Because they even try to like complicate it by having him be like a very young, like reasonably like, good looking guy who's like, he's gilled, he's got like a hobby and everything. He's not like some kind of like corny picture of Nagorvo who like can't take care of himself really. Which also then, like Lora says, I was her mystery. So he's like, he's interesting, and it makes the donna that much more bearable.

Do you want to know what my notes says, my first note? What does it say? Harold equals Dustin Hoffman. Oh!

I mean, obviously I know it's not Dustin Hoffman, but that's like, it's like an amalgam of like Dustin Hoffman characters. Do you like that? I like Dustin Hoffman. I think that that seals why I like Harold.

Yeah, yeah. I think it doesn't dare me to Harold quite a bit. But I was like admittedly distracted during that first scene trying to decide if this was a no really worth making. Oh, okay.

I mean, my other notes are Donna is the worst house guest. Yeah. Definitely agree with you on that point. And Donna is in her own show.

No taking while I'm watching the episode, my notes are approximately the same quality they've always been, which is to say, not great. I find it really takes me out of the episode whenever I'm like writing it and I don't like to then like have it like track 15 seconds back. But here it was said, and with this episode with a weird dialogue, I had to do that a bunch. I was like, I don't want to take these notes.

I don't want to be prepared for podcasts. So what if I just read it? But yeah, do we have anything else to say? Like there's a whole Donna's motive for talking to Harold.

And also Harold's motive for talking to Donna. Yeah. Like I don't know how it doesn't dawn on Donna quicker that like, you know, some pretty personal things that would have been weird for Laura to just, I don't know, bring up. Like it's not as though like, well actually, I take it back.

It would be very like Donna to meet someone who knew Laura and then to assume that he knew all these things about her Donna because Laura would do nothing but talk about Donna when Donna's not there. Like, I'm sure Donna would like to think that she's the most interesting part of Laura's life. That's pretty real. But the diary, the diary that she sees that she sees spies?

Spies? Spies at the end? Yeah. Wasn't that, or was that on, does she visit again?

That was when she visited later. That's when she visited later. I'm saying, I'm throwing all of the chronologically. Well, I was going to bring up the fact that like she sees some kind of piece of paper in a shelf and just like goes over and starts like tugging it out of the shelf.

Oh, you got like a house guest? Like, oh, yeah, I'm still on that. I'm still on that. But would you, would you like, oh, this is totally fun.

I'm not going to ask you what you're doing or ask you to leave my house or tell you you can never come back. Well, maybe that's the nature of being in a war if oh, maybe that's the nature of being lonely. Maybe he doesn't, maybe he doesn't, you got really into that. You're like, I, so I would say get that your position is, you would take that person out.

That's so creepy. That's so weird. I don't know. I like- Oh, it's definitely creepy and bad it's on it.

But I could see like, you know, he's, how many guests does he have over? Does he have a point of reference for someone just getting up and walking around the room that being really weird? Like, what is privacy in a context where you're always pretty much private? Like, you let a person into your house.

Like, do you then think it's weird if they start poking around or do you just assume that that's what people do? I don't know. I don't know how long you've been in a gourfoam for really. I'm using like kind of like, I'm not like trying to go a dead runner corner out of this, but like Matt ponders the life of an agoraphobe, like not at all.

Like, I, I mean, I mean, you do kind of make it sound like he's never had human contact before. But also, it's just his house is also very small. So someone just getting up like she might have been playing it off as just like looking at the books. Like, she's not that smooth.

Donna is not that good of a detective. True. Donna's a terrible detective and yet we see her do the most detective work of anyone in this episode, I think. But like also just coming from a personal place like as someone who feels like very uncomfortable when people are in my space.

That's really horrifying. The idea that like when I leave a room, people are touching my personal things. Okay. That's interesting.

I know about you. But let's be real. Let's get deeper into ourselves. Both of us would find the kick Donna out of our apartments far before she had the chance.

You're gonna let her in the door. It's Laura and Boyle. Yeah, I wouldn't. I wouldn't.

I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I wouldn't.

I wouldn't be like, oh yeah, just stay in this room and entertain yourself. I'd be like, you're gonna get supervised the entire time you're here. You're gonna take the thing you need and you're gonna leave. And then you're gonna.

First thing I'm hyping up if I open the door and saw Donna's day there, I'd be like, you look like you're trying too hard. Donna tries real hard this episode. There's so many places we could go with Donna from here. Should we go to the graveyard?

To yelling at Laura's grave. I guess we're just gonna continue. I try to be so positive about Harold and then we just got right on the Donna hate train. But this is like the worst scene.

Like, as much as I want to be like, just you and I is abysmal and then we have to live, we have to kind of sit through the memory of it two more times this episode. Almost just as bad. The acting is not very good in this monologue. It's real bad.

She's like yelling and it's coming out very forced. And not at all. Like I imagine anybody who's actually gone and talked to their dead friend, their grave has ever sounded. Well, and she also mentions that she has not been to Laura's grave since Laura was buried.

Since the funeral. That was many episodes ago. It is like a funny confession of how bad she's done Laura dirty. Like, not only have I been like seeing James, but also like during that time I didn't even bother dropping flowers off.

By the way, like I met this guy. Where you fucking him? You're just working. And then she says it's almost like they didn't bear you deep enough.

Like, do you want to be more dead than she is? What's your problem, Donna? What is your problem? I'm sorry, Donna.

Of course, of course everything is about Laura. Of course everything's about Laura. She had real stuff going on. Donna, do you know what your problem is?

Your problem is that James is a shitty boyfriend. And we could have told you that going into this. Donna, your problem is that you want to be the center of attention. And the last person who was the center of attention got killed.

And now you're just like breaking curfew all the time and like doing all this like teen detective shit. And like if you cared about like your friends and your parents and stuff, maybe you would just like mourn your dead friend and like lay low. She is not good in Twin Peaks right now. Also, have you seen Audrey in a couple of days?

Nobody else has. Nobody seems that worried, which is weird. Yeah. Oh, God.

Now can we contextualize some of my like, I feel like I was maybe jumping ahead and immediately like being, oh man, this Audrey's trapped at one of Jack's storyline really rusted me the wrong way. It doesn't do anything for me because this episode is a perfect illustration of doing exactly that. Yes. Not that I have it like.

I forgot that this is where the storyline went. Like to be totally honest and I think it's because it's kind of absurd. It's yeah. There's two different problems I have or that maybe we both have.

I don't know. I don't know what difference I assume to what they're doing to Audrey. Well, yeah. And we'll get there.

But I have to say, so that stuff's going on. The cliffhanger at the end of last episode was Audrey calling Cooper, right? Calling his phone. Yeah.

Then we start this episode, which we're to go back to start. We see Ronette like spasming in bed. Yeah. And she's been attacked and she pulled out her.

Ivey was was drugged or something. But we don't actually see that. And that's not set up as like the cliffhanger of last episode. We just pulled open on that.

So the killer has been there, but we are just kind of thrust into it, right? Like, I don't find this something. No, and I don't. Well now you're making the question what the last scene was in the last episode.

It wasn't that. No, no, no, it definitely like wasn't that. So I don't find it that strange is a cold open, especially because I think that it's pretty easy to forget about Ronette because she's been in the coma. Right.

I just find it like, I find it really weird that this very consequential thing of like, the killer has visited Ronette in the hospital. Didn't kill her, but left the clue. Like, oh, that's fair. That's fucked.

And that's a fucked way to open an episode when the audience hasn't seen that. We just get the reaction to it. Well, and that's that confusing for reasons that we can't talk about yet. What I would expect is what I would expect is we open on Audrey in danger, but we wait a long time.

We meet Harold before we pick back up on Audrey's storyline and Audrey is being. So time has passed. So time has passed. Cooper's been going about his like day at the Share station.

