The Modern Sex Work Debate - Bonnie Blue & Louise Perry - #997

Louise, why were you interested in sitting down with Bonnie? I find it really interesting. I think that a lot, just having talked to women about doing this conversation, the response from so many women is, I think, something like morbid curiosity. Yeah.

Like interested in you, confused by you. Yeah. And the main thing that I'm hoping to learn about you today, because I don't know about your work, is your psychology, your personality, what it is about you that's led you to do this. Yeah.

Because I get the impression, from having watched interview and so on, that actually, over the years, I've interviewed loads and loads of women, I've spoken to loads and loads of women, who've been in the sex industry in various ways, whether that's porn or prostitution, brothels, street walking, whatever. And every single case, they've talked about distress, trauma, or having a horrible time, like 20 degrees. Yeah. You don't talk about that.

And I think that you're telling the truth. I think, actually, you don't find this work causes you psychological harm. Yeah. And I guess I want to find out why.

I think that's a really interesting question. Yeah. No, I think it's good, because everyone always assumes, anyone wants to say multiple times, I'm not traumatized, I'm not heard about it, I'll bring in, everyone thinks I'm lying. And it's really not the case, and it's terrible for some people, unfortunately, I'll bring in all the terrible things that happen.

But for me, I've just chosen to do this. How familiar are you with Louise's work? Do you know what she writes about? No, I'm not.

Okay, how would you, what's a 30,000-foot view to explain to Bonnie sort of your philosophical underpinnings? So, I guess I'm coming at this as a conservative, and I've, I mean, I wrote a book called The Case Against the Central Revolution, I'm generally critical of the Central Revolution and porn. I worked in a requested centre for a chemist journalist, which I guess is in full of my view. And my general view on the sex industry is very negative.

So, we're going to come at this from different perspectives. But I do, like, I'm guessing that a lot of people listening are going to assume that I'm going to try and uncover trauma in you, or I'm going to try and, like, break through the... You'd waste your time. And I think that's right, and that's part of the reason I'm interested.

I'm more interested in talking to you than I would be to say, Lily Phillips. Yeah. Because I think that Lily, to me, and to a lot of people, I think it's clear that Lily is actually suffering quite a lot and is having a hard time. She seems traumatised.

Right. Which is, in a way, the less interesting story. More obvious. Yeah.

And it is horrible. Like, I'm very lucky and fortunate to be in the position I'm in because I'm not traumatised, I'm not upset, I'm not distressed. But I think for a lot of people, and especially not sex workers, they're completely out of their comfort zone, or they're doing things for money and views, or, unfortunately, they've had a bad upbringing that much has led them to be a sex worker. And it is terrible, and it is horrible, and it's not always the nicest of industry for most people.

Would you advise Lily to stop? Yeah. I think if you're going to keep crying and upset and it's destroying your family, there's some things which are a lot more valuable than money and views. The biggest thing in life, and it's so simple, is to be happy.

And if you're not happy, why do something? Because, yes, you could be driving fancy cars, and you could wear flashy clothes, but if you're not happy, what is it all for? As long as each day I'm waking up happy and I'm going to sleep happy, I'll be proud of myself. Other people might be disgusted with me, and I accept that, but for me, as long as I'm happy, then that's okay.

What bits of it makes you happy, of what you do? It's a mixture. It's not one thing. It's not like, oh, it's the orgasm.

Oh, it's the money. It's the views. The main part of it is the life I live now, both inside, work, and outside. I get to travel the world.

I go on trips I would have dreamed of. I get to spend so much more time with my family, and I don't feel disgusting when I'm at work or when I'm filming. I'm surrounded with men which give me compliments, and it gives me a massive confidence boost. So there's no set answer of what makes me happy.

There's no part of my job I don't really enjoy. Yes, it can become tiring, and it can be hard work at times, but no one becomes successful or lives a really happy life without facing some challenges. Something I've often wondered about with anyone and only fans is you could presumably have landed a rich husband. If you had set that as your object, you're like, I want to live a luxurious life.

Fair enough. You could have made that your goal to be the most successful goal bigger in the world, and you would have achieved all of that, the travel, the living somewhere lovely, all of this, without the sex side. I see them as more of a sex worker than me, because they're using their sex appeal. They're using sex to pleasure their partner.

Their partner is then going to fund their lifestyle. Their partner is then going to pay for holidays, fancy clothes. They're using sex, just like I am. However, I'm not afraid to admit, I use sex to get what I want.

Whereas those people become very snobby, very uptight, they look down on most people, yeah, they're still using their holes to pay their bills. It's just someone else who's doing it, but I'm independent. So you're like the more honest, more authentic version? For sure, like, there's nothing I lie about.

There's nothing I, you know, people call me a slut, slag, whatever, and I accept that. People call me a sex worker because I am wise. If I was to say, look, you've married your husband, purely for his money, in return you give him sex, they'd like no, I'm not a sex worker. If they stop giving him sex, he's going to leave him elsewhere.

But they can't, they need his money. So it's also the vulnerability, like you, I mean, I think at this point you've earned so much money, you're set up for life, I would guess. Whereas I suppose a woman with a rich husband at any moment, he could just pull the rug out. Go on, contract.

Yeah, they've got a longer shift than I have. But I could stop, they can't. Do you think you ever will stop? Possibly, but I don't have a plan anymore.

And for most people that sounds really stressful. But I used to have the most structured life, I knew exactly what are we doing on a Tuesday, midday, where are we getting lunch from? And now I don't have a plan. Because sometimes when you have a plan, you become so fixated on the future, what one year looks like, what two years, five years down the line looks like.

And then you dismiss everyday happiness. You become so fixated on what the future looks like, you forget to live your life and live in this moment in time. So I can't say, oh, it's going to be five years or ten years, because it might be in one year. I no longer enjoy it, so I'll stop.

So there's no set plan. And that's okay. I much prefer my life now, even though I don't know what or where I'm going to be tomorrow, let alone five years. And you can't always say, like, when you were young, you didn't enjoy going to the park.

And then when you were a bit older, you might enjoy some other interests. And then you get caught your birdwatcher. Like, it always varies. I can't say what's going to make me happy now is going to make me happy in ten years.

Do you think it'd be difficult for you to stop, given that you've attached so much of your notoriety and sense of identity to this thing, that if you've made a big song and dance about this is what I want to do, that if you no longer want to do it, there is going to be this social consistency bias, this momentum that's behind you, where you go, fuck, like, every person that said, she's not built for it, or this isn't going to be right, I'm going to have to now do this U-turn, whether it is self-generated or externally imposed. Does that make sense? That you have this sense of obligation to what you promised in the past about what you wanted right now? I imagine that even you would struggle.

There's going to be a sense of, fuck, I've got this weird obligation, identity obligation that I used to have. I completely understand where you're coming from, but no, because I don't care. I don't really get peer pressured into doing anything. If I think something, I'll do it.

And if I don't want to do something, I'm very stubborn and I won't do it. So, and I've always said, I might not do it in ten years. I might do it in ten years. It depends if it makes me happy or not.

And even if I sat here saying, I'm definitely doing this in ten years, and if in five years, I've changed my mind, that's fine, because I'm in control, and the big difference between me and other sex workers is I own some of my limits, I own some of my body and what I can take, what I can't take. So I'm never left distressed. I'm never left thinking, that's too much me to handle, because I sort of know what I can and can't do. Have you ever hit your limit?

Not yet. Right. I've been very close to it. I did a really big scene in America.

So I'd always done an opposite of 1,000 in January, and then I did one in the US in like March or April with 50 porn stars. And their penises are a lot bigger than the average person, the way they have sex, the way it's incredibly rough at times. And that was hard, and I went into it quite naive. I was thinking, well, I've done 1,000, what's 50?

But that 50 was really hard. How's that? Just very intense. It was rough.

There were times where I could not see at all. My eyes were completely filled with fluids. And yeah, there were some positions which were just like, no, I need to switch this up. It's actually feeling a bit painful.

But that was fine as long as I'm able to say, hey, I need to switch this position up. You can be having sex with one person sometimes and you think, okay, no, my legs have been injured, I need to switch this. But you have to speak up. You can't sort of sit there and go through something painful and then blame everyone else for you being in pain.

Because if you don't tell someone, it hurts, then how they're going to know? You say a bit painful. I mean, I think most women are like bowled over at the thought of how painful it would be. Yeah.

Do you think that you're unusual? Like not wanting to get into... Enough of it. Yeah, or if it's something painful.

Do you have like more physical endurance, do you think? No, I've always said I've been very athletic. I've always been quite fit and healthy. But no, when I first started, I didn't really understand what turned me on and what I enjoy a lot more.

Like when I'm enjoying it, I find I'm able to have sex a lot rougher. So now if I need to take more breaks, I don't feel panicked to sort of know what I'm... I don't ever think, oh, I need to know what I'm doing right now. If I think, you know what, actually, can I have someone to lick me out five minutes before we go again?

I'll happily speak up and say that. So I do think I have a good level of endurance. How about emotional endurance? Because another thing that a lot of women will think is like, frankly, a lot of these guys are gross.

Like I've seen videos of your cues and events and they can be old, they can be fat, but probably some of them smell, I'm guessing. Honestly, everyone says this, but in terms of their smell, like yeah, some of them are skinny, some are fat, that's normal. In terms of smell, genuinely, they never smell. I think it's because they're so nervous.

They know they're coming to me purely for sex. So they have showers just for a cane, they freshen up just for a minute. So in terms of smell, no. But even in terms of body shapes, I used to say, oh, fat people are lazy.

Like, they actually irritate me. But then, when I became a sex worker, I was about to speak to these men a lot more. Yeah, some of them are fat and I'd speak to them. I realised they're not necessarily fat all the time because they're lazy.

Their life is so busy. They've got children now, they're trying to pay bills, they're trying to keep on top of things and they can no longer prioritise clean eating all the time in the gym. So I don't even judge the fat ones anymore. But I used to.

But you don't get any sense of physically recoiling? Like, I don't fancy this man. You never get that? Well, most of them have a blue ski mask on.

So in terms of face-wise, no. Yeah. I think if I really found someone unattractive, the part I struggle with most is the kissing. Because to me, that's very...

I don't know, you connect a lot when you kiss someone. But no, I don't always even see their face. I know this is going to report to a lot of people, but I love the fact it's always a rotation. I don't even always know if I've had sex with someone.

I don't always know who's inside of me. But no, I don't get repulsed. I sort of see everyone as there for a reason. I don't know what's happening behind their closed doors and I'm there purely to give them a good experience and that's all I sort of focus on.

Some of them I also find more attractive than others. I think, Liddy, are your heart? And then the ones I'm like, oh, I wouldn't date you. But even if you walk past on an attractive in the street, that's not what's going to make you come.

It's the way they are, their technique. And I can remember when I was a full-service worker, one of my clients is a bit bigger. I didn't find him attractive. If anything, he repulsed me a little bit.

He made me orgasm. And I was like, oh God, should I be disgusted in myself that this guy that I don't find attractive has just made me come. And I realised it's not to do with their looks, it's their technique and how they treat me in the bedroom. So you can sleep with someone really attractive and they're terrible in bed.

So you do have a threshold. Sometimes you will find men slightly repulsive at least, but it's not so high a threshold that basically everyone... Obviously, I look at different people and think you're more attractive than the other person. I've felt your body shape to the one.

Everyone's got preferences and I know I have. But I never look at someone and think, I don't want you to hit me. Interesting. I remember Rachel Moran, like old, young, fat, whatever.

And she uses that as a thought experiment for women because overwhelmingly they respond like, ugh. And what's unusual about you is you don't respond to them. Yeah. I think the thing was smelly.

And I sort of like that really get me. Sometimes I just think I'm going to have a shower. But because they don't smell, that's my biggest thing. I think it's my social is going to be in my mouth and I'm licking them.

