The Nicholas Effect

Hello and Happy New Year! Welcome to the Gifted Life podcast where we have conversations about organ, tissue and I don't nation. You can always find us at thegiftedlife.org. I'm Roy Steele.

I'm Joey Boudreau. I'm Sarah Blake Morn. And today on the Gifted Life we'll be talking about how one little boy had a global impact on donation. And transforming how we think about stressors.

All that and more right here the Gifted Life. You don't want to miss it and we're thankful for you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for sharing.

Here we go. Here on the Gifted Life we are so honored to be joined by Mr. Redge Green. Hey Mr.

Green. Yes, hi. We certainly appreciate you. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much. The Nicholas effect if you've Googled it. Some of you may remember a vivacious seven-year-old tragedy and talk about donation. So Mr.

Redge, I just want to start with you. Can you tell us a little bit about your hero, Nicholas Green? Well, just 70-year-old. We were on vacation in Italy.

We were driving down the main road south from Naples. It was night but not very late. When a car pulled alongside us, instead of overtaking, through the night taking the sound of the cloud, angry, savage voices, obviously telling us to pull over. It seems to me that if we did stop, we'd be completely embarrassing.

So instead I accelerated. They accelerated too. I thought the car, they thought that the two cars raced alongside each other until a lot of things quite a long time, but probably was quite short. It was a deafening explosion.

And the passenger window behind the driver was blown in, obviously by a bullet. Maggie, who was my wife, who was turned round immediately to make sure that the two children were safe at Nicholas H7. And he's just a... I want to both appear to be sleeping peacefully.

I think the best thing at the time. By now, however, I was doing what I'd hoped away from the other car. From seeing the long side, I saw the next in the wing mirror and then through the driving mirror. And then they disappeared back into the night.

I continued at top speed because we knew whether they might... So we raced along. And as it happened, there had been an accident on the road. The police were there and ambulance was there.

So I pulled in. They went out in the car door. The interior light came on. Nicholas didn't move.

And I saw his tongue was sticking out with the slight chases on his chin. And I knew them as something very terrible happened. And to the ambulance, which was there for the other pair, the purpose of that. Where we were here that everyone did for them to operate on.

Instead, they put him back in the ambulance and drove him another two hours. It was a much bigger hospital. We followed on. When we got there, it looked like the medical staff of the hospital had gathered.

And they actually... Not many things words at all. The chief neurologist said to us that they said that they had the time because for them to be able to operate on him. And however that never happened, the Claire brain dead two days after.

So this was 1994, of course. And the concept of brain death was still... It had been around for a little while, but people didn't really know much about it. Was this the first time that you were ever presented with or had understood it?

Yes, they had well known that he's gone. Shouldn't lead the name of the organs. And I said yes. And that's all that was to it.

They seemed relieved. When we told them that this is what we... In Italy at that time, were at the lowest organ donation rates in Western Europe. And Sicily, which is where we were, had the lowest in Italy.

In other words, the organ donation was almost unknown there. At that time, not because 25 years ago. So did you guys bring up the donation or was that something that you guys were approached with? No, we go home and make it sing, but shouldn't be the name of the organs.

Everything has seemed... There's no good in it at all. But as soon as she said that, it was... I saw some good could come out of this thing.

And so we asked the doctors, so we have something to say. We'd like to donate the organs. They, as I said, seemed very relieved. I mean, I think...

But then on it was... And where did you guys... Everything clicked into place? Yeah, it sounds like you guys are so strong.

I know that we just came up on the 25-year anniversary. But back then, like now, donation has talked about, how did you guys know about it to be so comfortable with it to know that that was the choice, the right choice to leave that legacy? Well, we never had to come. We knew about it.

And I mean, you know, just as always seemed to us both. Although we didn't talk about it. It always seemed that it was the obvious thing to do. I mean, as well, we're going to...

Don't bury organs. And that really has always seemed a great waste. What we didn't know was, of course, just the extent of the good could come out of it. In Nicholas's case, there were seven recipients, two corneas and five organs.

And 25 years later, five of those seven are still leading productive lives. So, I mean, that itself was an astonishing thing to us. The other thing we didn't know about at that time was just how scarce the naked organs were. And of the def rate almost waiting with that came as a totally new idea to me.

