The Offer Ep Two: Warning Shots

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You're buying influence. Learn more by visiting acast.com slash advertise. After getting a seat at the table, your very own Mario Puzo and Francis Ford Coppola of podcasting are back to discuss episode two of the Paramount Plus limited series, The Offer. This episode is entitled Warning Shots.

And like the first, it was directed by Dexter Fletcher with a teleplay by Michael Tolkien, Leslie Griffith, Nicki Tuscano and Kevin Jay Hines. We established the key cast members in the last episode, but joining the family this week, we have Anthony Eppolito as Al Pacino, Stephanie Koenig as Andrea Eastman and David and Danny Nucci as Congressman Mario Biagi. Back with me for wine and hopefully a fun time is Will Chitch. We're doing today well.

Will Chitch? I am very, very well. I'm excited. I'm enjoying this journey.

We're going on and it's kind of, yeah, as we were chatting about off mic, it's inspired me to kind of, can we talk to, yeah, or can we talk to the cast members of this? Like, and I'm not going to say who yet because obviously I like to get stuff in the can before I do, but we've got a key player from this series interested about coming on the podcast, which is exciting stuff, right? Easy, very exciting. And so, yeah, how's your week been and how have you felt about the first episode of the offer in that week?

Is it kind of, I don't know, have you, has it stayed with you or have you felt like it's diminished? Yeah, no, I think so. I've got, let me say the first of it. I know what the show is and what to expect.

I'm fully on board with it. I'm really enjoying it. Yeah, I'm bored. Amazing.

Well, before we get into talking about this episode, there's a little bit of housekeeping we've got to get out of the way at the beginning. And that is talking about some wine. Will, what wine you got this week? This week I have gone Italian.

I've got a, I've got a little cianti, not a little cianti, a little cianti. Now I've got a miniature, maybe towards the end of the month. I've got a little cianti, so yeah, and it's a 2020. It's got a bit harsh.

It's got a it's got a chord. So yeah, nice. How much is a bottle of the little cianti cost in you? £69.

Oh, £69, yes, please. £69. Yep, a bit of blue. In my in my glass this week, I have 19 crimes.

It just says a 2020 red wine. It doesn't, it doesn't go with anything. There's no like kind of, do you know what I mean? There's no name to it.

It's not like a kind of Savion Blanc or anything like that. It just says red wine. Cost me, it's a fancy bottle we were talking about before, won't we? So lovely, sir.

£7 as well. I got it on a yellow ticket in Asda. So it's marked down. I'm not sure what the regular price is, but I'm a sucker if anything's reduced in price.

Do you have any offer? Oh, yeah. Yes, please. And it is, how's your wine taste?

Let's have a little sip. Oh, it's all right. Nice. Easy.

A little bit of spice. Yeah. All right, it's all right. Yeah, I'd say it's definitely a dryness to this wine, but it's juiciness as well.

I would say going off a last week's wine, I've done a step up. And I guess we need to figure out if episode two of the offer is a step up or is it level pegging with the episode before? So, yeah, where do you want to start with this episode? What do you want to do on a go-through of the beach?

Do you want to talk about? Yeah, what do you want to talk about? Any burning, any burning topics? This is a lot in this episode.

So maybe we should do it step by step because plot wise, there's quite a lot goes on. There is indeed. I must ask you before we get going as well. Have you started listening to bat Tony reading the Godfather yet?

I haven't. I've downloaded this ready, but I've had quite the week. So it's ready to go. So, yeah, next week when potentially I might be having a slowly hangover week, not because of other things I'm doing this weekend.

But yeah, so next week is the week of the last list and fatoni. Amazing. So, yeah, let's chat about how this episode begins. So we get Joe Colombo at an Italian American Civil Rights League rally.

Has some stern words about the Godfather. He says that the book is full of lies and Mario Puzo is a traitor to Italian Americans. How are we feeling about Giovanni Robises? His character, obviously we had a lot of stuff to say about the way he's portrayed Joe Colombo.

Is he growing on you? Is he? It is growing on me. I mean, I think initially, as I said before, I think initially it was the I wasn't sure how this show was going to pan out with his tone.

So that initial meeting of Joe Colombo was like, oh, that's quite a caricature. But he is growing on me. Yeah, I quite, as this episode goes on, he's still very buried in his shoulders. Yeah, he's gradually going further and further into his body.

Yeah, he's like a compressed accordion. Yeah, pulling back out again. Yeah, exactly. I don't know if he's going to disappear completely by the end of it into his own shell.

I'm not sure because it's going to be a bit more in this episode. The next thing we get to is looking at the ramifications of that cliffhanger from the previous episode, obviously, the Italian mob had hired Mickey Cohen to shoot out the window of El Ruddy's car as a warning shot that they should have been making. Yes. Yeah, they should have been making the God father.

So I wanted to talk about this thing because these two cops, like, I don't know if they're going to turn up again, these two FBI men. But what a couple of fucking scenes thing. Let's these guys are, right? Yeah, they roll it and wander around the car.

Yeah, I hope they do come back. Yeah, because I need more of them. I think it's an El Ruddy R. So he's like, what's your brother?

No, go and have to make your co-neys. Just suspicion. I know. And then I really like fucking like what I'm sitting on the bonnet of the car, like a real fucking big, big, big swinging dick.

You know, you're kind of like, yeah, with a raised eyebrow. Yeah, raised eyebrow. Like, really assumptions, always like stuff aside, could be with your business, could be a personal and I look at betting as if they'd be like, you're fucking the wrong game here, fella. He's really like, I don't accuse the tour.