Like he's gonna like get to it later and we see how he gets to it later, which is just talking to Ben being like, what's up? Audrey's gone. So, so, Audrey doesn't, it doesn't seem like she's the top bank by his priority list. And yet the show that the course that the writers are taking is, is that Audrey isn't like some actually like, if absurd, real shit.

Yeah. Like, they can't decide if they just want to drug her and hold her for ransom or just kill her and like, try to do like a real fuck over on Ben. What do you think, what do you think about Emory and Blackie and their like Blackie's weird plan to like, due to Audrey what was done to her? Um, vis-a-vis heroin.

Yeah, it's really strange. I think one of, well, a, like you're wasting, like there are a couple of practical points and they're gonna be a little harsh, but a, you're wasting a lot of money. You're wasting a lot of drug that Blackie apparently is also like, maybe addicted to. I don't get the motivation there.

This seems ineffective for her needs. Okay. Criticism number one. You're using those drugs wrong.

Yes, that is my first practical point. That is actually very practical. Yeah. But also like, it, I, it just, it doesn't seem like like a motivation that makes sense to me because ultimately it's about like what Ben Horan did to her and how she was victimized by Ben Horan.

So why is she taking the initiative to victimize another young girl in that way? Another young girl who also like, I think it's not like Audrey came there to say, hey, I want to be part of one at Jax. Like, I'm cool with everything my dad's doing. Like, it seems, there's all sorts of ways in which this plan doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

And one of them is that like, this is a person who's close to Horan who potentially you could rather than like hold for ransom or just think about like often, you could like try and force them into a situation where they can get you closer to a position by which you can like, you can force them to cooperate rather than just like, we'll drug you or maybe we'll kill you or something. Like it's a very bad plan at its face. Yeah. Whereas it could be like, you get Audrey to like go back and then like, you know, you force her to like, put her dad in the position where like, I don't know, where you don't tell her what I'm saying like, I'm sitting here trying to think of a more evil plan.

And I think if you gave me like, you know, 30 minutes and some graph paper, I could do it. A more effective evil plan, much more efficient allocation of heroin. Yeah. And it seems like ultimately the purpose within the story is to like really make Audrey helpless by sedating her.

And that's not cool. Yeah. It's not cool. I don't, I don't like it for a number of reasons.

Uh, let's talk about Jean. Yeah. The third, Renaud brother. And can we talk about how they all have different accents that are not Quebec French?

Okay. Let's talk about it. They don't. That was my comment.

Candy is Dandy. Uh, oh wait, wait, I was actually, I was going to bring this up and then I just forgot. Have you read the secret diary of Laura Palmer? No, I was wondering if you were ever going to bring that up and maybe, maybe try and get a hold of a copy.

Well, I mean, you can find a copy on the internet. Shh, what? You didn't say anything. Um, maybe I just weep that part out.

You don't know. Red herring. Anyway, so this week on the use net boards, they're talking a lot about the secret diary of Laura Palmer because stuff that's happening in the show really starts to tie into that and the novel, which was written by Jennifer Lynch was released between season one season two. Anyway, point being it reveals some semi strange things about one eye jacks.

I haven't read this section yet, but people talk about it on the message boards. Um, and it, I don't want to say it necessarily. What do you mean you don't like you don't want to say it? I kind of like don't want to spoil it.

I don't know. With that being, but like it like in a way that in a way that is similar to how you describe some of Bobby's stuff on firewalk with me, it re-contextualizes some strange things about blacky. Okay. Interesting.

You can just tell me out of the podcast. I probably will. People who want to seek that out. Go seek that out.

Audrey, one of jacks, blacky, Emory. Emory bad is still like, oh, what's that line? We were talking about weird lines. We haven't quite gotten into that, but there's a really great line.

Oh boy. Where is it? I wrote it down. I wrote it down.

It's definitely not. I believe in you. Can you vamp while I look for this? What am I?

You know what vamping is? Apparently I don't. Vamping is when you just look at the other person who's struggling to couple with something to say and you say something in their place. Oh.

Okay. Lusi's boyfriend is... Okay. I'm just going to read my note.

Lusi's boyfriend is gay. Okay. Well. And I mean obviously that's not all I want to say, but that is the note that I took and it gets into an interesting place about like how we read queer people and queer people are coded.

All right. Let's drop the one at jacks talk for now. Maybe we'll circle back to it. But I will say a line.

So don't forget. It's blacky saying to Emory. Also you just say it's blacky saying that I'm not going to say it's blacky saying that I'm blestery. I am sorry.

Oh my God. You can drop your phone, but you did just bump your microphone with your coconut water, which is straight up unacceptable. You can do that. You can get away with that on the cayhole, that's like maybe more thematically in line.

But they'll come into the Twin Peaks podcast swinging your coconut water around. Sorry. I have to put you one blast though. That's really something it was backy saying.

What I wanted to find once. And really small here. It was blacky saying emory, say something weak and fawning, which is so good. on blast right in front of Jon Renau so cool.

All right you want to talk about Dick Tremaine? I don't want to talk about Dick Tremaine. We have to talk about Dick Tremaine. This is the part where this is where season two starts to...

Dick Tremaine is ushering in a new chapter in Twin Peaks. Yes the latter part of season two starts to seep in and it seeps in is the second Dick Tremaine walks into the sheriff's department because he's... I don't want to speculate on and I didn't in my notes. I don't want to speculate on his sexual orientation or the way in which he's played though it sounds like you have thoughts on that.

I won't get you that conversation. I just want to say I think he's a dumb character and he's not like made out to be legible or smart and I'm not commenting on that. I'm saying it's like a not a good idea for a character just like yeah as faced like to complicate Andy and Lucy's story by bringing in this guy? No!

Anyway what are your thoughts on Dick from this first episode? We see him in the sheriff's department. We see him in that double or I do want to say the best part that comes out of this storyline in this episode is when Lucy talks about the fact that they went to the family night at the pancake plantation which is a location that sorry minor spoiler we never see the bandit in pancake plantation. Maybe we're gonna go to Seattle and space new but instead there's this place in Twin Peaks or nearby.

You know they probably had to drive out to Spokane for this. You know what I spent a lot of time with Spokane in my life there could be a place they're called pancake plantation. It's like soup plantation only instead it would be called sweet pancakes in the Northwest. That's a that's a soup plantation sweet tomato's deep cut for those out there familiar with that buffet brand.

Sorry. It's because I don't want to talk about Dick Tremaine. Alas here we are talking about Dick Tremaine. It's interesting because it seems like the show is trying to present him as this ladies man who like doesn't call Lucy back.

This very heterosexual man who's like fending off the affections of a lot of women. Although maybe that doesn't lead to him being red as heterosexual. But it seems like that's where the show like he's leading you and then it seems like it's suggesting that he's very European and very fancy. I don't think the show is trying to say he is those things.

I think it is setting him up as a cheap one of the attention of those things. Yeah. But then it's interesting because that seems to align with a lot of the ways that a queer man is coded in television and media at large. And yeah I mean obviously I have like there's a part of me that's like you can't know someone's sexual orientation by looking at them.

But then again like I feel like I can like read other women and like understand like culturally what they're like referencing and their behavior and their like choice of self-presentation. I as a cis straight white male will say no comment on whether or not you can read someone's or whether or not you can really feel like you can look at someone and read their sexual orientation. Now television I mean you're absolutely right there are tropes there are things that are played certain ways. I don't I don't get that from looking at Dick Tremaine.

Wait you don't? No I see I see something adjacent to that but I don't because because Dick Tremaine does not carry any of the like sophistication to which those tropes gesture. His his fashion sense is like abhorrent like maybe I'm maybe I'm off base here but I think he looks terrible. Like I have a very fashionable friend named Jake who do you know what I'm talking about?