But in terms of looks, I really don't judge them. I'm probably used to. But have you trained yourself out with it? Not trained myself.

I spoke to them for years now and hours on an end. Like, if someone's got bad skin, it's not helpful all the time. Genuinely, not even an inch and they're massive and I can barely find it. But I think, you know what?

You've come to the event. Like, this might really boost your confidence. I don't know. You might be really stressing outside of this.

You might be having a bad life and there's probably a reason for why you're so fat. But I just want to give you a good, you know. It's pretty philanthropic in that way. What do you think sex is for?

Do you think of it as something? Is it sacred, relational, recreational, nothing? Is it the same as walking? It's a hobby.

It's fun. And there's not really much to it before I was thinking about it. Before, I used to have a really low body count prior to being a sex worker. I couldn't imagine having sex with someone unless I was dating them or unless I imagined, you know, I wasn't having sex on a first date.

Now it's within seconds. But to me now, sex is just a, it doesn't have to mean something. I can still enjoy it. It's an orgasm.

And it's as simple as that. Before, how old were you when you became a sex worker? 24, I'm doing two years ago. And that's straight into any fans?

Yeah, well, I did cam in for a couple of weeks. Maybe for like two to four weeks I did cam in and that really boosted my confidence. And then I set up any fans. So before then, you said you had a low body count, you wouldn't do like gangbangers off camera.

No, that's not your main thing. Yeah, so prior to that, I was married in a long-term relationship. Yeah. And so like, where's this come from?

Where's this massive change in your social preferences? To start with money. Yeah, I didn't want to go back to work. I used to work in recruitment, long hours, restricted annual leave and I lived the same life as everybody else and then they didn't complain about it.

So you worked at Poundland when you were young? Yes, I did. That was quite bad, to be honest. I come up with someone pissing a potty and gave it to me.

Well, both the fact that it's called Poundland and they pissing a potty, that was quite pressing, I guess the rest of your life. Yeah, to be honest, I should use that. So yeah, I used to be a waitress, I was a dance teacher, I worked at Poundland, I never did anything for a bit of money and I never really cared what job I did. Like, I worked at Poundstretcher because that job paid more than all the other shops at the retail park.

Other people wanted a job at McDonald's but my job paid nearly £2 extra an hour. So I've always been more bothered about what life I can create outside of work as opposed to being bothered by to wear Poundstretcher outfit. But yeah, when I first started, it was money and I wanted flexibility in my life because I knew going back into recruitment went rush hour traffic, sitting there for 40 hours a week if not longer and only having Saturday and Sunday to myself and then Sundays tend to be a food shop, cooking for the week and your whole day's taken up before you know it. So money and freedom was why I started.

So you hadn't previously been sexually adventurous? No, like sex three times a week. With your husband? Mm-hmm, yeah.

How old were you when you lost pregnancy? 13. So that's quite young. Young but boys are very grown up to my age so if I saw a 13 year old now some of them are like oh my god I can't be able to have sex at that age but I was very mature when I was 13.

In terms of the group sex events that you're known for now, why did you start doing that? Was it because it turns you on or was it because it was like a niche in the market? It happened by accident to be honest the first one. Well I don't just trip into you know and end up in a gangbang but I started off doing things like freshers and spring break and I was at spring break in March last year and loads of them had been saying at the hotel I was like I haven't had a chance to speak with you yet you've not replied to my message and I was leaving the following day so I just shared my hotel room number I was like look I'm going to be here I leave at 10 a.m.