I mean, like the worst kind of cops, right? It's like, they've come to help you, but they might as well just fucking slam you against the bonnet of the car. But he'd be like, you want to fucking help do your sunshine? Yeah, and she says, the duo, she says, they tried to tell us, he gives it all, if they want to kill you, they want to kill you, visit a warning shot with that still with the raised eyebrow.

So we all, yeah. And then, then we get, yeah, reintroduced to Mario and Francis, who are hard at work on the script for the godfather. Well, at least Francis is right. It seems that Mario is preoccupied with other things on this one.

This was one of my favourite scenes in the episode, is it properly made me laugh when Francis was doing his whole thing, the whole thing about King Lee, and Mario, who says, did you, my hand sandwich? It's really funny. I could, I could watch those two A episodes of just those two right here, because it's so good. Yeah, it's not so much an odd couple, because they are almost like a perfect match as well, aren't they?

Yeah, it'd be like, I don't know, it'd be like Step Brothers without the conflict, just these two guys who really get on just like hanging out, like eating, eating lavish food, and like talking about this script. Like, you know, like a moment in episode two where they just go, oh my god, we just become best friends, that kind of thing. But yeah, I love watching those. So I think it's probably funny as well.

And I think it does speak to like the true life facts of Mario Puzo and Francis Sorekoplop, think they did bond over the fact that they're both Italian Americans, but obviously, I don't know, they're very much, and despite obviously that the reservations of the mob in this, them themselves, like a kind of reluctant about that stereotypical view of Italian Americans, as these mobsters and that, which I find is like a kind of irony throughout this, right? That obviously Puzo didn't really want to write it. Francis didn't want to direct it. Like he's like, I don't like this, like, yeah.

I don't like this. Yeah, this whole scenes of them discussing about, like, we don't want to be so, we don't want to make them so typical Italian American mobsters. And then every scene of the mobsters is the stereotypical Italian mobsters, which is talking like this. And you're like, oh, we have a meaning in this dark and wrong, like, you're going, you're going to put a fucking other zero on that check, like, you're going to have a better society than me, Paul.

Yeah, no, that's your meatball. That is a little bit stereotypical, you know. What I love about this scene is obviously, yeah, it kind of, I don't know, leads to saying with that great little joke about the ham sandwich. But then it really kind of shows us Francis's fears of like the studio involvement in the film and like obviously sets out his pitch of what the film will be right, like a kind of scathing takedown of capitalist America.

And it kind of ends on like a really beautiful note as well, like a bit of sweet note where he says to Mario, I love you Mario, but I have to keep reminding myself that this is a paycheck job. And yeah, and it makes me like, it makes me feel bad and I hate it. Just keep working. And it's like, oh man, like what if I can kick it, Joe?

Like, yeah, and that that that scene is that that the did you read my ham sandwich is really funny. But like you said, I think maybe in the first episode, maybe I was a little bit with I said, well, it's been a really breezy. There are some, you can see there is some proper emotional beats in this in this episode is especially over the first one. There's some stuff you can see that is a through line coming with, like you say, struggles with making a film and yeah, so that the tone is quite like, but there is some stuff in this episode especially, which is quite heavy.

There's some heavy stuff in there. Yeah, like we said, obviously, like there are roadblocks throughout like all of this, but we are never to believe that outcome of this story. So obviously, we don't talk about that too much because that is the thing. And I was chatting to someone yesterday and they said like, maybe I'll give it a watch like, really out of kicking, like a lot of reviews, like kick in.

I'm like, you know what, it's fluffy, it's fun. And it's very much like for people like myself and imagine you like that. It's dealing with a subject that we like, we're interested in, right? Like these kind of stories of films getting made and stuff.

Yeah, exactly. Like I said before, the kick, some of the kicking is gone is because of it's like tone and the cameos from people like it last episode, the other. But like I said before, that's kind of the thing. I'm on board with, I think it's fun.

And I'm kind of like, I'd be happy with more of that people popping in. Yeah. Yeah, I enjoy it. I got that type of that.

So the next scene we move to here is out and better, having a drink and outtales betting the story about they're obviously shucking up by the whole Mickey Cohen situation. Our kind to, again, you get to get to understand our bit more this kind of like fear that he's got. I think it's kind of a good like, partner scene with the one before, because you see that both men, like who are kind of shepherding this film in Francis and how kind of have the same fear of kind of going back to the where they were, like, Francis is worried to just like go back to being in debt and our ruddy is worried about going back to the Rand Corporation. But then you see, I don't know how's got this like determination in it, because he tells that story about how a bully said he was going to beat him up, but he just went for it anyway, and like, still got his arse handed to him, but like he did it, right?

Yeah, it's a funny little beat, and quite again, I think that's the tone of the show, I mean, it's a funny little beat when she's doing a sample of says, oh, let me guess, you kick his ass, and he's like, oh, I can't like, and it's working kicked. And you're like, oh, but it was the point is he didn't, he had to go. But it's a funny line. What do you think of the chemistry between, do you know, 10-4 and Miles Telex?

Obviously, like, it's interesting to see a platonic, like, and it's almost like a mutual respect relationship as opposed to a romantic, I mean, like, normally a couple of leads, there would be like, like a sexual tension between them, but it feels like this show isn't doing that between those two, right? Now, exactly, I don't think there's that, like you said, with, you kind of expect as soon as this is happening is that the whole Willy or won't be scenario or what they get it. And I don't think that's it at all. I think there is, like, there is, and if anything, the Jewish sample character is the stronger character, because she knows that she's basically helping him.

Do you know what I mean? It is, it is, it is, yeah, it's just a platonic thing, and it's a mutual respect. But yeah, she's almost the brains of the operation. Yeah, but we have, and that's why, what do you think of their chemistry as actors?