No. Oh I do know. And one time Jake was wearing an outfit and I suggested that the outfit well we were well Jake and I did improv together and we were gonna do a twin-piece show and I think I looked at Jake and I said that based on his like reputation for being fashionable and his wardrobe and what he was wearing at the particular time he could be our Dick Tremaine and then I had to backped on say like to be clear I'm not complimenting you on the way you're dressed right now I'm saying that is a misstep and if you just fuck up your other outfits together into a horrible mishmash you could be Dick Tremaine for the show but you're not carrying it off right now but I think you would be very good as a very bad like this is a long way to saying I was rude and gave my friend a put down about his outfit. No.

Just that day he normally like out dresses me like by like by quite a bit by by miles. But you know you know what how he dresses so you know that if you just purposely went in there I fucked things up he could come out looking like Dick Tremaine. He has all the pieces of a Dick Tremaine outfit but he is smart enough not to wear them together. Exactly and that's the thing that's the thing is that someone who has all those someone who like has those interests who wants to dress in that particular way and whatever and like make it work that's what I feel like the trope is for like you know coding a queer character or a quill.

A quill. A queer man on television is like that's why that's why you had the show Queer Eye for the straight guys like this is like oh because they're gay they can they can make you look like not such shitty sack of shit straight dude but Dick Tremaine is in no position to be giving anybody fashion tips and so I don't think he codes as such to me. But like there's a there's like a campiness to like the way he presents himself and the way he dresses that I think I think it just points back to you. I think it just codes as idiot but the thing is that like he is now the third point in a triangle with him Lucy and Andy and Lucy and Andy are way more enjoyable like sort of they're way more enjoyable comic characters than Dick Tremaine is.

Dick Tremaine is an asshole and is bad at what he does and at having the persona that he wants to have whereas like Lucy and Andy are very honest and I don't find that the fact that he's like not that makes him a good foil to them. I think he's just like obnoxious. Yeah. Have you seen Mad Men?

We've talked about this. No I haven't. I haven't seen Mad Men. Is there a Dick Tremaine on Mad Men?

No there is a character named Sal that reminds me a lot of Dick Tremaine who has some of the same characteristics and you're like oh yeah he's married whatever and then you know they get into a storyline and he's someone who's in the closet and they do it's just using these it's using similar codification to signal to the audience that this is a queer person a queer man. I and it obviously a lot of it is through like gender performance and like gender presentation rather than like genuine like evidence of same sex attraction same gender attraction. Sure I'm not saying that you need to do that I'm just saying I think this is far enough off the mark of that for me given those like those strokes that I don't that I don't like that's not what that wasn't the note I was compelled to write down. I don't know.

We're gonna we're gonna have a lot of opportunity to talk about Dick Tremaine through the rest of the season. Stop stop stop stop stop okay let's get out of the way now that Dick Tremaine is played by Andy Cannon who I've never seen anything else but I know that he's one of the few actors from Twin Peaks who later goes on to be part of the short-lived On The Air which is the show that Frost and Lynch did after Twin Peaks the comic half-hour program that is so wild. We really have to take a look at that because I want to know what it's about and I want to know if it's exactly my seeking suspicion which is that it was distilled down the bad comic elements like Dick Tremaine that just like exists to annoy. You're just pointing at your phone at a character for madmen who I've not seen.

I know but doesn't he look like Dick Tremaine? Barely like for one thing I can look at like the bit of outfit that I can see and be like well it doesn't have checks on checks so I guess so. I just want to just want to point out the phallic first name. Yeah well also the this guy's an asshole first name which they do use like they do do their network television just happen called by his name really loudly and angrily.

You can do that his name is Dick it's okay. Yeah I just okay let's move past on the air I want to know if it's like bad bad or weird bad and too weird to live on television but we'll find out. For another time speaking of is it bad bad or is it weird bad? How about like almost anything else from this episode?

No that's a little too negative. Here's here's something I thought was more interesting than it is. I don't think the scene doesn't give me warm fuzzies when Cooper and Sheriff Truman are talking to Shelley about whether or not Shelley is gonna testify against Leo and Cooper it takes me back to when Cooper is like putting the pressure on James all the way back and is it episode two? Like or episode one after the pilot?

When rather than like you know likable wacky Dale Cooper we get like I'm gonna just like I see right through your bullshit Dale Cooper I guess because Cooper smells the insurance money scheme from a mile away. Yeah it's like you'll need a Shelley. You know it's because not only is he a strong sender he's a strong receiver. Well and we have more on that this episode too.

I forgot entirely that at one point actually while they should be like kind of concerned with the whereabouts of Audrey Horn considering that the whole reason the FBI is in town is that a teenage girl was killed but while they should be thinking about Audrey Cooper is diagramming out the psychic like chain that has formed around Bob in Twin Peaks in a room just like I forgot that that whole thing was blackboarded out and he's like he's saying like okay you know all three of us have had visions of this suspect and then one person on it has seen the suspect like in the flash we're on to something here you know what Albert's like God Albert has a great one. Yeah no I have it oh I have a different Albert quote up right now. Buffed it out. Are you ready?

Now you listen to me while I admit I will admit to a certain cynicism the fact is that I am a naysayer and a hatchaman and the fight against violence I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King my concerns are global I reject absolutely revenge aggression and retaliation the foundation of such a method is love I love you Sheriff Truman. That is by far I think the highlight of that episode I think so. Like that moment like now we can talk about like that moment definitely seals why Albert's like one of my favorite side characters. So for you that did not derail Albert at all.

Did it derail Albert for you? It felt like out of place. It definitely comes out of nowhere. Yeah but I think I think it goes so far to explain why this person who has otherwise just been this like seemingly very not genuine like wise-cracking asshole has it all ingratiate himself with Dale and also explains why he has continued to come back and do the work he does other than just like sheer obligation.

Like he like they're like spoke like he can sit there in the room and criticize the visions all he wants but there's a part of him that is so you know apart from center of like what the FBI is because we definitely get the sense I think from Cooper and Albert that like in other parts of the world the FBI is the FBI. Not every every agent is a weirdo like these two are. So the weirdos are stuck together and this like this explains this like little monologue gives the Sheriff Truman while both being like like weirdly sweet. I love you Sheriff Truman.

I've been poking around Tumblr and there are a lot of people who are very invested in the three-way triangle not of not of well any of the other love triangles. James Dona Matty Lucy Andy Dick Tremaine. Yeah no they're invested in Cooper Truman Albert. Wow I love triangle for the ages.

Yeah there's a part where they screen-capped you know the show and they're like they're literally standing in a triangle like Cooper and Albert no sorry Cooper and Truman are no Albert and Truman are facing each other than Cooper's in the background like completely an entire angle and I'm like that's a bit of a stretch that's just good good framing for that scene but you know whatever floats your boat I don't think that the show like really tries to set that up but you know one can dream I like that scene I like that scene I think it like I think it just I think it paints a fuller picture of Albert which is necessary whether or not it's the picture that's been painted up to this point like it wouldn't be as cool if Albert was just like the naysayers like the asshole I guess. Little shining light coming out. Will we go for air? Where did we go from how do we get to that because if you were talking about something that was pissing me off?