tomorrow just queue up bring your friends like the doors will be open and that just naturally ended up in a gangbang it got to like 3, 4 a.m. I was really tired and I was like look whoever's left in the queue look just come on at once because like I don't want to leave you waiting and that was the first time I did a gangbang and I realised it wasn't what I thought it wasn't dirty it wasn't disgusting these guys were having a laugh they were high-fiving each other it was white it was more funny than it was sexy to be honest some of them couldn't get hard some of them was finished in a straight way and I realised I loved the environment it created it wasn't dirty I know people imagine it that way but it was really just a fun experience for me and those involved If you haven't been feeling as sharp or energised as you'd like getting your blood work done is the best place to start which is why I partnered with Function they run lab tests twice a year that monitor over a hundred biomarkers they've got a team of expert physicians that take the data put it in a simple dashboard and give you actionable insights and recommendations to improve your health and lifespan they track everything from your heart health your hormone levels your thyroid function and nutrient deficiencies they even screen for 50 types of cancer at stage one which is five times more data than you get from an annual physical and getting your blood work done and drawn and analyzed like this would usually cost thousands but with function it is only $499 and right now they're getting a thousand modernism listeners another $100 off bringing it down to $399 so just go to the link in the description below or head to functionhealth.com slash modernism that's functionhealth.com slash modernism how did you end up chasing the records so doing 100 doing a thousand um so after that spring break there's a journalist who said like what's next like what are you gonna do after this because each time i was doing these like spring break or freshers my numbers was going up and he's like well why don't you do the world record so it's actually a journalist joe who sort of mentioned it and i didn't think too much about it yeah that sounds brilliant but i knew i wasn't big enough at the time to get 900 a thousand people to be curious if it's one thing you're going to do it the organization behind it is probably the biggest headache and the difficult part um so i was in the back of my mind from march and as the months went on i continued to grow my social media got bigger i was building a bigger name for myself so then that's why i did in january if you've got any questions i put it on and on i'm happy watching this go back and forth it's girl and girl for now um so i guess doing the big events and like shocking people and one of the things that you do in terms of your social media strategy is you troll everyone right like particularly yeah you're often addressing women and the wives and girlfriends of these men and really focused like trying to get a rise out of people trying to be controversial yeah and one of the things again that i find sort of as a woman i find surprising and having spoken to other women they also find it surprising is that you don't seem to mind women hating you it doesn't upset you you don't feel that need to be liked that most women do feel it's another way in which like you've got the physical endurance you've got the low threshold for disgust you've got and you've got this appetite for not notoriety yeah i don't hate women at all i know it can come across like i hate women that's honestly not the case at all um but i say many times like women very easy to wind up at times and they're the ones that spend more time on tiktok than their husbands so if i'm using a platform like tiktok i'm going to sometimes make my tiktoks for women because i know they're gonna complain about it they're gonna sit and watch it and their husband's then gonna hear it so my videos and i do the tiktoks you know it's aimed at women it's aimed because my husband's gonna hear about this one way or another and the things i say it can come across very harsh i do believe everything i say but i will word it in a very i guess rude way at times because tiktok you've got about 10 seconds for someone's rolls off that if not shorter so i'm gonna say it in the most brutal way possible to get them watching the rest of that video do you have any female friends yes i do okay um i know that can seem shocking or people say what would you speak with their husband or what do your friends think about what you say um but they hear like the long-winded explanation of why i said something or like one of the big ones is you know about your husband's cheating and it was never your husband is cheating on you it's just if you're not having sex with him he is probably going elsewhere and i will happily speak with him but it's never to say look i'm going to turn up your house and drag your husband out of your home would you feel a particular way if you found out that one of the people in the ski mass had been the husband of one of your friends um yeah i would obviously feel bad because i feel bad that their relationship broke down a lot sooner before than what they would have realized for him to have been at one of my events it clearly doesn't have a good communication with his wife you see it's like a symptom of the relationship in crisis rather than you causing crisis you will have some idiots and some men that will just cheat because they cheated and they've got two brain cells if that a lot of the time if someone cheats there's a reason there's a lack of communication a lack of connection with that partner it's i'm not the one to blame i've never forced them to be there or i've just put the message out and said hey would you like to have sex with me no one is forced no one is you know bribed to be there not even paid um if a wife is having an effect to accept their husband it sounds rude but it's they need to look in the mirror they need to look at the communication that happened with their partner i'm sorry they're in a relationship that's not happy but i'm not the one that's ruined that marriage that's true but we would you would be able to say a person who's a recurring alcoholic or a person who just has a tendency toward addiction it's smarter for that person to not be around alcohol all the time and if there was some imposition by the government that put alcohol on every street corner this person would find it more difficult to avoid that it's far easier to avoid temptation than it is to i'd like to keep us away from it than it is to stop feeling it altogether and the increased prevalence of this the increased advertising of this may cause people to think oh what's wrong with that like it's more it's more easily available i can put the steam mask on no one's gonna find out for sure it definitely is easy um i'll let you share the vocation if you just turn up it'd honestly be easier for them to cheat on an eye out cheat when they're at work because they know when they turn up yes they have a blue steam mask on but they've got to bring their idea they've got to sign a consent form they've got to take their mask off to fill in the consent form and fill in the form so it's it'd be much easier for them to cheat elsewhere and i think it's a lot more hurt i'm not sure it would be easy for them to cheat elsewhere i think uh what's referred to in the industry as a clean kill which is one that has no digital footprint of one cheating on your partner um is hard to be give me a phone call meet up at the end of the night or there's the room key to the hotel that you've used or concerns about cctv i i get the sense that a lot of guys would see ski mask on briefly take it off fill the thing and put it back on and get to do this as repercussion a repercussion free way to be able to cheat on their partner yeah and i do get that but for them to have been there there's a reason if someone was really happy in their marriage they won't they won't have turned up but i'm gonna sort of contrary themselves a little bit because i think sometimes people cheating it's not because they don't know their wife or their kids but their wife no longer has a high sex drive or they've had children they feel a bit body conscious and no longer want to have sex and that's okay but your husband probably doesn't feel the same your husband's probably still wanting sex and he doesn't want to sometimes hurt you by saying no longer feels like he's being pleasured so he goes elsewhere to have sex meaningful sex he's just having it he's not cheating he's just well he is it's not an affair there's no text there's no emotional connection literally coming to someone who's offering a cell phone and then going back to you um i think there's time people cheat and it's done not to hurt the wife but if anything the opposite just to protect them and want to keep them happy in their own bubble and not ever sort of fresh them and saying okay i want sex from you but i've heard you said you can't condemn porn stars with your right hand while masturbating with your left hand what do you mean that if someone was to tweet and say this is horrendous how dare she do that whilst also being a user of porn that's like a little bit of hypocrisy is that fair criticism to try and square that circle in a way i think i think what you do bonnie not just in terms of the porn but also in attitude towards money and towards independence and like you and actually egalitarianism i mean when you talk about like i'll take any man i don't judge whatever there's something very um progressive about that politically right like super super egalitarian what you do is you actually take a lot of these um ideas that are present in the culture to their logical conclusion yeah you say well okay you tell me the culture says that it's fine to be sexually liberated and to um prioritize being an entrepreneur and to um to not worry about all the social hang-ups and you basically take that to the logical conclusion you do and i think what i think what happens a lot one of the reasons i think you sort of rile people up is a lot of people who have a vague sense that that stuff is all good and fine and like they're kind of okay with sexual freedom and they're kind of okay with capitalism and egalitarianism they see that taking to an extreme and they go oh hang on i don't like that so you're saying that yeah bonnie is like the reductio ad absurdum of the sexual revolution yeah you hold up a mirror to the culture which is is it fair to say that bonnie is just a natural end result of modern feminism yeah as well as other things too but yeah definitely i mean definitely the idea of prioritizing sexual liberation above all else and not seeing that i mean what you said about sex being a hobby i think that is an important idea the only reason we think that now is because we have um reliable contraception obviously before that you couldn't think of sex in that way because especially women exactly yeah it's because the risk is so high for them um but since the sexual revolution we've come to think i mean in a slightly schizophrenic way i think that people actually often think contradictory things but they often say oh yeah whatever sex like as long as everyone's consenting that's fine and then they see you you're doing exactly that everyone in your queues is consenting you're consenting and they don't like it and one of the reasons i think you're such a notorious figure is because you you actually invite people to look at those ideas and think oh wait maybe actually if i don't like what bonnie blue is doing do i actually support sexual freedom yeah well you sort of say one thing and then contradict themselves in two seconds yeah and i would say not everyone should do what i do not everyone enjoy it and that's why like i just think especially as women if you want to do something do it as long as it's before and legal and everyone's consenting do it don't care about what people are going to say don't care about the backlash like care about the backlash if you're going to struggle dealing with it but if something makes you happy especially as a woman like we're not restricted anymore we can be independent well a lot of people say it should be legal yeah then they would try and stop you for sure everyone says i'm you know i groom them to have sex with me um and there's a massive argument because i don't pay the students i have sex with and they say that's completely wrong but then if i'd paid them they're suddenly a sex worker and then these bribery involved so it's i honestly can't win and i think that's why i just don't care so much as well because if i do one thing it's wrong if i do the other it's also wrong and one of the main hate comments i get out is oh if this was a guy they'd be arrested if this was a guy they'd be in prison and very legal stuff for sure but teen category has always been the most searched category in adult content yeah but the only difference is it's always been the males have been older so all i've done is switch it and now suddenly these women that don't care about these men saying they hate me because they're so concerned that if this was a guy that'd be arrested and they think things should be equal is it just look in the mirror google go online you'll notice it's always schoolgirls as well i was young for halloween we dressed up for sex schoolgirls like schoolgirl has always been a thing and i'm not saying it's right or wrong but don't cry about it being a schoolboy if you've never had an issue with a schoolgirl you do of course do stuff with schoolgirls as well yeah i don't have an issue with it i never said i have um and people had a massive role when i did the schoolgirl as well yeah before it was an issue because it's a schoolboy so you know what i'll take both that's a good way to ensure that equality is reached across the sexes is it empowering that bonnie can do this right to say it's empowering i mean i think that the whole i don't like the word empowering i think the whole idea of it i mean i think i think actually you demonstrate the problems with that with that whole idea that you you clearly are being empowered certainly financially yeah and in terms of independence and all the stuff we talked about um but and like and i believe you when you say that this is good for you and you're happy and you know and then you're happy i mean it is collateral damage in terms of the words of girlfriends for sure i was going to ask have there been people you know who say lost jobs or got in trouble in some way from having come to one of your events because often they're not wearing masks for sure uh no and a lot of people say when he's at you know they're 18 or they don't know what they're doing or they're going to make a mistake or they're going to rest when they apply for a job i've never known in a job interview they say hey is this your penis is this you know would you enter in bonnie blue on this day like they're not going to see that maybe if you put your face next to mine they might come up in question but a lot of people are filming pov especially students and most of them don't show their face and even the ones that are like oh i am happy to show my face if anything i'll ask them not to because i want them to feel really confident i want them to feel really confident in the situation um but no one's going to give you a job interview get up the sex tape and then go that's your penis and the benefit of it is i see with so many people even if they need sex with me they're not going to pinpoint your sex tape or they're never going to best prove it to you because i always make sure unless they really really want the face out there i keep everything really confidential so it's plausible that the amount of direct collateral damage that you're doing is quite low i mean there usually will be some relationships that have failed and so on but you would say that that's because they've already failed and this was just yeah it's not a face failed um some relationships don't work because as you grow older you become different people you have different interests different hobbies like it's not because a relationship is failed just sometimes you're no longer meant to be with that person sure so but the direct harm that you're causing to yourself to other people is is probably not that high so then which which means that anyone who um wants to condemn you on the basis of you harming people the struggles a little bit it's actually quite hard to point to someone who like what do you think the damage is where is the damage coming into contact with the world in your opinion so i think the damage is cultural and social i think it's i think the damage is bigger and kind of harder to pin down it's not like you can just point to this person if the only thing you think that is important is consent then you can't really point to a single person and say yeah you know but that's not my view of it my view of it is that there's like a um you're contributing to a culture that regards sex as a meaningless hobby and i think that that's bad in a broader way i think you can have both though because i feel like i have very meaningful sex and then i can have some sex on camera as well more when it's a boy girl scene because you're a lot more intimate and you have a great connection with them but each one of my sex dates or sex events are very different there's a different meaning and a different purpose of it but yeah with the damage as of course it's always fun women speaking saying how hurt they are even though i've never touched them i've never done anything yet the people that come to my events i'm nothing but grateful polite and say they've had a good experience and a lot of these women that say you know i'm damaging you slip two videos back and they give me death threats they say i want to turn up one of bonnie blues events and you're black and blue i want to make sure she leaves in a coffin and i'm like you're the one in the wrong i've never hurt anybody and i've never given anyone a death threat or so i'm going to beat you or leave you black and blue i think from what louise is saying it is very difficult to pinpoint okay if we work very hard on consent and assume that everyone is allowed to take radical responsibility including you for what's going on yeah everybody is consenting unless there's some situation where a person is not fully of their mind or whatever the term would be over the age of consent it's difficult to point to the first way consequence of this but maybe downstream there's something that is moving the culture in a kind of direction so it's an interesting question and that is can you imagine a world in which anything happened that would make you question what you're doing are there any sort of consequences or repercussions that you can think of that would cause you to second guess i think if the people i was having sex with was coming to me with issues or saying it's ruined my life or i'm really hurt by this i regret it it's a big mistake and so i just see the same people at the time of these events so if the hate switch from the women that don't know me and are poorly educated switch to the men that was at my events when i speak to online i really reconsider the way i do things and the way i approach things um but even with the whole barely legal things in the students like the students themselves find it really funny like they're not they're not walking around the street saying oh my god give me an 18 year old they're walking around i'm barely legal and it's they find it funny because they're not stupid i mean you've got some 18 years that are 18 year olds are but you can be stupid at any age they see how wound up because they're much better at technology and tick-tock than i am especially their parents so they see the backlash and you say barely legal causes and they find it funny like i'll be walking down the street sometimes like i'm barely legal i'm a virgin can i get you know i skip the queue um so the people that say i'm very damaging towards 18 year old and stuff they're actually more intelligent than these people making tick-tocks so they know it's i'm not walking down the street and i'm grabbing them out of school or universities before we continue you are probably not eating enough fruit and vegetables and you know it this is going to help good news ag1 just released the next gen formula it is a more advanced clinically backed version of the product that i've been drinking every day for years so you still get the same one scoop ritual but now with an even more thoughtful formulation flavor and four clinical trials behind it ag1 has been evolving since 2010 continuously improving alongside the latest research in ag1 next gen is the result clinically shown to helpful common nutrient gaps and support good health even in people who already eat well in one study they've boosted healthy bacteria in the gut by 10 times and if you're still unsure they've got a 90 day money back guarantee so you can buy it and try it for three months and if you don't like it they'll give you money back right now you can get a year's free supply between d3 k2 and 5 free ag1 travel packs plus the 90 day money back guarantee by going to the link in the description below by heading to drinkag1.com slash monomism that's drinkag1.com slash monomism so a concrete example of yeah not causing this individual harm but causing a wider kind of harm is when you digit the thousand in was it january it happened at the same time and obviously caused a lot of media response at the same time that grooming gangs were back in the news yeah husband must talk about it primarily and then there was a you know the wrangling over where there should be an inquiry and all this kind of stuff and some people pointed out at the time it was not deliberate on your part yeah but what it contributed to you being in the news was this sense that british women are sluts and that obviously fed into this whole discussion around grooming gangs and the feeling that um the girls have been asking for it well you know we have the sexually liberated culture you know that's obviously the really um the really unsypathetic view that's taken towards fit into these gangs do you feel like you end up feeding into that view of what british women are like you know i don't know how many women are in the uk but there's a lot more than one i'm one person out of me you have this massive international reputation for sure but i also get told all the time it's not normal so i'm not there's no part of me that believes i'm to blame if uk people being called sluts because i'm one person i said this is what i consent to this what i enjoy every single one is so different i even do hundreds of tiktoks saying how lazy women are and how much they don't want your blow jobs so i highlight the fact they're not sluts they're quite the opposite i suppose that's true yeah yeah but yeah it is i've been asked multiple times if i'm a cover-up because the same time i've done something something big's gone in the news unfortunately it's been sort of pushed down because my press has you know been spoke about more and that's terrible and there's much more concerning things in the world to be highlighted talking about you're saying that your sex events are false flags to try and drown out some more apparently i've been asked about the spy before as well um but yeah like it's sometimes the time is bad and i'm you know it's really unfortunate that sometimes my stories have been spoken about more than things that are honestly dangerous and damaging on society so your concern is there's a kind of propagandistic effect of the type of pornography coming out of the uk that might make it more attractive for foreign people to come here or for people who don't fully understand the culture to have in a sense they haven't been able to do what you've said which is i keep on being told that i'm not normal something tells me that it isn't the people who don't have an in-depth understanding of what the culture is because