Like, do they? I think they seem to be good. I think, yeah, I haven't read many of you, so I don't know why personally think it works. I think they seem to be good together.

Jewell's town is always great. Miles Telex is good, but Jewell's town is always good. But yeah, I think it works. She's got her liveliness to her, right?

And she's kind of like, who, time she's on screen, kind of like, she brightens it up and like that character. I don't know, she's a, she always acts like a kind of like audience conduit at times as well, because she is kind of like ever knowing about stuff. And she's obviously mentioned stuff that like the audience already know as well. So, oh yeah, this, like, this person is always like, she's like, might as well just be going, wait a minute to the audience at times.

Yeah, she's like, she's like, I were in, uh huh. Yeah, yeah. So the whole thing. Yeah.

I really like that about that. Um, so yeah, it's established that already is like, he kind of says, like, she's actually asking him, are you gonna go punch Mickey Cohen? He's like, no, but I am gonna go talk to it. Um, which late, like, I don't know, we can, we can talk about that scene and then double back to, I don't know, um, I guess the scene that comes next is an interesting one because I don't know if it establishes anything for the plot, but I'd be interested to know what you think it kind of does to the portrayal of Robert Evans, but we get, we get, again, again, it's really cool fucking looking scene, but it's Robert Evans going to this kind of party in the Hollywood Hills set to Can You Hear Me Knock In by the Rolling Stones.

Yeah, what do you, what do you make of this, this party scene? Yeah, I mean, it is nothing to the plot of this episode, but just a little hint of Robert Evans. That's basically it. Um, I can again, Robert, he's so good in this and this, I don't know if we did it.

Like, I have watched anymore, but like, um, I don't know if we were getting a slight hint of Robert Evans, maybe sleazier aspect and his little, because it's a bit, she says, I just want to be in the movies and he says, you're already in the movies and you go, okay, he's just dumb. And I, whether that's it, we're just seeing that there is this, not darkest item, but excessive side, termist to Evans. Oh, yeah, definitely. And I think, I can imagine like, because this scene doesn't really drive the plot or anything like that, it was just the Fletcher going to be a really cool scene for this episode, and I'd really like to shoot.

It's quite Scorsese. Yes. Well, yeah, I think the fact that he's scored by the Rolling Stones helps that, right? Yeah.

Yeah, and they say, yeah, it's got the value of the good fellow stuff. And that's Scorsese by the way, yeah, I think it doesn't do anything for the plot, but yeah, then I suppose if you're the ex-thefleture and you'd be given why not do that scene, because the more Evans about it. Yeah, I'm really loving Matthew Good so far in this series from Evans. And I'm sure we'll get into some more of his shenanigans throughout this chat.

So yeah, then we get the scene between Al and Francois talking about the Mickey Cohen situation. And Francois tells us, well, yeah, tells him in part tells the audience like her tail and her running with Mickey Cohen back in the day. And again, like, how do you think this scene establishes who she is? Because I guess we get to know a little bit more about her, especially in this episode, there's kind of two kind of key pivotal scenes to get to know Francois a bit better.

Yeah, because in the first episode, she's not much of a character, but again, we're getting to see more of her. And again, there's another place where there's two scenes in this way, we get to learn a lot more about her and her rolling, how this is a pan out and how things have panned out. But yeah, I call it because again, you think the female characters have got more to do in this episode. Temple is definitely, like she says, she is in.

And yeah, Francois, yeah, it's just more to it. You're learning more about her. And she's obviously, like I said, I don't know, I haven't seen any more than this, where I think maybe she'll become more pivotal in how things will go. And it also gives us a little insight into what's gone on before we co-in as a threatening character.

Yeah, she's pretty f***ing badass, right? Because he obviously said to her, like, let me be your supplier for your kitchen. She's like, no, like, I'm not, I think something where you better find some, you better find some like some protection then. And her response, yeah, I survived the Nazis.

Do you think I'm afraid of you? And then just poured him a glass of champagne, like clink glasses and she never saw him again, like what a f***ing badass. That is pretty bad, I said. One of the things, like, I find, I don't know, she's really got to be in her bonnet, especially this episode about how hiding something, right?

And it's like, what is the suspicion about, like, what is he hiding that he hasn't told her at this point? Well, yeah, and initially, you'd, like, it would be in these kind of things, you'd go, oh, it's because he thinks she thinks he's someone else or maybe it's not that she's just determined that he is hiding something. But I'd say, he's not really, she's pretty in the loop with things. Well, as we said in our first episode, like, they would have got together three Hogan's heroes.

So if we're to believe that, they've been like, in the kind of timeline of things, they've possibly been together, like, five years at this point. Oh, yeah. And do you know what I mean? And it's, I think that's like a bit, a bit thingy, because it's, I don't know, it's a hard one to tackle, because it's like, what we've seen of them, the kind of like, we've only seen a few scenes of them.

It feels like they're still in the early stages of their relationship. Yeah, but no, you said it, you forget that the time scale and the time frame of this show is, I think it's slowed down now, but in that first episode, especially it was like, we've, we've rocketed through some time. So yeah, we're, we're, we're we're getting a pace now. But yeah, it's, as you say, it's easy to forget that, yeah, they must have been together for five years.

Yeah. Unless they like condensed all of that time. It's like, I thought it was only a couple of years, but like, yeah, even so, they've been, they've been together for the whole production of a film, which you can imagine is like from inception to release, is at least a year. Do you know what I mean?

They've been taken for at least two years, or five at the most. Right. In the second week, they've been together while they've known the ins and outs of the ins and outs of things. But yeah, it's easy to forget that.

And yes, but it's actually, it's not hiding a lot. It's all up there. Yeah. So what do you, what do you make up the scene where our ghosts meet, Mickey Cowett?