Probably Dick Tremaine. Well no no no you had something else you wanted to talk about the psychic link thing oh yeah and how that was actually being foregrounded and so forth which do we want to do we want to like get into that and think about like why it is like the nature of who isn't is a strong sender like Maddie has these visions Sarah has these visions Cooper has these visions like do you have a theory because I didn't have a theory I don't I guess we don't have that much talk about that I wanted like well I mean I was scratching my my head while I was watching the episode being like is there anything that's far to suggest like well I think more of a connection there other than the fact that they've all seen Bob and I was like no they just all seen Bob okay like we don't see like Sarah Palmer playing around with like fucking courts crystals or something like no unlike Dr. Jacoby not only is he chilling in his now like loo out out hospital room but like I forgot about the entire scene with like Truman both struggling to stay awake during the hypnosis thing also having to hold that big crystal I love it because I think it actually like how it shows it that Jacoby like isn't of the same mind as or like he's not like connected in the same way like Sarah who just has these terrifying visions are right like he has to be induced into this thing he's always in pursuit of his beachy vibes and his like deeper connection with himself it doesn't like just come the surface and that explains that for me that like that fits with like someone who walks around wearing fucking 3d glasses glasses all the time and like all this like kind of like seemingly for shit is that he's like in pursuit of that for himself I guess yeah that makes sense I like that scene I forgot there's another scene I like was the scene with Jacoby in the hospital yeah that was fun yeah that was fun Jacoby's usually fun Jacoby's usually fun that's not gonna be not fun let's get deeper into James Maddie and Donna yes wait do you want to hear my note yes James Marshall trying to serve Dana Ashbrook when he screams Adana she's driving away because he he's been caught kissing Maddie yeah we don't get any Dana this episode do we no so sad I'm so invested in Bobby we've talked about this yeah we do like especially Bobby is Bobby's well I've turned a new page of my life and Bobby has has arrived for me so I've accepted Bobby and I accepted specifically Dana Ashbrook yeah I've accepted Dana Ashbrook and Bobby into my life oh god yeah I did write down I became Laura for a second I wrote down James so dumb and I've also created my own like little shorthand for love triangle which is a triangle with a heart and scribe in the middle love it also this love triangle so dumb the line here's one of those lines I think you were picking up on the same as I did she acted like she wanted to do it with me through the bars yes that was one of them which is like great if what you want to do is illustrate that James is dumb but up to this point he hasn't been that like idiotic in Tohad like he hasn't been like he's been solidly like a 17 18 year old boy not like a 13 year old boy but now we know the truth now we know the truth well I mean he doesn't write a motorcycle around and play so he's a little mature he also cannot do monogamy apparently yeah incapable um God the sometimes I want to scale my bike and go oh my god don't even know that's as bad as acoustic guitar like yes please James leave just go get out on but don't but also don't gosh like I normally relish every chance we get to be placed inside the double R but now we're just getting more of that with with Maddie and James and Donna and I don't like it I don't like it are you are you don't talk if you use don't talk about this is I am gonna say anything I'm like I'm you know I don't have anything else to say about the love triangle it did take a note that Maddie says that she feels like she fell into a dream which is something that Donna says in the second episode yeah I don't have a lot to say about that other than that like Twin Peaks seems to have that effect on people and it seems to have that effect on people who might be in trouble yeah all right so I'm gonna do a little editing magic at this point and just get ready for some well it's not it's not relevant to this love story I'm repurposing it and making it relevant to a love story that is near and dear to my heart so prepare the theme song in three two one I'm gonna play it with just you and I welcome to drape runner corner stop sorry I didn't even tell you this is gonna happen and I didn't tell you that we were gonna have that become the theme song I just decided now there's no going back that's the theme song so we have the right so that song if we use a short of a clip as we do I don't think it matters welcome to drape runner corner let's start again we're not gonna play the song again where are we we're not this is where we talk about the undying love between Nadine and Ed and take me seriously for a little bit don't just like you know don't just write me off is like wanted to like goof around with this you know I've been saying some things in previous episodes or I'm just like oh it's too much to joke about or like I'm done with this joke this is a really sweet scene at the start is it at this episode okay so we we enter the hospital and Ed is talking to Doc Hayward and Dr. Hayward suggests you know maybe maybe singer a song you know because what else are you supposed to do to calm down someone who's been thrashing about while she's been in a coma and apparently needs to yield her strengths just sing a song but honestly I do think it's it's like I'm really into the scene Everett McGill like you know doing his best to sing a song that apparently is meaningful to add Nadine and then and okay Draper on her corner over maybe over for a while now we'll see because Nadine wakes up from the coma and leaves that she is 18 years old and going to cheerleader cryouts and the silent draperon is are well they're not they're not exciting to an 18 year old being really into Ed in a weird way is I love Everett McGill's face at Nadine waking up and revealing they're like you know saying like you know you're only 18 once and he's like just like the look on his face is so good it's probably the best piece of face acting in this episode yeah that's that's the end of that segment for me if you have anything to add you know I don't oh did you do you not take a note on any D nope why not because you have a cover here's another line that I think that you probably pick out like I did if you don't want a load of buckshot in your tail feathers I suggest you park your jalape underneath another window yep yep so rather than be all like hey my daughter's missing let's do something about it then could not give any fucks it seems or at least when it comes into what comes to getting police involved and also like in tones that you know he is disapproving of Cooper and Audrey's like friendship because he senses that there's more to it and pooper's like well sorry dude he's just like I will I will openly finish you with a shotgun as though you were game if you get any closer my daughter and also I know she's missing but we'll deal with it less pressing that she's missing more pressing that someone might care about her I mean also like like Ben Ben Ben Ben is not concerned about like the inappropriateness of a relationship with an underage girl he's just kind of concerned that someone gives a shit about Audrey um here another quote that I have this is actually like my last real quote from the episode okay Donna Madonna there's always money on it I did also write on that one hey after that not being not being there like that funnier clever that one like if that's all we knew about Laura she has a passion for Ryan's look pretty bad um God Donna Madonna there's always my gonna are you sure you don't want to close the show on that for now on you know I might we'll find out um it's like suggests another day you know like another episode I was saying we were on to something here maybe but please don't is that it yeah those are honestly my only notes from the episode it's all I just feel like there's there are other things happening like Shelley and her potential insurance fraud maybe wait do we see Bobby and Shelley in this episode we do we just talked about no we know we see them I thought we said that we don't see Dana after this I think we do doing what doesn't Shelley talks to him about the fact that they like knew that the sheriff knows about the insurance fraud or that they didn't question her weird there's like a very brief scene of that I might it might even be on the phone I just remember her being like talking to someone about it and the only person she could talk to would be Bobby well maybe it may have been maybe it's just on the phone like we also like Pete's on the phone at one point because Josie's been on the phone Pete like these are like it feels like a cramp a lot in this episode and maybe that's why it's kind of weird with you know the seeming lack of urgency given where's Audrey like well yeah to address but also not a lot happened a lot of time was spent on Donna Maddie and James that quite frankly could have not been spent to the point where it's like Donna has to see them twice to be adequately jealous like no one of those fucking scenes got the scene at the diner and just have it be when James is like real upset because my mom's back and it's like yeah that's the perfect end that's not even a character moment like really like for James just so that they can be close to one another and have just you and I playing again and then just like have that be the scene and give more space to like literally any of the other characters before we move on to use that we didn't talk about Leland and Pearl Lakes so yeah that's true it's pretty what's Pearl where's Pearl Lakes cuz Hawk gets there it gets back pretty quick so it seems like you know you're from Washington so it's a don't is it a real place are we assuming it's a real place I soon was a place I thought that's where you were going with this shit no no we're stuck in this Google here you look it up on Google I'm looking it up on Google fine you'll be faster yeah so Leland's like I recognize that man play with fire sounds like our man also like Cooper there's like the great scene that you can tell was where they cut to commercial where Cooper picks up the lit match and blows on it oh yeah like that's such a TV move to end on that so there is a Pearl Lake and it is on Vancouver Island which as you would think is in Vancouver so that's pretty far away yeah so it's made up it's made up for the show no Hawk is just really fast Hawk is just lightning fast he's got that new pass with a new light rail that's been built between Twin Peaks and Vancouver Island okay so it was just vaguely Northwest sounding enough to be a place I guess but yeah Robertson like this is like this is like their big break in the case for them this episode is that Leland recognizes this guy but then they don't take much deeper than this like you remember the name is like I think it was Robertson and then it's not just like who like starts to try and recontextualize the evidence all he goes like oh we have letters RBT Robertson like case solved like it seems like when you get like someone who recognize like you put that