the only way they can say that's not normal is to have something to frame it against this is normal this is not normal this is an outlier but if all you see is the tiny tip of the iceberg when you're not delving that deep into culture you just see what is the biggest story which happens to be you and if it's consistently to be honest you and lily phillips like you guys in the same part of the country as well yeah it's funny coincidence is that is that genuine concern i'm not the only person to notice that the nature of porn is it's mostly produced in the west and it mostly features white women and also asian women that's overwhelmingly and i think that one of the things that does end up happening is men in other cultures watch porn everyone has a smartphone everyone is here and they get the impression that this is what white women are like and i mean i know just personally having traveled to parts of the world where you get the most like pornographic style of sexual harassment is what i've noticed yeah i remember going to morocco with female friends and we got so much like lesbian porn related comments from the men and i just thought you're watching western porn aren't you and in your head this is what white women are like i got an eagle sponsor yeah it ends up being like racist propaganda inadvertently no one's designing it that way but is how it functions in terms of how it affects men's views of what women are like yeah i think it's definitely a bigger picture at times and i don't know i'm not that knowledgeable i'm not that educated on stuff that's going off in the world or things which you know people can escalate and blame me for like i really am a very simple girl it's i have sex i enjoy it i film it i post it and i live my life and i say all the time i'm very selfish i'm not too concerned about what's going off in the world and that can be very bad but i also think even if i was to sit here and really care i'm not going to make a difference um presumably you wouldn't want what you're doing to be criminalized because that's that's what you could say you're just you're just you're just so fine but maybe there's a responsibility on governments to say actually this is this is so bad for like the social fabric that we need to ban only fans ban the events i mean i've obviously you've commented with only fans about some of your events yeah if you're just to ban it they're going to go to the websites sex porn has always been there so we're very naive to think if we banned only fans and vansly that these issues are going to stop you're just going to go to other platforms which don't have as many restrictions at least with the platforms like vansly you have to obey that many consent forms it's a very strict process if you're going to go to these websites and the dark web and all these other places you don't know what age that person is you don't know about the consent situation or you know if someone's forced them to be there but with the other platforms it is not always safe but especially from my side it's a very safe environment although one of the things we've learned from the um on unharms act coming in recently is actually that now men in britain have to show have to jump this kind of id hurdle to get access to the porn yeah sorry which systems now have to jump this id hurdle it means that actually the traffic is off yeah so you have to show your driving license or something to that and obviously a lot of people don't want to give to say porn is scary yeah but what it's led to is actually a massive drop in uh porn consumption yeah 47% on porn yeah so that does actually show that this is elastic it's not like men are always going to seek out like a fixed quantity of porn yeah it's going to cause how much people access it yeah if it's harder to access porn people will watch less of it so i think the idea that like this is this is i agree to some extent this is an invisibility and even you know roman war mural speech pornography and you know this is like a human eternal thing but that doesn't mean that what you do is always going to happen whenever you know like it is possible for governments to crap down on this yeah it is but i think i mean sex workers have helped reduce the rate rates they have they you know i know people always say that it's kind of like i guess it could intuitively make sense but it does assume that the reason the only reason men records is sexual frustration no there's obviously so many reasons and you know i'm not intelligent enough to name every single one but having sex workers and having content available does help um a lot of a lot of women make it a lot safer but with like porn rates drop in yeah there might be 20% that no longer watch porn because they don't have the idea and they don't want the inconvenience of it and it's a bit of a headache but there's a massive percentage of that they go into all the websites and the platforms and it goes back to those platforms aren't as controlled and they're not as safe um and not just that like education and sex should be a much bigger thing um across all ages i think that the idea that so another example i think which challenges this idea which is which is a common idea that men are always going to do this they're always going to find a way if they don't find it the safe way they'll find the unsafe way is um surveys done i can't think of numbers off my head but surveys done of countries which have different models in relation to like street prostitution um so some countries that have the nordic model which criminalizes the punters and some countries which have decriminalized or legalized systems can often have like neighboring countries very similar cultures can have really similar dissimilar rates of men who say that they've bought sex like a big gap in proportion of men who say that they've bought sex and in cultures where it's completely legalized normalized it's common for say men to go to a brothel for sag do yeah whereas in countries where that's not legal men just stop doing that it doesn't mean they completely stop watching porn they completely stop buying sex but there is a culture change people do start thinking but it's is there's a correlation or do you know if there's a correlation in those countries between sexual assault not to my knowledge i mean this is a hard thing to study and this is and i've always said because i've always said actually the strongest argument against my position which people occasionally put to me is if you could absolutely prove that the existence of porn reduce rape for me that would be the most compelling reason to not get them born i think the complete opposite these guys you know i don't know but i'm just thinking of a scenario but if a guy sat there and he feels really horny and you know he's a bit angry and he's worked up because he has access on his phone he's able to release himself a lot of guys after they release they're like you know what they don't have the urge if they get themselves worked up they're not able to access content it's difficult to say where that might need to the problem is that sometimes sometimes men who might start off having relatively normal sexual desires or maybe they're a little bit weird or aggressive or whatever but they're within the normal bounds what porn can do because obviously porn offers every possible imaginable variety of fetish everything is that they can start using the weirdest stuff or maybe the more violent stuff or whatever and they develop taste for it and they develop taste for it and they develop taste for it and it's like they double down their taste this is mary's law of fat entropy right and anecdotally it's hard thing to study but anecdotally men like these primarily men do talk about this that they might have had a little bit of an interest in something but then the porn basically allows them to like massively massively grow that interest and little neural highways become motorways and this is and then all of a sudden it's the only thing that gets them off and they get more extreme and to some extent the porn sites feed on that because they want the parated distribution guys they want the guys who are power users exactly um and i mean that's not i guess quite as true with your stuff because it's not like well i mean is it fetish or do you think it's like some of it is massive events but in terms of like the sex world they sometimes watch and it's like solo content i'm like oh my god that's crazy i just want this massive build up their ass i'm like that's insane whereas they watch me doing a gangbang like no that's insane so everyone's got different things which they class as a fetish or extreme um for me i guess it is somewhat of a fetish like gangbangs isn't for everyone um but it's not a fetish compared to like some of the stuff i see online or some of the bdsm or some of the things which are being crazy um but some people are probably normal you do lean towards rough sex and a sort of pro choking at least for yourself yeah louise i know that you've done work in the past around a particular loophole with regards to bdsm choking killings yes i used to work for a campaign group um i'm only not working for it now because we like succeeded in our goal which is to change the law but there was a period where um it was increasingly common for women to get killed by men and then the men would claim that they consented to whatever had caused their death so to say that oh i accidentally strangled her to death but do you consent um and this was becoming more and more common as a defense tactic and so men were often getting really short manslaughter sentences when actually like it could very well have been that actually this was a straightforward domestic violence yeah no way of knowing that this woman had consented to anything i think the police though it's not i want to say that's purely porn's fault i say a lot of that's the police like they wouldn't just be if it's a massive domestic violence i know some guys could just lose and kill their partners but if that was the case it was probably a build-up there's probably additional bruises text messages phone calls other things which would say if it wasn't purely because they'd watch porn yeah i think domestic violence is a lot of other reasons and a lot more realistic yeah and i think often there were failures happening at every stage and often different police or judges or juries were quite credulous and they didn't take um seriously the authentic hypothesis for sure but i think it was a clear example it is still in other countries um thankfully since the law change we actually haven't really had i don't think we've had any men i don't think it's defense tactic but um it was evidence i think of when rough sex and choking is normalized all of a sudden you have juries who a generation ago would never have known anything about this it would have been really weird outside of their realm of experience thing suddenly thinking oh yeah that's plausible like i know that i know that i know that all the all the two girls are being choked nowadays so i guess it makes sense that this would be the case and i think that's a good example of how you can look at this just on an individual level and say well i'm consenting i'm consenting yeah that's fine but it can scale to having really destructive i do think trying to as i'm saying in the middle here and hearing in a world that personalizes radical responsibility personal accountability freedom all that stuff uh it is tough to come up with a first order pushback to everyone's consenting this is all allowed that does seem to me to hold quite a bit of water which is what happens when you start to move culture what happens when guys start to be called bonnie blue likes it and she's the most famous porn star in the uk and then you get to a situation where i do imagine the girls could be traumatized by guys dudes are nervous in the bedroom and they want to try and perform in a way that they think is going to make them attractive and masculine and i'm going to do the thing you go it shouldn't have been that like it wasn't that thing that wasn't the thing you should have been doing and that influence that sexual culture influence the reason we don't tend to talk about it is that we don't try on sexual tactics the same way as we see somebody in a cool pair of cargo pants we that has only been a very recent invention that you would even be able to you know maybe your uncle that was kind of a little bit like chill would have said oh you know you can do this in the bedroom and that's it maybe your older brother perhaps i guess but even that's a bit weird so this world of um sex technique influence and trends i have to assume kind of really didn't exist previously and you are you are going to be contributing to that see i disagree i think the reason is like the porn i make they the content is just on camera when i'm talking about being choked i always say hey can you choke me like this actually can you do it a bit looser and i've said from the start some of these guys when i started doing 18 year old content would come to me and do just that they'd want to perform they'd want to go really rough and they'd slap and choke them about well hold on a second you're actually hurting me now i'm confident enough to speak up to say hey just how guys try and perform and really impress the girls sometimes a lot of girls will just take it because they want to see them they want to impress the guys while they can take it and there's so many anecdotal examples i've heard of girls who don't have your confidence and don't feel able to be assertive in that way and they'll have some guy choke them and they find it terrifying to even if you don't really know they're like is this like emergency yeah they think oh i'm gonna go along with it because it looks sexy exactly yeah i always say like in porn that's never discussed i do think that should change it should be look in this video you know you like watch americans got talent and brits got talent like don't find this at home or this is done by an expert porn hub or other platforms should say look within this content they're extreme the token is done in a safe environment and it's content you want the jackass this program yeah but how many teenage boys did try what was on jackass right like everybody in my school yeah despite saying this was done by a trained professional yeah at least you you sort of know because some of these people that watch porn they're not intelligent or they don't know or they've gone from sex education at school which middle-aged teacher not been lazy anything i'm not listening to anything you say you might have a quick chat with your parents maybe uncle or brother has mentioned a few techniques that's it you feel as a guy okay i just need to try and give this crazy performance i'm gonna do it rough slapping hair pulling and give her this crazy sex and she probably doesn't like it she's gonna be too nervous to say but in the sex i have with these 18 year olds or sometimes older because they're not very experienced i explain to them how i enjoy to be choked how long to choke me for no move your hand down a little bit and that's all left in i don't edit that out i don't crop it you see that in the video and this posting content isn't weird it's sexy it's sexy it's sexy to say to a guy i really like when you do this or can you do this or you know stick another finger in whereas most porn it looks like this most perfect art performance and when i used to do porn i used to do that i used to edit out all the bits where i've had to stop and get some extra lube or i'd switch positions because i thought it needed to look perfect not like everyone else's porn and then i realized when i started with 18 how damaging that is even in terms of the fact they're only set with body shapes they don't have perfect abs and big dicks because that's what's you know in the porn industry then when i realized how i guess lack of information is shared with these people i'm gonna keep all that in it's not unsexy to not know how to pull hair or how to choke properly or the fact you can't get hard or the fact you finish really quickly but it's made to seem unattractive because it's always cropped out and we don't talk about it would you ban that type of porn the really fake style no but it should just come with a disclaimer it's like a movie if you wanted to learn how to drive a car you don't watch fast and furious to learn yeah and it's also not damaging to watch that who's gonna make it have a disclaimer like do you think the porn industry should be regulated do you think a lot of it is there's a lot of content i would like to do and i can't do because they're saying it doesn't agree i i'd love to be what i wanted to be tied up in a glass box and yes and i love the idea i was consenting to it everyone that would turn up would have understood my restrictions my yeses my noes and that's another big thing as well yes and no is discussed before you start a professional porn shoot you go through you have a sheet and it has every single thing you can imagine like fingering hair pulling slapping and you go through that that's never shown you only see the end result you see the perfect edited part whereas with my content it's very different it's very very consensual and yes he is choking but it spoke about during it um yeah i think porn should be have restrictions and it should be told hey this was my professional consent was discussed off camera so then when these young guys are watching it and they go to have sex with another 18 year old girl that's probably not that confident and going to speak up in the back of their heads they sort of know the porn they watched need to discuss content and need to discuss each other's limits description below heading to livemomentus.com slash modern wisdom and using the code modern wisdom at checkout that's l-i-v-e-m-o-m-e-n-t-o-u-s.com slash modern wisdom and modern wisdom at checkout you admit that you're you're an unusual you're an unusual person you're an unusual woman like a whole bunch of ways in which your your preferences your personalities is like you're like a far right tail on so many different traits yeah um is it really true to say therefore that when men watch your content they're learning about how they should have sex with other women not always no my porn really bears i've sort of sort of the cliche about sex with my personal trainer and all of a trip and suddenly I'm having sex I still do some of the cliche porn but a lot of my content isn't that but I'm not also saying oh come on watch me for a sex education lesson and I wouldn't be the right person at this moment in time to educate properly on sex because I could say something which contradicts that but I do think more things especially porn or whether that's at school or university should be discussed about consent sex people's different limits things they enjoy because everyone gets embarrassed about the conversation your parents might say look don't have sex don't have to wear a condom and that's not as far as it goes but very naive to think one that I'm having sex before 18 that we're not watching stuff online and they don't know what they're doing so teacher nearly two thirds of 64% of men under age 25 support making it harder to access pornography online up to 51% in 2013 if young people are becoming more conservative about sex and pornography how come Bonnie is still breaking records well I guess even though you earn so much money like you've still got your audience if not all men by any means right but you've got a fairly small number of men who are supporting you I also sense there's this move against from the younger men there's this move and women as well against porn and I suspect that that comes from the fact that these are say zoomers who've grown up on the internet what does zoomers mean like all this century they were brought up on the internet they were exposed to porn really young ages it's often like average age is 11 for boys something like that and so they're often being exposed to really extreme stuff and it's damaged them psychologically and sexually in that they I mean like what we were talking about earlier with sometimes weird tastes escalating but also often struggling with erectile dysfunction when you're actually in the room like if you've trained yourself on porn and on your own hand when you're then in the room with a real woman you might not be able to get it up or having unrealistic expectations just not being able to find normal women as attractive because you can't come to a woman like you and I think that a lot of men have just learnt from their own personal experience and just purely selfishly regardless of whether or not porn is their trade they've learnt that actually it's bad for them and it's probably bad for everyone I mean when it comes to porn addiction for instance I wouldn't wish you I'm the worst enemy it's terrible I think even with porn like you mentioned then they think unrealistic quality shapes because they're looking at these women like no we do it for a job well it's not a job in most people's eyes but they also shouldn't do that though because that's true because probably the porn they're watching their penis is probably half the size of that and all the other chiseled six pack so yeah it's terrible when some guys no longer get hard because they've watched so much porn or they have unrealistic expectations of women and they shouldn't because one they don't most probably don't perform come really quickly or maybe you don't come at all it should just be more of a conversation and less to vote so people become less embarrassed by talking about it but should people watch more porn because there's quite a bit of a population that don't watch porn at all probably more dairy porn you shouldn't always just watch one type of porn that's not going to be the issue though if you're talking about people who are being educated and getting used to sex in general a power user or even a normal user of porn I'm not convinced they need a dairy diet what we're talking about is like one big group of people who don't use porn at all and then this other group of people who some of whom continue to use it healthily and then some of whom sort of tumble down you talk about it whole you can say that with anything alcohol, chocolate you can't summarise what one person can do how to easily have a couple of drinks and stop another person can't do that they're going to finish the whole bar well gambling might be a good comparison because obviously gambling is legal in this country but we know that there are it hasn't always been there's been periods where it's been banned and there are certain things which are banned like the really sort of predatory end of the gambling industry and we know that things like the apps can be really addictive and people ruin their lives gambling like they'll lose a family home their marriages will break down everything and so I certainly think there should be regulation I think most people do if you're I guess in this comparison you're like the gambling boss but if I had to write the same to me like look I've spent so much money this month I can't afford to pay my mortgage I can't afford the food shop 100% I'm like look let's just chat stop spending so much money I clearly want you to have to pay your bills and do your food shop so yeah when I'm speaking to guys online and they'd you know just sometimes expose personal information with me I would never want to put them in a difficult or vulnerable situation but I can't be responsible have you got on that have you got an opinion on the financial domination industry are you familiar with this? yes like girls will like a guy will pay for a girl's life and then like completely rings their bank account yeah and it goes even more extreme than that that the end of this is typically guys will get their paycheck and then immediately send all of it to a girl who drip feeds money back to him as he begs for his own money back oh yeah now it's very odd is this consent? is this an addiction?