Did you like it? Obviously it's another mobster, but this time we got an air, we got that flavor of LA, right? Yeah. Okay.

Myos Taylor is pretty good at this. I can't be go back to, I have no idea how Armie Ham was ever going to be this guy, yeah, still can't get my head on the asshole. But yeah, myos Taylor's good. And you get another sense of myos Taylor becoming a bit more savvy, a bit more of a Robert Evans character.

Well, he is quite hard to be fucked with. I guess in this episode, there's a pivotal scene between How Ruddy and Robert Evans, where it's kind of, he's given license to really lean into being like a producer. I mean, as a player, just like, yeah, just go along, do what you've got to do. He's like, he kind of gives him this speech.

I know you've got to do anything. Like, we're not these guys. But yeah, we'll get to that and talk about that scene in a bit more detail. Yeah, I think there's a great tension in this scene between him and Cohen, because obviously, like it does, it's the first time obviously as an audience, we've been, we're aware of the kind of the mob's feelings towards what's going on.

But I think this is the first time, obviously, that how is explicitly aware that there are people who are vehemently against the making of the godfather. Yeah, so first time he's probably laid out, laid out a table to him exactly who is not happy and why they're not happy. So it's, we get the son after a mention that Frank is knocking. So yeah, it's the first time we get in a real sense.

Well, as about him, ready as well as real sense of, this isn't going to go away. They are the boys are pissed. They're not happy at all about it. And they just want it to go make the movie.

Yeah, it's like, you kind of have a tree out, don't make the movie. And he has a closing line to our only way. He says, like be a straight shoot of these guys because they don't fire warning shots. And it's like, oh, okay.

Okay. So, Joe, Joe, I love all these guys. They don't fire warning shots. We got scraped in a juggler.

Just say warning shots quite a lot. Just in case we went away to this episode, it's called warning shots. Yeah, a lot of events. Yeah.

Was that the name of the script? Or they were like, you know what? It's been said in this episode quite a lot. It was warning shots like this.

Yeah, let's call this episode warning shots, shall we? I've got it. Warning shots. Yeah.

But yeah, they say if they don't fire warning shots. So you get another sense of this a genuine potential threat from the voice. So, yeah, it was mentioned earlier on an episode when Mario and Francis were talking that they had this production meeting about like what was going to happen. And so the players, the people we have there, we have Bob Evans, we have Peter Bart.

Yeah, we introduced Andrew Eastman, who is the head of casting at Paramount betting McCarches there, Francis and Mario. And they're talking about Francis Coates's great speech about like how he sees the script about this balance between light and dark and how we've got like Connie's wedding, we've got the whole thing with Michael that like Peter Bart kind of pipes up and he's like, yeah, he's just come back from like World War II, he's like a beacon of light and stuff like that. And it's about how he kind of moves towards darkness. And it's kind of like, I don't know, you really get that sense of passion from Francis, right?

And the fact that he's adamant that he should read a uniform because the uniform is the represents Hobart for this great depression. And yes, you really get a sense of Francis is he's taking the picture, but he's really passionate about the film. And also, it's I love the fact that the first time he's who proves on me and he's smashing a pastry. Yeah, kind of throughout this episode, he kind of has these like, it's almost like this running gag of like poo-zoe with food, right?

The kind of opening line he has about the ham sandwich, you've got to like go to the side of the game pastry, you've got a scene like where he's trying to eat a slice of cake and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah. But it's not all fun and games at this meeting because it is interrupted by Barry Lapidus, as we mentioned last week by Colin Hanks, and Jack Ballart, who is the, I guess like another company stoo, right? He's like Barry Lapidus, isn't the right hand man.

Yeah, he goes and he goes the right and just floats into the room. Yes. There's all Colin Hanks. It's just, yeah, he literally is a proper dern who just comes in.

But I really, Colin Hanks is playing Dick Wellness. Yeah, yeah, he's good. And I think it's interesting, like, as of like, I don't know, I reckon there's an element of him that's like, oh, my dad has made a career of being like, do you know what I mean? Everyone's kind of like nice uncle.

It's like, I'm going to kind of fuck against that and like play these arse up with and stuff. Because he is a real dick in this, and he does play it well. Yeah, he plays it really well. I really kind of, um, it's quite slappable face.

Yeah, you know, he's got that real, every line that it's with is smug. And you know, it's especially like, like, when when he comes into the room and like, it's like, oh, yeah, nice to you to pop by. And he's like, well, it's this meeting. It's actually why we're here.

It's like, I like, well, yeah, well, yeah, like, we're yeah, Bob, like, we're here for this. And then clogging Jack, like both of like, if anything, I think those two characters, especially from this scene, I would just like to grab their heads, clack them together. So a couple of arseholes with their kind of all they care about is like the budget of the film and Jack Ballard starts talking about like the changes he wants to make and how they can get it into budget. What are the changes he proposes?

Well, the, uh, not New York, not so many New York. That's a little too expensive and chase a period. Make a change a period. Make a content more contemporary comes back from Nam.

And the thing is like, I don't know if it's like rewatching it, like you see, and I guess because like, Coppola hasn't really interacted or hasn't seen the things we've seen with Bob Evans. It's like the way he reacts, you can tell Bob Evans is very much doing like, Oh, yeah, like, uh, yeah, that sounds cool. Yeah. Yeah.

Great. We'll take that on board. Yeah. Well, we'll take the, like, he's got it.

He's got it. He's got it. We're taking on more. Yeah.

Yeah. We're going to go. I'm hoping as incensed, right? He's like, fuck this.