question you put that person in a room and you ask them as many questions as possible it's not just like Leland drop by hey it's a really sweet scene between I feel like it's a sweet scene like I love what Cheryl and Ray are doing just as professionals as acting professionals what I'm saying between Leland and Matty and then the actual police work of the episode finally concluded after after Jacoby that was questioned they found out that we went done done did off never know done done that murder and I wonder if they like assume now that like they're like on the same page like that's why your hair turned like this or if they're not putting that two together but yeah that's how this episode ends so when the next episode starts on totally bonkers place just remember oh wait do you know what else we're forgetting what are we forget we've gone through this episode a pretty good clip because we used to complain about long these episodes were yeah I know but then it like became our thing and now it's not our thing and maybe like in second half of season two just every episode of the podcast we 15 minutes of going anyway what are we missing man if one on without yeah that dude is that all you have to say you don't have any notes about um not really frankly no but a okay without chemical viewpoints seems kind of like a reach like Cooper's interpretation of that needle on the ground I mean because he knew the one our man had appeared him yeah no no that is but like I think that's I think that's enough to go on it is like so it is clear also given a set of so like this is important to talk about because we know that at least if we're taking putting stock in Cooper's dreams at this point that the one our man is related somehow we see him about to inject some drug into himself but then stop emerge anyway and then talk about Bob yeah now we have like now we are as the audience kind of in the same position in a way in terms of witnessing things as Ronette was in that right we are witnessing something that has been suggested to people in these visions actually have like a real-world physical manifested consequence in that this dude has an attack and then comes out sounding all weird and runs off and just like abandoned the police station probably left all his like really expensive boots there yeah wait you know what my note is it's this hairy you dumb ass why because later like true Cooper comes in and is like what's up Truman and he's like not much have you seen that one arm dude because he went to the bathroom and never came back and that was hours ago like you don't think that that's a sign of some sort of distress sheriff Truman look I mean in Twin Peaks people routinely spend hours and hours in the bathroom that's where Audrey's been this whole time have you have you checked the bathrooms in the rain or didn't she's probably just in there I mean there are a lot of them so we do know that she spends time in the bathroom just having a sick and hanging out at school so just saying yeah all right tell me about usenette what do I have to say about usenette I have a little baby production notes not very long okay so this was directed by Leslie Linka water or however you pronounce that she had previously directed Cooper's dreams pretty important episode written by Robert Engels who previously wrote the one-armed man also a pretty important episode both of which seem to sort of thematically cross what's going on here okay are you ready for some theories oh god we're just moving straight on to that okay yes that was that was it for that I mean I have some other we'll get to it later okay ready okay theory number one Bob is a vampire the one arm the one I know there are some parts the one armed man is a vampire the owls are vampires and Laura died in a botched vampire biting okay okay and then someone commented that it was kind of weird or maybe suspicious that Nadine wakes up as an 18 year old which was presumably the age that Laura was when she died maybe not okay and then surprisingly where this three went is maybe Nadine is Bob which is not where I thought I was going when I started reading it okay all right and then some people are posting articles from like actual publications onto the Usenette boards there's a Toronto star article article titled Intwinfiques Satan is a hometown boy describing a theory about ritual Satanic ceremonies and the town of Twin Peaks and then here's the goods so spy magazines annualist of the top hundred annoying alarming and appalling people places and things for this year number 75 is the Twin Peaks lifestyle so now discrete yepies have their own rocky horror picture show their nerdish once a week obsession their reason to hold theme parties featuring donuts pie eye patches and in the case of one well publicized peak shindig a woman watching the final episode from inside a plastic body bag mitigating factor no report no reports of peak conventions in Snoqualmie yet hmm I didn't realize that people wanted to be such haters even back then I mean it's pretty natural I just have this this pastoral time you know back when think pieces wouldn't be written just saying like yeah fuck fans of Twin Peaks though fuck stuff that's popular fuck things people like yeah then again I have this article where I take down brony culture you should really check it out it's at bit.ly slash this article doesn't exist I'm making a joke right now anyway I would read that yeah I mean I'm not that great a writer so you can probably find better elsewhere well man vampires Nadine is Bob does that mean I have to rework draper on her corner if it ever comes back to think about Ed Nadine Norma and then Bob is a love square now there there are some people moving closer to the truth but I'm not covering that okay any case if that if that's all it is for using that just people being like I mean I think watching parties can be ridiculous and seeing corny and stuff but like I'm more surprised at the perceived audience of this show or like fan base of this show where yuppies yeah also like wait it's not it's not Heather's that this line is from it's not hippie which it's Twin Peaks and it's very in right now it's from my so-called life okay my so-called life all right like I don't know like well it was it was a really big thing when it came out I mean by this period we were at almost half the rating of the pilot right but wait like I'm trying to I don't want to put our we don't know Scott who gets it on the show two episodes ago well enough to say whether or not he might have fit a yuppy mold Scott were you a yuppy let me know on Twitter we know Scott were you a yuppy like it's okay if you were to be honest but I'm trying to think of like people other than my I think it's safe to say my parents are not yuppies and then my mom already at this point stopped watching as of last week's episode but I'm trying to think of people who I know who watch the show live and maybe some of them were yuppies maybe some of them yuppies but this is on and maybe that's not too far off the bed well like just saying do we know if like do we know if sort of like a like a you know I mean it feels like way way too stereotypical and like off the mark to say or to put any like way behind this but like do you know if like a brooding or like punk lifestyle was you know was a mesh between piece at this point or is this something that like we're maybe more used to seeing given that we came the show later when it's been embraced by you know more people that type like was this water cooler television at like the fucking like accounting firm and not at all like a thing that people were like you know living the you know living the not standard life what am I fucking saying like who was this show who was it that's what I'm saying well I think one thing that we have to think about is the fact that a lot of people from the use their boards and from I think some of our discussions with people who originally saw the show it's difficult to keep up with if you can't watch it every week and if you miss an episode you really it's very difficult to pick up from there so the people who might be watching the show the most fervently are the people who have VCRs in their home and it means of recording and re-watching the show that or they're just like available consistently to see it so close out a lot of people who work service jobs I imagine just like if you can't make the time for evening television like that like might be one possible explanation like I feel like before television has moved to where it is today where like anybody can watch any show at their leisure because that's how most people seem to be or like the session they may be like talking about television is consuming it like a for Tevo like basically you never had a worry about watching it live or having tapes or something it's just like yeah I felt like TV I feel like TV might have been more like you know broadly safe then because who's gonna have the time to watch it in the evening somebody's working on 95 maybe I don't know like you're not gonna you're not gonna reach out for I'm not saying who was in the twin piece that's what I'm saying it's what I just can't do this if you know who actually watching from he's you can sit here and be like oh they had to have access to use that maybe they're in college we know some people who are in college at the time that probably doesn't have to use they're probably all eating ramen and whatever whether like toiling away to get liberal arts degrees etc but like that's like still only a portion of the audience like was there like a primary audience for the show and who was it I do know we have to talk about Mahal and drive and we do and looking into that just like you know everything I've you know intake and read about David Lynch people are like he's the first popular surrealist yeah that's the thing is it's like there's I think I've alluded to this I don't know if you feel same way but they're like there's like a strain of people who are into David Lynch and the way it appears that their appreciation is just like it's so weird like it's weird I don't get it and it's dreamy and you if you're me you stop and ask yourself like but how much does this person like think about what goes into that and like how much decision making is behind that or they think that it's just like you know it's kind of like this is a weird parallel it's like the people who look at Tim and Eric and are just like they must make that show when they're completely stoned out in minds because they're just like it's so fucking weird and like I don't understand where it's going at all and this stuff and they don't like consider that maybe these are like people with weird interests who sit down but like still the end of the day like it's a show that's very much constructed through like both like normal like you know sketch writing conventions and also then just like creative editing neither of which are things that I think are enhanced by like if you were to go like smoke a fat blunt and then sit down at Adobe Premiere and try to make like a good TV show like I don't think that that's how those people are working and I'd be shocked to find out if so so I feel like there's also like people who are in the David Lynch are just like it's weird and it's my status thing that I like this weird thing more than I really appreciate what's going on and like the thought behind this.