like you are transferring this to them a lot of the time the girls that are doing this will have compromising material I know a friend that was at university with me who was doing this with a guy and she had videos of him coming in a cheeseburger and then eating it and he was married he was begging her to have one pound so that he could put some fuel in the car and she says that's 50p get the bus to work and his bank account has nothing and his wife is completely unaware this is happening again with that consenting adults this seems to be that isn't something I enjoy I wouldn't like that I'm not doing this for power you know what's interesting that a lot of what you talked about in the very beginning your justification was around finances so we may have managed to find something close to the bullseye of where your sort of sensitivity sits which is don't let you go poor Chris you may play with my private parts or my bank account this is one people to be happy but it's weird I say that because that guy clearly enjoys that and I have got some friends that will absolutely rinse their eyes for money and their sort of argument which is true if it wasn't then it would be someone else and at least then they know they're going to do it in a very controlled situation but for me I just want to feel comfortable with that and everyone is really different but for me I just it stressed me out and it wouldn't sit comfortably with me those things will I'll take virginities I'll take 18 year olds and those girls will probably say god that's disgusting I wouldn't feel comfortable with that but for me I'd be stressed I'd be going to sleep thinking oh my god what if the wife needs to buy some emergency shoes what do you think that Bonnie has lost by doing what she does has she lost anything you've lost some future choices obviously you've gained a lot of choices in terms of your finances but there are now all sorts of things like if you couldn't become a teacher would just be one example no it might not be irritating that would be what salary of 25k I'm guessing you wouldn't necessarily want to I've not thought about it really deeply it's a question I've been asked before I would like children in the future I think yes it's going to be difficult and horrible for them for sure at the moment but they're also going to have the most beautiful life and I know money doesn't buy happiness but it will buy me so much time with them I know for most of my friends that still work their children go to childcare full time they miss their first steps their first words they can't be there for all their school holidays they only go on one quality holiday year and for some people that's fine but when I'm lucky enough to have children I'll be able to take them around the world they'll be able to you can be a stay-at-home man yeah I'd be more than happy to be a stay-at-home man like if you don't have money you just go into a job but if you actually had all the money you'd be able to take a lot longer I think in choosing what you want to do or what you want to achieve in your life and I'll be able to offer my children that but of course it's going to come with backlash and comments but whether you're too pretty you're ugly, skinny, fat your mum might drive a weird car kids get bullied on so I think it'd be sure for sure oh my god your mum's bonnie going to 7,000 people but it's yeah they will get picked on what do you reckon the percentage likelihood of you having a family in future I'd say quite high I'd say very likely before I was very sick on having children and having a family because I I'm happy but I'm not in love with him or I live this life and it looks perfect but it's not for me and yeah it took me a while to realise that but I've realised it that's the main thing do you think you'd have taken the same path in life if you'd had kids with your ex-husband? I probably would have done some sort of sex work later on but probably not when the children were still young and I probably would have lived off my husband's wage for a few years would have gone to go back to work but you know what I don't want to I want flexibility because that's the other thing this sex work offers you don't have to be very public with it like when I did camera work I could have done that and no one would have known or you don't even have to show your face or you could wear a mask like sex work isn't always extreme there's a lot of people that do sex work alongside a normal job and no one ever knows it's just a bit of extra cash so they can go on nice holidays yeah I probably would have always done it because it gave me instant flexibility and I know you could do multiple other things and get that but it's also not very realistic what's the biggest downside from you being famous? I've heard you talk about not really going out alone anymore for instance yeah I have security with that I think I got sort of not twisted but people thought it was because people are horrible to me or it's you know I can't go out without someone shouting something negative it's the complete opposite it's because I can't walk anywhere without people swarming for photos people coming up saying hi and that's men and women families the women are probably I say the worst they're the ones that are coming up non-stop I even have mums with children under the age of 18 saying can you grab a photo for my son or can we grab a family photo with you what do the women say that aren't the mums with kids under 18? a lot screaming like oh my god I can't believe it's you oh I love your content I love your videos I've seen you online it's honestly I've received near enough zero hate in person surprising please?