So, you know, you talked about seven people's lives were touched. But then it's really much more than that. Countless, more lives were touched because of Nicholas and because of the decision that you guys made. You know, there was a book written in a movie and a foundation that touched so many others in so many countries, basically a global effect.

Can you can actually won an award with a AOPO? And, you know, it's something that I can, you know, before we came on, I remember having many conversations just with other colleagues throughout the country about how much the Nicholas effect touched them. So, can you tell us about, you know, what inspired you to then take the next steps of going beyond those seven lives? Yes, I work much of my life on daily papers.

And I'm very, that front page story on Monday is largely forgotten by Friday. But the response, the initial response to the Nicholas's death, all these newspaper stories, all the interviews that we were asked to give showed us that we had a chance to make this a more, a lot more lasting effect than it would normally have done. So, we both come to dedicate to ourselves for the next two years to, to telling as many people as possible in as many different ways as possible about the value of organization and about the waste that there was now because of the shortage. I said two or three years because after that, we had twins.

I was reading about that. We wanted to go on and Elinor, who very much loved her elder brother, was now suddenly an only child and we were concerned that she might feel too lonely. And then on our side, you know, we may too much of the affection on her. We need to share this.

So the twins were born on that. From then on, of course, Maggie was, had much less that she could do. So, just to get everybody in the same page, that was back in 1994, Nicholas was seven. He would be 32.

So 25 years have passed and I just want to pick your brain. I know that you're 90 now. So in those 25 years, some of the positive impacts, Nicholas Green's legacy. We know that more lives have been saved.

We know that the registry has had a positive impact because of his story. So can you walk us through what you think are so much just the biggest positives, the legacy of your son? Yeah, I mean, it was in Italy where literally within weeks, so organ donations went up to 25%. Not just people signing cards, but actually donating the organs.

They've hard to believe, but it occurred that three months he died on October 1st. At the end of the year, organ donations had risen at 25%. Now they went on rising for the next 10 years. So that in the end, division rates were three times as high as they were immediately before all this took place.

So all the trillions of people alive today who would have died. So it's perfectly clear what had happened in Italy. Around the world, of course, it's less easy to see. But there's all sorts of empirical evidence to show that organ donation rates are all the developed country and also the undeveloped ones as well.

Did see some increase as a result of this story. Joey, I think, mentioned that being a movie made, I wrote a book called the Nicholas Effect. 25,000 copies of that were sold. And hospitals, community groups, OPOs, all over the US have used that book to gain motivation for donations.

That book was the basis for a movie made for TV movie on CBS and was an example of cable news in India or South America or what. And so it's still changing minds in all these places. The executive producer told me that 100 million people around the world have seen it. And we know that it changes minds wherever it's shown because people just send us emails and say that.

Spurring those healthy conversations about donations, what we talk about here on the podcast. And sir, you certainly have done that through your son, Nicholas. And I love watching the whole movies, listening to him talk. And I loved how you were talking about his little freckles on his face, but just getting to know him through you guys.

The way you guys talk about him, it's easier. Storytelling is amazing. Who wouldn't want to listen? Who wouldn't want to learn making that educated decision?

Yeah, and I'm sure there's so many lives you don't realize you have saved outside of Nicholas's direct donation. I'm wondering if you've ever met any of the recipients. Yes, you have to remember that it just did create a sensation in Italy. And the result was that the people were known with an air of Rome himself, to every phone to tell that a boy from Rome had received Nicholas's heart.

And the other names, that was unusual right from the beginning, they were just names to us at that time. And then a famous charity called the Benino Pulejo Foundation named after two civilians. They asked us to come back to Sicily, which is where Nicholas died, to meet all the recipients. And he would put on a conference that would be meeting the all seven of them.

And one of them was still in hospital at that time recovering. He had a fairly hard time before he was recovering well, but his parents were very nervous about making him out too soon. So he was kept in, but we met the other six. And it was done in front of a battery of TV cameras and in reporters from all the main newspapers and magazines.