Hmm, that's a fair point. But maybe I'm just being a hater of people who like the same things I like. Maybe you're being a hipster. Probably shoot me for saying that honestly.

Probably let's talk about Mahaland Drive. Alright so you had not seen Mahaland Drive before which is kind of the reverse of our situation when we saw Blue Velvet. Yep same theater shout out to the Laura Hearst. I guess the reason why the tickets have been so cheap and why it's been 21 up is because it's like they're like fan or like audience appreciation month or whatever and so like all the movies that are like having these like they've been running the Avengers this whole time and whatever because they're like a second run theater but like these like little week long engagements this week it's a do the right thing.

Oh wait shit I should go see that. Yeah I've never seen it. Wait is that tomorrow? Let's see it.

Well I was thinking about seeing it your Friday or Monday. Well is it if it's playing like right now tomorrow will be the last day? No it's starting. Okay I think it starts.

I don't know what it is this week. Okay. But anyway great little theater. Shouts out.

Did not eat pizza this time there. But they had special Mahaland Drive pizza. They did. So that's cool.

This has been a big way of me talking about the movie because like I said I don't know how much good shit I have to say. Okay so the most interesting thing about Mahaland Drive from a Twin Peaks standpoint is that Mahaland Drive was originally conceived as a back door pilot for a Sherland fan as Audrey Horn. She's gonna get a spin off at one point. And I think we both came out of that movie wondering what that would have looked like and I dug a little deeper.

So I had originally assumed that Sherland would have taken the part of Rita slash Camilla. Oh yeah this is a Mahaland Drive spoiler cast now. Very spoilery. Yeah.

Mostly because like Sherland fan is very femme to thaw. Like I could see her being that very easily. But apparently the role that was originally written for Audrey and then retooled over the course of the next decade was the part of Betty Elm slash Diane Selwyn. Well okay.

Naomi Watts. Went to Naomi Watts also. Let's be clear here. Sherland pretty recently said that Mahaland Drive was conceived as the pilot right?

Yeah. Like this has only been like solid well you know we'll call it solid knowledge for a while now. Like the people knew that Mahaland Drive was a TV pilot initially. Yeah.

Yeah. And the point at which the turn comes in the movie. Yes. Up everything up to that point that's a TV pilot.

Yes. So Betty's role was conceived as originally as being Audrey Horn. Yeah. Which up to that point where this is a television pilot that is building to suggest more things.

Makes sense to me. Um like it makes sense to me that the the well we're talking about this now. Right now on the show Audrey is like being held captive at when I jacks or whatever. But with where Audrey goes and wherever Audrey was intended to go before the before Twin Peaks was like cut short essentially by cancellation.

It makes sense to me that you could engineer it or like the story could engineer it. You can write the story such that Audrey is put in a position where she is going to LA to start this new life and has some of that kind of uh kind of positive energy that we see Betty have. But probably like it would have never been in the same way. Yeah it would have been the same.

Like it would have been very different. But you could see like the situation in largely the same. Like starting this new life and maybe hoping to escape like the the life that Twin Peaks gave her. Right.

Only to be pulled into whatever the fuck is happening in the Mahaland Drive version of LA. Right. And so I think the other interesting part about Mahaland Drive is you know it was this TV pilot that was originally shot and then they kind of tacked on the last third of the movie as it means to finish it. Which is what happened with the European version of the Twin Peaks pilot.

Which we've been talking about off and on throughout this podcast. So um the European version of the Twin Peaks pilot as I understand it is included on the Gold Box DVD edition of Twin Peaks as well as the Blu-ray set. I'm like very certain it's in the Gold Box edition. I don't know if it made an Blu-ray set but I would assume so.

That VHS tape I have is the European cut. So it is Twin Peaks the pilot cut as a movie. Yeah. And without like I mean maybe we should do like a real quick one-off one time or like revisit it just in the middle of another episode after we've watched the European pilot.

But essentially what happens is that it's pilot up to a point that Cooper goes to sleep. Has a dream that's later shown in episode three of Twin Peaks. And the dream is extended there are points at which he actually references in conversation with Sheriff Truman and Lucie at the beginning of the next episode that you see in the dream of the European pilot. And the dream tells him where to find Bob.

And Bob is played by Frank Silva. He's in a creepy room and then they confront him and then Mike the One-Art man comes and shoots Bob. And I guess that's how it ends. Okay.

This is me giving you the plot so that when we go watch that we can truly do the solid analytical work. Thank you. Thank you for giving me that leg up. But yeah that's super weird because if you compare that with the parallel of- No I didn't do it.

My whole drive was a TV pilot that like so this is my first time watching the movie. I'm super into it. I'm like like enthralled by all the performances and all the like strange mysteries that are being set up. I love the cowboy.

Justin Thoreau I couldn't stop thinking that he looks exactly like River's Cuomo in this movie. But I was thinking to myself like you know it's super interesting that you know there's this director character who's like definitely not a self-insert. That doesn't share a lot in common with David Lynch it seems. Most importantly Billy Ray Cyrus is in the movie.

Billy Ray Cyrus is in the movie. We have to get ready for a full- you want a two-hour episode of Prince Pete's we're gonna spend half an hour on Billy Ray Cyrus. No so Billy Ray Cyrus, not anyone who wants shit. The old folks the cowboy.

Oh man there's just like it's chalk a block with all this stuff that seems to be suggesting and sending out so much stuff. Michael Anderson the man from another place the dwarf. Yeah oh my god. In this strange prosthetic suit as like the man behind glass.

Just came up with the saying behind like pulling the strings behind the movie studio. It's all super great and then it was about at the two-hour market of the movie. When I started to count like on one hand all of the threads that had been set up. Being like how does this all result?

Not knowing that Mahaland Drive was a TV pilot that was then tacked onto. And not knowing about the twist. Like the turn of the movie. So good job.

Like sometimes when you go into something without knowing much about it. You can be like totally affected. Which is to say though I think had I known that there was this twist which is like then like something happens and like maybe it's like all the dream or maybe there's other things at play. I think I still would have been like fucking see my pants like pulled by every twist and turn of this movie.

Not the least of which Billy Ray Cyrus let me just say. But I guess to go back to the beginning of the episode maybe it's a good thing that I didn't know that much about Mahaland Drive before seeing it. Maybe. Yeah.

What what things do you want to dive into D about the movie? I think the and we talked about this after we saw the movie. I think that was most where I can be on this watch because I had seen Mahaland Drive as a young teen. I remember I like watched it out of family road trip like my dad was driving and my mom was up right my brother was next to me and I was like watching it on my computer like not having seen it before.

So the sex scenes were awkward. Very strange as a young young teen on a family road. Is that the first time you saw it then? So did you like on this road trip?

Yeah. So did you like audibly yelp at the winky scene? Yes. Oh my god I did.

Oh that's the I told you this is like one of the worst jump scares to me. It's the only one. It's what you haven't seen it. I mean but like one of the worst jump scares I've seen.