I think it's not surprising in person because I think in general people most people don't want to be negative to someone in the flesh like I'm not saying that they're talking positively about me but even some of these families and some of these families I literally stay online saying yeah you stay at home you don't do anything you complain and then sometimes I was at the airport recently and I saw a family and it looked like the fact family I mean this is me judging that I stayed online I thought oh here we go and it's quite a out you know speaking very loud I thought they're going to say something and it's like oh my god can my husband grab a photo with you I'll find you so funny and it just makes me realise like I hate you get online I'm probably the most one of the most hated people in the UK if not you know across all countries at times but in person I am very much loved so the security isn't because I can't leave the house so yeah Ed it's just because I need to be able to get somewhere and I get completely swamped for photos you've probably heard me talk about Eleanor before frankly that's because I'm dependent on it and it's how I've snorted every morning for the last three years Eleanor is a tasty electrolyte drink mixed with everything you need and nothing that you don't each grab and go stick pack contains a signed back to electrolyte ratio sodium potassium and magnesium with no sugar no colouring no artificial ingredients or any other junk it plays a critical role in reducing muscle cramps and fatigue while optimising brain health regulating appetite and curving cravings the orange flavour in a cold glass of water is like a sweet salty orangey nectar and I genuinely feel the difference versus when I've started it and when I've used it and when I haven't anyway they've got no questions that's free from policy with an unlimited duration so you can buy it and try it as long as you want and if you don't like it for any reason they will give you your money back and you don't even need to return the box that's how confident they are that you'll love it plus they're for free shipping in the US and right now you can get a free sample pack of elements of the most popular flavours with your first purchase by going to the link in the description below heading to drinklmt.com slash monomism that's drinklmt.com slash monomism Chris and I were talking earlier about that that we're both very like we don't like negative feedback we're quite sensitive and for me I find this your ability to just withstand that level of to say something like I'm probably the most hated woman in Britain and be quite chill about it I find almost as confusing as your ability to not be repulsed by a bunch of powerful men I don't know where it's come from I don't know You always like that? No I'd say I've not always cared what people thought but I've never been this much oblivious well not oblivious but so much I don't care I don't know where it's come from and my sister she's really sensitive one of the hate comments the other day was like oh that bed sheet I did like a day in the live vlog and I was at home they said oh her bedding was from Shein and it made her cry she's very sensitive she really likes that bedding but yeah I'm just not bothered I think it's because I know I'm happy I know when I sort of work where I speak with I'm happy so I'm like why am I bothered about hate comments and one of the biggest comments I get is oh I'm actually 47 and I think how am I bothered about you judging my age or recently went wow that I'm apparently transgender and all these hate comments I just completely made up and I find it more amusing than I do hurtful do you ever get I know I personally the criticisms I dislike the most are the criticisms that I think are probably true when they're ridiculous I think or whatever but when they're a bit close to the bone it's like endlessly naked the film well like the top of us I wear today was strapless but I have eczema sometimes in my arms I was like oh I don't fancy wearing that today it's like I clearly do care but not to the point where I used to like when I first moved to Australia I actually wore like oversized t-shirts I didn't always want to go to the beach I felt quite insecure and I was self-bothered yet when I started this job and when I did that no one cared what I looked like no one was giving me hate no one was saying anything yet when I started this job even though I started receiving hundreds and hundreds of hate comments I became more confident than ever because the positive for me outweighed every negative comment you are aware that that's very non-typical for humans that we remember the criticisms and forget the compliments we have a negativity bias and it seems like you managed to do some sort of Gryffindor-only Gryffindor which makes it stronger thing and yeah like Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu what for most people would be a catastrophic amount of criticism but do you think you get more hate than love? Online yes for sure in person completely different it depends what platform you go on like my Twitter is very positive but if you go on like TikTok especially on my backup accounts my main accounts is very positive but you've got my additional accounts they're very negative so it really depends what you're sort of clicking on but there's not many things I want people to take away from me but it's just don't care don't live your life by judgment and it's like when you went to school I don't know if you ever fell out with your friends or you're like oh my god my friend is at school and you sat by myself at lunch and your parents are like look just don't care what people think or you just sit at school it doesn't matter and then you come away from school and you realise how silly it was to a certain degree for caring about what people thought about you at school and if they thought you was popular or not in the popular group yet even though you realise looking back that was silly to care then you then suddenly care about what your colleagues think about you at work and then when you leave that job you realise how insignificant to a certain degree their opinion was but then you keep continuing to stress about your current surroundings but I don't care and that is generally I think one of the best things about me is I am sensitive but I'm not a sensitive point of I'm aware that I'm never going to look back on my life and go I wish I cared less about what people thought about me I'm already in that mindset and for most people they can't do that they're worried about what the colleagues think or what the family think or what someone you went to school with is going to say about their new car or their job they're in I mean it's such a natural human instinct though to care about your peer group and about I mean something that I've often said is that there are various ways in which men and women are different from one another psychologically and personality and even though they're obviously individual outliers there are quite the average differences and so for instance women are less keen on casual sex than men are and that means that a culture of casual sex is on balance going to be worse for women and better for men I think because men focus so much on them a lot of time in bed you know if it's one night stand they're just thinking I think because men physically come as well it's also focused on them and a lot of women especially myself started i didn't feel confident to speak on to actually can you do it a bit softer can you you know yeah to the left it's also partly that actually most women do have most women do not fancy i really do not fancy the vast majority of men yeah like they do not want to have sex with the vast majority of men their threshold is really high in terms of who they're willing to to sit with um and you're of course not like that as we discussed but i've always said like i don't think that our current sexual culture is on balance very good for women in general but that i i believe that there surely is like some unicorn woman out there who is perfectly suited to the sex industry and i think maybe you're it like you've got every trait necessary in order to withstand it and do well by it um i guess the problem is not everyone you have to spend a long time talking to you to realize that's true and to realize how unusual you are and i feel like other sex workers try and like either do the same or think god for me to be successful sex work i need to do that right who i think we all agree is he's suffering from this actually um you're a real one in maybe seven million kind of kind of like the lebron james of sociosexuality and uh discuss sensitive yeah but i mean you do get quite a lot of backlash from people in the porn industry right oh yeah most of them hate me yeah why do they hate you one i've made their fake fan content so irrelevant um they used to think oh faking i've had sex with one stranger was gonna be the biggest thing of their career and i've sort of just highlighted one it was faking second of all it's i'll do a thousand should i buy your one but they just say i'm some of us that's from a great culture um that it's dangerous it's making their subscribers ask for extreme content and i get that and i do feel sorry for them but if things are changing or your subscribers are no longer interesting you that's not my fault that's that's a you problem you can't blame me for everything and it is difficult if you say sex is a resource to be traded like any other and then capitalist market dynamics get applied to that which you have stepped into it is very difficult to say i should not be subject to the same supply demand and competition curves that every other industry is if you accept that going in now i think the problem is that people get this sort of crossover and this is something mary's written about which is the world is at a weird intersection at the moment that sex is uh simultaneously completely meaningless and can be done casually and doesn't have anything uh beyond the physical action attached to you can sleep and not catch feels and also if incorrectly can be the single most traumatic event of your life that never changes that you're never able to recover from and swearing the circle is difficult i think this is where it kind of meets when you actually see like the raw economics of this that you think well if consenting uh workers within that industry are having to up their consensual work ethic work rate uh level of work experiment it would be like having a salesperson who is particularly unbelievable at sales with one specific tactic but this tactic is very taxing on their body and very few people can go and do it and now everybody else is trying to do the same sales tactic yeah it is difficult to come up with some sort of ethical grounding where you can defend that that isn't permissible within the rules that that system already had does that make sense is that do you agree with that i mean i honestly sort of think that actually as someone who is critical of porn and sexual revolution and everything you're almost doing my job for me because you're highlighting you're taking everything to a logical conclusion and highlighting the fundamental problems of this worldview you're like it's very hard there's a lot of people who say that they are in favor of sexual liberation pornography and so on yeah but they're not in favor of bonnie blue but i do think you can be and then see me as too far like i also think that's fine like i'm not saying you can agree with porn that's when you see me like you can completely agree with porn and then look at me and think that's too far and that's okay everyone's got their own opinions it's just when people try to give me facts i'm like you're not speaking facts or you're speaking opinion um but yeah there's many many issues with the sort of industry and a lot of content creators say um you know they're just no longer relevant and that's and that's my fault it's not i get social media banned all the time i get new restrictions i have new issues and probably more issues than any of the sex work because i'm so big and so outspoken i get bands that other content creators don't get just because they don't have the techniques i do um but i just and i change and that's what you should be doing with any job or any situation you're in if you're hitting restrictions work around it or you change your technique are you worried about bonnie's mother i would definitely worry if you were still doing it yeah i mean certainly like bringing punters into home i'm guessing you probably wouldn't do that even now i never film at home i always film at a venue um and i haven't got home before but i no longer enjoy that i know i know what my home is you know i want to keep my home my home and i want to be separate from that not i've ever needed that separation but i'd always like the fact if i needed it i'm not somewhere i think you know i'll just be going on the sofa it's a separate place and i can if i need a break i've got the opportunity to have that you could probably go quite a long way and sort of transform your identity to protect the kids from the backlash at school um different i mean bonnie blue obviously isn't your name right um but um how are you going to talk to them how would you talk to them about how you've got this amazing house you know no idea but we're very early age i know that'd be very young age for them because whatever age you think your kids start swearing or they start saying different things at playgrounds or start watching content it's probably a lot younger so it will really depend on deciding at that moment in time that might go even even younger um i don't know how the conversation would go to be honest i don't know what would be you know depends how long if i'm no longer in the industry how much is still out there how much is still being spoken about how much i would have to disclose um i definitely would want to disclose everything i'd never want anyone telling my children or surprising them with what i do i want them to hear from me and that's not how i deal with my family at the moment anything i plan to do or anything i do they hear it from me even with i did a documentary recently and it showed a lot of sex it showed um a lot of the gangbangs a lot of things i get up to and i actually took my family to the screening and some of the journalists was disgusted that my i'd taken my family there and it was hard to watch it with them for sure it was did you know it's gonna be as explicit as it was um i watched her and i knew there's gonna be sex in there i did not know it's gonna be as explicit as it was um and i was thinking during it i was sat next to my dad my grandma was there my mom my sister her boyfriend and it was time to look at the screen i had my head out what was that sensation that came up for you it was me showing my pussy saying i've just been railed by x amount of people no that's what was on the screen what was the sensation that came up for you when you were sat in the seat um i just felt a bit sick and it wasn't because of what i'd done it was just uh this is the first time my family have really been exposed to this right now and they're sat front row in like the cinema room and they've got journalists behind them i'm trying i'm gonna just keep my sort of foot on this point for a second yeah beyond feeling sick what was the emotion that came up like what did you what was the feeling what was the sense beyond physically how it manifested in the body i was hoping that my dad was okay like i think again that's not an emotion yeah i apart from literally feeling sick and being like oh my gosh i hope my dad's okay that was all that's going through my mind and what i was feeling what were you worried he might feel um i don't know like potentially be disgusted potentially think is it too much yeah so you've got journalists looking at them so was that feeling behind yeah it was it was hard and i would just like i always want to protect my dad my dad is super sweet and i don't wrap them in the book at all they're fully aware of what i'm doing to the extreme and they're fully supportive um but yeah during the whole documentary i'm sort of like oh i felt so nervous i just want to say to them like how do you feel are you okay like okay so you did feel nervous there and the reason the reason i say it is i want my family to be proud of me and i was worried them seeing that might take that taking that feeling away um but there's other parts of the documentary my mom and dad my grandmother all laughing they're finding it funny and they're happy i mean the parts they just looked away but i'm really glad they watched it because their friends are going to have watched it everyone in that town would have watched it and if anything wants to say anything to them they're not going to be shocked or surprised because they've watched it and they know what to expect and that's how i guess i would treat my children is just always being very transparent with them and sort of not hiding things from them because i know they'll find out how do you feel about your daughter doing what you do for anything um if i had a daughter i would explain look i'm very different most people are going to be very hurt by this and not going to have to deal with this mentally physically but if they wanted to do that i would not disown them i wouldn't be like no don't do it that's the main reason i got into it originally was money um yes that has shifted but they would have so much money and so much opportunity to do anything they wanted um and not many people are like me so i can't imagine my daughter would want to do it just because you know not many people do you're the lebron james appalling yeah um but if they could do that as long as they understood it's not because i think sometimes i make it look very easy i make it look like it's a breeze in the parking because for me that is i think that's what can be damaging on society or it can be hard for people online because they see me go oh i earn loads of money and i'm really happy and i love my life most people try and copy it they're traumatized the families i'm upset um so yeah it's just making them aware it's i do say it's easy i think my dad worked in hardywood two jobs he worked night shifts he had to work in terrible weather conditions i'm like that's hard work me lying on my back ain't that hard so it's not hard but it is hard i was just thinking of that scene in black adder do you remember black adder goes the second series of tudor one where it starts off with a man you're saying oh daughter we're so poor blah blah blah she says yes brother i'm gonna go to london i'm gonna make work she says no i want you to go on the game just make a living lying on your back it's not easier um what would you think about your son um having sex with a future bonnie blue age 18 um what would you think about your son um having sex with a future bonnie blue age 18 oh yeah no i'd be recommending it you'd be recommending it 100% 18 year olds when they lose virginity it's an unsafe environment they probably been drinking it they're under the influence they haven't discussed consent they haven't discussed their choking their hair plan and all of that and that can be damaging for him the next day it could be the girl can sponsor or it can just be damaging for them because they're made to feel insecure or they're laughed out for whatever reason them being sent to a sex worker is a very safe controlled environment um but would you worry about your son because you said you're an outlier would you worry about your son contributing to the trauma of that woman because most sex workers are not like you i probably want to know who they're going to because you can also go to a sex worker that's just an escort and they don't do the crazy things i do um or i don't mean every single person is different and i'd want to i'd want to help them um because i want them to go into someone that absolutely hates it and is doing it purely for money and they feel traumatized from it so i'd want to help the guy make sure they go to a good sex worker what would you say if your children are by sex yeah um say they became uh religious and they decided that actually they wanted to wait until marriage to lose their virginity and do it the traditional way what would you say to that choice that's fine like i think it's sometimes it's lovely when people are really religious um i don't have an issue with that i don't i personally want to be religious um but yeah if they wanted to they would sometimes i'm burning in this building right now um but it's yeah if they became religious i mean i can't imagine my children would um but if that's fine i think those that do i think oh my god if that sex you thought about for about i don't know 25 years it'd be terrible it isn't gonna be good uh i remember you i think you quoted an article saying i've never confirmed i was pregnant because i would never ever lie about pregnancy bonnie added saying that doing so would be a set too far yeah there doesn't seem to be many lines where you would draw and say this is a set too far with uh your self-promotion with the things that you would do the things that you would say you've already mentioned i curate my tiktok 10 second hooks to be as annoying to women as possible what is it about pregnancy that's sufficiently sacred that i would never ever lie about it doing so would be a step too far i tried for many well about a year and a half with my partner to get pregnant and i was unsuccessful and i found out if i wanted to conceive it had to be through ibf um which was really hard especially at the time i would not have the money to go through ibf but for you know a couple years and when your friends around you're having children and everyone's born pregnancy naturally it was very hurtful to continue to try and even buy all the ovulation tests to help my chances it was really expensive i couldn't afford to keep to keep doing it um so yeah the press in a nutshell i think this was like shortly after the thousand was there was rumors saying i was pregnant it started on tiktok then it was on twitter and instagram well yeah the rumors had started about me on tiktok and all these social media platforms and then journalists started reaching out saying we want to we want you to comment on your pregnancy and we just ignored it for a couple of days thinking we're not commenting i'm not pregnant i don't know where it's coming from and it just continued to escalate so then i decided okay let's play into this and we'll use the extra income we get from more press and more views to put towards somebody's ibf journey so the only thing i did do was upload a photo on my instagram story of a pickle put in chocolate and sprinkles and put cravings and then the following day it was oh bonnie confirmed she's pregnant oh bonnie's comments on the fact she's pregnant and i hadn't like there was already 10 20 30 articles saying i was pregnant even though i hadn't commented i hadn't said