I'm getting out of here. Like, uh, I really enjoy you that your Bob Evans impression is getting more like Jackie Stallone every year. Yeah, I need to work on my Bob Evans. I'm not sure.

I'm not sure. I'm not sure it's him because as he's getting modern, modern, he's already, it's all in law. And I think it's, yeah, it's like the week's way again. He's like, he's doing his thing.

He's like, yeah, fine, whatever. But we kind of know he's, he's going to stand for it. Yeah. He's like, he's like, he's like, he's got the say like, uh, and one of the things I wanted to talk about, and I think it's a really nice touch, especially for like nerds like me, I've like, uh, really, like, research the godfather and kind of this.

It's an amazing book and audio. It's called the godfather of notebook. And we get glimpse of it here, which is that, um, his like, his version of the script he has, or like his kind of book, that, that like ring binder, he'd like place on the desk because I think like Bob Evans says, like, oh, no, it's paperweight, Francis. Like, but that is, that is something that existed.

And what Coppola actually did was went through the book. So he got two copies of the book to be able to do this. Um, got big pieces of like, yeah, got larger pieces of card. And what you do is cut out every single page of the book and stick the pages to the card.

And then what he would do is kind of highlight stuff and then can write stuff in the margins, like taking the book and basically using that as a template for the script and how he would shoot the film. And it was something that he had picked up from his days of working in like, um, theater in college. Like, so it's something a lot of like theater directors will do is kind of, because obviously they're figuring out staging, lighting cues and stuff like that. They'll take the script and put it on larger pieces of cards so they can really go through it and figure out what they're doing.

It's almost like a kind of the Bible for the production. And I like that as like, it's throwaway, right? Like, you kind of get the joke from Bob Evans, but if you're not, yeah, I wasn't aware of that. I just, I thought it was a throwaway because the he slams it on the table and, you know, it's just, it was throwaway lighting.

But see, I would have, let me say before this show is fun and it's easy watching. It's real just goes on. But they obviously is that for no, just say, but you know what I mean, it is obviously, it's not it is breezy, but it's they have a mess about research and stuff because there is these things in it. Yeah.

Yeah. And it's something like, I don't know, I'm always passing this. Like an audio but version about it with Coppola goes through some of the like pages and like talks about his process of how he put together the book and stuff like that. It's actually, it's actually read by him.

And it's like really, really great like to listen to. And again, the person he uses to read out like sections of the screenplay and stuff like that, or like, we do it. That's only from the Simpsons. Somebody like more fat told me.

traffic with the actors name is because he does pop up in God, pop free. Oh, he's always the voice. It's a joke. No, not sure.

Joe something Joe Joe, Joe Mantek, don't man. Man, yeah, yeah, yeah. It is it. Isn't it from criminal mind?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously, yeah.

He said, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, yeah. It's got Tony. Yeah, that's Tony.

Yeah, I guess it got fat Tony because he was in the Godfather. But that's because I'm in the Godfather. Apart from like, so we get front to storm out of the meeting and then Evan, our ready walk in. And we get, yeah, we get this kind of confrontation between copa, which leads into a kind of confrontation between our ready and Bob Evans about like, you're not believing in the artistic integrity of copa, and leads to this moment, which I think is a real like turning point for Al and kind of solidifies the attitude to filmmaking that Bob Evans has.

Right. How did you get into my office? What do you mean? You got in because you did something's not done.

You saw something that you wanted and you went for it. You and I are not like these corporate folks. We'll play you by the book. We write the fucking book.

Now, you want to be a producer. You do what every taste is. You want to make it what you want to do. Now you want to New York.

Go there. Make some deals. Prove that you can do it for the money. Bank borrow.

I don't give a fuck. Steel. You do what every taste. Now, you don't have a lot of track record.

But you got brains and you got balls. Try using both. But we have the same time. I love it.

I love it. You got brains and you got balls. Yeah, it's the sort of ball. I love the idea.

The thing is that they are kind of two sides of the same coin, even though Bob Evans is a lot more assured in himself where his ruddy is kind of, I don't know. Ruddy feels like he punched you where Bob Evans would be like, I'm going to ruin your career. Jeremy. So, yeah, what do you kind of what do you make of that speech?

Matthew good. Like I can talk about Matthew good for a good solid hour. Yeah. Matthew good is smashing it and it's so good.

I know he said it before, but he is it's such a big performance. But it's not it's a good performance because it is big and his Berlin Robert Evans was a big character. But it's a visual look. I don't think it's massive, but it doesn't go over that line where it's so ridiculous that it's like it's the right level of ridiculous.

Well, when you look at actual photos of Bob Evans, like he was ridiculously tap like I think if anything they've owned it down for this because he was like kind of Dale Winter levels of like tap. Do you know what I mean? Or who's the bloke who used to host bargain? David Dickinson.

Yeah, he kind of had that complexion like a mahogany. Like he's like ridiculous and like he's white teeth and always wore like shades and stuff like that. Like Bob Evans was a madman. I think Matthew good has kind of captured that and it's like I don't know.

I know Bob Evans could be a bit of a and I'm sure we'll get see could be a bit of a freaking prick as well. He does capture that though. He is a quality. He is prick.

He isn't a bit of an art, but I think the way he's played and you can understand that he is likeable and likeable is a character. Yeah, exactly. Not a character. And you do want to watch more of it.

Like he's the character every time he's on screen. Here we go. Here he is. I think it's like it's got that aspect of like Scorsese.

Right. Well, these are good fellows. Like these are not good guys. These are not like actual good fellows, but like they are entertaining to watch Joe Pesci as a fucking mad man.

He's a real piece of shit. But I want to watch him. Funny how? Like, how?