And we weren't about to see them until a traumatic moment where the door opened and in they all came into this vast arena where they were all taking place. And they were just the immediate families were there, the father and the mothers. But it was like an army, some laughing, some cheerful, some shy. And I think it was at that moment for the first time that I realized just the tremendous power to one single decision can be made, that all those lives transformed to me, not just their own, but all those their relatives and their grand sons and grandbundas.

It would have been devastated and trusted. And their friends, people will meet in life. The people that marry children that have all that. Just the ripple effect and you gave so many futures that day too.

And I was going to say, and meeting that, obviously how powerful that was for so many. And then years later, you met the Italian president, didn't you? I don't. It's a little out of time both of the bright ministers that are in the present have to see us.

And it was done without any reports of the area. It wasn't for either of them, they both saw us separately. And as I said in my book, I mean, they treated us not like leaders of a country, but as old friends. One, one of them, in fact, I always remember from there, the prime minister was Mr.

Beylus Goni, who was a very controversial figure. He loved and hated there. But with us, he was really again a model of kindness and tech. He, we were discussing all that happened and how he felt about it and so on.

And then at the end, we walked downstairs to his car was waiting for us to take us to the airport. And he said, as we were getting into the car, may I embrace you? And I said, of course. And I felt it cool.

And so I realized that he had laboring under this great emotion that had kept it under control. And it's that kind of reviewing this story in my mind. You're such a great storyteller. I'm here just taking it all in, but I can't help but feel like you and your wife are kind of ahead of your time and helping others leading the way.

Like you were surprising the doctors with a decision you kind of knew about donation. You wanted to leave a legacy for your son. And here we are 25 years later. And this global impact that has been made because of the love for your son.

Yeah, the legacy we think of, of course, you know, it's wonderful. So many people do know, Nick, of course, but it exists on two other levels for Maggie and me. Again, although we don't talk about it very much, I'm sure she feels like they're this way as well. But one of them is of course, the she is saving her life, probably the most important.

As I mentioned, thousands of people, how do you measure that? But in addition, it exists on another level, which is that of people feeling a sense of hope that many people are written to us to say something like this story has given me hope for a gentler kind of work. And so when I was a feeling that I think I actually visited a time, it sent an electric charge at the time through millions of millions of people. And it to my astonishment of the daily journalist, it's continued to have that effect.

Nicholas, let us mark your love in our soul over the world. Yes, and continues to do so. Thank you, Mr. Green, for sharing Nick with us and for giving so many hope.

And at this time in our podcast, it's time to take a moment for mental health with Sarah. Sarah, stressors. What are we talking about? Help.

All right. So today we're going to talk about how to transform the way we think about stressors. So everybody has stress in their life. I'm stressing now.

You stress every time. But things really what we're going to do is when you have something that's stressing you out is to rethink and retrain your brain to think of it not as something that can overwhelm you and bring you under, but can empower you and challenge you to be the best you can be. So this is a cognitive behavioral approach. So we're thinking about the way we think.

So basically what we want to do is first of all understand that stress, yes, can make and stressors can make you fearful and they can bring you anxiety and feelings of not being worthy or good enough. But if we can retrain our brains to think about stress as a challenge and something that we can overcome, it'll be a good thing. And we can just improve the way that we look at stressors, which would reduce the stress in your life. Sounds easy to say.

Sounds easy. No, a lot of times, you know, it does. It's hard to be a better version of yourself without addressing those stressors a lot of times. I get stressed out when I'm in speaking in public.

Right. For instance. You do. Clearly.

And, you know, but addressing that and understanding, okay, it's, you know, and I never go the, you know, just envision everybody neck at the end because that never works even. But I just, I try to tell myself, look, you know, it's, it's not as big a deal as you making it, but you know the information and kind of address it on that level. Now there's some stressors that I just, there's no way I can get over. Sure.

Like, you know, climate and mountain. Like that's, yeah. And I'm not saying everything that stresses you out or every stress in your life, you can overcome because there are some things that you just can't, everybody has, you know, fears. But it's more about challenging the negative thoughts about stress.

So instead of if you have a stressor and all of your thoughts are, you're going to fail, you're not going to do good. Challenge that with something that's realistic. So like you said, public speaking, instead of saying, you know, I'm going to fail and a stutter say, I know the information. I can do this and no one's going to be paying as much attention to the little mistakes I make as in the big picture that I'm trying to communicate.