anything and that's obviously hurtful like i was fine with it but i knew i couldn't get pregnant i knew i couldn't fall pregnant naturally so that obviously wasn't very nice and i think like 40 hours after that i did a youtube video and just said look hey i'm not pregnant i uploaded one video of a pickle the journalist seems to think it's okay to make stories off about a woman in one's body without understanding my situation yeah for sure i can't get pregnant and i'm going to use this money and i have paid for two people's ibf journeys um since then do you think i remember thinking when you did a thousand yeah that the most reliable contraception on the market which is the marine id it has a one in a thousand failure rate right um but i guess if you know that actually you can't concede naturally yeah it doesn't cross your mind even though it's not impossible yeah for sure it's not impossible um but yeah the chances would be less than one in a thousand then yeah it'd be beyond some meter to stop for pregnant so yeah that's where the whole the whole pregnancy thing came from um and that's what i said would be too far and even that i got backbashed when i i then went and did a bit of a press you know i went to daily mail and a few other articles um for the places and just did some general press i think i was telling spring break shortly after that and i then they asked me about the pregnancy and i said why do you think it was okay to upload a photo of a pickle even though the daily mail had already uploaded an article prior to that saying i was pregnant and i was like so it's okay for you to say it and apparently confirm i'm pregnant but then when i uploaded a photo of a pickle i'm the one in the wrong and then mentioned about the ibf journey and the woman was like we should have done that without ever uploading a photo of a pickle and i said many times you don't have to be charitable if i want to burn the money on clothes and whatever i want i will but if i think i became very aware of no matter what good i do it will always be like even that was what a very negative life i'm interested in that particular area of sensitivity yeah and you've had a varying levels of strength of accusation that you're a psychopath or um on other corners of x that you're possessed by demons yeah um would you say the reason i asked and kept on pushing about what did you feel was to try and get that embodied sense from you as somebody who doesn't seem to have much disgust sensitivity very yeah the tail end lebron james of sociosexuality on the far side what how would people describe you as a kid were you an emotional girl not emotional in terms of crying loathe and like really upset but i've always been really happy like and i've recently which has been wrong for me to say oh i'm not emotional but it's because every time i say i'm not emotional i'm referring to me crying and being upset and it's because i live a very easy happy life so it's very easy for me to sit here and say i'm not emotional but emotional being happy and smiling and laughing that's also i am emotional like my i've had the best sort of two weeks of my life and i continue to have the best days i've ever experienced and i'm very happy and very smiley but a lot of the time that's not shown in like podcasts and interviews because i'm usually being interrogated i'm being told i'm disgusting i'm having to defend myself so of course i'm not going to be sat there smiling and laughing but if you was to watch me you know when i'm at spring break and i'm meeting people i'm nothing but smiling and happy so people like to pick and choose which parts they analyze me or some of them will say i blinked after i said certain words that that means x y z or i looked a certain way and it's like you know i've probably said something i got twitchy or i got bored like people think too much into things um but i am an emotional person but not in terms of crying the reason i ask is i wonder how formative those 18 months of trying to get pregnant were and it does seem like a bit of an inflection point in your life and maybe this is just part of a marriage that wasn't right and a bunch of things coalesced at the same time maybe you did get some sort of realization maybe this was one realization that caused a bunch of different torpedoes to be fired at different areas if you're like i'm gonna do in terms of career i'm gonna do in terms of future i'm gonna see myself as my level of sexual openness by my current partner um all of that together plus i would never ever like a pregnancy to me showed potentially uh laid an explanation that hmm how much of this is the last radius of fuck i really wanted kids and it turned out i couldn't get them and i'm now coping yeah i completely see that but i if i wanted to be with my ex i could have been if i then wanted to get pay for ibf i'm in the situation where i could pay for myself now so if it was i was still doing this i'm trying to pay for ibf or i'm wanting my ex back i completely agree but i couldn't get the force quicker um and i'm not in a situation where i don't want children i was so fixated back then so that's actually missing happiness in my life i think i'm to a certain degree grateful i didn't fall pregnant because my life would have been very different and as much as children a lot of happiness for me i was more doing it because all my friends was i just got married everyone's asking me a lot including my family like when you when you can have children when you start family for yourself and i think i just started saying okay i don't feel overly happy what's missing of children really it was having freedom flexibility traveling and doing the things i wanted to do but i kept thinking i was too old to do or oh i passed that now or i can't just go traveling around the world and go on crazy holidays i've not got the money or i've not got the time for it i presume that um this period time before you started coming yes do you think then going into because you talked about actually before then you had a low body count yeah you were pretty like sexually conservative um do you think that learning about your infertility changed your whole sexual sex made it more like a hobby because obviously that is the way humans come into the world to do sex it has it's in we were all conceived in that way for sure apart from ivf you know that's a recent thing um so there is an obviously meaningful consequential thing built into it but if it can't lead to conception do you think that's fed into your feeling that it's just a hobby doesn't matter commoditize it whatever uh no completely get where you're coming from but i was never having sex only on my ovulation days i was only having sex on the days i thought i was going to conceive so sex even when i you know wasn't trying to get pregnant was a hobby with my partner i did it just for pleasure um so no if i was only having sex prior to that around ovulation then yeah i completely agree but i don't think as much that's hurtful it's a very difficult time when i try to get pregnant i don't think it's had any knock-on effect i mean to a certain degree it has just made me more sensitive towards the subject which is why i'm so strong i wouldn't lie on it um and it's made me want to help people so i think it's horrible that so many people try and some people they've got six kids they couldn't give a shit they're not eating pop play there you know they're trumps and they can still pop out kids and there's some people that would offer the most beautiful family and beautiful homes and they can't unfortunately have children so i guess maybe more sensitive on the subject but it's not left me than thinking oh i'll do sex as a hobby or change my opinion on sex i don't think too deeply on some things i take things as they are obviously like this okay great well i'm going to deal with it and then i move on i don't drag emotions um ultimate bayesian update think of that like just permanently upgrading your worldview what somebody that's dissecting the micro expressions of a porn star non-typical why do you think people are fascinated by the bonnie blue question i think it's because of your outlier status you're so unusual i mean i guess in both senses that you are but we're almost an outcast as well like you've chosen this you've chosen to be the most hated woman in britain in your words yeah and yeah i mean you said you said a few times i think you're actually really intelligent i am but on things that like you want me on a pop quiz you want i don't i'm not photography and all of that like and there's loads of things about the world i probably should know but i have no interest in but very quick yeah like i'm if you question me on sex an 18 year old the reason i'm expert yeah i am like it's because that's what i enjoy that's what i do each day but even with that these loads i don't know i don't tend to know but i get asked sometimes really intelligent questions i think don't understand half the words you just use i don't know what's going off but like i'm never claiming i know everything like i simply don't yeah one of the things i've noticed in how you talk about people is that you'll be you'll be so um non-judgmental about say men being fat or all this kind of physical stuff etc um one group though that you are consistently judgmental towards are lazy people yeah people who don't work benefits around us you know that kind of and they're the ones that complain about life the most and i think you lazy shit get off and do something about it like unless your arms and legs are chopped off you can probably do something about it and that goes for people or other people as well if you're complaining about something they're the ones that blame everyone else and they're unhappy they're miserable and they take zero responsibility for it like i take responsibility for my actions and i have taken my life in my control and even if i'm talking about to family or friends and they complain about something i'm like do something about it don't keep coming to me for the same issues because you're gonna have a very blunt answer you're a very agency person how do you think what does that mean in that you you set your mind to something you just made it happen for sure and a lot of people aren't like that and i wonder i mean because so many people are interested in you because they see you strange and yeah that you confuse them do you feel the other way like do you ever struggle to emphasize with why say some women really don't want to have sex in the way that you do or some people are really upset when they're christian or do you find more normal people confusing because i'm actually so normal sorry sorry bonnie i really need to stop you down that's not true like aside from you know everything yeah my day-to-day life you would be amazed like if you knew me say if you didn't have a phone you can go on the internet you didn't know i did what i did and you just knew me as a person you would never adult me as a person does this because i am surprisingly normal i post them just to go i'm i just very simple with what i enjoy i'm not high maintenance um i spend a lot on fashion like i really enjoy um so the passion side of things memories like i would sell every single life i have to make memories like i recently went to moldy to snorke and it was a beautiful experience like i'd always use memories over anything materialistic um but it's hard to earn free so much money to be honest so yeah i remember like uh chelsea ferguson do you remember her i recognize the name of vip she was the girl who founded that which was an early british competitor to only fans oh okay chelsea fergo this i'm digging myself a little bit here but she was sort of the geordie shaw world of this she was huge on snapchat and she was like a proto bonnie blue yeah in one way i'll never forget that she did a stunt that was her outside of her brand new four-bed new build house in darlington somewhere northeast of the uk and there was a brand new range a brand new lambo the front of the number plates on both sides were chelsea fergo either some custom number plate and it said uh all this from showing pictures of my fanny help me put petrol in my lambo at my me.vip slash chelsea fergo so the rage bait drive clicks through flash on the lifestyle that's in some ways more materialistic i don't know if i've ever seen you flex well i mean i've got a Ferrari i posted that because it's quite fun like the number plate sells porn the seats say bonnie blue uh the whole thing is low yeah it's like a work thing like if i get spotted around you get photos you load it online um the first thing i asked was like does it fit through my donald's drive today since they've said no i've never driven it i've got no interest in it i posted that but aside from that i don't like share a lot of the things i sort of spend my money on i want to post a bit more about fashion and clothes i know if i was watching that there's a girl i've been treated on oh how much i'll go and drop on a shopping trip about 50k and i don't think anything of it's just a normal shopping trip whereas that would be a house deposit plus more when i was younger what do you reckon you'll net this year a lot of money very comfortable living can you get anywhere close in the range um no but i live a nice life as well i'll say um i've heard you say that um i think this is in the channel four dogs so it was a while ago that you're currently you're at the time earning a million a month and your goal was around five million a month yeah and i thought listen to that once you're at a million a month like what else what you can spend the most money on it was just a numbers game at that point for sure like i've always said i want to hit five and i think i will hit five in a month at some point but if it came at a cost of my happiness i'd stop because my life ever since i started earning a certain bracket didn't really change um maybe when i went from you know 50k a month to 400 there's a bit difference and 400 to the million probably a bit but even that it wasn't much for change um i don't have like yes i have expensive taste i do burn through money quite quickly but the main thing i want is just happiness and memories and yes you do need money for some memories like some of the trips i went on was you know we hide the boat for the day and i didn't think anything i'll be able to say yeah of course i'll hide the boat i don't want other people on the boat i want it to myself and things like that is what i'm beyond grateful for i'm like if i was around a tough day i'd look back at things like that and think how lucky am i and lucky is not always the best word because no one's given me this um but i do just feel every day so lucky and so grateful to have the people around me i do in the life i live um i don't know i just to most people i live the most just in life but to me i couldn't wish for a more beautiful life beautiful life louise to each other i suppose i believe you when you say that it's just it's just a wider effect for sure i think it helps i'm selfish because i don't care you know if someone's saying you're having a really bad knockoff effect you've ruined my marriage um i'd be putting on my flippers and snork on thinking that's your problem you never get that like tummy broiling hands shaking like feeling you never feel um nervous in conflicts or those kind of physical sensations it's always to say something about you you've ruined my life bonnie no i'd say like i don't understand why maybe um but you said you're like a top surgeon yeah it'd be more like i don't understand why but it's not me i didn't do it the fact i don't know your name shows i didn't ruin your life i didn't there's something there's a lack of i think most things is communication like if i've ruined your marriage there's a lack of communication and i'm not saying that's every case but for most things whether that's friendships your job's not worked your relationship's not worked it's simple it's communication you were about to say can i ask can i ask a basic question why did you choose anybody blue i know yeah i think it's quite nice it's quite traditional um i wish i could tell you're really interesting sorry but i just googled poor names and it's like a porn translator not translator what's the word generator yeah and the word bonnie came up you put so i chose bonnie and then you chose one from the other side and it was blue but i never knew it was going to be like this i thought it'd be a cam girl no one's gonna know about it but i love the name bonnie blue now like it's you know it's quite catchy it's very easy to remember i love the color blue um but bonnie's quite a traditional name um but yeah it was honestly thought within about two minutes if that what do you think about people that call you a victim a victim of what like these videos i see women all the time on tiktok saying oh she was sexually assaulted as a child oh she's been through all this and i think you're you think i'm sick you're sick you just found a photo of me on google from about 10 11 years old and then made up a sex story you've made up that i've been sexually assaulted like how disturbing are you to do that in your spare time and the only tiktok i've seen that's really hurt me was a video got uploaded this woman talking in the background photo of me and my granddad that passed away saying oh he sexually assaulted me as a child and i think why why would you ever look at a photo you've gone out your way to find that and then make up a story and apparently i'm the disturbed one um so yeah it's some negative comments do you get you only that um because that went quite far and it's when i like only just sort of just started and that made me really think well i've really dragged my family through this because i chose to do this but my family didn't what do you believe victimhood status louise no i don't think you're a victim yeah i think that most women in the sex industry are at least to some extent like it's a complicated combination yeah um i do think that you're really unusual and but there is a problem though right that most people don't know that they can't tell that the fact that you it can be very difficult to tell at first glance the difference between say you and phillips yeah and you think one smiles one cries it's both so but sometimes only sometimes only smiles some people can be really good at faking it and some people as well it can be when they're actually in when they're in it they they get through by convincing themselves that it's okay and they will sort of tell themselves a story almost like if you're in an abusive relationship and when you're in it you'll be like oh he loves me it's fine and it's only later when you've left it that you're able to realize quite how horrible it was and that's quite a common story in the sex industry yeah um i mean do you think there are women who aspire to be like you in terms of the wealth in particular women in the sex industry and who are putting themselves through trauma to try and compete with you not realizing that they just don't have what it takes in terms of psychology i mean i've seen it online before people cry and it's been people that have you know been hostilized um all of which then give them credit because you know people see them being vulnerable like oh my god that person's crying or that person's not hostile and then i get the hate because i'm not very natural i know my body limits but i wouldn't necessarily recommend it to loads of people it's you've got to do what's best for you and you've got to focus on happiness because you can have all the money in the world you have the biggest following it's all honestly pointless if you aren't happy um so i don't think you should ever copy anyone else and i think that's how i've been able to stay happy as well because no one's ever done what i've done but they've done it afterwards or tried to but i'm not following anyone but the things i'm even doing this month no one's ever done before so no i'm not looking at this month this month i've just had a bonnie blue bang bus made and i'm starting off at scotland which is at the top of the country i'm working my way down and i'm going to visit loads of universities to the students right so on the road yeah it was really cool it's like a blue of course blue it says bonnie blue on it bonnie blue bang bus in really big writing there any legal ramifications about that no um i mean my family i like to reach limits so i've got to fully understand where it is because everyone wants to arrest me everyone not the police but everyone online is like i phoned the like oh my gosh she slept with a barely legal the second one that's legal so you're an idiot um but yeah i do make sure everything i do is legal because i'd be the first person like i see some of the tiktoks or some of the social media or the oaf girls or fans of girls go to promote their social i think god if i'd done that i've been arrested instantly or i would have my socials taken um i think you get harder time you have more haters because you don't come across as a victim because you never cry that's why i get more hate yeah you don't honor any sympathy sympathy is such a huge driving force uh so much so that you saying i am not a victim victim of what uh has not managed to dispel people calling you a victim yeah uh i think it's a shame because so many people are victims and it's taken away from them like focus on them help them like leave me you know i'm too far gone as some people say but i i'm not a victim of anything i'm in control and that scares people i think a lot of people are desperate to think that you're a victim a lot of women yeah because they are so disturbed at the thought that you actually like it yeah and that is okay but don't make up i'm a victim or don't make up sexual stories from when i was a child like it's fucked up is there anything that you still don't understand about money i think that you're a marvel of science yeah i mean because i'm sure there's something we were talking earlier about this this scan right where you can check you know course levels and all this sort of stuff to um to understand the chemistry of your psychology i mean i would guess i'd love you to do a big five personality test if you've never done one why is that it's like a it's like a gold standard of psychometric testing for personality so it's things like your consciousness i would guess you're really industrious i was gonna say do a do a do a do a do a big five analysis just based on i guess yeah okay so there are five facets obviously yeah maybe um i don't think there's a dimension for loving animals i mean like a high level animal so the five facets are um openness experience i think you're off the charts yeah um conscientious meaning like you're how hard you work like showing up on time being diligent again off the charts extraversion what does that mean you tell me like how do you get exhausted from talking to people all day you just talk all day. No, I get sometimes bored around from the same questions.

