EPISODE · May 19, 2026 · 55 MIN
The Mess
from What I Wish They'd Told Me · host New Geneva Academy
In our third episode, Stephen Baker and Aaron Prelock sit down to talk about the part of ministry that many traditional seminary programs simply cannot simulate: the mess.Theological mess. Historical mess. The mess of sinners and the mess we ourselves bring to the work. Aaron and Stephen talk about why so many young men set out to be the pastor whose church will not have these problems, why preaching and pastoral care cannot be split apart, and why the "clean machine" expectation — that Christians do not sin and good pastors do not either — quietly shuts down the work of sanctification it claims to protect. An old line surfaces near the end: a pastor should smell like his sheep.0:00 — Introduction1:30 — What do we mean by "the mess"?4:15 — Church history is not historical reenactment7:00 — The young pastor with stars in his eyes10:45 — Theoretical theology vs. practical theology13:30 — Leviticus 16 and the linen robe17:00 — Hospital waiting rooms and Job's counselors22:00 — Preaching is pastoral care27:30 — Over-correcting and damned with faint praise33:00 — Where do you go when you realize you need to grow?37:00 — Owen, self-knowledge, and the wounded healer41:30 — The expectation that Christians do not sin46:00 — Sexual sin, abuse, and the "clean machine" church51:00 — The hazmat suit: justification before sanctification56:00 — A pastor should smell like his sheep1:00:00 — Hospitality, marriage, and the witness of small mercies
What this episode covers
In our third episode, Stephen Baker and Aaron Prelock sit down to talk about the part of ministry that many traditional seminary programs simply cannot simulate: the mess.Theological mess. Historical mess. The mess of sinners and the mess we ourselves bring to the work. Aaron and Stephen talk about why so many young men set out to be the pastor whose church will not have these problems, why preaching and pastoral care cannot be split apart, and why the "clean machine" expectation — that Christians do not sin and good pastors do not either — quietly shuts down the work of sanctification it claims to protect. An old line surfaces near the end: a pastor should smell like his sheep.0:00 — Introduction1:30 — What do we mean by "the mess"?4:15 — Church history is not historical reenactment7:00 — The young pastor with stars in his eyes10:45 — Theoretical theology vs. practical theology13:30 — Leviticus 16 and the linen robe17:00 — Hospital waiting rooms and Job's counselors22:00 — Preaching is pastoral care27:30 — Over-correcting and damned with faint praise33:00 — Where do you go when you realize you need to grow?37:00 — Owen, self-knowledge, and the wounded healer41:30 — The expectation that Christians do not sin46:00 — Sexual sin, abuse, and the "clean machine" church51:00 — The hazmat suit: justification before sanctification56:00 — A pastor should smell like his sheep1:00:00 — Hospitality, marriage, and the witness of small mercies
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The Mess
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