Like, yeah. Yeah. So every time he's on screen, although I know, yeah, yeah. And we know that he's not a great guy.

Well, I do want to watch him. And I think that is the Matthew good is his performance is good. So yeah. I guess we get this next scene, which is again, there's a couple of scenes in this from like, is this just supposed to, I guess they're like establishing scenes of who the characters are.

But yeah, Joe Colombo with that guy coming in to like donate some money to the to the league. And it's like, okay, it doesn't push the plot forward, but just kind of shows us what Joe's about, right? And how kind of invested he is in this league, but the kind of says the guy is 10, 10, 1000 dollars. I got a fucking insult.

You had another zero on that check. Okay. Okay. I know what fucking money you are.

I know it's money you were in motherfucker. And it cools us in the next guy. You better have a better news for me than this fucking meatball. I think this is disappear further and further into the fucking chair.

Yeah. Well, fucking Giovanni would be shit, but okay. Okay. He is getting squetty at a more shoulders.

Yeah, I guess Giovanni is not coming on this book. He's good. He's just very sweaty. It's fun to mimic that role.

I guess I don't know. Did we talk about like, obviously the character of Joe Colombo, but like Giovanni Robecia is an actor I find like fascinating because he does take these like really interesting roles, right? And like I'm trying to think like, I don't know, what was the first thing you ever saw in him? I'm just trying to think about like him as an actor.

Maybe he was in friends, right? Yes. Yeah. Did he play one of those?

Phoebe's brother. Yes. Phoebe has his babies. I don't think I've made that up.

Phoebe was going to carry his babies and he had the older. Yeah. I remember. I was in the ocean films.

No, he wasn't. I was not. But yeah. He might think.

He's the one who is not. No, it's this athlete. It's Casey Affleck, isn't it? He's an god.

He's in 60 seconds though, right? He plays he plays Memphis. He plays Memphis Reigns younger brother. Yes.

He's the one who like gets them into the ship, right? That's it. And oh, he's an avatar. Okay.

Yeah. I think he's in. I remember seeing him crop up in. It's not a good film.

I'm not going to dwell too much on two of the leads in this film, but he's in the film, Rum Diary, which is a adaptation of a Hunter S Thompson novel. Hunter S Thompson? But like, he just plays a fucking mad man in that. And I guess there's like a aspect of him.

Yeah. Like where he just, I don't know, wants to do these like weird roles. And I know he's like, yeah, he's a season regular on that show, Sneaky Pete as well, isn't it? Like, yeah.

Yeah. I've been looking through his film. I mean, he has, I mean, he's got a, he's good and stuff. And he has got a vibe, even a friend stuff.

He's, there's a definite vibe of like, he's slightly unhinged. And he does, there's definitely in this, you can see, especially this, it's a bit of a throwaway scene, but it does give you that sense that he's on the edge. There's a definite like, he can, and he plays well because he could blow any time, and he's got that vibe about him, even though he's all shoulders, but you can sense that he's, he's a dangerous guy. I'd obviously some, some level of commitment to the role.

So like, he's definitely put on some timber for this, right? He's definitely like been sat there drinking, like waiting for, waiting for Ben and Jerry's to melt and just drinking it to pack on the pounds really quickly. Oh, yeah, he's, he's a chunky little fucker in this. He's definitely put on, like you say, a bit of cake, though.

Yeah. I'm into it. I'm into it. Yeah.

The next thing we have is the first of the two kind of casting meetings, because I guess the thing that they're trying to figure out now is who the fuck is going to be in this? And they're talking about prospects for who can play the Don and the names are floating about Danny Thomas and all of these are kind of rebuffed by copeless. He's like, no, he's a comedy actor. Anthony Quinn, he's like, well, no, he's like half Mexican, he's like, he's played Lebanese, he's played, he's played Greek, he's played this and then Olivier's brought up like saying that, because I know that in actuality, I think they did approach Olivier at one point and like, but with two ill, but it's kind of done in this as kind of a bit of a throwaway thing.

And I guess that's where Betty McCart, the character comes in as like the kind of audience like, like, if you've researched, you know the real story that like Olivier will in talks for this, but that she kind of says like, Oh, Olivier's like, got prostate, or like, Jim in his got like, yeah, I got cancer or something like that. And they're just like, Oh, yeah, that is what that is, why he kind of passed on it because he was too ill, couldn't even get can fly out to America, it was that that it or something like that. And then it's brought on to the facts and Andrew Eastman tries to shut down explaining that Marlon Brando might not be a good choice for the Don because of he's basically poison at this point. He's hard to work with.

He's he's a difficult man. It's last point. He's flopped, right? Good bomb, yeah.

Yeah. And that's quite, sorry, that's quite a clever way because if you we all we're a way for Brando, like I am as someone who's not as person the coffee as other people, I like the coffee, but I'm waiting for your big players to come in. So it's quite a clever scene in the sense of the program where even people are not massive fans of the coffee, we'll get those real deep dive stuff. But if you watch the coffee, you know Brando, and you if you go to passing interesting films, you know, Brando, so these little hints all the time of, oh, we should get Brando.

You're kind of going, Oh, we always come in. Yeah, there's that scene at the beginning as well. Right? We're like, um, Mario and Francis are talking about like Brando, and they say how like Mario wrote them a letter and he's the only guy for it.

He wouldn't even have the right thing. He's like, he is the don. And I just, I don't know. Yeah, the passion from those two.

I could give me fucking give me the Francis and Mario show. No, absolutely. There's a there's a every time they're on screen together, just the two of them is the two of them writing and again, like, so that bit then with them, I've almost signed copy of the book, you know, in the hope that I can say in the book, but just the interpretives and never seen they are these two being absolute legends. But yeah, those two I could watch.