Right. But it's like I'm not a horror aficionado or like really I am pretty a versus jump scares generally but I feel like and this is like of course not knowing it was coming. I knew that there was going to be something around that fucking corner. That whole scene one the scene in the diner like one diner scene great lynching parallel whatever I want to say felt more like it felt more like something that like Quentin Tarantino would have seen in the dream and then like scribble down in like his dream journal and then came back to it later and then he would have turned it into the fucking scene from Pulp Fiction.

Like would not have kept that property of like I don't understand like what the fuck this was. But that whole scene I forget the name of the actor but we were both like we've seen in everything including the most recent novel. Yeah shameless shameless and Silicon Valley season two. But the guy who has the the dream premonition about the homeless man who is behind winkeys and who like fucking has a heart attack and dies after the jump scare.

But the the camera work and the all the setup that's given in that scene and the the complete like I guess like I'm game if your game attitude of the guy he's talking to to like act out the dream and then go look for this man. Like everything set that up was like something scary is going to pop out and literally he just kind of slides from there on the corner and the fact that I felt like I knew it was coming and it was executed is that the fact that it is still scared the shit out of me like even though I knew it was going to happen said a lot and the movie totally earns it and then it spends a lot of the rest of the movie kind of doing that tight camera work around corners and stuff and I felt like I knew it wasn't going to pull the same thing again but that it still tends to tell like I love that moment probably like just having seen it once I was like hey now one of my favorite scenes from the movie ever. Really? Yeah.

Interesting. Well um so like I feel like a lot of people like you know for instance pull a picture and they like see the scene in the diner and they're just like that's one of the greatest scenes of all time and it's like how do you ever just like watch something once and say that but I've been thinking about the leaky scene a bunch since we saw the movie. Really? And I like can't come up with anything really more sensitive than like I like a lot like they do so much right with that anyway.

Anyway so what I was going to bring up with that this time watching the film what really struck me was the aesthetic change when the turn happens because there was a like obviously a gap between shooting the TV pilot and then adding on what becomes the back end of the movie and it's a pretty stark difference because the first two thirds of the movie are shot with like the very flatly lit mid shots that you see in a lot of Twin Peaks and then the back end of the movie has a lot more close-ups and kind of longer shots and some more the lighting gives it some more depth because there's more shadows and it's a more commercial look. And so my question sort of is like why did this change happen? Was it a purely aesthetic choice? Was it like well now it's going to be a movie this is how we're going to shoot it?

Was this how Lynch's style evolved in the period between shooting the first part of the movie and shooting the second part of the movie? We also have to ask about Peter Deming. That's the thing right? Cinematographer?

Yeah. Yeah. Because you know how much of that was also like we're thinking a lot about that cinematography like maybe doesn't get enough do but we have to talk about that. I can't help but feel that this maybe was just an artifact of production that was embraced.

Like the... It's so different from Lynch's style that we see in Twin Peaks and that we see in Blue Velvet though. It's such a departure. I mean both an artifact of production that's embraced not just saying like oh they were like well now we have like a totally different setup and less time and we're doing this for the big screen so we'll change things and we'll be like mindless of it.

But also you know reading about what you know David Lynch who you know has a reputation for not liking to talk about his work after it's been completed though saying that like yeah I went back when it wasn't picked up for the pilot and like created what became a movie in that second piece and it all came to me and so forth. Like like I have to imagine some that has to be embracing that this thing started one way and that now he had the opportunity to complete it one way and then he's like and I think there was a quote that's a long line of like and then it all came to me like it was meant to be this way but he still can't help but feel like not though like you would have also made it a television show that was meant to be another way like the like odd circumstances of this production especially now knowing as we do that it started out as a twin-peak spinoff basically. It all lends itself to you know I think you would just like take the opportunity where you're just like well essentially what I've been given is the I've been dealt the hand of I have to make this thing I have to now wrap it up so it's ready for screen so why not just double down on that and maybe force a change in my visual style to further bring attention to that almost because we're talking about like you notice this time the change in style but it's like hella hella noticeable and I didn't know the reason behind it you knew the reason behind it maybe you knew more what to look for but also just like a chain of content like oh my god if the first two hours of movie don't make you uncomfortable they made me very uncomfortable. But I think the question that I'm asking in it that since it applies to twin peaks and the reboot is like is does the choice to shoot the back half of Mahal and Drive differently maybe indicate choices that are going to be made in the production of season three?

Is this just how Lin shoots movies now or are we going to see something that more resembles the flat mid shots of twin peaks? I would doubt it I would doubt it a lot. The change. I don't think I don't think that this I mean it also is like what a year-long gap like you don't just like you're not just like an established director and then throw out everything you thought about like how to shoot a movie and like do flat lighting and yeah like just because you change your mind unless you're like well okay anyone would do it maybe would be a David Lynch type but drink your drink I'm gonna bring a firewalk with me.