I did an interview yesterday and it was the same shit. Oh, your family don't know you, your family this, I'm like, I'm going to be bored of it. I can understand why you think it, but sometimes I get bored around from the same things like, I've loved that these questions are very different. Usually I sound like a robot and it's probably why I've come to switch after as soon as you start the question, usually I wouldn't know the answer.

Yeah. So I think probably you are extroverted, at least quite extroverted. Agreeable, no. I think you're deeply, deeply disagreeable and that's part of the reason why.

Agreeable, this is like how much you worry about other people's feelings, how selfless you are, how much you're willing to put other people for yourself. I think again, we're off the charts in the other direction. And neurotic, you're probably the least neurotic person over this focus. What does that mean?

Like your sensitivity to negative feelings, which you worry about things, how depressed you get. I mean, as you say, you're just happy all the time. And there's one thing, I honestly, I see many, many videos like, she must be so depressed, she must be so unhappy and I'm like, I'm not, I know people think I fake it and I could be lying to you, but I'm not. You're a very good liar yourself.

Given the little logic puzzles that we've stepped through today, on what basis can someone condemn what Bonnie does, given the world they're in? Well, given the world they're in, yeah, I don't think that you can condemn Bonnie Blue if you're generally in favour of sexual liberation and the free market and just letting all this stuff rip as if you can. I think you just have to accept that Bonnie has followed all this stuff through to the logical end point and is winning that game. If you, I mean, it doesn't bother, it doesn't worry me because I've already thought for years and I've always said that actually sexual liberation has some really serious costs as just letting free market rip and so on.

So, yeah, I've really enjoyed talking to you and you're a really likeable person. I like how you don't agree with what I do but you're very open to listening because I've always said you don't have to agree. It's not my job to convince you and I'm not bothered but I always really appreciate when someone can just listen to myself because I'm not just some blonde porn star that's got no brain cells. I'm not overly intelligent but I can explain and the justification will not work because I don't need to justify but I can explain why I do what I do and why.

I believe it's acceptable and why it's not damaging. It's always good to have people that can listen. I'm not saying I'm going to queue and up and I won't enjoy boosting myself just yet but it's nice to have an open conversation. I want to try and finish up by getting you guys to steel man the cases for the other side.

Do you know what that is steel manning? So you know straw man, I take your argument and make the weakest version out of it. Steel manning is taking the other side and making the strongest version. So if you could think of the biggest trade-off or downside of your worldview being successful, if your perspective in lifestyle was more widely adopted, what would be the most negative externalities?

What's the best case that is anti-Bonnie Blue? And I guess you might be able to start and do what is the best case that's pro-Bonnie Blue and also what are the negative externalities of if you were successful with what you wanted to have happen? Yes, if I had my way, I would like to criminalise most of what you do and you wouldn't have all this money, right? So that's obviously a personal cost for you.

I guess also that maybe it is true that for some men, access to porn reduces their sexual aggression towards other women or reduces the chance of them going to bisexual women in prostitution. So I've never really seen that case made strongly but I think I said in the conversation that if that were true that it did actually reduce sexual violence, I would accept it as being the worst of the options, sorry the better or bad options. I think sometimes it's harder because people think it's either going to be A or B. It's not always going to be the case.

Sometimes for one person it works and the other person it doesn't or we try and say okay porn is the better to cancel it but sometimes it's not like everyone tries to be fit in a box and sometimes things are one or the other or sometimes it might depend on what day it is and you don't have to pinpoint yourself to one or the other. What is the best case argument against Bonnie Blue and the world that she wants that you can think of? I mean I'm already in it. I get to do what I want and no one can stop me basically but one of the main things I want is people that do pay for porn, do pay for sex workers or the RQN for people to be more open-minded about and that they're not disgusting, they're not desperate, they're not here to hurt anybody, they are genuinely lovely people so that would be the biggest thing I would love to happen.

No, what would be the case against? Against? Yeah, so Louise's position of anti-porn would criminalise if you were to make the argument for that is there something where you think okay this is the best way that I could justify what Louise is saying can you see the other side? Yeah, I mean I think a lot more restrictions should be added like this was done by a professional either speak to the person it should be like a clause beforehand I think it's hard to bring a lot of porn is very heavily regulated and the amount of consent forms and ID you've got it upload but there's a whole just great education I think you do see that complete wild west porn is bad even if the individual is consenting do you think that there's a cultural harm done if we had to completely let rip watch it at any age watch anything you want do you think that there would be a significant downside from that?

Yeah, I don't think it should be at any age but at the same time people are watching porn a lot younger than 18 and they're also having sex something needs to fill that gap I have got an example that brings this into my area of expertise which is bro science and I'm going to talk about fake natties you know what that is it's not to do with boobs it is guys who are in the fitness industry and have achieved a very admirable physique and claim that they haven't done it without performance enhancing drugs but they have used performance enhancing drugs fake naturals fake natties what the argument against fake natties and specifically the sort of ethical argument is these men are creating an unrealistic expectation of what can be achieved naturally which inevitably means that any guy who tries to do what they do feels inferior they're going to fall short the cost of trying to do what this person has done with PEDs is unattainable therefore saying that you didn't use them is giving them a false sense of hope also if you then come out and say you did use drugs there's often an accusation that this person is now encouraging the use of testosterone because they have an admirable physique in this person the downstream effect of using hormones on yourself as a guy I wonder whether you are kind of not the fake nattie because you're completely open about it but you are the testosterone hyper responder of the sex world which is your results may vary and Bonnie's the most outlier that you're going to have most guys most women would not be able to run the cycle that you have and survive in the same way that you have most girls would not be able to live the life that you do and I think when we're talking about without exaggeration a 1 in 3.5 billion outlier lots of people would ask the question does it make women want to emulate her or warn them off of her behaviour not do it but the issue is you are so non-representative there is no warning those people off because there's no negative externalities that happen within this system that is you does that make sense I try to bring fake natties into this but the good thing is I'm very transparent I'm very open I don't think you're transparent about how weird this is exactly the same as me talking about John Jones he's a normal guy he sits down he eats dinner he plays with his kids he does the thing he's like yeah but he also beats people up that are over 200 pounds for a living this guy has a very specific skill set within a very narrow domain and yeah he's normal outside of that but he's also within that world champion so I think I would encourage you to check your thinking on I'm not that weird because nobody else you've already said yourself nobody else has been able to do what you can do to the people that are trying to go in your path this is the same as you having unbelievable natural strength and being able to squat there's a guy who recently broke the death record no one else in the planet has ever been able to do that and somebody else trying to do that will snap themselves in half trying to chase it he is a 1 in 3.5 billion human and I do think that creates an odd sense of the cost that other people would pay if they would try and do the same thing because you do not deal with the situation in the same way like largely you're inhuman in the way that you're dealing with what is going on here is that fair? it'd be easier if I did struggle a bit and I could open up and say look it comes at this cost it comes at me crying myself to sleep at night it comes at my family are upset with me and I'm dealing with physical issues but that isn't the case for me it really has been an easy ride but I do always like to try and make it as clear as possible this is not normal for most people I am a normal girl but in terms of the way I deal with it and the way I'm able to manage it all the actual degree isn't normal and I don't have any tips as much as I wish I could say look if you want to do this here's some tips on how to manage it or how to be successful in it because I don't know I just handle it I just make for it yeah Louis and Bonnie thank you very much it's been really interesting to see do I wish I don't wish I could have come away from it and said I saw the second set of eyelids opening closed there was something in there that showed she was being contrived or seemed to be playing some sort of a game and that is where the fascination I think and the questions will continue because it is easier for people to assume that there is something being hidden than holy fuck I just do not have a model for how this person's mind works in this way and if it was probably any other industry that wasn't so heavily moralized I think people would be fascinated but for different reasons they'd be fascinated in the same way that a chess grandmaster or an elite strength athlete or a psychopath killer or anyone I have no understanding of how this person's mind works but because it is wrapped up in some bravado a lot of exposure and a very heavily moralized private thing that's now been commercialized and made public yeah you are the reductio ad absurdum of the sexual revolution I guess you're the spirit of the age see my brain honestly is not much going off the best of times but it's a very simple brain but yeah and I still get what you mean you can't walk away you know what I completely saw a funny side or actually I saw a different side but like yeah you would have seen a different side in society but it's as a whole I'm a nice person I'm always open for a conversation and I'm not going to come in and go you know what I'm going to fuck all your camera crew and I'm going to turn this into a gangbang please don't please don't I've lost a big table for but I will make jokes and remarks but I don't just walk around having sex with people I don't just you know instantly bend over or assume I'm having sex each day it's a whole it's to a certain degree two people thank you for having me thank you