I could just watch the series. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Andrea Eastman gives them like one, one good thing because she says that Victor Mo is interested in playing Johnny Fontaine. So they fly to Vegas to meet him.

Well, yeah, what do you think of this? What do you think of this scene? Like, I really like that because it again is that you could almost, oh, where is he? He's in Vegas.

Had to be the if this was a parody, they would have hundreds of how you thought you'd all the table you would see the plague across the across the map. But then we, we had he's in Vegas. But yeah, I, and then he obviously gets to Vegas. I love that with Francis as well.

Like, they're kind of like the schmoozing and he's like, Oh, my mum was a massive fan. She like nearly wore out the vinyl. I had to go to film school just to get some peace and quiet. He's like, he's like, flattery works on me, pal.

Like he's like, he's like, I love, I love Padon. I love you. I love, I love the book. and he says to our runny.

It's like, I'm sure I find something to love about you. And he's like, well, on the meringation of checks, he's like, well, let it go. We've got a perfect we've got something to love about you. And then he says, he says the puzzle doesn't he says, come on.

It's, it's an after in it. And then who says no, 14 is you? And it kind of a silent for a second, right? There is an animal like, like, fuck, what do you mean, he's me like, and, well, we get like immediately, we get, we get Sinatra and how you get your feelings on to the what are your feelings on the patrout Sinatra this week?

They were a bit like Luke warm last week, right? It's still a bit luke warm on it because they said, but then that's kind of the same people with the show. It is like, how could you a Sinatra guy on the phone? Like, so I'm kind of a massage, right?

In Palm Springs or whatever. Yeah, it is properly characterized, but then it is a keep it like it's a keep it like saying keep the show that I think that's what it is. We're not, we're not, I think we're getting what we think Sinatra is. I don't think I was trying to do anything else.

I like quite like that, because it is a pretty fun. We're not trying to like, I don't know what I'm seeing. I haven't seen anymore than this. Maybe we'll get some deep insight into Sinatra is I doubt it.

I'm fine with that. I guess there's an aspect for some people, it might be a bit of a shock because some people like view of Sinatra that he's like, do you know what I mean? Like the blue-eyed boy, like really nice and stuff like that and kind of like he did have serious mob connections and he could be a bit of a prick and stuff like that. And I think this show is really painting about to be like, he's a fucking he's a asshole.

Well, yeah, they're not fucking about with the Sinatra dick levels because he's a dick. He's a hateful little dick. I just can't, I find it so funny like how hit up like Sinatra is and the mob and like how he's like pestering immediately gets on the phone to Joe Colombo and he's like, I think I told you it's a bit sorry, he said you were going to slot it. Like even Joe Colombo's kind of like wicks end with him because as soon as he like, he's like, oh fuck this guy, fuck this guy, fuck this guy, he's like really nice.

I'm not sure if you notice, but we get the guy who tells him that Snarchers on the phone is Lou Ferrigna. The Fongerino. Yes. The the incredible Hulk himself who from like looking at IMDB, who he is playing in this, it is perfect casting because he is playing Lenny Montana, who would go on to be Luca Bratsey in the godfather.

So like again, Lou Ferrigna is perfect casting. He could kind of do that like or like I come here on the day of like did that bumbling like more on thing like Luca Bratsey has to do and there's like, oh yeah, there's like whole stories about him like yeah like Lenny Montana on set. I think the take they use in the field where he fucks up what he says like to the dot was was a rehearsal take but they just thought it was so good like that he's so like nervous and like kind of like a bumbling idiot and stuff like that that they left it in and yeah, yeah, Lou Ferrigna is perfect. Perfect casting.

So I think this is a really tense thing that we get is when Joe Colombo goes to me, Carlo Gambini. What do you make of this thing? Because this is kind of like real sinister edge to it, right? Real mob shit.

Yeah, perfect. This the first time real mob shit. Like you do get a sense of that like it's the first time where it almost calms down a bit the mob stuff with it. The caricature is this over the top like again, what you'd expect from the mob stuff is the first time we've got a bit of quiet shat and it's laid on the line within the mob stuff.

And yeah, it's almost a tough it could almost come out of a different show. You could almost whack that scene in like the Sopranos or something like that because it is quite a tense serious scene. There's not like mostly other scenes we've got even with the Darks of there's some kind of funny line or funny clip of sorts, but it's nothing in this. It's just a straight-o-line meeting.

And I think it's that thing where obviously like Joe Colombo is like a new guard of all like, like, yeah, he's just been introduced to the commission of like the kind of mobster that has just got to sit at the table. And we've got like Carlo Gambino who's like the old guard, whereas like Joe Colombo's handling himself almost like in the way that like Bob Evans, it's jumping a bit mover of Shaco, like he wants the spotlight, he's starting up this, he's starting up this, yeah, like this league and stuff like that. And like, being this kind of sense, like, you should have got someone else to front this, you should have got Piaget, like the congressman, like you should have got someone else like, this is not what we do, like this is not how we handle ourselves. And then like, I guess it ties into like what the godfather is and the way that betrays mobsters because what is it says to him is like, staying the shadows.

Staying the shadows, yeah. Like, and it's like, I think that line is like really like, that's pretty, yeah, that is pretty sinister. Yeah, yeah, and yeah, I've got to give a shout out to what is his name, Anthony Skidori. I might have got that wrong, but the actor who plays, yeah, Carlo is fantastic.

Like, I think he's like a real, real kind of, yeah, Anthony, Anthony scored it. Yeah, he plays, he plays Gambino is, I don't know, he just delivers a level of menace. It's really like, really great, I thought. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's because when that happens and the played little performance, there's so many big stuff in it.