I think what I'm more concerned about is will twin peaks look sufficiently different to our eyes because it will now be shot digital and widescreen and so forth like is it going to look more like that movie is it going to look different enough for those reasons and yet still rely otherwise on like a lot of the formal formal kind of styling that Twin Peaks the show in the first two seasons but just like looks so different now because of just the just like the unescapable technology changes or will embrace those in a new way sort of like it seems like Molin Drive embraced then like coming to the screen once once the back half was added on also added on does still feel weird like that's the thing this movie is definitely a whole right now it doesn't feel like it's not a whole it also doesn't feel like it gives you a lot of solid ground to stand on can we talk about the thing that you sent me yeah we can talk about looking at my second am I railroading past something you want to talk about really no that was hesitant I can shut up I mean not really I was just like reading about the movie as I do and I was surprised that there were some comments by people in the movie they're like yeah it's not a lesbian movie I don't think it's a lesbian movie it's definitely a lesbian movie yeah this is I don't know I don't know if you watch the same film while you were making it but it's definitely not not a part of the thing okay you sent me this thing that was apparently okay Wikipedia says contained within the original DVD releases a card title I have I have the DVD it's in the DVD it is in the DVD David Lynch's 10 foods unlocking this thriller I highly doubt he provided these considering his reputation for not wanting to talk about films he's like the like another director who I want to like but every like passing year I have less and less reason to like is really Scott I love alien I love Blade Runner my love kind of actually stops there if I'm being honest um yeah but um I think it's interesting and like worthwhile that David Lynch is like aware of like the import the interpretive importance of death of the author and is like upholding that boundary as opposed to someone like Ridley Scott who comes out and says hey by the way Deckard is a replicant sorry Blade Runner spoiler cast or not depending on how you feel about just watching the movie and then like really says and I will say I think progressively better and better cuts of his movie but also continually make steps to foreground that as the interpretation like hitting you over the head with it um like David Lynch wouldn't do that he wouldn't he might tell a story about how in the creative process he filmed the television pilot and then turned it into a movie and it was right and maybe that's could possibly be putting a nice bow on his creative process maybe a little much but that's fine that's a story that will take can we can we take a sidebar to barce uh shit a sidebar yeah let's do it okay let's take a sidebar um so one text that I think is really important so Roland Barthes uh the seminal theorist you published the death of the author hi our moms by the way for this segment hi to my thesis advisor hi to everyone in the english department thesis advisor listening to this oh you're I told him how to find it so he might be okay but you're just saying this because you're referencing parts I'm saying you're about to have what might turn into a very esoteric academic discussion hi moms anyway so Roland Barthes published death of the author which is a pretty seminal piece of theory about the active interpretation and how kind of the completion of an artistic or aesthetic object the literature or visual art or music or choreography or whatever kind of releases it from the interpretive authority of its creator and at this point it's just this thing out in the world that everyone can interpret um and then Barthes published a couple of other um theory based pieces that I think are kind of important to like put in context uh Barthes mythologies which is kind of just about how we read visual metaphors and visual images um and how uh how we um can as a kid as like an interpretive community or whatever uh like achieve the same achieve the same um cultural reading of a certain work a certain artistic object because of these culturally available clues uh that's the whole other thing but then Barthes camera Lucida I think is the most important thing to really put uh death of the author in context and Barthes talks about punkdom in studio um and studio is this culturally available reading of the work so the example that he uses in camera lucia is this photo of like soldiers walking past a group of nuns this was during I think maybe this was in this was in relation to some imperialist occupation without the station country I'm sorry I don't know the specifics but anyway we can look at that that picture and see oh I see what this picture is saying about like war or whatever but um and that's the studio but the punkdom is like whatever grabs you as an individual audience member and that can ultimately affect your interpretation in ways that you and fellow audience members can't anticipate and so death of the authors ultimately I think sort of responding to um the idea of these two forms of interpretation and I think david lynch has given some quotes that are really like cognizant of the importance of punkdom and the importance of like um very personal reactions to artwork and how david lynch's own punkdom and his own personal reactions to the work he's creating has created the interpretation that he um has ultimately formed about his own work. Bart's are we talking about these 10 things that are written down on this dvd card yeah or are we just gonna disregard them as bullshit after considering that even if david lynch penned these himself and is talking either about his interpretation personally or the interpretation that he intended audiences to eventually arrive at if they just like sat down and thought real hard like it even mattered as now um ultimately like that gets into the question that like has played postmodernism forever which is like how do you interpret anything and it's by making an argument that's founded within like the interpretive artifact itself so what does that have to do with the dvd insert um i'm saying that this is like referring to specific things in the movie as opposed to being like here's a broad statement and no proof to back it up so i think it's more worthwhile than some other it says it's like a paint by numbers like if you if you can make 10 successful arguments based off of these 10 clues you will have cracked the you will have unlocked the little blue box that is mohon drive not quite but we can go with that for the sake of the podcast all right number one pay particular attention in the beginning of the film at least two clues are revealed before the credits now we walked in late because we were getting beers so i didn't even see these two clues apparently i know what they are but what are they um it's a surrealist rendering of bedi participating in a jitterbug contest the jitterbug contest that lets her move from the end of the la and it's a surreal okay all right the old people are there too all right so sounds like a loaded image too notice the appearances of the red lamp shade all right do you have anything to add on that um i mean you just get that montage of different phones and that's where the red lamp shade appears uh three can you hear the title of the film that adam kesher is auditioning actresses for is it mentioned again i don't know if it's actually again i don't think i heard it it's the sylvian north story and it appears in the last third of the film because uh kamilla and uh diana are talking about how that's where they met okay so they've found that that's where they met okay you can take that any number of directions uh for an accident is a terrible event notice the location of the accident it's right outside adam's house mohon drive yep also what a movie for the if they say the title of the movie in the movie drink um depending on how strong your drink is you will you'll be happy with all of that or or not because it's dangerous um who gives key and why um so who gives the key uh ant Ruth gives a key to beddy okay right so that beddy and um jaykub from lost gives a key to diane right okay or he says when she receives the key then she'll know that the deed is done and we do see that key on her coffee table um the deed was to kill kill kamilla right okay all right oh and there's also i mean there's that key in reed as bag but that's not given to anyone yeah who gave that key why no um six notice the road the ashtray the coffee cup can you fill me on on these little tidbits so i assume that you went and looked up people's answers to all all ten of these or sat there for while on puddle bomb yourself okay um so obviously that's what um diane is wearing when she wakes up in the back half of the film and i think that's also what we kind of see um diane sellwin 1.0 wearing or we see that around her house uh when they go peek in on her dead body okay what it's felt realized and gathered at the club selencio um i would like to see a definitive answer i do not have a definitive answer for that okay now i'm looking at a list of answers and there's there's a lot more going on with the road the ashtray and the coffee cup but we don't have to cover that okay to tell a lone help kamilla um all depends on that one um no because the whole conspiracy in the first half of the movie is to get kamilla cast in the film yeah so nine well wait but doesn't kamilla i mean that kamilla is also what uh read his name is right in the second half or what you're asking about yeah okay we're talking about the first half and so we're talking about the the first half giving us clues to interpret what has happened up to that point in the second half all right potentially yeah notice the occurrences surrounding the man behind winkeys or no the occurrence is sorry uh yeah they're fucking scary in kamilla. Although we do see the homeless person behind winkeys again at the end of the movie yes with the key yes um so also is that where the the tiny the tiny little people crawl out the tiny little people the tiny little old folks yeah yeah so um yeah given that if you can tell me what was happening uh oh in ten where is aunt rufe? she is filming a movie in canada or she's dead that's that's the answer and she gave diana inheritance if she is dead okay well if we don't have anything more to say on that uh moholland drive great great movie um it was i if i also recall what i was reading on wikipedia and around it's also the only uh david lynch or it's the first david lynch movie that roder ebert was like on board with uh take that as you will i feel like blue velvet's pretty solid um i understand like okay so what have i seen so far blue velvet twin piece and this uh twin piece far walk with me like very few people received that well i feel like it's only uh recovered um in the critical eye more recently uh but yeah moholland drive people people dug it yeah it's a it's a very good film it premiered at can it like really started nayomi watson's career nayomi watson's in king kong right yeah yeah so we have moholland drive to thank where peter jackson's king kong also with jack black but also nayomi watson's great appearances in bojak worsman no i haven't gotten there yet spoilers spoilers come on come on actually you have all people you have all people this is now a blade runner one time bojak worsman uh twin peeks the spoiler cast well twin peeks for the show up to this point spoiler cast no any spoilers if that's everything i feel like i talk too much so obviously i'm happy also on twitter spell it right that's me oh and i'm ashley brand on twitter and you guys should like our facebook page which you can find by searching twin peeks peeks we get two more likes i can finally access facebook analytics so please do that and help me access facebook analytics for that page you can also follow us on twitter and you can follow us on tumblr and i post different things on all of those various uh social media platforms so there's a reason to follow all of them yep do it okay all right we didn't talk about north bend at all but this is a really long podcast it's a really long podcast well i mean it's not there with our others but we also talked about leaving north bend for a separate episode such that if you consider anything we talk about it all spoiler it's not part of the show it's part of a bonus episode that you can skip over so which will be coming out soon uh we also didn't do food but we'll roll it into that because we were gonna talk about the food that we ate north bend anyway yeah so no damn fine food here if that's that's why you listen to the show i'm sorry to disappoint after two hours we are we are sorry to leave you in the cold like that go to the bonus episode we can yeah all right um and my new podcast are coming out soon um the k-hole will be theoretically coming out around this time next week this time if you're listening to it on friday of this week so next week so the the new season of keeping up with the cardash into starting is what you're saying yeah and the k-hole will be coming out the k-hole is gonna be great uh we have a lot of segments planned it's gonna be it's gonna be do not miss podcasting do go listen to it whether or not you keep up with the cardash into yourself maybe i'm looking to this uh as maybe a uh opportunity to start keeping up with the cardash ends i might have to catch up with them first but you got ten seasons um okay then fuck that i don't matter you're a fuse of praise for keeping up with cardash ends you cannot sell me on having to go fill in ten seasons you don't have to you don't really have to watch the early seasons but um the other podcast that should be coming out soon is tentatively titled yeah i've seen that and it's gonna be me and sandera diana talking about movies and we're gonna be talking about the emmys so that makes three actually bring podcasts with a fourth on the way not mentioned here today uh i'll just keep doing this one and the other one and like i said i talk too much go go listen to it hashtag cyg tt actually can you close out the show uh dana mordana there's always money on us dana