We're just coming off the holidays. I was stressed, trying to get the house ready for food, Christmas and all that stuff. And I just was a grump, a real grange. I know it's hard to believe.

Right. I see that. But then I said, I'm going to, I'm going to plaster a smile right here to try to fake myself out. Didn't really work.

But in my little brain, like I was like, let me just smile. Like maybe smiling will help me get out of my funk. Yeah, which that's, I mean, that's you taking control of your thoughts and try to better feelings and a more positive experience. So we can still work on it.

We can talk Sarah. We'll talk. Maybe you have a topic you want Mr. To cover info at the giftedlife.org.

We'd love to hear from you. On every episode of the gifted life podcast, we honor a hero. We bring back our guest, Reg Green, to talk about his hero, Nicholas. Well, Nick, and you know, she always knew he was, he would play, she said, with, when no one else would.

And so it seemed really quite appropriate that even in death, he could give. He was a very bright boy in history when we were going to Italy. We played a number of games in which was a Roman many years when you get back to Rome, not by the force of life, but by the power of love. And now we pause and say thank you to Nicholas for the gift of life.

In our question and answer segment today, are the rules for organization the same in countries outside of the US? Joe, you want to take that one? I will try. That's a very complex question with a multifaceted answer here.

So I'm going to break it down into the three areas, main differences and similarities. First, in allocation, because of the geographical and demographical makeup, things are very different. For instance, we interviewed folks from Canada and they talked about their differences with the provinces. Everything is specific to that province.

And then when they don't have a match in that province, then they call their friends in another province and see, okay, do you have someone to match it? Like we did it before we've kind of fine-tuned the process of allocation that we've got now. And it's a little different in other European countries as well. From a preservation standpoint, it is also a little different.

One of the differences that we've got, again, with Canada, for instance, they have perfected some of the preservation machines much sooner than we have, because we have a lot more layers to go through with FDA approval. And they don't. So we learn a lot of what from a preservation standpoint, a lot from them. And then the solutions themselves, especially in Europe, use a completely different solution to preserve the organs than we do.

And then from the authorization standpoint, ours is much different, especially from many of the countries in Europe, in that for us, we're first person, and then we go to the next of kin to authorize. Whereas in some countries in Europe, such as Spain, led by Spain, is more of an opt-out situation where everyone is presumed consent unless the family opts out or the person opts out. So those areas are different. But ultimately, the donation process after death, whether it's neurological death, brain death, or circulatory death, the CD, is basically the same.

The recoveries, the surgeries, themselves, are all the same, whether you go to Africa, Europe, Australia, or the United States. So ultimately, across the world, organ donation is viewed as a gift from one person to the other. And it's still an amazing thing. And if there's differences, it still comes down to it's a gift to give.

So it's really great. If you do have any questions, you'd like us to answer. Email us at info at giftitlife.org or give us a call at 504-648-3477 so we can play your message. And that'll do it for episode 125 of the Gifted Life the First of the New Year.

Yes, it is. And a special thanks to Reg Green for sharing a story of Nicholas Green with us. What a powerful story. What a great story to tell he was.

Oh, my gosh. And just the love that you can still feel that they have for their son. And they just want him to have a legacy. They want to save more lives.

And they wanted to make the world a kinder place. Wow. Right. So hopefully that inspires you to take action.

If you aren't signed up to be an organ tissue and I don't know, you can do that now. Register me.org. Talk about one person making a difference, one couple making a difference. Just an amazing, an amazing story.

And the best place to find us is at our website, thegiftedlife.org. You can listen to our podcast there or on anywhere you listen to your podcast, whether it's Apple or Google or Spotify. And when you do listen, please leave us a five-star rating so that others can find us. All right, guys, on social media, like our page, Facebook, the Gifted Life podcast.

Follow us on Twitter and Instagram at GiftedLifePod. There we'll feature the other guests that join us here on the Gifted Life. Our goal is to spur those healthy conversations about organ tissue and eye donation. You are part of our team.

You are helping us make life happen. What we want to do is save more lives, right? And we need you to do that. So please share and go out and do something that you wouldn't normally do to help us make life happen in this new year.

Talk to you soon.