I think that's probably why he plays a well and that scene is so sinister in the sense of in the rest of the show, because obviously you've got Bob Evans doing his thing and even Risbee in that scene is pretty dialed out. He's not giving it the big, the big one. He said, he said, I'm all going to quiet. Yeah, I'm all going to quiet.

Okay, sinister. It is. And he's put on the back foot, right? Like Joe Colombo, he's like, I think I'm like, you've got a staying line a bit here.

Like, you've kind of overstepped the mark, like, you're doing things in a new way and that's not how things are done around these parts. That's that. Yeah. So the next, the next one we get is back to Vegas, baby, and it's showtime.

It's Razzle Dazzle. They're going to see Vic the Moan. And that's when we get that moment of Mario, like trying to tuck into a cake and it's, I guess, our is sticking by his words that he said to Eric Appuso that he's not going to let him kind of gorge himself and he's like, no, that cake's coming away from you. But again, we like, I guess it's the first time as well that Mario and Francis get to see the kind of real world implications of how much like people want this film stopped, right?

Because that guy interrupts the show to be like, hey, Vic, I heard you're going to be playing Johnny Fontaine in the godfather. And he kind of like, he knows the score. He knows somebody has sent this guy, like, shit, it's a brick on stage, right? And he's like, oh, no, no, they were interested for me for the part, but I think I'm going to pass.

No, I would never, I would never lend my name to something with such an extreme bias. Yes. And a couple of poosos and ready, obviously, we guys go now. Doesn't he even lay a boot into Mario?

No, just no, no, a couple of people lay a boot into Poo, but he's not one of them, is he? He lays off Poo's or everyone else has a car, but he doesn't. I think at least like three people in this episode call Mario Poo's a traitor. They do.

Every time anyone else apart from the gang mentioned Poo's, it's the call of a traitor. The, yeah, there's three times. He's literally called a traitor. Yeah, they realize it's a message from Frank Sinatra and get Francis like defeated and kind of, it looks like drunk as well, right?

And he's like, so this film is going to get made. And there's a line in that with the, I guess, sort of the sort of thing like Sinatra is this force to be reckoned with when Francis says to a ready, he says, what just happened? But he says Sinatra happens. Yeah.

Sinatra happened. I like it though. I like it. This is like, yeah, I've been bored of it.

That's it. This is like the kind of entertainment I like. Do you know, I don't know. I've, uh, do you know what I mean?

Like, I've got kind of people like shows have been catered to them and it's like, whether it's, I don't know, I'm trying to think like in regards to like fun, fun content has been created for people. Do you know what I mean? Like some people like lap at the tank of like love Island and stuff like that. And that's that's made for a certain type of person.

It's like, this show very much feels like, and it's just like, ah, this is like purpose built, like not just because of the podcast I'm doing, but just because of my general interests in films is like, ah, this is kind of made for me. It's like something I'm really interested in, like, it's like, 100%. And like, it also, I like the fact that it does do that. And it is for people who like film and stuff, but it isn't, it's not pretentious at all.

It knows, it knows, it's fun. Like, I can't go back to it. We're waiting for, you know, we're waiting for Brando. We're waiting for and Sinatra to adopt the Sinatra.

But I like that. It's not trying to be this high arm exploration of the movie industry that is fucking fun. Julia, that's why I'm on board. We're waiting for moments where they're on set, right?

And it's like, they're doing scenes from the Godfather. And we're seeing the kind of 360 with his reactions to like a golden moment being captured or the first time we see Brando as the dawn or, you know what I mean? Like, the moment, yeah, the moment that the the Salatsou McCloskey like shoot out goes down and like, like, the reaction to that from like the studio and stuff like that. Like, you're kind of waiting for these big beats.

Well, it's, yeah, there's a bit in this, this, this scene here with the show when they find out that they can't, you know, that he's knocking up that. I think he's not going to play, sorry, to work with the play Fontaine. And then Francis is very down. And he says this, this one was a cancer.

It's not going to happen. And then, and then, really gives the speech. And it's a great, but it perfectly encapsulates what kind of show it is because you have that big moment of like, we're going to do this with a team and then they hug it out. And Pooso turns out, there's like, in the background with his glass of wine, there's a whole on in on this and it's kind of like, in Catholic, what the whole show is, it's still in these beats that we, it's just it's a good laugh and it's fun.

Enjoyable. I think that's what you want for the show, right? And then, like, on that kind of, yeah, that, that, be, no, that it's left on. She kind of going, Ruddy's got an intensity to him, right?

Because he's like, you keep this in budget, if you do this, is like, oh, fucking like, you want to be on fucking do it for you. And it's like, I think what this shows me literally says, I will die for you. Yeah. Yeah.

I like, I like what they do is there's like these little quick kind of set up and pay ups because there's like a couple of things later that's paid off really well, like where it's kind of like, oh, it's like, it's laying the breadcrumbs for what like needs to happen next, right? Because brother, big old B and it's funny or something that he really wants. But before we get to that, we get the moment of better meeting Francois at the Chateau because Francois beckoned her, I guess, to find out what is how hiding. And again, with this is that scene I mentioned earlier, where it's like another scene where we get to learn a bit more about Francois and kind of like what her who she is and kind of like the kind of hard-ass that she is, right?

Have you used on the Irish as well? Yeah. Yeah. It's again, it's a good scene between the two female characters because it's nice to see them interplay together.

I'm not 100% sold on the Francois character. I can't pinpoint why. I don't know. I don't think it's, I'm not sure if it's the poor form.

I don't know. But like I said, I'm only two episodes in, but I do think there's going to be more to that, whether it's more, I don't know. But I was the massive fan of this scene. I don't know.